Wikimania 2011

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Wikimania 2011

Joseph Seddon-2
Lets see some bids :)

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids

Seddon

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Al Tally
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 3:49 AM, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]> wrote:
Lets see some bids :)

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids

Seddon



Let me guess, North America will win this time? I don't think Australia has had a turn yet either.

--
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(User:Majorly)

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Mariano Cecowski
--- El vie 11-sep-09, Al Tally <[hidden email]> escribió:

> 2009 at 3:49 AM, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Lets see some bids :)
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids
>
> Seddon
>
>
>
> Let me guess, North America will win this time? I don't
> think Australia has had a turn yet either.

Well, We haven't seen a French speaking host yet, so the République de Québec might not be a bad idea anyway. Another bilingual Wikimanie?

Otherwise, I think is already Antarctica's turn.

Mariano Cecowski.


      Yahoo! Cocina

Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.


http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Casey Brown-5
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Mariano Cecowski
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Another bilingual Wikimanie?
>

Before we say that we need to evaluate how the bilingual nature worked
this time around.

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Galileo Vidoni
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Mariano Cecowski
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Another bilingual Wikimanie?
>

Before we say that we need to evaluate how the bilingual nature worked
this time around.

Feel free to ask WM2009 attendees :).

galio

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Thomas Dalton
2009/9/13 Galileo Vidoni <[hidden email]>:

> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Mariano Cecowski
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Another bilingual Wikimanie?
>> >
>>
>> Before we say that we need to evaluate how the bilingual nature worked
>> this time around.
>
> Feel free to ask WM2009 attendees :).

Presumably there will be a formal post mortem, where this issue will
be given a lot of consideration.

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Joseph Seddon-2
Like the formal post mortem we were supposed to have of WM 2008 which I have yet to see materialise?

Seddon

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
2009/9/13 Galileo Vidoni <[hidden email]>:
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Mariano Cecowski
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Another bilingual Wikimanie?
>> >
>>
>> Before we say that we need to evaluate how the bilingual nature worked
>> this time around.
>
> Feel free to ask WM2009 attendees :).

Presumably there will be a formal post mortem, where this issue will
be given a lot of consideration.

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Casey Brown-5
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Galileo Vidoni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Feel free to ask WM2009 attendees :).
>

But that's not systematic and it's not that simple. :-)  It's a
multi-layered issue with the attendees, the would-be attendees (didn't
some people say they wouldn't come because it was bilingual?), and
especially the organizers all having important comments.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Presumably there will be a formal post mortem, where this issue will
> be given a lot of consideration.
>

I'm pretty sure the local team is actively working on one internally
first and then they'll publish it to the community for more feedback.
If they're not, I know quite a few people who would be interested in
putting their own post-mortem together.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 7:13 AM, Joseph Seddon
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Like the formal post mortem we were supposed to have of WM 2008 which I have
> yet to see materialise?
>

Supposed to have?  There was a lot of work put into it,
<http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Post-mortem> and even a
survey: <http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Survey>.  Granted,
this isn't the best-looking and easy to access post-mortem we could've
made, but at least it was one of the early attempts at teaching future
organizers what to do.  We're supposed to get better every year, not
let the mistakes of last year hang over our heads. :-)

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Thomas Dalton
2009/9/13 Casey Brown <[hidden email]>:
> Supposed to have?  There was a lot of work put into it,
> <http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Post-mortem> and even a
> survey: <http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Survey>.  Granted,
> this isn't the best-looking and easy to access post-mortem we could've
> made, but at least it was one of the early attempts at teaching future
> organizers what to do.  We're supposed to get better every year, not
> let the mistakes of last year hang over our heads. :-)

You have linked to a list of people interested in taking part and an
agenda. That is the preparation for a post-mortem, not a post-mortem.
Where are the conclusions?

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Re: Wikimania 2011

osama Ahmadani
In reply to this post by Joseph Seddon-2
please iam getting too many e-mails from this e-mail list ...
could it be possible that I could be removed from the list .....
thanx
 
Baz
 

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:13:02 +0100
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2011

Like the formal post mortem we were supposed to have of WM 2008 which I have yet to see materialise?

