[Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
16 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Ellie Young
The Wikimania Steering Committee and Wikimedia Foundation are seeking
expressions of interest from interested parties for
 hosting
Wikimani
a 2020.

Please see the following for more information:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2020

If you are interested in discussing the possibilities and working with the
WMF Events Manager in preparing a proposal to host and organize Wikimania
20
20
, please contact eyoung at wikimedia.org
<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l> by October
15th.  Also, if you
know of an individual or group that we should approach about hosting, we
encourage  nominations as well. The Steering Committee and WMF expect to
make a decision by early
2019.


Thanks, Ellie
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Joseph Seddon-4
Hello Ellie,

Is Wikimania still on its programme of "1 EU/US Wikimania" followed by an
"Away Wikimania"?

Seddon

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:44 PM Ellie Young <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The Wikimania Steering Committee and Wikimedia Foundation are seeking
> expressions of interest from interested parties for
>  hosting
> Wikimani
> a 2020.
>
> Please see the following for more information:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2020
>
> If you are interested in discussing the possibilities and working with the
> WMF Events Manager in preparing a proposal to host and organize Wikimania
> 20
> 20
> , please contact eyoung at wikimedia.org
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l> by October
> 15th.  Also, if you
> know of an individual or group that we should approach about hosting, we
> encourage  nominations as well. The Steering Committee and WMF expect to
> make a decision by early
> 2019.
>
>
> Thanks, Ellie
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Ellie Young
No.   We are looking more at rotating regions if we can, and excellent
proposals/teams.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 3:31 AM Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello Ellie,
>
> Is Wikimania still on its programme of "1 EU/US Wikimania" followed by an
> "Away Wikimania"?
>
> Seddon
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:44 PM Ellie Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > The Wikimania Steering Committee and Wikimedia Foundation are seeking
> > expressions of interest from interested parties for
> >  hosting
> > Wikimani
> > a 2020.
> >
> > Please see the following for more information:
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2020
> >
> > If you are interested in discussing the possibilities and working with
> the
> > WMF Events Manager in preparing a proposal to host and organize Wikimania
> > 20
> > 20
> > , please contact eyoung at wikimedia.org
> > <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l> by October
> > 15th.  Also, if you
> > know of an individual or group that we should approach about hosting, we
> > encourage  nominations as well. The Steering Committee and WMF expect to
> > make a decision by early
> > 2019.
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Ellie
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

--
Ellie Young
Events Manager
Wikimedia Foundation
[hidden email]
c. 510 701 8649
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Philip Kopetzky
Hi Ellie,

is there an official statement by the WMF that explains why Wikimania 2020
is happening and that the funding for this event is secured? Wikimania does
cost quite a lot of money and I was under the impression that it was
unclear as to if, how and why Wikimania should take place 2020. But maybe
I'm also mistaken on that point.

Best,
Philip

On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 at 18:53, Ellie Young <[hidden email]> wrote:

> No.   We are looking more at rotating regions if we can, and excellent
> proposals/teams.
>
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 3:31 AM Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Ellie,
> >
> > Is Wikimania still on its programme of "1 EU/US Wikimania" followed by an
> > "Away Wikimania"?
> >
> > Seddon
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:44 PM Ellie Young <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > The Wikimania Steering Committee and Wikimedia Foundation are seeking
> > > expressions of interest from interested parties for
> > >  hosting
> > > Wikimani
> > > a 2020.
> > >
> > > Please see the following for more information:
> > >
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2020
> > >
> > > If you are interested in discussing the possibilities and working with
> > the
> > > WMF Events Manager in preparing a proposal to host and organize
> Wikimania
> > > 20
> > > 20
> > > , please contact eyoung at wikimedia.org
> > > <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l> by October
> > > 15th.  Also, if you
> > > know of an individual or group that we should approach about hosting,
> we
> > > encourage  nominations as well. The Steering Committee and WMF expect
> to
> > > make a decision by early
> > > 2019.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks, Ellie
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> --
> Ellie Young
> Events Manager
> Wikimedia Foundation
> [hidden email]
> c. 510 701 8649
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Andrew Lih
Full disclosure: I’m a member of the Wikimania Committee but I am not
speaking on behalf of that body in this mail.

The current custom is that Wikimania happens every year and that while the
selection is made by the Wikimania Committee, the WMF has final approval
over the selection and the operational parameters around its execution.

There was a consultation and discussion in 2015 about the future of
Wikimania, and subsequent followup with in-person discussions at Wikimania
2016, Esino Lario, where there was overwhelming support for continuing the
yearly model.

You can read more about the consultation and followups in these links.
Thanks.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania
https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions/The_future_of_Wikimania
https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Wikimania2016-discussion7b

-Andrew


On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 11:07 AM Philip Kopetzky <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Ellie,
>
> is there an official statement by the WMF that explains why Wikimania 2020
> is happening and that the funding for this event is secured? Wikimania does
> cost quite a lot of money and I was under the impression that it was
> unclear as to if, how and why Wikimania should take place 2020. But maybe
> I'm also mistaken on that point.
>
> Best,
> Philip
>
> On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 at 18:53, Ellie Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > No.   We are looking more at rotating regions if we can, and excellent
> > proposals/teams.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 3:31 AM Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Ellie,
> > >
> > > Is Wikimania still on its programme of "1 EU/US Wikimania" followed by
> an
> > > "Away Wikimania"?
> > >
> > > Seddon
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:44 PM Ellie Young <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Wikimania Steering Committee and Wikimedia Foundation are seeking
> > > > expressions of interest from interested parties for
> > > >  hosting
> > > > Wikimani
> > > > a 2020.
> > > >
> > > > Please see the following for more information:
> > > >
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2020
> > > >
> > > > If you are interested in discussing the possibilities and working
> with
> > > the
> > > > WMF Events Manager in preparing a proposal to host and organize
> > Wikimania
> > > > 20
> > > > 20
> > > > , please contact eyoung at wikimedia.org
> > > > <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l> by
> October
> > > > 15th.  Also, if you
> > > > know of an individual or group that we should approach about hosting,
> > we
> > > > encourage  nominations as well. The Steering Committee and WMF expect
> > to
> > > > make a decision by early
> > > > 2019.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Ellie
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > --
> > Ellie Young
> > Events Manager
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > [hidden email]
> > c. 510 701 8649
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
-Andrew Lih
Author of The Wikipedia Revolution
US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016)
Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015)
Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM
Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
University, Columbia University, USC
---
Email: [hidden email]
WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Chris Keating-2
So it seems that the main rationale for an annual Wikimania brought up in
the 2016 meeting was that Wikimania was vital for movement governance and
accountability. Which wasn't particularly stressed in the WMF's
consultation, but I can see why that kind of issue was very fresh in
peoples' minds in 2016.

