[WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
11 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

Steve Bennett-8
Hi all,
  I just noticed this one. Whenever you have a date, like the 5th of
October, you're supposed to link it, so that the MediaWiki software
can reformat it according to the user's preferences: [[5 October]].

However, you're never supposed to link *anything* in section headings.

So is this page following the guidelines or breaking them?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car

Steve

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
Steve Bennett wrote:

> Hi all,
>   I just noticed this one. Whenever you have a date, like the 5th of
> October, you're supposed to link it, so that the MediaWiki software
> can reformat it according to the user's preferences: [[5 October]].
>
> However, you're never supposed to link *anything* in section headings.
>
> So is this page following the guidelines or breaking them?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car
>
It would be helpful if our "guidelines"/"policies" were set down in the
same manner as IETF RFCs are, with the same uses of SHOULD, SHOULD NOT,
MUST, MUST NOT, etc...

"never" overrides "always", so "never link anything in section titles in
articles" overrides "always link dates in articles".

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP


_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

signature.asc (554 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

Ray Saintonge
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:

>Steve Bennett wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi all,
>>  I just noticed this one. Whenever you have a date, like the 5th of
>>October, you're supposed to link it, so that the MediaWiki software
>>can reformat it according to the user's preferences: [[5 October]].
>>
>>However, you're never supposed to link *anything* in section headings.
>>
>>So is this page following the guidelines or breaking them?
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car
>>    
>>
>It would be helpful if our "guidelines"/"policies" were set down in the
>same manner as IETF RFCs are, with the same uses of SHOULD, SHOULD NOT,
>MUST, MUST NOT, etc...
>
>"never" overrides "always", so "never link anything in section titles in
>articles" overrides "always link dates in articles".
>
Just because you want to invent that kind of rule in your own little
imagination doesn't mean that it's going to apply to anybody else.  If
you don't want to link from section headings nobody is going to force
you to do it.  Please don't disrespect others by saying that they can't.

Ec


_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

MacGyverMagic/Mgm
Can't someone dig into the MediaWiki code and have full dates display
according to the preferences no matter what format they're in even without
them being linked? That would solve the whole thing.

Mgm


On 2/5/07, Ray Saintonge <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
>
> >Steve Bennett wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Hi all,
> >>  I just noticed this one. Whenever you have a date, like the 5th of
> >>October, you're supposed to link it, so that the MediaWiki software
> >>can reformat it according to the user's preferences: [[5 October]].
> >>
> >>However, you're never supposed to link *anything* in section headings.
> >>
> >>So is this page following the guidelines or breaking them?
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car
> >>
> >>
> >It would be helpful if our "guidelines"/"policies" were set down in the
> >same manner as IETF RFCs are, with the same uses of SHOULD, SHOULD NOT,
> >MUST, MUST NOT, etc...
> >
> >"never" overrides "always", so "never link anything in section titles in
> >articles" overrides "always link dates in articles".
> >
> Just because you want to invent that kind of rule in your own little
> imagination doesn't mean that it's going to apply to anybody else.  If
> you don't want to link from section headings nobody is going to force
> you to do it.  Please don't disrespect others by saying that they can't.
>
> Ec
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

Thomas Dalton
> Can't someone dig into the MediaWiki code and have full dates display
> according to the preferences no matter what format they're in even without
> them being linked? That would solve the whole thing.

I think it would slow things down too much, as the code would have to
read every page looking for dates, rather than just looking at links.

I did read something on this list a couple of weeks ago about a
possible new way of marking dates... I can't remember the details.

