Wikimedia UK v2.0

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
21 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Wikimedia UK v2.0

Thomas Dalton
Dear Wikimedia community,

We are proud and honoured to announce that a plan is in the works to
found a new UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation. A lot of
discussion has already taken place on IRC and we are ready to begin
gathering support from the community. If you are interesting in being
part of a new UK chapter, in whatever capacity (from sitting on the
board, to cheering us on from the sidelines), please head over to
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_v2.0 and let us know. Over
the next few days we will gather names and put some finishing touches
to the plans. An election will be held for the initial board, who will
then oversee the process of founding the company and accepting
application to membership. They will then organise an AGM to formally
elect a new board to take the chapter forward to begin fundraising and
supporting the Wikimedia community in the UK in whatever way we can.

This is an exciting time for the UK community and I hope you will all
support us in it.

Kind regards,

Thomas "Tango" Dalton
Tom "Cfp" Holden
River Tarnell
Alex Newman
Paul Williams
Geniw

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Thomas Dalton
Apologies for the duplicate - gmail is having a funny five minutes.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Brian Salter-Duke-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
I am probably talking out of the top of my head, but as a Pom now living
in Australia who vists the UK frequently and hopes to meet up with UK
wikimedians on one of these visits, I am concerned about all this.

I wonder why you want to be a "company limited by guarantee"? Is that
the only way. Would the Clapham Common Tiddlywinks Clus be a company
limited by guarantee? Or are there simpler processes. Wikimedia
Australia Inc is incorporated as an Association in one State (Victoria).
This is what clubs and associations do. It is much simpler than being a
company of any kind and it still protects the officers and committee
members from liability. Is there nothing similar in the UK?

Best wishes from the Oz chapter for a successful rebirth.

Brian.

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:07:36 +0100, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Wikimedia community,
>
> We are proud and honoured to announce that a plan is in the works to
> found a new UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation. A lot of
> discussion has already taken place on IRC and we are ready to begin
> gathering support from the community. If you are interesting in being
> part of a new UK chapter, in whatever capacity (from sitting on the
> board, to cheering us on from the sidelines), please head over to
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_v2.0 and let us know. Over
> the next few days we will gather names and put some finishing touches
> to the plans. An election will be held for the initial board, who will
> then oversee the process of founding the company and accepting
> application to membership. They will then organise an AGM to formally
> elect a new board to take the chapter forward to begin fundraising and
> supporting the Wikimedia community in the UK in whatever way we can.
>
> This is an exciting time for the UK community and I hope you will all
> support us in it.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Thomas "Tango" Dalton
> Tom "Cfp" Holden
> River Tarnell
> Alex Newman
> Paul Williams
> Geniw
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>


--
          Brian Salter-Duke            [hidden email]  
               [[User:Bduke]]  mainly on en:Wikipedia.
     Also on fr: Wikipedia, Meta-Wiki and Wikiversity and others.
                   Go Wikimedia Australia Inc, Go!


_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Thomas Dalton
On 28/08/2008, Brian Salter-Duke <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am probably talking out of the top of my head, but as a Pom now living
>  in Australia who vists the UK frequently and hopes to meet up with UK
>  wikimedians on one of these visits, I am concerned about all this.
>
>  I wonder why you want to be a "company limited by guarantee"? Is that
>  the only way. Would the Clapham Common Tiddlywinks Clus be a company
>  limited by guarantee? Or are there simpler processes. Wikimedia
>  Australia Inc is incorporated as an Association in one State (Victoria).
>  This is what clubs and associations do. It is much simpler than being a
>  company of any kind and it still protects the officers and committee
>  members from liability. Is there nothing similar in the UK?

What does "incorporated as an Association" mean? In the UK, an
association is a type of *un*incorporated charity and offers little or
no protection for the board. I take it Australia uses different
terminology. There is a new type of charity in the process of being
designed, a Charitable Incorporated Organisation, which gives you the
advantages of being a company without all the extra paperwork, but
that won't be available for at least 6 months by the look of it. We
can, however, convert to it once it is available - it will apparently
be designed to make conversion quite simple. At the moment, however, a
company limited by guarantee is pretty much the only option that
protects the board.

