[WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

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[WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Christopher Thieme
I love how the Main Page is listed as "Main page" on the left-hand-side
navigation bar.

Also, anyone who claims repairing the links to Main Page would be insane and
take years, could probably just send out a bot to do it in a matter of a few
days (at most).  It's such a specious b.s. claim, that whoever said it first
and those who perpetuate such b.s., in the words of Garfield, "should be
dragged out in the street and shot."

Regards,
Christopher D. Thieme
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Schuyler Thompson
Its more an issue of the external links


- [[User:Xxpor]]

On 1/13/07, Christopher Thieme <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I love how the Main Page is listed as "Main page" on the left-hand-side
> navigation bar.
>
> Also, anyone who claims repairing the links to Main Page would be insane
> and
> take years, could probably just send out a bot to do it in a matter of a
> few
> days (at most).  It's such a specious b.s. claim, that whoever said it
> first
> and those who perpetuate such b.s., in the words of Garfield, "should be
> dragged out in the street and shot."
>
> Regards,
> Christopher D. Thieme
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

PeruvianLlama

> Its more an issue of the external links
Just a thought on this, but assuming that the move were
community-approved then would it be possible to do a sort of
"hard-redirect" where http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page (or
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?Main_Page if you like) would
automatically shunt any incoming traffic to the new page? Isn't there
something in Apache, a 500-level code maybe that a server gives to
clients to indicate a permanent redirect so that the incoming link can
be updated? If this was the case, and since everyone agrees that moving
Main_Page is not an immediate concern but rather a long-term issue (or
not an issue at all), then Main_Page could exist for the next six months
or year as an un-editable "hard-redirect", to give the world's links
time to be updated. Then after that, once the epic novel "Main Page" has
been written and achieved verifiable notability, we can un-hard-link the
Main_Page article and editing could begin.

Is any of this plausible?

 - PeruvianLlama

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Ligulem
On 14.01.2007 05:54, PeruvianLlama wrote:
>> Its more an issue of the external links
> Just a thought on this, but assuming that the move were
> community-approved then would it be possible to do a sort of
> "hard-redirect" .... [snip]

It has already been noted that such a system seems already to be in
place and there is no need to redirect anything on-wiki. Last one was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AVillage_pump_%28proposals%29&diff=99604228&oldid=99592851

These links all work (also with on-wiki internal linking):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Main_page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Main_page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Main_Page

Pick the one you like. :-)

For comparison, the Swedes have the aliases:

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Huvudsida
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida

Their
http://sv.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Mainpage&action=edit 
is "Portal:Huvudsida" so they have "Portal" on the first tab on the top
of the page.








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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Luna-4
In reply to this post by PeruvianLlama
On 1/13/07, PeruvianLlama <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> > Its more an issue of the external links
> Just a thought on this, but assuming that the move were
> community-approved then would it be possible to do a sort of
> "hard-redirect" where http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page (or
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?Main_Page if you like) would
> automatically shunt any incoming traffic to the new page? Isn't there
> something in Apache, a 500-level code maybe that a server gives to
> clients to indicate a permanent redirect so that the incoming link can
> be updated? If this was the case, and since everyone agrees that moving
> Main_Page is not an immediate concern but rather a long-term issue (or
> not an issue at all), then Main_Page could exist for the next six months
> or year as an un-editable "hard-redirect", to give the world's links
> time to be updated. Then after that, once the epic novel "Main Page" has
> been written and achieved verifiable notability, we can un-hard-link the
> Main_Page article and editing could begin.



Right. But since we're obviously going to need such a redirect, what do we
gain from moving Main Page? It's a lot of work for...?

