Wikimedia UK

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
17 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Wikimedia UK

Nathan Awrich
Alison Wheeler announced today the impending dissolution of Wiki Educational
Resources Ltd (Wikimedia UK). It isn't clear from her message why she
determined to fold it instead of pass on leadership to those interested. [1]

All other considerations aside, the Wikimedia community owes Alison and the
other members of the WMUK board of directors a debt of thanks for their
efforts over the last two years. More than anything else, its clear that
creating and managing a charity as a volunteer in the United Kingdom is a
difficult undertaking.

Nathan

[1]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2008-August/thread.html
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Thomas Dalton
2008/8/28 Nathan <[hidden email]>:
> Alison Wheeler announced today the impending dissolution of Wiki Educational
> Resources Ltd (Wikimedia UK). It isn't clear from her message why she
> determined to fold it instead of pass on leadership to those interested. [1]

She mentioned the company has debts incurred through the setup and no
assets to pay them off - starting from scratch may well be the best
option in that light (I don't know the extent of the debts).

> All other considerations aside, the Wikimedia community owes Alison and the
> other members of the WMUK board of directors a debt of thanks for their
> efforts over the last two years. More than anything else, its clear that
> creating and managing a charity as a volunteer in the United Kingdom is a
> difficult undertaking.

But an undertaking we, the UK community, are committed to. Discussions
regarding a new chapter are already underway.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Geoffrey Plourde
In reply to this post by Nathan Awrich
It would appear that the company is facing bankruptcy and has been having problems with the authorities. Does she have the authority to dissolve it?
Geoff Plourde



----- Original Message ----
From: Nathan <[hidden email]>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 7:58:03 AM
Subject: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia UK

Alison Wheeler announced today the impending dissolution of Wiki Educational
Resources Ltd (Wikimedia UK). It isn't clear from her message why she
determined to fold it instead of pass on leadership to those interested. [1]

All other considerations aside, the Wikimedia community owes Alison and the
other members of the WMUK board of directors a debt of thanks for their
efforts over the last two years. More than anything else, its clear that
creating and managing a charity as a volunteer in the United Kingdom is a
difficult undertaking.

Nathan

[1]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2008-August/thread.html
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l



     
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Michael Snow-3
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
Thomas Dalton wrote:

> 2008/8/28 Nathan <[hidden email]>:
>  
>> Alison Wheeler announced today the impending dissolution of Wiki Educational
>> Resources Ltd (Wikimedia UK). It isn't clear from her message why she
>> determined to fold it instead of pass on leadership to those interested. [1]
>>    
> She mentioned the company has debts incurred through the setup and no
> assets to pay them off - starting from scratch may well be the best
> option in that light (I don't know the extent of the debts).
>  
She described it elsewhere as "some small liabilities", so I assume
they're not too major. Nevertheless, given the history it may be more
practical to start fresh.

--Michael Snow


_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Michael Bimmler
In reply to this post by Geoffrey Plourde
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Geoffrey Plourde <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It would appear that the company is facing bankruptcy and has been having problems with >the authorities.

Exactly how do you come to this conclusions? It is a huge step from
"some debts" (which the directors of the company will cover, as I
understand) to "facing bankruptcy".

Further, I have not heard of any "problems with the authorities",
could you expand?


> Does she have the authority to dissolve it?

No, that's why she won't do this alone. I suggest an ad fontes
approach next time...:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2008-August/002081.html

"As such, I am proposing with immediate effect that Wiki Educational
Resources Ltd be wound up in accordance with Article 8 of the Memorandum
of Association and an EGM will be called to that end. "

EGM = Extraordinary General Meeting, fyi.

Michael

> Geoff Plourde
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Nathan <[hidden email]>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 7:58:03 AM
> Subject: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia UK
>
> Alison Wheeler announced today the impending dissolution of Wiki Educational
> Resources Ltd (Wikimedia UK). It isn't clear from her message why she
> determined to fold it instead of pass on leadership to those interested. [1]
>
> All other considerations aside, the Wikimedia community owes Alison and the
> other members of the WMUK board of directors a debt of thanks for their
> efforts over the last two years. More than anything else, its clear that
> creating and managing a charity as a volunteer in the United Kingdom is a
> difficult undertaking.
>
> Nathan
>
> [1]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2008-August/thread.html
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Michael Bimmler
[hidden email]

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Nathan Awrich
2008/8/28 Nathan <[hidden email]>:

> Alison Wheeler announced today the impending dissolution of Wiki Educational
> Resources Ltd (Wikimedia UK). It isn't clear from her message why she
> determined to fold it instead of pass on leadership to those interested. [1]


She has proposed it, it's not quite final (though I'm not personally
interested in pushing that particular rock uphill). More back'n'forth
is on wikimediauk-l.


