Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

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Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Isabel Cueva

Attention Everyone (and please spread the word):


Early Bird Registration is now open for Wikimania 2019 on our Eventbrite page.

This discount pricing ends on May 24th so don’t delay!


Online registration will be open from today to July 30th, 2019.


For more information please visit: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration


Wikimania 2019 will be held at Stockholm University, Sweden, from 14th to 18th August 2019.


The venue will host the majority of the conference, hackathon, meetups, and pre-events.


We would like to encourage all speakers and attendees to register early and book their flight and travel as soon as possible. If you have questions about visas, please visit our wiki visa page.


If you have any questions with regard to the conference, please contact:

[hidden email]


Don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN



We hope you can join us in Stockholm this summer!



Isabel Cueva, WMF Event Program Manager

on behalf of the Wikimania ‘19 Organizing Team



--
Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager
Wikimedia Foundation


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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Isabel Cueva
Great News! The Wikimania discount registration 'early bird' price period has been extended to May 31st! Details: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Registration

Also, don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN


On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:22 AM Isabel Cueva <[hidden email]> wrote:

Attention Everyone (and please spread the word):


Early Bird Registration is now open for Wikimania 2019 on our Eventbrite page.

This discount pricing ends on May 24th so don’t delay!


Online registration will be open from today to July 30th, 2019.


For more information please visit: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration


Wikimania 2019 will be held at Stockholm University, Sweden, from 14th to 18th August 2019.


The venue will host the majority of the conference, hackathon, meetups, and pre-events.


We would like to encourage all speakers and attendees to register early and book their flight and travel as soon as possible. If you have questions about visas, please visit our wiki visa page.


If you have any questions with regard to the conference, please contact:

[hidden email]


Don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN



We hope you can join us in Stockholm this summer!



Isabel Cueva, WMF Event Program Manager

on behalf of the Wikimania ‘19 Organizing Team



--
Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager
Wikimedia Foundation



--
Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager
Wikimedia Foundation


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Fwd: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Liam Wyatt
Forwarding from Wikimedia-l:

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Isabel Cueva <[hidden email]>

Great News! The Wikimania discount registration 'early bird' price period has been extended to May 31st! Details: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Registration

Also, don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN


On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:22 AM Isabel Cueva <[hidden email]> wrote:

Attention Everyone (and please spread the word):


Early Bird Registration is now open for Wikimania 2019 on our Eventbrite page.

This discount pricing ends on May 24th so don’t delay!


Online registration will be open from today to July 30th, 2019.


For more information please visit: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration


Wikimania 2019 will be held at Stockholm University, Sweden, from 14th to 18th August 2019.


The venue will host the majority of the conference, hackathon, meetups, and pre-events.


We would like to encourage all speakers and attendees to register early and book their flight and travel as soon as possible. If you have questions about visas, please visit our wiki visa page.


If you have any questions with regard to the conference, please contact:

[hidden email]


Don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN



We hope you can join us in Stockholm this summer!



Isabel Cueva, WMF Event Program Manager

on behalf of the Wikimania ‘19 Organizing Team



--
Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager
Wikimedia Foundation



--
Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager
Wikimedia Foundation

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Isarra Yos
In reply to this post by Isabel Cueva
Are there any plans to add ticket options that are more affordable, especially for volunteers?

Even with Early Bird discount, $270 is... a lot, frankly (and after today, $375). Prior to Montreal two years ago (Cape Town last year was also similarly expensive), the registration cost of Wikimanias for Wikimedia contributors was generally in the 30-50€ range for the whole event - even Esino Lario, where food and full accommodation were included in the default ticket, also had a 'simple' ticket option skipping this that was still in the usual price range. Is there any chance we could bring this practice back? Or... something?

This isn't even just that I can't afford this (which I can't - the registration costs more than the plane ticket would), a lot of us probably aren't going to be able to. Wikimania isn't like most conferences, where attendees are being sent by their companies or organisation; many of us who would consider going are individuals. Not only do we not necessarily have any larger organisations to fund our attendance, we're largely not getting paid for any of this, either - we're donating our time to be a part of this movement, and now we're expected to pay hundreds of dollars, as community members, to attend an event that used to be specifically for the community?

This is especially going to be a major turnoff to any newcomers, as it precludes people just registering and checking it out, seeing what's up, unless they have a lot of money to throw around on things they're not sure about. And based on the conversations I've had with various newcomers over the years who have been drawn into such events (previous wikimanias, hackathons, other conferences) and been highly engaged and inspired by their experiences, this is apt to be a major loss.

I'll also note that while scholarships do resolve this issue for some people, the scholarship budget is limited, and also generally focussed on travel and accommodation costs for folks who would otherwise not be able to get there, not attendance costs for people who can get there just fine but would prefer to spend that 250€ on something else, like a couple of months of groceries. There wasn't a 'just cover the registration fee' option with the scholarship applications at all. Not that... there should be?

Basically, would it be possible to maybe get some more options here?

-I

On 24/05/2019 23:33, Isabel Cueva wrote:
Great News! The Wikimania discount registration 'early bird' price period has been extended to May 31st! Details: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Registration

Also, don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN


On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:22 AM Isabel Cueva <[hidden email]> wrote:

Attention Everyone (and please spread the word):


Early Bird Registration is now open for Wikimania 2019 on our Eventbrite page.

This discount pricing ends on May 24th so don’t delay!

Online registration will be open from today to July 30th, 2019.


For more information please visit: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration


Wikimania 2019 will be held at Stockholm University, Sweden, from 14th to 18th August 2019.


The venue will host the majority of the conference, hackathon, meetups, and pre-events.


We would like to encourage all speakers and attendees to register early and book their flight and travel as soon as possible. If you have questions about visas, please visit our wiki visa page.


If you have any questions with regard to the conference, please contact:

[hidden email]


Don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN



We hope you can join us in Stockholm this summer!



Isabel Cueva, WMF Event Program Manager

on behalf of the Wikimania ‘19 Organizing Team



--
Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager
Wikimedia Foundation



--
Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager
Wikimedia Foundation


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l



_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Jan Ainali
If you volunteer for at least 8 hours, the conference pass is free: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Volunteer

/Jan

31 maj 2019 23:32:50 +02:00, skrev Isarra Yos <[hidden email]>:
Are there any plans to add ticket options that are more affordable, especially for volunteers?

Even with Early Bird discount, $270 is... a lot, frankly (and after today, $375). Prior to Montreal two years ago (Cape Town last year was also similarly expensive), the registration cost of Wikimanias for Wikimedia contributors was generally in the 30-50€ range for the whole event - even Esino Lario, where food and full accommodation were included in the default ticket, also had a 'simple' ticket option skipping this that was still in the usual price range. Is there any chance we could bring this practice back? Or... something?

This isn't even just that I can't afford this (which I can't - the registration costs more than the plane ticket would), a lot of us probably aren't going to be able to. Wikimania isn't like most conferences, where attendees are being sent by their companies or organisation; many of us who would consider going are individuals. Not only do we not necessarily have any larger organisations to fund our attendance, we're largely not getting paid for any of this, either - we're donating our time to be a part of this movement, and now we're expected to pay hundreds of dollars, as community members, to attend an event that used to be specifically for the community?

This is especially going to be a major turnoff to any newcomers, as it precludes people just registering and checking it out, seeing what's up, unless they have a lot of money to throw around on things they're not sure about. And based on the conversations I've had with various newcomers over the years who have been drawn into such events (previous wikimanias, hackathons, other conferences) and been highly engaged and inspired by their experiences, this is apt to be a major loss.

I'll also note that while scholarships do resolve this issue for some people, the scholarship budget is limited, and also generally focussed on travel and accommodation costs for folks who would otherwise not be able to get there, not attendance costs for people who can get there just fine but would prefer to spend that 250€ on something else, like a couple of months of groceries. There wasn't a 'just cover the registration fee' option with the scholarship applications at all. Not that... there should be?

Basically, would it be possible to maybe get some more options here?

-I

On 24/05/2019 23:33, Isabel Cueva wrote:
Great News! The Wikimania discount registration 'early bird' price period has been extended to May 31st! Details: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Registration

Also, don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN


On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:22 AM Isabel Cueva <[hidden email]> wrote:

Attention Everyone (and please spread the word):


Early Bird Registration is now open for Wikimania 2019 on our Eventbrite page.

