[Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

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[Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Samuel Patton
Hi all, it's Sam from the online fundraising team. I wanted to give you a
heads up about a desktop banner we'd like to test before the official
launch of our 'Big English' fundraising banner campaign on Tuesday,
November 28.

TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if it's
worth iteration and improvement.

Here's a link to the banner:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1

This banner would run against our current best desktop large banner; here's
that link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=B1718_1101_en6C_dsk_p1_lg_template&force=1&country=US

Undoubtedly, it's an unusual format; that's why we felt it appropriate to
give you a heads up :) We haven't tried a vertical 'banner on the side' in
recent memory, and it'll be useful to see exactly how this type of content
performs.

This test would run for 1 to 2 hours, and then we'd evaluate results to see
if it's worth spending any more time on the concept. For now, we're simply
hiding the banner all together below 920px, as at smaller viewports it
begins to interfere with site navigation elements.

If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will be
more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
promising enough to keep testing.

Regards and sincere thanks for all you do.

Sam
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Gergo Tisza
Hi Samuel,

thanks for being circumspect about the new banner design!

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Samuel Patton <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will be
> more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
> promising enough to keep testing.
>

It looks quite nice on a large monitor; a bit cramped but not tragic on my
laptop (1080px, but probably physical size matters more than resolution).
OTOH it looks quite confusing [1] with the three-column skin Timeless,
regardless of screen size. (See deployment plans [2]; not sure if any of
those wikis are involved in the fundraiser. If they are, I'd suggest
whitelisting the skin.)


[1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Warnier?banner=
dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1&useskin=timeless
[2] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T154371
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Liam Wyatt
In reply to this post by Samuel Patton
>
> TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if it's
> worth iteration and improvement.
>
> Here's a link to the banner:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_
> right10&country=US&force=1


I appreciate that you're trying to innovate, and this requires pushing
boundaries. I also appreciate that the WMF fundraising principle "minimal
disruption"[1] is subjective thing - and that the WMF has traditionally
taken this to mean "be disruptive for the shortest period" rather than "be
less disruptive overall, even if it takes longer".
However, I do feel that *resizing all the article content to the left, and
occupying the entire right side third of the screen with a donation request
that follows me as I scroll *is significantly more than minimally
disruptive. Personally, I would request that this design approach not be
pursued on that basis.

-Liam / Wittylama

p.s. Also, on my screen at least, the "x" dismiss button in the top-right
is so small that it hides under Chrome's translucent scrollbar

[1] that https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_principles#Fundraising
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

metasj
In reply to this post by Samuel Patton
Sam, Thanks for the heads up!  Is there any measure of the negative impact
of a banner (in distraction, self-reported annoyance, abandoned sessions),
separate from its fundraising impact?  I imagine some very noticeable
banners will have high positives as well as negatives; then the question
would be what tradeoffs to make.

On side banners: have there been recent experiments with a thin side banner
in the l.h.s. column?

===
For this test (happen to be on a Win machine today):  Win/IE has render
troubles; covers some of the r.h.s. of the page. Win/Chrome doesn't show it
at all for me; even when turning off all extensions.  The corner 'x' is
hard to see.  text in some boxes is cut off ('Other').   It's not clear how
'Other' works.
Generally: looks busy.  Recurring issues:  Loading after the rest of the
page can be confusing on slow connections.  Underlined text in the quote
that isn't a hyperlink is confusing (and could link to appropriate detail).

