[Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

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[Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

James Salsman-2
Hi Garfield,

Would you please find out how much the CFAA and CALEA amendements
would be expected to cost readers, editors, and the Foundation
compared to what SOPA or PIPA would have cost if they had passed, and
let the wikimedia-l and advocacy advisors lists know?

Best regards,
James Salsman

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

Jan-Bart de Vreede-3
Hey James

So while we have actively started looking for a new ED I am happy to report that Sue is still on the job !

Which means you do not have to fill in for the position and tell Garfield what to do :)

On a more realistic tone: my gut feeling is that you are asking an impossible question (and aware of this) and I assume that Garfield has much better things to do, but I guess if Sue wants to sound time on this, she will get back to you.

Kind regards,

Jan-Bart de Vreede





On Apr 13, 2013, at 5:03 PM, James Salsman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Garfield,
>
> Would you please find out how much the CFAA and CALEA amendements
> would be expected to cost readers, editors, and the Foundation
> compared to what SOPA or PIPA would have cost if they had passed, and
> let the wikimedia-l and advocacy advisors lists know?
>
> Best regards,
> James Salsman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

James Salsman-2
In reply to this post by James Salsman-2
Jan-Bart,

I reserve the right to speak with anyone at any time on any subject.
Thank you for your reply:

> my gut feeling is that you are asking an impossible question (and aware of this) and I assume that Garfield
> has much better things to do, but I guess if Sue wants to sound time on this, she will get back to you.

It took me about half an hour to derive an answer to the question
which I am confident is accurate to within an order of magnitude.  In
short, the CFAA amendments alone would likely cost readers, editors,
and the Foundation more than 500 times as much as SOPA or PIPA could
have cost, under what I believe is a very reasonable set of
assumptions.

If Sue or Garfield share your opinion that the question is
unanswerable, please let me know right away. Thanks again.

Sincerely,
James Salsman


On Apr 13, 2013, at 5:03 PM, James Salsman <jsalsman at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Garfield,
>
> Would you please find out how much the CFAA and CALEA amendements
> would be expected to cost readers, editors, and the Foundation
> compared to what SOPA or PIPA would have cost if they had passed, and
> let the wikimedia-l and advocacy advisors lists know?
>
> Best regards,
> James Salsman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

Marc-Andre
On 04/13/2013 07:25 PM, James Salsman wrote:
> In
> short, the CFAA amendments alone would likely cost readers, editors,
> and the Foundation more than 500 times as much as SOPA or PIPA could
> have cost, under what I believe is a very reasonable set of
> assumptions.

{{cn}}

-- Marc



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

James Salsman-2
In reply to this post by James Salsman-2
Marc Pelletier wrote:
>
> On 04/13/2013 07:25 PM, James Salsman wrote:
>> In short, the CFAA amendments alone would likely cost readers, editors,
>> and the Foundation more than 500 times as much as SOPA or PIPA could
>> have cost, under what I believe is a very reasonable set of assumptions.
>
> {{cn}}
>
> -- Marc

I will gladly show my work if the Foundation agrees to explain their theory
about why May 2013 fundraising results were disappointing, indicative
of contraction, or any other reason to expect a decline in their growth rate.
I have repeatedly been told that such reasons exist, but nobody has been
able to find them. I think a decimal was misplaced by one.

Since the CFAA problem is less important than it was this morning per

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/04/huffington-post-credits-internet-activists-major-victory-stopping-bad-cfaa-bill

\o/

... I will instead give you my cost estimate of the proposed CALEA changes:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/03/26/andrew_weissmann_fbi_wants_real_time_gmail_dropbox_spying_power.html

How much is a person's privacy worth?
How will this affect article quality?
Will there be chilling effects on editing?
Will there be chilling effects on reading?

The first scenario which springs to mind is about the different decisions
editors make when they think they are being watched by law enforcement.
How many more editors are likely to be potentially subject to criminal
prosecution if they actually are being watched by law enforcement.
That is not a negative number.

The second scenario is, what does this allow in the way of joe-jobs if
someone finds out that they can make law enforcement watch other
people more closely by emailing them keywords? That one probably
spirals into corruption, so we  can assume an asymptotic value of
"unaffordable."

Therefore the cost is greater than SOPA+PIPA, which would have
added the necessary staff to process URL take-down notices, in
proportional to the likelyhood that people in different countries would
start doing that to each other to try to prevail in content disputes.