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
In reply to this post by Ray Saintonge
Ray Saintonge wrote:
> Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
>
>> Steve Bennett wrote:
>>  
<snip>
>>> However, you're never supposed to link *anything* in section headings.
>>>
<snip>
>> "never" overrides "always", so "never link anything in section titles in
>> articles" overrides "always link dates in articles".
>>
> Just because you want to invent that kind of rule in your own little
> imagination doesn't mean that it's going to apply to anybody else.  If
> you don't want to link from section headings nobody is going to force
> you to do it.  Please don't disrespect others by saying that they can't.
>

I didn't invent it, I'm just stating how it should be applied; secondly,
linking section headings is horrible from a usability perspective - just
imagine how it will look when you print it!

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP


_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

signature.asc (554 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

Cheney Shill
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
--- Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Can't someone dig into the MediaWiki code and have full
> dates display
> > according to the preferences no matter what format
> they're in even without
> > them being linked? That would solve the whole thing.
>
> I think it would slow things down too much, as the code
> would have to
> read every page looking for dates, rather than just
> looking at links.

I'd prefer speed and a focus on more important issues.  I
don't think I've ever pressed a date link while using
Wikipedia.  I guess I'm not part of the astrological
consensus.

Besides, in terms of guideline importance, they both seem
relatively insignificant.


~~Pro-Lick
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Halliburton_Shill 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pro-Lick 
http://www.wikiality.com/User:Pro-Lick (now a Wikia supported site)


--spam may follow--


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

Luna-4
In reply to this post by Steve Bennett-8
On 2/4/07, Steve Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>   I just noticed this one. Whenever you have a date, like the 5th of
> October, you're supposed to link it, so that the MediaWiki software
> can reformat it according to the user's preferences: [[5 October]].
>
> However, you're never supposed to link *anything* in section headings.
>
> So is this page following the guidelines or breaking them?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car


Doesn't seem like too big a deal, to me, either way. I think I'd personally
prefer to avoid linking dates in the headings, and just use whichever date
format is most appropriate to the article (much as we'd use UK-English in
UK-related articles), it doesn't seem like anything worth getting into a
scuffle over.

One idea, though, you may be able to avoid the issue entirely, if you use
the dictionary entry-style:

;[[July 8]], [[1949]]
*''Maximum length'' &mdash; 2.8&nbsp;[[metre|m]]
*''Maximum width'' &mdash; 1&nbsp;m
*''Maximum height'' &mdash; 2&nbsp;m
*''Maximum [[engine displacement]]'' &mdash; 150&nbsp;[[cubic
centimetre|cc]] ([[Four-stroke cycle|four-stroke]]), 100&nbsp;cc;
([[Two-stroke cycle|two-stroke]])

Just a thought. See if you like it -- helps clear out the TOC, if you start
doing these things in really long articles. Sometimes people like to have
the distinct sections, though.

-Luna
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by MacGyverMagic/Mgm
On 05/02/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Can't someone dig into the MediaWiki code and have full dates display
> according to the preferences no matter what format they're in even without
> them being linked? That would solve the whole thing.


This may be too susceptible to the AskFactMaster.compedia problem.


- d.

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

Andrew Gray
On 05/02/07, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 05/02/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Can't someone dig into the MediaWiki code and have full dates display
> > according to the preferences no matter what format they're in even without
> > them being linked? That would solve the whole thing.
>
> This may be too susceptible to the AskFactMaster.compedia problem.

Quite. Nothing worse than rewriting quotes, or the names of sources.

http://blog.anubite.co.uk/index.php/2006/12/23/dates/ seems to be a
promising solution - <date>text</date> tagging, and reformat anything
tagged as such, leave the rest alone.

--
- Andrew Gray
  [hidden email]

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

Stephen Bain
In reply to this post by Luna-4
On 2/6/07, Luna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> One idea, though, you may be able to avoid the issue entirely, if you use
> the dictionary entry-style:

That was a good suggestion, but when I tried it out it still looked a
little cluttered, so I put the information in a table instead. Check
it out now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car#History_of_regulations

As to the general principles in play, I'm very much in favour of
avoiding situations in which it is necessary to have dates in headings
at all. That way the problem just magically disappears.

--
Stephen Bain
[hidden email]

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l