- d.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Bence Damokos
Is Wiki Educational Resources Ltd the same as Wikimedia UK, or they are two
different entities?

--Bence Damokos

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:13 PM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2008/8/28 Nathan <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Alison Wheeler announced today the impending dissolution of Wiki
> Educational
> > Resources Ltd (Wikimedia UK). It isn't clear from her message why she
> > determined to fold it instead of pass on leadership to those interested.
> [1]
>
>
> She has proposed it, it's not quite final (though I'm not personally
> interested in pushing that particular rock uphill). More back'n'forth
> is on wikimediauk-l.
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Delphine Ménard
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 19:17, Bence Damokos <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is Wiki Educational Resources Ltd the same as Wikimedia UK, or they are two
> different entities?

WER is the official name of the company, and its "trade name",
regulated by an agreement with the WIkimedia Foundation, is Wikimedia
UK.

Yes, they are the same entity.

Best,

Delphine
--
~notafish

NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Your emails will get lost.
Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Andrew Whitworth-2
In reply to this post by Bence Damokos
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Bence Damokos <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is Wiki Educational Resources Ltd the same as Wikimedia UK, or they are two
> different entities?

Same entity. "Wiki Education Resources" is the legal name for the
group we call "Wikimedia UK".

--Andrew Whitworth

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Dan Rosenthal
In reply to this post by Michael Snow-3
Michael Snow wrote:

> Thomas Dalton wrote:
>  
>> 2008/8/28 Nathan <[hidden email]>:
>>  
>>    
>>> Alison Wheeler announced today the impending dissolution of Wiki Educational
>>> Resources Ltd (Wikimedia UK). It isn't clear from her message why she
>>> determined to fold it instead of pass on leadership to those interested. [1]
>>>    
>>>      
>> She mentioned the company has debts incurred through the setup and no
>> assets to pay them off - starting from scratch may well be the best
>> option in that light (I don't know the extent of the debts).
>>  
>>    
> She described it elsewhere as "some small liabilities", so I assume
> they're not too major. Nevertheless, given the history it may be more
> practical to start fresh.
>
> --Michael Snow
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>  
If they are "small liabilities", would someone from WM UK mind
contacting me off-list to see about making a donation to WM UK? I'm
completely unfamiliar with the situation, but if it's simply a money
issue, I'm more than willing to put up at least something.


-Dan

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Thomas Dalton
> If they are "small liabilities", would someone from WM UK mind
> contacting me off-list to see about making a donation to WM UK? I'm
> completely unfamiliar with the situation, but if it's simply a money
> issue, I'm more than willing to put up at least something.

It's not simply a money issue. Frankly, I don't understand this
decision at all, but I don't think it's really a financial decision.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Michael Bimmler
2008/8/28 Michael Bimmler <[hidden email]>:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Geoffrey Plourde <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> It would appear that the company is facing bankruptcy and has been having problems with >the authorities.
>
> Exactly how do you come to this conclusions? It is a huge step from
> "some debts" (which the directors of the company will cover, as I
> understand) to "facing bankruptcy".

The guarantor members of the company are liable for £1 each (a token
amount), most the debts will just be written off. The directors aren't
personally liable for them.

> Further, I have not heard of any "problems with the authorities",
> could you expand?

There have been some administrative problems with keeping the
authorities (Companies House) up to date with the status of board
members, and things. I don't know the details.

>> Does she have the authority to dissolve it?
>
> No, that's why she won't do this alone. I suggest an ad fontes
> approach next time...:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2008-August/002081.html
>
> "As such, I am proposing with immediate effect that Wiki Educational
> Resources Ltd be wound up in accordance with Article 8 of the Memorandum
> of Association and an EGM will be called to that end. "
>
> EGM = Extraordinary General Meeting, fyi.

The members will presumably have to vote on it (I haven't read Article
8 recently), but there aren't many members (it's basically just the
board, from what I can tell). I don't know if they'll all be in
favour, but I can't see them fighting it - David has said here he
doesn't want to fight it, Arkady has said on the UK mailing list that
she doesn't want to be involved any more, so I can't see her fighting
it, that just leaves Alison and Paul Sinclair (the treasurer who
refuses to reveal his onwiki identity), and any other members that
turn up (previous board members, perhaps, I don't know of any other
members). We're working under the assumption that Alison's proposal
will go through.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Michael Bimmler
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The guarantor members of the company are liable for £1 each (a token
> amount), most the debts will just be written off. The directors aren't
> personally liable for them.
>

Of course, but see
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2008-August/002081.html

" For myself I am willing to forego repayment of the
outstanding expenses I have incurred on behalf of Wikimedia UK and Wiki
Educational Resources Ltd, and hope that others will do so to in order to
expedite the process."

