Wikimedia Youth Camp?

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Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Erik Moeller-3
Just an idea, and probably not a new one:

I'm consistently amazed by the amount of participation by young people
in our projects. Ranging from featured article writing to
organizational tasks, their participation covers the whole gamut of
activities Wikimedia has to offer -- and many of them do it with
passion and skills that should make any adult blush.

Would it be worth considering to organize national (perhaps also
annual) conferences specifically targeted at youths participating in
Wikimedia, and those who might do so in the future? Such a venue would
be very different from the more serious Wikimania. It could be a
summer camp, with music and some non-wiki activities (films, sports,
..).

Topics would be handled in a more participatory, workshop style manner
than typical conference sessions. They could include:
- How to write really good articles?
- How to do research in libraries?
- What is this copyright stuff all about?
- My POV, your POV, NPOV?
- Where's Willy? How to find and fight vandals
- Jimbo's campfire stories
- Write your own news with Wikinews
- Celebrity hunt: Wikimedia Commons needs you
- Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it

OK, perhaps I'm not really good at defining the topic scope. But you
get the idea. ;-)

Ideally, workshop leaders themselves should be youths with experience
in Wikimedia, with some adult help to explain the more complex issues
of law, policy and technology.

If we consider this a good idea, another question is whether we should
do it in conjunction with other organizations like Creative Commons or
the FSF. The closest thing to such an event I've participated in was
the "Berlin 05" youth festival last year, where both Wikimedia and the
Chaos Computer Club were present. (See
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_05 for brief information about
that event in German.)

A festival or camp might have more of a long term future with support
from multiple organizations, an international make-up, and an annual
schedule like Wikimania. A "Free Culture Youth Festival" might be a
suitably generic framework. But a more focused Wiki-Camp might have
its benefits, too.

Thoughts?

--
Peace & Love,
Erik
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

James Hare
What a great idea -- "kids" meeting "kids" they found on the Internet.

Sarcasm aside, this sounds like a good idea. Though my personal preference
would be to go to Wikimania itself. But I'm not normal in too many ways.

On 9/5/06, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Just an idea, and probably not a new one:
>
> I'm consistently amazed by the amount of participation by young people
> in our projects. Ranging from featured article writing to
> organizational tasks, their participation covers the whole gamut of
> activities Wikimedia has to offer -- and many of them do it with
> passion and skills that should make any adult blush.
>
> Would it be worth considering to organize national (perhaps also
> annual) conferences specifically targeted at youths participating in
> Wikimedia, and those who might do so in the future? Such a venue would
> be very different from the more serious Wikimania. It could be a
> summer camp, with music and some non-wiki activities (films, sports,
> ..).
>
> Topics would be handled in a more participatory, workshop style manner
> than typical conference sessions. They could include:
> - How to write really good articles?
> - How to do research in libraries?
> - What is this copyright stuff all about?
> - My POV, your POV, NPOV?
> - Where's Willy? How to find and fight vandals
> - Jimbo's campfire stories
> - Write your own news with Wikinews
> - Celebrity hunt: Wikimedia Commons needs you
> - Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it
>
> OK, perhaps I'm not really good at defining the topic scope. But you
> get the idea. ;-)
>
> Ideally, workshop leaders themselves should be youths with experience
> in Wikimedia, with some adult help to explain the more complex issues
> of law, policy and technology.
>
> If we consider this a good idea, another question is whether we should
> do it in conjunction with other organizations like Creative Commons or
> the FSF. The closest thing to such an event I've participated in was
> the "Berlin 05" youth festival last year, where both Wikimedia and the
> Chaos Computer Club were present. (See
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_05 for brief information about
> that event in German.)
>
> A festival or camp might have more of a long term future with support
> from multiple organizations, an international make-up, and an annual
> schedule like Wikimania. A "Free Culture Youth Festival" might be a
> suitably generic framework. But a more focused Wiki-Camp might have
> its benefits, too.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Peace & Love,
> Erik
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Scott Zager
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-3
I think that is an absolutely wonderful idea.  The free culture has greatly
affected me for about four years now (I'm 17 at the moment).  Initially it
was just that I didn't have a job, so I didn't have the money to pay for
anything.  But eventually I got caught up in the spirit and philosophy of
the whole thing.

Besides myself, I personally know quite a number of others that have had
similar experiences.  The prime example being Wikipedia.  A youth festival
type event, I believe, would harness the attention of many that timidly use
and participate in the free culture to immerse themselves more into the
projects.

The FSF has also come to attention of many youths (including myself).  I
cannot tell you the satisfaction I feel when I tell somebody that Linux or
any other GPL'd software is not only free in price, but free as in liberty.
It sparks quite a discussion about the entire philosophy of free information
and a free culture.

A festival targeted for the youth would definitely be rewarding to both
those who attend and the community.

