Wikimania 2009 locations

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Wikimania 2009 locations

Gary Kirk
The last two UK Wikimania bids have been for London. This is probably preferred, but I am throwing it open to you if you have a really good idea, and preferably you either live there or have good contacts there. If you think of somewhere but know nobody there, post here, as there may be people on this list who can help.
 
As I say London is where it's at as they say but it's not set in stone. We have more time until bidding than we did for Wikimania 2008 - since I first posted in late August anyway - so let's get going again.
 
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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Thomas Dalton
On 09/10/2007, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The last two UK Wikimania bids have been for London. This is probably
> preferred, but I am throwing it open to you if you have a really good idea,
> and preferably you either live there or have good contacts there. If you
> think of somewhere but know nobody there, post here, as there may be people
> on this list who can help.
>
> As I say London is where it's at as they say but it's not set in stone. We
> have more time until bidding than we did for Wikimania 2008 - since I first
> posted in late August anyway - so let's get going again.

My vote is for London (and that's not because I live there, since I
don't) - it's the easiest place to get to, is extremely multicultural,
and only occasionally gets blown up ;).

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Majorly
On 09/10/2007, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 09/10/2007, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The last two UK Wikimania bids have been for London. This is probably
> preferred, but I am throwing it open to you if you have a really good idea,
> and preferably you either live there or have good contacts there. If you
> think of somewhere but know nobody there, post here, as there may be people
> on this list who can help.
>
> As I say London is where it's at as they say but it's not set in stone. We
> have more time until bidding than we did for Wikimania 2008 - since I first
> posted in late August anyway - so let's get going again.

My vote is for London (and that's not because I live there, since I
don't) - it's the easiest place to get to, is extremely multicultural,
and only occasionally gets blown up ;).

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And is also very expensive.

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Thomas Dalton
> And is also very expensive.

That is the main disadvantage, yes, but when you factor in the extra
travel costs involved in getting anywhere else (there are direct
international flights to other places in the UK, but nowhere near as
many), it shouldn't make too large a difference.

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

geni
In reply to this post by Majorly
On 09/10/2007, Majorly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And is also very expensive.

It is safe to assume the majority of the attendees from outside Europe
will arrive in London and most of those from Europe will arrive in
London or the southeast. As a result logistics mean that Scotland and
northern england would be problematical. In terms of facilities people
are generally looking at universities so in practice we are probably
looking for universities within striking distance of London.

Looking at  UCAS we find

http://www.ucas.com/instit/se/index.html
http://www.ucas.com/instit/e/index.html
http://www.ucas.com/instit/gl/index.html

Although the numbers can be trimmed somewhat by removing all those
cases where a College gets listed for having a handful of HE courses.



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geni

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Michael Bimmler
On 10/9/07, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 09/10/2007, Majorly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > And is also very expensive.
>
> It is safe to assume the majority of the attendees from outside Europe
> will arrive in London and most of those from Europe will arrive in
> London or the southeast. As a result logistics mean that Scotland and
> northern england would be problematical. In terms of facilities people
> are generally looking at universities so in practice we are probably
> looking for universities within striking distance of London.

Oxford! Oxford! Oxford! With this, I hand again over to you who
actually have to organise it :)

Michael

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Andrew Gray
On 09/10/2007, Michael Bimmler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > It is safe to assume the majority of the attendees from outside Europe
> > will arrive in London and most of those from Europe will arrive in
> > London or the southeast. As a result logistics mean that Scotland and
> > northern england would be problematical. In terms of facilities people
> > are generally looking at universities so in practice we are probably
> > looking for universities within striking distance of London.
>
> Oxford! Oxford! Oxford! With this, I hand again over to you who
> actually have to organise it :)

The cheap accomodation is usually flooded well in advance by foreign
students (summer schools, etc -  the name sells very well) and the
university is quite good at squeezing money out of visitors.

Mind you, we managed MIT, so...

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Majorly
In reply to this post by Michael Bimmler
On 09/10/2007, Michael Bimmler <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 10/9/07, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 09/10/2007, Majorly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > And is also very expensive.
>
> It is safe to assume the majority of the attendees from outside Europe
> will arrive in London and most of those from Europe will arrive in
> London or the southeast. As a result logistics mean that Scotland and
> northern england would be problematical. In terms of facilities people
> are generally looking at universities so in practice we are probably
> looking for universities within striking distance of London.

Oxford! Oxford! Oxford! With this, I hand again over to you who
actually have to organise it :)

Michael

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Well if you want it at Oxford, perhaps you could help organise it.

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Andrew Gray
> The cheap accomodation is usually flooded well in advance by foreign
> students (summer schools, etc -  the name sells very well) and the
> university is quite good at squeezing money out of visitors.
>
> Mind you, we managed MIT, so...

