[Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

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[Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Minata Hatsune
Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia communities
put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page or
Sitenotice?

I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia, Arabic
Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of Facebook
as verified.

All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link as
"official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can do
that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
promotion to Facebook at <
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.

Thank you!

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

jmh649
IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global policy.

James

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia communities
> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page or
> Sitenotice?
>
> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia, Arabic
> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of Facebook
> as verified.
>
> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link as
> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can do
> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> promotion to Facebook at <
> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> >. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>




--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Minata Hatsune
I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
website.

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian

2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:

> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global policy.
>
> James
>
> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia communities
> > put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page
> or
> > Sitenotice?
> >
> > I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
> Arabic
> > Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> Facebook
> > as verified.
> >
> > All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link as
> > "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
> > violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can
> do
> > that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> > promotion to Facebook at <
> > <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> > BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> > ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> > >. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Jimmy Wales-5
Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:

> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> website.
>
> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>
> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
>
>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global policy.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia communities
>>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page
>> or
>>> Sitenotice?
>>>
>>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>> Arabic
>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>> Facebook
>>> as verified.
>>>
>>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link as
>>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can
>> do
>>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>>> promotion to Facebook at <
>>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Heilman
>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Asaf Bartov-2
Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority of
Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some kind
of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
general.

As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.

Cheers,

   Asaf

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>
>
>
> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> > I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> > consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because
> it
> > same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> > website.
> >
> > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> >
> > 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
> >
> >> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> policy.
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
> [hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> communities
> >>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
> Page
> >> or
> >>> Sitenotice?
> >>>
> >>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
> >> Arabic
> >>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> >> Facebook
> >>> as verified.
> >>>
> >>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
> as
> >>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
> >>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
> can
> >> do
> >>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> >>> promotion to Facebook at <
> >>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> >>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> >>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> >>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you!
> >>>
> >>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> >>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> James Heilman
> >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Dariusz Jemielniak-3
My personal preference is to NOT link to Facebook. I think they use the
energy of people enough already.

However, I also think it is up to local communities to decide what works
for them best, there is no "one size fits all" here, IMHO

best,

DJ "pundit"

On Feb 28, 2018 20:06, "Jimmy Wales" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:

> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> website.
>
> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>
> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
>
>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
policy.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
communities

>>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page
>> or
>>> Sitenotice?
>>>
>>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>> Arabic
>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>> Facebook
>>> as verified.
>>>
>>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
as

>>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can
>> do
>>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>>> promotion to Facebook at <
>>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Heilman
>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>


_______________________________________________
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wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Wikimedia-l
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<mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
In reply to this post by Asaf Bartov-2
Saluton,

Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can
judge this factually?

Vikiame

Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :

> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority of
> Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some kind
> of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
> to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
> i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
> is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
> explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
> general.
>
> As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
> Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
> be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
> group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
> and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
>
> Cheers,
>
>     Asaf
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
>> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
>> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
>> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
>> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
>>> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
>>> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because
>> it
>>> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
>>> website.
>>>
>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>>
>>> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
>> policy.
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
>> [hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
>> communities
>>>>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
>> Page
>>>> or
>>>>> Sitenotice?
>>>>>
>>>>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>>>> Arabic
>>>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>>>> Facebook
>>>>> as verified.
>>>>>
>>>>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
>> as
>>>>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>>>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
>> can
>>>> do
>>>>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>>>>> promotion to Facebook at <
>>>>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>>>>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>>>>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>>>>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> James Heilman
>>>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
In reply to this post by Dariusz Jemielniak-3
Le 28/02/2018 à 20:44, Dariusz Jemielniak a écrit :
> My personal preference is to NOT link to Facebook. I think they use the
> energy of people enough already.
>
> However, I also think it is up to local communities to decide what works
> for them best, there is no "one size fits all" here, IMHO
Sure, it's good to let them decide, and it's also good to give feed back
of what see as possible issue or not especially when asked for such an
opinion. :)