--
-Scott Zager
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

geni
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-3
On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thoughts?

I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to
younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of
age.

--
geni
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

James Hare
Couldn't agree more. It'll look good on my college résumé when they see I
did great stuff in the world of wiki.

On 9/5/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Thoughts?
>
> I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to
> younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of
> age.
>
> --
> geni
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Andrew Lih
In reply to this post by James Hare
On 9/5/06, James Hare <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What a great idea -- "kids" meeting "kids" they found on the Internet.
>
> Sarcasm aside, this sounds like a good idea. Though my personal preference
> would be to go to Wikimania itself. But I'm not normal in too many ways.

I think it's a great idea, and is somewhat like what I've helped
organize with another nonprofit membership organization. One thing we
do is the week before the actual annual conference, have that be the
time to fly in students/youth to do the "camp" part, so that they can
also benefit from attending the big conference.

So in a similar way, we could have a week before Wikimania where we
gather the youth to have a special camp, which takes advantage of
Wikipedians who might be able to show up.

-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Erik Moeller-3
On 9/6/06, Andrew Lih <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So in a similar way, we could have a week before Wikimania where we
> gather the youth to have a special camp, which takes advantage of
> Wikipedians who might be able to show up.

One caveat: Wikimania is already a pretty big event, with the Hacking
Days before then .. I fear volunteer burn-out since it's likely going
to be some of the same people who would attend both events.

Having different locations (e.g. have the YC in EU when WM is in US,
etc.) would allow for different volunteers to participate in the
organization of both events, taking off some of the strain. And
Wikimedians who can't make it to Wikimania because it's too far away
might be able to attend, as helpers, their local YC.
--
Peace & Love,
Erik
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Rory Stolzenberg
In reply to this post by geni
As a 15 year old myself (as of 22 minutes ago, EST), I completely agree with
geni.  The best thing about being a 14 year old on Wikipedia is that nobody
treats you as inferior or different, you can just be a member of the
community.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism.

On 9/5/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Thoughts?
>
> I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to
> younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of
> age.
>
> --
> geni
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Andrew Lih
Sigh... let's not go "fundamentalist" on this.

No one is rounding up youth and forcing them to participate only in
camps. It's an *option* for youth who would like to meet other youth
do something fun. It's just another choice in the spectrum of
Wikimedia efforts.

-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)

On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As a 15 year old myself (as of 22 minutes ago, EST), I completely agree with
> geni.  The best thing about being a 14 year old on Wikipedia is that nobody
> treats you as inferior or different, you can just be a member of the
> community.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism.
>
> On 9/5/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Thoughts?
> >
> > I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to
> > younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of
> > age.
> >
> > --
> > geni
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Rory Stolzenberg
Of course, but we should make sure it's actually something that people would
want to be part of before devoting a lot of effort to it. Frankly, I don't
think that many kids on Wikipedia would be interested in a course called
"Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it," and probably even
less would be able to get there.

On 9/6/06, Andrew Lih <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Sigh... let's not go "fundamentalist" on this.
>
> No one is rounding up youth and forcing them to participate only in
> camps. It's an *option* for youth who would like to meet other youth
> do something fun. It's just another choice in the spectrum of
> Wikimedia efforts.
>
> -Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
>
> On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > As a 15 year old myself (as of 22 minutes ago, EST), I completely agree
> with
> > geni.  The best thing about being a 14 year old on Wikipedia is that
> nobody
> > treats you as inferior or different, you can just be a member of the
> > community.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism.
> >
> > On 9/5/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to
> > > younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of
> > > age.
> > >
> > > --
> > > geni
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Andrew Lih
On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Of course, but we should make sure it's actually something that people would
> want to be part of before devoting a lot of effort to it. Frankly, I don't
> think that many kids on Wikipedia would be interested in a course called
> "Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it," and probably even
> less would be able to get there.

That's why I think as a start, it would be good to run this as a youth
session for a few days before Wikimania rather than depending a
dedicated gettogether. Just like Hacking Days is a magnet for technie
types to join together to learn, there could be a preconference track
for younger folks who can decide for themselves if it's something
they're into.

Even if it's simply skills development, done in the context of
Wikimania, it could get younger folks excited and involved. Some ideas
might include - working with Wikimedia Commons, using Wikipedia in
studies, media literacy, workshops on particular tasks. From a public
relations angle, it's something that can show the Wikipedia community
giving back to help train younger folks with the skills that have
become second nature to Wikipedians.

In fact, very few of these things are specific to being "youth" but
rather providing a nurturing environment to recruit and train a
younger generation of Wikipedians. (Actually, for Wikimania 2007, this
might be good thing to do for the conference in general - tutorial
tracks for folks who would like to learn the nuts and bolts of certain
tasks.)

