[Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

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[Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Andy Mabbett-2
Google Scholar search results each have a "cite" link, which generates
citation text to copy-and-paste in three formats (MLA, APA, Chicago).

Is there someone at Google we can talk to, to get Wikipedia's citation
format included?

For English-language users (or results), the {{Cite journal}} template
is probably most appropriate.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

liangent
Hmm, maybe another option is to accept BibTeX format on our side, possibly
via a Lua module?

-Liangent
On Aug 4, 2014 1:15 AM, "Andy Mabbett" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Google Scholar search results each have a "cite" link, which generates
> citation text to copy-and-paste in three formats (MLA, APA, Chicago).
>
> Is there someone at Google we can talk to, to get Wikipedia's citation
> format included?
>
> For English-language users (or results), the {{Cite journal}} template
> is probably most appropriate.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Luis Villa
Possibly relevant as an alternative solution to the problem:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Citoid

I suspect that Google would be reluctant to add a Wikimedia citation
format, because there is no one Wikimedia citation format. (Happy to be
corrected on that if I'm wrong, though.)

Luis


On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Liangent <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hmm, maybe another option is to accept BibTeX format on our side, possibly
> via a Lua module?
>
> -Liangent
> On Aug 4, 2014 1:15 AM, "Andy Mabbett" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Google Scholar search results each have a "cite" link, which generates
> > citation text to copy-and-paste in three formats (MLA, APA, Chicago).
> >
> > Is there someone at Google we can talk to, to get Wikipedia's citation
> > format included?
> >
> > For English-language users (or results), the {{Cite journal}} template
> > is probably most appropriate.
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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>



--
Luis Villa
Deputy General Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation
415.839.6885 ext. 6810

*This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Andy Mabbett-2
On 3 August 2014 19:01, Luis Villa <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I suspect that Google would be reluctant to add
> a Wikimedia citation format

Trove, the Australian National Library's newspaper archive, are happy to do so.

> because there is no one Wikimedia citation format.
> (Happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong, though.)

There isn't, hence I suggested the most suitable for scholarly
citations in English.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Luis Villa
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 3 August 2014 19:01, Luis Villa <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I suspect that Google would be reluctant to add
> > a Wikimedia citation format
>
> Trove, the Australian National Library's newspaper archive, are happy to
> do so.


Presumably those materials are all in English, unlike Scholar (and
Wikipedia!)


>  > because there is no one Wikimedia citation format.
> > (Happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong, though.)
>
> There isn't, hence I suggested the most suitable for scholarly
> citations in English.


Both Google and Wikimedia claim to be global, multi-lingual solutions. So
both we and Google should be aiming higher.

But of course take my perspective with a grain of salt - I've always found
it crazy that there is not a standardized citation format across the
projects, so I may be putting words in Google's mouth.

Luis

--
Luis Villa
Deputy General Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation
415.839.6885 ext. 6810

*This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have
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on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Pete Forsyth-2
Many reference sites have been happy to do this, and personally I don't see
any problem doing it piecemeal, one language at a time, unless and until
there is a more efficient solution available.

I think at this point it's clear enough to a reference site why it is in
their interest to do so, and they are often happy to pay for solid advice
on implementation. So there isn't really any need for a formal, WMF
endorsed approach.

Pete
[[User:peteforsyth]]
On Aug 3, 2014 12:44 PM, "Luis Villa" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > On 3 August 2014 19:01, Luis Villa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > I suspect that Google would be reluctant to add
> > > a Wikimedia citation format
> >
> > Trove, the Australian National Library's newspaper archive, are happy to
> > do so.
>
>
> Presumably those materials are all in English, unlike Scholar (and
> Wikipedia!)
>
>
> >  > because there is no one Wikimedia citation format.
> > > (Happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong, though.)
> >
> > There isn't, hence I suggested the most suitable for scholarly
> > citations in English.
>
>
> Both Google and Wikimedia claim to be global, multi-lingual solutions. So
> both we and Google should be aiming higher.
>
> But of course take my perspective with a grain of salt - I've always found
> it crazy that there is not a standardized citation format across the
> projects, so I may be putting words in Google's mouth.
>
> Luis
>
> --
> Luis Villa
> Deputy General Counsel
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 415.839.6885 ext. 6810
>
> *This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have
> received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the
> mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical
> reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Jan Ainali-2
In reply to this post by Luis Villa
Google Scholar seem to do very well on the Citoid tests:
http://zotero-translator-tests.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/testTranslators.html#date=2014-07-30&browser=c&version=4.0.SOURCE.9219100

Just make sure to get that thing running and we will have a more robust
solution to ask potential source sites to adjust their metadata to.