Warmly, SJ


On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Samuel Patton <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi all, it's Sam from the online fundraising team. I wanted to give you a
> heads up about a desktop banner we'd like to test before the official
> launch of our 'Big English' fundraising banner campaign on Tuesday,
> November 28.
>
> TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if it's
> worth iteration and improvement.
>
> Here's a link to the banner:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_
> right10&country=US&force=1
>
> This banner would run against our current best desktop large banner; here's
> that link:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=B1718_1101_en6C_
> dsk_p1_lg_template&force=1&country=US
>
> Undoubtedly, it's an unusual format; that's why we felt it appropriate to
> give you a heads up :) We haven't tried a vertical 'banner on the side' in
> recent memory, and it'll be useful to see exactly how this type of content
> performs.
>
> This test would run for 1 to 2 hours, and then we'd evaluate results to see
> if it's worth spending any more time on the concept. For now, we're simply
> hiding the banner all together below 920px, as at smaller viewports it
> begins to interfere with site navigation elements.
>
> If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will be
> more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
> promising enough to keep testing.
>
> Regards and sincere thanks for all you do.
>
> Sam
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>




--
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Richard Ames
In reply to this post by Samuel Patton
I like it! as it doesn't cover up the article I came to read.  Contrary to
Liam, it worked well for me in Linux/Firefox and Linux/Chrome.

Regards, Richard.

On 15 November 2017 at 09:12, Samuel Patton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all, it's Sam from the online fundraising team. I wanted to give you a
> heads up about a desktop banner we'd like to test before the official
> launch of our 'Big English' fundraising banner campaign on Tuesday,
> November 28.
>
> TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if it's
> worth iteration and improvement.
>
> Here's a link to the banner:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_
> right10&country=US&force=1
> <snip>
> If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will be
> more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
> promising enough to keep testing.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Peter Southwood
In reply to this post by Samuel Patton
The sidebar version is less offensive than the top banner on my widescreen desktop. The message and text sizing is also better in the sidebar version
Cheers,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Samuel Patton
Sent: Wednesday, 15 November 2017 12:13 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Hi all, it's Sam from the online fundraising team. I wanted to give you a heads up about a desktop banner we'd like to test before the official launch of our 'Big English' fundraising banner campaign on Tuesday, November 28.

TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if it's worth iteration and improvement.

Here's a link to the banner:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1

This banner would run against our current best desktop large banner; here's that link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=B1718_1101_en6C_dsk_p1_lg_template&force=1&country=US

Undoubtedly, it's an unusual format; that's why we felt it appropriate to give you a heads up :) We haven't tried a vertical 'banner on the side' in recent memory, and it'll be useful to see exactly how this type of content performs.

This test would run for 1 to 2 hours, and then we'd evaluate results to see if it's worth spending any more time on the concept. For now, we're simply hiding the banner all together below 920px, as at smaller viewports it begins to interfere with site navigation elements.

If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will be more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks promising enough to keep testing.

Regards and sincere thanks for all you do.

Sam
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Ziko van Dijk-3
Hello,
I like it too, actually better than the earlier one. Looks good on the
tablet; can be clicked away (the X seems to be a little fable).
Kind regards,
Ziko


Peter Southwood <[hidden email]> schrieb am Mi. 15. Nov. 2017
um 08:16:

> The sidebar version is less offensive than the top banner on my widescreen
> desktop. The message and text sizing is also better in the sidebar version
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Samuel Patton
> Sent: Wednesday, 15 November 2017 12:13 AM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short
> test
>
> Hi all, it's Sam from the online fundraising team. I wanted to give you a
> heads up about a desktop banner we'd like to test before the official
> launch of our 'Big English' fundraising banner campaign on Tuesday,
> November 28.
>
> TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if it's
> worth iteration and improvement.
>
> Here's a link to the banner:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1
>
> This banner would run against our current best desktop large banner;
> here's that link:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=B1718_1101_en6C_dsk_p1_lg_template&force=1&country=US
>
> Undoubtedly, it's an unusual format; that's why we felt it appropriate to
> give you a heads up :) We haven't tried a vertical 'banner on the side' in
> recent memory, and it'll be useful to see exactly how this type of content
> performs.
>
> This test would run for 1 to 2 hours, and then we'd evaluate results to
> see if it's worth spending any more time on the concept. For now, we're
> simply hiding the banner all together below 920px, as at smaller viewports
> it begins to interfere with site navigation elements.
>
> If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will be
> more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
> promising enough to keep testing.
>
> Regards and sincere thanks for all you do.
>
> Sam
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> ---
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> http://www.avg.com
>
>
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Mardetanha-2
both are equally ugly, they should much more smaller, current banner should
1/10 or 1/8th of a page not half of it.