Michael
--
Michael Bimmler
[hidden email]

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Thomas Dalton
2008/8/28 Michael Bimmler <[hidden email]>:

> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The guarantor members of the company are liable for £1 each (a token
>> amount), most the debts will just be written off. The directors aren't
>> personally liable for them.
>>
>
> Of course, but see
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2008-August/002081.html
>
> " For myself I am willing to forego repayment of the
> outstanding expenses I have incurred on behalf of Wikimedia UK and Wiki
> Educational Resources Ltd, and hope that others will do so to in order to
> expedite the process."

Well yes, but she doesn't have much say in the matter. The company
doesn't have the assets to pay her. It's makes things simpler
administratively if she doesn't try and claim, but it doesn't make any
real difference.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

geni
In reply to this post by Dan Rosenthal
2008/8/28 Dan Rosenthal <[hidden email]>:
> If they are "small liabilities", would someone from WM UK mind
> contacting me off-list to see about making a donation to WM UK? I'm
> completely unfamiliar with the situation, but if it's simply a money
> issue, I'm more than willing to put up at least something.
>
>
> -Dan

It's a general collapse issue. By folding WM UK at this point we can
start to plan the way forward from a clean start.


--
geni

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Alison M. Wheeler
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
On Thu, August 28, 2008 18:44, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2008/8/28 Michael Bimmler <[hidden email]>:
>> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Geoffrey Plourde <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> It would appear that the company is facing bankruptcy and has been
>>> having problems with >the authorities.
>>
>> Exactly how do you come to this conclusions? It is a huge step from
>> "some debts" (which the directors of the company will cover, as I
>> understand) to "facing bankruptcy".

There is **NO** likelihood of this whatsoever, and I would sincerely hope
people immediately stop spreading such false rumours. The debts are *very*
minor and relate to travel and filing expenses and all the creditors are
current or past Directors. It may be that some see mileage in disparaging
those involved, but there really isn't.

>> Further, I have not heard of any "problems with the authorities",
>> could you expand?
>
> There have been some administrative problems with keeping the
> authorities (Companies House) up to date with the status of board
> members, and things. I don't know the details.

Again, please do not profess to state that there are problems with any
authorities. There are, again, **NONE** whatsoever. Please do not spread
lies.

>>> Does she have the authority to dissolve it?

I am not dissolving the Company but I am proposing that course of action
to the Board and members.

The UK Chapter was founded at The Tabard pub in Borough following a number
of meetings about three years ago. Fewer than a dozen people, from memory,
chose to be involved in those meetings and when it came to the meeting to
elect people to actually *do* things the number shrank even further.

Subsequently people have fallen by the wayside as would be expected and
whilst a few new people have got involved and we posted on various lists
and sites that we'd love it for people interested and qualified (and
involved with the WMF projects) to come and get involved, it really didn't
happen; some people seem more keen on sniping from the sidelines
demonstrating that they had no actual skills or knowledge except an
ability to type a lot. Oh, and an ability to keep digging as to the
on-wiki identity of someone contrary to their privacy.

It is because the number of people who are capable of being involved has
today dropped to just three (and I announced some months ago that I would
not be seeking re-election) and that there are, as I write this, no
capable and experienced hands to pass this on to, that I have concluded
*for myself* that it is in the best interests of WMUK and of the Company
of which I am a Director (and would, like the other Directors over the
years, continue to retain a liability for the actions of for a period
after retiring/resigning) that WER is dissolved rather than 'handed over'
to a bunch of people who have not demonstrated any possibility of being
suitably qualified.

As it happens, there is not a complete agreement between the Directors as
to this suggested process, and that discussion will proceed over the next
days, possibly weeks. This, indeed, is why the proposed step was only
noted on the UK mailing list and not this one. but be that as it may it is
here now.

I really and truly hope that a new WMUK will rise like a phoenix from the
ashes, but that will require someone with knowledge, sense and experience
to come forward. As I have not seen any such candidates - of which at
least two or three would be needed for me to feel comfortable keeping WMUK
in existence given the risks to the current Board and former members of
the Board during the last 12 months that such replacement of Board members
would create and, as the responsible person, I cannot endorse taking that
risk.

Alison Wheeler


_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK

Nathan Awrich
Given Alison's comments, I suggest to those in the midst of typing angry
responses that it is in the best interests of Wikimedia and Wikimedia UK if
she be allowed to exit gracefully and have that be the end of it. You are
certainly able to use the founding documents of WER to craft your own
organization, and most of the major hurdles of formalization remain in any
case. Bitter recriminations and accusations on this public list will serve
only to discredit WER, the Wikimedia community in the UK and future
iterations of Wikimedia UK.

Nathan
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l