[Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

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[Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Anthony Cole
Just copying part of Andreas's comment from another thread:

"...can the board now please come to a decision on whether the Knight
Foundation grant letter and grant application documents will be posted on
Meta, and if not, provide an explanation to the community why they cannot
be made public?

"To recap, Jimmy Wales said over two weeks ago on his talk page[1] that in
his opinion the documentation should be posted on Meta, to clear the air
around this issue. However, nothing appears to have happened since then."

[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJimbo_Wales&diff=698861097&oldid=698860874

Anthony Cole
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Andreas Kolbe-2
Thanks, Anthony. As can be seen from the diff, the discussion at the time
went like this:

---o0o---

Given the history, but also the absolute bungling mess and total lack of
professionalism that the board has shown since these events, you will find,
Jimbo, that there is a significant proportion of the people who voted for
James who are unwilling to believe a single word of what the board
continues to try not to say. This comes on top of a long list of disasters
that others have summarized above. As for your claim to be a bigger
champion for transparency, please back it up with the details on the
restricted grant from the Knight foundation immediately. *Talk is cheap,
actions speak volumes.* MLauba (Talk) 18:02, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

What sort of details do you want? I'll have to talk to others to make sure
there are no contractural reasons not to do so, but in my opinion the grant
letter should be published on meta. *The Knight Grant is a red herring
here, so it would be best to clear the air around that completely as soon
as possible*.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:19, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

---o0o---

I have seen Jimmy Wales make statements like this many times, as a sort of
exercise in crowd control. It calms frayed tempers.

It introduces some reasonable-sounding explanation why people can't have
what they demand right now, along with a strongly worded, almost
over-the-top assurance that not only are they right to demand it, but that
Jimmy Wales actually wants the very same thing himself.

And then everybody goes away, and nothing happens.

So, what does it actually mean when Jimmy Wales says something like this to
the community in response to criticism?

Do people think this is good governance, secretly admire the Machiavellian
chutzpah, or what?

Andreas

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 9:53 PM, Anthony Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just copying part of Andreas's comment from another thread:
>
> "...can the board now please come to a decision on whether the Knight
> Foundation grant letter and grant application documents will be posted on
> Meta, and if not, provide an explanation to the community why they cannot
> be made public?
>
> "To recap, Jimmy Wales said over two weeks ago on his talk page[1] that in
> his opinion the documentation should be posted on Meta, to clear the air
> around this issue. However, nothing appears to have happened since then."
>
> [1]
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJimbo_Wales&diff=698861097&oldid=698860874
>
> Anthony Cole
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Fæ
On 28 January 2016 at 16:12, Andreas Kolbe <[hidden email]> wrote:
...
> So, what does it actually mean when Jimmy Wales says something like this to
> the community in response to criticism?
>
> Do people think this is good governance, secretly admire the Machiavellian
> chutzpah, or what?

Jimmy Wales has defended his use of *"Utter fucking bullshit"* when
abusing James Heilman.[1][2] In a hostile environment where "founders
rights" appear to mean that Wales can push his colleagues around like
a childish bully, in a way that anyone else would have their account
blocked from Wikimedia projects, we cannot expect to hold this WMF
trustee to account for their actions as we cannot even properly hold
him to account against the WMF terms of use.

In other charitable organisations, abusing volunteers or employees
with variations of "fuck" and being incapable of recognising that is a
problem, would make you entirely unsuitable to be a trustee. It's a
shame that the WMF board have no higher standards for civility or
leadership than this. It's an all time low.

Links:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=701673700&oldid=701673178
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=701942197&oldid=701941999

Fae
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Comet styles
Since Jimmy is now also on the board for 'The Guardian', maybe its
about time he stepped down from the WMF board? And regarding James, it
honestly no longer matters why he was 'fired', its obvious the board
is filling up its stocks in google employees (lol) and it won't likely
change even after the VoNC on Geshuri and I think we all can expect
more 'ridiculous' hirings  in the future as well..