>
> best,
>
> DJ "pundit"
>
> On Feb 28, 2018 20:06, "Jimmy Wales" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>
>
>
> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
>> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
>> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
>> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
>> website.
>>
>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>
>> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> policy.
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> communities
>>>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page
>>> or
>>>> Sitenotice?
>>>>
>>>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>>> Arabic
>>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>>> Facebook
>>>> as verified.
>>>>
>>>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
> as
>>>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can
>>> do
>>>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>>>> promotion to Facebook at <
>>>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>>>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>>>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>>>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>> Thank you!
>>>>
>>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> James Heilman
>>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Yaroslav Blanter
In reply to this post by mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
At your service

https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetmə_(roman)

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:26 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Saluton,
>
> Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can
> judge this factually?
>
> Vikiame
>
> Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :
>
>> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
>> of
>> Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
>> kind
>> of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
>> to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
>> i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
>> is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
>> explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
>> general.
>>
>> As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
>> Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
>> be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
>> group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
>> and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>     Asaf
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
>>> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
>>> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
>>> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
>>> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
>>>> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because
>>>>
>>> it
>>>
>>>> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
>>>> website.
>>>>
>>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>>>
>>>> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
>>>>
>>>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
>>>>>
>>>> policy.
>>>
>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
>>>>>
>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
>>>>>>
>>>>> communities
>>>
>>>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
>>>>>>
>>>>> Page
>>>
>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sitenotice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>>>>>>
>>>>> Arabic
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>>>>>>
>>>>> Facebook
>>>>>
>>>>>> as verified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
>>>>>>
>>>>> as
>>>
>>>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>>>>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
>>>>>>
>>>>> can
>>>
>>>> do
>>>>>
>>>>>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>>>>>> promotion to Facebook at <
>>>>>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>>>>>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>>>>>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>>>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>>>>>> ,
>>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> James Heilman
>>>>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>
>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>>
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
Ok, thank you. To my mind the main problem with that kind of practice
pertain to the lake of Free-Libre-Archivable-Infrastructure-Rack (FLAIR)
alternative along the proprietary platform. One problem with this
platform, is that – as far as I know – we don't have comprehensive
archives, let alone an archive policy. If tomorrow a proprietary
platform decide to erase all data related to a group, as far as I know
they can do so¹.

Also, as I usually don't employ this services, so I don't know to which
extend this groups can enforce a free license policy for everything
published there. This plus terms of service, I have no idea how legal a
problem it would be to dump this group discussions into a public archive.

Anyway, would a FLAIR alternative be proposed, I would see no point in
promoting the closed garden within Wikimedia projects, although bridges
which automatically synchronize data flow on popular closed platforms
would be still obviously important to maintain.

Actually, even here I think that we should make a policy that submitting
to our mailling list is conditioned by agreement that the posted
material will be published under a free license.

Cheers

¹ Let alone duty to keep a record of everything enforced by this or that
law, the thing is that it can become offline instantly.


Le 28/02/2018 à 21:32, Yaroslav Blanter a écrit :

> At your service
>
> https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetmə_(roman)
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:26 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Saluton,
>>
>> Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can
>> judge this factually?
>>
>> Vikiame
>>
>> Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :
>>
>>> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
>>> of
>>> Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
>>> kind
>>> of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
>>> to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
>>> i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
>>> is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
>>> explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
>>> general.
>>>
>>> As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
>>> Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
>>> be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
>>> group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
>>> and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>      Asaf
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
>>>> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
>>>> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
>>>> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
>>>> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
>>>>> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because
>>>>>
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
>>>>> website.
>>>>>
>>>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>>>>
>>>>> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>
>>>>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
>>>>> policy.
>>>>> James
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
>>>>>>
>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
>>>>>> communities
>>>>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
>>>>>> Page
>>>>> or
>>>>>>> Sitenotice?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arabic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Facebook
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> as verified.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> as
>>>>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>>>>>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> can
>>>>> do
>>>>>>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>>>>>>> promotion to Facebook at <
>>>>>>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>>>>>>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>>>>>>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>>>>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> James Heilman
>>>>>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>>
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>
>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>>>
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>>> i/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

jmh649
I am not seeing any link to Facebook here?

https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetm%C9%99_(roman)

