[Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

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[Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Fæ
TL;DR
Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
& goodbyes for our public email lists?

BACKGROUND
Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.

Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
don't get flagged in recent changes.

This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
was aiming for.

PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.

Fae

On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:
...
> I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board for
> the time and effort they have spent.
>
>    - that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your mistake
>    caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
>
> I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
...
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

MF-Warburg-2
As a mostly silent reader of this list, I'd like to spammingly +1 this
message. There's hardly anything more superfluous than these "Welcome from
Wikimedia Schleswig-Holstein as well!!!!" mails.
Am 13.01.2016 12:12 schrieb "Fæ" <[hidden email]>:

> TL;DR
> Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> & goodbyes for our public email lists?
>
> BACKGROUND
> Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
> without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.
>
> Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
> a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
> equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> don't get flagged in recent changes.
>
> This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> was aiming for.
>
> PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
>
> Fae
>
> On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
> > I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> > Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board for
> > the time and effort they have spent.
> >
> >    - that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your
> mistake
> >    caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
> >
> > I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> ...
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Asaf Bartov-2
+1 from me too, and to not be spammy myself, I'll add:

one very appropriate way to do welcomes and thanks is *on-wiki*.  Notes
welcoming people (or announcing new boards etc.) should, as a matter of
habit, include a wiki URL (the user's page, or the affiliate's page, etc.),
where people would be invited to leave thank/welcome notes. People
interested in others' messages could watchlist the page, or read the
accumulated messages all at once, and the list would be quieter.

   A.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 4:06 AM, MF-Warburg <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> As a mostly silent reader of this list, I'd like to spammingly +1 this
> message. There's hardly anything more superfluous than these "Welcome from
> Wikimedia Schleswig-Holstein as well!!!!" mails.
> Am 13.01.2016 12:12 schrieb "Fæ" <[hidden email]>:
>
> > TL;DR
> > Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> > & goodbyes for our public email lists?
> >
> > BACKGROUND
> > Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> > year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> > awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
> > without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> > notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> > effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> > muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.
> >
> > Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
> > a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> > noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> > something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> > part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
> > equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> > don't get flagged in recent changes.
> >
> > This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> > was aiming for.
> >
> > PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> > online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
> >
> > Fae
> >
> > On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > ...
> > > I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> > > Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board
> for
> > > the time and effort they have spent.
> > >
> > >    - that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your
> > mistake
> > >    caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
> > >
> > > I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> > ...
> > --
> > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
    Asaf Bartov
    Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
The drawback is that not everyone has the inclination to read everything on
Meta as well. At some stage it is just too much. By insisting on silence,
the silence may become overwhelming and it increases the notion that this
list is only for polical tigers.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 13 January 2016 at 18:00, Asaf Bartov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 from me too, and to not be spammy myself, I'll add:
>
> one very appropriate way to do welcomes and thanks is *on-wiki*.  Notes
> welcoming people (or announcing new boards etc.) should, as a matter of
> habit, include a wiki URL (the user's page, or the affiliate's page, etc.),
> where people would be invited to leave thank/welcome notes. People
> interested in others' messages could watchlist the page, or read the
> accumulated messages all at once, and the list would be quieter.
>
>    A.
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 4:06 AM, MF-Warburg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > As a mostly silent reader of this list, I'd like to spammingly +1 this
> > message. There's hardly anything more superfluous than these "Welcome
> from
> > Wikimedia Schleswig-Holstein as well!!!!" mails.
> > Am 13.01.2016 12:12 schrieb "Fæ" <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > TL;DR
> > > Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> > > & goodbyes for our public email lists?
> > >
> > > BACKGROUND
> > > Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> > > year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> > > awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
> > > without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> > > notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> > > effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> > > muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.
> > >
> > > Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
> > > a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> > > noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> > > something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> > > part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
> > > equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> > > don't get flagged in recent changes.
> > >
> > > This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> > > was aiming for.
> > >
> > > PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> > > online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
> > >
> > > Fae
> > >
> > > On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > ...
> > > > I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> > > > Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board
> > for
> > > > the time and effort they have spent.
> > > >
> > > >    - that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your
> > > mistake
> > > >    caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> > > ...
> > > --
> > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
>     Asaf Bartov
>     Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Chris Keating-2
To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list (in
the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we didn't
rule these emails out.

After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
information then pile-on negative threads with equally little information
will probably still remain.