Regarding the Knight grant application/letter, the question isn't why
the community needs a reason to see the application/letter, the
question is why the community cannot....it again goes back to the old
question..who is serving who?

On 1/29/16, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 28 January 2016 at 16:12, Andreas Kolbe <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
>> So, what does it actually mean when Jimmy Wales says something like this
>> to
>> the community in response to criticism?
>>
>> Do people think this is good governance, secretly admire the Machiavellian
>> chutzpah, or what?
>
> Jimmy Wales has defended his use of *"Utter fucking bullshit"* when
> abusing James Heilman.[1][2] In a hostile environment where "founders
> rights" appear to mean that Wales can push his colleagues around like
> a childish bully, in a way that anyone else would have their account
> blocked from Wikimedia projects, we cannot expect to hold this WMF
> trustee to account for their actions as we cannot even properly hold
> him to account against the WMF terms of use.
>
> In other charitable organisations, abusing volunteers or employees
> with variations of "fuck" and being incapable of recognising that is a
> problem, would make you entirely unsuitable to be a trustee. It's a
> shame that the WMF board have no higher standards for civility or
> leadership than this. It's an all time low.
>
> Links:
> 1.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=701673700&oldid=701673178
> 2.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=701942197&oldid=701941999
>
> Fae
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


--
Cometstyles

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

MZMcBride-2
My guess is that the first step here is to identify who would have access
to the Knight Foundation grant application and grant offer paperwork. It's
not immediately clear to me who to even ask about this.

I'm copying Wes Moran and Katherine Maher of the Wikimedia Foundation on
this reply, as he sent the initial wikimedia-l announcement e-mail about
this grant and she is listed as the contact in the press release:
<https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Special:Permalink/104437>.

Wes and Katherine: do you know what steps need to be taken in order to
release the documents surrounding this Knight Foundation grant? Or do you
know who at the Wikimedia Foundation would be the best/most appropriate
contact to figure this out? Geoff and the legal team? One of the
grants-related staff such as Janice? Any help would be appreciated!

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

MZMcBride-2
MZMcBride wrote:
>Wes and Katherine: do you know what steps need to be taken in order to
>release the documents surrounding this Knight Foundation grant? Or do you
>know who at the Wikimedia Foundation would be the best/most appropriate
>contact to figure this out? Geoff and the legal team? One of the
>grants-related staff such as Janice? Any help would be appreciated!

Remembering that similar questions about grant agreements have come
previously, I just dug through my e-mail archives and found a 2011 e-mail
from Lisa Gruwell. In the e-mail, she's very supportive of the idea of
putting grants documents on Meta-Wiki. Copying her as well on this thread
as she's still working with the Wikimedia Foundation, though it's not
clear to me whether her role has shifted to other focuses.

In case anyone is curious, here is Sue's response from October 2011:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2011-October/116339.html

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Pete Forsyth-2
MZMcBride, that is an *excellent* find -- I had forgotten that it was
articulated as a formal policy. I have now updated my blog post on the
topic with a link to that email:
http://wikistrategies.net/grant-transparency/

Perhaps Lisa can tell us whether that policy was ever rescinded?

-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:24 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> MZMcBride wrote:
> >Wes and Katherine: do you know what steps need to be taken in order to
> >release the documents surrounding this Knight Foundation grant? Or do you
> >know who at the Wikimedia Foundation would be the best/most appropriate
> >contact to figure this out? Geoff and the legal team? One of the
> >grants-related staff such as Janice? Any help would be appreciated!
>
> Remembering that similar questions about grant agreements have come
> previously, I just dug through my e-mail archives and found a 2011 e-mail
> from Lisa Gruwell. In the e-mail, she's very supportive of the idea of
> putting grants documents on Meta-Wiki. Copying her as well on this thread
> as she's still working with the Wikimedia Foundation, though it's not
> clear to me whether her role has shifted to other focuses.
>
> In case anyone is curious, here is Sue's response from October 2011:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2011-October/116339.html
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Lila Tretikov
In reply to this post by Anthony Cole
Hi Anthony,