This discount pricing ends on May 24th so don’t delay!


Online registration will be open from today to July 30th, 2019.


For more information please visit: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration


Wikimania 2019 will be held at Stockholm University, Sweden, from 14th to 18th August 2019.


The venue will host the majority of the conference, hackathon, meetups, and pre-events.


We would like to encourage all speakers and attendees to register early and book their flight and travel as soon as possible. If you have questions about visas, please visit our wiki visa page.


If you have any questions with regard to the conference, please contact:

[hidden email]


Don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN



We hope you can join us in Stockholm this summer!



Isabel Cueva, WMF Event Program Manager

on behalf of the Wikimania ‘19 Organizing Team



--


Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager


--


Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l



_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Isarra Yos
I'd really prefer people be volunteering for these things because they want to and they value what they're doing, not because they have to in order to do something else. It's good that those who do care to volunteer here don't need to pay the high fee on top of that, but it doesn't resolve the issue of such a high fee being there in the first place.

-I

On 31/05/2019 21:41, Jan Ainali wrote:
If you volunteer for at least 8 hours, the conference pass is free: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Volunteer

/Jan

31 maj 2019 23:32:50 +02:00, skrev Isarra Yos [hidden email]:
Are there any plans to add ticket options that are more affordable, especially for volunteers?

Even with Early Bird discount, $270 is... a lot, frankly (and after today, $375). Prior to Montreal two years ago (Cape Town last year was also similarly expensive), the registration cost of Wikimanias for Wikimedia contributors was generally in the 30-50€ range for the whole event - even Esino Lario, where food and full accommodation were included in the default ticket, also had a 'simple' ticket option skipping this that was still in the usual price range. Is there any chance we could bring this practice back? Or... something?

This isn't even just that I can't afford this (which I can't - the registration costs more than the plane ticket would), a lot of us probably aren't going to be able to. Wikimania isn't like most conferences, where attendees are being sent by their companies or organisation; many of us who would consider going are individuals. Not only do we not necessarily have any larger organisations to fund our attendance, we're largely not getting paid for any of this, either - we're donating our time to be a part of this movement, and now we're expected to pay hundreds of dollars, as community members, to attend an event that used to be specifically for the community?

This is especially going to be a major turnoff to any newcomers, as it precludes people just registering and checking it out, seeing what's up, unless they have a lot of money to throw around on things they're not sure about. And based on the conversations I've had with various newcomers over the years who have been drawn into such events (previous wikimanias, hackathons, other conferences) and been highly engaged and inspired by their experiences, this is apt to be a major loss.

I'll also note that while scholarships do resolve this issue for some people, the scholarship budget is limited, and also generally focussed on travel and accommodation costs for folks who would otherwise not be able to get there, not attendance costs for people who can get there just fine but would prefer to spend that 250€ on something else, like a couple of months of groceries. There wasn't a 'just cover the registration fee' option with the scholarship applications at all. Not that... there should be?

Basically, would it be possible to maybe get some more options here?

-I

On 24/05/2019 23:33, Isabel Cueva wrote:
Great News! The Wikimania discount registration 'early bird' price period has been extended to May 31st! Details: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Registration

Also, don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN


On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:22 AM Isabel Cueva <[hidden email]> wrote:

Attention Everyone (and please spread the word):


Early Bird Registration is now open for Wikimania 2019 on our Eventbrite page.

This discount pricing ends on May 24th so don’t delay!


Online registration will be open from today to July 30th, 2019.


For more information please visit: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration


Wikimania 2019 will be held at Stockholm University, Sweden, from 14th to 18th August 2019.


The venue will host the majority of the conference, hackathon, meetups, and pre-events.


We would like to encourage all speakers and attendees to register early and book their flight and travel as soon as possible. If you have questions about visas, please visit our wiki visa page.


If you have any questions with regard to the conference, please contact:

[hidden email]


Don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN



We hope you can join us in Stockholm this summer!



Isabel Cueva, WMF Event Program Manager

on behalf of the Wikimania ‘19 Organizing Team



--


Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager


--


Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l



_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l



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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Effe iets anders
This is not a new or surprising discussion, and thanks for bringing it to the table. While $270 (conference + preconference) is a lot of money, you do get a 5-day conference with lunches, refreshments, reception and probably a dinner or two. That sounds like quite a modest price, compared to most other events of similar length. I suspect that each additional attendee does not bring in any cash, or actually costs the organizers money, overall. 
I would even argue that for by far most people, the registration cost will not be the limiting factor - other components of the trip would likely be (unless they are local to Stockholm, maybe). The travel to Stockholm alone will outweigh this fee by a factor of 2, maybe 4 for most, and a week of accommodation with the remaining dinners will probably set you back at least the same amount (if you go very low budget). 

There are two ways that our movement can try to address this hurdle: one way would be to reduce the price even further for everyone, the other is to provide help for some people to overcome all these financial hurdles. I personally prefer that we spend more on scholarships (travel, accommodation and registration) rather than even further subsidizing the registration fee for all other participants. And we do indeed spend quite an amount and effort on making scholarships available to community members - without any requirement to volunteer at the conference. Given a limited budget, I can imagine that the organizers must make choices. 

I'll let the organizers respond themselves what their actual reasoning was, but given what I've seen of past Wikimania's and their budgets, I can't say I share your suggested approach to resolving this tension. 

Best,
Lodewijk

On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 7:42 PM Isarra Yos <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'd really prefer people be volunteering for these things because they want to and they value what they're doing, not because they have to in order to do something else. It's good that those who do care to volunteer here don't need to pay the high fee on top of that, but it doesn't resolve the issue of such a high fee being there in the first place.

-I

On 31/05/2019 21:41, Jan Ainali wrote:
If you volunteer for at least 8 hours, the conference pass is free: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Volunteer

/Jan

31 maj 2019 23:32:50 +02:00, skrev Isarra Yos [hidden email]:
Are there any plans to add ticket options that are more affordable, especially for volunteers?

Even with Early Bird discount, $270 is... a lot, frankly (and after today, $375). Prior to Montreal two years ago (Cape Town last year was also similarly expensive), the registration cost of Wikimanias for Wikimedia contributors was generally in the 30-50€ range for the whole event - even Esino Lario, where food and full accommodation were included in the default ticket, also had a 'simple' ticket option skipping this that was still in the usual price range. Is there any chance we could bring this practice back? Or... something?

This isn't even just that I can't afford this (which I can't - the registration costs more than the plane ticket would), a lot of us probably aren't going to be able to. Wikimania isn't like most conferences, where attendees are being sent by their companies or organisation; many of us who would consider going are individuals. Not only do we not necessarily have any larger organisations to fund our attendance, we're largely not getting paid for any of this, either - we're donating our time to be a part of this movement, and now we're expected to pay hundreds of dollars, as community members, to attend an event that used to be specifically for the community?

This is especially going to be a major turnoff to any newcomers, as it precludes people just registering and checking it out, seeing what's up, unless they have a lot of money to throw around on things they're not sure about. And based on the conversations I've had with various newcomers over the years who have been drawn into such events (previous wikimanias, hackathons, other conferences) and been highly engaged and inspired by their experiences, this is apt to be a major loss.

I'll also note that while scholarships do resolve this issue for some people, the scholarship budget is limited, and also generally focussed on travel and accommodation costs for folks who would otherwise not be able to get there, not attendance costs for people who can get there just fine but would prefer to spend that 250€ on something else, like a couple of months of groceries. There wasn't a 'just cover the registration fee' option with the scholarship applications at all. Not that... there should be?

Basically, would it be possible to maybe get some more options here?

-I

On 24/05/2019 23:33, Isabel Cueva wrote:
Great News! The Wikimania discount registration 'early bird' price period has been extended to May 31st! Details: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Registration

Also, don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN


On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:22 AM Isabel Cueva <[hidden email]> wrote:

Attention Everyone (and please spread the word):


Early Bird Registration is now open for Wikimania 2019 on our Eventbrite page.

This discount pricing ends on May 24th so don’t delay!


Online registration will be open from today to July 30th, 2019.


For more information please visit: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration


Wikimania 2019 will be held at Stockholm University, Sweden, from 14th to 18th August 2019.


The venue will host the majority of the conference, hackathon, meetups, and pre-events.


We would like to encourage all speakers and attendees to register early and book their flight and travel as soon as possible. If you have questions about visas, please visit our wiki visa page.


