Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

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Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Lodewijk
Hi,

just a few clarifications:

I totally agree with Naoko of course. However, for me the main goal is not
even just the photos itself, but the reach it gives us to involve more
people. If I understand the statistics correctly; up to date, we have been
able to involve roughly 1000 people throughout Europe in this contest who
never before uploaded/edited anything.

Involving new people was also the reason to set WLM up as a contest - that
assists at least in Europe very well in attracting attention of people who
normally do not edit Wikipedia, and persuade them to participate. However,
in the end they often keep participating because it is fun and because they
like it that their images appear on Wikipedia.

@Yaroslav: the main reason to focus on Europe this year was the large
concentration, intergovernmental support (European Commission & Council of
Europe) and lack of resources (mainly man power). If there are next year
enough people to carry on the idea, I'm sure we can include more countries,
*if* the concept works for them.

Then lists etc are a very practical precondition - not a fundamental one. If
we can find other ways to make it work, that is find of course. Also, if
countries rather run a project on different topics (volunteer involvement is
important, otherwise it won't work) they should definitely do that (I heard
suggestions for Wiki Loves Wildlife, Wiki Loves Rivers and many others!).

Finally a note about chapters. Yes, having a chapter is very helpful -
usually it is a group of organized volunteers who has existing experience
with media and volunteer coordination (because some coordination is
necessary) and they have access to some kind of budgeting / bank accounts.
But also this is very practical - this year four countries without any
chapter participated: Andorra (with the help of Amical), Belgium &
Luxembourg (with a lot of dedicated volunteers, mostly in Belgium) and
Romania (with the help of a local pro-linux association and local
volunteers). So there is definitely no rule against chapters without a
chapter to participate, but it does require a steeper learning curve, and
some extra dedication.

You can find much of the thinking behind this concept in our post-mortem of
2010 and the notes on the Berlin meeting last May with many participating
countries; all available on Commons. Of course I invite all comments
regarding improvements for next years in our post-mortem after September.

Best regards,
Lodewijk

Am 12. September 2011 07:49 schrieb Yaroslav M. Blanter <[hidden email]>:

> On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 10:51:33 +0900, KIZU Naoko <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Off topic alert:
> >
> > I haven't given a closer look to your main topic, Milos, so I cannot
> > give a responsible statement in any way. But your reference to Wiki
> > Loves Monuments, while I agree it's heavily Europe-focused, I strongly
> > disagree with you on its decadency, as an (retired) aesthetic. While
> > the determination what artworks are heavily depends on the community
> > to appreciate, so partly I understand your concern, if WLM is carried
> > on only by European chapter people, it can hardly of NPOV at some
> > future moment, but artworks belong to the critical part of "the sum of
> > human knowledge" along with the information who created them and then
> > have appreciated or rejected them.
> >
>
> Only countries which have lists of monuments compiled by the government
> and having the status of the law are eligible for WLM. This is in some
> sense POV but no more POV than say writing articles of members of
> parliament who were elected by direct vote. If Japan has such a list (I
> hope it does) next year it would be eligible to participate. My
> understanding is that somehow the organizers did not expect such interest
> and did not try to contact chapters outside Europe. Presumably next year
> they will do. On the other hand, by the next year some of the European
> countries may exhaust their monuments (in the sense that the most of the
> pictures will be taken and the articles written or judged to be impossible
> to write). Thus, NPOV does not seem to be a problem to me.
>
> I do see two other problems with WLM, which are (i) competition format,
> which implicitly stimulates certain strategies we normally do not want to
> stimulate; (ii) involvement of the chapters as a precondition - some
> countries do not have chapters, some chapters showed no interest, some were
> unable to organize anything in the end. But I am not sure such discussion
> belongs to this thread.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
>
>
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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Yaroslav M. Blanter
> @Yaroslav: the main reason to focus on Europe this year was the large
> concentration, intergovernmental support (European Commission & Council
of
> Europe) and lack of resources (mainly man power). If there are next year
> enough people to carry on the idea, I'm sure we can include more
countries,
> *if* the concept works for them.
>
<...>