>  Best wishes from the Oz chapter for a successful rebirth.

Much appreciated, thank you.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Alison M. Wheeler
On Fri, August 29, 2008 01:03, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> At the moment, however, a
> company limited by guarantee is pretty much the only option that
> protects the board.

The issue is not so much one of protecting the Board (though that is, of
course, a good thing!) but that with a non-incorporated body all monies
are deemed to be the personal assets of those involved (bad for tax) and
hence people - especially possible large donors - will not give money as
it has no 'independence'. A 'Body corporate' is the only way to protect
funds with proper disclosure and financial security (and Directors are
personally liable if company funds are misused too).

Alison


_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Anthony-73
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 6:20 AM, Alison Wheeler <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> On Fri, August 29, 2008 01:03, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> > At the moment, however, a
> > company limited by guarantee is pretty much the only option that
> > protects the board.
>
> The issue is not so much one of protecting the Board (though that is, of
> course, a good thing!) but that with a non-incorporated body all monies
> are deemed to be the personal assets of those involved (bad for tax) and
> hence people - especially possible large donors - will not give money as
> it has no 'independence'. A 'Body corporate' is the only way to protect
> funds with proper disclosure and financial security (and Directors are
> personally liable if company funds are misused too).
>

Assuming the organization has a need to hold assets and collect funds for
non-immediate use in the first place.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Thomas Dalton
> Assuming the organization has a need to hold assets and collect funds for
> non-immediate use in the first place.

Which it certainly will. You can't fundraise specifically for each
individual activity just before it happens.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Anthony-73
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>wrote:

> > Assuming the organization has a need to hold assets and collect funds for
> > non-immediate use in the first place.
>
> Which it certainly will. You can't fundraise specifically for each
> individual activity just before it happens.
>

Depends on the activities, and whether they'll be funded by participants or
by strangers.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Thomas Dalton
2008/8/29 Anthony <[hidden email]>:

> On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> > Assuming the organization has a need to hold assets and collect funds for
>> > non-immediate use in the first place.
>>
>> Which it certainly will. You can't fundraise specifically for each
>> individual activity just before it happens.
>>
>
> Depends on the activities, and whether they'll be funded by participants or
> by strangers.

If activities were all funded by the participants, we would be very
limited in what we could do. There would be little need for a chapter,
it would serve as nothing more than a source of fancy titles.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

geni
2008/8/29 Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>:

> 2008/8/29 Anthony <[hidden email]>:
>> On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>
>>> > Assuming the organization has a need to hold assets and collect funds for
>>> > non-immediate use in the first place.
>>>
>>> Which it certainly will. You can't fundraise specifically for each
>>> individual activity just before it happens.
>>>
>>
>> Depends on the activities, and whether they'll be funded by participants or
>> by strangers.
>
> If activities were all funded by the participants, we would be very
> limited in what we could do. There would be little need for a chapter,
> it would serve as nothing more than a source of fancy titles.

Fancy titles will get you the ability to talk to people we would not
otherwise be able to talk to.

--
geni

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Thomas Dalton
>> If activities were all funded by the participants, we would be very
>> limited in what we could do. There would be little need for a chapter,
>> it would serve as nothing more than a source of fancy titles.
>
> Fancy titles will get you the ability to talk to people we would not
> otherwise be able to talk to.

Hence why I said "little need", not "no need". They can come in handy,
but are a pretty minor part of what having a chapter is all about.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

geni
2008/8/29 Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>:
>>> If activities were all funded by the participants, we would be very
>>> limited in what we could do. There would be little need for a chapter,
>>> it would serve as nothing more than a source of fancy titles.
>>
>> Fancy titles will get you the ability to talk to people we would not
>> otherwise be able to talk to.
>
> Hence why I said "little need", not "no need". They can come in handy,
> but are a pretty minor part of what having a chapter is all about.

Well consider suppose we wanted to get access to a collection to
photograph it. Titles may get you that individuals not so much.

So far the only thing we have managed to organise without a chapter
are meetups. Reason being is that as soon as you start dealing with
third parties you hit the "who are you?" question.