Mardetanha

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
> I like it too, actually better than the earlier one. Looks good on the
> tablet; can be clicked away (the X seems to be a little fable).
> Kind regards,
> Ziko
>
>
> Peter Southwood <[hidden email]> schrieb am Mi. 15. Nov.
> 2017
> um 08:16:
>
> > The sidebar version is less offensive than the top banner on my
> widescreen
> > desktop. The message and text sizing is also better in the sidebar
> version
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> > Behalf Of Samuel Patton
> > Sent: Wednesday, 15 November 2017 12:13 AM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short
> > test
> >
> > Hi all, it's Sam from the online fundraising team. I wanted to give you a
> > heads up about a desktop banner we'd like to test before the official
> > launch of our 'Big English' fundraising banner campaign on Tuesday,
> > November 28.
> >
> > TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if it's
> > worth iteration and improvement.
> >
> > Here's a link to the banner:
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_
> right10&country=US&force=1
> >
> > This banner would run against our current best desktop large banner;
> > here's that link:
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=B1718_1101_en6C_
> dsk_p1_lg_template&force=1&country=US
> >
> > Undoubtedly, it's an unusual format; that's why we felt it appropriate to
> > give you a heads up :) We haven't tried a vertical 'banner on the side'
> in
> > recent memory, and it'll be useful to see exactly how this type of
> content
> > performs.
> >
> > This test would run for 1 to 2 hours, and then we'd evaluate results to
> > see if it's worth spending any more time on the concept. For now, we're
> > simply hiding the banner all together below 920px, as at smaller
> viewports
> > it begins to interfere with site navigation elements.
> >
> > If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will
> be
> > more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
> > promising enough to keep testing.
> >
> > Regards and sincere thanks for all you do.
> >
> > Sam
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > http://www.avg.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Mathieu Stumpf Guntz
Well, I'm not skilled in marketing, but maybe being ugly and annoyingly
large is part of the "pay attention" driving force.

Regarding the format, as said I'm not sikilled in the domain, so my
opinion surely doesn't worth much. The good old vertical banner is
definitely simpler, so it might be a better way to catch initial
attention, then once you clicked you will also have to make all the rest
of the input, but you are already a bit engaged. On the other hand the
more complete form say "hey you just fill this few fields, and you are
done, there are no additional form pages hidden behind the next button".
But really that just the thought of an ignorant on the matter. :)

Will you publish results of your tests somewhere? Maybe it would be an
occasion to feed a bit some of our wiki on the topic. Here are some
related links:

  * https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Portal:Marketing
  * https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Marketing
  * https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/School:Business


Le 15/11/2017 à 09:34, Mardetanha a écrit :