Seddon

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
2009/9/13 Galileo Vidoni <[hidden email]>:
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>
>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Mariano Cecowski
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Another bilingual Wikimanie?
>> >
>>
>> Before we say that we need to evaluate how the bilingual nature worked
>> this time around.
>
> Feel free to ask WM2009 attendees :).

Presumably there will be a formal post mortem, where this issue will
be given a lot of consideration.

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Thomas Dalton
2009/9/13 osama Ahmadani <[hidden email]>:
> please iam getting too many e-mails from this e-mail list ...
> could it be possible that I could be removed from the list .....
> thanx

Click the link at the very bottom of this email and follow the
unsubscribe instructions there.

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Anirudh S. Bhati
In reply to this post by osama Ahmadani
You can use this page to login and unsubscribe yourself.

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

Yours sincerely,

Anirudh Singh Bhati
Student of Law, Gujarat National Law University,
Gandhinagar, India.

Handphone: +919328712208
Skype: anirudhsbh

If this email were legal advice, it would be followed by a bill.


On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM, osama Ahmadani <[hidden email]> wrote:
please iam getting too many e-mails from this e-mail list ...
could it be possible that I could be removed from the list .....
thanx
 
Baz
 

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:13:02 +0100
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2011


Like the formal post mortem we were supposed to have of WM 2008 which I have yet to see materialise?

Seddon

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
2009/9/13 Galileo Vidoni <[hidden email]>:
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Mariano Cecowski
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Another bilingual Wikimanie?
>> >
>>
>> Before we say that we need to evaluate how the bilingual nature worked
>> this time around.
>
> Feel free to ask WM2009 attendees :).

Presumably there will be a formal post mortem, where this issue will
be given a lot of consideration.

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l



Have more than one Hotmail account? Link them together to easily access both.

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Galileo Vidoni
In reply to this post by Casey Brown-5
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Galileo Vidoni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Feel free to ask WM2009 attendees :).
>

But that's not systematic and it's not that simple. :-)  It's a
multi-layered issue with the attendees, the would-be attendees (didn't
some people say they wouldn't come because it was bilingual?)
, and
especially the organizers all having important comments.

I know that, of course, and that's why we are working on the postmortem thing. But if you want to know how did the multilingual aspect of the conference work out, you still may have to ask actual Wikimania attendees. I'm sorry but "would-be" attendees, no matter the reasons that prevented them from participating, just can't provide feedback on the issue.

I would like to say that saying you wouldn't go somewhere because it has a bilingual program is plainly, blatantly stupid. I don't know if someone did effectively say that, and if someone did so he must have misunderstood something. What I did hear were thankful compliments from both local and foreign attendees praising the simultaneous translation service and the possibility of having people present or attend conferences in their native language. This last group is way bigger that, let's suppose, no more than five people that may have misunderstood the bilingual approach and avoided registering for this year (and I still don't get to know them).

Wikimania 2009's program was extremely packed up, with up to five parallel sessions taking place during the whole three days. We did not cancel any activity in English because of the activities in Spanish. The Program Committee, of which I was a member, did not reject any proposal based on language prescriptions or quotas. Spanish language content was just an addition, an extra possibility we planned to offer right from Buenos Aires' bid submission back in late 2007/early 2008. The jury evidently valued that, because it was one of our key proposals for hosting Wikimania.

Excuse me, but no one can reasonably state that he would not attend a conference because it is not English-only: he may just stay within the English language activities, which were plenty and most of them in Wikimania 2009, and so did many attendees without ever having to hear a word in Spanish! What is more, what would you say to the sizeable amount of people that just had the possibility of attending their first Wikimania because content was being held and translated into the sole language they speak? I must highlight that simultaneous translation worked not only for having English sessions in Spanish: all of the presentations in Spanish were translated into English, and I punctually remember Samuel Klein telling the audience during the Q&A session that he was glad of having had the possibility to attend some particular presentations (originally) in Spanish.