Chris

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hoi,
> The drawback is that not everyone has the inclination to read everything on
> Meta as well. At some stage it is just too much. By insisting on silence,
> the silence may become overwhelming and it increases the notion that this
> list is only for polical tigers.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
> On 13 January 2016 at 18:00, Asaf Bartov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > +1 from me too, and to not be spammy myself, I'll add:
> >
> > one very appropriate way to do welcomes and thanks is *on-wiki*.  Notes
> > welcoming people (or announcing new boards etc.) should, as a matter of
> > habit, include a wiki URL (the user's page, or the affiliate's page,
> etc.),
> > where people would be invited to leave thank/welcome notes. People
> > interested in others' messages could watchlist the page, or read the
> > accumulated messages all at once, and the list would be quieter.
> >
> >    A.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 4:06 AM, MF-Warburg <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As a mostly silent reader of this list, I'd like to spammingly +1 this
> > > message. There's hardly anything more superfluous than these "Welcome
> > from
> > > Wikimedia Schleswig-Holstein as well!!!!" mails.
> > > Am 13.01.2016 12:12 schrieb "Fæ" <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > TL;DR
> > > > Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> > > > & goodbyes for our public email lists?
> > > >
> > > > BACKGROUND
> > > > Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> > > > year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> > > > awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and
> goodbyes
> > > > without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> > > > notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> > > > effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> > > > muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile
> phone.
> > > >
> > > > Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than
> making
> > > > a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> > > > noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> > > > something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> > > > part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute
> them;
> > > > equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> > > > don't get flagged in recent changes.
> > > >
> > > > This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> > > > was aiming for.
> > > >
> > > > PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> > > > online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
> > > >
> > > > Fae
> > > >
> > > > On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > > I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the
> Wikimedia
> > > > > Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same
> board
> > > for
> > > > > the time and effort they have spent.
> > > > >
> > > > >    - that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your
> > > > mistake
> > > > >    caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> > > > ...
> > > > --
> > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >     Asaf Bartov
> >     Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
> >
> > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> > sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> > https://donate.wikimedia.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Milos Rancic-2
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Chris Keating
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list (in
> the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we didn't
> rule these emails out.
>
> After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
> information then pile-on negative threads with equally little information
> will probably still remain.

Although I am quite rarely sending "thank you" messages (OK, it's not
just "quite rarely", as I sent it once and it was privately to Cary
Bass), I tend to agree with Chris. This list is quite tough and it's
nice to see thanking and welcoming threads, no matter if I am not
reading them.

As sending those messages is quite controllable -- meaning that people
from WMF/chapters/similar structures are doing that, I think simple
addition into the subject line like "[notification]" would allow those
who don't like to filter such messages.

--
Milos

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Peter Southwood
In reply to this post by Fæ
I totally second this.
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fæ
Sent: Wednesday, 13 January 2016 1:11 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

TL;DR
Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos & goodbyes for our public email lists?

BACKGROUND
Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.

Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them; equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they don't get flagged in recent changes.

This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he was aiming for.

PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.

Fae

On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:
...
> I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board
> for the time and effort they have spent.
>
>    - that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your mistake
>    caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
>
> I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
...
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4489/11387 - Release Date: 01/12/16


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Shabab Mustafa
In reply to this post by Fæ
And "thank you" Fæ, for brining this up! [pun intended] [sarcasm alert]
[weapons down]

Pardon my poor sense of humour, but I couldn't resist! :P

I believe "thank you" and "please" are magic words, specially in voluntary
works. I agree with Chris.
On Jan 13, 2016 5:11 PM, "Fæ" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> TL;DR
> Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> & goodbyes for our public email lists?
>
> BACKGROUND
> Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
> without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.
>
> Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
> a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
> equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> don't get flagged in recent changes.
>
> This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> was aiming for.
>
> PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
>
> Fae
>
> On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
> > I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> > Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board for
> > the time and effort they have spent.
> >
> >    - that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your
> mistake
> >    caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
> >
> > I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> ...
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Andrea Zanni-2
I agree with Chris too!
Thank you Chris!

Aubrey.
Il 13/gen/2016 22:32 "Shabab Mustafa" <[hidden email]> ha scritto:

> And "thank you" Fæ, for brining this up! [pun intended] [sarcasm alert]
> [weapons down]
>
> Pardon my poor sense of humour, but I couldn't resist! :P
>
> I believe "thank you" and "please" are magic words, specially in voluntary
> works. I agree with Chris.
> On Jan 13, 2016 5:11 PM, "Fæ" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > TL;DR
> > Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> > & goodbyes for our public email lists?
> >
> > BACKGROUND
> > Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> > year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> > awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
> > without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> > notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> > effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> > muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.
> >
> > Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
> > a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> > noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> > something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> > part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
> > equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> > don't get flagged in recent changes.
> >
> > This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> > was aiming for.
> >
> > PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> > online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
> >
> > Fae
> >
> > On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > ...
> > > I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> > > Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board
> for
> > > the time and effort they have spent.
> > >
> > >    - that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your
> > mistake
> > >    caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
> > >
> > > I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> > ...
> > --
> > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Gergo Tisza
In reply to this post by Chris Keating-2
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>
> To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list (in
> the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we didn't
> rule these emails out.
>
> After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
> information then pile-on negative threads with equally little information
> will probably still remain.