> Finally a note about chapters. Yes, having a chapter is very helpful -
> usually it is a group of organized volunteers who has existing
experience
> with media and volunteer coordination (because some coordination is
> necessary) and they have access to some kind of budgeting / bank
accounts.
> But also this is very practical - this year four countries without any
> chapter participated: Andorra (with the help of Amical), Belgium &
> Luxembourg (with a lot of dedicated volunteers, mostly in Belgium) and
> Romania (with the help of a local pro-linux association and local
> volunteers). So there is definitely no rule against chapters without a
> chapter to participate, but it does require a steeper learning curve,
and
> some extra dedication.
>

Well, as one example, we had some private correspondence about involvement
of Russia: The chapter failed to organize anything, mostly because they
failed to realize that the database they were pointed out to is workable,
they did not want or dis not manage to contact other people who understand
the subject, and there was no way for any other group of people to organize
the contest. As the result, I just had to fill up the (previously empty)
category "WLM 2011 in Russia" myself single-handedly, not obviously
expecting any credit for this, but just to avoid creating an impression
that there are no monuments in Russia.

Also, if there was no group let us give a random example - in Macedonia -
who wanted to organize the contest, still it would be a good idea to open a
category for WLM in Macedonia, just to get a chance to indeed involve new
people and to possibly get a number of good quality image previously
missing. Especially if people would know this in advance and could take
pictures for instance during the summer holidays.

Just to be understood correctly, I think WLM is in general a good idea,
and my criticism is not to undermine it is any way, but to possibly create
some input for the next time. (I am a WLM supporter and I uploaded so far I
believe about 1% of the total amount of images).

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Lodewijk
Am 12. September 2011 11:04 schrieb Yaroslav M. Blanter <[hidden email]>:

> > @Yaroslav: the main reason to focus on Europe this year was the large
> > concentration, intergovernmental support (European Commission & Council
> of
> > Europe) and lack of resources (mainly man power). If there are next year
> > enough people to carry on the idea, I'm sure we can include more
> countries,
> > *if* the concept works for them.
> >
> <...>
>
> > Finally a note about chapters. Yes, having a chapter is very helpful -
> > usually it is a group of organized volunteers who has existing
> experience
> > with media and volunteer coordination (because some coordination is
> > necessary) and they have access to some kind of budgeting / bank
> accounts.
> > But also this is very practical - this year four countries without any
> > chapter participated: Andorra (with the help of Amical), Belgium &
> > Luxembourg (with a lot of dedicated volunteers, mostly in Belgium) and
> > Romania (with the help of a local pro-linux association and local
> > volunteers). So there is definitely no rule against chapters without a
> > chapter to participate, but it does require a steeper learning curve,
> and
> > some extra dedication.
> >
>
> Well, as one example, we had some private correspondence about involvement
> of Russia: The chapter failed to organize anything, mostly because they
> failed to realize that the database they were pointed out to is workable,
> they did not want or dis not manage to contact other people who understand
> the subject, and there was no way for any other group of people to organize
> the contest. As the result, I just had to fill up the (previously empty)
> category "WLM 2011 in Russia" myself single-handedly, not obviously
> expecting any credit for this, but just to avoid creating an impression
> that there are no monuments in Russia.
>
> Also, if there was no group let us give a random example - in Macedonia -
> who wanted to organize the contest, still it would be a good idea to open a
> category for WLM in Macedonia, just to get a chance to indeed involve new
> people and to possibly get a number of good quality image previously
> missing. Especially if people would know this in advance and could take
> pictures for instance during the summer holidays.
>
> Just to be understood correctly, I think WLM is in general a good idea,
> and my criticism is not to undermine it is any way, but to possibly create
> some input for the next time. (I am a WLM supporter and I uploaded so far I
> believe about 1% of the total amount of images).
>
>
Thanks for the clarification - I understand better what you mean now. We
indeed chose explicitely only to organize WLM in countries where there could
be an effort to make the necessary preperations (preparing monument lists
that are useful for non-Wikipedians, having a national jury and awards to
attract attention of newbees etc). So it was indeed necessary to have an
organizing team locally to organize Wiki Loves Monuments. This because
otherwise the images would indeed end up on Commons, but most likely unused,
because the monument is not clearly identified etc.