Now the Wikimedia Conference / Summit looks set to assume this role, what
is the continued rationale for having Wikimania every year?

Chris

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 16:29 Andrew Lih, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Full disclosure: I’m a member of the Wikimania Committee but I am not
> speaking on behalf of that body in this mail.
>
> The current custom is that Wikimania happens every year and that while the
> selection is made by the Wikimania Committee, the WMF has final approval
> over the selection and the operational parameters around its execution.
>
> There was a consultation and discussion in 2015 about the future of
> Wikimania, and subsequent followup with in-person discussions at Wikimania
> 2016, Esino Lario, where there was overwhelming support for continuing the
> yearly model.
>
> You can read more about the consultation and followups in these links.
> Thanks.
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania
>
> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions/The_future_of_Wikimania
> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Wikimania2016-discussion7b
>
> -Andrew
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 11:07 AM Philip Kopetzky <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ellie,
> >
> > is there an official statement by the WMF that explains why Wikimania
> 2020
> > is happening and that the funding for this event is secured? Wikimania
> does
> > cost quite a lot of money and I was under the impression that it was
> > unclear as to if, how and why Wikimania should take place 2020. But maybe
> > I'm also mistaken on that point.
> >
> > Best,
> > Philip
> >
> > On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 at 18:53, Ellie Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > No.   We are looking more at rotating regions if we can, and excellent
> > > proposals/teams.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 3:31 AM Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Ellie,
> > > >
> > > > Is Wikimania still on its programme of "1 EU/US Wikimania" followed
> by
> > an
> > > > "Away Wikimania"?
> > > >
> > > > Seddon
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:44 PM Ellie Young <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The Wikimania Steering Committee and Wikimedia Foundation are
> seeking
> > > > > expressions of interest from interested parties for
> > > > >  hosting
> > > > > Wikimani
> > > > > a 2020.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please see the following for more information:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2020
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are interested in discussing the possibilities and working
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > WMF Events Manager in preparing a proposal to host and organize
> > > Wikimania
> > > > > 20
> > > > > 20
> > > > > , please contact eyoung at wikimedia.org
> > > > > <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l> by
> > October
> > > > > 15th.  Also, if you
> > > > > know of an individual or group that we should approach about
> hosting,
> > > we
> > > > > encourage  nominations as well. The Steering Committee and WMF
> expect
> > > to
> > > > > make a decision by early
> > > > > 2019.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks, Ellie
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ellie Young
> > > Events Manager
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > [hidden email]
> > > c. 510 701 8649
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> -Andrew Lih
> Author of The Wikipedia Revolution
> US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016)
> Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015)
> Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM
> Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
> University, Columbia University, USC
> ---
> Email: [hidden email]
> WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
> PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

jmh649
The Wikimedia Conference is "closed" in that only those who are invited are
allowed to attend. Wikimania is an open conference meaning basically anyone
can attend, including those currently outside the movement. I view a global
conference as critical to our long term success. Well most of what we
achieve, we can do so without face to face meetings, many important
projects and collaborations have grown out of Wikimania. For me these have
included CopyPatrol, our collaboration with the World Health Organization,
Wikivoyage, and Internet-in-a-Box. I am sure others have similar stories.

James

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 12:40 AM Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> So it seems that the main rationale for an annual Wikimania brought up in
> the 2016 meeting was that Wikimania was vital for movement governance and
> accountability. Which wasn't particularly stressed in the WMF's
> consultation, but I can see why that kind of issue was very fresh in
> peoples' minds in 2016.
>
> Now the Wikimedia Conference / Summit looks set to assume this role, what
> is the continued rationale for having Wikimania every year?
>
> Chris
>
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 16:29 Andrew Lih, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Full disclosure: I’m a member of the Wikimania Committee but I am not
> > speaking on behalf of that body in this mail.
> >
> > The current custom is that Wikimania happens every year and that while
> the
> > selection is made by the Wikimania Committee, the WMF has final approval
> > over the selection and the operational parameters around its execution.
> >
> > There was a consultation and discussion in 2015 about the future of
> > Wikimania, and subsequent followup with in-person discussions at
> Wikimania
> > 2016, Esino Lario, where there was overwhelming support for continuing
> the
> > yearly model.
> >
> > You can read more about the consultation and followups in these links.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania
> >
> >
> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions/The_future_of_Wikimania
> > https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Wikimania2016-discussion7b
> >
> > -Andrew
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 11:07 AM Philip Kopetzky <
> > [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Ellie,
> > >
> > > is there an official statement by the WMF that explains why Wikimania
> > 2020
> > > is happening and that the funding for this event is secured? Wikimania
> > does
> > > cost quite a lot of money and I was under the impression that it was
> > > unclear as to if, how and why Wikimania should take place 2020. But
> maybe
> > > I'm also mistaken on that point.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Philip
> > >
> > > On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 at 18:53, Ellie Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > No.   We are looking more at rotating regions if we can, and
> excellent
> > > > proposals/teams.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 3:31 AM Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Ellie,
> > > > >
> > > > > Is Wikimania still on its programme of "1 EU/US Wikimania" followed
> > by
> > > an
> > > > > "Away Wikimania"?
> > > > >
> > > > > Seddon
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:44 PM Ellie Young <[hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The Wikimania Steering Committee and Wikimedia Foundation are
> > seeking
> > > > > > expressions of interest from interested parties for
> > > > > >  hosting
> > > > > > Wikimani
> > > > > > a 2020.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please see the following for more information:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2020
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you are interested in discussing the possibilities and working
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > WMF Events Manager in preparing a proposal to host and organize
> > > > Wikimania
> > > > > > 20
> > > > > > 20
> > > > > > , please contact eyoung at wikimedia.org
> > > > > > <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l> by
> > > October
> > > > > > 15th.  Also, if you
> > > > > > know of an individual or group that we should approach about
> > hosting,
> > > > we
> > > > > > encourage  nominations as well. The Steering Committee and WMF
> > expect
> > > > to
> > > > > > make a decision by early
> > > > > > 2019.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks, Ellie
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Ellie Young
> > > > Events Manager
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > c. 510 701 8649
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -Andrew Lih
> > Author of The Wikipedia Revolution
> > US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016)
> > Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015)
> > Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM
> > Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
> > University, Columbia University, USC
> > ---
> > Email: [hidden email]
> > WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
> > PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Andrew Lih
In reply to this post by Chris Keating-2
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 3:40 AM Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> So it seems that the main rationale for an annual Wikimania brought up in
> the 2016 meeting was that Wikimania was vital for movement governance and
> accountability. Which wasn't particularly stressed in the WMF's
> consultation, but I can see why that kind of issue was very fresh in
> peoples' minds in 2016.
>