-Luna
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

MacGyverMagic/Mgm
On 1/14/07, Luna <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 1/13/07, PeruvianLlama <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Its more an issue of the external links
> > Just a thought on this, but assuming that the move were
> > community-approved then would it be possible to do a sort of
> > "hard-redirect" where http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page (or
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?Main_Page if you like) would
> > automatically shunt any incoming traffic to the new page? Isn't there
> > something in Apache, a 500-level code maybe that a server gives to
> > clients to indicate a permanent redirect so that the incoming link can
> > be updated? If this was the case, and since everyone agrees that moving
> > Main_Page is not an immediate concern but rather a long-term issue (or
> > not an issue at all), then Main_Page could exist for the next six months
> > or year as an un-editable "hard-redirect", to give the world's links
> > time to be updated. Then after that, once the epic novel "Main Page" has
> > been written and achieved verifiable notability, we can un-hard-link the
> > Main_Page article and editing could begin.
>
>
>
> Right. But since we're obviously going to need such a redirect, what do we
> gain from moving Main Page? It's a lot of work for...?
>
> -Luna


And it still doesn't open up the page for any potential films, books or
articles on anything else, because leaving a redirect is what we need to not
kill incoming links from outside of Wikipedia.
Mgm
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Andrew Gray
In reply to this post by Christopher Thieme
On 14/01/07, Christopher Thieme <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I love how the Main Page is listed as "Main page" on the left-hand-side
> navigation bar.
>
> Also, anyone who claims repairing the links to Main Page would be insane and
> take years, could probably just send out a bot to do it in a matter of a few
> days (at most).  It's such a specious b.s. claim, that whoever said it first
> and those who perpetuate such b.s., in the words of Garfield, "should be
> dragged out in the street and shot."

Sure, we can correct all the internal links in a snap, even just with
doing it by hand. Correcting all the internal links from elsewhere on
Foundation projects... maybe a day to hunt them all down.

But we can't do a damn thing about the millions of external links
inbound to our site. We can't do a thing about the thousands of
*printed* references to that URL. These are the ones we need to worry
about, not the internal ones...

--
- Andrew Gray
  [hidden email]

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

PeruvianLlama
In reply to this post by MacGyverMagic/Mgm
Luna wrote:
> Right. But since we're obviously going to need such a redirect, what do we
> gain from moving Main Page? It's a lot of work for...?
>  
The idea would be that such a redirect would be temporary. The problem
of having Main_Page in the namespace wouldn't be solved overnight, or
even in a matter of days. But at least it would be solved a year (or 6
months, or whatever) down the road. That's a long time, but like I said,
I haven't seen anyone claiming that this is really any kind of an
immediate worry. It's just a good idea for the sake of long-term
consistency.

If we wait until the movie/book/etc. called "Main Page" is made and
suddenly wants to be in that article page, then we no longer have the
luxury of doing things at a reasonable pace. Then it really will be a
big issue to update all of our internal links, and to hope that external
links update quickly enough. If we're proactive about this, we might be
saving ourselves a headache. At worst, like I said, we're at least being
consistent.


MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
> And it still doesn't open up the page for any potential films, books or
> articles on anything else, because leaving a redirect is what we need to not
> kill incoming links from outside of Wikipedia.
> Mgm
Not immediately no, but it opens up the possibility of doing so in the
future. After a year we can drop the redirect, since most/all of the
external links will have updated. Those that haven't, well, a broken
link or three isn't going to bring either Wikipedia or the internet at
large to its knees. The reason I posted this idea was because the main
three objections to moving appeared to be:
1) It will be too big a strain on the servers to move such a big page
2) It will be too much of a hassle to update internal links
3) It will be too much of a hassle to update external links

I think that if it came to it, we could enlist the help of devs or other
technical wizardry to eliminate the hurdles of objection #1. Objection
#2 has already been rebutted. I was taking aim at objection #3.

There isn't any wildly important reason to move Main_Page somewhere
else, and I say again, it certainly isn't a terribly time-sensitive
issue. But on the other hand, there don't seem to be any wildly
important reasons to _not_ move Main_Page, other than things being too
much of a hassle.

Cheers,
 - PeruvianLlama

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Royalguard11
In reply to this post by Christopher Thieme
On 1/13/07, Christopher Thieme <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I love how the Main Page is listed as "Main page" on the left-hand-side
> navigation bar.
>
> Also, anyone who claims repairing the links to Main Page would be insane and
> take years, could probably just send out a bot to do it in a matter of a few
> days (at most).  It's such a specious b.s. claim, that whoever said it first
> and those who perpetuate such b.s., in the words of Garfield, "should be
> dragged out in the street and shot."
>
> Regards,
> Christopher D. Thieme

I don't think the process wonks are getting the idea. Moving the page
for the sake of moving it is not a good reason. Especially some of the
semi-stupid proposals, like "putting" the main page at
http://en.wikipedia.org (which Brion said is not possible). In this
case, IAR and let it stay. Trying to enforse the "rules" on the main
page is nothing short of distruption to make a point (WP:POINT).

