Wikimedia contacts

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Wikimedia contacts

White Cat
 I am having some serious issues on IRC and wikimedia contacts seem to
be either too busy to help or are completely unwilling to help. I
think the issue needs a review.

        - White Cat

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

John Reaves
The only thing that need review is your behavior.  You are way to
inflammatory and you need to stop stirring up drama.  Your complaints on IRC
won't be taken seriously until you show that you are willing to
constructively engage ops in an attempt to reconcile the issue.

--John Reaves

On Nov 11, 2007 9:18 PM, White Cat <[hidden email] > wrote:

>  I am having some serious issues on IRC and wikimedia contacts seem to
> be either too busy to help or are completely unwilling to help. I
> think the issue needs a review.
>
>        - White Cat
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Wikimedia contacts

White Cat
This constantly blaming me for everything is starting to seriously
annoy me. Nothing I do is inflammatory. Lets be serious, I would not
be complaining if I weren't banned without a reason. It is interesting
you use the word op in a plural sense given all ops ignored my attempt
to discuss things yesterday and the day before.

I am not expected nor required to unignore people I kept ignored for
moths or years just because they acquired op power. Them being ops is
none of my concern. I do not want to talk to them through IRC because
we end up unintentionally annoying each other. It is trivially
possible to contact me via other means such as email, my talk page.

I am been banned off of #wikipedia for requesting the log of the
channel from people I know by Kelly Martin. I am been banned off of
#wikimedia-ops by Kelly Martin with my access there removed over a
mistake in my choice of pronouns. I am been banned off of
#wikipedia-es by drini without a reason. I could not have done
anything because I only and only idle there for the most part unless
prompted with a question of some sort.

I am increasingly feeling that all these bans are actually over the
personal feelings of these people. I sincerely hope that is not the
case though.

When I ask the freenode staff who to talk to about this problem, they
tell me to go talk to the "wikimedia contact" which are not easily
accessible people. I am not exactly certain who these "wikimedia
contacts" are. It should perhaps be listed somewhere such as meta.

         - White Cat

On Nov 12, 2007 6:21 AM, John Reaves <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The only thing that need review is your behavior.  You are way to
> inflammatory and you need to stop stirring up drama.  Your complaints on IRC
> won't be taken seriously until you show that you are willing to
> constructively engage ops in an attempt to reconcile the issue.
>
> --John Reaves
>
>
> On Nov 11, 2007 9:18 PM, White Cat <[hidden email] > wrote:
>
> >  I am having some serious issues on IRC and wikimedia contacts seem to
> > be either too busy to help or are completely unwilling to help. I
> > think the issue needs a review.
> >
> >        - White Cat
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

Angela-5
On Nov 12, 2007 7:18 PM, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> When I ask the freenode staff who to talk to about this problem, they
> tell me to go talk to the "wikimedia contact" which are not easily
> accessible people. I am not exactly certain who these "wikimedia
> contacts" are. It should perhaps be listed somewhere such as meta.

The contacts are listed on meta, but they're not there to resolve
personal disputes you have with people on IRC. As the page says "the
contacts have a policy of staying out of channel affairs..."

