[WikiEN-l] Admin burnout

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Re: Admin burnout

Ray Saintonge
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:

>On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:24:24 -0800, Ray Saintonge wrote:
>  
>
>>"Plain bad luck" in our context means that there may be instances where
>>we will be sued no matter what we do.
>>    
>>
>Sure.  But if we have done our best and show it, we'll be OK.
>
IOW getting sued is not the thing to worry about.  Getting sued
successfully is.

Ec


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Re: Admin burnout

geni
On 2/15/07, Ray Saintonge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:24:24 -0800, Ray Saintonge wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"Plain bad luck" in our context means that there may be instances where
> >>we will be sued no matter what we do.
> >>
> >>
> >Sure.  But if we have done our best and show it, we'll be OK.
> >
> IOW getting sued is not the thing to worry about.  Getting sued
> successfully is.
>
> Ec
>

Under US law the winner may still have costs so to an extent both need
to be worried about.

--
geni

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Re: Admin burnout

Ray Saintonge
geni wrote:

>On 2/15/07, Ray Saintonge <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:24:24 -0800, Ray Saintonge wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>>"Plain bad luck" in our context means that there may be instances where
>>>>we will be sued no matter what we do.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Sure.  But if we have done our best and show it, we'll be OK.
>>>      
>>>
>>IOW getting sued is not the thing to worry about.  Getting sued
>>successfully is.
>>    
>>
>Under US law the winner may still have costs so to an extent both need
>to be worried about.
>
That's all possible.  But at some point one has to stop backpeddling out
of fear of the cost of being right.  I readily recognize that some
people are so paralyzed by the thought of any costs associated with
being right that they become a part of the problem.

Ec


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Re: Admin burnout

Marc Riddell
In reply to this post by William Pietri
on 2/15/07 4:16 AM, William Pietri at [hidden email] wrote:

> Some of my work involves getting software development teams to change
> the way they do things. One of the things I've noticed over the years is
> that people who are stressed, frustrated, or overworked are averse to
> change. It can lead to a downward spiral, where nobody has the time to
> improve things so they have more time.

Persons who are stressed are preoccupied with the effects that stress is
having on them, not the source. They are in pain. That¹s why it is important
to remove them from the source. You are expecting a person to listen to you
suggesting alternative ways of doing something while they are still occupied
with doing what they know ­ it is at least familiar.

Imagine a person driving a car at 70 miles an hour over a road that is very
difficult to navigate, but is familiar to them. You know a different, and
better, route. You want to teach them about that route, but for them to
listen to you they are going to have to take their hands off the steering
wheel while still in motion. They¹ve got to pull over to the side of the
road and stop the car. Now they will be in a more receptive frame to listen
to alternatives.

Marc Riddell


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Re: Admin burnout

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by William Pietri
William Pietri wrote:

>Ray Saintonge wrote:
>  
>
>>What you describe seems like a sign of frustration and siege mentality.  
>>[...]
>>Every admin should severely limit the amount of time he spends on admin
>>duties.  Spending a greater proportion of time on what really matters
>>helps maintain a vision of what this is all about.
>>    
>>
>Some of my work involves getting software development teams to change
>the way they do things. One of the things I've noticed over the years is
>that people who are stressed, frustrated, or overworked are averse to
>change. It can lead to a downward spiral, where nobody has the time to
>improve things so they have more time.
>
>Could that be a problem in this discussion?
>
>I have a hard time telling how stressed or burnt out the average admin
>is, so this is an actual question, not a rhetorical one.
>
These are good points.  It seems too that these stress factors also
extend to preventing any change that could relieve that stress.  It's a
bit like having inward opening fire-escape doors that can't be opened
because the crowd is pushing so tightly against them.

Your question is a valid one.  How would you suggest that we go about
testing that hypothesis.

Ec


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Re: Admin burnout (deputy admins)

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
Thomas Dalton wrote:

>>Nieve?  Obsolete Scottish dialect for clenched fist?  Spanish for snow?
>>    
>>
>In what way does a sarcastic comment about my spelling make a useful
>contribution to this conversation? It was obvious what I meant.
>Language exists to transfer meaning from one person to another, as
>long as that aim is achieved does the spelling really make any
>difference?
>
It was perfectly obvious that no rational person knew what the fuck you
meant with that collection of letters.  That's why I checked the
dictionary.  Language does indeed serve to transfer meaning from one
person to another.  In this case the aim was not achieved.

