[Wikimedia-l] Banners for logged-in users (was:How can we fix the two-stage page loading problem?)

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
8 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[Wikimedia-l] Banners for logged-in users (was:How can we fix the two-stage page loading problem?)

Strainu
Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally different.

2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>:
> WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several years.

While I wouldn't bet my life on it, I'm pretty sure I saw banners on
mobile just last month, while being logged in.

Strainu


>
> Regards
> Seddon
>
>
>
> On 5 Sep 2017 08:33, "Lodewijk" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hey Ori,
>>
>> I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could indeed work
>> well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations comes from
>> logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite relevant
>> for logged in users.
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia projects at
>> > the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing it. And
>> > then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central notice /
>> > gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the page again,
>> > or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to undo the
>> > change you just made since you made it in the wrong part of the page.
>> >
>> >
>> > Or you click "edit" and it hits the banner that suddenly popped up
>> > under your click. AAAAAAAAAAAA
>> >
>> >
>> > One possible solution would be to exempt anyone who edits an article from
>> > being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable expiry. Since
>> > only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact on the
>> > WMF's bottom line to be negligible.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > New messages to: [hidden email]
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banners for logged-in users (was:How can we fix the two-stage page loading problem?)

Tito Dutta
​--​ True. I also saw the banner several times (not this year)​ until I
enabled " Suppress display of fundraiser banners" in preferences>>gadgets
(tried on En Wikipedia). As a sidenote I found it very difficult to donate
using an Indian Visa debit card or internet banking (that's all I have). It
would be great if someone can suggest me (feel free to PM me or write to
User talk:Titodutta directly) how to donate using the mentioned payment
options.


Thanks
Tito Dutta
Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind
me over email or phone call.

On 5 September 2017 at 18:08, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally different.
>
> 2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>:
> > WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several
> years.
>
> While I wouldn't bet my life on it, I'm pretty sure I saw banners on
> mobile just last month, while being logged in.
>
> Strainu
>
>
> >
> > Regards
> > Seddon
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5 Sep 2017 08:33, "Lodewijk" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Ori,
> >>
> >> I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could indeed
> work
> >> well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations comes
> from
> >> logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite
> relevant
> >> for logged in users.
> >>
> >> Lodewijk
> >>
> >> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia
> projects at
> >> > the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing it.
> And
> >> > then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central
> notice /
> >> > gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the page
> again,
> >> > or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to undo
> the
> >> > change you just made since you made it in the wrong part of the page.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Or you click "edit" and it hits the banner that suddenly popped up
> >> > under your click. AAAAAAAAAAAA
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > One possible solution would be to exempt anyone who edits an article
> from
> >> > being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable expiry.
> Since
> >> > only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact on
> the
> >> > WMF's bottom line to be negligible.
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banners for logged-in users (was:How can we fix the two-stage page loading problem?)

Joseph Seddon-6
In reply to this post by Strainu
Hey Strainu,

You are probably right in that you saw a banner but regarding specifically
fundraising banners, I am 100% certain that the WMF does not and has not
for some years actively shown banners to users who are logged in. The
caveat with that is this does not preclude any possibility of human error
or a software bug. I'm not aware of any specific occasion where this has
occurred in the last two years but with a piece of software that serves
billions of page views, across 20-30 countries and some probably some 3000
banner tests during that period, probabilities that something hadn't gone
wrong start reaching levels of sigma that not even I would attempt to claim
:P

Regards

Seddon

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally different.
>
> 2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>:
> > WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several
> years.
>
> While I wouldn't bet my life on it, I'm pretty sure I saw banners on
> mobile just last month, while being logged in.
>
> Strainu
>
>
> >
> > Regards
> > Seddon
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5 Sep 2017 08:33, "Lodewijk" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Ori,
> >>
> >> I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could indeed
> work
> >> well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations comes
> from
> >> logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite
> relevant
> >> for logged in users.
> >>
> >> Lodewijk
> >>
> >> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia
> projects at
> >> > the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing it.
> And
> >> > then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central
> notice /
> >> > gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the page
> again,
> >> > or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to undo
> the
> >> > change you just made since you made it in the wrong part of the page.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Or you click "edit" and it hits the banner that suddenly popped up
> >> > under your click. AAAAAAAAAAAA
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > One possible solution would be to exempt anyone who edits an article
> from
> >> > being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable expiry.
> Since
> >> > only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact on
> the
> >> > WMF's bottom line to be negligible.
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>




--
Seddon

*Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)*
*Wikimedia Foundation*
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banners for logged-in users (was:How can we fix the two-stage page loading problem?)