--
-Royalguard11

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

MacGyverMagic/Mgm
In reply to this post by PeruvianLlama
It might be just me, but I don't think a movie or book titled "Main Page"
would actually get sold to a editor or studio representative. Titles are key
to drawing in an audience, and when someone came to me with that as a title,
I'd ask them to change it.

Mgm


On 1/14/07, PeruvianLlama <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Luna wrote:
> > Right. But since we're obviously going to need such a redirect, what do
> we
> > gain from moving Main Page? It's a lot of work for...?
> >
> The idea would be that such a redirect would be temporary. The problem
> of having Main_Page in the namespace wouldn't be solved overnight, or
> even in a matter of days. But at least it would be solved a year (or 6
> months, or whatever) down the road. That's a long time, but like I said,
> I haven't seen anyone claiming that this is really any kind of an
> immediate worry. It's just a good idea for the sake of long-term
> consistency.
>
> If we wait until the movie/book/etc. called "Main Page" is made and
> suddenly wants to be in that article page, then we no longer have the
> luxury of doing things at a reasonable pace. Then it really will be a
> big issue to update all of our internal links, and to hope that external
> links update quickly enough. If we're proactive about this, we might be
> saving ourselves a headache. At worst, like I said, we're at least being
> consistent.
>
>
> MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
> > And it still doesn't open up the page for any potential films, books or
> > articles on anything else, because leaving a redirect is what we need to
> not
> > kill incoming links from outside of Wikipedia.
> > Mgm
> Not immediately no, but it opens up the possibility of doing so in the
> future. After a year we can drop the redirect, since most/all of the
> external links will have updated. Those that haven't, well, a broken
> link or three isn't going to bring either Wikipedia or the internet at
> large to its knees. The reason I posted this idea was because the main
> three objections to moving appeared to be:
> 1) It will be too big a strain on the servers to move such a big page
> 2) It will be too much of a hassle to update internal links
> 3) It will be too much of a hassle to update external links
>
> I think that if it came to it, we could enlist the help of devs or other
> technical wizardry to eliminate the hurdles of objection #1. Objection
> #2 has already been rebutted. I was taking aim at objection #3.
>
> There isn't any wildly important reason to move Main_Page somewhere
> else, and I say again, it certainly isn't a terribly time-sensitive
> issue. But on the other hand, there don't seem to be any wildly
> important reasons to _not_ move Main_Page, other than things being too
> much of a hassle.
>
> Cheers,
> - PeruvianLlama
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Gary Kirk
Anyway, we can always create these articles as [[Main Page (book)]],
[[Main Page (film)]] and so on. It really is a non-issue - there's no
definite reason to move our Main Page.

Jm2p...