If you have any questions with regard to the conference, please contact:

[hidden email]


Don’t forget: If you want to make a presentation, run a workshop, or display a poster during Wikimania, the Call for Submissions is NOW OPEN



We hope you can join us in Stockholm this summer!



Isabel Cueva, WMF Event Program Manager

on behalf of the Wikimania ‘19 Organizing Team



--


Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager


--


Isabel Cueva
Event Program Manager

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l



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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Gergő Tisza
On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 1:12 PM effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would even argue that for by far most people, the registration cost will not be the limiting factor - other components of the trip would likely be (unless they are local to Stockholm, maybe). The travel to Stockholm alone will outweigh this fee by a factor of 2, maybe 4 for most, and a week of accommodation with the remaining dinners will probably set you back at least the same amount (if you go very low budget). 

Those estimates are way off. Most of our volunteer base is in Europe, where flight costs are typically below $100; you can find accomodation in the immediate vicinity of the conference for $200 (and you can probably go way cheaper with hostels, or by being in a more distant part of the city); if you actually want to go very low budget and skip on restaurants / pubs / etc, food costs are minimal (and obviously people do need to eat outside of Stockholm as well, so it's not really an extra spending). So the conference fee would be about half of your total costs.
 
There are two ways that our movement can try to address this hurdle: one way would be to reduce the price even further for everyone, the other is to provide help for some people to overcome all these financial hurdles. I personally prefer that we spend more on scholarships (travel, accommodation and registration) rather than even further subsidizing the registration fee for all other participants.

So are we actually spending more on scholarships?
There is no consistent reporting on scholarships (nor any other aspect of Wikimania for that matter) but some wiki archeology gives:
- 2012: 87 full + 47 partial per [1]
- 2013: 62 full + 18 partial (which apparently somehow adds up to 86...) per [2]
- 2014: 109 per [3]
- 2015: 110 per [4]
- 2016: 88 full + 35 partial + 6 additional (whatever that means) per [5] ([6] claims 99 full)
- 2017: 81 full + 17 partial per [5]
- 2018: 125 full + 16 partial per [5]
- 2019: 96 full + 20 partial per [5]
So it seems like the higher price of the conference was indeed offset somewhat by a slightly higher number of scholarships in 2018, but that is not the case for 2019. (Granted this is WMF only, and a significant part of scholarships tend to come from affiliates, but it's even harder to find data on that.)


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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Effe iets anders


On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 5:20 AM Tisza Gergő <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 1:12 PM effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would even argue that for by far most people, the registration cost will not be the limiting factor - other components of the trip would likely be (unless they are local to Stockholm, maybe). The travel to Stockholm alone will outweigh this fee by a factor of 2, maybe 4 for most, and a week of accommodation with the remaining dinners will probably set you back at least the same amount (if you go very low budget). 

Those estimates are way off. Most of our volunteer base is in Europe, where flight costs are typically below $100; you can find accomodation in the immediate vicinity of the conference for $200 (and you can probably go way cheaper with hostels, or by being in a more distant part of the city); if you actually want to go very low budget and skip on restaurants / pubs / etc, food costs are minimal (and obviously people do need to eat outside of Stockholm as well, so it's not really an extra spending). So the conference fee would be about half of your total costs.

That depends what you're using as your base, of course. I'm trying to think a little beyond our traditional community, which is why I was talking about 'people'. Even if we would take a highly Eurocentric approach and only think about Europeans without any visa requirements, living nearby airports that are well-connected to Stockholm (mind you, these are quite a few assumptions we're making), we would be talking about airfare of often more than $100, accommodation for $200 would still be on the low end of the spectrum (six nights, hostels cost $31 per night, although there are a few further away that cost less), you would still have to include all kinds of smaller expenses though (dinners that will definitely more expensive than at home. Are you planning to take public transportation or walk for a few hours each day? Will you join in evening events and buy a drink? Do you plan to get a data plan for your phone?) And let's not forget that you have to take a week off to be able to attend the conference and pre-conference. 
All in all, I am pretty confident that even for these well-connected Europeans, the conference fee will be a smaller part of the amount that traveling will cost them. Finding a cheaper hotel than the recommended hotel (at $115/night) would definitely do a good job at that.
 
 
There are two ways that our movement can try to address this hurdle: one way would be to reduce the price even further for everyone, the other is to provide help for some people to overcome all these financial hurdles. I personally prefer that we spend more on scholarships (travel, accommodation and registration) rather than even further subsidizing the registration fee for all other participants.

So are we actually spending more on scholarships?
There is no consistent reporting on scholarships (nor any other aspect of Wikimania for that matter) but some wiki archeology gives:
- 2012: 87 full + 47 partial per [1]
- 2013: 62 full + 18 partial (which apparently somehow adds up to 86...) per [2]
- 2014: 109 per [3]
- 2015: 110 per [4]
- 2016: 88 full + 35 partial + 6 additional (whatever that means) per [5] ([6] claims 99 full)
- 2017: 81 full + 17 partial per [5]
- 2018: 125 full + 16 partial per [5]
- 2019: 96 full + 20 partial per [5]
So it seems like the higher price of the conference was indeed offset somewhat by a slightly higher number of scholarships in 2018, but that is not the case for 2019. (Granted this is WMF only, and a significant part of scholarships tend to come from affiliates, but it's even harder to find data on that.)

(I should probably disclose that I'm a partial scholarship recipient, although I doubt it would affect my argument if I weren't)
This focus on scholarships is not a new thing - I'm happy that the WMF has chosen to support them for a long time now. And indeed there is a significant bump from mostly European chapters that help volunteers to attend (a big chunk of them being from their own country). 

You're claiming that this year is a higher rate than usual, I don't think this is actually true. Some context:
- 2016: 500 euro, but this included accommodation and full board
- 2017: 315 CAD (~233 USD)
- 2018: 275 USD

In that sense, this fee is quite in range from the past few years (I was not motivated enough to go back to earlier years). Some years were indeed cheaper, especially if located in a country with lower incomes, and when the express purpose was to get more locals/regionals to attend (Mexico, Hong Kong) that might otherwise not have been able to. 

My point is: if we're not willing to spend even more donor money on this conference than we already do, we need to make choices. You could choose to make the conference less fancy (although the opportunities to cut costs are limited in that field, I understand), you could stop offering lunch and refreshments or you could cut in scholarships (which is a huge chunk of our budget as a movement regarding this conference). I wouldn't mind making the event 'less fancy' if that would actually bring down the cost significantly, although all attempts at that in the past were met with complaints too. But I don't think it is feasible to cut on things that make up the main budget items. Unfortunately, I'm currently unable to find reliable and publicly available budgets for Wikimania from recent years, so I have to work from recollection. 
 

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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Mykola Kozlenko
In reply to this post by Gergő Tisza
Hello,

One point on 2018 scholarships: in 2017, a non-negligible number of Wikimedians (something between 10 and 20 I think) did not get Canadian visas. WMF decided to automatically grant them 2018 scholarships, basically re-using their scholarship budget. Removing this outlier, we should be consistently at 110-120 scholarships per year since 2014 which makes sense.

On the main point of this discussion, 275 USD starts to be somewhat prohibiting. Personally in my case I had to fill in in a hurry as I absolutely wanted not to pay extra 100 USD for nothing. Yes, this is not that much expensive compared to professional conferences that are usually starting from 1000 USD, but this is mainly a volunteer conference, and we are paying with our own money.

I would honestly be interested to know how this sum is spread between different budget lines. How much is spent on the venue, how much on lunches, how much on parties etc. For instance, I might have wanted not to pay for the party if it is worth over 100 USD, or not to pay for lunches if they are at 30 USD etc...

Best regards,
Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Tisza Gergő" <[hidden email]>
Дата: 1 червня 2019, 14:41:14

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 1:12 PM effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would even argue that for by far most people, the registration cost will not be the limiting factor - other components of the trip would likely be (unless they are local to Stockholm, maybe). The travel to Stockholm alone will outweigh this fee by a factor of 2, maybe 4 for most, and a week of accommodation with the remaining dinners will probably set you back at least the same amount (if you go very low budget). 

Those estimates are way off. Most of our volunteer base is in Europe, where flight costs are typically below $100; you can find accomodation in the immediate vicinity of the conference for $200 (and you can probably go way cheaper with hostels, or by being in a more distant part of the city); if you actually want to go very low budget and skip on restaurants / pubs / etc, food costs are minimal (and obviously people do need to eat outside of Stockholm as well, so it's not really an extra spending). So the conference fee would be about half of your total costs.
 