Anyway, lets have this discussion more in depth later on, after we can see
some more clearly the final results of the 2011 edition in all countries.

Best regards,

Lodewijk
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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Yaroslav M. Blanter
> Thanks for the clarification - I understand better what you mean now. We
> indeed chose explicitely only to organize WLM in countries where there
> could
> be an effort to make the necessary preperations (preparing monument
lists
> that are useful for non-Wikipedians, having a national jury and awards
to
> attract attention of newbees etc). So it was indeed necessary to have an
> organizing team locally to organize Wiki Loves Monuments. This because
> otherwise the images would indeed end up on Commons, but most likely
> unused,
> because the monument is not clearly identified etc.
>
> Anyway, lets have this discussion more in depth later on, after we can
see
> some more clearly the final results of the 2011 edition in all
countries.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lodewijk

Yes, I see the motivation, and I also agree that it would be better to
discuss it in October in an appropriate place.

Just may be to note that every single picture I uploaded for Russia has a
monument ID and will be used in at least one article in English Wikipedia
(though in some case I would need to create these articles myself). It is
of course easy to do when there are only 30 images, and I see how much
effort is now to take care of all pictures of RM in the Netherlands.

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Milos Rancic-2
In reply to this post by Yaroslav M. Blanter
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:04, Yaroslav M. Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Also, if there was no group let us give a random example - in Macedonia -
> who wanted to organize the contest, still it would be a good idea to open a
> category for WLM in Macedonia, just to get a chance to indeed involve new
> people and to possibly get a number of good quality image previously
> missing. Especially if people would know this in advance and could take
> pictures for instance during the summer holidays.

Eh, wrong example. There is Wikimedia Macedonia and they really hate
monuments because every local tycoon builds monuments in Macedonia,
presently.

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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Tomasz W. Kozłowski
On 12.09.2011 19:05, Milos Rancic wrote:

> Eh, wrong example. There is Wikimedia Macedonia and they really hate
> monuments because every local tycoon builds monuments in Macedonia,
> presently.

What was that supposed to mean? Either I don't get the joke or this
isn't really a joke, is it?

--
Tomasz Kozłowski | [[user:odder]]


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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Tomasz Ganicz
W dniu 12 września 2011 19:30 użytkownik Tomasz Kozłowski
<[hidden email]> napisał:
> On 12.09.2011 19:05, Milos Rancic wrote:
>
>> Eh, wrong example. There is Wikimedia Macedonia and they really hate
>> monuments because every local tycoon builds monuments in Macedonia,
>> presently.
>
> What was that supposed to mean? Either I don't get the joke or this
> isn't really a joke, is it?
>

Maybe it is just missunderstanding of word "monument"? In "Wiki Loves
Monuments" it does not mean a memorial statue of the person, but an
"unmovable pice of human heritage" such as historical buildings, old
towns, old cementaries, etc. So - a recently built memoral of recent
political or social activities rather do not fulfill the definition.
In order to avoid this missunderstanding we called our (Polish) part
of "Wiki Loves Monuments" -"Wiki Lubi Zabytki". Maybe in Macedonian
there is similar word to Polish "zabytek" ?