Given recent questions about scalability of consensus, the poisonous
RfA proceedings and trivia creeping into every corner of Wikipedia, we
should be looking into more ways to keep the community healthy.

-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

KIZU Naoko
I am supportive for "tutorial tracks" Andrew mentioned. Not only for
the younger generation, but also for other generations, including aged
(and not familiar with PC and other techy things) etc.

In a practical mention, it would be meaningful to target the youth in
that occasion,  simply because they would be significant parts of our
community, and generally they need to be trained. Some young
Wikipedians (I am now recalling LeonWP on German Wikipedia, Kzhr on
Japanese Wikipedia et al) have showed splendid maturity through their
editorial activities, however it isn't inevitable they are still
developping their skills in all directions. And the much clearer we
can make the target of such event  the more successful and the more
practically managed it would be.

Back to the general topic, I saw once a question about training
occasion on Japanese Wikipedia. A newcomer, supposedly middle-aged or
older and seemed to have some experiences in his or her field, wanted
to know if there was an oppotunity of editing tutorial sessions in
real life. I recommend each language community to consider to hold
such (perhaps local) lecture(s), if possible. It would be a good
oppotunity to consider such tutorials are better to be organized by
generation or not, too.

On 9/6/06, Andrew Lih <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Of course, but we should make sure it's actually something that people would
> > want to be part of before devoting a lot of effort to it. Frankly, I don't
> > think that many kids on Wikipedia would be interested in a course called
> > "Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it," and probably even
> > less would be able to get there.
>
> That's why I think as a start, it would be good to run this as a youth
> session for a few days before Wikimania rather than depending a
> dedicated gettogether. Just like Hacking Days is a magnet for technie
> types to join together to learn, there could be a preconference track
> for younger folks who can decide for themselves if it's something
> they're into.
>
> Even if it's simply skills development, done in the context of
> Wikimania, it could get younger folks excited and involved. Some ideas
> might include - working with Wikimedia Commons, using Wikipedia in
> studies, media literacy, workshops on particular tasks. From a public
> relations angle, it's something that can show the Wikipedia community
> giving back to help train younger folks with the skills that have
> become second nature to Wikipedians.
>
> In fact, very few of these things are specific to being "youth" but
> rather providing a nurturing environment to recruit and train a
> younger generation of Wikipedians. (Actually, for Wikimania 2007, this
> might be good thing to do for the conference in general - tutorial
> tracks for folks who would like to learn the nuts and bolts of certain
> tasks.)
>
> Given recent questions about scalability of consensus, the poisonous
> RfA proceedings and trivia creeping into every corner of Wikipedia, we
> should be looking into more ways to keep the community healthy.
>
> -Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


--
Kizu Naoko
  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * vivemus, mea Lesbia, amemus *
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Rory Stolzenberg
In reply to this post by Andrew Lih
I think the idea of having courses and workshops on these topics is great,
but we shouldn't be targeting it towards youth specifically; it needlessly
singles them out and makes them different, and people of all ages can learn
from things like this.  Yes, it's good to train and nurture a new generation
of Wikipedians, but there's no reason for it to be a younger generation of
Wikipedians.  It should be targeted to the community as a whole, not just
youths.

On 9/6/06, Andrew Lih <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Of course, but we should make sure it's actually something that people
> would
> > want to be part of before devoting a lot of effort to it. Frankly, I
> don't
> > think that many kids on Wikipedia would be interested in a course called
> > "Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it," and probably
> even
> > less would be able to get there.
>
> That's why I think as a start, it would be good to run this as a youth
> session for a few days before Wikimania rather than depending a
> dedicated gettogether. Just like Hacking Days is a magnet for technie
> types to join together to learn, there could be a preconference track
> for younger folks who can decide for themselves if it's something
> they're into.
>
> Even if it's simply skills development, done in the context of
> Wikimania, it could get younger folks excited and involved. Some ideas
> might include - working with Wikimedia Commons, using Wikipedia in
> studies, media literacy, workshops on particular tasks. From a public
> relations angle, it's something that can show the Wikipedia community
> giving back to help train younger folks with the skills that have
> become second nature to Wikipedians.
>
> In fact, very few of these things are specific to being "youth" but
> rather providing a nurturing environment to recruit and train a
> younger generation of Wikipedians. (Actually, for Wikimania 2007, this
> might be good thing to do for the conference in general - tutorial
> tracks for folks who would like to learn the nuts and bolts of certain
> tasks.)
>
> Given recent questions about scalability of consensus, the poisonous
> RfA proceedings and trivia creeping into every corner of Wikipedia, we
> should be looking into more ways to keep the community healthy.
>
> -Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Andrew Lih
On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think the idea of having courses and workshops on these topics is great,
> but we shouldn't be targeting it towards youth specifically; it needlessly
> singles them out and makes them different, and people of all ages can learn
> from things like this.  Yes, it's good to train and nurture a new generation
> of Wikipedians, but there's no reason for it to be a younger generation of
> Wikipedians.  It should be targeted to the community as a whole, not just
> youths.