If Wikimedia's policy of multilingualism and the strategic planning process' aim of expanding Wikimedia's reach in the Global South are more than just words --and I indeed believe it--, then Wikimania should also progressively cease to diminish when possible its anglocentric nature. And it's not anglocentric, I think, by choice, as someone may misunderstand, but by force. We can all understand that English is the "first global language", that the Foundation is based in the US and that the biggest Wikimedia projects are those in English. But, on the other side, we all also know that Wikimedia projects are available in hundreds of languages and that the Foundation's policy is to host projects and contents in every possible language.

It is thus clear that Wikimania 2009's multilingual approach can't be understood as an anomaly, as something subject to much opinion, as if the English-speaking population was to have the last world on where or not should the rest of the world have the opportunity of also (i.e. not only) having Wikimania in their language(s). It was not a whim from the organizing team but a rational, expectable, needful step for having future bilingual and let's hope multilingual editions of Wikimania. Nobody is talking of cutting out English language contents here, just of enabling other people, other voices and other POVs to take part of the conference.

I don't know if the Gdansk team has foreseen the possibility of having sessions in Polish for 2010 --I think they didn't, but I may be happily wrong--, but I would love for example to see a bilingual English-French conference in Montréal, and a tri, quatri, polilingual Wikimania some day in the future. I think most of you will agree with me here.

The only possiblity of thinking of bilingualism as something negative may have been this year's experience being a disaster, but thankfully I think that was not the case.

Best regards,

galio
(from the former WM2009 Organizing Team)

P.S.: You may excuse my English, I certainly go better with Spanish.

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Effe iets anders
Hi,

2009/9/14 Galileo Vidoni <[hidden email]>
<snip>

I would like to say that saying you wouldn't go somewhere because it has a bilingual program is plainly, blatantly stupid. I don't know if someone did effectively say that, and if someone did so he must have misunderstood something. What I did hear were thankful compliments from both local and foreign attendees praising the simultaneous translation service and the possibility of having people present or attend conferences in their native language. This last group is way bigger that, let's suppose, no more than five people that may have misunderstood the bilingual approach and avoided registering for this year (and I still don't get to know them).

Actually I think I was one of the people who said something along these lines, but there's of course more behind it. First of all, one should realize going to Wikimania is a huge investment of money and time. To me personally, the bilingualism was a down side of the program. This was not even so much because I thought there would be less English sessions because of that, but because I had the impression that it would give a certain atmosphere where there would be a clear division in the community between the Spanish speaking people not speaking English and the English speaking people not speaking Spanish. This would be enforced by the program being partially in Spanish. So yes, I found it as a down side, and even at the conference (in the end, I was able to go, and glad I went) I think that the bilingualism caused some trouble - for example because the announcements were made in Spanish at moments almost nobody carried a translation device, or because translation devices don't work perfectly.

So... I hope this doesn't make me plainly, blatantly stupid. You can agree or disagree, but please, people make their own choices, and might have actually reasons why they think something is important or not.
 

<snip>
Excuse me, but no one can reasonably state that he would not attend a conference because it is not English-only: he may just stay within the English language activities, which were plenty and most of them in Wikimania 2009, and so did many attendees without ever having to hear a word in Spanish! What is more, what would you say to the sizeable amount of people that just had the possibility of attending their first Wikimania because content was being held and translated into the sole language they speak? I must highlight that simultaneous translation worked not only for having English sessions in Spanish: all of the presentations in Spanish were translated into English, and I punctually remember Samuel Klein telling the audience during the Q&A session that he was glad of having had the possibility to attend some particular presentations (originally) in Spanish.

Sure, there are good reasons to /have/ bilingual sessions, and to have some Spanish sessions too. However, that does /not/ mean that other people can't estimate those arguments differently then you, and might find it no longer worth while to invest the time and money to go to Wikimania. And as I explained above, what you describe was actually part of my argument. There would be a separation of the present people into two groups, and for some part that is what happened. Now to make a good analysis of the pro's and con's for that, you should be open to cricism I think, even from the unreasonable people who did not attend for whatever reason. Most of the times they might say things you find stupid, but you'd be surprised that some of them actually have a reasoning behind it.
 