+1
I would much rather filter outrage spam :-) There is more of it, and unlike
thanks, it tends to have a demoralizing effect.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Lodewijk
I do agree in general that generic '+1' emails contribute very little. If
you really want to thank someone, or welcome them, it probably makes a
better impression if you write a little more than that. Say a few lines to
introduce the list, give them a tip or offer them to show them around.

Personally, I prefer to send those mails offlist by the way - but I can
feel with people that with all the dramaspam (how important and justified
it sometimes may be/feel) you kinda feel a need to balance that out ;)

Lodewijk

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 3:17 AM, Gergo Tisza <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Chris Keating <[hidden email]
> >
> wrote:
> >
> > To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list
> (in
> > the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we didn't
> > rule these emails out.
> >
> > After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
> > information then pile-on negative threads with equally little information
> > will probably still remain.
>
> +1
> I would much rather filter outrage spam :-) There is more of it, and unlike
> thanks, it tends to have a demoralizing effect.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Gnangarra
Crikey, balance, spam, dont contribute, very little contribution, +1 pile
on (though we dont see many -1 pile ons).....

we are society/community that works because we collaborate we assume good
faith int he actions of others, we know that while we speak(email) in
english many of  us have different levels of understanding, hey even those
fluent in english dont necessarily understand what each other is saying.

Fae is right there could be a better ways to communicate we should explore
how to achieve that and we should keep going back to that very question
from time to time improve how we do things.

the most important point that is;
Its just good manners to welcome people, and to say thank you.


Consider the advice to send a message off list, would you really like to be
on the receiving end of a 100 thank you emails, or 100 welcome emails all
saying similar but possibly different things wow talk of creating  spam,
then that person would feel obliged to answer every one of them
individually. The beauty of the list is we all see and acknowledge an
appreciation of what someone has achieved or to welcome them to the group
and they only have to respond once or twice to the group.

When you distill it down all sharing an equal burden of the odd extra
email, is still a better way to support the communities growth than making
one individual accept a heavy burden so we dont have to see that practice
people exercising courtesy and good manners publicly



On 14 January 2016 at 15:13, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I do agree in general that generic '+1' emails contribute very little. If
> you really want to thank someone, or welcome them, it probably makes a
> better impression if you write a little more than that. Say a few lines to
> introduce the list, give them a tip or offer them to show them around.
>
> Personally, I prefer to send those mails offlist by the way - but I can
> feel with people that with all the dramaspam (how important and justified
> it sometimes may be/feel) you kinda feel a need to balance that out ;)
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 3:17 AM, Gergo Tisza <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Chris Keating <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list
> > (in
> > > the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we
> didn't
> > > rule these emails out.
> > >
> > > After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
> > > information then pile-on negative threads with equally little
> information
> > > will probably still remain.
> >
> > +1
> > I would much rather filter outrage spam :-) There is more of it, and
> unlike
> > thanks, it tends to have a demoralizing effect.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
GN.
President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Ricordisamoa
In reply to this post by Fæ
Thankspam is not big a problem in my opinion. One or two seconds per
message and you're done, then your mind will be full of good. What I
find most annoying are long emails with few actual contents. You have to
read them to find out they were not worth reading.

Il 13/01/2016 12:11, Fæ ha scritto:

> TL;DR
> Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> & goodbyes for our public email lists?
>
> BACKGROUND
> Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
> without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.
>
> Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
> a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
> equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> don't get flagged in recent changes.
>
> This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> was aiming for.
>
> PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
>
> Fae
>
> On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
>> I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
>> Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board for
>> the time and effort they have spent.
>>
>>     - that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your mistake
>>     caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
>>
>> I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> ...


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Vi to
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
These days those messages are the best stuffs sent to this list, I'm
definitely not bored by them. Anyone subscribing this list knows is a
500 emails/months list.

Vito

Il 13/01/2016 19:15, Milos Rancic ha scritto:

> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Chris Keating
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list (in
>> the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we didn't
>> rule these emails out.
>>
>> After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
>> information then pile-on negative threads with equally little information
>> will probably still remain.
> Although I am quite rarely sending "thank you" messages (OK, it's not
> just "quite rarely", as I sent it once and it was privately to Cary
> Bass), I tend to agree with Chris. This list is quite tough and it's
> nice to see thanking and welcoming threads, no matter if I am not
> reading them.
>
> As sending those messages is quite controllable -- meaning that people
> from WMF/chapters/similar structures are doing that, I think simple
> addition into the subject line like "[notification]" would allow those
> who don't like to filter such messages.
>


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Luis Villa
In reply to this post by Gergo Tisza
I agree that thankspam is somewhat irritating, but it is also a good way to
make people feel welcome and appreciated. An alternative is to consider
moving wikimedia-l to a tool like discourse.org that has (1) built-in
likes, which communicate welcome and appreciation without creating noise
and (2) ability for all users to mute/ignore specific threads. (Also better
moderation tools, and likely somewhat more welcoming to people who don't
use email much, or feel overwhelmed by it - both of whom are large groups!)