Best regards,
James

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

Nathan Awrich
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 10:57 PM, James Salsman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I will gladly show my work if the Foundation agrees to explain their theory
> about why May 2013 fundraising results were disappointing, indicative
> of contraction, or any other reason to expect a decline in their growth rate.
> I have repeatedly been told that such reasons exist, but nobody has been
> able to find them. I think a decimal was misplaced by one.

It seems unreasonable to expect them to explain the results of a
fundraising month that has not yet occurred. I snipped the rest of
your reply because it appears to have been intended for a different
mailing list on some other subject.

~Nathan

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
In reply to this post by James Salsman-2
Hello,

Could you provide me relevant links so I may understand this topic?
While I have superficiel knowledge of SOPA and PIPA, I have no idea what
CFAAA and CALEA are.

Le 2013-04-14 01:25, James Salsman a écrit :

> Jan-Bart,
>
> I reserve the right to speak with anyone at any time on any subject.
> Thank you for your reply:
>
>> my gut feeling is that you are asking an impossible question (and
>> aware of this) and I assume that Garfield
>> has much better things to do, but I guess if Sue wants to sound time
>> on this, she will get back to you.
>
> It took me about half an hour to derive an answer to the question
> which I am confident is accurate to within an order of magnitude.  In
> short, the CFAA amendments alone would likely cost readers, editors,
> and the Foundation more than 500 times as much as SOPA or PIPA could
> have cost, under what I believe is a very reasonable set of
> assumptions.
>
> If Sue or Garfield share your opinion that the question is
> unanswerable, please let me know right away. Thanks again.
>
> Sincerely,
> James Salsman
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2013, at 5:03 PM, James Salsman <jsalsman at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Garfield,
>>
>> Would you please find out how much the CFAA and CALEA amendements
>> would be expected to cost readers, editors, and the Foundation
>> compared to what SOPA or PIPA would have cost if they had passed,
>> and
>> let the wikimedia-l and advocacy advisors lists know?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> James Salsman
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

--
Association Culture-Libre
http://www.culture-libre.org/

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
In reply to this post by Marc-Andre
Le 2013-04-14 02:44, Marc A. Pelletier a écrit :

> On 04/13/2013 07:25 PM, James Salsman wrote:
>> In
>> short, the CFAA amendments alone would likely cost readers, editors,
>> and the Foundation more than 500 times as much as SOPA or PIPA could
>> have cost, under what I believe is a very reasonable set of
>> assumptions.
>
> {{cn}}
>
> -- Marc

Could you tell me what is {{cn}} standing for, please?

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

FastLizard4
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[replies inline with quoted message(s)]

On 4/15/2013 12:31 AM, Mathieu Stumpf wrote:
> Le 2013-04-14 02:44, Marc A. Pelletier a écrit :
>>
>> {{cn}}
>>
>> -- Marc
>
> Could you tell me what is {{cn}} standing for, please?

{{cn}} <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cn> is the template on
the English Wikipedia that inserts the little "[citation needed]" text.
 So, in other words, Marc is asking for James to provide sources to back
up his (James') claim.
- --
Sincerely,
Andrew "FastLizard4" Adams
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FastLizard4>
<[hidden email]>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
Le 2013-04-15 09:39, FastLizard4 a écrit :
> {{cn}} <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cn> is the template on
> the English Wikipedia that inserts the little "[citation needed]"
> text.
>  So, in other words, Marc is asking for James to provide sources to
> back
> up his (James') claim.
> - --

Ok, thank you Andrew.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] CFAAA+CALEA vs. SOPA+PIPA: the amortization

Dan Rosenthal
Mathieu: CFAA is the federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, which
criminalizes among other things unauthorized access or exceeding authorized
access of a protected system, and is found at 18 U.S.C. 1030.

CALEA is the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, which is a
federal wiretapping law making it easier for law enforcement to wiretap
certain digital communications; I believe the latest provisions under
discussion involve VoIP.  EFF discusses here:
https://www.eff.org/issues/calea

Hope that helps,

-Dan

Dan Rosenthal


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Mathieu Stumpf <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Le 2013-04-15 09:39, FastLizard4 a écrit :
>
>  {{cn}} <https://en.wikipedia.org/**wiki/Template:Cn<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cn>>
>> is the template on
>> the English Wikipedia that inserts the little "[citation needed]" text.
>>  So, in other words, Marc is asking for James to provide sources to back
>> up his (James') claim.
>> - --
>>
>
> Ok, thank you Andrew.
>
>
>
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