<snip>

I don't know if the Gdansk team has foreseen the possibility of having sessions in Polish for 2010 --I think they didn't, but I may be happily wrong--, but I would love for example to see a bilingual English-French conference in Montréal, and a tri, quatri, polilingual Wikimania some day in the future. I think most of you will agree with me here.


Well, I for sure do not agree here. There might be bilingual sessions for practical reasons, but I do not think it should be a goal on itself. Language is a mean, not a goal. In Europe there are plenty of multilingual meetings and we call that the European Parliament. Very expensive and tiring imho.
 
The only possiblity of thinking of bilingualism as something negative may have been this year's experience being a disaster, but thankfully I think that was not the case.


I think bilingualism always carries a risk and a down side. It doesn't have to destroy the conference, but it certainly doesn't have to improve it either. I can't tell from my position with the current information whether it was actually an improvement or not of the conference.
 
Best regards,

galio
(from the former WM2009 Organizing Team)

P.S.: You may excuse my English, I certainly go better with Spanish.

Oh, your English is just fine, don't you worry :)

Best, Lodewijk

PS: I realize that not being very pro multilingualism is considered politically incorrect, rude and stupid to do in public. I'll just apologize in advance for this ;-)

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
A well reasoned and rounded argument about the pros and cons of a translation service at a conference does not make you anti multilingualism.  I admit to having had reservations about multi language conferences because for me a conference is very much a place where I meet people and develop new and existing relations. When I meet too many people who do not speak a shared language tolerably well, it removes a large part of the rationale for going to a conference.

Now there are other parts to making use of a translation service, a translation service is excellent for people who consider themselves not competent enough to follow the speaker in the other language. It also may be because the speaker is not confident in speaking in English. As long as there is some ability to speak a shared language, the building of relations will still work fine.

PS I was at Wikimania, and I was happy with the translators.. They did a good job and I found that my experience of Wikimania did not suffer at all. Wikimania 2009 is certainly one of the best Wikimanias I have been to.
Thanks,
      GerardM

2009/9/14 effe iets anders <[hidden email]>
Hi,

2009/9/14 Galileo Vidoni <[hidden email]>
<snip>


I would like to say that saying you wouldn't go somewhere because it has a bilingual program is plainly, blatantly stupid. I don't know if someone did effectively say that, and if someone did so he must have misunderstood something. What I did hear were thankful compliments from both local and foreign attendees praising the simultaneous translation service and the possibility of having people present or attend conferences in their native language. This last group is way bigger that, let's suppose, no more than five people that may have misunderstood the bilingual approach and avoided registering for this year (and I still don't get to know them).

Actually I think I was one of the people who said something along these lines, but there's of course more behind it. First of all, one should realize going to Wikimania is a huge investment of money and time. To me personally, the bilingualism was a down side of the program. This was not even so much because I thought there would be less English sessions because of that, but because I had the impression that it would give a certain atmosphere where there would be a clear division in the community between the Spanish speaking people not speaking English and the English speaking people not speaking Spanish. This would be enforced by the program being partially in Spanish. So yes, I found it as a down side, and even at the conference (in the end, I was able to go, and glad I went) I think that the bilingualism caused some trouble - for example because the announcements were made in Spanish at moments almost nobody carried a translation device, or because translation devices don't work perfectly.

So... I hope this doesn't make me plainly, blatantly stupid. You can agree or disagree, but please, people make their own choices, and might have actually reasons why they think something is important or not.
 

<snip>

Excuse me, but no one can reasonably state that he would not attend a conference because it is not English-only: he may just stay within the English language activities, which were plenty and most of them in Wikimania 2009, and so did many attendees without ever having to hear a word in Spanish! What is more, what would you say to the sizeable amount of people that just had the possibility of attending their first Wikimania because content was being held and translated into the sole language they speak? I must highlight that simultaneous translation worked not only for having English sessions in Spanish: all of the presentations in Spanish were translated into English, and I punctually remember Samuel Klein telling the audience during the Q&A session that he was glad of having had the possibility to attend some particular presentations (originally) in Spanish.