> both are equally ugly, they should much more smaller, current banner should
> 1/10 or 1/8th of a page not half of it.
>
> Mardetanha
>
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> I like it too, actually better than the earlier one. Looks good on the
>> tablet; can be clicked away (the X seems to be a little fable).
>> Kind regards,
>> Ziko
>>
>>
>> Peter Southwood <[hidden email]> schrieb am Mi. 15. Nov.
>> 2017
>> um 08:16:
>>
>>> The sidebar version is less offensive than the top banner on my
>> widescreen
>>> desktop. The message and text sizing is also better in the sidebar
>> version
>>> Cheers,
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>>> Behalf Of Samuel Patton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 15 November 2017 12:13 AM
>>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
>>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short
>>> test
>>>
>>> Hi all, it's Sam from the online fundraising team. I wanted to give you a
>>> heads up about a desktop banner we'd like to test before the official
>>> launch of our 'Big English' fundraising banner campaign on Tuesday,
>>> November 28.
>>>
>>> TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if it's
>>> worth iteration and improvement.
>>>
>>> Here's a link to the banner:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_
>> right10&country=US&force=1
>>> This banner would run against our current best desktop large banner;
>>> here's that link:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=B1718_1101_en6C_
>> dsk_p1_lg_template&force=1&country=US
>>> Undoubtedly, it's an unusual format; that's why we felt it appropriate to
>>> give you a heads up :) We haven't tried a vertical 'banner on the side'
>> in
>>> recent memory, and it'll be useful to see exactly how this type of
>> content
>>> performs.
>>>
>>> This test would run for 1 to 2 hours, and then we'd evaluate results to
>>> see if it's worth spending any more time on the concept. For now, we're
>>> simply hiding the banner all together below 920px, as at smaller
>> viewports
>>> it begins to interfere with site navigation elements.
>>>
>>> If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will
>> be
>>> more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
>>> promising enough to keep testing.
>>>
>>> Regards and sincere thanks for all you do.
>>>
>>> Sam
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> http://www.avg.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
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>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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>>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

pajz
In reply to this post by Liam Wyatt
>
> This test would run for 1 to 2 hours, and then we'd evaluate results to see
> if it's worth spending any more time on the concept. For now, we're simply
> hiding the banner all together below 920px, as at smaller viewports it
> begins to interfere with site navigation elements.


It is truly an amazing banner, as it might be the first donation banner in
the history of donation banners that actually improve the readability of
our content. Indeed, we have never been closer to line length
recommendations for optimal readability than with this banner.

Patrik


On 15 November 2017 at 01:25, Liam Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >
> > TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if it's
> > worth iteration and improvement.
> >
> > Here's a link to the banner:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_
> > right10&country=US&force=1
>
>
> I appreciate that you're trying to innovate, and this requires pushing
> boundaries. I also appreciate that the WMF fundraising principle "minimal
> disruption"[1] is subjective thing - and that the WMF has traditionally
> taken this to mean "be disruptive for the shortest period" rather than "be
> less disruptive overall, even if it takes longer".
> However, I do feel that *resizing all the article content to the left, and
> occupying the entire right side third of the screen with a donation request
> that follows me as I scroll *is significantly more than minimally
> disruptive. Personally, I would request that this design approach not be
> pursued on that basis.
>
> -Liam / Wittylama
>
> p.s. Also, on my screen at least, the "x" dismiss button in the top-right
> is so small that it hides under Chrome's translucent scrollbar
>
> [1] that https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_principles#
> Fundraising
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Mormegil
In reply to this post by Samuel Patton
Hi,

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Samuel Patton <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will be
> more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
> promising enough to keep testing.
>

A slightly different aspect: Why does the banner show in Slovak for me
(English Wikipedia with English as UI language, Accept-Language:
en-US,en;q=0.7,cs;q=0.3) and where do the texts/translations come from? I
tried to find them on TranslateWiki but failed. They do not seem to be at
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/EDOI/browse/master/gateway_common/i18n/interface/en.json
either.

Thanks,
-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

John Mark Vandenberg
In reply to this post by pajz
Patrik, try it on a 640x480 screen. :P

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 16:06 pajz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >
> > This test would run for 1 to 2 hours, and then we'd evaluate results to
> see
> > if it's worth spending any more time on the concept. For now, we're
> simply
> > hiding the banner all together below 920px, as at smaller viewports it
> > begins to interfere with site navigation elements.
>
>
> It is truly an amazing banner, as it might be the first donation banner in
> the history of donation banners that actually improve the readability of
> our content. Indeed, we have never been closer to line length
> recommendations for optimal readability than with this banner.
>
> Patrik
>
>
> On 15 November 2017 at 01:25, Liam Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if it's
> > > worth iteration and improvement.
> > >
> > > Here's a link to the banner:
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_
> > > right10&country=US&force=1
> >
> >
> > I appreciate that you're trying to innovate, and this requires pushing
> > boundaries. I also appreciate that the WMF fundraising principle "minimal
> > disruption"[1] is subjective thing - and that the WMF has traditionally
> > taken this to mean "be disruptive for the shortest period" rather than
> "be
> > less disruptive overall, even if it takes longer".
> > However, I do feel that *resizing all the article content to the left,
> and
> > occupying the entire right side third of the screen with a donation
> request
> > that follows me as I scroll *is significantly more than minimally
> > disruptive. Personally, I would request that this design approach not be
> > pursued on that basis.
> >
> > -Liam / Wittylama
> >
> > p.s. Also, on my screen at least, the "x" dismiss button in the top-right
> > is so small that it hides under Chrome's translucent scrollbar
> >
> > [1] that https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_principles#
> > Fundraising
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