I know this request was for the Board, but I took time to explain as much
as I could about the context of this grant and the work it funds as well as
to answer as many questions as possible that I have seen. I realize many
people a curious about what it actually funds, so you will find the
statement of work cut and pasted there.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)#Knowledge_Engine_grant
<https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUser_talk%3ALilaTretikov_%28WMF%29%23Knowledge_Engine_grant&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHbv_CPFd5d3dh7WKET5YlNSZvHdA>

Hope this answers some of your questions,
Lila



On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Anthony Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just copying part of Andreas's comment from another thread:
>
> "...can the board now please come to a decision on whether the Knight
> Foundation grant letter and grant application documents will be posted on
> Meta, and if not, provide an explanation to the community why they cannot
> be made public?
>
> "To recap, Jimmy Wales said over two weeks ago on his talk page[1] that in
> his opinion the documentation should be posted on Meta, to clear the air
> around this issue. However, nothing appears to have happened since then."
>
> [1]
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJimbo_Wales&diff=698861097&oldid=698860874
>
> Anthony Cole
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>




--
Lila Tretikov
Wikimedia Foundation

*“Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.”*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

SarahSV
Lila, thank you for posting this. I have no technical background, so I only
have a limited understanding of how the Discovery project works. But as an
editor and reader I've been frustrated by the limitations of Wikipedia
search. Even things that I know are there, because I added them myself, are
regularly not returned. Sometimes for reasons I can't fathom; sometimes
because I've mistyped something.

It's the same with Siri on iPhone. I ask it something that I know is on
Wikipedia and it can't seem to find it. Or it will return a link to
articles in which certain terms appear. But people don't want to have to
look at whole articles.

We have this enormous and wonderful amount of knowledge to some extent
trapped inside Wikipedia. How do we unlock it? How do we teach computers
how to find and deliver it? In future, could Wikipedia reply to questions
on people's phones, instead of Siri?

This kind of research sounds very exciting, and the Foundation is
well-placed to do it.

Sarah


On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Lila Tretikov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Anthony,
>
> I know this request was for the Board, but I took time to explain as much
> as I could about the context of this grant and the work it funds as well as
> to answer as many questions as possible that I have seen. I realize many
> people a curious about what it actually funds, so you will find the
> statement of work cut and pasted there.
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)#Knowledge_Engine_grant
> <
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUser_talk%3ALilaTretikov_%28WMF%29%23Knowledge_Engine_grant&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHbv_CPFd5d3dh7WKET5YlNSZvHdA
> >
>
> Hope this answers some of your questions,
> Lila
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Lila Tretikov
Thank you, Sarah for an excellent question.  Sometimes I compare Wikimedia
with an iceberg, only a small portion is visible.

When we started investigating this problem we found out that nearly 30% of
searches on Wikipedia return no results at all. That motivated us to dig
deeper.

Since then we've made our first improvements (by about  1 million  searches
a day) , but we have a very long way to go...especially searching across
sites. Commons for example is a very tough one that we will need to help
one day.

I encourage you to read through,  I tried to explain our thinking the best
I could,  but I can always use help :)