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Group_Contacts

Angela

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

Majorly
In reply to this post by White Cat
On 12/11/2007, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> This constantly blaming me for everything is starting to seriously
> annoy me. Nothing I do is inflammatory. Lets be serious, I would not
> be complaining if I weren't banned without a reason. It is interesting
> you use the word op in a plural sense given all ops ignored my attempt
> to discuss things yesterday and the day before.
>
> I am not expected nor required to unignore people I kept ignored for
> moths or years just because they acquired op power. Them being ops is
> none of my concern. I do not want to talk to them through IRC because
> we end up unintentionally annoying each other. It is trivially
> possible to contact me via other means such as email, my talk page.
>
> I am been banned off of #wikipedia for requesting the log of the
> channel from people I know by Kelly Martin. I am been banned off of
> #wikimedia-ops by Kelly Martin with my access there removed over a
> mistake in my choice of pronouns. I am been banned off of
> #wikipedia-es by drini without a reason. I could not have done
> anything because I only and only idle there for the most part unless
> prompted with a question of some sort.
>
> I am increasingly feeling that all these bans are actually over the
> personal feelings of these people. I sincerely hope that is not the
> case though.
>
> When I ask the freenode staff who to talk to about this problem, they
> tell me to go talk to the "wikimedia contact" which are not easily
> accessible people. I am not exactly certain who these "wikimedia
> contacts" are. It should perhaps be listed somewhere such as meta.
>
>          - White Cat
>
> On Nov 12, 2007 6:21 AM, John Reaves <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The only thing that need review is your behavior.  You are way to
> > inflammatory and you need to stop stirring up drama.  Your complaints on
> IRC
> > won't be taken seriously until you show that you are willing to
> > constructively engage ops in an attempt to reconcile the issue.
> >
> > --John Reaves
> >
> >
> > On Nov 11, 2007 9:18 PM, White Cat <[hidden email] >
> wrote:
> >
> > >  I am having some serious issues on IRC and wikimedia contacts seem to
> > > be either too busy to help or are completely unwilling to help. I
> > > think the issue needs a review.
> > >
> > >        - White Cat
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

Contacts are James F and Sean Whitton.

--
Alex (Majorly)

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Majorly
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Re: Wikimedia contacts

Majorly
In reply to this post by Angela-5
On 12/11/2007, Angela <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Nov 12, 2007 7:18 PM, White Cat <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > When I ask the freenode staff who to talk to about this problem, they
> > tell me to go talk to the "wikimedia contact" which are not easily
> > accessible people. I am not exactly certain who these "wikimedia
> > contacts" are. It should perhaps be listed somewhere such as meta.
>
> The contacts are listed on meta, but they're not there to resolve
> personal disputes you have with people on IRC. As the page says "the
> contacts have a policy of staying out of channel affairs..."
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Group_Contacts
>
> Angela
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

It's difficult to know who to turn to when the ops are being abusive.

--
Alex (Majorly)

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Majorly
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Re: Wikimedia contacts

White Cat
Indeed. Especially if that op has a higher level of access.
   - White Cat

On Nov 12, 2007 10:27 AM, Majorly <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 12/11/2007, Angela <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On Nov 12, 2007 7:18 PM, White Cat <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > When I ask the freenode staff who to talk to about this problem, they
> > > tell me to go talk to the "wikimedia contact" which are not easily
> > > accessible people. I am not exactly certain who these "wikimedia
> > > contacts" are. It should perhaps be listed somewhere such as meta.
> >
> > The contacts are listed on meta, but they're not there to resolve
> > personal disputes you have with people on IRC. As the page says "the
> > contacts have a policy of staying out of channel affairs..."
> >
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Group_Contacts
> >
> > Angela
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> It's difficult to know who to turn to when the ops are being abusive.
>
> --
> Alex (Majorly)
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Majorly
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

Sean Whitton (Xyrael)
In reply to this post by Angela-5
On 11/12/07, Angela <[hidden email]> wrote:
[snip]
> The contacts are listed on meta, but they're not there to resolve
> personal disputes you have with people on IRC. As the page says "the
> contacts have a policy of staying out of channel affairs..."
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Group_Contacts

For the record, I am the person to go to at the moment rather than
James as he has delegated 99% of the work to me due to other
commitments. You are right though that we try to stay out of this at
all costs. The correct order for escalation of issues is the
following, but really anything past the first few layers is a last
resort:

For #wikipedia:
Op who banned
#wikimedia-ops (where I hope bans are used extremely sparingly)
Deputy Channel Contact, NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly
Channel Contact: Mark_Ryan
IRC Group Contacts

Sean

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

White Cat
NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly is the person issuing the ban on #wikipedia and
#wikimedia-ops. All of those layers are hence useless as she so far
refused to communicate using a non-irc method such as my wikipedia
talk page or email. I do not want to talk to NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly
directly on IRC as I ignored her permanently so as not to rise the
temperature unnecessarily as we end up annoying each other
unintentionally.