--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Milos Rancic-2
2011/9/12 Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]>:

> W dniu 12 września 2011 19:30 użytkownik Tomasz Kozłowski
> <[hidden email]> napisał:
>> On 12.09.2011 19:05, Milos Rancic wrote:
>>
>>> Eh, wrong example. There is Wikimedia Macedonia and they really hate
>>> monuments because every local tycoon builds monuments in Macedonia,
>>> presently.
>>
>> What was that supposed to mean? Either I don't get the joke or this
>> isn't really a joke, is it?
>>
>
> Maybe it is just missunderstanding of word "monument"? In "Wiki Loves
> Monuments" it does not mean a memorial statue of the person, but an
> "unmovable pice of human heritage" such as historical buildings, old
> towns, old cementaries, etc. So - a recently built memoral of recent
> political or social activities rather do not fulfill the definition.
> In order to avoid this missunderstanding we called our (Polish) part
> of "Wiki Loves Monuments" -"Wiki Lubi Zabytki". Maybe in Macedonian
> there is similar word to Polish "zabytek" ?

Not expert in Macedonian, but I think that you are probably right, as
it seems that nouns are the same in Serbian: "spomenik" is both
particular ("memorial statue") and general word (Belgrade Castle is
also "spomenik"). There is a word "monument", but that one means
something of really big importance (Egyptian pyramids are "monument";
while even Belgrade Castle isn't usually named with that word;
Wikipedia could be called "monument", as well) or for something very
old, usually connected with civilization which doesn't exist anymore
(obelisks could be called "monument").

And, yes, according to Macedonians which I know (including
Wikimedians), there is ongoing "monument/statue rush" in Macedonia.
It's a kind of subcultural kitch movement among richer Macedonians. At
lesser level, it could be seen in the rest of Balkans, as well.

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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

KIZU Naoko
In reply to this post by Yaroslav M. Blanter
Hello there,

Japan has a such (thanks Yaroslave for your concern) and iirc Taiwan
has too. Perhaps other countries.

If people are ambition enough to spread coordination efforts to the
large international orgs, I'd point out not only UNESCO but also
International Society of Aesthetics would be a good candidate to
contact. In particular where the government doesn't provide such a
list. ISA itself won't be so excited but you could ask them to have
you contact to the local appropriate associations which are keen and
open to collaborate with guys coming outsides from adacemia.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> @Yaroslav: the main reason to focus on Europe this year was the large
>> concentration, intergovernmental support (European Commission & Council
> of
>> Europe) and lack of resources (mainly man power). If there are next year
>> enough people to carry on the idea, I'm sure we can include more
> countries,
>> *if* the concept works for them.
>>
> <...>
>
>> Finally a note about chapters. Yes, having a chapter is very helpful -
>> usually it is a group of organized volunteers who has existing
> experience
>> with media and volunteer coordination (because some coordination is
>> necessary) and they have access to some kind of budgeting / bank
> accounts.
>> But also this is very practical - this year four countries without any
>> chapter participated: Andorra (with the help of Amical), Belgium &
>> Luxembourg (with a lot of dedicated volunteers, mostly in Belgium) and
>> Romania (with the help of a local pro-linux association and local
>> volunteers). So there is definitely no rule against chapters without a
>> chapter to participate, but it does require a steeper learning curve,
> and
>> some extra dedication.
>>
>
> Well, as one example, we had some private correspondence about involvement
> of Russia: The chapter failed to organize anything, mostly because they
> failed to realize that the database they were pointed out to is workable,
> they did not want or dis not manage to contact other people who understand
> the subject, and there was no way for any other group of people to organize
> the contest. As the result, I just had to fill up the (previously empty)
> category "WLM 2011 in Russia" myself single-handedly, not obviously
> expecting any credit for this, but just to avoid creating an impression
> that there are no monuments in Russia.
>
> Also, if there was no group let us give a random example - in Macedonia -
> who wanted to organize the contest, still it would be a good idea to open a
> category for WLM in Macedonia, just to get a chance to indeed involve new
> people and to possibly get a number of good quality image previously
> missing. Especially if people would know this in advance and could take
> pictures for instance during the summer holidays.
>
> Just to be understood correctly, I think WLM is in general a good idea,
> and my criticism is not to undermine it is any way, but to possibly create
> some input for the next time. (I am a WLM supporter and I uploaded so far I
> believe about 1% of the total amount of images).
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
KIZU Naoko / 木津尚子
member of Wikimedians in Kansai  / 関西ウィキメディアユーザ会 http://kansai.wikimedia.jp

