[WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

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[WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

.-32
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care
more about abuse reports.

They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse
complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.

Their server IPs are:
encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226
pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227

A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
email addresses to report abuse to are now: [hidden email],
[hidden email], [hidden email]

If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.



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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Jeff Raymond
. wrote:

> A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
> traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
> email addresses to report abuse to are now: [hidden email],
> [hidden email], [hidden email]
>
> If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.

As someone who was an insider for a while, that won't happen.  They know
full well what they're doing, and they wouldn't move to a new host if it
wasn't going to serve their purposes.

-Jeff


--
Name: Jeff Raymond
E-mail: [hidden email]
WWW: http://www.internationalhouseofbacon.com
IM: badlydrawnjeff
Quote: "As the hobbits are going up Mount Doom, the
        Eye of Mordor is being drawn somewhere else."
        - Sen. Rick Santorum on the war in Iraq.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Jeremy Cushman-2
. wrote:
> A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
> traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
> email addresses to report abuse to are now: [hidden email],
> [hidden email], [hidden email]
>
> If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.

I still think that we should get as many people as possible to sent abuse
reports; it would be especially great if the people who were attacked sent
in the reports.  Even if it might not work, we can still try.
--Mets501


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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Stan Shebs-2
In reply to this post by .-32
. wrote:
> As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
> Wikipedians.
>  
Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's bedroom,
probably not coincidentally.  I don't see how any ISP would take any of
the random ravings seriously.

Also, it's useful as a motivator  for here - WP would look like that if
all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)

Stan


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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

· Firefoxman
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
blocked<http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT>at
my school, so I cannot check the site.

On 1/24/07, Stan Shebs <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> . wrote:
> > As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
> > Wikipedians.
> >
> Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's bedroom,
> probably not coincidentally.  I don't see how any ISP would take any of
> the random ravings seriously.
>
> Also, it's useful as a motivator  for here - WP would look like that if
> all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
>
> Stan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>



--
-Firefoxman
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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Jeremy Cushman-2
Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless and
Pornography
It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile
Wikipedians
--Mets501

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of . Firefoxman
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:31 AM
To: English Wikipedia
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making
attack articles on us

What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
blocked<http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadr
amatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT>at
my school, so I cannot check the site.

On 1/24/07, Stan Shebs <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> . wrote:
> > As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
> > Wikipedians.
> >
> Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's
> bedroom, probably not coincidentally.  I don't see how any ISP would
> take any of the random ravings seriously.
>
> Also, it's useful as a motivator  for here - WP would look like that
> if all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
>
> Stan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>



--
-Firefoxman
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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

· Firefoxman
Do they have any real content at all?

On 1/24/07, Mets501 <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless and
> Pornography
> It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile
> Wikipedians
> --Mets501
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of . Firefoxman
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:31 AM
> To: English Wikipedia
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making
> attack articles on us
>
> What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
> blocked<
> http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadr
> amatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT
> >at
> my school, so I cannot check the site.
>
> On 1/24/07, Stan Shebs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > . wrote:
> > > As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
> > > Wikipedians.
> > >
> > Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's
> > bedroom, probably not coincidentally.  I don't see how any ISP would
> > take any of the random ravings seriously.
> >
> > Also, it's useful as a motivator  for here - WP would look like that
> > if all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
> >
> > Stan
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -Firefoxman
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>



--
-Firefoxman
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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Keitei
In reply to this post by · Firefoxman
On Jan 24, 2007, at 11:31, · Firefoxman wrote:

> What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
> blocked<http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http:// 
> encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/
> Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT>at
> my school, so I cannot check the site.

Trying to be as NPOV as possible, Encyclopedia Dramatica is meant to  
be a humor site. It originated from LJ drama (which was a bit of a  
fiasco for those involved, if I remember correctly), and thus has  
always allowed and encouraged articles on livejournal users and  
internet personas. Wikipedians are fair game. Their humor style tends  
towards the "tasteless": shock images, profanity, and obscene mental  
images. Some people find this funny; I don't happen to, but it's  
their business. They do have "real" content, that is content on real  
world things, but most of their articles last I checked were internet  
related.

As for knocking them off their host, I don't think Wikipedia ever  
would be or should be involved in this. If different people want to  
initiate this, that's their business. Doesn't seem to be appropriate  
for a Wikipedia mailing list, but that's just my opinion.

--keitei
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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Jeff Raymond
In reply to this post by · Firefoxman

· Firefoxman wrote:

> Do they have any real content at all?
>
> On 1/24/07, Mets501 <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless
>> and
>> Pornography
>> It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile
>> Wikipedians
>> --Mets501

They handle web memes better than we do in terms of accuracy, maybe not as
much as taste.  Their "attacks" on Wikipedians constitute a minimal amount
of their content, albeit more than what was there when I was a
contributor.  Most of their content revolves around LiveJournal.