As the facilitator of the 2016 session discussing Wikimania, I don't recall
the "main rationale" of the discussion being about "governance and
accountability" and instead remember many more issues that stood out.

For example, the prominent phrases from the first part of the meeting
include the following, with most of the notes echoing these themes:
- inspiring, and connecting
- opportunity for different communities to meet
- important to use opportunity to do outreach
- empower important volunteers

> Now the Wikimedia Conference / Summit looks set to assume this role, what
> is the continued rationale for having Wikimania every year?

Given the above, I think the basis of the question is not sufficiently
established.

In fact, two recent reports or decisions reinforce Wikimania's role even
more:

1. From the Community Engagement Insights 2018 Report - "Discovery of new
projects and ideas is best at Wikimania: While all conferences had a high
proportion of participants that reported discovering new projects or ideas
as the most important outcome, Wikimania had the highest proportion of them
all." - The Community Engagement Insights 2018 Report [1] [2]

2. The Wikimedia Conference (WMCON) has pivoted to become the Wikimedia
Summit. In the process, they announced "learning and capacity-building will
not be part of the program." [2] Therefore I'd argue that the onus is even
*more* on conferences like Wikimania to facilitate this.

-Andrew

 [1] -
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Engagement_Insights/2018_Report#Community_Resources_team:_Local_and_regional_events_show_more_learning_and_building_skills_as_major_outcomes_than_larger_global_conferences,_while_Wikimania_excels_in_discovery_of_the_new

[2] -
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-September/091062.html
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Andrew Lih
In reply to this post by jmh649
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 12:46 PM James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The Wikimedia Conference is "closed" in that only those who are invited are
> allowed to attend. Wikimania is an open conference meaning basically anyone
> can attend, including those currently outside the movement.


This is a great point – in fact, not only has the mission of the Wikimedia
Summit narrowed, the number of invite-only participants has shrunk as well
to a basic allocation of one individual per affiliate, with the aim of
having a maximum of 200 participants.

While I can understand the rationale of Cornelius Kibelka and the
WMCON/WMSUMMIT team for this decision, and can endorse its direction, the
fact remains that Wikimania being open to all and uncapped is a unique
cornerstone for sustaining the community.

-Andrew
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Chris Keating-2
In reply to this post by Andrew Lih
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 1:10 PM Andrew Lih <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 3:40 AM Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > So it seems that the main rationale for an annual Wikimania brought up in
> > the 2016 meeting was that Wikimania was vital for movement governance and
> > accountability. Which wasn't particularly stressed in the WMF's
> > consultation, but I can see why that kind of issue was very fresh in
> > peoples' minds in 2016.
> >
>
> As the facilitator of the 2016 session discussing Wikimania, I don't recall
> the "main rationale" of the discussion being about "governance and
> accountability" and instead remember many more issues that stood out.
>
> For example, the prominent phrases from the first part of the meeting
> include the following, with most of the notes echoing these themes:
> - inspiring, and connecting
> - opportunity for different communities to meet
> - important to use opportunity to do outreach
> - empower important volunteers

Sorry, don't think I expressed myself particularly well. Yes, those
themes appear to have been present in the meeting, but they were also
very much present in the WMF's consultation, which concluded that they
could probably be fulfilled just as well by moving to a
one-year-in-two rotation between Wikimanias and other regional
gatherings.


> > Now the Wikimedia Conference / Summit looks set to assume this role, what
> > is the continued rationale for having Wikimania every year?
>
> Given the above, I think the basis of the question is not sufficiently
> established.
>
> In fact, two recent reports or decisions reinforce Wikimania's role even
> more:
>
> 1. From the Community Engagement Insights 2018 Report - "Discovery of new
> projects and ideas is best at Wikimania: While all conferences had a high
> proportion of participants that reported discovering new projects or ideas
> as the most important outcome, Wikimania had the highest proportion of them
> all." - The Community Engagement Insights 2018 Report [1] [2]
>
> 2. The Wikimedia Conference (WMCON) has pivoted to become the Wikimedia
> Summit. In the process, they announced "learning and capacity-building will
> not be part of the program." [2] Therefore I'd argue that the onus is even
> *more* on conferences like Wikimania to facilitate this.
>
> -Andrew
>
>  [1] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Engagement_Insights/2018_Report#Community_Resources_team:_Local_and_regional_events_show_more_learning_and_building_skills_as_major_outcomes_than_larger_global_conferences,_while_Wikimania_excels_in_discovery_of_the_new
>
> [2] -
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-September/091062.html
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Chris Keating-2
In reply to this post by Andrew Lih
> > So it seems that the main rationale for an annual Wikimania brought up in
> > the 2016 meeting was that Wikimania was vital for movement governance and
> > accountability. Which wasn't particularly stressed in the WMF's
> > consultation, but I can see why that kind of issue was very fresh in
> > peoples' minds in 2016.
> >
>
> As the facilitator of the 2016 session discussing Wikimania, I don't recall
> the "main rationale" of the discussion being about "governance and
> accountability" and instead remember many more issues that stood out.
>
> For example, the prominent phrases from the first part of the meeting
> include the following, with most of the notes echoing these themes:
> - inspiring, and connecting
> - opportunity for different communities to meet
> - important to use opportunity to do outreach
> - empower important volunteers

Sorry, previous email sent half-finished.

