[Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

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[Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

Nataliia Tymkiv
Dear all,

As Christophe mentioned, BGC has discussed Board composition issue and
decided that the best way is to wait for the results of the governance
review.
It was mentioned in the minutes, by the way [1]

If you have relevant arguments and think that it would make sense for other
people to be aware of these arguments, please, *discuss them on Meta*.
Mailing lists are not very useful for things like that.
There is a talk page for this [2]

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/Minutes_07-08-2016#Board_structure
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/Board_structure&action=edit&redlink=1

Best regards,
antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:22 AM, WereSpielChequers <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Pine has a point. We all know that the founder seat will go eventually.
> Whether it goes on the death or incapacity of the founder or earlier is a
> valid question for the board and the community. I'm not convinced that an
> elections committee should be deciding which posts to elect, and even if
> such governance issues do fall into its remit they should probably focus on
> how to elect first. So I'd say this should be a board decision.
>
> As for the arguments to retain a founder seat for the next few decades, I
> suggest that those who favour such a position try to couch their arguments
> in terms of institutional knowledge, the value of an element of continuity
> and the positives for the community to still retain such a link with our
> founder. Then hope that the incidents of a few months ago fade in memory
> and are not repeated. There is a case to be made for a founder seat, but as
> with any argument in this community there are ways to argue respectfully
> and effectively, and there are arguments that undermine your cause and
> weaken your reputation.
>
>
> WereSpielChequers
>
>
> On 26 July 2016 at 06:39, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to
> >         [hidden email]
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >         https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >         [hidden email]
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >         [hidden email]
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >
> >    2. Re: New Elections Committee (Pine W)
> >    3. Re: New Elections Committee (Gerard Meijssen)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 21:53:59 -0700
> > From: Pine W <[hidden email]>
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Elections Committee
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CAF=
> > [hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Hi BGC,
> >
> > I asked a question earlier in this thread which seems to have been
> > overlooked. Is the BGC (or the Board as a whole) considering whether the
> > Founder's seat will become an elected seat in the forseeable future?
> >
> > Pine
> >
> > On Jul 20, 2016 21:20, "Pine W" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

Peter Southwood
Thanks Natalia, that seems a good way to deal with this issue.
Cheers,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Nataliia Tymkiv
Sent: Tuesday, 26 July 2016 11:18 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

Dear all,

As Christophe mentioned, BGC has discussed Board composition issue and decided that the best way is to wait for the results of the governance review.
It was mentioned in the minutes, by the way [1]

If you have relevant arguments and think that it would make sense for other people to be aware of these arguments, please, *discuss them on Meta*.
Mailing lists are not very useful for things like that.
There is a talk page for this [2]

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/Minutes_07-08-2016#Board_structure
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/Board_structure&action=edit&redlink=1

Best regards,
antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:22 AM, WereSpielChequers < [hidden email]> wrote:

> Pine has a point. We all know that the founder seat will go eventually.
> Whether it goes on the death or incapacity of the founder or earlier
> is a valid question for the board and the community. I'm not convinced
> that an elections committee should be deciding which posts to elect,
> and even if such governance issues do fall into its remit they should
> probably focus on how to elect first. So I'd say this should be a board decision.
>
> As for the arguments to retain a founder seat for the next few
> decades, I suggest that those who favour such a position try to couch
> their arguments in terms of institutional knowledge, the value of an
> element of continuity and the positives for the community to still
> retain such a link with our founder. Then hope that the incidents of a
> few months ago fade in memory and are not repeated. There is a case to
> be made for a founder seat, but as with any argument in this community
> there are ways to argue respectfully and effectively, and there are
> arguments that undermine your cause and weaken your reputation.
>
>
> WereSpielChequers
>
>
> On 26 July 2016 at 06:39, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to
> >         [hidden email]
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >         https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >         [hidden email]
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >         [hidden email]
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >
> >    2. Re: New Elections Committee (Pine W)
> >    3. Re: New Elections Committee (Gerard Meijssen)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 21:53:59 -0700
> > From: Pine W <[hidden email]>
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Elections Committee
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CAF=
> > [hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Hi BGC,
> >
> > I asked a question earlier in this thread which seems to have been
> > overlooked. Is the BGC (or the Board as a whole) considering whether
> > the Founder's seat will become an elected seat in the forseeable future?
> >
> > Pine
> >
> > On Jul 20, 2016 21:20, "Pine W" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

Pine W
In reply to this post by Nataliia Tymkiv
Hi Nataliia,

I'm not sure that I agree with you. The Board and Lila ignored some
inquiries that I made on Meta. Discussions on this mailing list seem to
attract at least as much good-faith participation as discussions on Meta. I
would suggest that inquiries could be made in either venue, and the Board
can simply acknowledge and collect them for action during the governance
review.