Obviously that would be somewhat of a big change, but it's something we can
look into (low priority! no promises!) if people have interest.

Luis

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Gergo Tisza <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Chris Keating <[hidden email]
> >
> wrote:
> >
> > To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list
> (in
> > the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we didn't
> > rule these emails out.
> >
> > After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
> > information then pile-on negative threads with equally little information
> > will probably still remain.
>
> +1
> I would much rather filter outrage spam :-) There is more of it, and unlike
> thanks, it tends to have a demoralizing effect.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
Luis Villa
Sr. Director of Community Engagement
Wikimedia Foundation
*Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share
in the sum of all knowledge.*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

metasj
On Jan 14, 2016 8:35 PM, "Luis Villa" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I agree that thankspam is somewhat irritating, but it is also a good way
to
> make people feel welcome and appreciated. An alternative is to consider
> moving wikimedia-l to a tool like discourse.org

Thanks for that idea. Discourse looks great.  Maybe worth testing out
casually for some wiki* discussions before deciding whether or not to try
replacing a particular list.

Sj
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Wiegand Alice
My experiences with discourse in a non-Wikimedia context is great.  Worth a try.

Alice.

----- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -----
Von: "Samuel Klein" <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: ‎15.‎01.‎2016 02:46
An: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <[hidden email]>
Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

On Jan 14, 2016 8:35 PM, "Luis Villa" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I agree that thankspam is somewhat irritating, but it is also a good way
to
> make people feel welcome and appreciated. An alternative is to consider
> moving wikimedia-l to a tool like discourse.org

Thanks for that idea. Discourse looks great.  Maybe worth testing out
casually for some wiki* discussions before deciding whether or not to try
replacing a particular list.

Sj
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Andrea Zanni-2
If I'm not mistaken, we recently discussed about this. I'd love using
Discourse myself...

Aubrey
Il 15/gen/2016 06:08 "Alice Wiegand" <[hidden email]> ha scritto:

> My experiences with discourse in a non-Wikimedia context is great.  Worth
> a try.
>
> Alice.
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -----
> Von: "Samuel Klein" <[hidden email]>
> Gesendet: ‎15.‎01.‎2016 02:46
> An: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <[hidden email]>
> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam
>
> On Jan 14, 2016 8:35 PM, "Luis Villa" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I agree that thankspam is somewhat irritating, but it is also a good way
> to
> > make people feel welcome and appreciated. An alternative is to consider
> > moving wikimedia-l to a tool like discourse.org
>
> Thanks for that idea. Discourse looks great.  Maybe worth testing out
> casually for some wiki* discussions before deciding whether or not to try
> replacing a particular list.
>
> Sj
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Milos Rancic-2
So, what do we need to start using it? An installation on Wikimedia servers?

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Andrea Zanni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If I'm not mistaken, we recently discussed about this. I'd love using
> Discourse myself...
>
> Aubrey
> Il 15/gen/2016 06:08 "Alice Wiegand" <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
>> My experiences with discourse in a non-Wikimedia context is great.  Worth
>> a try.
>>
>> Alice.
>>
>> ----- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -----
>> Von: "Samuel Klein" <[hidden email]>
>> Gesendet: ‎15.‎01.‎2016 02:46
>> An: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <[hidden email]>
>> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2016 8:35 PM, "Luis Villa" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > I agree that thankspam is somewhat irritating, but it is also a good way
>> to
>> > make people feel welcome and appreciated. An alternative is to consider
>> > moving wikimedia-l to a tool like discourse.org
>>
>> Thanks for that idea. Discourse looks great.  Maybe worth testing out
>> casually for some wiki* discussions before deciding whether or not to try
>> replacing a particular list.
>>
>> Sj
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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--
Milos

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

Guillaume Paumier-4
In reply to this post by Wiegand Alice
Hello,

Le vendredi 15 janvier 2016, 06:07:54 Alice Wiegand a écrit :
> My experiences with discourse in a non-Wikimedia context is great.  Worth a
> try.

+1.

A few weeks ago, I drafted some notes about moving Wikimedia mailing lists to
Discourse (I posted them on a private wiki; I should have known better).

I've now posted the drafts on Meta: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discourse

I suggest we expand that page and continue this specific discussion on the talk
page.*

* Sadly, we don't have Flow on Meta, so it'll be good ol' wikitext.

--
Guillaume Paumier

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