Sorry, don't think I expressed myself particularly well. Yes, those
themes appear to have been present in the meeting, but they were also
very much present in the WMF's consultation, which concluded that they
could probably be fulfilled just as well by moving to a
one-year-in-two rotation between Wikimanias and other regional
gatherings.

The thing that was present in the in-person meeting, but not from the
consultation exercise, was the statement from all the chapter chairs
saying that Wikimania was vital for movement governance and
accountability.

Then of course there was a lot of enthusiasm about the idea of
continuing Wikimania from people attending Wikimania who have attended
many previous Wikimanias. Putting a load of people present at an event
in a room and saying "should this event continue to happen?" is not
great for rigorous decision-making.

(BTW, I'm not saying I favour the other option - the regional
conferences seem to be happening anyway)

> 2. The Wikimedia Conference (WMCON) has pivoted to become the Wikimedia
> Summit. In the process, they announced "learning and capacity-building will
> not be part of the program." [2] Therefore I'd argue that the onus is even
> *more* on conferences like Wikimania to facilitate this.

That would be good! But it kind of returns to the point that
Wikimania's purpose is still fairly ill-defined. Personally I would
really welcome Wikimania becoming explicitly focused on learning and
capacity-building, because currently its focus changes every year and
often when a focus is articulated it's not necessarily followed
through.

Chris

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Effe iets anders
Perhaps stating the obvious, but please remember there were some
significant flaws with the consultation by the WMF that you refer to
(especially with regards to the way questions were phrased and options were
limited beforehand, if I recall correctly).

Wikimania's purpose is mostly pluriform and suits different needs for
different people. That makes it particularly hard to evaluate - I grant you
that. But given the diverse directions that we're trying to bring together,
ranging from individuals to highly professionalized 100+ employee
organizations, this is to be expected. To reduce costs, we have squashed
more and more activities into this one annual event. That further
reinforces the pluriform nature of the event(s). At this point it's hard to
see Wikimania as an event, and it has more become like a piece of
infrastructure that is being used by many events - including the main
conference, but also tons of meetups, preconferences, committee meetings,
strategy processes, consultations and side conferences.

Lodewijk

On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 5:36 AM Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> > > So it seems that the main rationale for an annual Wikimania brought up
> in
> > > the 2016 meeting was that Wikimania was vital for movement governance
> and
> > > accountability. Which wasn't particularly stressed in the WMF's
> > > consultation, but I can see why that kind of issue was very fresh in
> > > peoples' minds in 2016.
> > >
> >
> > As the facilitator of the 2016 session discussing Wikimania, I don't
> recall
> > the "main rationale" of the discussion being about "governance and
> > accountability" and instead remember many more issues that stood out.
> >
> > For example, the prominent phrases from the first part of the meeting
> > include the following, with most of the notes echoing these themes:
> > - inspiring, and connecting
> > - opportunity for different communities to meet
> > - important to use opportunity to do outreach
> > - empower important volunteers
>
> Sorry, previous email sent half-finished.
>
> Sorry, don't think I expressed myself particularly well. Yes, those
> themes appear to have been present in the meeting, but they were also
> very much present in the WMF's consultation, which concluded that they
> could probably be fulfilled just as well by moving to a
> one-year-in-two rotation between Wikimanias and other regional
> gatherings.
>
> The thing that was present in the in-person meeting, but not from the
> consultation exercise, was the statement from all the chapter chairs
> saying that Wikimania was vital for movement governance and
> accountability.
>
> Then of course there was a lot of enthusiasm about the idea of
> continuing Wikimania from people attending Wikimania who have attended
> many previous Wikimanias. Putting a load of people present at an event
> in a room and saying "should this event continue to happen?" is not
> great for rigorous decision-making.
>
> (BTW, I'm not saying I favour the other option - the regional
> conferences seem to be happening anyway)
>
> > 2. The Wikimedia Conference (WMCON) has pivoted to become the Wikimedia
> > Summit. In the process, they announced "learning and capacity-building
> will
> > not be part of the program." [2] Therefore I'd argue that the onus is
> even
> > *more* on conferences like Wikimania to facilitate this.
>
> That would be good! But it kind of returns to the point that
> Wikimania's purpose is still fairly ill-defined. Personally I would
> really welcome Wikimania becoming explicitly focused on learning and
> capacity-building, because currently its focus changes every year and
> often when a focus is articulated it's not necessarily followed
> through.
>
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Chris Keating-2
Hi Lodewijk,

If Wikimania was an entity rather than an event, it would be in the
top 5 entities in the movement - a smaller budget than WMF, Wikimedia
Deutschland and the Wiki Education Foundation but larger than anything
else...

And yet it doesn't have any objectives (or at least, not consistent
ones), the governance of it is that there's one staff member, a
committee with an ill-defined role that you can only get appointed to
by organising a Wikimania, and the only serious discussion about what
it's for was one online discussion that reached a conclusion that
no-one appears willing to support. And there is very little formal
followup and attempting to build on the results (something WMCON, for
instance, has been very good at).

This isn't to criticise everyone involved in making Wikimania happen,
I know it's a huge amount of effort and responsibility and often not
very well-supported. And I know there *are* innovations aimed at
making the conference more effective (for instance, this year we
finally had poster sessions, which are a great idea for sharing
thoughts and making connections, because you can fit a lot more into
one room and an hour than if you have someone giving an hour-long
presentation...) - but I can't help but feel that there would be more
things like that happening if there was a clearer idea of purpose and
objectives.

In a different thread I'm being quite critical of the direction
WMCON/Wikimedia Summit is taking. But that's only possible because
there *is* a direction, and therefore it's possible to think about
whether it's the right direction or not.