 I can't publicly post the log here but can email it to you (in fact
I'll forwarded it after sending this).

     - White Cat

On Nov 12, 2007 12:37 PM, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11/12/07, Angela <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [snip]
> > The contacts are listed on meta, but they're not there to resolve
> > personal disputes you have with people on IRC. As the page says "the
> > contacts have a policy of staying out of channel affairs..."
> >
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Group_Contacts
>
> For the record, I am the person to go to at the moment rather than
> James as he has delegated 99% of the work to me due to other
> commitments. You are right though that we try to stay out of this at
> all costs. The correct order for escalation of issues is the
> following, but really anything past the first few layers is a last
> resort:
>
> For #wikipedia:
> Op who banned
> #wikimedia-ops (where I hope bans are used extremely sparingly)
> Deputy Channel Contact, NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly
> Channel Contact: Mark_Ryan
> IRC Group Contacts
>
> Sean
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
You do not want to talk, but you have a reason to talk and complain to
others.. so you make your bed and now you lay in it. It is not a zero sum
game.
Thanks,
    GerardM

On Nov 12, 2007 11:54 AM, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:

> NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly is the person issuing the ban on #wikipedia and
> #wikimedia-ops. All of those layers are hence useless as she so far
> refused to communicate using a non-irc method such as my wikipedia
> talk page or email. I do not want to talk to NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly
> directly on IRC as I ignored her permanently so as not to rise the
> temperature unnecessarily as we end up annoying each other
> unintentionally.
>
>  I can't publicly post the log here but can email it to you (in fact
> I'll forwarded it after sending this).
>
>     - White Cat
>
> On Nov 12, 2007 12:37 PM, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 11/12/07, Angela <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > The contacts are listed on meta, but they're not there to resolve
> > > personal disputes you have with people on IRC. As the page says "the
> > > contacts have a policy of staying out of channel affairs..."
> > >
> > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Group_Contacts
> >
> > For the record, I am the person to go to at the moment rather than
> > James as he has delegated 99% of the work to me due to other
> > commitments. You are right though that we try to stay out of this at
> > all costs. The correct order for escalation of issues is the
> > following, but really anything past the first few layers is a last
> > resort:
> >
> > For #wikipedia:
> > Op who banned
> > #wikimedia-ops (where I hope bans are used extremely sparingly)
> > Deputy Channel Contact, NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly
> > Channel Contact: Mark_Ryan
> > IRC Group Contacts
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Wikimedia contacts

Dan Collins-2
In reply to this post by White Cat
On Nov 12, 2007 5:54 AM, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:

> NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly is the person issuing the ban on #wikipedia and
> #wikimedia-ops. All of those layers are hence useless as she so far
> refused to communicate using a non-irc method such as my wikipedia
> talk page or email. I do not want to talk to NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly
> directly on IRC as I ignored her permanently so as not to rise the
> temperature unnecessarily as we end up annoying each other
> unintentionally.
>
>  I can't publicly post the log here but can email it to you (in fact
> I'll forwarded it after sending this).
>
>     - White Cat
>
> On Nov 12, 2007 12:37 PM, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 11/12/07, Angela <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > The contacts are listed on meta, but they're not there to resolve
> > > personal disputes you have with people on IRC. As the page says "the
> > > contacts have a policy of staying out of channel affairs..."
> > >
> > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Group_Contacts
> >
> > For the record, I am the person to go to at the moment rather than
> > James as he has delegated 99% of the work to me due to other
> > commitments. You are right though that we try to stay out of this at
> > all costs. The correct order for escalation of issues is the
> > following, but really anything past the first few layers is a last
> > resort:
> >
> > For #wikipedia:
> > Op who banned
> > #wikimedia-ops (where I hope bans are used extremely sparingly)
> > Deputy Channel Contact, NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly
> > Channel Contact: Mark_Ryan
> > IRC Group Contacts
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

Let me just chime in with last night - White_Cat: appearantly Drini, an op,
asked you why you were in #wikipedia-es - Drini wanted to be sure you
weren't leaking logs, and you ignored him. When he banned you, you came to
-ops and asked for help. JohnReaves and myself were on at the time, and we
didn't ignore you, we simply didn't have any power in -es. When Drini
arrived, you refused to unignore him, and there wasn't anything we could do
to help you.