David Emrany
In reply to this post by Strainu
Hi lodewijk

I've altered the subject line at your suggestion.

The name of the case (and the opposite party) is equally well known to
Wikimedia-Legal. The first decision in the case is online at the WIPO
website, however, since it is still under litigation, I am not linking
to it under the WP:OUTING policies, and it would be far better that
whoever speaks for WMF links to it.

I am categorically saying

1) In 2016, WMF's Asian fund-raising campaign in SAARC began 2 or 3
weeks before they started elsewhere, probably to coincide with the
local festive season when people are receptive to giving.

2) The WMF banner ads for SAARC did not discrimnate between logged-in
users and readers.

3) Perhaps WMF learned from all this and adapted it to their non-Asian
ad banner / email solicitation campaigns which began from 29 Nov 2016
?.

4) Perhaps you have an inherent COI in this case to suppress the
questionable means by how WMF funds / endowments are raised, because
you are on the consuming side ?

If it is evidence you want, try this for intelligent hounding ?

https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/wikipedias-new-email-campaign-is-a-master-class-in-emotional-intelligence.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/jimmy_wales_wikipedia_fundraising_promise/

PS: I would certainly like specific clarity from WMF on how much was
paid in 2014-15 for legal services "to" Jonesday and how much was paid
"through" Jonesday.

warmly

David

On 9/11/17, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> hi david,
>
> as with your accusations regarding the spending, my question would be
> whether
> you have anything to substantiate it. Seddon was clear: it did not happen,
> unless perhaps a human error in a minimal number of campaigns. If you have
> that then please bring that up in a *separate* thead.
>
> you're going more and more off topic. I suggest that we return to the
> question
> at hand: the two stage loading problem.
>
> lodewijk
>
> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 8:41 AM, David Emrany <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Joseph
>>
>> Thanks for that link.
>>
>> *NB*: I hope that the list moderators shall not censor / block / unduly
>> delay this important internal conversation we are having concerning WMF
>> self-financing model.
>>
>> Since this concerns the WMF fund-raising drives of Nov-Dec 2016, I'm
>> linking to the following messages
>>
>> 1. *[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Foundation Form 990
>> for FY 2014-2015 now on-wiki*
>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-May/084254.html>
>>
>> *"WMF's sheer wastage of donated money (incl. lunch
>> money from Scottish schoolkids) on unnecessary litigation, I cite that
>> the single most prominent case they defended in the period was
>> apparently a domain name dispute (said to billed at US$ 317,490) in
>> which the opposite party (a Wikipedian of long standing) who had only
>> booked the domain name to prevent it from being snaffled by "cyber
>> squatters"  had immediately offered to donate it WMF free of cost
>> before the case began. Had WMF accepted that voluntary and good faith
>> donation offer, they would have also got back 75% of the filing fees
>> (a not insubstantial amount).
>>
>> Dave"*
>>
>>
>> 2. *Reply by Greg Varnum (WMF) on this mailing list*
>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-May/084276.html>
>>
>> *"As for the question about why the Wikimedia Foundationspent $317,490
>> fighting "cybersquatters" that offeredto donate the domain in dispute:
>> We’re not sure where this question comes from, as we haven’t dealt with a
>> case that fits this description. We do not fight cybersquatters who offer
>> to donate their domains (especially if they are community members),and, to
>> date, we have not spent anything approachingthat much money on this type
>> of case."*
>>
>> 3.   *Your donation keeps Wikipedia and free knowledge thriving*
>> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/11/29/wikimedia-foundation-annual-fundraiser/>
>>
>> "Legal defense to preserve your right to access, share, and remix
>> knowledge, including court battles won over Wikimedia content in Brazil
>> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/09/14/rosanah-fienngo/>, Germany
>> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/08/09/victory-germany-appeal-dismissed/>,
>> France <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/06/20/france-legal-victory/>, and
>> India."
>>
>> including unreplied comments on why the India court battles were not
>> linked unlike the others
>> So to sum up:
>>
>> 1. The WMF form 990 says US law firm "JonesDay" received US$ 1,742,916
>> for legal services in 2014-15
>>
>> 2. WMF is unprepared to specifically inform the community how much of
>> that was spent on fighting a specific "cyber-squatter" from India (my own
>> sources at the time said US$ 300,000 was paid by WMF to JonesDay for this
>> case, mainly billable hours for JD partner Carrie Kiedrowski).
>>
>> 3. WMF is unprepared to specifically inform the community whether or not
>> this cyber squatter (who claims to be a community member since 2003) had
>> straightaway offered to donate the domain name free of cost to the WMF
>> and close the case, however, WMF rejected the offer and instead ran up huge
>> legal bills which were financed by donations, and probably continues to
>> do so since that case is still ongoing in India's legal system .
>>
>> 4. I distinctly recall that when I was in India in mid-November 2016,
>> attending the Opendaylight Linux forum in Bengaluru and incidentally
>> discussing there the progress of this legal case with the other party who
>> was an attendee, I was bombarded with WMF donation banner-ads, as a
>> logged-in user, which carried through till mid-December 2016 when I was
>> at Sri Lanka and Kathmandu but which curiously stopped when I reached
>> Austraila.
>>
>> 5. So, as a community member and contributor, I would like to know how
>> every dollar raised by WMF is collected, and also spent thereafter.
>>
>> Warmly
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>> I would refer to my answer I gave on the forked thread relating to this
>>> topic.
>>>
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-Septe
>>> mber/088570.html
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Seddon
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>>> i/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
>>
>>
>