Chris
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 9:55 PM effe iets anders
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Perhaps stating the obvious, but please remember there were some
> significant flaws with the consultation by the WMF that you refer to
> (especially with regards to the way questions were phrased and options were
> limited beforehand, if I recall correctly).
>
> Wikimania's purpose is mostly pluriform and suits different needs for
> different people. That makes it particularly hard to evaluate - I grant you
> that. But given the diverse directions that we're trying to bring together,
> ranging from individuals to highly professionalized 100+ employee
> organizations, this is to be expected. To reduce costs, we have squashed
> more and more activities into this one annual event. That further
> reinforces the pluriform nature of the event(s). At this point it's hard to
> see Wikimania as an event, and it has more become like a piece of
> infrastructure that is being used by many events - including the main
> conference, but also tons of meetups, preconferences, committee meetings,
> strategy processes, consultations and side conferences.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 5:36 AM Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > > > So it seems that the main rationale for an annual Wikimania brought up
> > in
> > > > the 2016 meeting was that Wikimania was vital for movement governance
> > and
> > > > accountability. Which wasn't particularly stressed in the WMF's
> > > > consultation, but I can see why that kind of issue was very fresh in
> > > > peoples' minds in 2016.
> > > >
> > >
> > > As the facilitator of the 2016 session discussing Wikimania, I don't
> > recall
> > > the "main rationale" of the discussion being about "governance and
> > > accountability" and instead remember many more issues that stood out.
> > >
> > > For example, the prominent phrases from the first part of the meeting
> > > include the following, with most of the notes echoing these themes:
> > > - inspiring, and connecting
> > > - opportunity for different communities to meet
> > > - important to use opportunity to do outreach
> > > - empower important volunteers
> >
> > Sorry, previous email sent half-finished.
> >
> > Sorry, don't think I expressed myself particularly well. Yes, those
> > themes appear to have been present in the meeting, but they were also
> > very much present in the WMF's consultation, which concluded that they
> > could probably be fulfilled just as well by moving to a
> > one-year-in-two rotation between Wikimanias and other regional
> > gatherings.
> >
> > The thing that was present in the in-person meeting, but not from the
> > consultation exercise, was the statement from all the chapter chairs
> > saying that Wikimania was vital for movement governance and
> > accountability.
> >
> > Then of course there was a lot of enthusiasm about the idea of
> > continuing Wikimania from people attending Wikimania who have attended
> > many previous Wikimanias. Putting a load of people present at an event
> > in a room and saying "should this event continue to happen?" is not
> > great for rigorous decision-making.
> >
> > (BTW, I'm not saying I favour the other option - the regional
> > conferences seem to be happening anyway)
> >
> > > 2. The Wikimedia Conference (WMCON) has pivoted to become the Wikimedia
> > > Summit. In the process, they announced "learning and capacity-building
> > will
> > > not be part of the program." [2] Therefore I'd argue that the onus is
> > even
> > > *more* on conferences like Wikimania to facilitate this.
> >
> > That would be good! But it kind of returns to the point that
> > Wikimania's purpose is still fairly ill-defined. Personally I would
> > really welcome Wikimania becoming explicitly focused on learning and
> > capacity-building, because currently its focus changes every year and
> > often when a focus is articulated it's not necessarily followed
> > through.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Andrew Lih
On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 4:31 AM Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Lodewijk,
>
> If Wikimania was an entity rather than an event, it would be in the
> top 5 entities in the movement - a smaller budget than WMF, Wikimedia
> Deutschland and the Wiki Education Foundation but larger than anything
> else...
>

Chris, you seem to have a particular angle determined through fitting
particular data to your conclusion. A point by point breakdown will be
mired down in bickering, so let me address some misconceptions while also
embracing and agreeing with some of your feedback.

Since I've been to every single Wikimania and serve on the steering
committee, obviously I don't share your existential doubt about Wikimania's
role in our movement. But read on for things I do agree with you on
regarding the future of the conference. Again: I'm not speaking on behalf
of the commitee. This is just me.

- "If Wikimania was an entity rather than an event" - But it's not. The
goals, format and audience is completely different and makes for a
problematic financial comparison. But even if you get past that, I would
argue that annual Wikimania is indeed one of the "top 5" occurrences in our
community each year, even if it's not universally accessible to all
volunteers. It's where ideas and experiences are exchanged and the only
systematic way WMF openly interacts with the community in a face to face
format. Recall - WMCON/Wikimedia Summit is casting off the "learning and
capacity-building" and will be capped at 200 participants. This makes
Wikimania even more crucial in this role.

Important initiatives of our movement started at Wikimania. You state in
your user page you took part in one of the first GLAM engagement with the
British Museum in 2010 with the Hoxne Challenge. Did you know that the GLAM
movement had its genesis with Wikimania 2008 in Alexandria, Egypt, when
Liam Wyatt and the Wikimania organizers had the first "backstage pass" and
meeting with their staff? [1] [2]

- "it doesn't have any objectives" - But it does if you read the Wikimania
page, even if it is not down to the level of detail of an academic
conference or a board retreat. Wikimania is intentionally wiki-like in this
aspect, which may be what is perceived as a lack of objective. By design,
the ability of each team to run with a new concept is part of dynamic. One
of Wikipedia's pillars is "we're here to build an encyclopedia," and people
fill it with meaning. Similarly, the goal of Wikimania as "an annual
gathering of the Wikimedia community" is filled differently with meaning
from year to year with a BE BOLD ethos with different visions and
parameters of the organizing team. Some years there is an experimental idea
like 2016 Esino Lario.[3] Sometimes there is a button-downed public sector
co-conference like 2012 Tech@State. [4]

- "online discussion that reached a conclusion that no-one appears willing
to support" - As Lodewijk mentioned previously, there were significant
issues with the way the consultation was run so that the conclusion was
dubious. If you asked me to find the least desirable time period to do a
consultation, it would be exactly the one chosen – "15 December 2015 to 19
January 2016" when globally, most folks in the professional world and
academia are disengaged or removed from a computer screen. Additionally, it
is hard to produce useful dialogue around strict voting for three rigid
options. [5] Chris Schilling of the Foundation who oversaw the process was
clear in Esino Lario's meeting that the consultation was not binding as was
but one part of the discussion.

