[Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

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[Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Zachary McCune
*Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process for
movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or watch for
updates on Meta-Wiki.


Hello all,

After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of affiliates,
several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am pleased
to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand strategy
[1].

From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors and
63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:

   1.

   Reducing confusion
   2.

   Protecting reputation
   3.

   Supporting sister projects
   4.

   Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
   5.

   Supporting movement growth
   6.

   The process of change

Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
examples of comments within each section, along with a rough indication of
how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.

The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our wide
movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a sign of
health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in tension
with each other.

Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for assessing
branding systems.

== Thanks ==

I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions during
their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of this
consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
perspectives and insights.


== Next steps and staying involved ==

There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general appetite
to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely what
branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared these
insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
approved continuing these efforts.

Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use “Wikipedia”
as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN for
affiliates.

This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite you
to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions and
room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not want to
commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments left on
the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.

The development of this proposed identity system will take approximately 6
months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are most
comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to decide
if/when they opt in to using the new system.

Yours,

 Zack

[1]
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/


[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results


[3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the gray
"Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to see
and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space main
page.

[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning


--

Zack McCune (he/him)

Director of Brand

Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Pine W
Hello Zack,

Thank you for the report on Meta.

I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is considerable
support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve our
movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit is that,
according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable opposition to
the rebranding proposal.


Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having "considerable
support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears to be
considerable opposition?


Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays that
measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding the
rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two of the
three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using those
measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition regarding the RfC,
I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as declined.

Pine

( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )



On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process for
> movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or watch for
> updates on Meta-Wiki.
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of affiliates,
> several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am pleased
> to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand strategy
> [1].
>
> From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors and
> 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
>
>    1.
>
>    Reducing confusion
>    2.
>
>    Protecting reputation
>    3.
>
>    Supporting sister projects
>    4.
>
>    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
>    5.
>
>    Supporting movement growth
>    6.
>
>    The process of change
>
> Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
> examples of comments within each section, along with a rough indication of
> how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
>
> The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our wide
> movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a sign of
> health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
> which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in tension
> with each other.
>
> Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
> useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for assessing
> branding systems.
>
> == Thanks ==
>
> I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
> Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions during
> their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
> Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of this
> consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> perspectives and insights.
>
>
> == Next steps and staying involved ==
>
> There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general appetite
> to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely what
> branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared these
> insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
> approved continuing these efforts.
>
> Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
> naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use “Wikipedia”
> as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN for
> affiliates.
>
> This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
> volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite you
> to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
> discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions and
> room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not want to
> commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
> within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments left on
> the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
> updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
> publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
>
> The development of this proposed identity system will take approximately 6
> months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are most
> comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to decide
> if/when they opt in to using the new system.
>
> Yours,
>
>  Zack
>
> [1]
>
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
>
>
> [2]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
>
>
> [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the gray
> "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to see
> and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space main
> page.
>
> [4]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
>
>
> --
>
> Zack McCune (he/him)
>
> Director of Brand
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Diane Ranville
Hi,

I agree with Pine.
There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
proposition.
I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except that it is
difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but it is
sometimes necessary).
Have other options even been considered?

-speaking in my own name here-

Diane

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello Zack,
>
> Thank you for the report on Meta.
>
> I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is considerable
> support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve our
> movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit is that,
> according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable opposition to
> the rebranding proposal.
>
>
> Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having "considerable
> support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears to be
> considerable opposition?
>
>
> Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays that
> measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding the
> rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two of the
> three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using those
> measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition regarding the RfC,
> I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as declined.
>
> Pine
>
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process for
> > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or watch
> for
> > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> >
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of affiliates,
> > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am pleased
> > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> strategy
> > [1].
> >
> > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors and
> > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> >
> >    1.
> >
> >    Reducing confusion
> >    2.
> >
> >    Protecting reputation
> >    3.
> >
> >    Supporting sister projects
> >    4.
> >
> >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> >    5.
> >
> >    Supporting movement growth
> >    6.
> >
> >    The process of change
> >
> > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
> > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough indication
> of
> > how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
> >
> > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our
> wide
> > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a sign of
> > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
> > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> tension
> > with each other.
> >
> > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
> > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for assessing
> > branding systems.
> >
> > == Thanks ==
> >
> > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
> > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions
> during
> > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
> > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of this
> > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> > perspectives and insights.
> >
> >
> > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> >
> > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general appetite
> > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely
> what
> > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared these
> > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
> > approved continuing these efforts.
> >
> > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
> > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> “Wikipedia”
> > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN for
> > affiliates.
> >
> > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
> > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite
> you
> > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
> > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions and
> > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not want
> to
> > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
> > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments left
> on
> > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
> > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
> > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> >
> > The development of this proposed identity system will take approximately
> 6
> > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are most
> > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> decide
> > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> >  Zack
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> >
> >
> > [2]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> >
> >
> > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the gray
> > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to see
> > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space
> main
> > page.
> >
> > [4]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Zack McCune (he/him)
> >
> > Director of Brand
> >
> > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Zachary McCune
Hi Pine -

Thanks for your questions. We set out to measure community appetite for
this change, knowing that it is something we share as our Movement's
identity and therefore something that needs broad support. On Meta-Wiki, we
shared our consultation metrics for assessing that support and/or
opposition [1].