James

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 2:14 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ok, thank you. To my mind the main problem with that kind of practice
> pertain to the lake of Free-Libre-Archivable-Infrastructure-Rack (FLAIR)
> alternative along the proprietary platform. One problem with this platform,
> is that – as far as I know – we don't have comprehensive archives, let
> alone an archive policy. If tomorrow a proprietary platform decide to erase
> all data related to a group, as far as I know they can do so¹.
>
> Also, as I usually don't employ this services, so I don't know to which
> extend this groups can enforce a free license policy for everything
> published there. This plus terms of service, I have no idea how legal a
> problem it would be to dump this group discussions into a public archive.
>
> Anyway, would a FLAIR alternative be proposed, I would see no point in
> promoting the closed garden within Wikimedia projects, although bridges
> which automatically synchronize data flow on popular closed platforms would
> be still obviously important to maintain.
>
> Actually, even here I think that we should make a policy that submitting
> to our mailling list is conditioned by agreement that the posted material
> will be published under a free license.
>
> Cheers
>
> ¹ Let alone duty to keep a record of everything enforced by this or that
> law, the thing is that it can become offline instantly.
>
>
>
> Le 28/02/2018 à 21:32, Yaroslav Blanter a écrit :
>
>> At your service
>>
>> https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetmə_(roman)
>>
>> Cheers
>> Yaroslav
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:26 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Saluton,
>>>
>>> Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can
>>> judge this factually?
>>>
>>> Vikiame
>>>
>>> Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :
>>>
>>> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
>>>> of
>>>> Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
>>>> kind
>>>> of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing
>>>> visitors
>>>> to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
>>>> i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.
>>>> It
>>>> is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
>>>> explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
>>>> general.
>>>>
>>>> As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
>>>> Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement
>>>> can
>>>> be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
>>>> group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach,
>>>> awareness,
>>>> and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>      Asaf
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
>>>>
>>>>> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
>>>>> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
>>>>> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
>>>>> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
>>>>>> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not?
>>>>>> Because
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
>>>>>> website.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>>>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
>>>>>> policy.
>>>>>> James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
>>>>>>> communities
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Page
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sitenotice?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Arabic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Facebook
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> as verified.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a
>>>>>>>> link
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> do
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>>>>>>>> promotion to Facebook at <
>>>>>>>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>>>>>>>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>>>>>>>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>>>>>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>>>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>>>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ma
>>>>>>>> ilman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>>>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsu
>>>>>>>> bscribe>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> James Heilman
>>>>>>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ma
>>>>>>> ilman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>
>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
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>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>>>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>>>> i/Wikimedia-l
>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>>> i/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> New messages to: [hidden email]
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>>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Erik Moeller-3
On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:31 PM, James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am not seeing any link to Facebook here?
>
> https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetm%C9%99_(roman)

It's part of a banner, not sure the banner is set to 100%. It says:

"Azərbaycanca Vikipediya ilə daim əlaqədə olmaq üçün bizi "Facebook"da izləyin!"

in small font at the top, with a link to:

https://www.facebook.com/azvikipediya

Personally, I'd love to see WMF or a chapter set up a public Mastodon
instance; the project has matured significantly since its first
release and is at least a viable free/open alternative to the
Twitter-ish forms of social networking. FB still has event management
functions that are difficult to substitute, however.

Erik

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Vi to
The two cases some referred to
https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Sitenotice and
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bản_mẫu:AdvancedSiteNotices

I don't like facebook at all but it's a de facto standard for
communication/outreaching. If "official" groups meet a series of
requisites. For example being managed by a sufficient number of trusted
users, respecting "something recalling" friendly space expectations, etc.

Vito

2018-03-01 3:01 GMT+01:00 Erik Moeller <[hidden email]>:

> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:31 PM, James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I am not seeing any link to Facebook here?
> >
> > https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetm%C9%99_(roman)
>
> It's part of a banner, not sure the banner is set to 100%. It says:
>
> "Azərbaycanca Vikipediya ilə daim əlaqədə olmaq üçün bizi "Facebook"da
> izləyin!"
>
> in small font at the top, with a link to:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/azvikipediya
>
> Personally, I'd love to see WMF or a chapter set up a public Mastodon
> instance; the project has matured significantly since its first
> release and is at least a viable free/open alternative to the
> Twitter-ish forms of social networking. FB still has event management
> functions that are difficult to substitute, however.
>
> Erik
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Minata Hatsune
In reply to this post by Asaf Bartov-2
 I resent this for another people from Vietnamese community need to join
discussion, but subscribe the wikimedia-l just now.