- Here's what I agree with you on:

-- Better reporting on results and evaluation of effectiveness - We do have
reporting on the outcomes on meta wiki, including detailed stats and
figures for each conference, as they need to be compared with the original
bid. But the long term analysis is often lacking, with folk knowledge being
more influential in decisions than explicit reporting and strategy. This
year's Wikimania evaluation by Douglas Scott was presented at the September
activities meeting and can be seen on the Youtube video. [6] But we rarely
get a chance to evaluate long term trends or effectiveness.

-- Diversity in the Wikimania Committee - We should go beyond the existing
practice of tapping previous Wikimania leads to be members. I was brought
on as part of that trend, but it should be continued to expand the size and
diversity of backgrounds of the committee. To be fair, it's a rather
thankless job that was cobbled together over the years out of necessity
rather than by design. But we should do better here.

- My overall view - Wikimedia/Wikipedia is a multibillion dollar brand that
is consistently in the top 10 most visited web sites in the world. It
shares that rarified air with companies in the hundreds of billions of
dollars in valuation. Wikipedia is built on the efforts of volunteers, and
it is vitally important we nurture that community or we die. Think about it
– spending in the area of $1 million is a paltry sum compared to the value
to our community and to the world. In fact, I'd argue we are very much
underspending in this area, and way too insular in how we work. We are not
systematically embracing our partners in open culture such as Internet
Archive, Creative Commons, Mozilla Foundation and GLAM institutions, while
they are running broad-based inclusive international conferences with a big
tent. We are consistently seen in the public eye as the hallmark of open
knowledge and the power of volunteerism, yet we do not lead with this
conference nor do we readily open our doors to collaborators.

Thanks for your feedback. I don't want a debate on this issue to be seen as
a silencing tactic. Far from it. It should be a way to sharpen existing
practices and encourage new ideas.

As the Wikimania Committee liaison with the Sweden 2019 team, I've
encouraged them to take on some of the things discussed above, such as
working more closely with like-minded institutions and to not necessarily
repeat all aspects of previous conferences. Discussions like these help
bring these issues to the fore and make the whole process more transparent,
which is a good thing.

-Andrew

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/British_Museum
[2] -
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_2008_-_The_Wikimedia_delegation_(2689602220).jpg
[3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bids/Esino_Lario
[4] - https://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech@State:_Wiki.Gov
[5] -
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania/Outcomes
[6] - https://youtu.be/TTtb4dEypQk?t=3m24s
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Chris Keating-2
Hi Andrew,

I think your conclusions are largely the same as the points I'm trying
to make, so all is good! Don't get me wrong, I do think Wikimania has
an important impact, and don't actually want to stop having it every
year, I'm just curious about the silence that has followed that WMF
consultation.

I do think though that of everything that happens in the movement,
Wikimania is (usually, largely) the thing where there is the least
clarity about goals and the least thinking about impact. There are
grant proposals to the WMF for much less expensive (and indeed, less
*important*) things that have gone into significantly more detail
about expected impact and ways of measuring it than Wikimania ever
has. In this way, Wikimania is usually very much an outlier from the
process of learning and evaluation that the rest of the 'organised
part' of the movement is taking part in. So far as I can tell, there
are some good reasons contributing to this (the desire to keep things
flexible for whoever is volunteering to organise it in the host
country, and the relatively short planning cycle for such a massive
event) as well as some not so good.

I was very pleased to see David talking about the impact of Wikimania
at the metrics meeting, and hear about some interesting ideas about
looking at its impact on South Africa - which is great, and
significantly more than Wikimedia UK managed after Wikimania 2014
(another story there) - and it would be wonderful to see some kind of
reflection about how we can measure the impact of Wikimania on the
global Wikimedia community.

Equally, I can't say that I have a clear understanding of who is
responsible for what regarding Wikimania. The last thing I heard from
the Wikimania Committee was the idea of a three-year rotation between
North America, Europe and Everywhere Else, which now seems to have
been quietly abandoned (like... has it?)