As for the #wikipedia incident, White_Cat was asking for homework
assistance, NotACow posted the solution, but White_Cat was ignoring NotACow.
White_Cat was asking for someone with logs, and didn't see NotACow's
warnings. (NotACow is the deputy channel contact, by the way.)

White_Cat: You want to be unbanned, of course. To do that, you went to -ops
last night - no problem with that. But you can not ignore the only people
who can help you. Your escalation from -ops to email was not necessary, as
there was a user there fully able to help you, had you unignored him and
answered his questions.

And finally, why are we discussing this on foundation-l?

--
ST47
Administrator, en.wikipedia
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Re: Wikimedia contacts

KIZU Naoko
Hello,

On Nov 12, 2007 8:52 PM, Dan Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:

> And finally, why are we discussing this on foundation-l?

Thanks for pointing it out. Possibly to reassure that particular IRC
channel issues are off topic on this mailinglist basically, and this
incident (or those?) are sure falling in this off-topic category, I
suppose ...

So, it is so off-topic that I'd like to avoid giving my opinion about
that here on the list. Perhaps many of others too.

Cheers,
--
KIZU Naoko
Wikiquote <http://wikiquote.org> is a free online project for building
collections of quotations, hosted by Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

White Cat
In reply to this post by Dan Collins-2
Is there any evidence of this leakage is my fault? This is a very
serious accusation! What was the ban based on? Anything? Are we
banning people off of channels over mere paranoia with no basis on
evidence? I could have been contacted by any other op from es-wiki and
infact I was in mid-discussion with one when drini decided to ban me.

I do not even log the channel in question for personal use, let alone
public use. I value my hard drive space and I do not log channels
where the discussion is in a foreign language I do not understand with
the notable exception being #wikipedia-tr which I can understand.

This is a foundation-related issue as it is difficult to find a person
to turn into when things don't flow right. Freenode will not assist
people in trobble as that is the job of wikimedia contacts. Normally
the issue can be resolved in #wikimedia-ops but on situations when
this is not possible there is a virtual void. Freenode staffers would
send me to the foundation and the foundation seems to be not claiming
any responsibility as these are "unofficial" channels. This void
between wikimedia contacts and foundation needs to be filled. The
purpose of this thread is fundamentally that. This problem (the gap)
is hardly exclusive to me.