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banners for logged-in users (was:How can we fix the two-stage page loading problem?)

Lodewijk
hi david,

i'll respond inline.

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 10:08 AM, David Emrany <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi lodewijk
>
> I've altered the subject line at your suggestion.
>

thank you.

>
> The name of the case (and the opposite party) is equally well known to
> Wikimedia-Legal. The first decision in the case is online at the WIPO
> website, however, since it is still under litigation, I am not linking
> to it under the WP:OUTING policies, and it would be far better that
> whoever speaks for WMF links to it.
>

entirely different topic. lets no mingle that.


>
> I am categorically saying
>
> 1) In 2016, WMF's Asian fund-raising campaign in SAARC began 2 or 3
> weeks before they started elsewhere, probably to coincide with the
> local festive season when people are receptive to giving.
>

fundraising happens all over the world at different times - nobody is
denying that, and I see no problem with that.


>
> 2) The WMF banner ads for SAARC did not discrimnate between logged-in
> users and readers.
>

that is your claim, so much is clear. Do you have anything to back that up
in other accounts. Also, this does not consider the simple possibility of
human error.


>
> 3) Perhaps WMF learned from all this and adapted it to their non-Asian
> ad banner / email solicitation campaigns which began from 29 Nov 2016
> ?.
>

I must say that seddon sounds better informed, and has a more plausable
explanation, even if it were correct.


>
> 4) Perhaps you have an inherent COI in this case to suppress the
> questionable means by how WMF funds / endowments are raised, because
> you are on the consuming side ?
>

I mostly have beef with unfounded or unhelpful criticism.


>
> If it is evidence you want, try this for intelligent hounding ?
>
> https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/wikipedias-new-email-
> campaign-is-a-master-class-in-emotional-intelligence.html


i'm missing the relevance of the email campaign?

>
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/jimmy_wales_
> wikipedia_fundraising_promise/



i'm sorry, but where it comes to the register, i refuse to take their
coverage serious.


>
> PS: I would certainly like specific clarity from WMF on how much was
> paid in 2014-15 for legal services "to" Jonesday and how much was paid
> "through" Jonesday.
>
>
again, straying off-topic. lets not go there.