On 1/15/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It might be just me, but I don't think a movie or book titled "Main Page"
> would actually get sold to a editor or studio representative. Titles are key
> to drawing in an audience, and when someone came to me with that as a title,
> I'd ask them to change it.
>
> Mgm
>
>
> On 1/14/07, PeruvianLlama <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Luna wrote:
> > > Right. But since we're obviously going to need such a redirect, what do
> > we
> > > gain from moving Main Page? It's a lot of work for...?
> > >
> > The idea would be that such a redirect would be temporary. The problem
> > of having Main_Page in the namespace wouldn't be solved overnight, or
> > even in a matter of days. But at least it would be solved a year (or 6
> > months, or whatever) down the road. That's a long time, but like I said,
> > I haven't seen anyone claiming that this is really any kind of an
> > immediate worry. It's just a good idea for the sake of long-term
> > consistency.
> >
> > If we wait until the movie/book/etc. called "Main Page" is made and
> > suddenly wants to be in that article page, then we no longer have the
> > luxury of doing things at a reasonable pace. Then it really will be a
> > big issue to update all of our internal links, and to hope that external
> > links update quickly enough. If we're proactive about this, we might be
> > saving ourselves a headache. At worst, like I said, we're at least being
> > consistent.
> >
> >
> > MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
> > > And it still doesn't open up the page for any potential films, books or
> > > articles on anything else, because leaving a redirect is what we need to
> > not
> > > kill incoming links from outside of Wikipedia.
> > > Mgm
> > Not immediately no, but it opens up the possibility of doing so in the
> > future. After a year we can drop the redirect, since most/all of the
> > external links will have updated. Those that haven't, well, a broken
> > link or three isn't going to bring either Wikipedia or the internet at
> > large to its knees. The reason I posted this idea was because the main
> > three objections to moving appeared to be:
> > 1) It will be too big a strain on the servers to move such a big page
> > 2) It will be too much of a hassle to update internal links
> > 3) It will be too much of a hassle to update external links
> >
> > I think that if it came to it, we could enlist the help of devs or other
> > technical wizardry to eliminate the hurdles of objection #1. Objection
> > #2 has already been rebutted. I was taking aim at objection #3.
> >
> > There isn't any wildly important reason to move Main_Page somewhere
> > else, and I say again, it certainly isn't a terribly time-sensitive
> > issue. But on the other hand, there don't seem to be any wildly
> > important reasons to _not_ move Main_Page, other than things being too
> > much of a hassle.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > - PeruvianLlama
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


--
Gary Kirk

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Eugene van der Pijll
Gary Kirk schreef:
> Anyway, we can always create these articles as [[Main Page (book)]],
> [[Main Page (film)]] and so on. It really is a non-issue - there's no
> definite reason to move our Main Page.

No we can't. Nobody would find those articles, except if we put a dab
notice at the top of our front page. And we do not want that.

As soon as there is something that really should go at [[Main Page]] (as
a proper article), the main page will have to be moved, and the internal
links should be changed.

For those external links that link directly to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, there should be a dab notice at
the top of [[Main Page]], pointing at [[Portal:Main Page]], which is not
ideal, but acceptable.

This is all irrespective of when the page is moved. There is no real
advantage in moving it now, especially when the probability of the need
of a Main Page article is low.

Eugene

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Pilotguy
In reply to this post by Gary Kirk
Indeed. Keep it the way it is now. There's no harm being done anyway.

On 1/15/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Anyway, we can always create these articles as [[Main Page (book)]],
> [[Main Page (film)]] and so on. It really is a non-issue - there's no
> definite reason to move our Main Page.
>
> Jm2p...
>
> On 1/15/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > It might be just me, but I don't think a movie or book titled "Main
> Page"
> > would actually get sold to a editor or studio representative. Titles are
> key
> > to drawing in an audience, and when someone came to me with that as a
> title,
> > I'd ask them to change it.
> >
> > Mgm
> >
> >
> > On 1/14/07, PeruvianLlama <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Luna wrote:
> > > > Right. But since we're obviously going to need such a redirect, what
> do
> > > we
> > > > gain from moving Main Page? It's a lot of work for...?
> > > >
> > > The idea would be that such a redirect would be temporary. The problem
> > > of having Main_Page in the namespace wouldn't be solved overnight, or
> > > even in a matter of days. But at least it would be solved a year (or 6
> > > months, or whatever) down the road. That's a long time, but like I
> said,
> > > I haven't seen anyone claiming that this is really any kind of an
> > > immediate worry. It's just a good idea for the sake of long-term
> > > consistency.
> > >
> > > If we wait until the movie/book/etc. called "Main Page" is made and
> > > suddenly wants to be in that article page, then we no longer have the
> > > luxury of doing things at a reasonable pace. Then it really will be a
> > > big issue to update all of our internal links, and to hope that
> external
> > > links update quickly enough. If we're proactive about this, we might
> be
> > > saving ourselves a headache. At worst, like I said, we're at least
> being
> > > consistent.
> > >
> > >
> > > MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
> > > > And it still doesn't open up the page for any potential films, books
> or
> > > > articles on anything else, because leaving a redirect is what we
> need to
> > > not
> > > > kill incoming links from outside of Wikipedia.
> > > > Mgm
> > > Not immediately no, but it opens up the possibility of doing so in the
> > > future. After a year we can drop the redirect, since most/all of the
> > > external links will have updated. Those that haven't, well, a broken
> > > link or three isn't going to bring either Wikipedia or the internet at
> > > large to its knees. The reason I posted this idea was because the main
> > > three objections to moving appeared to be:
> > > 1) It will be too big a strain on the servers to move such a big page
> > > 2) It will be too much of a hassle to update internal links
> > > 3) It will be too much of a hassle to update external links
> > >
> > > I think that if it came to it, we could enlist the help of devs or
> other
> > > technical wizardry to eliminate the hurdles of objection #1. Objection
> > > #2 has already been rebutted. I was taking aim at objection #3.
> > >
> > > There isn't any wildly important reason to move Main_Page somewhere
> > > else, and I say again, it certainly isn't a terribly time-sensitive
> > > issue. But on the other hand, there don't seem to be any wildly
> > > important reasons to _not_ move Main_Page, other than things being too
> > > much of a hassle.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > - PeruvianLlama
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
> --
> Gary Kirk
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>