John Erling Blad
What kind of reasonably new device has that kind of resolution?

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 12:41 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Patrik, try it on a 640x480 screen. :P
>
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 16:06 pajz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > This test would run for 1 to 2 hours, and then we'd evaluate results to
> > see
> > > if it's worth spending any more time on the concept. For now, we're
> > simply
> > > hiding the banner all together below 920px, as at smaller viewports it
> > > begins to interfere with site navigation elements.
> >
> >
> > It is truly an amazing banner, as it might be the first donation banner
> in
> > the history of donation banners that actually improve the readability of
> > our content. Indeed, we have never been closer to line length
> > recommendations for optimal readability than with this banner.
> >
> > Patrik
> >
> >
> > On 15 November 2017 at 01:25, Liam Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if
> it's
> > > > worth iteration and improvement.
> > > >
> > > > Here's a link to the banner:
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_
> > > > right10&country=US&force=1
> > >
> > >
> > > I appreciate that you're trying to innovate, and this requires pushing
> > > boundaries. I also appreciate that the WMF fundraising principle
> "minimal
> > > disruption"[1] is subjective thing - and that the WMF has traditionally
> > > taken this to mean "be disruptive for the shortest period" rather than
> > "be
> > > less disruptive overall, even if it takes longer".
> > > However, I do feel that *resizing all the article content to the left,
> > and
> > > occupying the entire right side third of the screen with a donation
> > request
> > > that follows me as I scroll *is significantly more than minimally
> > > disruptive. Personally, I would request that this design approach not
> be
> > > pursued on that basis.
> > >
> > > -Liam / Wittylama
> > >
> > > p.s. Also, on my screen at least, the "x" dismiss button in the
> top-right
> > > is so small that it hides under Chrome's translucent scrollbar
> > >
> > > [1] that https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_principles#
> > > Fundraising
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Samuel Patton
I want to thank everyone for this robust discussion! We appreciate the
feedback very much. I want to recognize the role that Joseph Seddon has
played in encouraging us to share more results with this email list; he's
the #1 reason that I started this thread.

I also want to thank Peter Coombe, my teammate on the banner crew, for
suggesting so many of the notes that I am about to provide. His insight
into mediawiki and the more mysterious parts of centralnotice are a
constant value.

Lots of responses:

   - I received a note off-thread re: bad wrapping of the Read/edit/more
   links between 920 - 1060px. We'll take another pass at that.


   - Agreed about the Close X. We'll make that clearer and easier to click.


   - This is a good opportunity to reiterate that the norm for us is to
   only show a single 'large' banner, per device, in a given fundraising
   campaign. It usually serves as a reader's first banner impression, converts
   extremely well, and then we move to 'small' banners. Sometimes we test
   alternate sequences, but this is normal for the vast majority of readers.


   - This banner is a desktop banner; it will not be shown to anyone on the
   mobile site. However, it is possible for you to follow the preview link I
   provided on any device. If you were viewing on a large phone or tablet, it
   might have seemed particularly strange.


   - Gergo Tisza, issues with the Timeless skin will not be a problem,
   because this banner will only be targeted to logged out users who can not
   pick a custom skin.


