[WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

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[WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

thekohser
I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are regarding
this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I do?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16795533/

Clearly, I'm in the minority, but it's certainly not a small minority.  I
would also love to learn (if it were only possible) what the demographics
are of those who responded "No way" versus those who responded "Sure".  I
would venture a guess that the average age and household income of those
saying "Sure" is higher than those who say "No way".

Also, I'd like to mention here to Guy Chapman that he's either
deleting/ignoring the three civilly-worded e-mails I have sent him, or he's
not getting them whatsoever.  Geni did me a favor and e-mailed Guy, too --
but I've not heard back from either of them.  Guy, care to comment about
whether you're "taking" correspondence at your spamcop address?

--
Gregory Kohs
Cell: 302.463.1354
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Matthew Britton-2
Gregory Kohs wrote:

> I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are regarding
> this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I do?
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16795533/
>
> Clearly, I'm in the minority, but it's certainly not a small minority.  I
> would also love to learn (if it were only possible) what the demographics
> are of those who responded "No way" versus those who responded "Sure".  I
> would venture a guess that the average age and household income of those
> saying "Sure" is higher than those who say "No way".
>
> Also, I'd like to mention here to Guy Chapman that he's either
> deleting/ignoring the three civilly-worded e-mails I have sent him, or he's
> not getting them whatsoever.  Geni did me a favor and e-mailed Guy, too --
> but I've not heard back from either of them.  Guy, care to comment about
> whether you're "taking" correspondence at your spamcop address?

I voted "What's Wikipedia"?

In unrelated news, 87.3% of statistics are misleading.

-Gurch


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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by thekohser
On 01/02/07, Gregory Kohs <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are regarding
> this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I do?
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16795533/


My opinion is that self-selected samples are statistically bogus and
inherently meaningless. In the press, they are mostly for amusement
value. See [[self-selection]].


- d.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Jeff Raymond

David Gerard wrote:

> On 01/02/07, Gregory Kohs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are
>> regarding
>> this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I
>> do?
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16795533/
>
>
> My opinion is that self-selected samples are statistically bogus and
> inherently meaningless. In the press, they are mostly for amusement
> value. See [[self-selection]].
>
Pretty much.  I would say this privately, but it's worth saying publically
- Gregory, you know that I don't disagree with your position as a whole,
but you're not going to win over your critics with this sort of thing.

-Jeff

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Cheney Shill
In reply to this post by thekohser
Gregory Kohs <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential
> Wikipedians" are regarding
> this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people
> think like I do?
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16795533/

There wasn't a vote for, "Can you phrase the question to be
more misleading?"

"Is it ok to pay people to post or edit Wikipedia content?"
- I'd say it's easy to have wrongly interpreted that to be
a question about whether it's OK for Wikipedia to hire
editors/posters.  If you phrase it as, is it OK for
companies to insert undisclosed ads and PR into articles,
you'll get very different survey results.


~~Pro-Lick
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Halliburton_Shill 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pro-Lick 
http://www.wikiality.com/User:Pro-Lick (now a Wikia supported site)


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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

geni
In reply to this post by thekohser
On 2/1/07, Gregory Kohs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are regarding
> this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I do?
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16795533/
>
> Clearly, I'm in the minority, but it's certainly not a small minority.

Yes you are. See the people voteing it was ok were thinking about
people like danny not you.

--
geni

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Mark Wagner-2
In reply to this post by thekohser
On 2/1/07, Gregory Kohs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are regarding
> this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I do?
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16795533/

My opinion is that the poll provides no protection against ballot-stuffing.

--
Mark
[[User:Carnildo]]

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

· Firefoxman
In reply to this post by thekohser
The Current stats are No way. The beauty of the site is that it's policed by
volunteers who keep it PR-free.
*57*% Sure. Everyone, paid or volunteer, has trouble staying neutral.
*39*% What's Wikipedia?
*4.1*%


On 2/1/07, Gregory Kohs <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are regarding
> this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I do?
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16795533/
>
> Clearly, I'm in the minority, but it's certainly not a small minority.  I
> would also love to learn (if it were only possible) what the demographics
> are of those who responded "No way" versus those who responded "Sure".  I
> would venture a guess that the average age and household income of those
> saying "Sure" is higher than those who say "No way".
>
> Also, I'd like to mention here to Guy Chapman that he's either
> deleting/ignoring the three civilly-worded e-mails I have sent him, or
> he's
> not getting them whatsoever.  Geni did me a favor and e-mailed Guy, too --
> but I've not heard back from either of them.  Guy, care to comment about
> whether you're "taking" correspondence at your spamcop address?
>
> --
> Gregory Kohs
> Cell: 302.463.1354
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>



--
-Firefoxman
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Charles Matthews
In reply to this post by thekohser
> *57*% Sure. Everyone, paid or volunteer, has trouble staying neutral.

Wonder who supplied this exact wording? It has an odd, familiar ring.

Charles

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Oskar Sigvardsson
In reply to this post by Mark Wagner-2
On 2/1/07, Mark Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 2/1/07, Gregory Kohs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are regarding
> > this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I do?
> >
> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16795533/
>
> My opinion is that the poll provides no protection against ballot-stuffing.