   - White Cat

On Nov 12, 2007 1:52 PM, Dan Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Nov 12, 2007 5:54 AM, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly is the person issuing the ban on #wikipedia and
> > #wikimedia-ops. All of those layers are hence useless as she so far
> > refused to communicate using a non-irc method such as my wikipedia
> > talk page or email. I do not want to talk to NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly
> > directly on IRC as I ignored her permanently so as not to rise the
> > temperature unnecessarily as we end up annoying each other
> > unintentionally.
> >
> >  I can't publicly post the log here but can email it to you (in fact
> > I'll forwarded it after sending this).
> >
> >     - White Cat
> >
> > On Nov 12, 2007 12:37 PM, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On 11/12/07, Angela <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > > > The contacts are listed on meta, but they're not there to resolve
> > > > personal disputes you have with people on IRC. As the page says "the
> > > > contacts have a policy of staying out of channel affairs..."
> > > >
> > > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Group_Contacts
> > >
> > > For the record, I am the person to go to at the moment rather than
> > > James as he has delegated 99% of the work to me due to other
> > > commitments. You are right though that we try to stay out of this at
> > > all costs. The correct order for escalation of issues is the
> > > following, but really anything past the first few layers is a last
> > > resort:
> > >
> > > For #wikipedia:
> > > Op who banned
> > > #wikimedia-ops (where I hope bans are used extremely sparingly)
> > > Deputy Channel Contact, NotACow/kayrnn/Kelly
> > > Channel Contact: Mark_Ryan
> > > IRC Group Contacts
> > >
> > > Sean
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> Let me just chime in with last night - White_Cat: appearantly Drini, an op,
> asked you why you were in #wikipedia-es - Drini wanted to be sure you
> weren't leaking logs, and you ignored him. When he banned you, you came to
> -ops and asked for help. JohnReaves and myself were on at the time, and we
> didn't ignore you, we simply didn't have any power in -es. When Drini
> arrived, you refused to unignore him, and there wasn't anything we could do
> to help you.
>
> As for the #wikipedia incident, White_Cat was asking for homework
> assistance, NotACow posted the solution, but White_Cat was ignoring NotACow.
> White_Cat was asking for someone with logs, and didn't see NotACow's
> warnings. (NotACow is the deputy channel contact, by the way.)
>
> White_Cat: You want to be unbanned, of course. To do that, you went to -ops
> last night - no problem with that. But you can not ignore the only people
> who can help you. Your escalation from -ops to email was not necessary, as
> there was a user there fully able to help you, had you unignored him and
> answered his questions.
>
> And finally, why are we discussing this on foundation-l?
>
> --
> ST47
> Administrator, en.wikipedia
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

Pedro Sanchez-2
In reply to this post by KIZU Naoko
On Nov 12, 2007 6:13 AM, Aphaia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Nov 12, 2007 8:52 PM, Dan Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > And finally, why are we discussing this on foundation-l?
>
> Thanks for pointing it out. Possibly to reassure that particular IRC
> channel issues are off topic on this mailinglist basically, and this
> incident (or those?) are sure falling in this off-topic category, I
> suppose ...
>
> So, it is so off-topic that I'd like to avoid giving my opinion about
> that here on the list. Perhaps many of others too.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> KIZU Naoko
> Wikiquote <http://wikiquote.org> is a free online project for building
> collections of quotations, hosted by Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
>

Yes this is SO offtopic:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-June/030884.html

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

White Cat
Where am I supposed to post it then?

    - White Cat

On Nov 12, 2007 6:25 PM, Pedro Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Nov 12, 2007 6:13 AM, Aphaia <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > On Nov 12, 2007 8:52 PM, Dan Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > And finally, why are we discussing this on foundation-l?
> >
> > Thanks for pointing it out. Possibly to reassure that particular IRC
> > channel issues are off topic on this mailinglist basically, and this
> > incident (or those?) are sure falling in this off-topic category, I
> > suppose ...
> >
> > So, it is so off-topic that I'd like to avoid giving my opinion about
> > that here on the list. Perhaps many of others too.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > --
> > KIZU Naoko
> > Wikiquote <http://wikiquote.org> is a free online project for building
> > collections of quotations, hosted by Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> > Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
> >
>
> Yes this is SO offtopic:
>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-June/030884.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

Comet styles
Discussions should be done of IRC and not taken to mailing lists but
it that depends on the circumstances surrounding the discussion in
which case talk to channel contacts and if they can't solve it, take
it to OTRS.