   - Petr Kadlec, this work-in-progress banner is using some copy written
   in English, as well as a couple translation templates; the final version
   will all be hardcoded English. However, your bug sounds strange - could you
   try opening the link in an incognito browser and, if you're still getting a
   problem, send me a screenshot?


   - Samuel Klein, that red underline is a pretty consistent element in our
   designs. For what it's worth, we actually tried a version where the
   underline did function as a hyperlink, but it had no effect on giving rate.
   Thanks for your other testing notes!


   - Additionally: we run surveys to try to understand reader and donor
   views on how obtrusive and frequent our on-Wikipedia fundraising campaigns
   are perceived to be. We consistently see feedback that the quantity of
   banners is "about right," and that the banners are, to most people, not
   overly aggressive.

We'll all be monitoring this thread; thank you, again, to everyone who took
the time to respond. In all honesty, I am mostly un-circumspect. I believe
that we have to take risks and try many new ideas; wins, and losses, in our
work are both frequent and often surprising. I'd point to a blog post we
published recently
<https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/10/03/fundraising-banner-limit/> that
shows the diminishing returns of banner impressions over the course of one
of our campaigns. It is not true that we could simply run more banners, for
longer periods of time, and expect the same returns.

It's a constant process of experimentation and I appreciate having such an
engaged community to review, improve, and motivate our work.

regards,
sam

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 8:23 AM, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What kind of reasonably new device has that kind of resolution?
>
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 12:41 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Patrik, try it on a 640x480 screen. :P
> >
> > On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 16:06 pajz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > This test would run for 1 to 2 hours, and then we'd evaluate results
> to
> > > see
> > > > if it's worth spending any more time on the concept. For now, we're
> > > simply
> > > > hiding the banner all together below 920px, as at smaller viewports
> it
> > > > begins to interfere with site navigation elements.
> > >
> > >
> > > It is truly an amazing banner, as it might be the first donation banner
> > in
> > > the history of donation banners that actually improve the readability
> of
> > > our content. Indeed, we have never been closer to line length
> > > recommendations for optimal readability than with this banner.
> > >
> > > Patrik
> > >
> > >
> > > On 15 November 2017 at 01:25, Liam Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if
> > it's
> > > > > worth iteration and improvement.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's a link to the banner:
> > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_
> > > > > right10&country=US&force=1
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I appreciate that you're trying to innovate, and this requires
> pushing
> > > > boundaries. I also appreciate that the WMF fundraising principle
> > "minimal
> > > > disruption"[1] is subjective thing - and that the WMF has
> traditionally
> > > > taken this to mean "be disruptive for the shortest period" rather
> than
> > > "be
> > > > less disruptive overall, even if it takes longer".
> > > > However, I do feel that *resizing all the article content to the
> left,
> > > and
> > > > occupying the entire right side third of the screen with a donation
> > > request
> > > > that follows me as I scroll *is significantly more than minimally
> > > > disruptive. Personally, I would request that this design approach not
> > be
> > > > pursued on that basis.
> > > >
> > > > -Liam / Wittylama
> > > >
> > > > p.s. Also, on my screen at least, the "x" dismiss button in the
> > top-right
> > > > is so small that it hides under Chrome's translucent scrollbar
> > > >
> > > > [1] that https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_principles#
> > > > Fundraising
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
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> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

geni
In reply to this post by Samuel Patton
On 14 November 2017 at 22:12, Samuel Patton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will be
> more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
> promising enough to keep testing.
>
> Regards and sincere thanks for all you do.
>


Covers up half the periodic table on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table?banner=dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1

In fact lets just face it this thing does not like tables:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF_400mm_lens?banner=dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1

It overlaps longer equations (see around the Efficient methods section):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximations_of_%CF%80?banner=dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1

I suspect it also breaks with lilypond but I don't have an example to hand




--
geni

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Mormegil
In reply to this post by Samuel Patton
Hi,