Sure it does! It probably sets a cookie! You know, a cookie! Those
delicios delicacies that are the ultimate protection against
everything!

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Cheney Shill
Oskar Sigvardsson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/1/07, Mark Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > My opinion is that the poll provides no protection
> against ballot-stuffing.
>
> Sure it does! It probably sets a cookie! You know, a
> cookie! Those
> delicios delicacies that are the ultimate protection
> against everything!

Mmmmm.  Sure you don't want to mention a brand name.  You
know, some taste better.  And pay better too!


~~Pro-Lick
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Halliburton_Shill 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pro-Lick 
http://www.wikiality.com/User:Pro-Lick (now a Wikia supported site)


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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by thekohser
A poll by Microsoft asking if what they've just done is ok... would
you blame me for being just a little sceptical about the validity of
their methods?

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Luna-4
In reply to this post by Cheney Shill
On 2/1/07, Cheney Shill <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There wasn't a vote for, "Can you phrase the question to be
> more misleading?"
>
> "Is it ok to pay people to post or edit Wikipedia content?"
> - I'd say it's easy to have wrongly interpreted that to be
> a question about whether it's OK for Wikipedia to hire
> editors/posters.  If you phrase it as, is it OK for
> companies to insert undisclosed ads and PR into articles,
> you'll get very different survey results.


Too true. More often than not, it's all in how we phrase a question. Their
choice was rather ambiguous on the count of who was doing the paying.

Personally, I heard a story of a company that had paid somebody to check up
on their article, now and then -- just to make sure it wasn't vandalized and
nobody was saying *blatantly* crappy and false stuff about them. The guy
wasn't supposed to make any substantive edits, only to make sure nothing too
untoward happened to the article. *That* doesn't bother me, provided they
stay with really clear-cut cases like that.

Paid editors can be neutral (take journalists and news reporters, for
example), but being paid (or even employed in the long term) by the very
subject of your writing poses an obvious and inherent conflict of interest.
It may be possible to write neutrally in such circumstances, but it would
have to be the exception to the rule, for one to be able to do so.

-Luna
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
In reply to this post by Cheney Shill
Cheney Shill wrote:

> Gregory Kohs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential
>> Wikipedians" are regarding
>> this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people
>> think like I do?
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16795533/
>
> There wasn't a vote for, "Can you phrase the question to be
> more misleading?"
>
I missed the "have you stopped beating your wife yet" vote, too.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP


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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Guy Chapman aka JzG
In reply to this post by thekohser
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 12:10:29 -0500, "Gregory Kohs"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are regarding
>this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I do?

I'm not influential, but my opinion is that you are beating the bloody
smear where the dead horse once lay.

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Guy Chapman aka JzG
In reply to this post by Charles Matthews
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 20:33:51 +0000, <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>Wonder who supplied this exact wording? It has an odd, familiar ring.

Just so.

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Sean Barrett-3
In reply to this post by Guy Chapman aka JzG
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Guy Chapman aka JzG stated for the record:
> On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 12:10:29 -0500, "Gregory Kohs"
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are regarding
>> this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I do?
>
> I'm not influential, but my opinion is that you are beating the bloody
> smear where the dead horse once lay.

A stopped clock may be right twice a day, but it's still useless.

- --
 Sean Barrett     | A thunder of jets in an open sky,
 [hidden email] | A streak of gray and a cheerful "Hi!"
                  | A loop, a whirl, a vertical climb,
                  | And once again you know it's time....
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Steve Bennett-8
In reply to this post by thekohser
On 2/2/07, Gregory Kohs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are regarding
> this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I do?

I think it ought to be trialled. We're all making a lot of assumptions
about what would happen if paid editing were to occur. Why not do a
trial on a couple of articles, and monitor but not interfere with the
article over a period of a few months?

Steve

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Ray Saintonge
Steve Bennett wrote:

>On 2/2/07, Gregory Kohs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm wondering what the opinions of "influential Wikipedians" are regarding
>>this MSNBC poll that shows 40% of over a thousand people think like I do?
>>    
>>
>I think it ought to be trialled. We're all making a lot of assumptions
>about what would happen if paid editing were to occur. Why not do a
>trial on a couple of articles, and monitor but not interfere with the
>article over a period of a few months?
>
It would be totally unacceptable to take the position that an article
being worked on by a paid editor could not be edited by anyone else
during that time.

Ec


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Re: [WikiEN-l] Survey about paid editing

Ilmari Karonen
Ray Saintonge wrote:

> Steve Bennett wrote:
>>
>> I think it ought to be trialled. We're all making a lot of assumptions
>> about what would happen if paid editing were to occur. Why not do a
>> trial on a couple of articles, and monitor but not interfere with the
>> article over a period of a few months?
>
> It would be totally unacceptable to take the position that an article
> being worked on by a paid editor could not be edited by anyone else
> during that time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Steve, but I rather assumed "interfere" in this
context meant "block the editors who admit to being paid", not "allow
others to edit the article too".

Personally, I'm rather in favor of such an experiment.  It's not as if
it could possibly make things that much worse than they already are.

--
Ilmari Karonen

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