Not that the person with the Dunelm email address is at all biased. ;)

I imagine Oxford is one of the most expensive unis for holding
conferences in, simply because it's Oxford.

MIT has a strong interest in things like Wikipedia, so that probably
helped there. Oxford has no such interest...

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Jimmy Wales
Thomas Dalton wrote:

>> The cheap accomodation is usually flooded well in advance by foreign
>> students (summer schools, etc -  the name sells very well) and the
>> university is quite good at squeezing money out of visitors.
>>
>> Mind you, we managed MIT, so...
>
> Not that the person with the Dunelm email address is at all biased. ;)
>
> I imagine Oxford is one of the most expensive unis for holding
> conferences in, simply because it's Oxford.
>
> MIT has a strong interest in things like Wikipedia, so that probably
> helped there. Oxford has no such interest...

So actually it was Harvard, and that was helped along greatly by my
association with the Berkman Center at Harvard Law School.

For Oxford, the equivalent organization is OII:
http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/

We have friends and fans there, as well, including most prominently
Jonathan Zittrain.

It is quite possible that OII would jump at the chance to assist with a bid.

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Andrew Gray-3
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
On 09/10/2007, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The cheap accomodation is usually flooded well in advance by foreign
> > students (summer schools, etc -  the name sells very well) and the
> > university is quite good at squeezing money out of visitors.
> >
> > Mind you, we managed MIT, so...
>
> Not that the person with the Dunelm email address is at all biased. ;)

Hmm? I live in south Oxford and work quite closely with the academic
community here... I certainly wouldn't recommend a conference in
Durham ;-)

> I imagine Oxford is one of the most expensive unis for holding
> conferences in, simply because it's Oxford.

You might have a decent shot at Brookes, but they are likely to have
the same summer-schools issue. (It's hard to realise the sheer scale
of "Oxford language courses" and so on in academic off-season until
you've seen the proliferation of summer students...)

> MIT has a strong interest in things like Wikipedia, so that probably
> helped there. Oxford has no such interest...

You'd be surprised. It's not quite as staid a place as it seems,
there's a couple of good specialist bodies around, and I've got v.
good reactions to mentioning Wiki[p/m]edia in conversation with
academics in the past. In fact, I've never met an academic who was
immediately dismissive from a standing start.

Fundamentally, from the academic standpoint, we have a prominent name
even if it has an asterisk next to it. People don't always like our
end product, but they do usually respect what we're trying to do and
get intrigued by the way and the scale we go about it.

--
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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Tom Holden
In reply to this post by Michael Bimmler
I'm at Oxford so I could potentially be of some (limited) help if people
were serious about Oxford. (But I don't have that much time so I'm afraid
I'm not volunteering to be the sole Oxford coordinator...)

I'd also point out that choosing Oxford over London on cost grounds is
probably a false economy. Oxford is very expensive these days. (I'm paying
£115 a week for my single, non-en-suite room in student accommodation and
conference guests can expect to pay a premium.) The conference market is one
of the colleges' main sources of income as they're all so bad at pestering
old members.

On the other hand, a few years I tried to arrange for Jimmy Wales to come
and speak at the Oxford Internet Institute which both sides seemed keen on
at the time, (though for one reason or another it never happened), so
potentially there might be enough academic interest to get a few things for
free.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael
Bimmler
Sent: 09 October 2007 22:28
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimania 2009 locations

On 10/9/07, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 09/10/2007, Majorly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > And is also very expensive.
>
> It is safe to assume the majority of the attendees from outside Europe
> will arrive in London and most of those from Europe will arrive in
> London or the southeast. As a result logistics mean that Scotland and
> northern england would be problematical. In terms of facilities people
> are generally looking at universities so in practice we are probably
> looking for universities within striking distance of London.

Oxford! Oxford! Oxford! With this, I hand again over to you who
actually have to organise it :)

Michael

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Jimmy Wales
Tom Holden wrote:
> On the other hand, a few years I tried to arrange for Jimmy Wales to come
> and speak at the Oxford Internet Institute which both sides seemed keen on
> at the time, (though for one reason or another it never happened), so
> potentially there might be enough academic interest to get a few things for
> free.

It did happen!  And you were instrumental in arranging it!

http://webcast.oii.ox.ac.uk/?view=Webcast&ID=20050711_76

:)



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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Andrew Gray
In reply to this post by Michael Bimmler
On 09/10/2007, Tom Holden <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm at Oxford so I could potentially be of some (limited) help if people
> were serious about Oxford. (But I don't have that much time so I'm afraid
> I'm not volunteering to be the sole Oxford coordinator...)
>
> I'd also point out that choosing Oxford over London on cost grounds is
> probably a false economy. Oxford is very expensive these days. (I'm paying
> £115 a week for my single, non-en-suite room in student accommodation and
> conference guests can expect to pay a premium.)