--
geni

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Anthony-73
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>wrote:

> 2008/8/29 Anthony <[hidden email]>:
> > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> > Assuming the organization has a need to hold assets and collect funds
> for
> >> > non-immediate use in the first place.
> >>
> >> Which it certainly will. You can't fundraise specifically for each
> >> individual activity just before it happens.
> >>
> >
> > Depends on the activities, and whether they'll be funded by participants
> or
> > by strangers.
>
> If activities were all funded by the participants, we would be very
> limited in what we could do. There would be little need for a chapter,
> it would serve as nothing more than a source of fancy titles.
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Takes_Manhattan seems to me
to be a perfect example of what can be done with activities funded by the
participants.  But yeah, there's little need for a chapter to do that kind
of stuff.

What types of activities do you have planned that would require outside
funding?  How do you intend to get that funding?  And why shouldn't this
activity be pursued by the WMF, instead of the WMUK?
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

geni
2008/8/30 Anthony <[hidden email]>:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Takes_Manhattan seems to me
> to be a perfect example of what can be done with activities funded by the
> participants.  But yeah, there's little need for a chapter to do that kind
> of stuff.

So something organised by two chapters of "Free Culture @" and with
further help from creative commons doesn't need a chapter? While there
are other structures that could do that kind of thing the fact is they
haven't.

> What types of activities do you have planned that would require outside
> funding?

At present none because no such funding exists. Nor does any chapter
exist to do anything with it. Given the failure of the previous
chapter to complete setup distractions from the goal of setup are not
exactly welcome at this time.

Still if you insist:

1)The UK has some very large undigitalised photographic archives that
are public domain. Digitalised the material would be of significant
value to both wikimedia projects and the UK public in general (he's an
aerial photo of where you live from 1948). Even with volunteer labor
there are equipment costs to consider.

2)There are cases where free access is unlikely with various
organisations being very controlling of their archives.

3)The usual consideration of local servers while direct hosting is a
very bad idea there are other things that could be done with them.

4)sponsoring programs similar to the SOS schools CD.

There are others. Finding ways to spend money is never hard.

> How do you intend to get that funding?

Donation drives, memberships, premium memberships, sales of items
using wikipedia logo. There are various ways.

>  And why shouldn't this
> activity be pursued by the WMF, instead of the WMUK?

An American charity acting within the UK creates issues. In addition
the WMF has other priorities and has expressed no desire to pursue
such activities anywhere.

--
geni

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Anthony-73
> What types of activities do you have planned that would require outside
> funding?

Whatever the community can think of. I haven't given it a great deal
of though myself in anything more than general terms. I see the
chapter as existing to facilitate the ideas of the community, there's
no need for those running the chapter to come up with the ideas.

>  How do you intend to get that funding?  And why shouldn't this
> activity be pursued by the WMF, instead of the WMUK?

The same as any other charity: donations from people that support our
cause. Being a UK charity means donations from the UK are tax
deductible. The way the UK does it (other countries may have similar
schemes, I don't know), is that when we receive a donation of, say,
£100 we then submit a form to the taxman and he gives us another £25
(or somewhere around that figure). That's £25 the WMF could never get.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Anthony-73
In reply to this post by geni
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 11:22 PM, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2008/8/30 Anthony <[hidden email]>:
> > What types of activities do you have planned that would require outside
> > funding?
>
> At present none because no such funding exists. Nor does any chapter
> exist to do anything with it. Given the failure of the previous
> chapter to complete setup distractions from the goal of setup are not
> exactly welcome at this time.
>

I think you got the cart before the horse.  Who's going to donate money to
someone who doesn't have any plans for what to do with it?  How can you set
up a chapter when you don't have any idea what its purpose is?

Still if you insist:
>

Thanks.  My questions weren't meant as rhetorical.  I'm truly interested in
the answers.


> There are others. Finding ways to spend money is never hard.
>

Well, yeah, but finding ways to spend money that are going to attract
strangers to donate money is, at least it is to me!