There are two ways that our movement can try to address this hurdle: one way would be to reduce the price even further for everyone, the other is to provide help for some people to overcome all these financial hurdles. I personally prefer that we spend more on scholarships (travel, accommodation and registration) rather than even further subsidizing the registration fee for all other participants.

So are we actually spending more on scholarships?
There is no consistent reporting on scholarships (nor any other aspect of Wikimania for that matter) but some wiki archeology gives:
- 2012: 87 full + 47 partial per [1]
- 2013: 62 full + 18 partial (which apparently somehow adds up to 86...) per [2]
- 2014: 109 per [3]
- 2015: 110 per [4]
- 2016: 88 full + 35 partial + 6 additional (whatever that means) per [5] ([6] claims 99 full)
- 2017: 81 full + 17 partial per [5]
- 2018: 125 full + 16 partial per [5]
- 2019: 96 full + 20 partial per [5]
So it seems like the higher price of the conference was indeed offset somewhat by a slightly higher number of scholarships in 2018, but that is not the case for 2019. (Granted this is WMF only, and a significant part of scholarships tend to come from affiliates, but it's even harder to find data on that.)

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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Kerry Raymond
In reply to this post by Effe iets anders

Indeed! It is Euro-centric thinking. If I booked a flight today to come to Wikimania, it would cost me AUD 2218 (USD 1539). If you look at the whole-of-event cost (that is, not worrying about who is paying for any particular component), then for an international event, the flights costs are the dominant cost for any destination you choose.

 

Regarding unbundling the coast, I would agree though that it should be possible to unbundle some of the costs. I know from running events myself that when using a hotel as the conference venue, that generally they want to do a package deal of room hire and catering. If you try to unbundle these costs to make the meals optional for some attendees, they will then price the separate components at a higher rate so that it becomes a financial disincentive to the conference overall to take that option. So that kind of unbundling is unlikely to work as it allows some people to opt-out and save money at the expense of those who choose to opt in (that is, it’s not neutral on other people if you opt out). But you can more easily make the offsite activities a separate charge as they are generally not bound up in the main venue deal, although again there may be economies of scale in the pricing for a larger number of guests or if you want exclusive use of the venue, you may have to commit to a certain number of people attending etc. So again it’s not a completely neutral matter but as the offsite parties are not the primary reason for attending Wikimaina, then such events can be more reasonably positioned as an “optional” extra without subsidisation from others. Also give  the wide range of people who attend Wikimania, I can imagine the off-site parties are not to everyone else’s taste in any case (as much as I enjoy a glass of alcohol, I realise that participants from other cultures/religions may not want to participate in a nightclub style party), so if we want Wikimania to be inclusive, perhaps we should make these events optional for that reason alone.

 

Kerry

 

From: Wikimania-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of effe iets anders
Sent: Sunday, 2 June 2019 5:44 AM
To: Tisza Gergő <[hidden email]>
Cc: Wikimania general list (open subscription) <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

 

 

 

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 5:20 AM Tisza Gergő <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 1:12 PM effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:

I would even argue that for by far most people, the registration cost will not be the limiting factor - other components of the trip would likely be (unless they are local to Stockholm, maybe). The travel to Stockholm alone will outweigh this fee by a factor of 2, maybe 4 for most, and a week of accommodation with the remaining dinners will probably set you back at least the same amount (if you go very low budget). 

 

Those estimates are way off. Most of our volunteer base is in Europe, where flight costs are typically below $100; you can find accomodation in the immediate vicinity of the conference for $200 (and you can probably go way cheaper with hostels, or by being in a more distant part of the city); if you actually want to go very low budget and skip on restaurants / pubs / etc, food costs are minimal (and obviously people do need to eat outside of Stockholm as well, so it's not really an extra spending). So the conference fee would be about half of your total costs.

 

That depends what you're using as your base, of course. I'm trying to think a little beyond our traditional community, which is why I was talking about 'people'. Even if we would take a highly Eurocentric approach and only think about Europeans without any visa requirements, living nearby airports that are well-connected to Stockholm (mind you, these are quite a few assumptions we're making), we would be talking about airfare of often more than $100, accommodation for $200 would still be on the low end of the spectrum (six nights, hostels cost $31 per night, although there are a few further away that cost less), you would still have to include all kinds of smaller expenses though (dinners that will definitely more expensive than at home. Are you planning to take public transportation or walk for a few hours each day? Will you join in evening events and buy a drink? Do you plan to get a data plan for your phone?) And let's not forget that you have to take a week off to be able to attend the conference and pre-conference. 

All in all, I am pretty confident that even for these well-connected Europeans, the conference fee will be a smaller part of the amount that traveling will cost them. Finding a cheaper hotel than the recommended hotel (at $115/night) would definitely do a good job at that.

 

 

There are two ways that our movement can try to address this hurdle: one way would be to reduce the price even further for everyone, the other is to provide help for some people to overcome all these financial hurdles. I personally prefer that we spend more on scholarships (travel, accommodation and registration) rather than even further subsidizing the registration fee for all other participants.

 

So are we actually spending more on scholarships?

There is no consistent reporting on scholarships (nor any other aspect of Wikimania for that matter) but some wiki archeology gives:

- 2012: 87 full + 47 partial per [1]

- 2013: 62 full + 18 partial (which apparently somehow adds up to 86...) per [2]

- 2014: 109 per [3]

- 2015: 110 per [4]

- 2016: 88 full + 35 partial + 6 additional (whatever that means) per [5] ([6] claims 99 full)

- 2017: 81 full + 17 partial per [5]

- 2018: 125 full + 16 partial per [5]

- 2019: 96 full + 20 partial per [5]

So it seems like the higher price of the conference was indeed offset somewhat by a slightly higher number of scholarships in 2018, but that is not the case for 2019. (Granted this is WMF only, and a significant part of scholarships tend to come from affiliates, but it's even harder to find data on that.)

 

(I should probably disclose that I'm a partial scholarship recipient, although I doubt it would affect my argument if I weren't)

This focus on scholarships is not a new thing - I'm happy that the WMF has chosen to support them for a long time now. And indeed there is a significant bump from mostly European chapters that help volunteers to attend (a big chunk of them being from their own country). 

 

You're claiming that this year is a higher rate than usual, I don't think this is actually true. Some context:

- 2016: 500 euro, but this included accommodation and full board

- 2017: 315 CAD (~233 USD)

- 2018: 275 USD

 

In that sense, this fee is quite in range from the past few years (I was not motivated enough to go back to earlier years). Some years were indeed cheaper, especially if located in a country with lower incomes, and when the express purpose was to get more locals/regionals to attend (Mexico, Hong Kong) that might otherwise not have been able to. 

 

My point is: if we're not willing to spend even more donor money on this conference than we already do, we need to make choices. You could choose to make the conference less fancy (although the opportunities to cut costs are limited in that field, I understand), you could stop offering lunch and refreshments or you could cut in scholarships (which is a huge chunk of our budget as a movement regarding this conference). I wouldn't mind making the event 'less fancy' if that would actually bring down the cost significantly, although all attempts at that in the past were met with complaints too. But I don't think it is feasible to cut on things that make up the main budget items. Unfortunately, I'm currently unable to find reliable and publicly available budgets for Wikimania from recent years, so I have to work from recollection. 

 


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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Isarra Yos
In reply to this post by Effe iets anders
On 01/06/2019 19:44, effe iets anders wrote:
> You're claiming that this year is a higher rate than usual, I don't
> think this is actually true. Some context:
> - 2016: 500 euro, but this included accommodation and full board
> - 2017: 315 CAD (~233 USD)
> - 2018: 275 USD

2016 is indeed when it first went up, but even then the 500€ value was
fairly consistent with how much one could expect the whole thing to cost
when including fairly decent food and accommodation. What was concerning
was that then the cost stayed relatively high, without any of the
included stuff - if the 250€ is only the registration price, there's not
much to decouple. For instance, is there any food to not include? Lunch
being included has pretty much always been standard, for good reason,
and we're not doing breakfast and dinner for everyone in the first
place, are we? (As I recall, 2015 did include dinner, though, which may
indicate part of why it was also more expensive.) And even in terms of
fanciness, I'm not sure how much value that has, or if they even have
been meaningfully more so than they used to be. Comparing to the
Wikiconference USA/NA events I attended some of the same years (I don't
think any were over $50, definitely not more than $100), the Wikimanias
were mostly just... bigger. Higher volume.