Sure, there are good reasons to /have/ bilingual sessions, and to have some Spanish sessions too. However, that does /not/ mean that other people can't estimate those arguments differently then you, and might find it no longer worth while to invest the time and money to go to Wikimania. And as I explained above, what you describe was actually part of my argument. There would be a separation of the present people into two groups, and for some part that is what happened. Now to make a good analysis of the pro's and con's for that, you should be open to cricism I think, even from the unreasonable people who did not attend for whatever reason. Most of the times they might say things you find stupid, but you'd be surprised that some of them actually have a reasoning behind it.
 

<snip>


I don't know if the Gdansk team has foreseen the possibility of having sessions in Polish for 2010 --I think they didn't, but I may be happily wrong--, but I would love for example to see a bilingual English-French conference in Montréal, and a tri, quatri, polilingual Wikimania some day in the future. I think most of you will agree with me here.


Well, I for sure do not agree here. There might be bilingual sessions for practical reasons, but I do not think it should be a goal on itself. Language is a mean, not a goal. In Europe there are plenty of multilingual meetings and we call that the European Parliament. Very expensive and tiring imho.
 
The only possiblity of thinking of bilingualism as something negative may have been this year's experience being a disaster, but thankfully I think that was not the case.


I think bilingualism always carries a risk and a down side. It doesn't have to destroy the conference, but it certainly doesn't have to improve it either. I can't tell from my position with the current information whether it was actually an improvement or not of the conference.
 
Best regards,

galio
(from the former WM2009 Organizing Team)

P.S.: You may excuse my English, I certainly go better with Spanish.

Oh, your English is just fine, don't you worry :)

Best, Lodewijk

PS: I realize that not being very pro multilingualism is considered politically incorrect, rude and stupid to do in public. I'll just apologize in advance for this ;-)

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Tobias
In reply to this post by Galileo Vidoni
Hi,

Because I speak only English (and German), but no Spanish, I had no
personal advantage of bilingual aspects of the conference. Nevertheless
I support the idea of multilingual Wikimania.

It is indicative for the high personal expectations, that some people
argue they did not profit from English->Spanish translations, because
they don't speak Spanish, and therefor it is wrong to spend resources on
simultaneous translations.
If you look at how Wikimania should be, you can't only look at your
personal interests, you have to look at everyone's interests. And as a
matter of fact, not everyone potentially interested in Wikimedia speaks
English. Those people's participation entirely depends on translations.
We have to realize that the lack of multilingualism leads directly to a
decrease of diversity.

What is in my opinion arguable and has to be considered in-depth, is if
simultaneous translations are worth the effort. They require translators
and a lot of tech (which unfortunately did not always work as
anticipated). This is imho the question to evaluate: Do the benefits
(more diversity, more participation) outweigh the disadvantages (costs,
high effort)?

Concerning the "division of the community", I disagree. Of course if
there is a language barrier, you can't talk to everyone. But is it
really such a great difference if you have, let's say,
* 400 English-speaking attendees, or
* 400 English-speaking AND 200 non-English-speaking attendees?
You can't even talk to all 400 English-speaking guests (not even close),
so why does it matter? Is it a social problem to approach a person and
then turn to someone else if you find out he doesn't speak your language?

I don't think the majority of English-speaking attendees saw
bilingualism as a problem (not to speak of non-English-speakers). The
disadvantages for English-speaking guests are minor compared to both the
upsides and downsides of a multilingual conference mentioned above.

(This is just my opinion and I don't think you are stupid if you otherwise)

Regards,

Church of emacs

Ps.: Wikimania 2009 was great! It was my first Wikimania and I am
thrilled to meet everyone again next year in Gdansk! :)


