Wikimania scholarships

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Wikimania scholarships

Mark (Markie)
Hi there

Wikimania 2008 has just released the scholarships info page, and we would appreciate translations of the document, which can be found at http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships

Many thanks

Mark

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Re: Wikimania scholarships

Casey Brown-3
Hello all!

This is a slight poke, ;-) it seems it has been about a week since
Mark sent this e-mail and we have translations in only es, fr, and
zh-hans; thanks to those who translated those!

For those languages that have not yet been translated, the
Scholarships page is an important document that should be translated
into as many languages as possible so that users can find out
information in *your* languages and can visit Wikimania on a
scholarship even if they don't speak English well! :-)

The translations page is at
<http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Translation/Scholarships>
and help is available on IRC at #wikimania2008 or
#wikimedia-translators (Freenode network) and on the Scholarships talk
page <http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Scholarships>.

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Mark (Markie)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi there
>
> Wikimania 2008 has just released the scholarships info page, and we would
> appreciate translations of the document, which can be found at
> http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships
>
> Many thanks
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Translators-l mailing list
>  [hidden email]
>  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>
>



--
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Cbrown1023

---
Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to
this address will probably get lost.

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Re: Wikimania scholarships

Brianna Laugher
On 26/03/2008, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello all!
>
>  This is a slight poke, ;-) it seems it has been about a week since
>  Mark sent this e-mail and we have translations in only es, fr, and
>  zh-hans; thanks to those who translated those!

Hm IANAT (I am not a translator), but maybe you should wait until
pages are complete before asking for translations. The dates, and the
application form, the two most important parts, are not available yet.
What is the point of translating something that is near useless in its
current form? Better to wait for the complete document first, I would
guess.

cheers
Brianna

--
They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment:
http://modernthings.org/

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Re: Wikimania scholarships

alain_desilets
In reply to this post by Casey Brown-3
I sent an invitation to the 98 people registered on wiki-translation.

   www.wiki-translation.com

Hopefully it will help.

While we are on the topic of volunteer translation of wiki content, I would like to mention the Collaborative Translation and Terminology workshop that I am trying to organise for WikiSym 2008 (Porto, Portugal, Sept 8-10):

   http://www.wiki-translation.com/Collaborative+Translation+Workshop+at+WikiSym+2008&bl=y

If any of you are interested in participating, please put your name in the "People who would like to attend and or present" section of the above page.

Alain Désilets
WikiSym 2008 Publicity Chair
Wiki-translation moderator

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:translators-l-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Casey Brown
> Sent: March 25, 2008 9:11 PM
> To: Wikimedia Translators
> Subject: Re: [Translators-l] Wikimania scholarships
>
> Hello all!
>
> This is a slight poke, ;-) it seems it has been about a week since Mark
> sent this e-mail and we have translations in only es, fr, and zh-hans;
> thanks to those who translated those!
>
> For those languages that have not yet been translated, the Scholarships
> page is an important document that should be translated into as many
> languages as possible so that users can find out information in *your*
> languages and can visit Wikimania on a scholarship even if they don't
> speak English well! :-)
>
> The translations page is at
> <http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Translation/Scholarsh
> ips>
> and help is available on IRC at #wikimania2008 or #wikimedia-
> translators (Freenode network) and on the Scholarships talk page
> <http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Scholarships>.
>
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Mark (Markie)
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi there
> >
> > Wikimania 2008 has just released the scholarships info page, and we
> > would appreciate translations of the document, which can be found at
> > http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships
> >
> > Many thanks
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  Translators-l mailing list
> >  [hidden email]
> >  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
> ---
> Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails
> sent to this address will probably get lost.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l

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Re: Wikimania scholarships

alain_desilets
In reply to this post by Brianna Laugher
> On 26/03/2008, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hello all!
> >
> >  This is a slight poke, ;-) it seems it has been about a week since
> >  Mark sent this e-mail and we have translations in only es, fr, and
> >  zh-hans; thanks to those who translated those!
>
> Hm IANAT (I am not a translator), but maybe you should wait until
> pages are complete before asking for translations. The dates, and the
> application form, the two most important parts, are not available yet.
> What is the point of translating something that is near useless in its
> current form? Better to wait for the complete document first, I would
> guess.

This is the way that translation is done in traditional environments. Documents are first written in a master language (usually English), and only when this master version reaches a "final" stage will translation proceed.

However, this is not a very wiki-way of doing things. One of the strengths of wiki is that it allows small early drafts of documents to be published very early, and allow the community to grow and improve it in an organic fashion.

I agree though that given current translation support in wiki engines like MediaWiki, the traditional way may be more appropriate. One of my carreer goals right now is to change that and figure out what tools and processes might allow translation in a more organic wiki-way:

"Translation the Wiki Way":
   http://www.wikisym.org/ws2006/proceedings/p19.pdf

I'm happy to report that we are not far from this in my opinion. For example, the TikiWiki community is currently implementing features to support this sort of thing, and the Mozilla Foundation is seriously considering using those features to enable the collaborative authoring and translation of the Firefox documentation in multiple languages:

http://www.wiki-translation.com/Cross+Lingual+Wiki+Engine+Project&bl=y


Sorry if this sounds like a plug, but I couldn't resist.