2018-03-01 4:43 GMT+09:00 Asaf Bartov <[hidden email]>:

> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority of
> Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some kind
> of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
> to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
> i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
> is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
> explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
> general.
>
> As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
> Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
> be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
> group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
> and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
>
> Cheers,
>
>    Asaf
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> > any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> > should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> > especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> > take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> > > I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> > > consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because
> > it
> > > same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> > > website.
> > >
> > > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > >
> > > 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > >> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> > policy.
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
> > [hidden email]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> > communities
> > >>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
> > Page
> > >> or
> > >>> Sitenotice?
> > >>>
> > >>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
> > >> Arabic
> > >>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> > >> Facebook
> > >>> as verified.
> > >>>
> > >>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a
> link
> > as
> > >>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook
> and
> > >>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
> > can
> > >> do
> > >>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> > >>> promotion to Facebook at <
> > >>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> > >>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> > >>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> > >>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you!
> > >>>
> > >>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > >>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > >>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> James Heilman
> > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Dung Nguyen
The issue at hand here is that the linked-to Facebook page is not directly
affiliated with the Wikipedia project.  It might share some members, but
Wikipedia has no control over its content.  For a Wikipedia project that
has had its share of misconceptions about its affiliations, I think it's
inadvisable to link to a non-official page.  Preferably, the page should
meet some minimum requirements to become an official page of the project
and be "anointed" as such before it's linked to from the project front page.


On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 10:06 AM Minata Hatsune <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>  I resent this for another people from Vietnamese community need to join
> discussion, but subscribe the wikimedia-l just now.
>
>
> 2018-03-01 4:43 GMT+09:00 Asaf Bartov <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
> of
> > Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
> kind
> > of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing
> visitors
> > to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
> > i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.
> It
> > is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
> > explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
> > general.
> >
> > As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
> > Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
> > be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
> > group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach,
> awareness,
> > and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >    Asaf
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> > > any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> > > should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> > > especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> > > take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> > > > I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> > > > consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not?
> Because
> > > it
> > > > same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> > > > website.
> > > >
> > > > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > > >
> > > > 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
> > > >
> > > >> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> > > policy.
> > > >>
> > > >> James
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> > > communities
> > > >>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
> > > Page
> > > >> or
> > > >>> Sitenotice?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia
> Wikipedia,
> > > >> Arabic
> > > >>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> > > >> Facebook
> > > >>> as verified.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a
> > link
> > > as
> > > >>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook
> > and
> > > >>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other
> projects
> > > can
> > > >> do
> > > >>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> > > >>> promotion to Facebook at <
> > > >>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> > > >>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> > > >>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> > > >>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thank you!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > >>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > >>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> James Heilman
> > > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > >> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Dung Nguyen
(714) 248-6297
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
In reply to this post by Asaf Bartov-2
Sorry, but can I understand this as a promotion link to Facebook pages
(managed by community) is recommended for outreach Wikipedia, even if it
isn't an "official Facebook page" managed by WMF or chapters/usergroups?


Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Supporter, Wikimedian

2018-03-01 4:43 GMT+09:00 Asaf Bartov <[hidden email]>:

> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority of
> Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some kind
> of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
> to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
> i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
> is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
> explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
> general.
>
> As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
> Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
> be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
> group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
> and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
>
> Cheers,
>
>    Asaf
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> > any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> > should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> > especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> > take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> > > I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> > > consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because
> > it
> > > same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> > > website.
> > >
> > > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > >
> > > 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > >> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> > policy.
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
> > [hidden email]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> > communities
> > >>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
> > Page
> > >> or
> > >>> Sitenotice?
> > >>>
> > >>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
> > >> Arabic
> > >>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> > >> Facebook
> > >>> as verified.
> > >>>
> > >>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a
> link
> > as
> > >>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook
> and
> > >>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
> > can
> > >> do
> > >>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> > >>> promotion to Facebook at <
> > >>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> > >>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> > >>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> > >>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you!
> > >>>
> > >>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > >>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Strainu
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-3
2018-03-01 4:01 GMT+02:00 Erik Moeller <[hidden email]>:
>
> Personally, I'd love to see WMF or a chapter set up a public Mastodon
> instance; the project has matured significantly since its first
> release and is at least a viable free/open alternative to the
> Twitter-ish forms of social networking. FB still has event management
> functions that are difficult to substitute, however.