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Samuel Patton <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>    - Petr Kadlec, this work-in-progress banner is using some copy written
>    in English, as well as a couple translation templates; the final version
>    will all be hardcoded English. However, your bug sounds strange - could
> you
>    try opening the link in an incognito browser and, if you're still
> getting a
>    problem, send me a screenshot?
>

In an incognito browser, the banner shows in English. If I log in in an
incognito window and open the banner afterwards, it opens in a mixture of
English and Slovak, the text is in English but _some_ of the UI elements
are in Slovak, e.g. “Just Once”, but “Vyberte spôsob platby‎”; or “The
Wikimedia Foundation is a nonprofit, tax-exempt organization. Mesačné
platby budú pripisované na účet nadácie Wikimedia Foundation dovtedy, kým
nepožiadate o ich zastavenie.” (As I said, I have Czech as the UI language,
and Slovak is a fallback language for Czech, so there is _some_ method in
it, I guess.)

-- [[:cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
In reply to this post by geni
On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:35 AM, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14 November 2017 at 22:12, Samuel Patton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will
> be
> > more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
> > promising enough to keep testing.
> >
> > Regards and sincere thanks for all you do.
> >
>
>
> Covers up half the periodic table on:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table?banner=dsk_p1_
> lg_right10&country=US&force=1
>
> In fact lets just face it this thing does not like tables:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF_400mm_lens?banner=
> dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1
>
> It overlaps longer equations (see around the Efficient methods section):
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximations_of_%CF%80?
> banner=dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1
>
> I suspect it also breaks with lilypond but I don't have an example to hand
>

It would be more accurate to say that it overlaps content that overflows
the 'content' div, whatever the reason for the overflow. And it may lead to
overflow in more situations, since it reduces the area available to the
content div. The usual horizontal scrolling that happens for content that
overflows the content div doesn't work right with the banner in place
because the scrolling takes effect on the body element rather than the
content div. Using the close button on the banner does seem to return these
pages to the status quo.

I see the Timeless skin has a vaguely similar issue (without the banner).
That skin does apply the horizontal scrolling to the content div, but the
scrollbar is way at the bottom of the page instead of at the bottom of the
screen.


--
Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
Senior Software Engineer
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

J.
I like it. Gets right to the point. However, the wording is weasely: e.g.-
"averaging about $15". I would vote to have it say "$18" and omit the
redunantly redundant weasely "averaging about", then put a button for
$1.50, recurring monthly. That will hit the $18. I am not sure why y'alls
say "averaging about $15" and then ask for $3. Ask for $18, broken down to
$1.50 per month. Anybody can afford that without risk of maxing out their
charge card. Having fun! Cheers! Wayne

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 8:28 AM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:35 AM, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 14 November 2017 at 22:12, Samuel Patton <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will
> > be
> > > more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
> > > promising enough to keep testing.
> > >
> > > Regards and sincere thanks for all you do.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Covers up half the periodic table on:
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table?banner=dsk_p1_
> > lg_right10&country=US&force=1
> >
> > In fact lets just face it this thing does not like tables:
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF_400mm_lens?banner=
> > dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1
> >
> > It overlaps longer equations (see around the Efficient methods section):
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximations_of_%CF%80?
> > banner=dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1
> >
> > I suspect it also breaks with lilypond but I don't have an example to
> hand
> >
>
> It would be more accurate to say that it overlaps content that overflows
> the 'content' div, whatever the reason for the overflow. And it may lead to
> overflow in more situations, since it reduces the area available to the
> content div. The usual horizontal scrolling that happens for content that
> overflows the content div doesn't work right with the banner in place
> because the scrolling takes effect on the body element rather than the
> content div. Using the close button on the banner does seem to return these
> pages to the status quo.
>
> I see the Timeless skin has a vaguely similar issue (without the banner).
> That skin does apply the horizontal scrolling to the content div, but the
> scrollbar is way at the bottom of the page instead of at the bottom of the
> screen.
>
>
> --
> Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
> Senior Software Engineer
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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