Ha! I pay a shade over double that for a monthly rent in the suburbs,
but I am on perhaps the most freakishly cheap lease in the county*.

This is probably the biggest problem, and I think perhaps enough to
make it impractical. Oxford is no cheaper than London in practical
terms - and, indeed, may be more expensive over all participants once
you factor in the smaller pool of cheap accommodation to draw on.

> On the other hand, a few years I tried to arrange for Jimmy Wales to come
> and speak at the Oxford Internet Institute which both sides seemed keen on
> at the time, (though for one reason or another it never happened), so
> potentially there might be enough academic interest to get a few things for
> free.

Mmm. I'm not sure how much clout there is for the organisers, but in
my experience the conference side is quite separate from the actual
academic "oh, we like those people" side, so unless you rope them in
early on...

(The decentralised nature may also be problematic here. Would you need
to cosy up to a college as well as the Internet Institute?)

--
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* I live in continual fear my landlord will hear about this and double it.

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Katie Chan
In reply to this post by geni
> It is safe to assume the majority of the attendees from outside Europe
> will arrive in London and most of those from Europe will arrive in
> London or the southeast. As a result logistics mean that Scotland and
> northern england would be problematical. In terms of facilities people
> are generally looking at universities so in practice we are probably
> looking for universities within striking distance of London.

Well, Edinburgh can be a possibility if you go north.

The accommodation is a plenty whether one looking at university related
or otherwise. Flights and trains available from London. Tourist
demonstrably have no problem traveling there as seen from the numbers
during the Edinburgh Festival. However, as because of the festival,
August will be out, so one will be looking at mid-to-end July.

There's 3 local universities that might be interested in supporting.

Cost is only marginally cheaper than London (and Oxford?).

Not that I'm not biased at all being at university at Edinburgh....

KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
  - Heinrich Heine

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Gordon Joly
In reply to this post by Andrew Gray


2009? Only three years to the Olympics, so why not Queen Mary
College? Less than one mile from the Olympic site!!

Gordon

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Andrew Gray
In reply to this post by Katie Chan
On 09/10/2007, Kwan Ting Chan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > It is safe to assume the majority of the attendees from outside Europe
> > will arrive in London and most of those from Europe will arrive in
> > London or the southeast. As a result logistics mean that Scotland and
> > northern england would be problematical. In terms of facilities people
> > are generally looking at universities so in practice we are probably
> > looking for universities within striking distance of London.
>
> Well, Edinburgh can be a possibility if you go north.
>
> The accommodation is a plenty whether one looking at university related
> or otherwise. Flights and trains available from London. Tourist
> demonstrably have no problem traveling there as seen from the numbers
> during the Edinburgh Festival. However, as because of the festival,
> August will be out, so one will be looking at mid-to-end July.

(Disclaimer: I love Edinburgh dearly)

The problem with anywhere that isn't in the immediate vicinity of a
major international airport (ie, London or the area; Manchester, etc)
is that every attendee from abroad basically has to pay an extra leg
compared to going to a city that is. (Oxford gets by on this
consideration because it's relatively close to Heathrow, but Edinburgh
isn't...)

This means that if you have two cities of equal expense, the one with
the better transport is, well, better.

International travel into Edinburgh - at least from outside NW Europe
- sucks; you need to go into London or Glasgow or Manchester and
change. This means, oh, an extra £20-£100 per head in transport costs.
With Edinburgh not being a very cheap city regardless - not up there
with London, but pushing it - and with price being one of the major
negative factors in a UK bid, this isn't a very good sign...

That said, it's not implausible a July bid might be workable. I'm just
not sold we could keep the prices down enough to be in with a chance.

--
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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Gary Kirk
In reply to this post by Andrew Gray
Don't quite see the Olympic relevance but indeed, why not QML?

On 10/9/07, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> 2009? Only three years to the Olympics, so why not Queen Mary
> College? Less than one mile from the Olympic site!!
>
> Gordon
>
> --
> "Think Feynman"/////////
> http://pobox.com/~gordo/
> [hidden email]///
>
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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Alison M. Wheeler
On Tue, October 9, 2007 23:42, Gary Kirk wrote:
> Don't quite see the Olympic relevance but indeed, why not QML?

Because, unless they've changed since a couple of years' ago, the Open
University hold their London region summer schools there and have the
place booked out ...

Alison

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Re: Wikimania 2009 locations

Gary Kirk
Perhaps someone in the know could check that out and report back.
Cheers

On 10/10/07, Alison Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, October 9, 2007 23:42, Gary Kirk wrote:
> > Don't quite see the Olympic relevance but indeed, why not QML?
>
> Because, unless they've changed since a couple of years' ago, the Open
> University hold their London region summer schools there and have the
> place booked out ...
>
> Alison
>
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