Even if there would be an open-source alternative with all the
Facebook functionality, installing, maintaining and promoting it would
be a huge waste of money. The Facebook pages are an *outreach* tool,
which implies getting out of our walled garden, not extending the
garden. Choosing Facebook is simply the smart thing to do ATM, since
all alternatives are smaller in size and engagement.

The more interesting thing is what you do once you have the page and
you have convinced your community to put it in a banner or sidebar. I
have experimented with small tasks that could be done by newcomers,
such as identifying images or correcting diacritics, with somewhat
mixed results (the more I go towards text editing, the lower the
impact). I am curious if other people have done similar experiments
and would be willing to share their experience.

Strainu



>
> Erik
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Erik Moeller-3
On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Personally, I'd love to see WMF or a chapter set up a public Mastodon
>> instance; the project has matured significantly since its first
>> release and is at least a viable free/open alternative to the
>> Twitter-ish forms of social networking. FB still has event management
>> functions that are difficult to substitute, however.

> Even if there would be an open-source alternative with all the
> Facebook functionality, installing, maintaining and promoting it would
> be a huge waste of money.

I would agree if we compared centralized service to centralized
service (e.g. Ello vs. Facebook), but the premise of services like
Mastodon is federation between servers (instances) using open
protocols like ActivityPub. This means that even small organizations
can credibly host "instances" of a social network like Mastodon while
participating in the larger federation of users (you can follow users
from other instances, reply to their statuses, etc.). Mastodon is the
first IMO fairly successful implementation of this approach; it has
more than 1M accounts of which about 10% show recent activity, and it
already is reaching subcultures beyond the usual suspects.

To give you an idea of the cost, you can run a mid-size instance with
a few thousand users, automated backups and monitoring for tens of
dollars a month (the main cost is in person-time, but most instances
like this are run by volunteers and supported by donations). So I do
think it would be very possible even for an interested volunteer to
set up an instance with reasonable uptime, backup and monitoring
characteristics for exploratory use. Certainly it would be possible at
reasonable cost for WMF or a chapter to do so, possibly with some
"active contributor on Wikimedia projects" requirement for creating an
account.

Once again, the crucial point here is that instances communicate with
each other, so even though your own instance may only have a few
thousand users, you are part of the larger "fediverse" which includes
software with completely different UIs implementing the same protocol.

A nice intro for the unfamiliar:
https://blog.rowan.website/2018/01/08/yet-another-explanation-of-mastodon/

Incidentally, the protocol used by Mastodon, ActivityPub, recently
became a W3C recommendation:
https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/

Of course, I'm not opposed to people using FB for organizing -- I
think it's a totally reasonable choice, for the reasons you say -- but
I do think it's worth keeping an eye on federated social networks in
general, and Mastodon in particular, as a potential alternative space
for Wikimedia to engage in, _including_ for outreach. The numbers are
obviously still a drop in the bucket compared with the mega-networks,
so pragmatic considerations may reasonably prevail in many
circumstances.

Erik

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[Wikimedia-l] Disseminated outreach material and archive considerations [Was: Re: About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects]

mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
Actually, I don't see this things as necessarily incompatible options.
If Mastodon have bridges to other platform such as Facebook then it
would in fact even a way to gather effort and reaching both networks. On
the other hand if there is not such a bridge, then it will add resource
requirements to manage both canal.

On a broader view, I would like to put back the topic of archiving our
communications. Right now we already have many canal to communicate:

- in wiki project and talk pages
- a set of mailling lists hosted by WMF and probably many more by misc.
chapters and user groups
- some discourse instances
- social media groups
- telegram groups
- IRC channels

And probably more I forgot or that I'm not even aware of.

Not all this communication canal are archived equally. I think it's
important to archive as much as we can, making them conveniently
searchable can always be done later, but making their data archived can
only be done while they are available.

So before adding yet an other canal, I think it would be good to have a
rational explicit goals regarding archive strategy of our communication.
If there's a consensus to let things happen without caring about
archiving, OK, but it should at least debated. If it already was, or is
already in progress, please provide a reference.