For reference, prior wikimanias cost the following for Wikimedians:

2015: $95
2014: £50.00
2013: $45
2012: $35
2011: $45
2010: 30-40€
2009: $45
2008: $45
2007: $40-60
2006: $90
2005 I can't find, but it was the first and thus organised a bit differently

So what happened? How is 250€ now not a lot of money? The first
Wikimania I attended was in 2012 and my entire budget was $500, which
was basically my holiday budget for the year. I was a student from a
poor background, and a lot of our contributors are students. Quite a few
of our contributors aren't exactly upper class, or from countries with
great conversion rates. Should we really be requiring them to get
special support now to even register for the main event for what is
supposed to be a world-wide, inclusive movement?

250€ is a quite a lot of money. Other things to attend may still cost
around the same or more, but if we also need to spend it on those
things, we're not going to have that money left to spend on the
registration as well.

-I


https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wikimania-2014-registration-11063436035
https://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration (and the same page
on other years)
https://wikimania2006.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Registration&oldid=5931


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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Mykola Kozlenko
In 2015, 2017 and 2018 we had Wikimanias in really upscale hotels. I can perfectly understand why renting conference rooms and arranging catering for all participants in a Sheraton or a Hilton is expensive. For instance, Montréal experience in 2017 was pretty much worse 233 USD indeed given that we were in a centrally-located Sheraton.

This year we are having a Wikimania on a university campus. Yes, Stockholm is an expensive city, but Montréal is not really cheap either. I can't really understand how a university campus in Stockholm is more than 50% more expensive than a Sheraton in Montréal.

I don't say I want these costs unbundled, I am happy to pay for the full experience, but with a price tag that high I would really like to know where all this money will go.

Best regards,
Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Isarra Yos" <[hidden email]>
Дата: 2 червня 2019, 18:19:17

On 01/06/2019 19:44, effe iets anders wrote:
> You're claiming that this year is a higher rate than usual, I don't 
> think this is actually true. Some context:
> - 2016: 500 euro, but this included accommodation and full board
> - 2017: 315 CAD (~233 USD)
> - 2018: 275 USD

2016 is indeed when it first went up, but even then the 500€ value was 
fairly consistent with how much one could expect the whole thing to cost 
when including fairly decent food and accommodation. What was concerning 
was that then the cost stayed relatively high, without any of the 
included stuff - if the 250€ is only the registration price, there's not 
much to decouple. For instance, is there any food to not include? Lunch 
being included has pretty much always been standard, for good reason, 
and we're not doing breakfast and dinner for everyone in the first 
place, are we? (As I recall, 2015 did include dinner, though, which may 
indicate part of why it was also more expensive.) And even in terms of 
fanciness, I'm not sure how much value that has, or if they even have 
been meaningfully more so than they used to be. Comparing to the 
Wikiconference USA/NA events I attended some of the same years (I don't 
think any were over $50, definitely not more than $100), the Wikimanias 
were mostly just... bigger. Higher volume.

For reference, prior wikimanias cost the following for Wikimedians:

2015: $95
2014: £50.00
2013: $45
2012: $35
2011: $45
2010: 30-40€
2009: $45
2008: $45
2007: $40-60
2006: $90
2005 I can't find, but it was the first and thus organised a bit differently

So what happened? How is 250€ now not a lot of money? The first 
Wikimania I attended was in 2012 and my entire budget was $500, which 
was basically my holiday budget for the year. I was a student from a 
poor background, and a lot of our contributors are students. Quite a few 
of our contributors aren't exactly upper class, or from countries with 
great conversion rates. Should we really be requiring them to get 
special support now to even register for the main event for what is 
supposed to be a world-wide, inclusive movement?

250€ is a quite a lot of money. Other things to attend may still cost 
around the same or more, but if we also need to spend it on those 
things, we're not going to have that money left to spend on the 
registration as well.

-I


https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wikimania-2014-registration-11063436035
https://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration (and the same page 
on other years)
https://wikimania2006.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Registration&oldid=5931


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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Gnangarra
As has in previous years been suggested if we want Wikimania to be truly inclusive and encourage more people to attend then the WMF should just extend the fundraising by a week and use that to subsidise the event making it more accessible to everyone. 1,000 particiants at 250€ is just an extra 250,000€ to collect, collecting enough to allow 200 scholarships would enable greater participation from more communities.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 03:16, Mykola Kozlenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
In 2015, 2017 and 2018 we had Wikimanias in really upscale hotels. I can perfectly understand why renting conference rooms and arranging catering for all participants in a Sheraton or a Hilton is expensive. For instance, Montréal experience in 2017 was pretty much worse 233 USD indeed given that we were in a centrally-located Sheraton.

This year we are having a Wikimania on a university campus. Yes, Stockholm is an expensive city, but Montréal is not really cheap either. I can't really understand how a university campus in Stockholm is more than 50% more expensive than a Sheraton in Montréal.

I don't say I want these costs unbundled, I am happy to pay for the full experience, but with a price tag that high I would really like to know where all this money will go.

Best regards,
Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Isarra Yos" <[hidden email]>
Дата: 2 червня 2019, 18:19:17

On 01/06/2019 19:44, effe iets anders wrote:
> You're claiming that this year is a higher rate than usual, I don't 
> think this is actually true. Some context:
> - 2016: 500 euro, but this included accommodation and full board
> - 2017: 315 CAD (~233 USD)
> - 2018: 275 USD

2016 is indeed when it first went up, but even then the 500€ value was 
fairly consistent with how much one could expect the whole thing to cost 
when including fairly decent food and accommodation. What was concerning 
was that then the cost stayed relatively high, without any of the 
included stuff - if the 250€ is only the registration price, there's not 
much to decouple. For instance, is there any food to not include? Lunch 
being included has pretty much always been standard, for good reason, 
and we're not doing breakfast and dinner for everyone in the first 
place, are we? (As I recall, 2015 did include dinner, though, which may 
indicate part of why it was also more expensive.) And even in terms of 
fanciness, I'm not sure how much value that has, or if they even have 
been meaningfully more so than they used to be. Comparing to the 
Wikiconference USA/NA events I attended some of the same years (I don't 
think any were over $50, definitely not more than $100), the Wikimanias 
were mostly just... bigger. Higher volume.

For reference, prior wikimanias cost the following for Wikimedians:

2015: $95
2014: £50.00
2013: $45
2012: $35
2011: $45
2010: 30-40€
2009: $45
2008: $45
2007: $40-60
2006: $90
2005 I can't find, but it was the first and thus organised a bit differently

So what happened? How is 250€ now not a lot of money? The first 
Wikimania I attended was in 2012 and my entire budget was $500, which 
was basically my holiday budget for the year. I was a student from a 
poor background, and a lot of our contributors are students. Quite a few 
of our contributors aren't exactly upper class, or from countries with 
great conversion rates. Should we really be requiring them to get 
special support now to even register for the main event for what is 
supposed to be a world-wide, inclusive movement?

250€ is a quite a lot of money. Other things to attend may still cost 
around the same or more, but if we also need to spend it on those 
things, we're not going to have that money left to spend on the 
registration as well.

-I


https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wikimania-2014-registration-11063436035
https://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration (and the same page 
on other years)
https://wikimania2006.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Registration&oldid=5931


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[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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--
Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), Never Again: Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8, UWAP, 2017.  Order here.


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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Paulo Santos Perneta
In reply to this post by Gergő Tisza
Flight costs between Lisbon and Stockholm were indeed about 100€ many months ago. However, when the scholarships were out, anyone receiving a partial scholarship or wanting to go on their own anyway would have to pay over 400€ already, just for the flight .

Paulo 

A sábado, 1 de jun de 2019, 13:41, Tisza Gergő <[hidden email]> escreveu:
On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 1:12 PM effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would even argue that for by far most people, the registration cost will not be the limiting factor - other components of the trip would likely be (unless they are local to Stockholm, maybe). The travel to Stockholm alone will outweigh this fee by a factor of 2, maybe 4 for most, and a week of accommodation with the remaining dinners will probably set you back at least the same amount (if you go very low budget). 