Refer to earlier post.

Sometimes young folks like to hang out with young folks.

-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Erik Moeller-3
In reply to this post by Rory Stolzenberg
On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> As a 15 year old myself (as of 22 minutes ago, EST)

Happy birthday! :-)

> I completely agree with
> geni.  The best thing about being a 14 year old on Wikipedia is that nobody
> treats you as inferior or different, you can just be a member of the
> community.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism.

As Andrew pointed out, a Youth Camp could be a good way for people of
the same age to hang out and have fun. That doesn't mean that they
aren't welcome at Wikimania, not at all. One other advantage of a YC
is that you can get sponsorships and help from existing Youth
Organizations all over the world.

I think we should ask the young members of the community if they are
interested in such an event. I want to wait for some further comments
in this discussion, but if there are none, I'll start a straw poll on
Meta to gauge general interest.
--
Peace & Love,
Erik
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by geni
On 06/09/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Thoughts?

> I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to
> younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of
> age.


Yes. And that being, e.g., an admin on en:wp only takes similar skills
and cluefulness as being, say, a web forum moderator - there are 15
year olds who are great at the job and 40 year olds you wouldn't let
near it under any circumstances. It's possible to be thoroughly
meritocratic.


- d.
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Birgitte_sb
In reply to this post by Andrew Lih


--- Andrew Lih <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > I think the idea of having courses and workshops
> on these topics is great,
> > but we shouldn't be targeting it towards youth
> specifically; it needlessly
> > singles them out and makes them different, and
> people of all ages can learn
> > from things like this.  Yes, it's good to train
> and nurture a new generation
> > of Wikipedians, but there's no reason for it to be
> a younger generation of
> > Wikipedians.  It should be targeted to the
> community as a whole, not just
> > youths.
>
> Refer to earlier post.
>
> Sometimes young folks like to hang out with young
> folks.
>
> -Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
>

Also lets not forget that young people have much
longer holidays than most people.  I would think
younger people are more likely to be able to attend
and event a week before Wikimania.

Although I do wonder whether we really want to take on
being responsibile for minors.  It would require a lot
more effort than just producing Wikimania does.  I
think if we can partner with a group that has
experience and a good reputation with the "youth camp"
issues, then it would be great for us to provide the
Wikimedia aspect.  If we are doing this on our own
however I think it would be too risky of a
proposition.

Birgitte SB

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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

David Gerard-2
On 06/09/06, Birgitte SB <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Although I do wonder whether we really want to take on
> being responsibile for minors.  It would require a lot
> more effort than just producing Wikimania does.  I
> think if we can partner with a group that has
> experience and a good reputation with the "youth camp"
> issues, then it would be great for us to provide the
> Wikimedia aspect.  If we are doing this on our own
> however I think it would be too risky of a
> proposition.


I can just imagine the writeup from Andrew Orlowski! The event doesn't
have to have happened for me to be able to write it ...


- d.
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

geni
On 9/6/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 06/09/06, Birgitte SB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Although I do wonder whether we really want to take on
> > being responsibile for minors.  It would require a lot
> > more effort than just producing Wikimania does.  I
> > think if we can partner with a group that has
> > experience and a good reputation with the "youth camp"
> > issues, then it would be great for us to provide the
> > Wikimedia aspect.  If we are doing this on our own
> > however I think it would be too risky of a
> > proposition.
>
>
> I can just imagine the writeup from Andrew Orlowski! The event doesn't
> have to have happened for me to be able to write it ...
>
>

Well how about an OAP camp? after a lot of OAPs have IP we would like to have.
--
geni
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Re: Wikimedia Youth Camp?

Andrew Lih
In reply to this post by Birgitte_sb
On 9/6/06, Birgitte SB <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Also lets not forget that young people have much
> longer holidays than most people.  I would think
> younger people are more likely to be able to attend
> and event a week before Wikimania.
>
> Although I do wonder whether we really want to take on
> being responsibile for minors.  It would require a lot
> more effort than just producing Wikimania does.  I
> think if we can partner with a group that has
> experience and a good reputation with the "youth camp"
> issues, then it would be great for us to provide the
> Wikimedia aspect.  If we are doing this on our own
> however I think it would be too risky of a
> proposition.

I agree, that's why a session before Wikimania with maybe 12-16 folks
would be an ideal start. If we're talking 50-100, then I agree -
having to manage that many teenagers under one roof would be daunting.
We'd need the help of an academic institution that has experience
running a summer program or something similar.

-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
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