There are times when highly threaded discussions on wiki are easier to
follow than large quantities of entangled mailing list posts, but that is
an exception, and in any case I follow the philosophy of trying to meet
people where they are whenever reasonably feasible.

Thanks,

Pine

On Jul 26, 2016 02:18, "Nataliia Tymkiv" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> As Christophe mentioned, BGC has discussed Board composition issue and
> decided that the best way is to wait for the results of the governance
> review.
> It was mentioned in the minutes, by the way [1]
>
> If you have relevant arguments and think that it would make sense for other
> people to be aware of these arguments, please, *discuss them on Meta*.
> Mailing lists are not very useful for things like that.
> There is a talk page for this [2]
>
> [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/Minutes_07-08-2016#Board_structure
> [2]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/Board_structure&action=edit&redlink=1
>
> Best regards,
> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
>
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:22 AM, WereSpielChequers <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Pine has a point. We all know that the founder seat will go eventually.
> > Whether it goes on the death or incapacity of the founder or earlier is a
> > valid question for the board and the community. I'm not convinced that an
> > elections committee should be deciding which posts to elect, and even if
> > such governance issues do fall into its remit they should probably focus
> on
> > how to elect first. So I'd say this should be a board decision.
> >
> > As for the arguments to retain a founder seat for the next few decades, I
> > suggest that those who favour such a position try to couch their
> arguments
> > in terms of institutional knowledge, the value of an element of
> continuity
> > and the positives for the community to still retain such a link with our
> > founder. Then hope that the incidents of a few months ago fade in memory
> > and are not repeated. There is a case to be made for a founder seat, but
> as
> > with any argument in this community there are ways to argue respectfully
> > and effectively, and there are arguments that undermine your cause and
> > weaken your reputation.
> >
> >
> > WereSpielChequers
> >
> >
> > On 26 July 2016 at 06:39, <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to
> > >         [hidden email]
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > >         https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > >         [hidden email]
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > >         [hidden email]
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > >
> > >    2. Re: New Elections Committee (Pine W)
> > >    3. Re: New Elections Committee (Gerard Meijssen)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 21:53:59 -0700
> > > From: Pine W <[hidden email]>
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Elections Committee
> > > Message-ID:
> > >         <CAF=
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> > >
> > > Hi BGC,
> > >
> > > I asked a question earlier in this thread which seems to have been
> > > overlooked. Is the BGC (or the Board as a whole) considering whether
> the
> > > Founder's seat will become an elected seat in the forseeable future?
> > >
> > > Pine
> > >
> > > On Jul 20, 2016 21:20, "Pine W" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

Liam Wyatt
On Wednesday, July 27, 2016, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> There are times when highly threaded discussions on wiki are easier to
> follow than large quantities of entangled mailing list posts, but that is
> an exception, and in any case I follow the philosophy of trying to meet
> people where they are whenever reasonably feasible.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pine


That's all well and good, but the significant difference is that email
lists are a "push" form of communication. Everyone subscribed receives
everything that is send, whether or not they're interested in that specific
email. For people who feel the need to comment frequently and at length on
every topic, then putting their comments on wiki is not only better for
collating their points into a coherent whole, but better for the other list
subscribers who don't have to wade through comments that didn't need to be
sent to everyone.


--
wittylama.com
Peace, love & metadata
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

Dan Garry
In reply to this post by Pine W
Hey Pine,

On 27 July 2016 at 08:25, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure that I agree with you. The Board and Lila ignored some
> inquiries that I made on Meta. Discussions on this mailing list seem to
> attract at least as much good-faith participation as discussions on Meta. I
> would suggest that inquiries could be made in either venue, and the Board
> can simply acknowledge and collect them for action during the governance
> review.


If I'm understanding, you're saying that you've previously left questions
on Meta which ended up going unanswered, and therefore you'd prefer to ask
questions on this mailing list to increase your chances of a response.

Increasing the number of open channels of communication also increases the
burden of monitoring those channels to ensure that nothing goes missing.
Therefore, trying to engage in two places will likely increase the chance
of something going missing, rather than decreasing. This is likely why
Nataliia has asked that feedback be given in a single location, so that she
can be sure that she can see any feedback or questions that are given. I
would encourage you to try engaging on Meta, as Nataliia suggests, rather
than here, to reduce the chances that something goes missing or ignored.