-Jeff

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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Will "Sceptre" Noble-2
Just my two cents as one of those Wikipedians that has been targeted.

The pages really aren't that nice. Over the past few months, the
simple factthat the page about me (and on nathanr, to an extent) is
there has almost
driven off the wiki several times, and in fact, it was the final reason
behind my departure.

Any reason to take ED down would be good, although it probably won't happen.

- Will (Sceptre)
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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

fredbaud
In reply to this post by · Firefoxman

>They handle web memes better than we do in terms of accuracy, maybe not as
>much as taste.  Their "attacks" on Wikipedians constitute a minimal amount
>of their content, albeit more than what was there when I was a
>contributor.  Most of their content revolves around LiveJournal.
>
>-Jeff

Through the MONGO arbitration case the arbitration committee has probably restricted activities related to dem attica as much as appropriate. Main thing, don't make links to them. Editors who are active on dam attic may edit Wikipedia, but are expected to wear their Wikipedia hat, not their Dramatic hat. Going further is probably inappropriate, even mean-sprited.

Fred



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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Andrew Gray
In reply to this post by Keitei
On 24/01/07, Keitei <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Jan 24, 2007, at 11:31, · Firefoxman wrote:
>
> > What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
> > blocked<http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://
> > encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/
> > Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT>at
> > my school, so I cannot check the site.
>
> Trying to be as NPOV as possible, Encyclopedia Dramatica is meant to
> be a humor site. It originated from LJ drama (which was a bit of a
> fiasco for those involved, if I remember correctly)

It originated from LJ drama and became ED after a very short stint on
enwp, about one day long :-)

> As for knocking them off their host, I don't think Wikipedia ever
> would be or should be involved in this. If different people want to
> initiate this, that's their business. Doesn't seem to be appropriate
> for a Wikipedia mailing list, but that's just my opinion.

Quite. If you want to lead a crusade to 'clean up' the internet,
please feel free, but don't do it here unless we're actively involved.
(The same applies to starting new search-engine projects, come to
think of it)

--
- Andrew Gray
  [hidden email]

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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

· Firefoxman
Wouldent they deserve their own article?

On 1/24/07, Andrew Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 24/01/07, Keitei <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 2007, at 11:31, · Firefoxman wrote:
> >
> > > What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
> > > blocked<http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://
> > > encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/
> > > Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT>at
> > > my school, so I cannot check the site.
> >
> > Trying to be as NPOV as possible, Encyclopedia Dramatica is meant to
> > be a humor site. It originated from LJ drama (which was a bit of a
> > fiasco for those involved, if I remember correctly)
>
> It originated from LJ drama and became ED after a very short stint on
> enwp, about one day long :-)
>
> > As for knocking them off their host, I don't think Wikipedia ever
> > would be or should be involved in this. If different people want to
> > initiate this, that's their business. Doesn't seem to be appropriate
> > for a Wikipedia mailing list, but that's just my opinion.
>
> Quite. If you want to lead a crusade to 'clean up' the internet,
> please feel free, but don't do it here unless we're actively involved.
> (The same applies to starting new search-engine projects, come to
> think of it)
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
>   [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>



--
-Firefoxman
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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Guy Chapman aka JzG
In reply to this post by fredbaud
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:51:05 +0000, "Fred Bauder"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>Through the MONGO arbitration case the arbitration committee has probably restricted activities related to dem attica as much as appropriate. Main thing, don't make links to them. Editors who are active on dam attic may edit Wikipedia, but are expected to wear their Wikipedia hat, not their Dramatic hat. Going further is probably inappropriate, even mean-sprited.

Some people who edit Wikipedia have taken a part in editing these
articles.  That is not good.  But a wise man said to me that if they
are jerks, they will be jerks on Wikipedia and then we can deal with
them.  This is sage advice.  I am watching.

Jeff gets some shit for having been involved with ED.  I say that Jeff
is emphatically not a jerk. He is not one of the ones on my watchlist.

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Parker Peters-2
In reply to this post by .-32
On 1/24/07, . <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
> Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care
> more about abuse reports.
>
> They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse
> complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.
>
> Their server IPs are:
> encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226
> pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227
>
> A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
> traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
> email addresses to report abuse to are now: [hidden email],
> [hidden email], [hidden email]
>
> If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.
>

Attempting to set up an organized attack, especially by filing what may
arguably false reports, isn't going to help anyone's cause.

In fact, it could leave Wikipedia open to some legal troubles.

Parker
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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Ron Ritzman
In reply to this post by .-32
On 1/24/07, . <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This means the
> email addresses to report abuse to are now: [hidden email],
> [hidden email], [hidden email]
>
> If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.