On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>wrote:

> > What types of activities do you have planned that would require outside
> > funding?
>
> Whatever the community can think of. I haven't given it a great deal
> of though myself in anything more than general terms. I see the
> chapter as existing to facilitate the ideas of the community, there's
> no need for those running the chapter to come up with the ideas.
>

I'm sorry, but that seems incredibly strange to me.  It sounds like a Monty
Python skit.  "Why do you want to form a chapter?"  "Because that's the only
way to protect funds."  "Why do you need funds?"  "Because if we didn't have
funds, the chapter wouldn't serve any purpose."  "So what is the chapter
going to do?"  "Not sure yet, we need to set up the chapter in order to
figure something out."

Good luck though, honestly.  And I hope you don't take my last paragraph as
rude.  I know I'm exaggerating what you've said in this thread, and taking
things a bit out of context.

Anthony
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Henning Schlottmann
In reply to this post by Anthony-73
Anthony wrote:

> What types of activities do you have planned that would require outside
> funding?  How do you intend to get that funding?  And why shouldn't this
> activity be pursued by the WMF, instead of the WMUK?

In case this isn't just trolling: Whatever the members and / or the
community of UK Wikimedians wishes - for example but not limited to the
activities the German chapter have. Organising an event in and with a
large university causes expenses in the preparatory stage even if the
event as such is funded by the partnering university. Staffing a booth
at a trade fair can be done by volunteers, printing a few posters and
brochures needs funding.

Maybe in the future there will be a chance to have staff and an office
for Wikimedia UK in London, such as the German chapter has in Frankfurt
(moving to Berlin these days).

An incorporated chapter is mandatory to accept donations to fund these
and other activities.

Ciao Henning


_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

geni
In reply to this post by Anthony-73
2008/8/30 Anthony <[hidden email]>:
> I think you got the cart before the horse.  Who's going to donate money to
> someone who doesn't have any plans for what to do with it?

Strangely we don't appear to be asking for donations at this point.

> How can you set
> up a chapter when you don't have any idea what its purpose is?

Need any more straw?


> Well, yeah, but finding ways to spend money that are going to attract
> strangers to donate money is, at least it is to me!

Which is why we will deal with the issue at the proper time rather
than when our resources are focused elsewhere.
--
geni

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Anthony-73
> I'm sorry, but that seems incredibly strange to me.  It sounds like a Monty
> Python skit.  "Why do you want to form a chapter?"  "Because that's the only
> way to protect funds."  "Why do you need funds?"  "Because if we didn't have
> funds, the chapter wouldn't serve any purpose."  "So what is the chapter
> going to do?"  "Not sure yet, we need to set up the chapter in order to
> figure something out."
>
> Good luck though, honestly.  And I hope you don't take my last paragraph as
> rude.  I know I'm exaggerating what you've said in this thread, and taking
> things a bit out of context.

Basically I'm going on faith at the moment. I have faith in the
community to make good use of the work I and others are putting in
getting the chapter set up. We haven't spent time doing anything to
verify that faith, so perhaps I'm completely wrong and we'll end up
with an empty shell that never does anything, but personally I think
that's unlikely.

I this conversation rather strange, you seem to be talking as if this
is a new idea. Plenty of other countries have chapters and make good
use of them, if you want to know what chapters can usefully do you
would be better of looking at them rather than asking us. We'll do
pretty much the same things, just in a different country.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Wikimedia UK v2.0

Anthony-73
On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I this conversation rather strange, you seem to be talking as if this
> is a new idea. Plenty of other countries have chapters and make good
> use of them, if you want to know what chapters can usefully do you
> would be better of looking at them rather than asking us. We'll do
> pretty much the same things, just in a different country.


Well, my initial questions were directed at everyone, not just at you.  I
only started directing my questions primarily at you because you were the
one who responded to me.

The impression I've gotten is that the chapters are mainly just used for
social networking and meetups.  The German chapter seems to be doing a bit
more, but I don't know if they get significant donations from
non-participants, and, well, most of the information on the chapter is in a
language I don't speak.  This impression might very well be wrong.  Finding
out information about Wikimedia matters is extremely difficult.  I try to
keep up with all the blogs and mailing lists and unofficial and official
websites, but I still don't know more than a small fraction of what's going
on.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
12