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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Strainu
Hi Naoko,

Thanks for your pointers. What I'm seeing this year is that in order
to go global, we'll probably need around 10 people to coordinate the
event (I'm thinking that this year there were only 2 people involved
in all the steps and a few more that helped in different areas).

This means that it's not too early to start talking about WLM2012, but
perhaps a better place for this is the WikiLovesMonuments lists. We
would like to see you participate in discussions there :)

Thanks,
Strainu

2011/9/13 KIZU Naoko <[hidden email]>:

> Hello there,
>
> Japan has a such (thanks Yaroslave for your concern) and iirc Taiwan
> has too. Perhaps other countries.
>
> If people are ambition enough to spread coordination efforts to the
> large international orgs, I'd point out not only UNESCO but also
> International Society of Aesthetics would be a good candidate to
> contact. In particular where the government doesn't provide such a
> list. ISA itself won't be so excited but you could ask them to have
> you contact to the local appropriate associations which are keen and
> open to collaborate with guys coming outsides from adacemia.
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> @Yaroslav: the main reason to focus on Europe this year was the large
>>> concentration, intergovernmental support (European Commission & Council
>> of
>>> Europe) and lack of resources (mainly man power). If there are next year
>>> enough people to carry on the idea, I'm sure we can include more
>> countries,
>>> *if* the concept works for them.
>>>
>> <...>
>>
>>> Finally a note about chapters. Yes, having a chapter is very helpful -
>>> usually it is a group of organized volunteers who has existing
>> experience
>>> with media and volunteer coordination (because some coordination is
>>> necessary) and they have access to some kind of budgeting / bank
>> accounts.
>>> But also this is very practical - this year four countries without any
>>> chapter participated: Andorra (with the help of Amical), Belgium &
>>> Luxembourg (with a lot of dedicated volunteers, mostly in Belgium) and
>>> Romania (with the help of a local pro-linux association and local
>>> volunteers). So there is definitely no rule against chapters without a
>>> chapter to participate, but it does require a steeper learning curve,
>> and
>>> some extra dedication.
>>>
>>
>> Well, as one example, we had some private correspondence about involvement
>> of Russia: The chapter failed to organize anything, mostly because they
>> failed to realize that the database they were pointed out to is workable,
>> they did not want or dis not manage to contact other people who understand
>> the subject, and there was no way for any other group of people to organize
>> the contest. As the result, I just had to fill up the (previously empty)
>> category "WLM 2011 in Russia" myself single-handedly, not obviously
>> expecting any credit for this, but just to avoid creating an impression
>> that there are no monuments in Russia.
>>
>> Also, if there was no group let us give a random example - in Macedonia -
>> who wanted to organize the contest, still it would be a good idea to open a
>> category for WLM in Macedonia, just to get a chance to indeed involve new
>> people and to possibly get a number of good quality image previously
>> missing. Especially if people would know this in advance and could take
>> pictures for instance during the summer holidays.
>>
>> Just to be understood correctly, I think WLM is in general a good idea,
>> and my criticism is not to undermine it is any way, but to possibly create
>> some input for the next time. (I am a WLM supporter and I uploaded so far I
>> believe about 1% of the total amount of images).
>>
>> Cheers
>> Yaroslav
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> KIZU Naoko / 木津尚子
> member of Wikimedians in Kansai  / 関西ウィキメディアユーザ会 http://kansai.wikimedia.jp
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

KIZU Naoko
In reply to this post by Lodewijk
Agreed with Lodewijk, and thanks for your clarification

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> just a few clarifications:
>
> I totally agree with Naoko of course. However, for me the main goal is not
> even just the photos itself, but the reach it gives us to involve more
> people. If I understand the statistics correctly; up to date, we have been
> able to involve roughly 1000 people throughout Europe in this contest who
> never before uploaded/edited anything.