best,
lodewijk


> warmly
>
> David
>
> On 9/11/17, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > hi david,
> >
> > as with your accusations regarding the spending, my question would be
> > whether
> > you have anything to substantiate it. Seddon was clear: it did not
> happen,
> > unless perhaps a human error in a minimal number of campaigns. If you
> have
> > that then please bring that up in a *separate* thead.
> >
> > you're going more and more off topic. I suggest that we return to the
> > question
> > at hand: the two stage loading problem.
> >
> > lodewijk
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 8:41 AM, David Emrany <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Joseph
> >>
> >> Thanks for that link.
> >>
> >> *NB*: I hope that the list moderators shall not censor / block / unduly
> >> delay this important internal conversation we are having concerning WMF
> >> self-financing model.
> >>
> >> Since this concerns the WMF fund-raising drives of Nov-Dec 2016, I'm
> >> linking to the following messages
> >>
> >> 1. *[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Foundation Form
> 990
> >> for FY 2014-2015 now on-wiki*
> >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-May/084254.html
> >
> >>
> >> *"WMF's sheer wastage of donated money (incl. lunch
> >> money from Scottish schoolkids) on unnecessary litigation, I cite that
> >> the single most prominent case they defended in the period was
> >> apparently a domain name dispute (said to billed at US$ 317,490) in
> >> which the opposite party (a Wikipedian of long standing) who had only
> >> booked the domain name to prevent it from being snaffled by "cyber
> >> squatters"  had immediately offered to donate it WMF free of cost
> >> before the case began. Had WMF accepted that voluntary and good faith
> >> donation offer, they would have also got back 75% of the filing fees
> >> (a not insubstantial amount).
> >>
> >> Dave"*
> >>
> >>
> >> 2. *Reply by Greg Varnum (WMF) on this mailing list*
> >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-May/084276.html
> >
> >>
> >> *"As for the question about why the Wikimedia Foundationspent $317,490
> >> fighting "cybersquatters" that offeredto donate the domain in dispute:
> >> We’re not sure where this question comes from, as we haven’t dealt with
> a
> >> case that fits this description. We do not fight cybersquatters who
> offer
> >> to donate their domains (especially if they are community members),and,
> to
> >> date, we have not spent anything approachingthat much money on this type
> >> of case."*
> >>
> >> 3.   *Your donation keeps Wikipedia and free knowledge thriving*
> >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/11/29/wikimedia-
> foundation-annual-fundraiser/>
> >>
> >> "Legal defense to preserve your right to access, share, and remix
> >> knowledge, including court battles won over Wikimedia content in Brazil
> >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/09/14/rosanah-fienngo/>, Germany
> >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/08/09/victory-germany-
> appeal-dismissed/>,
> >> France <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/06/20/france-legal-victory/>,
> and
> >> India."
> >>
> >> including unreplied comments on why the India court battles were not
> >> linked unlike the others
> >> So to sum up:
> >>
> >> 1. The WMF form 990 says US law firm "JonesDay" received US$ 1,742,916
> >> for legal services in 2014-15
> >>
> >> 2. WMF is unprepared to specifically inform the community how much of
> >> that was spent on fighting a specific "cyber-squatter" from India (my
> own
> >> sources at the time said US$ 300,000 was paid by WMF to JonesDay for
> this
> >> case, mainly billable hours for JD partner Carrie Kiedrowski).
> >>
> >> 3. WMF is unprepared to specifically inform the community whether or not
> >> this cyber squatter (who claims to be a community member since 2003) had
> >> straightaway offered to donate the domain name free of cost to the WMF
> >> and close the case, however, WMF rejected the offer and instead ran up
> huge
> >> legal bills which were financed by donations, and probably continues to
> >> do so since that case is still ongoing in India's legal system .
> >>
> >> 4. I distinctly recall that when I was in India in mid-November 2016,
> >> attending the Opendaylight Linux forum in Bengaluru and incidentally
> >> discussing there the progress of this legal case with the other party
> who
> >> was an attendee, I was bombarded with WMF donation banner-ads, as a
> >> logged-in user, which carried through till mid-December 2016 when I was
> >> at Sri Lanka and Kathmandu but which curiously stopped when I reached
> >> Austraila.
> >>
> >> 5. So, as a community member and contributor, I would like to know how
> >> every dollar raised by WMF is collected, and also spent thereafter.
> >>
> >> Warmly
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi David,
> >>>
> >>> I would refer to my answer I gave on the forked thread relating to this
> >>> topic.
> >>>
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-Septe
> >>> mber/088570.html
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Seddon
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> >>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> >>> i/Wikimedia-l
> >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banners for logged-in users (was:How can we fix the two-stage page loading problem?)

Romaine Wiki-2
In reply to this post by Joseph Seddon-6
I am sorry to say but I am constantly logged in and do see fundraising
banners every year.

Each time when it was announced fundraising banners would come, I have seen
them logged in, in multiple countries.