--
Pilotguy
[hidden email]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pilotguy

http://pilotguy.wordpress.com
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Peter Rocky7
Frankly speaking, "Main Page" sounds very foolish.

Apparently "Today's Top Page" or "Today's Page" is better than "Main Page".

"Main Page" is, therefore, very harmful to the reliability of all admins
(except Mgm and someone) and all Wikimedia Projects.

So, I think, "Change it, however difficult, as soon as you can".

Sincerly

Peter Rocky7


On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:53:51 -0500, Pilotguy <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
>Indeed. Keep it the way it is now. There's no harm being done anyway.
>
>On 1/15/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Anyway, we can always create these articles as [[Main Page (book)]],
> > [[Main Page (film)]] and so on. It really is a non-issue - there's no
> > definite reason to move our Main Page.
> >
> > Jm2p...
> >
> > On 1/15/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > It might be just me, but I don't think a movie or book titled "Main
> > Page"
> > > would actually get sold to a editor or studio representative. Titles
are

> > key
> > > to drawing in an audience, and when someone came to me with that as a
> > title,
> > > I'd ask them to change it.
> > >
> > > Mgm
> > >
> > >
> > > On 1/14/07, PeruvianLlama <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Luna wrote:
> > > > > Right. But since we're obviously going to need such a redirect,
what
> > do
> > > > we
> > > > > gain from moving Main Page? It's a lot of work for...?
> > > > >
> > > > The idea would be that such a redirect would be temporary. The
problem
> > > > of having Main_Page in the namespace wouldn't be solved overnight,
or
> > > > even in a matter of days. But at least it would be solved a year
(or 6
> > > > months, or whatever) down the road. That's a long time, but like I
> > said,
> > > > I haven't seen anyone claiming that this is really any kind of an
> > > > immediate worry. It's just a good idea for the sake of long-term
> > > > consistency.
> > > >
> > > > If we wait until the movie/book/etc. called "Main Page" is made and
> > > > suddenly wants to be in that article page, then we no longer have
the
> > > > luxury of doing things at a reasonable pace. Then it really will be
a
> > > > big issue to update all of our internal links, and to hope that
> > external
> > > > links update quickly enough. If we're proactive about this, we
might
> > be
> > > > saving ourselves a headache. At worst, like I said, we're at least
> > being
> > > > consistent.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
> > > > > And it still doesn't open up the page for any potential films,
books
> > or
> > > > > articles on anything else, because leaving a redirect is what we
> > need to
> > > > not
> > > > > kill incoming links from outside of Wikipedia.
> > > > > Mgm
> > > > Not immediately no, but it opens up the possibility of doing so in
the
> > > > future. After a year we can drop the redirect, since most/all of
the
> > > > external links will have updated. Those that haven't, well, a
broken
> > > > link or three isn't going to bring either Wikipedia or the internet
at
> > > > large to its knees. The reason I posted this idea was because the
main
> > > > three objections to moving appeared to be:
> > > > 1) It will be too big a strain on the servers to move such a big
page
> > > > 2) It will be too much of a hassle to update internal links
> > > > 3) It will be too much of a hassle to update external links
> > > >
> > > > I think that if it came to it, we could enlist the help of devs or
> > other
> > > > technical wizardry to eliminate the hurdles of objection #1.
Objection
> > > > #2 has already been rebutted. I was taking aim at objection #3.
> > > >
> > > > There isn't any wildly important reason to move Main_Page somewhere
> > > > else, and I say again, it certainly isn't a terribly time-sensitive
> > > > issue. But on the other hand, there don't seem to be any wildly
> > > > important reasons to _not_ move Main_Page, other than things being
too