Thanks,
Dan

--
Dan Garry
Lead Product Manager, Discovery
Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

Pine W
In reply to this post by Liam Wyatt
I would guess that I receive about 20-100 emails a day (there is a wide
range) related to Wikimedia, and I simply pick out the ones that interest
me. It's very simple to delete or archive emails that I don't want to read,
and I'm willing to accept the noise in exchange for the signal. Wikimedia-l
and Wikitech-l are high volume lists by nature, and that's part of the deal
people make when they subscribe.

In the long run I would like to move to something like Discourse, but as
far as I know WMF has yet to allocate the resources to make that possible.

Pine

On Jul 27, 2016 08:33, "Liam Wyatt" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 27, 2016, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > There are times when highly threaded discussions on wiki are easier to
> > follow than large quantities of entangled mailing list posts, but that is
> > an exception, and in any case I follow the philosophy of trying to meet
> > people where they are whenever reasonably feasible.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Pine
>
>
> That's all well and good, but the significant difference is that email
> lists are a "push" form of communication. Everyone subscribed receives
> everything that is send, whether or not they're interested in that specific
> email. For people who feel the need to comment frequently and at length on
> every topic, then putting their comments on wiki is not only better for
> collating their points into a coherent whole, but better for the other list
> subscribers who don't have to wade through comments that didn't need to be
> sent to everyone.
>
>
> --
> wittylama.com
> Peace, love & metadata
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

Pine W
In reply to this post by Dan Garry
Hi Dan,

As is evidenced by this very discussion, people read and discuss matters on
this list. Those who prefer a lower volume of communication can subscribe
to the Announce list instead.

Pine

On Jul 27, 2016 08:46, "Dan Garry" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey Pine,
>
> On 27 July 2016 at 08:25, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure that I agree with you. The Board and Lila ignored some
> > inquiries that I made on Meta. Discussions on this mailing list seem to
> > attract at least as much good-faith participation as discussions on
> Meta. I
> > would suggest that inquiries could be made in either venue, and the Board
> > can simply acknowledge and collect them for action during the governance
> > review.
>
>
> If I'm understanding, you're saying that you've previously left questions
> on Meta which ended up going unanswered, and therefore you'd prefer to ask
> questions on this mailing list to increase your chances of a response.
>
> Increasing the number of open channels of communication also increases the
> burden of monitoring those channels to ensure that nothing goes missing.
> Therefore, trying to engage in two places will likely increase the chance
> of something going missing, rather than decreasing. This is likely why
> Nataliia has asked that feedback be given in a single location, so that she
> can be sure that she can see any feedback or questions that are given. I
> would encourage you to try engaging on Meta, as Nataliia suggests, rather
> than here, to reduce the chances that something goes missing or ignored.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Garry
> Lead Product Manager, Discovery
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

Alice Wiegand-4
Hi Pine,
there is a simple practical thing I would like to ask you to accept: Not everyone is online 24/7. Even board members aren’t. People have to work, to sleep and to live. While you pick and read only topics of your interest, you assume that my colleagues on the board and I read and follow each thread to answer questions wherever and whenever they arise. That just doesn’t work. Reading mail threads asynchronously makes it really hard and regarding to the frequency and length probably impossible to follow up with discussions in a meaningful way. Nat’s idea to leave your ideas, suggestions, question on that meta-page is the only feasible way to give the BGC, other board members and the community a chance to collect, read, compare, consider and answer in a structured way.

Alice.


> Am 27.07.2016 um 17:49 schrieb Pine W <[hidden email]>:
>
> Hi Dan,
>
> As is evidenced by this very discussion, people read and discuss matters on
> this list. Those who prefer a lower volume of communication can subscribe
> to the Announce list instead.
>
> Pine
>
> On Jul 27, 2016 08:46, "Dan Garry" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hey Pine,
>>
>> On 27 July 2016 at 08:25, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not sure that I agree with you. The Board and Lila ignored some
>>> inquiries that I made on Meta. Discussions on this mailing list seem to
>>> attract at least as much good-faith participation as discussions on
>> Meta. I
>>> would suggest that inquiries could be made in either venue, and the Board
>>> can simply acknowledge and collect them for action during the governance
>>> review.
>>
>>
>> If I'm understanding, you're saying that you've previously left questions
>> on Meta which ended up going unanswered, and therefore you'd prefer to ask
>> questions on this mailing list to increase your chances of a response.
>>
>> Increasing the number of open channels of communication also increases the
>> burden of monitoring those channels to ensure that nothing goes missing.
>> Therefore, trying to engage in two places will likely increase the chance
>> of something going missing, rather than decreasing. This is likely why
>> Nataliia has asked that feedback be given in a single location, so that she
>> can be sure that she can see any feedback or questions that are given. I
>> would encourage you to try engaging on Meta, as Nataliia suggests, rather
>> than here, to reduce the chances that something goes missing or ignored.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>> --
>> Dan Garry
>> Lead Product Manager, Discovery
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

Sam Klein
In reply to this post by Dan Garry
[[m:Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/Board_structure
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/Board_structure&action=edit&redlink=1>
]]

Wiki pages are certainly better for long-term organization of discussions.
They are harder for a few voices to dominate; they can be refactored and
summarized, and skimmed to find discussions among new voices.  Our
translation tools work directly on meta.