Those estimates are way off. Most of our volunteer base is in Europe, where flight costs are typically below $100; you can find accomodation in the immediate vicinity of the conference for $200 (and you can probably go way cheaper with hostels, or by being in a more distant part of the city); if you actually want to go very low budget and skip on restaurants / pubs / etc, food costs are minimal (and obviously people do need to eat outside of Stockholm as well, so it's not really an extra spending). So the conference fee would be about half of your total costs.
 
There are two ways that our movement can try to address this hurdle: one way would be to reduce the price even further for everyone, the other is to provide help for some people to overcome all these financial hurdles. I personally prefer that we spend more on scholarships (travel, accommodation and registration) rather than even further subsidizing the registration fee for all other participants.

So are we actually spending more on scholarships?
There is no consistent reporting on scholarships (nor any other aspect of Wikimania for that matter) but some wiki archeology gives:
- 2012: 87 full + 47 partial per [1]
- 2013: 62 full + 18 partial (which apparently somehow adds up to 86...) per [2]
- 2014: 109 per [3]
- 2015: 110 per [4]
- 2016: 88 full + 35 partial + 6 additional (whatever that means) per [5] ([6] claims 99 full)
- 2017: 81 full + 17 partial per [5]
- 2018: 125 full + 16 partial per [5]
- 2019: 96 full + 20 partial per [5]
So it seems like the higher price of the conference was indeed offset somewhat by a slightly higher number of scholarships in 2018, but that is not the case for 2019. (Granted this is WMF only, and a significant part of scholarships tend to come from affiliates, but it's even harder to find data on that.)

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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Paulo Santos Perneta
In reply to this post by Gnangarra
For us in Portugal joining wikimedia, even in a relatively close city like Stockholm, without a scholarship stands at a minimum cost of 1000€, which really is a prohibitive cost for the great majority of people here, corresponding to way more than a regular full month wage (two minimum wages, actually).

25% of that cost corresponding to fees that even wikimedia volunteers have to pay does seem quite obscene to me.

If a significant amount of the cost is going to fancy luxury hotels and parties - those last ones barred to wikimedians below 18 years, in this years event - this really should be something to be reviewed. Also, I agree that it is quite difficult to understand such an high fee in this year wikimania, where most of the stuff seems to be organized on campus.

Paulo 

A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 00:32, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> escreveu:
As has in previous years been suggested if we want Wikimania to be truly inclusive and encourage more people to attend then the WMF should just extend the fundraising by a week and use that to subsidise the event making it more accessible to everyone. 1,000 particiants at 250€ is just an extra 250,000€ to collect, collecting enough to allow 200 scholarships would enable greater participation from more communities.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 03:16, Mykola Kozlenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
In 2015, 2017 and 2018 we had Wikimanias in really upscale hotels. I can perfectly understand why renting conference rooms and arranging catering for all participants in a Sheraton or a Hilton is expensive. For instance, Montréal experience in 2017 was pretty much worse 233 USD indeed given that we were in a centrally-located Sheraton.

This year we are having a Wikimania on a university campus. Yes, Stockholm is an expensive city, but Montréal is not really cheap either. I can't really understand how a university campus in Stockholm is more than 50% more expensive than a Sheraton in Montréal.

I don't say I want these costs unbundled, I am happy to pay for the full experience, but with a price tag that high I would really like to know where all this money will go.

Best regards,
Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Isarra Yos" <[hidden email]>
Дата: 2 червня 2019, 18:19:17

On 01/06/2019 19:44, effe iets anders wrote:
> You're claiming that this year is a higher rate than usual, I don't 
> think this is actually true. Some context:
> - 2016: 500 euro, but this included accommodation and full board
> - 2017: 315 CAD (~233 USD)
> - 2018: 275 USD

2016 is indeed when it first went up, but even then the 500€ value was 
fairly consistent with how much one could expect the whole thing to cost 
when including fairly decent food and accommodation. What was concerning 
was that then the cost stayed relatively high, without any of the 
included stuff - if the 250€ is only the registration price, there's not 
much to decouple. For instance, is there any food to not include? Lunch 
being included has pretty much always been standard, for good reason, 
and we're not doing breakfast and dinner for everyone in the first 
place, are we? (As I recall, 2015 did include dinner, though, which may 
indicate part of why it was also more expensive.) And even in terms of 
fanciness, I'm not sure how much value that has, or if they even have 
been meaningfully more so than they used to be. Comparing to the 
Wikiconference USA/NA events I attended some of the same years (I don't 
think any were over $50, definitely not more than $100), the Wikimanias 
were mostly just... bigger. Higher volume.

For reference, prior wikimanias cost the following for Wikimedians:

2015: $95
2014: £50.00
2013: $45
2012: $35
2011: $45
2010: 30-40€
2009: $45
2008: $45
2007: $40-60
2006: $90
2005 I can't find, but it was the first and thus organised a bit differently

So what happened? How is 250€ now not a lot of money? The first 
Wikimania I attended was in 2012 and my entire budget was $500, which 
was basically my holiday budget for the year. I was a student from a 
poor background, and a lot of our contributors are students. Quite a few 
of our contributors aren't exactly upper class, or from countries with 
great conversion rates. Should we really be requiring them to get 
special support now to even register for the main event for what is 
supposed to be a world-wide, inclusive movement?

250€ is a quite a lot of money. Other things to attend may still cost 
around the same or more, but if we also need to spend it on those 
things, we're not going to have that money left to spend on the 
registration as well.

-I


https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wikimania-2014-registration-11063436035
https://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration (and the same page 
on other years)
https://wikimania2006.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Registration&oldid=5931


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


--
Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), Never Again: Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8, UWAP, 2017.  Order here.

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[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Paulo Santos Perneta
Sorry, in the first sentence it should read "wikimania" , not "Wikimedia" 

A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 11:19, Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]> escreveu:
For us in Portugal joining wikimedia, even in a relatively close city like Stockholm, without a scholarship stands at a minimum cost of 1000€, which really is a prohibitive cost for the great majority of people here, corresponding to way more than a regular full month wage (two minimum wages, actually).

25% of that cost corresponding to fees that even wikimedia volunteers have to pay does seem quite obscene to me.

If a significant amount of the cost is going to fancy luxury hotels and parties - those last ones barred to wikimedians below 18 years, in this years event - this really should be something to be reviewed. Also, I agree that it is quite difficult to understand such an high fee in this year wikimania, where most of the stuff seems to be organized on campus.

Paulo 

A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 00:32, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> escreveu:
As has in previous years been suggested if we want Wikimania to be truly inclusive and encourage more people to attend then the WMF should just extend the fundraising by a week and use that to subsidise the event making it more accessible to everyone. 1,000 particiants at 250€ is just an extra 250,000€ to collect, collecting enough to allow 200 scholarships would enable greater participation from more communities.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 03:16, Mykola Kozlenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
In 2015, 2017 and 2018 we had Wikimanias in really upscale hotels. I can perfectly understand why renting conference rooms and arranging catering for all participants in a Sheraton or a Hilton is expensive. For instance, Montréal experience in 2017 was pretty much worse 233 USD indeed given that we were in a centrally-located Sheraton.

This year we are having a Wikimania on a university campus. Yes, Stockholm is an expensive city, but Montréal is not really cheap either. I can't really understand how a university campus in Stockholm is more than 50% more expensive than a Sheraton in Montréal.

I don't say I want these costs unbundled, I am happy to pay for the full experience, but with a price tag that high I would really like to know where all this money will go.

Best regards,
Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Isarra Yos" <[hidden email]>
Дата: 2 червня 2019, 18:19:17

On 01/06/2019 19:44, effe iets anders wrote:
> You're claiming that this year is a higher rate than usual, I don't 
> think this is actually true. Some context:
> - 2016: 500 euro, but this included accommodation and full board
> - 2017: 315 CAD (~233 USD)
> - 2018: 275 USD

2016 is indeed when it first went up, but even then the 500€ value was 
fairly consistent with how much one could expect the whole thing to cost 
when including fairly decent food and accommodation. What was concerning 
was that then the cost stayed relatively high, without any of the 
included stuff - if the 250€ is only the registration price, there's not 
much to decouple. For instance, is there any food to not include? Lunch 
being included has pretty much always been standard, for good reason, 
and we're not doing breakfast and dinner for everyone in the first 
place, are we? (As I recall, 2015 did include dinner, though, which may 
indicate part of why it was also more expensive.) And even in terms of 
fanciness, I'm not sure how much value that has, or if they even have 
been meaningfully more so than they used to be. Comparing to the 
Wikiconference USA/NA events I attended some of the same years (I don't 
think any were over $50, definitely not more than $100), the Wikimanias 
were mostly just... bigger. Higher volume.