Thank you for raising that. I then implied, but did not mention
explicitly, avoiding for scholastic redundancy (or decadence?).
Picking up monuments for reach people out is a good idea corresponding
with the main reason d'etre of so-called monuments; monuments are
intersubjective, that is,  a monument is what we as a community think
as monument. I am not sure if any other themes had got the same level
success. A monument, or precisely a certain object which the local or
wider level of society is considered as a monument, is a focal point
of interest by definition.

It's a corollary of art concepts so ideally we could go to the art
works in general, but the copyright issues might then arise, so
beginning with monuments placed in an open are seems a modest but good
step. 'D

>
> Involving new people was also the reason to set WLM up as a contest - that
> assists at least in Europe very well in attracting attention of people who
> normally do not edit Wikipedia, and persuade them to participate. However,
> in the end they often keep participating because it is fun and because they
> like it that their images appear on Wikipedia.
>
> @Yaroslav: the main reason to focus on Europe this year was the large
> concentration, intergovernmental support (European Commission & Council of
> Europe) and lack of resources (mainly man power). If there are next year
> enough people to carry on the idea, I'm sure we can include more countries,
> *if* the concept works for them.
>
> Then lists etc are a very practical precondition - not a fundamental one. If
> we can find other ways to make it work, that is find of course. Also, if
> countries rather run a project on different topics (volunteer involvement is
> important, otherwise it won't work) they should definitely do that (I heard
> suggestions for Wiki Loves Wildlife, Wiki Loves Rivers and many others!).
>
> Finally a note about chapters. Yes, having a chapter is very helpful -
> usually it is a group of organized volunteers who has existing experience
> with media and volunteer coordination (because some coordination is
> necessary) and they have access to some kind of budgeting / bank accounts.
> But also this is very practical - this year four countries without any
> chapter participated: Andorra (with the help of Amical), Belgium &
> Luxembourg (with a lot of dedicated volunteers, mostly in Belgium) and
> Romania (with the help of a local pro-linux association and local
> volunteers). So there is definitely no rule against chapters without a
> chapter to participate, but it does require a steeper learning curve, and
> some extra dedication.
>
> You can find much of the thinking behind this concept in our post-mortem of
> 2010 and the notes on the Berlin meeting last May with many participating
> countries; all available on Commons. Of course I invite all comments
> regarding improvements for next years in our post-mortem after September.
>
> Best regards,
> Lodewijk
>
> Am 12. September 2011 07:49 schrieb Yaroslav M. Blanter <[hidden email]>:
>
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 10:51:33 +0900, KIZU Naoko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Off topic alert:
>> >
>> > I haven't given a closer look to your main topic, Milos, so I cannot
>> > give a responsible statement in any way. But your reference to Wiki
>> > Loves Monuments, while I agree it's heavily Europe-focused, I strongly
>> > disagree with you on its decadency, as an (retired) aesthetic. While
>> > the determination what artworks are heavily depends on the community
>> > to appreciate, so partly I understand your concern, if WLM is carried
>> > on only by European chapter people, it can hardly of NPOV at some
>> > future moment, but artworks belong to the critical part of "the sum of
>> > human knowledge" along with the information who created them and then
>> > have appreciated or rejected them.
>> >
>>
>> Only countries which have lists of monuments compiled by the government
>> and having the status of the law are eligible for WLM. This is in some
>> sense POV but no more POV than say writing articles of members of
>> parliament who were elected by direct vote. If Japan has such a list (I
>> hope it does) next year it would be eligible to participate. My
>> understanding is that somehow the organizers did not expect such interest
>> and did not try to contact chapters outside Europe. Presumably next year
>> they will do. On the other hand, by the next year some of the European
>> countries may exhaust their monuments (in the sense that the most of the
>> pictures will be taken and the articles written or judged to be impossible
>> to write). Thus, NPOV does not seem to be a problem to me.
>>
>> I do see two other problems with WLM, which are (i) competition format,
>> which implicitly stimulates certain strategies we normally do not want to
>> stimulate; (ii) involvement of the chapters as a precondition - some
>> countries do not have chapters, some chapters showed no interest, some were
>> unable to organize anything in the end. But I am not sure such discussion
>> belongs to this thread.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Yaroslav
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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--
KIZU Naoko / 木津尚子
member of Wikimedians in Kansai  / 関西ウィキメディアユーザ会 http://kansai.wikimedia.jp