Romaine


Op dinsdag 5 september 2017 heeft Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]> het
volgende geschreven:

> Hey Strainu,
>
> You are probably right in that you saw a banner but regarding specifically
> fundraising banners, I am 100% certain that the WMF does not and has not
> for some years actively shown banners to users who are logged in. The
> caveat with that is this does not preclude any possibility of human error
> or a software bug. I'm not aware of any specific occasion where this has
> occurred in the last two years but with a piece of software that serves
> billions of page views, across 20-30 countries and some probably some 3000
> banner tests during that period, probabilities that something hadn't gone
> wrong start reaching levels of sigma that not even I would attempt to claim
> :P
>
> Regards
>
> Seddon
>
> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Strainu <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally different.
> >
> > 2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>:
> > > WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several
> > years.
> >
> > While I wouldn't bet my life on it, I'm pretty sure I saw banners on
> > mobile just last month, while being logged in.
> >
> > Strainu
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Seddon
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5 Sep 2017 08:33, "Lodewijk" <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hey Ori,
> > >>
> > >> I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could indeed
> > work
> > >> well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations comes
> > from
> > >> logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite
> > relevant
> > >> for logged in users.
> > >>
> > >> Lodewijk
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia
> > projects at
> > >> > the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing it.
> > And
> > >> > then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central
> > notice /
> > >> > gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the page
> > again,
> > >> > or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to
> undo
> > the
> > >> > change you just made since you made it in the wrong part of the
> page.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Or you click "edit" and it hits the banner that suddenly popped up
> > >> > under your click. AAAAAAAAAAAA
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > One possible solution would be to exempt anyone who edits an article
> > from
> > >> > being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable expiry.
> > Since
> > >> > only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact on
> > the
> > >> > WMF's bottom line to be negligible.
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > >> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Seddon
>
> *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)*
> *Wikimedia Foundation*
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banners for logged-in users (was:How can we fix the two-stage page loading problem?)

Joseph Seddon-6
Hey David & Romaine,

I wanted to just give a quick reply to let you know that I am looking into
this further.

I will reiterate that WMF fundraising does not and has not actively shown
fundraising banners to logged in users for the past five years and I do
apologise if you've been disrupted in your work whether through human or
technical error.

The possible causes for this are numerous and it will take time to identify
the scale, cause and solution to this.

Regards
Seddon

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Romaine Wiki <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I am sorry to say but I am constantly logged in and do see fundraising
> banners every year.
>
> Each time when it was announced fundraising banners would come, I have seen
> them logged in, in multiple countries.
>
> Romaine
>
>
> Op dinsdag 5 september 2017 heeft Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> het
> volgende geschreven:
>
> > Hey Strainu,
> >
> > You are probably right in that you saw a banner but regarding
> specifically
> > fundraising banners, I am 100% certain that the WMF does not and has not
> > for some years actively shown banners to users who are logged in. The
> > caveat with that is this does not preclude any possibility of human error
> > or a software bug. I'm not aware of any specific occasion where this has
> > occurred in the last two years but with a piece of software that serves
> > billions of page views, across 20-30 countries and some probably some
> 3000
> > banner tests during that period, probabilities that something hadn't gone
> > wrong start reaching levels of sigma that not even I would attempt to
> claim
> > :P
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Seddon
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Strainu <[hidden email]
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally
> different.
> > >
> > > 2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]
> > <javascript:;>>:
> > > > WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several
> > > years.
> > >
> > > While I wouldn't bet my life on it, I'm pretty sure I saw banners on
> > > mobile just last month, while being logged in.
> > >
> > > Strainu
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Seddon
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 5 Sep 2017 08:33, "Lodewijk" <[hidden email]
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hey Ori,
> > > >>
> > > >> I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could
> indeed
> > > work
> > > >> well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations
> comes
> > > from
> > > >> logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite
> > > relevant
> > > >> for logged in users.
> > > >>
> > > >> Lodewijk
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <[hidden email]
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <[hidden email]
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <[hidden email]
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia
> > > projects at
> > > >> > the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing
> it.
> > > And
> > > >> > then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central
> > > notice /
> > > >> > gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the page
> > > again,
> > > >> > or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to
> > undo
> > > the
> > > >> > change you just made since you made it in the wrong part of the
> > page.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Or you click "edit" and it hits the banner that suddenly popped up
> > > >> > under your click. AAAAAAAAAAAA
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > One possible solution would be to exempt anyone who edits an
> article
> > > from
> > > >> > being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable expiry.
> > > Since
> > > >> > only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact
> on
> > > the
> > > >> > WMF's bottom line to be negligible.
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ,
> > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >> >
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > > >> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Seddon
> >
> > *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)*
> > *Wikimedia Foundation*
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
Seddon

*Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)*
*Wikimedia Foundation*
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banners for logged-in users (was:How can we fix the two-stage page loading problem?)