Thank you for engaging in this conversation,

Chris
On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 4:28 PM Andrew Lih <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 4:31 AM Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Lodewijk,
> >
> > If Wikimania was an entity rather than an event, it would be in the
> > top 5 entities in the movement - a smaller budget than WMF, Wikimedia
> > Deutschland and the Wiki Education Foundation but larger than anything
> > else...
> >
>
> Chris, you seem to have a particular angle determined through fitting
> particular data to your conclusion. A point by point breakdown will be
> mired down in bickering, so let me address some misconceptions while also
> embracing and agreeing with some of your feedback.
>
> Since I've been to every single Wikimania and serve on the steering
> committee, obviously I don't share your existential doubt about Wikimania's
> role in our movement. But read on for things I do agree with you on
> regarding the future of the conference. Again: I'm not speaking on behalf
> of the commitee. This is just me.
>
> - "If Wikimania was an entity rather than an event" - But it's not. The
> goals, format and audience is completely different and makes for a
> problematic financial comparison. But even if you get past that, I would
> argue that annual Wikimania is indeed one of the "top 5" occurrences in our
> community each year, even if it's not universally accessible to all
> volunteers. It's where ideas and experiences are exchanged and the only
> systematic way WMF openly interacts with the community in a face to face
> format. Recall - WMCON/Wikimedia Summit is casting off the "learning and
> capacity-building" and will be capped at 200 participants. This makes
> Wikimania even more crucial in this role.
>
> Important initiatives of our movement started at Wikimania. You state in
> your user page you took part in one of the first GLAM engagement with the
> British Museum in 2010 with the Hoxne Challenge. Did you know that the GLAM
> movement had its genesis with Wikimania 2008 in Alexandria, Egypt, when
> Liam Wyatt and the Wikimania organizers had the first "backstage pass" and
> meeting with their staff? [1] [2]
>
> - "it doesn't have any objectives" - But it does if you read the Wikimania
> page, even if it is not down to the level of detail of an academic
> conference or a board retreat. Wikimania is intentionally wiki-like in this
> aspect, which may be what is perceived as a lack of objective. By design,
> the ability of each team to run with a new concept is part of dynamic. One
> of Wikipedia's pillars is "we're here to build an encyclopedia," and people
> fill it with meaning. Similarly, the goal of Wikimania as "an annual
> gathering of the Wikimedia community" is filled differently with meaning
> from year to year with a BE BOLD ethos with different visions and
> parameters of the organizing team. Some years there is an experimental idea
> like 2016 Esino Lario.[3] Sometimes there is a button-downed public sector
> co-conference like 2012 Tech@State. [4]
>
> - "online discussion that reached a conclusion that no-one appears willing
> to support" - As Lodewijk mentioned previously, there were significant
> issues with the way the consultation was run so that the conclusion was
> dubious. If you asked me to find the least desirable time period to do a
> consultation, it would be exactly the one chosen – "15 December 2015 to 19
> January 2016" when globally, most folks in the professional world and
> academia are disengaged or removed from a computer screen. Additionally, it
> is hard to produce useful dialogue around strict voting for three rigid
> options. [5] Chris Schilling of the Foundation who oversaw the process was
> clear in Esino Lario's meeting that the consultation was not binding as was
> but one part of the discussion.
>
> - Here's what I agree with you on:
>
> -- Better reporting on results and evaluation of effectiveness - We do have
> reporting on the outcomes on meta wiki, including detailed stats and
> figures for each conference, as they need to be compared with the original
> bid. But the long term analysis is often lacking, with folk knowledge being
> more influential in decisions than explicit reporting and strategy. This
> year's Wikimania evaluation by Douglas Scott was presented at the September
> activities meeting and can be seen on the Youtube video. [6] But we rarely
> get a chance to evaluate long term trends or effectiveness.
>
> -- Diversity in the Wikimania Committee - We should go beyond the existing
> practice of tapping previous Wikimania leads to be members. I was brought
> on as part of that trend, but it should be continued to expand the size and
> diversity of backgrounds of the committee. To be fair, it's a rather
> thankless job that was cobbled together over the years out of necessity
> rather than by design. But we should do better here.
>
> - My overall view - Wikimedia/Wikipedia is a multibillion dollar brand that
> is consistently in the top 10 most visited web sites in the world. It
> shares that rarified air with companies in the hundreds of billions of
> dollars in valuation. Wikipedia is built on the efforts of volunteers, and
> it is vitally important we nurture that community or we die. Think about it
> – spending in the area of $1 million is a paltry sum compared to the value
> to our community and to the world. In fact, I'd argue we are very much
> underspending in this area, and way too insular in how we work. We are not
> systematically embracing our partners in open culture such as Internet
> Archive, Creative Commons, Mozilla Foundation and GLAM institutions, while
> they are running broad-based inclusive international conferences with a big
> tent. We are consistently seen in the public eye as the hallmark of open
> knowledge and the power of volunteerism, yet we do not lead with this
> conference nor do we readily open our doors to collaborators.
>
> Thanks for your feedback. I don't want a debate on this issue to be seen as
> a silencing tactic. Far from it. It should be a way to sharpen existing
> practices and encourage new ideas.
>
> As the Wikimania Committee liaison with the Sweden 2019 team, I've
> encouraged them to take on some of the things discussed above, such as
> working more closely with like-minded institutions and to not necessarily
> repeat all aspects of previous conferences. Discussions like these help
> bring these issues to the fore and make the whole process more transparent,
> which is a good thing.
>
> -Andrew
>
> [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/British_Museum
> [2] -
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_2008_-_The_Wikimedia_delegation_(2689602220).jpg
> [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bids/Esino_Lario
> [4] - https://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech@State:_Wiki.Gov
> [5] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania/Outcomes
> [6] - https://youtu.be/TTtb4dEypQk?t=3m24s
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Proposals to Host Wikimania in 2020

Ellie Young
Chris,

Just to followup on two points in your last communication:

We are doing a post-conference feedback survey and report this year with
the Learning & Eval
people here so that we can measure impact and also have more data year to
year going forward.
Stay tuned for that later this year.

The Steering committee has also expressed preference for moving the
conference around as
you indicated below but it isn't a hard and fast 'rule'.   For 2020 there
is a preference stated in
the call for proposals to get proposals from Asia/Pacific.   Of course the
final recommendation will be based on
the strongest proposal per the criteria.  The committee is advisory and
makes a recommendation to
the WMF, who is responsible then for further vetting and funding.    We
will be revamping the
Wikimania Handbook in the future and will try to clarify issues like this a
bit more.