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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Yaroslav M. Blanter
In reply to this post by Strainu
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:39:52 +0300, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Naoko,
>
> Thanks for your pointers. What I'm seeing this year is that in order
> to go global, we'll probably need around 10 people to coordinate the
> event (I'm thinking that this year there were only 2 people involved
> in all the steps and a few more that helped in different areas).
>
> This means that it's not too early to start talking about WLM2012, but
> perhaps a better place for this is the WikiLovesMonuments lists. We
> would like to see you participate in discussions there :)
>

Is there a public WLM list open for discussion?

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Béria Lima
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
_____
*Béria Lima*
<http://wikimedia.pt/>(351) 925 171 484

*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre
acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a
fazer <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Nossos_projetos>.*


On 13 September 2011 11:26, Yaroslav M. Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:39:52 +0300, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Naoko,
> >
> > Thanks for your pointers. What I'm seeing this year is that in order
> > to go global, we'll probably need around 10 people to coordinate the
> > event (I'm thinking that this year there were only 2 people involved
> > in all the steps and a few more that helped in different areas).
> >
> > This means that it's not too early to start talking about WLM2012, but
> > perhaps a better place for this is the WikiLovesMonuments lists. We
> > would like to see you participate in discussions there :)
> >
>
> Is there a public WLM list open for discussion?
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Lodewijk
Yes, there is (thanks Béria for linking) - however I think I speak for many
on that list that it would be appreciated if you can hold off the more
general 2012 discussions until October :) Just to state the obvious.

Best regards,

Lodewijk

Am 13. September 2011 12:28 schrieb Béria Lima <[hidden email]>:

> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> _____
> *Béria Lima*
> <http://wikimedia.pt/>(351) 925 171 484
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre
> acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a
> fazer <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Nossos_projetos>.*
>
>
> On 13 September 2011 11:26, Yaroslav M. Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:39:52 +0300, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hi Naoko,
> > >
> > > Thanks for your pointers. What I'm seeing this year is that in order
> > > to go global, we'll probably need around 10 people to coordinate the
> > > event (I'm thinking that this year there were only 2 people involved
> > > in all the steps and a few more that helped in different areas).
> > >
> > > This means that it's not too early to start talking about WLM2012, but
> > > perhaps a better place for this is the WikiLovesMonuments lists. We
> > > would like to see you participate in discussions there :)
> > >
> >
> > Is there a public WLM list open for discussion?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
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Re: Wiki Loves Monuments (Was: On curiosity, cats and scapegoats)

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
On 09/12/11 10:05 AM, Milos Rancic wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:04, Yaroslav M. Blanter<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Also, if there was no group let us give a random example - in Macedonia -
>> who wanted to organize the contest, still it would be a good idea to open a
>> category for WLM in Macedonia, just to get a chance to indeed involve new
>> people and to possibly get a number of good quality image previously
>> missing. Especially if people would know this in advance and could take
>> pictures for instance during the summer holidays.
> Eh, wrong example. There is Wikimedia Macedonia and they really hate
> monuments because every local tycoon builds monuments in Macedonia,
> presently.
>
>
This makes getting the pictures more important ... before their
successors tear them down.

Ray

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