> > > > much of a hassle.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > - PeruvianLlama
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gary Kirk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
>
>--
>Pilotguy
>[hidden email]
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pilotguy
>
>http://pilotguy.wordpress.com
>_______________________________________________
>WikiEN-l mailing list
>[hidden email]
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

_________________________________________________________________
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by MacGyverMagic/Mgm
MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:

>It might be just me, but I don't think a movie or book titled "Main Page"
>would actually get sold to a editor or studio representative. Titles are key
>to drawing in an audience, and when someone came to me with that as a title,
>I'd ask them to change it.
>
It is just you.  There have been very famous bands called "The Who", and
"The Band".  There have been both a movie and a song called "The
Thing".  "Main" has already appeared in numerous movie titles like "Main
Street" and "Main Event", and even more often as a word in another
language.  "Page" has a higher proportion of English names in movies.  
There's "Front Page", "Page 3", "Home Page", "Last Page", "Runt Page",
"Back Page", "Blank Page", "Blotted Page", "Page Me", "Paging Page Two",
"Picture Page", "Page Turners",  "Entertainment Page", and of course
"Betty Page: Bondage Queen" and many others.

Changing the title is one option.  An effective marketting campaign is
another. :-)

Ec






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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by PeruvianLlama
PeruvianLlama wrote:

>The reason I posted this idea was because the main
>three objections to moving appeared to be:
>1) It will be too big a strain on the servers to move such a big page
>2) It will be too much of a hassle to update internal links
>3) It will be too much of a hassle to update external links
>
>I think that if it came to it, we could enlist the help of devs or other
>technical wizardry to eliminate the hurdles of objection #1. Objection
>#2 has already been rebutted. I was taking aim at objection #3.
>
Your response opens up
4) It will be too big a strain on the devs to develop the technical
wizardry; they may already have higher priority tasks.

>There isn't any wildly important reason to move Main_Page somewhere
>else
>
That's the stronges argument you give.

Ec


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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

PeruvianLlama
Ray Saintonge wrote:
> PeruvianLlama wrote:
>  
>> There isn't any wildly important reason to move Main_Page somewhere
>> else
>>
>>    
> That's the stronges argument you give.
>
> Ec

I'm fine with the Main_Page being moved. I'm fine with the Main_Page
being left where it is. It seemed odd however that the strongest
arguments against moving the page didn't add up to much (to wit, the
counter-arguments were themselves inconsistent), or so it seemed to me.
Consensus on the list and on the Talk: page seems to be well in favour
of maintaining the status-quo though, so all is well.

Cheers,
 - PeruvianLlama

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Ilmari Karonen
In reply to this post by Royalguard11
Royalguard11 wrote:
>
> I don't think the process wonks are getting the idea. Moving the page
> for the sake of moving it is not a good reason. Especially some of the
> semi-stupid proposals, like "putting" the main page at
> http://en.wikipedia.org (which Brion said is not possible). In this
> case, IAR and let it stay. Trying to enforse the "rules" on the main
> page is nothing short of distruption to make a point (WP:POINT).

http://en.wikipedia.org may be out, but I'm pretty sure it would be
possible to put it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ (or, in wikilink
notation, [[]]).  Not easy, mind you, but with enough hard work,
stubborn determination and a big hammer, I'm sure it could be done.

As a convenient side effect, we'd also gain the ability to have, say, a
project page named [[Wikipedia:]].  Perhaps we could move the Community
Portal there..?

(I can just hear the screams now...)