Galileo Vidoni wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Casey Brown <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Galileo Vidoni <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>     > Feel free to ask WM2009 attendees :).
>     >
>
>     But that's not systematic and it's not that simple. :-)  It's a
>     multi-layered issue with the attendees, the would-be attendees *(didn't
>     some people say they wouldn't come because it was bilingual?)*, and
>     especially the organizers all having important comments.
>
>
> I know that, of course, and that's why we are working on the postmortem
> thing. But if you want to know how did the multilingual aspect of the
> conference work out, you still may have to ask actual Wikimania
> attendees. I'm sorry but "would-be" attendees, no matter the reasons
> that prevented them from participating, just can't provide feedback on
> the issue.
>
> I would like to say that saying you wouldn't go somewhere because it has
> a bilingual program is plainly, blatantly stupid. I don't know if
> someone did effectively say that, and if someone did so he must have
> misunderstood something. What I did hear were thankful compliments from
> both local and foreign attendees praising the simultaneous translation
> service and the possibility of having people present or attend
> conferences in their native language. This last group is way bigger
> that, let's suppose, no more than five people that may have
> misunderstood the bilingual approach and avoided registering for this
> year (and I still don't get to know them).
>
> Wikimania 2009's program was extremely packed up, with up to five
> parallel sessions taking place during the whole three days. We did not
> cancel any activity in English because of the activities in Spanish. The
> Program Committee, of which I was a member, did not reject any proposal
> based on language prescriptions or quotas. Spanish language content was
> just an addition, an extra possibility we planned to offer right from
> Buenos Aires' bid submission back in late 2007/early 2008. The jury
> evidently valued that, because it was one of our key proposals for
> hosting Wikimania.
>
> Excuse me, but no one can reasonably state that he would not attend a
> conference because it is not English-only: he may just stay within the
> English language activities, which were plenty and most of them in
> Wikimania 2009, and so did many attendees without ever having to hear a
> word in Spanish! What is more, what would you say to the sizeable amount
> of people that just had the possibility of attending their first
> Wikimania because content was being held and translated into the sole
> language they speak? I must highlight that simultaneous translation
> worked not only for having English sessions in Spanish: *all* of the
> presentations in Spanish were translated into English, and I punctually
> remember Samuel Klein telling the audience during the Q&A session that
> he was glad of having had the possibility to attend some particular
> presentations (originally) in Spanish.
>
> If Wikimedia's policy of multilingualism and the strategic planning
> process' aim of expanding Wikimedia's reach in the Global South are more
> than just words --and I indeed believe it--, then Wikimania should also
> progressively cease to diminish when possible its anglocentric nature.
> And it's not anglocentric, I think, by choice, as someone may
> misunderstand, but by force. We can all understand that English is the
> "first global language", that the Foundation is based in the US and that
> the biggest Wikimedia projects are those in English. But, on the other
> side, we all also know that Wikimedia projects are available in hundreds
> of languages and that the Foundation's policy is to host projects and
> contents in every possible language.
>
> It is thus clear that Wikimania 2009's multilingual approach can't be
> understood as an anomaly, as something subject to much opinion, as if
> the English-speaking population was to have the last world on where or
> not should the rest of the world have the opportunity of *also* (i.e.
> not /only/) having Wikimania in their language(s). It was not a whim
> from the organizing team but a rational, expectable, needful step for
> having future bilingual and let's hope multilingual editions of
> Wikimania. Nobody is talking of cutting out English language contents
> here, just of enabling other people, other voices and other POVs to take
> part of the conference.
>
> I don't know if the Gdansk team has foreseen the possibility of having
> sessions in Polish for 2010 --I think they didn't, but I may be happily
> wrong--, but I would love for example to see a bilingual English-French
> conference in Montréal, and a tri, quatri, polilingual Wikimania some
> day in the future. I think most of you will agree with me here.
>
> The only possiblity of thinking of bilingualism as something negative
> may have been this year's experience being a disaster, but thankfully I
> think that was not the case.
>
> Best regards,
>
> galio
> (from the former WM2009 Organizing Team)
>
> P.S.: You may excuse my English, I certainly go better with Spanish.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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Re: Wikimania 2011

Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 5:13 PM, church.of.emacs.ml
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Because I speak only English (and German), but no Spanish, I had no
> personal advantage of bilingual aspects of the conference. Nevertheless
> I support the idea of multilingual Wikimania.

They were doing bidirectional translation so you did have an
advantage. You could have gone to a Spanish-speaking talk and had it
translated for you, then asked questions in English and had them
translated to Spanish for the speaker, and then heard the reply in
English through your headset.

Anyway these rumored individuals who said they "wouldn't come because
it was bilingual" probably had mistaken prejudgements about the
implementation. Perhaps they thought a Spanish speaking person would
be standing on stage with the speaker translating every sentence the
speaker said?