Lila

sent from mobile. please excuse typos.
On Jan 29, 2016 3:50 PM, "SarahSV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Lila, thank you for posting this. I have no technical background, so I only
> have a limited understanding of how the Discovery project works. But as an
> editor and reader I've been frustrated by the limitations of Wikipedia
> search. Even things that I know are there, because I added them myself, are
> regularly not returned. Sometimes for reasons I can't fathom; sometimes
> because I've mistyped something.
>
> It's the same with Siri on iPhone. I ask it something that I know is on
> Wikipedia and it can't seem to find it. Or it will return a link to
> articles in which certain terms appear. But people don't want to have to
> look at whole articles.
>
> We have this enormous and wonderful amount of knowledge to some extent
> trapped inside Wikipedia. How do we unlock it? How do we teach computers
> how to find and deliver it? In future, could Wikipedia reply to questions
> on people's phones, instead of Siri?
>
> This kind of research sounds very exciting, and the Foundation is
> well-placed to do it.
>
> Sarah
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Lila Tretikov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Anthony,
> >
> > I know this request was for the Board, but I took time to explain as much
> > as I could about the context of this grant and the work it funds as well
> as
> > to answer as many questions as possible that I have seen. I realize many
> > people a curious about what it actually funds, so you will find the
> > statement of work cut and pasted there.
> >
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)#Knowledge_Engine_grant
> > <
> >
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUser_talk%3ALilaTretikov_%28WMF%29%23Knowledge_Engine_grant&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHbv_CPFd5d3dh7WKET5YlNSZvHdA
> > >
> >
> > Hope this answers some of your questions,
> > Lila
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Anthony Cole
Thank you Lila. That's very clear, and I think it's a worthwhile project,
exactly in line with our shared vision.

Anthony Cole


On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:05 AM, Lila Tretikov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you, Sarah for an excellent question.  Sometimes I compare Wikimedia
> with an iceberg, only a small portion is visible.
>
> When we started investigating this problem we found out that nearly 30% of
> searches on Wikipedia return no results at all. That motivated us to dig
> deeper.
>
> Since then we've made our first improvements (by about  1 million  searches
> a day) , but we have a very long way to go...especially searching across
> sites. Commons for example is a very tough one that we will need to help
> one day.
>
> I encourage you to read through,  I tried to explain our thinking the best
> I could,  but I can always use help :)
>
> Lila
>
> sent from mobile. please excuse typos.
> On Jan 29, 2016 3:50 PM, "SarahSV" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Lila, thank you for posting this. I have no technical background, so I
> only
> > have a limited understanding of how the Discovery project works. But as
> an
> > editor and reader I've been frustrated by the limitations of Wikipedia
> > search. Even things that I know are there, because I added them myself,
> are
> > regularly not returned. Sometimes for reasons I can't fathom; sometimes
> > because I've mistyped something.
> >
> > It's the same with Siri on iPhone. I ask it something that I know is on
> > Wikipedia and it can't seem to find it. Or it will return a link to
> > articles in which certain terms appear. But people don't want to have to
> > look at whole articles.
> >
> > We have this enormous and wonderful amount of knowledge to some extent
> > trapped inside Wikipedia. How do we unlock it? How do we teach computers
> > how to find and deliver it? In future, could Wikipedia reply to questions
> > on people's phones, instead of Siri?
> >
> > This kind of research sounds very exciting, and the Foundation is
> > well-placed to do it.
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Lila Tretikov <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Anthony,
> > >
> > > I know this request was for the Board, but I took time to explain as
> much
> > > as I could about the context of this grant and the work it funds as
> well
> > as
> > > to answer as many questions as possible that I have seen. I realize
> many
> > > people a curious about what it actually funds, so you will find the
> > > statement of work cut and pasted there.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)#Knowledge_Engine_grant
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUser_talk%3ALilaTretikov_%28WMF%29%23Knowledge_Engine_grant&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHbv_CPFd5d3dh7WKET5YlNSZvHdA
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hope this answers some of your questions,
> > > Lila
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by SarahSV
Hoi
Several WIkipedias extended their search with functionality by Magnus that
provides them info from Wikidata. It is why you find results from any
Wikipedia on the Tamil Wikipedia for one.