Here is a link to colo4dallas.com's AUP

http://colo4dallas.com/aup.asp

Which part of this is E.D. violating? ISP's don't terminate clients
for simply receiving a lot of conplaints.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Mark
In reply to this post by .-32
. wrote:

>As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
>Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care
>more about abuse reports.
>
>They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse
>complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.
>
>Their server IPs are:
>encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226
>pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227
>
>A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
>traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
>email addresses to report abuse to are now: [hidden email],
>[hidden email], [hidden email]
>
>If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.
>  
>
I definitely don't support this.  If they're doing something illegal
(libel, etc.), then legal action may be warranted, but trying to
strongarm an ISP into taking down a site isn't a good idea.

-Mark


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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from makingattack articles on

Tony Jacobs
In reply to this post by · Firefoxman
>Do they have any real content at all?
>

Of course they have "real content".  It's basically falls into 3 categories:

There's documentation of internet memes and inside jokes, which is often
accurate, and much more thorough than our documentation of the same, because
they have no WP:V or WP:NOR restrictions.  A lot of this content comes from
4chan and related sites.

Secondly, they've got a lot of satirical material relating to sexism,
racism, homophobia, and basic fear and intolerance against every demographic
group you care to name.  Some people think they're racist and hateful,
others recognize it as a caricature of intolerance, intended to be funny.

Third, they document Internet "drama", mercilessly poking fun at people
whose online activities they find to be ridiculous.  Most of their targets
are LiveJournal users, with some bloggers and podcasters, and they do seem
to have a special place in their hearts for Wikipedians.  It's a sort of
gonzo-journalism style documentation, because they're not above creating
drama and documenting it at the same time.

Personally, I think that if we calll them an "attack site" and make a big
deal out of their nonsense, that we're just creating more drama, and handing
them free content.  It seems to me that the reasonable reaction is to note
that what they do has nothing to do with writing an encyclopedia, and to
pretty much ignore them.

If you want to stop them making "attack articles" about Wikipedians, one way
is to refrain from generating drama.  There's also a drama-positive
situation existing where both wikis nurture misconceptions about the other.  
As someone who appreciates both wikis, I continue to explain to each that
the editors of the other are actually human beings, and not some kind of
monsters.  If they stop making fun of Wikipedians, it'll be because they
decide we're cool after all, not because we declare war on them and somehow
win.  Since I happen to think that Wikipedia is cool, I think this is an
attainable goal.


Tony/GTBacchus


>From: "· Firefoxman" <[hidden email]>
>
>Do they have any real content at all?
>
>On 1/24/07, Mets501 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless
>and
> > Pornography
> > It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile
> > Wikipedians
> > --Mets501
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of . Firefoxman
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:31 AM
> > To: English Wikipedia
> > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making
> > attack articles on us
> >
> > What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
> > blocked<
> > http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadr
> > amatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT
> > >at
> > my school, so I cannot check the site.
> >
> > On 1/24/07, Stan Shebs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > . wrote:
> > > > As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
> > > > Wikipedians.
> > > >
> > > Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's
> > > bedroom, probably not coincidentally.  I don't see how any ISP would
> > > take any of the random ravings seriously.
> > >
> > > Also, it's useful as a motivator  for here - WP would look like that
> > > if all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
> > >
> > > Stan
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -Firefoxman
> > _______________________________________________
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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Pilotguy
In reply to this post by Parker Peters-2
Yes, to echo Parker above, we don't need to get involved with this. Based on
this thread we all know how worthless ED is, and it's probably best to
ignore them and leave them alone rather than feed them and allow them to
continue to troll the internet.

On 1/24/07, Parker Peters <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 1/24/07, . <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
> > Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care
> > more about abuse reports.
> >
> > They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse
> > complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.
> >
> > Their server IPs are:
> > encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226
> > pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227
> >
> > A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
> > traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
> > email addresses to report abuse to are now: [hidden email],
> > [hidden email], [hidden email]
> >
> > If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.
> >
>
> Attempting to set up an organized attack, especially by filing what may
> arguably false reports, isn't going to help anyone's cause.
>
> In fact, it could leave Wikipedia open to some legal troubles.
>
> Parker
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Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

Luna-4
In reply to this post by .-32
I can't speak so well, for the legal side of things, but this whole "I don't
like them, so I'll send takedown notices" attitude bugs me, too. I'm
actually fairly surprised that the Wikipedia community, which day-in and
day-out is greatly concerned with getting these *same sorts of complaints*
from people who want to control our content through legal threats and
similar means, would quickly turn around and threaten or plan the same sort
of behavior against other websites.

At this point, I would strongly oppose attaching Wikipedia's name to any
action of this nature, except in the most dire circumstances. If this is
done, let it be done by individuals who represent themselves and their own
interests.

I don't like trolls. That's why I block them on the wiki. Past that, I'm
less concerned about whether it's the business of the Wikipedia community --
communal antagonism of this nature only encourages them, you know.

Just a few thoughts,
-Luna
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