----
Alain Désilets, MASc
Agent de recherches/Research Officer
Institut de technologie de l'information du CNRC /
NRC Institute for Information Technology

[hidden email]
Tél/Tel (613) 990-2813
Facsimile/télécopieur: (613) 952-7151

Conseil national de recherches Canada, M50, 1200 chemin Montréal,
Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0R6
National Research Council Canada, M50, 1200 Montreal Rd., Ottawa, ON
K1A 0R6

Gouvernement du Canada | Government of Canada
 


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Re: Wikimania scholarships

KIZU Naoko
Hi, Alain and all

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Desilets, Alain
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> > On 26/03/2008, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  > > Hello all!
>  > >
>  > >  This is a slight poke, ;-) it seems it has been about a week since
>  > >  Mark sent this e-mail and we have translations in only es, fr, and
>  > >  zh-hans; thanks to those who translated those!
>  >
>  > Hm IANAT (I am not a translator), but maybe you should wait until
>  > pages are complete before asking for translations. The dates, and the
>  > application form, the two most important parts, are not available yet.
>  > What is the point of translating something that is near useless in its
>  > current form? Better to wait for the complete document first, I would
>  > guess.
>
>  This is the way that translation is done in traditional environments. Documents are first written in a master language (usually English), and only when this master version reaches a "final" stage will translation proceed.
>
>  However, this is not a very wiki-way of doing things. One of the strengths of wiki is that it allows small early drafts of documents to be published very early, and allow the community to grow and improve it in an organic fashion.

Totally agreed. We here face two different cultural traditions - one
is quite old and another is young - conflicted and trying to get a new
horizon to land. Again, traditional request for translation come only
after the source material done and it has its virtue as Brianna
suggested: it is a standard way of industrical age to order a
contractor something. It works very well, since translation is somehow
artisan works, need a time, concentration and of course expertise.

On the other hand it is far from Wiki Way, anything can be altered
swiftly and people may be aware there will be no "final stable
version". Its strength is exactly in this point - anyone can edit,
modified and it is determinative. It is open, and that is its virtue.
I expect all of us - who enjoy wiki collaboration know its potential
and weakness. It fits to handle things very up-to-date and quickly
modified - Wikinewsies and Wikipedians may know it very well - and in
the case data will be soon fixed but not yet and the other parts are
on the contrary fixed and ready to go into the next step - in this
context translation.

>  I agree though that given current translation support in wiki engines like MediaWiki, the traditional way may be more appropriate.

I am not sure MediaWiki is an architecture which fits more to the
traditional way but the general tendency of translators seems to be
inclined to the traditional way. I rembemer some translators were
upset or complained when they saw the source materials unready or
modified after we have asked them to translate. In this reason I tend
to avoid asking for translation when the draft is still edited, but
personally I don't mind to work on ongoing materials - is that exactly
what we are doing on content translations from one wiki to the oter?
> One of my carreer goals right now is to change that and figure out what tools and processes might allow translation in a more organic wiki-way:
>
>  "Translation the Wiki Way":
>    http://www.wikisym.org/ws2006/proceedings/p19.pdf

Thanks for putting it to this list. I recommend you particular who
leads a team as a coordinator to give a look. You may enjoy it and
find it interesting as I did so.

>  I'm happy to report that we are not far from this in my opinion. For example, the TikiWiki community is currently implementing features to support this sort of thing, and the Mozilla Foundation is seriously considering using those features to enable the collaborative authoring and translation of the Firefox documentation in multiple languages:
>
>  http://www.wiki-translation.com/Cross+Lingual+Wiki+Engine+Project&bl=y
>
>
>  Sorry if this sounds like a plug, but I couldn't resist.

No problem, and thanks for giving nice foods of thought strongly
relevant to wiki and translation :)

--
KIZU Naoko
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Britty (in Japanese)
Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD

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Re: Wikimania scholarships

alain_desilets
> Alain wrote:
> >  I agree though that given current translation support in wiki
> engines like MediaWiki, the traditional way may be more appropriate.
>
> Aphaia answered:
>
> I am not sure MediaWiki is an architecture which fits more to the
> traditional way but the general tendency of translators seems to be
> inclined to the traditional way. I rembemer some translators were
upset
> or complained when they saw the source materials unready or modified
> after we have asked them to translate. In this reason I tend to avoid
> asking for translation when the draft is still edited, but personally
I
> don't mind to work on ongoing materials - is that exactly what we are
> doing on content translations from one wiki to the oter?

Yes, the translation culture is a bit entrenched in that way of
thinking, but this is fast changing. I have been talking to translators
and terminologist for the last year or so, about how massive
collaboration will change their profession. For example:

  "Translation Wikfied: How will Massive Online Collaboration Impact the
World of Translation?"
  http://www.aslib.com/conferences/TranslationWikified.pdf

Over and over again, I have been agreeably surprised by translators'
openness to this new phenomenon. So I think they will embrace it soon.
They just don't quite know how at the moment.

That said, I still think that the tools for supporting this are not
there yet. For example, in MediaWiki, it can be difficult to figure out
what changes needs to be translated from say, the English to the Chinese
version. It's doable, but it involves a lot of tedious manual browsing
of the history of both linguistic versions of the page. None of those
issues are insurmountable, and we are trying to deal with them in the
Tiki CLWE project I mentioned earlier.

> >  Sorry if this sounds like a plug, but I couldn't resist.
>
> No problem, and thanks for giving nice foods of thought strongly
> relevant to wiki and translation :)

Thank you for taking it into consideration.

Alain

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