On Nov 13, 2007 4:32 AM, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Where am I supposed to post it then?
>
>     - White Cat
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2007 6:25 PM, Pedro Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Nov 12, 2007 6:13 AM, Aphaia <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > On Nov 12, 2007 8:52 PM, Dan Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > And finally, why are we discussing this on foundation-l?
> > >
> > > Thanks for pointing it out. Possibly to reassure that particular IRC
> > > channel issues are off topic on this mailinglist basically, and this
> > > incident (or those?) are sure falling in this off-topic category, I
> > > suppose ...
> > >
> > > So, it is so off-topic that I'd like to avoid giving my opinion about
> > > that here on the list. Perhaps many of others too.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > --
> > > KIZU Naoko
> > > Wikiquote <http://wikiquote.org> is a free online project for building
> > > collections of quotations, hosted by Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> > > Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
> > >
> >
> > Yes this is SO offtopic:
> >
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-June/030884.html
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Cometstyles

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Wikimedia contacts

John Reaves
In reply to this post by White Cat
Stop complaining, there's IRC discussion on this list all of the time (not
that this one needs continuation).

--John Reaves


On Nov 12, 2007 11:32 AM, White Cat < [hidden email]>
wrote:

> Where am I supposed to post it then?
>
>    - White Cat
>
> On Nov 12, 2007 6:25 PM, Pedro Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Nov 12, 2007 6:13 AM, Aphaia < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > On Nov 12, 2007 8:52 PM, Dan Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > And finally, why are we discussing this on foundation-l?
> > >
> > > Thanks for pointing it out. Possibly to reassure that particular IRC
> > > channel issues are off topic on this mailinglist basically, and this
> > > incident (or those?) are sure falling in this off-topic category, I
> > > suppose ...
> > >
> > > So, it is so off-topic that I'd like to avoid giving my opinion about
> > > that here on the list. Perhaps many of others too.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > --
> > > KIZU Naoko
> > > Wikiquote <http://wikiquote.org> is a free online project for building
> > > collections of quotations, hosted by Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> > > Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
> > >
> >
> > Yes this is SO offtopic:
> >
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-June/030884.html
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Wikimedia contacts

Michael Bimmler
In reply to this post by Comet styles
On Nov 12, 2007 6:53 PM, Comet styles <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Discussions should be done of IRC and not taken to mailing lists but
> it that depends on the circumstances surrounding the discussion in
> which case talk to channel contacts and if they can't solve it, take
> it to OTRS.

I agree with everything up to the last point. How and why on earth
should OTRS people be asked to deal with such things? At least some of
the OTRS people don't even use IRC and I don't why they, as Wikimedia
Support Team, should become involved with intra-community issues...

Michael

>
> On Nov 13, 2007 4:32 AM, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Where am I supposed to post it then?
> >
> >     - White Cat
> >
> >
> > On Nov 12, 2007 6:25 PM, Pedro Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On Nov 12, 2007 6:13 AM, Aphaia <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 12, 2007 8:52 PM, Dan Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > And finally, why are we discussing this on foundation-l?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for pointing it out. Possibly to reassure that particular IRC
> > > > channel issues are off topic on this mailinglist basically, and this
> > > > incident (or those?) are sure falling in this off-topic category, I
> > > > suppose ...
> > > >
> > > > So, it is so off-topic that I'd like to avoid giving my opinion about
> > > > that here on the list. Perhaps many of others too.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > --
> > > > KIZU Naoko
> > > > Wikiquote <http://wikiquote.org> is a free online project for building
> > > > collections of quotations, hosted by Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> > > > Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yes this is SO offtopic:
> > >
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-June/030884.html
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Cometstyles
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

White Cat
OTRS? Under whose directive do the have greater authority than
wikimedia contacts? They certainly are not the right address for such
issues.

I already explained this issue cannot be resolved on IRC JamesF is
busy. Seanw may help but this issue probably exceeded his deputy role
as a deputy contact.

My complaint isn't over the specific issue involving me. We have a
large gap between the foundation and the wikimedia contacts. If users
have problems with wikimedia contacts or if the wikimedia contacts are
not available for whatever the reason I should be able to resolve the
issue somehow. Right now thats the gap and the point of this inquiry.