A simple mail-to-wiki script could be nice, adding a link from wiki pages
to public email/forum threads.  But one doesn't exist now.

Pine, you are one of the most active posters to this list, by count and
volume; clearly you like mail.  Not everyone does; some are put off by the
power law distribution of posters here.  Nat's suggestion is reasonable;
why not try it and see how it works. Some discussions about board
composition will inevitably occur here; if you see ones that you think are
relevant, you can help ensure they are summarized on that page.

Sam


On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Dan Garry <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey Pine,
>
> On 27 July 2016 at 08:25, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure that I agree with you. The Board and Lila ignored some
> > inquiries that I made on Meta. Discussions on this mailing list seem to
> > attract at least as much good-faith participation as discussions on
> Meta. I
> > would suggest that inquiries could be made in either venue, and the Board
> > can simply acknowledge and collect them for action during the governance
> > review.
>
>
> If I'm understanding, you're saying that you've previously left questions
> on Meta which ended up going unanswered, and therefore you'd prefer to ask
> questions on this mailing list to increase your chances of a response.
>
> Increasing the number of open channels of communication also increases the
> burden of monitoring those channels to ensure that nothing goes missing.
> Therefore, trying to engage in two places will likely increase the chance
> of something going missing, rather than decreasing. This is likely why
> Nataliia has asked that feedback be given in a single location, so that she
> can be sure that she can see any feedback or questions that are given. I
> would encourage you to try engaging on Meta, as Nataliia suggests, rather
> than here, to reduce the chances that something goes missing or ignored.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Garry
> Lead Product Manager, Discovery
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
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>



--
Samuel Klein          @metasj          w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board structure (Was: New Elections Committee)

jmh649
I am happy to read Pine's emails. A mailing list is useful to bring
attention to specific issues as one can only watch a certain percentage of
wikipedia / meta / etc.

J

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Sam Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> [[m:Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/Board_structure
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Governance_Committee/Board_structure&action=edit&redlink=1
> >
> ]]
>
> Wiki pages are certainly better for long-term organization of discussions.
> They are harder for a few voices to dominate; they can be refactored and
> summarized, and skimmed to find discussions among new voices.  Our
> translation tools work directly on meta.
>
> A simple mail-to-wiki script could be nice, adding a link from wiki pages
> to public email/forum threads.  But one doesn't exist now.
>
> Pine, you are one of the most active posters to this list, by count and
> volume; clearly you like mail.  Not everyone does; some are put off by the
> power law distribution of posters here.  Nat's suggestion is reasonable;
> why not try it and see how it works. Some discussions about board
> composition will inevitably occur here; if you see ones that you think are
> relevant, you can help ensure they are summarized on that page.
>
> Sam
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Dan Garry <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hey Pine,
> >
> > On 27 July 2016 at 08:25, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm not sure that I agree with you. The Board and Lila ignored some
> > > inquiries that I made on Meta. Discussions on this mailing list seem to
> > > attract at least as much good-faith participation as discussions on
> > Meta. I
> > > would suggest that inquiries could be made in either venue, and the
> Board
> > > can simply acknowledge and collect them for action during the
> governance
> > > review.
> >
> >
> > If I'm understanding, you're saying that you've previously left questions
> > on Meta which ended up going unanswered, and therefore you'd prefer to
> ask
> > questions on this mailing list to increase your chances of a response.
> >
> > Increasing the number of open channels of communication also increases
> the
> > burden of monitoring those channels to ensure that nothing goes missing.
> > Therefore, trying to engage in two places will likely increase the chance
> > of something going missing, rather than decreasing. This is likely why
> > Nataliia has asked that feedback be given in a single location, so that
> she
> > can be sure that she can see any feedback or questions that are given. I
> > would encourage you to try engaging on Meta, as Nataliia suggests, rather
> > than here, to reduce the chances that something goes missing or ignored.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
> >
> > --
> > Dan Garry
> > Lead Product Manager, Discovery
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein          @metasj          w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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