*Med vänliga hälsningar,Jan Ainali*

Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida>
0729 - 67 29 48


*Tänk dig en värld där varje människa har fri tillgång till mänsklighetens
samlade kunskap. Det är det vi gör.*
Bli medlem. <http://blimedlem.wikimedia.se>



2014-08-03 21:44 GMT+02:00 Luis Villa <[hidden email]>:

> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > On 3 August 2014 19:01, Luis Villa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > I suspect that Google would be reluctant to add
> > > a Wikimedia citation format
> >
> > Trove, the Australian National Library's newspaper archive, are happy to
> > do so.
>
>
> Presumably those materials are all in English, unlike Scholar (and
> Wikipedia!)
>
>
> >  > because there is no one Wikimedia citation format.
> > > (Happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong, though.)
> >
> > There isn't, hence I suggested the most suitable for scholarly
> > citations in English.
>
>
> Both Google and Wikimedia claim to be global, multi-lingual solutions. So
> both we and Google should be aiming higher.
>
> But of course take my perspective with a grain of salt - I've always found
> it crazy that there is not a standardized citation format across the
> projects, so I may be putting words in Google's mouth.
>
> Luis
>
> --
> Luis Villa
> Deputy General Counsel
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 415.839.6885 ext. 6810
>
> *This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have
> received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the
> mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical
> reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Andy Mabbett-2
In reply to this post by Luis Villa
On 3 August 2014 20:44, Luis Villa <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>  > because there is no one Wikimedia citation format.
>> > (Happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong, though.)
>>
>> There isn't, hence I suggested the most suitable for scholarly
>> citations in English.
>
>
> Both Google and Wikimedia claim to be global, multi-lingual solutions. So
> both we and Google should be aiming higher.

I didn't say I didn't aim higher - but it's also pragmatic to start
with quick wins, which will help a majority of people, most of the
time.

Despite being a monoglot, I spend a good deal of time supporting
non-English projects, and multi-lingual editors; and cross-project
collaboration.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Gryllida
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett-2
Does the same apply to other sister projects? It could make sense to make such request for all...

On Mon, 4 Aug 2014, at 03:14, Andy Mabbett wrote:

> Google Scholar search results each have a "cite" link, which generates
> citation text to copy-and-paste in three formats (MLA, APA, Chicago).
>
> Is there someone at Google we can talk to, to get Wikipedia's citation
> format included?
>
> For English-language users (or results), the {{Cite journal}} template
> is probably most appropriate.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Lodewijk
the problem is all projects use a different format :)

Maybe it is worth the effort to investigate if we can come to a single
format... at least on the input side.

Lodewijk


2014-08-04 3:43 GMT+02:00 Gryllida <[hidden email]>:

> Does the same apply to other sister projects? It could make sense to make
> such request for all...
>
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2014, at 03:14, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> > Google Scholar search results each have a "cite" link, which generates
> > citation text to copy-and-paste in three formats (MLA, APA, Chicago).
> >
> > Is there someone at Google we can talk to, to get Wikipedia's citation
> > format included?
> >
> > For English-language users (or results), the {{Cite journal}} template
> > is probably most appropriate.
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Liam Wyatt
Lodewijk:
Yes indeed. The citation/footnote coding format for different language
editions of Wikipedia is not the same, not to mention the other Wikimedia
projects.
I wonder if this is something that Wikidata could (eventually) handle?
I have been hoping that one day all books (at least those with ISBNs) could
have a Wikidata entry. This would mean that all of the bibliographic
metadata published as CC0 by a variety of national libraries could be
imported and we would have a tremendously useful catalogue of published
works. Presubamly then, each Wikipedia could rely on this database for
footnotes to specific books (each with its own presentation format if it
wants) - rather than having to manually enter each book's bibliographic
information every time you want to cite it on a new Wikipedia article...
This would be similar to the way Commons is a central repository for Media
files, Wikidata could be a central repository of footnote information. Does
this make (logical and technological) sense? Is this feasible, or
completely out of scope for Wikidata?


Andy:
Thanks for pointing out the way "Trove" provides a citation tool for easy
use on (English) Wikipedia articles. For those who've not seen it, here's a
random example - http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/page/1038049 click the
"cite" link near the top-left corner. I asked them to incorporate this into
the Trove system in 2009 in association with the GLAM-WIKI conference in
Canberra. Over the years this has proved to be hugely beneficial to Trove
(a service of the National Library of Australia), and has generated
thousands of deep-links to their catalogue
http://linkypedia.inkdroid.org/websites/16/
 These links made Wikipedia their number one non-search-engine provider of
inbound traffic [I was employed at the NLA until recently].