       - White Cat

On Nov 12, 2007 7:59 PM, Michael Bimmler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Nov 12, 2007 6:53 PM, Comet styles <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Discussions should be done of IRC and not taken to mailing lists but
> > it that depends on the circumstances surrounding the discussion in
> > which case talk to channel contacts and if they can't solve it, take
> > it to OTRS.
>
> I agree with everything up to the last point. How and why on earth
> should OTRS people be asked to deal with such things? At least some of
> the OTRS people don't even use IRC and I don't why they, as Wikimedia
> Support Team, should become involved with intra-community issues...
>
> Michael
>
>
> >
> > On Nov 13, 2007 4:32 AM, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Where am I supposed to post it then?
> > >
> > >     - White Cat
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 12, 2007 6:25 PM, Pedro Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 12, 2007 6:13 AM, Aphaia <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > On Nov 12, 2007 8:52 PM, Dan Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > And finally, why are we discussing this on foundation-l?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for pointing it out. Possibly to reassure that particular IRC
> > > > > channel issues are off topic on this mailinglist basically, and this
> > > > > incident (or those?) are sure falling in this off-topic category, I
> > > > > suppose ...
> > > > >
> > > > > So, it is so off-topic that I'd like to avoid giving my opinion about
> > > > > that here on the list. Perhaps many of others too.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > --
> > > > > KIZU Naoko
> > > > > Wikiquote <http://wikiquote.org> is a free online project for building
> > > > > collections of quotations, hosted by Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> > > > > Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes this is SO offtopic:
> > > >
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-June/030884.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cometstyles
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Wikimedia contacts

Brad Patrick
Sorry, I disagree with you.  There *is* and *should be* a large gap between
WMF and the sort of thing you are complaining about here.  Don't expect
Anthere or Jimbo to reach out and "resolve" a dispute you have, especially
on IRC.  The organization is not required to do anything to help you.  This
is a self-governing system, and right now, you appear to be on the wrong
side of those who have greater power than you.

Relax.  It's only Wikipedia.

Brad

On Nov 12, 2007 1:15 PM, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:

> OTRS? Under whose directive do the have greater authority than
> wikimedia contacts? They certainly are not the right address for such
> issues.
>
> I already explained this issue cannot be resolved on IRC JamesF is
> busy. Seanw may help but this issue probably exceeded his deputy role
> as a deputy contact.
>
> My complaint isn't over the specific issue involving me. We have a
> large gap between the foundation and the wikimedia contacts. If users
> have problems with wikimedia contacts or if the wikimedia contacts are
> not available for whatever the reason I should be able to resolve the
> issue somehow. Right now thats the gap and the point of this inquiry.
>
>       - White Cat
>
> On Nov 12, 2007 7:59 PM, Michael Bimmler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Nov 12, 2007 6:53 PM, Comet styles <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Discussions should be done of IRC and not taken to mailing lists but
> > > it that depends on the circumstances surrounding the discussion in
> > > which case talk to channel contacts and if they can't solve it, take
> > > it to OTRS.
> >
> > I agree with everything up to the last point. How and why on earth
> > should OTRS people be asked to deal with such things? At least some of
> > the OTRS people don't even use IRC and I don't why they, as Wikimedia
> > Support Team, should become involved with intra-community issues...
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Nov 13, 2007 4:32 AM, White Cat <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > > Where am I supposed to post it then?
> > > >
> > > >     - White Cat
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 12, 2007 6:25 PM, Pedro Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > On Nov 12, 2007 6:13 AM, Aphaia <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Nov 12, 2007 8:52 PM, Dan Collins <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > And finally, why are we discussing this on foundation-l?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for pointing it out. Possibly to reassure that particular
> IRC
> > > > > > channel issues are off topic on this mailinglist basically, and
> this
> > > > > > incident (or those?) are sure falling in this off-topic
> category, I
> > > > > > suppose ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, it is so off-topic that I'd like to avoid giving my opinion
> about
> > > > > > that here on the list. Perhaps many of others too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > KIZU Naoko
> > > > > > Wikiquote <http://wikiquote.org> is a free online project for
> building
> > > > > > collections of quotations, hosted by Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> > > > > > Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes this is SO offtopic:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-June/030884.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cometstyles
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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