For reference, prior wikimanias cost the following for Wikimedians:

2015: $95
2014: £50.00
2013: $45
2012: $35
2011: $45
2010: 30-40€
2009: $45
2008: $45
2007: $40-60
2006: $90
2005 I can't find, but it was the first and thus organised a bit differently

So what happened? How is 250€ now not a lot of money? The first 
Wikimania I attended was in 2012 and my entire budget was $500, which 
was basically my holiday budget for the year. I was a student from a 
poor background, and a lot of our contributors are students. Quite a few 
of our contributors aren't exactly upper class, or from countries with 
great conversion rates. Should we really be requiring them to get 
special support now to even register for the main event for what is 
supposed to be a world-wide, inclusive movement?

250€ is a quite a lot of money. Other things to attend may still cost 
around the same or more, but if we also need to spend it on those 
things, we're not going to have that money left to spend on the 
registration as well.

-I


https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wikimania-2014-registration-11063436035
https://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration (and the same page 
on other years)
https://wikimania2006.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Registration&oldid=5931


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


--
Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), Never Again: Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8, UWAP, 2017.  Order here.

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Kerry Raymond

Well, as someone who has worked at a number of universities and organised events at others, I am well aware that many universities are short of cash and expect to be paid by others to use their facilities so I would not assume that being “on campus” is a free or low-cost venue for Wikimania. A university *may *decide that an event is sufficiently in-line with their own goals that they may reduce/waive the cost, but holding events at  a university does incur real additional costs to the university, such as cleaning and security at a minimum, so it is not unfair to charge for their use.

 

Kerry

 

From: Wikimania-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paulo Santos Perneta
Sent: Monday, 3 June 2019 8:21 PM
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

 

Sorry, in the first sentence it should read "wikimania" , not "Wikimedia" 

A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 11:19, Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]> escreveu:

For us in Portugal joining wikimedia, even in a relatively close city like Stockholm, without a scholarship stands at a minimum cost of 1000€, which really is a prohibitive cost for the great majority of people here, corresponding to way more than a regular full month wage (two minimum wages, actually).

 

25% of that cost corresponding to fees that even wikimedia volunteers have to pay does seem quite obscene to me.

 

If a significant amount of the cost is going to fancy luxury hotels and parties - those last ones barred to wikimedians below 18 years, in this years event - this really should be something to be reviewed. Also, I agree that it is quite difficult to understand such an high fee in this year wikimania, where most of the stuff seems to be organized on campus.

 

Paulo 

 

A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 00:32, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> escreveu:

As has in previous years been suggested if we want Wikimania to be truly inclusive and encourage more people to attend then the WMF should just extend the fundraising by a week and use that to subsidise the event making it more accessible to everyone. 1,000 particiants at 250€ is just an extra 250,000€ to collect, collecting enough to allow 200 scholarships would enable greater participation from more communities.

 

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 03:16, Mykola Kozlenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

In 2015, 2017 and 2018 we had Wikimanias in really upscale hotels. I can perfectly understand why renting conference rooms and arranging catering for all participants in a Sheraton or a Hilton is expensive. For instance, Montréal experience in 2017 was pretty much worse 233 USD indeed given that we were in a centrally-located Sheraton.

 

This year we are having a Wikimania on a university campus. Yes, Stockholm is an expensive city, but Montréal is not really cheap either. I can't really understand how a university campus in Stockholm is more than 50% more expensive than a Sheraton in Montréal.

 

I don't say I want these costs unbundled, I am happy to pay for the full experience, but with a price tag that high I would really like to know where all this money will go.

 

Best regards,

Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Isarra Yos" <[hidden email]>
Дата: 2 червня 2019, 18:19:17

 

On 01/06/2019 19:44, effe iets anders wrote:
> You're claiming that this year is a higher rate than usual, I don't 
> think this is actually true. Some context:
> - 2016: 500 euro, but this included accommodation and full board
> - 2017: 315 CAD (~233 USD)
> - 2018: 275 USD
 
2016 is indeed when it first went up, but even then the 500€ value was 
fairly consistent with how much one could expect the whole thing to cost 
when including fairly decent food and accommodation. What was concerning 
was that then the cost stayed relatively high, without any of the 
included stuff - if the 250€ is only the registration price, there's not 
much to decouple. For instance, is there any food to not include? Lunch 
being included has pretty much always been standard, for good reason, 
and we're not doing breakfast and dinner for everyone in the first 
place, are we? (As I recall, 2015 did include dinner, though, which may 
indicate part of why it was also more expensive.) And even in terms of 
fanciness, I'm not sure how much value that has, or if they even have 
been meaningfully more so than they used to be. Comparing to the 
Wikiconference USA/NA events I attended some of the same years (I don't 
think any were over $50, definitely not more than $100), the Wikimanias 
were mostly just... bigger. Higher volume.
 
For reference, prior wikimanias cost the following for Wikimedians:
 
2015: $95
2014: £50.00
2013: $45
2012: $35
2011: $45
2010: 30-40€
2009: $45
2008: $45
2007: $40-60
2006: $90
2005 I can't find, but it was the first and thus organised a bit differently
 
So what happened? How is 250€ now not a lot of money? The first 
Wikimania I attended was in 2012 and my entire budget was $500, which 
was basically my holiday budget for the year. I was a student from a 
poor background, and a lot of our contributors are students. Quite a few 
of our contributors aren't exactly upper class, or from countries with 
great conversion rates. Should we really be requiring them to get 
special support now to even register for the main event for what is 
supposed to be a world-wide, inclusive movement?
 
250€ is a quite a lot of money. Other things to attend may still cost 
around the same or more, but if we also need to spend it on those 
things, we're not going to have that money left to spend on the 
registration as well.
 
-I
 
 
https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wikimania-2014-registration-11063436035
https://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration (and the same page 
on other years)
https://wikimania2006.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Registration&oldid=5931
 
 
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


 

--

Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), Never Again: Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8, UWAP, 2017.  Order here.

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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[hidden email]
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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Paulo Santos Perneta
We are talking about a very dramatic increase in the fee in the last few years, not about universities doing events for free. And it is quite hard to understand how come an event on campus as a fee similar to the ones organized at a five star hotels. 

Paulo 

A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 22:55, Kerry Raymond <[hidden email]> escreveu:

Well, as someone who has worked at a number of universities and organised events at others, I am well aware that many universities are short of cash and expect to be paid by others to use their facilities so I would not assume that being “on campus” is a free or low-cost venue for Wikimania. A university *may *decide that an event is sufficiently in-line with their own goals that they may reduce/waive the cost, but holding events at  a university does incur real additional costs to the university, such as cleaning and security at a minimum, so it is not unfair to charge for their use.

 

Kerry

 

From: Wikimania-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paulo Santos Perneta
Sent: Monday, 3 June 2019 8:21 PM
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

 

Sorry, in the first sentence it should read "wikimania" , not "Wikimedia" 

A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 11:19, Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]> escreveu:

For us in Portugal joining wikimedia, even in a relatively close city like Stockholm, without a scholarship stands at a minimum cost of 1000€, which really is a prohibitive cost for the great majority of people here, corresponding to way more than a regular full month wage (two minimum wages, actually).

 

25% of that cost corresponding to fees that even wikimedia volunteers have to pay does seem quite obscene to me.

 

If a significant amount of the cost is going to fancy luxury hotels and parties - those last ones barred to wikimedians below 18 years, in this years event - this really should be something to be reviewed. Also, I agree that it is quite difficult to understand such an high fee in this year wikimania, where most of the stuff seems to be organized on campus.

 

Paulo 

 

A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 00:32, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> escreveu:

As has in previous years been suggested if we want Wikimania to be truly inclusive and encourage more people to attend then the WMF should just extend the fundraising by a week and use that to subsidise the event making it more accessible to everyone. 1,000 particiants at 250€ is just an extra 250,000€ to collect, collecting enough to allow 200 scholarships would enable greater participation from more communities.