Cheers


Le 02/03/2018 à 07:05, Erik Moeller a écrit :

> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> Personally, I'd love to see WMF or a chapter set up a public Mastodon
>>> instance; the project has matured significantly since its first
>>> release and is at least a viable free/open alternative to the
>>> Twitter-ish forms of social networking. FB still has event management
>>> functions that are difficult to substitute, however.
>> Even if there would be an open-source alternative with all the
>> Facebook functionality, installing, maintaining and promoting it would
>> be a huge waste of money.
> I would agree if we compared centralized service to centralized
> service (e.g. Ello vs. Facebook), but the premise of services like
> Mastodon is federation between servers (instances) using open
> protocols like ActivityPub. This means that even small organizations
> can credibly host "instances" of a social network like Mastodon while
> participating in the larger federation of users (you can follow users
> from other instances, reply to their statuses, etc.). Mastodon is the
> first IMO fairly successful implementation of this approach; it has
> more than 1M accounts of which about 10% show recent activity, and it
> already is reaching subcultures beyond the usual suspects.
>
> To give you an idea of the cost, you can run a mid-size instance with
> a few thousand users, automated backups and monitoring for tens of
> dollars a month (the main cost is in person-time, but most instances
> like this are run by volunteers and supported by donations). So I do
> think it would be very possible even for an interested volunteer to
> set up an instance with reasonable uptime, backup and monitoring
> characteristics for exploratory use. Certainly it would be possible at
> reasonable cost for WMF or a chapter to do so, possibly with some
> "active contributor on Wikimedia projects" requirement for creating an
> account.
>
> Once again, the crucial point here is that instances communicate with
> each other, so even though your own instance may only have a few
> thousand users, you are part of the larger "fediverse" which includes
> software with completely different UIs implementing the same protocol.
>
> A nice intro for the unfamiliar:
> https://blog.rowan.website/2018/01/08/yet-another-explanation-of-mastodon/
>
> Incidentally, the protocol used by Mastodon, ActivityPub, recently
> became a W3C recommendation:
> https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/
>
> Of course, I'm not opposed to people using FB for organizing -- I
> think it's a totally reasonable choice, for the reasons you say -- but
> I do think it's worth keeping an eye on federated social networks in
> general, and Mastodon in particular, as a potential alternative space
> for Wikimedia to engage in, _including_ for outreach. The numbers are
> obviously still a drop in the bucket compared with the mega-networks,
> so pragmatic considerations may reasonably prevail in many
> circumstances.
>
> Erik
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

Dung Nguyen
In reply to this post by Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
The issue at hand here is that the linked-to Facebook page is not directly
affiliated with the Wikipedia project.  It might share some members, but
Wikipedia has no control over its content.  For a Wikipedia project that
has had its share of misconceptions about its affiliations, I think it's
inadvisable to link to a non-official page.  Preferably, the page should
meet some minimum requirements to become an official page of the project
and be "anointed" as such before it's linked to from the project front page.

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018, 7:53 AM Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Sorry, but can I understand this as a promotion link to Facebook pages
> (managed by community) is recommended for outreach Wikipedia, even if it
> isn't an "official Facebook page" managed by WMF or chapters/usergroups?
>
>
> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> Supporter, Wikimedian
>
> 2018-03-01 4:43 GMT+09:00 Asaf Bartov <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
> of
> > Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
> kind
> > of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing
> visitors
> > to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
> > i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.
> It
> > is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
> > explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
> > general.
> >
> > As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
> > Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
> > be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
> > group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach,
> awareness,
> > and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >    Asaf
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> > > any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> > > should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> > > especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> > > take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> > > > I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> > > > consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not?
> Because
> > > it
> > > > same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> > > > website.
> > > >
> > > > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > > >
> > > > 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman <[hidden email]>:
> > > >
> > > >> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> > > policy.
> > > >>
> > > >> James
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> > > communities
> > > >>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
> > > Page
> > > >> or
> > > >>> Sitenotice?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia
> Wikipedia,
> > > >> Arabic
> > > >>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> > > >> Facebook
> > > >>> as verified.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a
> > link
> > > as
> > > >>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook
> > and
> > > >>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other
> projects
> > > can
> > > >> do
> > > >>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> > > >>> promotion to Facebook at <
> > > >>> <a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%">https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> > > >>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> > > >>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> > > >>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thank you!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > >>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
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> > > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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