There is no reason why we cannot do this everywhere.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On 30 January 2016 at 00:50, SarahSV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Lila, thank you for posting this. I have no technical background, so I only
> have a limited understanding of how the Discovery project works. But as an
> editor and reader I've been frustrated by the limitations of Wikipedia
> search. Even things that I know are there, because I added them myself, are
> regularly not returned. Sometimes for reasons I can't fathom; sometimes
> because I've mistyped something.
>
> It's the same with Siri on iPhone. I ask it something that I know is on
> Wikipedia and it can't seem to find it. Or it will return a link to
> articles in which certain terms appear. But people don't want to have to
> look at whole articles.
>
> We have this enormous and wonderful amount of knowledge to some extent
> trapped inside Wikipedia. How do we unlock it? How do we teach computers
> how to find and deliver it? In future, could Wikipedia reply to questions
> on people's phones, instead of Siri?
>
> This kind of research sounds very exciting, and the Foundation is
> well-placed to do it.
>
> Sarah
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Lila Tretikov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Anthony,
> >
> > I know this request was for the Board, but I took time to explain as much
> > as I could about the context of this grant and the work it funds as well
> as
> > to answer as many questions as possible that I have seen. I realize many
> > people a curious about what it actually funds, so you will find the
> > statement of work cut and pasted there.
> >
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)#Knowledge_Engine_grant
> > <
> >
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUser_talk%3ALilaTretikov_%28WMF%29%23Knowledge_Engine_grant&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHbv_CPFd5d3dh7WKET5YlNSZvHdA
> > >
> >
> > Hope this answers some of your questions,
> > Lila
> >
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Lila Tretikov
Lila Tretikov wrote:
>I know this request was for the Board, but I took time to explain as much
>as I could about the context of this grant and the work it funds as well
>as to answer as many questions as possible that I have seen. I realize
>many people a curious about what it actually funds, so you will find the
>statement of work cut and pasted there.
>
>https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Permalink/15294825

Thank you for this post, Lila. It provides a lot of helpful context and
understanding surrounding the Knight Foundation's recent restricted grant.
One part of this arrangement still confuses me. In the linked post, you
write, "With this grant we brought the idea to the funder and they
supported our work with this grant."

Why ask for and take the money? The Wikimedia Foundation can raise
$250,000 in a few days (maybe hours) by placing ads on a few large
Wikipedias soliciting donations. Why take on a restricted grant, with its
necessary reporting overhead and other administrative costs?

You also write:
---
Why should the community and staff support this decision of our board and
leadership?

I would hope that for staff, the answer to this question is clear.
---

This is very aggressive. I'm not sure this type of attitude is aligned
with an idealistic, non-profit educational organization.

For the general issue, you point out that the Wikimedia Foundation Board
of Trustees is required to approve large (over $100,000) restricted
grants. I think the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees (copied) should
modify its acceptance requirements to mandate that large restricted grants
have their grant agreements and other related paperwork publicly
published. This would not apply retroactively. Publishing the grant
paperwork fits in well well with our transparency principles and values.

For the specific issue, who can be contacted at the Knight Foundation to
ask about publishing the grant paperwork? Presumably the Knight Foundation
and the Wikimedia Foundation, having just partnered, share values. Is the
Knight Foundation okay with the full grant agreement being published?

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Ruslan Takayev
In reply to this post by Lila Tretikov
Hi Lila, et al

I have some one question for you.

I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around how the grant
information you posted lead to WMF BoT voting James Heilman of the board in
a vote of no-confidence.

Something just doesn't add up here.

Any chance you can publish the actual grant application from the WMF to the
Knight Foundation?

I am guessing that the devil will be in those details; details which thus
far the WMF has kept completely under wraps.

I look forward to you releasing the grant application at your earliest
convenience.