-Liam / Wittylama

On 4 August 2014 09:18, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> the problem is all projects use a different format :)
>
> Maybe it is worth the effort to investigate if we can come to a single
> format... at least on the input side.
>
> Lodewijk
>
>
> 2014-08-04 3:43 GMT+02:00 Gryllida <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Does the same apply to other sister projects? It could make sense to make
> > such request for all...
> >
> > On Mon, 4 Aug 2014, at 03:14, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> > > Google Scholar search results each have a "cite" link, which generates
> > > citation text to copy-and-paste in three formats (MLA, APA, Chicago).
> > >
> > > Is there someone at Google we can talk to, to get Wikipedia's citation
> > > format included?
> > >
> > > For English-language users (or results), the {{Cite journal}} template
> > > is probably most appropriate.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andy Mabbett
> > > @pigsonthewing
> > > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Fæ
On 04/08/2014, Liam Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
...
> I wonder if this is something that Wikidata could (eventually) handle?
> I have been hoping that one day all books (at least those with ISBNs) could
> have a Wikidata entry. This would mean that all of the bibliographic

There is no point in duplicating other free databases which are
already excellent. http://worldcat.org (by OCLC) has a free to use
API, I've played around with it a little, and it can be integrated in
with any tool. As well as all ISBNs, this includes OCLC numbers (duh)
and other interesting bits and bobs like LCCN numbers that the Library
of Congress uses.

Yonks ago I wrote a greasemonkey script to scrape WorldCat entries
which I used to insert or tidy up complex references in Wikipedia
articles (this was before I hounded to death and resigned as an
admin). The current editing interface on the English Wikipedia has the
cite tool which effectively does the same thing if you put in the
ISBN, so I have never been motivated to promote my script or repackage
it as a user script. If someone wants to look at a copy during the
hackerthon, I'll pass it on, though I'd recommend reading the WorldCat
API documentation instead.
http://www.oclc.org/developer/develop/web-services/worldcat-search-api.en.html

Fae
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Andy Mabbett-2
In reply to this post by Lodewijk
On 4 August 2014 08:18, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> the problem is all projects use a different format :)
>
> Maybe it is worth the effort to investigate if we can come to a single
> format... at least on the input side.

I believe such is being discussed, as part of the wider conversation
around using Wikidata as a repository for citations.

But that is months if not years away, and we could in the meantime
have, if we can secure Google's cooperation as proposed, a quick
solution for the majority of cases in a few days or weeks.

A hack-y work-around, if one is needed, would be for non-english sites
to aheva template called {{cite journal}}, and have that always
"subst:" into a ,coal template, as en.WP currently does with for
example, various de.WP infobox templates .

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Andy Mabbett-2
In reply to this post by Liam Wyatt
On 4 August 2014 11:15, Liam Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I wonder if this is something that Wikidata could (eventually) handle?

I have a brain-dump about how this might work, in my user pace at:

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing/Citations_-_the_future

For me, one of the exciting things about this is being able to quickly
and confidently see every article in which an author is cited (see
mockup, linked form that page), or in which a specific work is cited.

> Thanks for pointing out the way "Trove" provides a
> citation tool for easy use on (English) Wikipedia articles.

> I asked them to incorporate this into the Trove system in 2009

I supposed you might have had a hand in it. Nice work!

I imagine you would have had less success had you asked for a
different template for each language; the same would apply with
Google.

> Over the years this has proved to be hugely beneficial to Trove
> (a service of the National Library of Australia), and has generated
> thousands of deep-links to their catalogue

That's a great selling point!

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Andy Mabbett-2
In reply to this post by Fæ
On 4 August 2014 11:43, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The current editing interface on the English Wikipedia has the
> cite tool which effectively does the same thing if you put in the
> ISBN

I find that often rimes out, sadly. (It works well with Google books
URLs, though.)

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Asking Google to output Wikipedia citation format in Scholar

Andy Mabbett-2
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett-2
On 4 August 2014 12:02, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> for non-english sites
> to aheva template called {{cite journal}}, and have that always
> "subst:" into a ,coal template

"have a"; "local".

Apologies.


--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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[Wikimedia-l] Låna konfrum fre 11

Anders Wennersten-2
In reply to this post by Jan Ainali-2
Jag kommer träffa Hangsna IRL på fredag 11.00

Kan vi använda kontorets konfrum?

träffen blir väl cirka en timme
Anders
väldigt kul med Bot Academy och snygg logga du gjort





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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Låna konfrum fre 11

Jan Ainali-2
Hej!

Det går alldeles utmärkt, ni är varmt välkomna!


*Med vänliga hälsningar,Jan Ainali*

Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida>
0729 - 67 29 48


*Tänk dig en värld där varje människa har fri tillgång till mänsklighetens
samlade kunskap. Det är det vi gör.*
Bli medlem. <http://blimedlem.wikimedia.se>



Den 13 augusti 2014 10:17 skrev Anders Wennersten <[hidden email]>
:

> Jag kommer träffa Hangsna IRL på fredag 11.00
>
> Kan vi använda kontorets konfrum?
>
> träffen blir väl cirka en timme
> Anders
> väldigt kul med Bot Academy och snygg logga du gjort
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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