Great discussion/points Andrew and Chris... thanks


Ellie
WMF Event Manager




On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 1:44 PM, Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
> I think your conclusions are largely the same as the points I'm trying
> to make, so all is good! Don't get me wrong, I do think Wikimania has
> an important impact, and don't actually want to stop having it every
> year, I'm just curious about the silence that has followed that WMF
> consultation.
>
> I do think though that of everything that happens in the movement,
> Wikimania is (usually, largely) the thing where there is the least
> clarity about goals and the least thinking about impact. There are
> grant proposals to the WMF for much less expensive (and indeed, less
> *important*) things that have gone into significantly more detail
> about expected impact and ways of measuring it than Wikimania ever
> has. In this way, Wikimania is usually very much an outlier from the
> process of learning and evaluation that the rest of the 'organised
> part' of the movement is taking part in. So far as I can tell, there
> are some good reasons contributing to this (the desire to keep things
> flexible for whoever is volunteering to organise it in the host
> country, and the relatively short planning cycle for such a massive
> event) as well as some not so good.
>
> I was very pleased to see David talking about the impact of Wikimania
> at the metrics meeting, and hear about some interesting ideas about
> looking at its impact on South Africa - which is great, and
> significantly more than Wikimedia UK managed after Wikimania 2014
> (another story there) - and it would be wonderful to see some kind of
> reflection about how we can measure the impact of Wikimania on the
> global Wikimedia community.
>
> Equally, I can't say that I have a clear understanding of who is
> responsible for what regarding Wikimania. The last thing I heard from
> the Wikimania Committee was the idea of a three-year rotation between
> North America, Europe and Everywhere Else, which now seems to have
> been quietly abandoned (like... has it?)
>
> Thank you for engaging in this conversation,
>
> Chris
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 4:28 PM Andrew Lih <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 4:31 AM Chris Keating <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Lodewijk,
> > >
> > > If Wikimania was an entity rather than an event, it would be in the
> > > top 5 entities in the movement - a smaller budget than WMF, Wikimedia
> > > Deutschland and the Wiki Education Foundation but larger than anything
> > > else...
> > >
> >
> > Chris, you seem to have a particular angle determined through fitting
> > particular data to your conclusion. A point by point breakdown will be
> > mired down in bickering, so let me address some misconceptions while also
> > embracing and agreeing with some of your feedback.
> >
> > Since I've been to every single Wikimania and serve on the steering
> > committee, obviously I don't share your existential doubt about
> Wikimania's
> > role in our movement. But read on for things I do agree with you on
> > regarding the future of the conference. Again: I'm not speaking on behalf
> > of the commitee. This is just me.
> >
> > - "If Wikimania was an entity rather than an event" - But it's not. The
> > goals, format and audience is completely different and makes for a
> > problematic financial comparison. But even if you get past that, I would
> > argue that annual Wikimania is indeed one of the "top 5" occurrences in
> our
> > community each year, even if it's not universally accessible to all
> > volunteers. It's where ideas and experiences are exchanged and the only
> > systematic way WMF openly interacts with the community in a face to face
> > format. Recall - WMCON/Wikimedia Summit is casting off the "learning and
> > capacity-building" and will be capped at 200 participants. This makes
> > Wikimania even more crucial in this role.
> >
> > Important initiatives of our movement started at Wikimania. You state in
> > your user page you took part in one of the first GLAM engagement with the
> > British Museum in 2010 with the Hoxne Challenge. Did you know that the
> GLAM
> > movement had its genesis with Wikimania 2008 in Alexandria, Egypt, when
> > Liam Wyatt and the Wikimania organizers had the first "backstage pass"
> and
> > meeting with their staff? [1] [2]
> >
> > - "it doesn't have any objectives" - But it does if you read the
> Wikimania
> > page, even if it is not down to the level of detail of an academic
> > conference or a board retreat. Wikimania is intentionally wiki-like in
> this
> > aspect, which may be what is perceived as a lack of objective. By design,
> > the ability of each team to run with a new concept is part of dynamic.
> One
> > of Wikipedia's pillars is "we're here to build an encyclopedia," and
> people
> > fill it with meaning. Similarly, the goal of Wikimania as "an annual
> > gathering of the Wikimedia community" is filled differently with meaning
> > from year to year with a BE BOLD ethos with different visions and
> > parameters of the organizing team. Some years there is an experimental
> idea
> > like 2016 Esino Lario.[3] Sometimes there is a button-downed public
> sector
> > co-conference like 2012 Tech@State. [4]
> >
> > - "online discussion that reached a conclusion that no-one appears
> willing
> > to support" - As Lodewijk mentioned previously, there were significant
> > issues with the way the consultation was run so that the conclusion was
> > dubious. If you asked me to find the least desirable time period to do a
> > consultation, it would be exactly the one chosen – "15 December 2015 to
> 19
> > January 2016" when globally, most folks in the professional world and
> > academia are disengaged or removed from a computer screen. Additionally,
> it
> > is hard to produce useful dialogue around strict voting for three rigid
> > options. [5] Chris Schilling of the Foundation who oversaw the process
> was
> > clear in Esino Lario's meeting that the consultation was not binding as
> was
> > but one part of the discussion.
> >
> > - Here's what I agree with you on:
> >
> > -- Better reporting on results and evaluation of effectiveness - We do
> have
> > reporting on the outcomes on meta wiki, including detailed stats and
> > figures for each conference, as they need to be compared with the
> original
> > bid. But the long term analysis is often lacking, with folk knowledge
> being
> > more influential in decisions than explicit reporting and strategy. This
> > year's Wikimania evaluation by Douglas Scott was presented at the
> September
> > activities meeting and can be seen on the Youtube video. [6] But we
> rarely
> > get a chance to evaluate long term trends or effectiveness.
> >
> > -- Diversity in the Wikimania Committee - We should go beyond the
> existing
> > practice of tapping previous Wikimania leads to be members. I was brought
> > on as part of that trend, but it should be continued to expand the size
> and
> > diversity of backgrounds of the committee. To be fair, it's a rather
> > thankless job that was cobbled together over the years out of necessity
> > rather than by design. But we should do better here.
> >
> > - My overall view - Wikimedia/Wikipedia is a multibillion dollar brand
> that
> > is consistently in the top 10 most visited web sites in the world. It
> > shares that rarified air with companies in the hundreds of billions of
> > dollars in valuation. Wikipedia is built on the efforts of volunteers,
> and
> > it is vitally important we nurture that community or we die. Think about
> it
> > – spending in the area of $1 million is a paltry sum compared to the
> value
> > to our community and to the world. In fact, I'd argue we are very much
> > underspending in this area, and way too insular in how we work. We are
> not
> > systematically embracing our partners in open culture such as Internet
> > Archive, Creative Commons, Mozilla Foundation and GLAM institutions,
> while
> > they are running broad-based inclusive international conferences with a
> big
> > tent. We are consistently seen in the public eye as the hallmark of open
> > knowledge and the power of volunteerism, yet we do not lead with this
> > conference nor do we readily open our doors to collaborators.
> >
> > Thanks for your feedback. I don't want a debate on this issue to be seen
> as
> > a silencing tactic. Far from it. It should be a way to sharpen existing
> > practices and encourage new ideas.
> >
> > As the Wikimania Committee liaison with the Sweden 2019 team, I've
> > encouraged them to take on some of the things discussed above, such as
> > working more closely with like-minded institutions and to not necessarily
> > repeat all aspects of previous conferences. Discussions like these help
> > bring these issues to the fore and make the whole process more
> transparent,
> > which is a good thing.
> >
> > -Andrew
> >
> > [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/British_Museum
> > [2] -
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_2008_-_The
> _Wikimedia_delegation_(2689602220).jpg
> > [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bids/Esino_Lario
> > [4] - https://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech@State:_Wiki.Gov
> > [5] -
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New
> _Wikimania/Outcomes
> > [6] - https://youtu.be/TTtb4dEypQk?t=3m24s
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>