Some misspellings are obvious, some are completely misleading, and
others are meaningless nonsense.  Meaningless nonsense may be less
drastic than misleading people, but in either case it is not the
responsibility of the reader to divine your intent.

I can and have frequently made allowances for those with dyslexia or for
whom English is not their native language, and would for other
understandable dysfunctionalities in the use of language.  Perhaps, as
subsequent messages have suggested, you did mean "naïve".  Recognizing
that would be more appropriate than trying to justify a misspelling.

Ec


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Re: Admin burnout

William Pietri
In reply to this post by Ray Saintonge
Ray Saintonge wrote:

>> One of the things I've noticed over the years is
>> that people who are stressed, frustrated, or overworked are averse to
>> change. It can lead to a downward spiral, where nobody has the time to
>> improve things so they have more time.
>>
>> Could that be a problem in this discussion?
>>
>> I have a hard time telling how stressed or burnt out the average admin
>> is, so this is an actual question, not a rhetorical one.
>
> These are good points.  It seems too that these stress factors also
> extend to preventing any change that could relieve that stress.  It's a
> bit like having inward opening fire-escape doors that can't be opened
> because the crowd is pushing so tightly against them.
>
> Your question is a valid one.  How would you suggest that we go about
> testing that hypothesis.
>  

Hmm... Great question.

Almost all of the work I've done in this area is with groups small
enough where I can just go ask people to get a feel for what's going on.
That's not such a good option here.

The only starting point I can think of would be some sort of job
satisfaction survey for admins, with additional questions to see how
much time they're spending and on what. Has that been done recently? And
if not, would people find that useful?



William

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Re: Admin burnout (deputy admins)

Earle Martin
In reply to this post by Ray Saintonge
On 16/02/07, Ray Saintonge <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thomas Dalton wrote:
> >>Nieve?  Obsolete Scottish dialect for clenched fist?  Spanish for snow?
> >>
> >In what way does a sarcastic comment about my spelling make a useful
> >contribution to this conversation? It was obvious what I meant.
> >
> It was perfectly obvious that no rational person knew what the fuck you
> meant with that collection of letters.

I recognised it as "naive" instantly. I am sure that many others did.

> Recognizing that would be more appropriate than trying to justify a misspelling.

No. What is inappropriate is your grossly insulting and offensive
language as quoted above.

Moderators, please consider putting this person on moderation. I do
not see how posts such as the one quoted improve the level of
conversation in this forum.

--
Earle Martin
            http://downlode.org/
http://purl.org/net/earlemartin/

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Re: Admin burnout (deputy admins)

Steve Bennett-8
On 2/17/07, Earle Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Moderators, please consider putting this person on moderation. I do
> not see how posts such as the one quoted improve the level of
> conversation in this forum.

Yes, would you both please quit this bickering and discuss something
vaguely on topic?

Thanks,
Steve

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Re: Admin burnout (deputy admins)

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Earle Martin
On 17/02/07, Earle Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Moderators, please consider putting this person on moderation. I do
> not see how posts such as the one quoted improve the level of
> conversation in this forum.


It's definitely not our job to fix injured sensibilities. I strongly
suggest you both play nicer.


- d.

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Re: Admin burnout (deputy admins)

Earle Martin
On 18/02/07, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It's definitely not our job to fix injured sensibilities. I strongly
> suggest you both play nicer.

As you're the second person to use the phrase "you both" when replying
to me, I should point out that... oh, forget it.


--
Earle Martin
            http://downlode.org/
http://purl.org/net/earlemartin/

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Re: Admin burnout (deputy admins)

Steve Bennett-8
On 2/19/07, Earle Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> As you're the second person to use the phrase "you both" when replying
> to me, I should point out that... oh, forget it.

Heh, sorry, point taken. I meant Ray and Thomas. See what happens when
you stray into the crossfire?

Steve

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Re: Admin burnout (deputy admins)

David Gerard-2
On 19/02/07, Steve Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 2/19/07, Earle Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > As you're the second person to use the phrase "you both" when replying
> > to me, I should point out that... oh, forget it.

> Heh, sorry, point taken. I meant Ray and Thomas. See what happens when
> you stray into the crossfire?


Indeed. *ahem* ALLA YOUSE KIDS. QUIETEN DOWN. DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN
THERE! I DON'T CARE WHO STARTED IT!


- d.

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