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Roan Kattouw-2
2009/9/14 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <[hidden email]>:
> Anyway these rumored individuals who said they "wouldn't come because
> it was bilingual" probably had mistaken prejudgements about the
> implementation. Perhaps they thought a Spanish speaking person would
> be standing on stage with the speaker translating every sentence the
> speaker said?
>
Before the conference, I assumed correctly that there would be a track
about Latin America with most talks in Spanish, but I didn't know
there were gonna be simultaneous translations, let alone that English
talks would have Spanish translations. I don't know if this was
communicated in advance, maybe I missed that. I didn't particularly
like having the closing ceremony partly in Spanish, especially since I
wasn't expecting it and didn't grab a headset.

I'm generally supportive of the efforts to make Wikimania
multilingual, and I would support similar setups with Polish and
French (or whatever the language of the organizing city in 2011), but
I think more consideration should be taken for people who don't speak
the second language. The schedule should be more explicit about which
language(s) are spoken in which sessions, including plenary sessions,
so people don't end up attending a session they don't understand.

Also, we could do more outreach among people who speak only the second
language; I don't know what the 2009 team did about this, but when
Stallman asked (in Spanish) who didn't speak English, I saw less than
ten people raise their hands.

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

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Re: Wikimania 2011

WereSpielChequers
I'm an English speaker with almost no Spanish and this was my first
Wikimania, so I don't have a monolingual wikimania to compare it to.
To be honest I didn't use the translation service much, but it didn't
significantly intrude either. But I think the idea is great and fully
inline with the idea that we are building a global encyclopaedia.

The closing Spanish remarks by the head of Wikipedia Argentina needed
no translation - he was obviously thanking all and sundry and I'm sure
I wasn't the only "no hablo espagnol" pedian who clapped at the
appropriate places. Such speeches are better made by an unintelligible
enthusiast than a dull but all too comprehendable bore.

I think the big questions we will have to face in the future include:

1 Which languages have to be covered at every Wikimania? The de-facto
minimum is probably now host country plus English, but that might rise
in future.
2 What weighting will languages covered be given when considering bids
for future Wikimanias?
3 How many attendees who only speak a particular language does it need
to justify full or even partial translation?
4 With skype etc can we get the necessary translation done by
volunteers over the web?

WereSpielChequers

2009/9/14 Roan Kattouw <[hidden email]>:

> 2009/9/14 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <[hidden email]>:
>> Anyway these rumored individuals who said they "wouldn't come because
>> it was bilingual" probably had mistaken prejudgements about the
>> implementation. Perhaps they thought a Spanish speaking person would
>> be standing on stage with the speaker translating every sentence the
>> speaker said?
>>
> Before the conference, I assumed correctly that there would be a track
> about Latin America with most talks in Spanish, but I didn't know
> there were gonna be simultaneous translations, let alone that English
> talks would have Spanish translations. I don't know if this was
> communicated in advance, maybe I missed that. I didn't particularly
> like having the closing ceremony partly in Spanish, especially since I
> wasn't expecting it and didn't grab a headset.
>
> I'm generally supportive of the efforts to make Wikimania
> multilingual, and I would support similar setups with Polish and
> French (or whatever the language of the organizing city in 2011), but
> I think more consideration should be taken for people who don't speak
> the second language. The schedule should be more explicit about which
> language(s) are spoken in which sessions, including plenary sessions,
> so people don't end up attending a session they don't understand.
>
> Also, we could do more outreach among people who speak only the second
> language; I don't know what the 2009 team did about this, but when
> Stallman asked (in Spanish) who didn't speak English, I saw less than
> ten people raise their hands.
>
> Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>



--
WereSpielChequers

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Re: Wikimania 2011

Thomas Dalton
2009/9/15 WereSpielChequers <[hidden email]>:
> 1 Which languages have to be covered at every Wikimania? The de-facto
> minimum is probably now host country plus English, but that might rise
> in future.

We've only had the host language (if not English) represented once, I
wouldn't say that is a de-facto minimum. It might become so, but it
isn't yet.

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