Liam Wyatt
For what it's worth - and this might explain some people's circumstances:
I see many fundraising banners each year, even though I'm logged in, but
the reason I see them is because I've clicked on a Wikipedia article link
while using a third-party website (e.g. from Facebook, or twitter). In
those cases when I land on the wikipedia article i'm still within the
'mini-broswer' of facebook etc and the fundraising banner system can not
know that I'm logged in on my primary browser. This happen equally on my
desktop and then also on my mobile phone.

So, while it is true that the WMF is not showing banners to logged in
people, it is equally true that I see a lot of banners (when I've clicked
on wikipedia links from within other websites/platforms). No one is lying -
it's just we're talking about what we mean by 'logged in' differently.

This does not explain every possible circumstance, for every person, for
why people in this thread are saying that they see banners even though
they're logged in. But it is one explanation of a common situation that
might explain things for some people.

Hope that helps,
-Liam / Wittylama

wittylama.com
Peace, love & metadata

On 12 September 2017 at 18:41, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey David & Romaine,
>
> I wanted to just give a quick reply to let you know that I am looking into
> this further.
>
> I will reiterate that WMF fundraising does not and has not actively shown
> fundraising banners to logged in users for the past five years and I do
> apologise if you've been disrupted in your work whether through human or
> technical error.
>
> The possible causes for this are numerous and it will take time to identify
> the scale, cause and solution to this.
>
> Regards
> Seddon
>
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Romaine Wiki <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I am sorry to say but I am constantly logged in and do see fundraising
> > banners every year.
> >
> > Each time when it was announced fundraising banners would come, I have
> seen
> > them logged in, in multiple countries.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> >
> > Op dinsdag 5 september 2017 heeft Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> > het
> > volgende geschreven:
> >
> > > Hey Strainu,
> > >
> > > You are probably right in that you saw a banner but regarding
> > specifically
> > > fundraising banners, I am 100% certain that the WMF does not and has
> not
> > > for some years actively shown banners to users who are logged in. The
> > > caveat with that is this does not preclude any possibility of human
> error
> > > or a software bug. I'm not aware of any specific occasion where this
> has
> > > occurred in the last two years but with a piece of software that serves
> > > billions of page views, across 20-30 countries and some probably some
> > 3000
> > > banner tests during that period, probabilities that something hadn't
> gone
> > > wrong start reaching levels of sigma that not even I would attempt to
> > claim
> > > :P
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Seddon
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Strainu <[hidden email]
> > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally
> > different.
> > > >
> > > > 2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]
> > > <javascript:;>>:
> > > > > WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several
> > > > years.
> > > >
> > > > While I wouldn't bet my life on it, I'm pretty sure I saw banners on
> > > > mobile just last month, while being logged in.
> > > >
> > > > Strainu
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Seddon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5 Sep 2017 08:33, "Lodewijk" <[hidden email]
> > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hey Ori,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could
> > indeed
> > > > work
> > > > >> well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations
> > comes
> > > > from
> > > > >> logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite
> > > > relevant
> > > > >> for logged in users.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Lodewijk
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <[hidden email]
> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <[hidden email]
> > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <[hidden email]
> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia
> > > > projects at
> > > > >> > the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing
> > it.
> > > > And
> > > > >> > then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central
> > > > notice /
> > > > >> > gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the
> page
> > > > again,
> > > > >> > or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to
> > > undo
> > > > the
> > > > >> > change you just made since you made it in the wrong part of the
> > > page.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Or you click "edit" and it hits the banner that suddenly popped
> up
> > > > >> > under your click. AAAAAAAAAAAA
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > One possible solution would be to exempt anyone who edits an
> > article
> > > > from
> > > > >> > being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable
> expiry.
> > > > Since
> > > > >> > only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > >> > WMF's bottom line to be negligible.
> > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > ,
> > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ,
> > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Seddon
> > >
> > > *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)*
> > > *Wikimedia Foundation*
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Seddon
>
> *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)*
> *Wikimedia Foundation*
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>