--
Ilmari Karonen

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moving the Main Page (sic)

Glen S
In reply to this post by Peter Rocky7
On 1/16/07, Rocky7 Peter <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Frankly speaking, "Main Page" sounds very foolish.
>
> Apparently "Today's Top Page" or "Today's Page" is better than "Main
> Page".
>
> "Main Page" is, therefore, very harmful to the reliability of all admins
> (except Mgm and someone) and all Wikimedia Projects.
>
> So, I think, "Change it, however difficult, as soon as you can".
>
> Sincerly
>
> Peter Rocky7



Ummm... what?! I think you're entirely missing the point; "reliability of
all admins"? I have no idea how moving it to "Today's Page" will affect my
reliability.

The entire idea of moving the page is absurd.

Glen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Glen_S

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:53:51 -0500, Pilotguy <[hidden email]>

> wrote:
> >
> >Indeed. Keep it the way it is now. There's no harm being done anyway.
> >
> >On 1/15/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anyway, we can always create these articles as [[Main Page (book)]],
> > > [[Main Page (film)]] and so on. It really is a non-issue - there's no
> > > definite reason to move our Main Page.
> > >
> > > Jm2p...
> > >
> > > On 1/15/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > It might be just me, but I don't think a movie or book titled "Main
> > > Page"
> > > > would actually get sold to a editor or studio representative. Titles
> are
> > > key
> > > > to drawing in an audience, and when someone came to me with that as
> a
> > > title,
> > > > I'd ask them to change it.
> > > >
> > > > Mgm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 1/14/07, PeruvianLlama <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Luna wrote:
> > > > > > Right. But since we're obviously going to need such a redirect,
> what
> > > do
> > > > > we
> > > > > > gain from moving Main Page? It's a lot of work for...?
> > > > > >
> > > > > The idea would be that such a redirect would be temporary. The
> problem
> > > > > of having Main_Page in the namespace wouldn't be solved overnight,
> or
> > > > > even in a matter of days. But at least it would be solved a year
> (or 6
> > > > > months, or whatever) down the road. That's a long time, but like I
> > > said,
> > > > > I haven't seen anyone claiming that this is really any kind of an
> > > > > immediate worry. It's just a good idea for the sake of long-term
> > > > > consistency.
> > > > >
> > > > > If we wait until the movie/book/etc. called "Main Page" is made
> and
> > > > > suddenly wants to be in that article page, then we no longer have
> the
> > > > > luxury of doing things at a reasonable pace. Then it really will
> be
> a
> > > > > big issue to update all of our internal links, and to hope that
> > > external
> > > > > links update quickly enough. If we're proactive about this, we
> might
> > > be
> > > > > saving ourselves a headache. At worst, like I said, we're at least
> > > being
> > > > > consistent.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
> > > > > > And it still doesn't open up the page for any potential films,
> books
> > > or
> > > > > > articles on anything else, because leaving a redirect is what we
> > > need to
> > > > > not
> > > > > > kill incoming links from outside of Wikipedia.
> > > > > > Mgm
> > > > > Not immediately no, but it opens up the possibility of doing so in
> the
> > > > > future. After a year we can drop the redirect, since most/all of
> the
> > > > > external links will have updated. Those that haven't, well, a
> broken
> > > > > link or three isn't going to bring either Wikipedia or the
> internet
> at
> > > > > large to its knees. The reason I posted this idea was because the
> main
> > > > > three objections to moving appeared to be:
> > > > > 1) It will be too big a strain on the servers to move such a big
> page
> > > > > 2) It will be too much of a hassle to update internal links
> > > > > 3) It will be too much of a hassle to update external links
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that if it came to it, we could enlist the help of devs or
> > > other
> > > > > technical wizardry to eliminate the hurdles of objection #1.
> Objection
> > > > > #2 has already been rebutted. I was taking aim at objection #3.
> > > > >
> > > > > There isn't any wildly important reason to move Main_Page
> somewhere
> > > > > else, and I say again, it certainly isn't a terribly
> time-sensitive
> > > > > issue. But on the other hand, there don't seem to be any wildly
> > > > > important reasons to _not_ move Main_Page, other than things being
> too
> > > > > much of a hassle.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > - PeruvianLlama
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gary Kirk
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Pilotguy
> >[hidden email]
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pilotguy
> >
> >http://pilotguy.wordpress.com
> >_______________________________________________
> >WikiEN-l mailing list
> >[hidden email]
> >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> >http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>



--
Glen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Glen_S
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