Warm regards,

Ruslan Takayev


On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 7:27 AM, Lila Tretikov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Anthony,
>
> I know this request was for the Board, but I took time to explain as much
> as I could about the context of this grant and the work it funds as well as
> to answer as many questions as possible that I have seen. I realize many
> people a curious about what it actually funds, so you will find the
> statement of work cut and pasted there.
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)#Knowledge_Engine_grant
> <
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUser_talk%3ALilaTretikov_%28WMF%29%23Knowledge_Engine_grant&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHbv_CPFd5d3dh7WKET5YlNSZvHdA
> >
>
> Hope this answers some of your questions,
> Lila
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Anthony Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Just copying part of Andreas's comment from another thread:
> >
> > "...can the board now please come to a decision on whether the Knight
> > Foundation grant letter and grant application documents will be posted on
> > Meta, and if not, provide an explanation to the community why they cannot
> > be made public?
> >
> > "To recap, Jimmy Wales said over two weeks ago on his talk page[1] that
> in
> > his opinion the documentation should be posted on Meta, to clear the air
> > around this issue. However, nothing appears to have happened since then."
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJimbo_Wales&diff=698861097&oldid=698860874
> >
> > Anthony Cole
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lila Tretikov
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> *“Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.”*
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Chris Keating-2
>
>
> I have some one question for you.
>
> I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around how the grant
> information you posted lead to WMF BoT voting James Heilman of the board in
> a vote of no-confidence.
>

Ruslan - what makes you think the two issues are connected?

I have heard nothing from the WMF that suggests that they are.

A few other people are trying to draw some link between the two, but the
burden of proof is on them not on Lila....

Regards,

Chris
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Ruslan Takayev
Chris, et al

Ruslan - what makes you think the two issues are connected?
>

James was pushing for greater transparency on the BoT. This is the one
major issue that arose during James on the board that wasn't transparent at
the time.

You can put 2 + 2 together from that.


> I have heard nothing from the WMF that suggests that they are.
>

We've heard sound bytes, but we haven't heard anything of substance from
the BoT on the issue of why James was ushered off the Board.

>
> A few other people are trying to draw some link between the two, but the
> burden of proof is on them not on Lila....
>

Lila could easily shut down these lines of questioning by publishing the
grant application, as was originally requested by others.

Warm regards,

Ruslan Takayev

On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 6:41 AM, Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> >
> >
> > I have some one question for you.
> >
> > I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around how the grant
> > information you posted lead to WMF BoT voting James Heilman of the board
> in
> > a vote of no-confidence.
> >
>
> Ruslan - what makes you think the two issues are connected?
>
> I have heard nothing from the WMF that suggests that they are.
>
> A few other people are trying to draw some link between the two, but the
> burden of proof is on them not on Lila....
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Tim Starling-2
In reply to this post by Chris Keating-2
On 07/02/16 09:41, Chris Keating wrote:

>>
>>
>> I have some one question for you.
>>
>> I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around how the grant
>> information you posted lead to WMF BoT voting James Heilman of the board in
>> a vote of no-confidence.
>>
>
> Ruslan - what makes you think the two issues are connected?
>
> I have heard nothing from the WMF that suggests that they are.
>
> A few other people are trying to draw some link between the two, but the
> burden of proof is on them not on Lila....

Maybe you missed this:

<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/James_Heilman_removal_FAQ#What_happened.3F>

In which James Heilman, by way of explaining why he was removed from
the board, complains of a lack of transparency, links to the
announcement of the Knight Foundation grant, and comments "many
details however are still missing."

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Andreas Kolbe-2
More on this from James Heilman and others in the current Signpost issue.

From the editors: Help wanted
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/From_the_editors

In focus: The Knight Foundation grant: a timeline and an email to the board
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/In_focus

Op-ed: So, what’s a knowledge engine anyway?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/Op-ed

Special report: Board chair and new trustee speak with the ''Signpost''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/Special_report

Traffic report: Bowled
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/Traffic_report

News and notes: Harassment survey 2015; Luis Villa to leave WMF; knowledge
engine background
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/News_and_notes

Featured content: This week's featured content
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/Featured_content

Arbitration report: Catching up on arbitration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/Arbitration_report


Single page view
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single/2016-02-03

PDF version
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03


https://www.facebook.com/wikisignpost / https://twitter.com/wikisignpost
--
Wikipedia Signpost Staff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost

Andreas

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 6:17 AM, Tim Starling <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 07/02/16 09:41, Chris Keating wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I have some one question for you.
> >>
> >> I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around how the grant
> >> information you posted lead to WMF BoT voting James Heilman of the
> board in
> >> a vote of no-confidence.
> >>
> >
> > Ruslan - what makes you think the two issues are connected?
> >
> > I have heard nothing from the WMF that suggests that they are.
> >
> > A few other people are trying to draw some link between the two, but the
> > burden of proof is on them not on Lila....
>
> Maybe you missed this:
>
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/James_Heilman_removal_FAQ#What_happened.3F
> >
>
> In which James Heilman, by way of explaining why he was removed from
> the board, complains of a lack of transparency, links to the
> announcement of the Knight Foundation grant, and comments "many
> details however are still missing."
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Ruslan Takayev
Andreas, et al

James' now-released email is quite damning in many aspects.

I am very concerned that James was essentially bullied by way of threat
into voting in the affirmative by other members of the BoT. James, would
you care to name those Trustees who did this? Given the recent Harassment
Survey results, it should be clear that there is NO room for harassment on
WMF projects, and those who threatened/bullied you should stand down
immediately.

Lila also has a lot to answer for in not making the BoT aware of what the
Knight Foundation grant was all about beforehand. Lila, any chance you can
explain why?

I can feel a further rift and a vote of no confidence in both the BoT and
WMF management coming on.

Warm regards,

Ruslan Takayev

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Andreas Kolbe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> More on this from James Heilman and others in the current Signpost issue.
>
> From the editors: Help wanted
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/From_the_editors
>
> In focus: The Knight Foundation grant: a timeline and an email to the board
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/In_focus
>
> Op-ed: So, what’s a knowledge engine anyway?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/Op-ed
>
> Special report: Board chair and new trustee speak with the ''Signpost''
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/Special_report
>
> Traffic report: Bowled
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/Traffic_report
>
> News and notes: Harassment survey 2015; Luis Villa to leave WMF; knowledge
> engine background
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/News_and_notes
>
> Featured content: This week's featured content
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/Featured_content
>
> Arbitration report: Catching up on arbitration
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03/Arbitration_report
>
>
> Single page view
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single/2016-02-03
>
> PDF version
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-03
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/wikisignpost / https://twitter.com/wikisignpost
> --
> Wikipedia Signpost Staff
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost
>
> Andreas
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 6:17 AM, Tim Starling <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > On 07/02/16 09:41, Chris Keating wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I have some one question for you.
> > >>
> > >> I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around how the grant
> > >> information you posted lead to WMF BoT voting James Heilman of the
> > board in
> > >> a vote of no-confidence.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Ruslan - what makes you think the two issues are connected?
> > >
> > > I have heard nothing from the WMF that suggests that they are.
> > >
> > > A few other people are trying to draw some link between the two, but
> the
> > > burden of proof is on them not on Lila....
> >
> > Maybe you missed this:
> >
> > <
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/James_Heilman_removal_FAQ#What_happened.3F
> > >
> >
> > In which James Heilman, by way of explaining why he was removed from
> > the board, complains of a lack of transparency, links to the
> > announcement of the Knight Foundation grant, and comments "many
> > details however are still missing."
> >
> > -- Tim Starling
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

Pine W
My impression of this whole situation with the Knight Foundation is that
the WMF's strong tendency toward closed-door and closed-loop processes are
hurting WMF more than helping it. If WMF had been transparent with the
community about this situation in the first place and a consultation with
the community had happened as negotiations were underway with Knight, I am
wondering if a mutually agreeable solution could have been created at that
time. Now we're in the midst of a lot of skepticism, suspicion, and
political difficulties.

Perhaps after the experiences of the past few months WMF governance will
re-align itself with the value of openness.

Hope springs eternal,

Pine
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