 

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 03:16, Mykola Kozlenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

In 2015, 2017 and 2018 we had Wikimanias in really upscale hotels. I can perfectly understand why renting conference rooms and arranging catering for all participants in a Sheraton or a Hilton is expensive. For instance, Montréal experience in 2017 was pretty much worse 233 USD indeed given that we were in a centrally-located Sheraton.

 

This year we are having a Wikimania on a university campus. Yes, Stockholm is an expensive city, but Montréal is not really cheap either. I can't really understand how a university campus in Stockholm is more than 50% more expensive than a Sheraton in Montréal.

 

I don't say I want these costs unbundled, I am happy to pay for the full experience, but with a price tag that high I would really like to know where all this money will go.

 

Best regards,

Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Isarra Yos" <[hidden email]>
Дата: 2 червня 2019, 18:19:17

 

On 01/06/2019 19:44, effe iets anders wrote:
> You're claiming that this year is a higher rate than usual, I don't 
> think this is actually true. Some context:
> - 2016: 500 euro, but this included accommodation and full board
> - 2017: 315 CAD (~233 USD)
> - 2018: 275 USD
 
2016 is indeed when it first went up, but even then the 500€ value was 
fairly consistent with how much one could expect the whole thing to cost 
when including fairly decent food and accommodation. What was concerning 
was that then the cost stayed relatively high, without any of the 
included stuff - if the 250€ is only the registration price, there's not 
much to decouple. For instance, is there any food to not include? Lunch 
being included has pretty much always been standard, for good reason, 
and we're not doing breakfast and dinner for everyone in the first 
place, are we? (As I recall, 2015 did include dinner, though, which may 
indicate part of why it was also more expensive.) And even in terms of 
fanciness, I'm not sure how much value that has, or if they even have 
been meaningfully more so than they used to be. Comparing to the 
Wikiconference USA/NA events I attended some of the same years (I don't 
think any were over $50, definitely not more than $100), the Wikimanias 
were mostly just... bigger. Higher volume.
 
For reference, prior wikimanias cost the following for Wikimedians:
 
2015: $95
2014: £50.00
2013: $45
2012: $35
2011: $45
2010: 30-40€
2009: $45
2008: $45
2007: $40-60
2006: $90
2005 I can't find, but it was the first and thus organised a bit differently
 
So what happened? How is 250€ now not a lot of money? The first 
Wikimania I attended was in 2012 and my entire budget was $500, which 
was basically my holiday budget for the year. I was a student from a 
poor background, and a lot of our contributors are students. Quite a few 
of our contributors aren't exactly upper class, or from countries with 
great conversion rates. Should we really be requiring them to get 
special support now to even register for the main event for what is 
supposed to be a world-wide, inclusive movement?
 
250€ is a quite a lot of money. Other things to attend may still cost 
around the same or more, but if we also need to spend it on those 
things, we're not going to have that money left to spend on the 
registration as well.
 
-I
 
 
https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wikimania-2014-registration-11063436035
https://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration (and the same page 
on other years)
https://wikimania2006.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Registration&oldid=5931
 
 
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


 

--

Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), Never Again: Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8, UWAP, 2017.  Order here.

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

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Re: Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

Wilfredor
There must be a coherent explanation. It is possible that there is an alliance that we can not see between WMF and the university so that WMF receives the surplus in donations that will be cleanly used.

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019, 22:01 Paulo Santos Perneta, <[hidden email]> wrote:
We are talking about a very dramatic increase in the fee in the last few years, not about universities doing events for free. And it is quite hard to understand how come an event on campus as a fee similar to the ones organized at a five star hotels. 

Paulo 

A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 22:55, Kerry Raymond <[hidden email]> escreveu:

Well, as someone who has worked at a number of universities and organised events at others, I am well aware that many universities are short of cash and expect to be paid by others to use their facilities so I would not assume that being “on campus” is a free or low-cost venue for Wikimania. A university *may *decide that an event is sufficiently in-line with their own goals that they may reduce/waive the cost, but holding events at  a university does incur real additional costs to the university, such as cleaning and security at a minimum, so it is not unfair to charge for their use.

 

Kerry

 

From: Wikimania-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paulo Santos Perneta
Sent: Monday, 3 June 2019 8:21 PM
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2019 Early Bird Registration is Now Open!

 

Sorry, in the first sentence it should read "wikimania" , not "Wikimedia" 

A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 11:19, Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]> escreveu:

For us in Portugal joining wikimedia, even in a relatively close city like Stockholm, without a scholarship stands at a minimum cost of 1000€, which really is a prohibitive cost for the great majority of people here, corresponding to way more than a regular full month wage (two minimum wages, actually).

 

25% of that cost corresponding to fees that even wikimedia volunteers have to pay does seem quite obscene to me.

 

If a significant amount of the cost is going to fancy luxury hotels and parties - those last ones barred to wikimedians below 18 years, in this years event - this really should be something to be reviewed. Also, I agree that it is quite difficult to understand such an high fee in this year wikimania, where most of the stuff seems to be organized on campus.

 

Paulo 

 

A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 00:32, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> escreveu:

As has in previous years been suggested if we want Wikimania to be truly inclusive and encourage more people to attend then the WMF should just extend the fundraising by a week and use that to subsidise the event making it more accessible to everyone. 1,000 particiants at 250€ is just an extra 250,000€ to collect, collecting enough to allow 200 scholarships would enable greater participation from more communities.

 

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 03:16, Mykola Kozlenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

In 2015, 2017 and 2018 we had Wikimanias in really upscale hotels. I can perfectly understand why renting conference rooms and arranging catering for all participants in a Sheraton or a Hilton is expensive. For instance, Montréal experience in 2017 was pretty much worse 233 USD indeed given that we were in a centrally-located Sheraton.

 

This year we are having a Wikimania on a university campus. Yes, Stockholm is an expensive city, but Montréal is not really cheap either. I can't really understand how a university campus in Stockholm is more than 50% more expensive than a Sheraton in Montréal.

 

I don't say I want these costs unbundled, I am happy to pay for the full experience, but with a price tag that high I would really like to know where all this money will go.

 

Best regards,

Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Isarra Yos" <[hidden email]>
Дата: 2 червня 2019, 18:19:17

 

On 01/06/2019 19:44, effe iets anders wrote:
> You're claiming that this year is a higher rate than usual, I don't 
> think this is actually true. Some context:
> - 2016: 500 euro, but this included accommodation and full board
> - 2017: 315 CAD (~233 USD)
> - 2018: 275 USD
 
2016 is indeed when it first went up, but even then the 500€ value was 
fairly consistent with how much one could expect the whole thing to cost 
when including fairly decent food and accommodation. What was concerning 
was that then the cost stayed relatively high, without any of the 
included stuff - if the 250€ is only the registration price, there's not 
much to decouple. For instance, is there any food to not include? Lunch 
being included has pretty much always been standard, for good reason, 
and we're not doing breakfast and dinner for everyone in the first 
place, are we? (As I recall, 2015 did include dinner, though, which may 
indicate part of why it was also more expensive.) And even in terms of 
fanciness, I'm not sure how much value that has, or if they even have 
been meaningfully more so than they used to be. Comparing to the 
Wikiconference USA/NA events I attended some of the same years (I don't 
think any were over $50, definitely not more than $100), the Wikimanias 
were mostly just... bigger. Higher volume.
 
For reference, prior wikimanias cost the following for Wikimedians:
 
2015: $95
2014: £50.00
2013: $45
2012: $35
2011: $45
2010: 30-40€
2009: $45
2008: $45
2007: $40-60
2006: $90
2005 I can't find, but it was the first and thus organised a bit differently
 
So what happened? How is 250€ now not a lot of money? The first 
Wikimania I attended was in 2012 and my entire budget was $500, which 
was basically my holiday budget for the year. I was a student from a 
poor background, and a lot of our contributors are students. Quite a few 
of our contributors aren't exactly upper class, or from countries with 
great conversion rates. Should we really be requiring them to get 
special support now to even register for the main event for what is 
supposed to be a world-wide, inclusive movement?
 
250€ is a quite a lot of money. Other things to attend may still cost 
around the same or more, but if we also need to spend it on those 
things, we're not going to have that money left to spend on the 
registration as well.
 
-I
 
 
https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wikimania-2014-registration-11063436035
https://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration (and the same page 
on other years)
https://wikimania2006.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Registration&oldid=5931
 
 
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Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), Never Again: Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8, UWAP, 2017.  Order here.

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