In assessing the positions and comments shared during this 4 month
consultation, we noted that 38% of reviewing affiliates explicitly support
the branding proposal (almost 2x our goal of 20%). We also measured that
just 0.6% (57 people over more than 9,000 reached) of those reached during
the consultation explicitly opposed the proposal, which relates to our
benchmark that if "less than 20% oppose, we will consider the proposal to
have strong support." Hence the language used in our recommendation. We
will add the overall response metrics to Meta to document these outcomes.

Many of the reviewing parties identified things they would need to see
within a new brand system to consider it for approval and adoption. That's
what this next phase of collaboration allows!

yours,

- Zack

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/project_summary#Response_KPIs



Measure community appetite

for change

20% of affiliates support

Less than 20% of informed community oppose

✓ 38% of reviewing affiliates support

✓ 0.6% of informed oppose (57 users oppose of ~9,000 reached)

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 12:19 PM Diane Ranville <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I agree with Pine.
> There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
> proposition.
> I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except that it is
> difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but it is
> sometimes necessary).
> Have other options even been considered?
>
> -speaking in my own name here-
>
> Diane
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hello Zack,
> >
> > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> >
> > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is considerable
> > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve our
> > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit is that,
> > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable opposition to
> > the rebranding proposal.
> >
> >
> > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> "considerable
> > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears to be
> > considerable opposition?
> >
> >
> > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays that
> > measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding the
> > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two of the
> > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using those
> > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition regarding the
> RfC,
> > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as declined.
> >
> > Pine
> >
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process
> for
> > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or watch
> > for
> > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> affiliates,
> > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> pleased
> > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> > strategy
> > > [1].
> > >
> > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors
> and
> > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > >
> > >    1.
> > >
> > >    Reducing confusion
> > >    2.
> > >
> > >    Protecting reputation
> > >    3.
> > >
> > >    Supporting sister projects
> > >    4.
> > >
> > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > >    5.
> > >
> > >    Supporting movement growth
> > >    6.
> > >
> > >    The process of change
> > >
> > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
> > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough indication
> > of
> > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
> > >
> > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our
> > wide
> > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a sign
> of
> > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
> > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> > tension
> > > with each other.
> > >
> > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
> > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for assessing
> > > branding systems.
> > >
> > > == Thanks ==
> > >
> > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
> > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions
> > during
> > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
> > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of
> this
> > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> > > perspectives and insights.
> > >
> > >
> > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > >
> > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> appetite
> > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely
> > what
> > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared
> these
> > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
> > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > >
> > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
> > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > “Wikipedia”
> > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN for
> > > affiliates.
> > >
> > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
> > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite
> > you
> > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
> > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions and
> > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not
> want
> > to
> > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
> > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments left
> > on
> > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
> > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
> > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > >
> > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> approximately
> > 6
> > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are most
> > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> > decide
> > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > >
> > >  Zack
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > >
> > >
> > > [2]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > >
> > >
> > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the
> gray
> > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to
> see
> > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space
> > main
> > > page.
> > >
> > > [4]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > >
> > > Director of Brand
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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--

Zack McCune (he/him)

Director of Brand

Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Fæ
In reply to this post by Diane Ranville
If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from all
the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond with
a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?

Something along the lines of:
"The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and they
recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word "Wikipedia"
and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" to
ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the WMF.
Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"

With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every discussion
on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether "There
is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual. Rather
than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness that
comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and less
credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from embedded
bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove the
spent money had impact and "value".

P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration" when
communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate history
and gives the impression that you are quoting views from collaborators
rather than holding open collegial discussion.

Thanks,
Fae

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I agree with Pine.
> There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
> proposition.
> I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except that it is
> difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but it is
> sometimes necessary).
> Have other options even been considered?
>
> -speaking in my own name here-
>
> Diane
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hello Zack,
> >
> > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> >
> > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is considerable
> > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve our
> > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit is that,
> > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable opposition to
> > the rebranding proposal.
> >
> >
> > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having "considerable
> > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears to be
> > considerable opposition?
> >
> >
> > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays that
> > measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding the
> > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two of the
> > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using those
> > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition regarding the RfC,
> > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as declined.
> >
> > Pine
> >
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process for
> > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or watch
> > for
> > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of affiliates,
> > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am pleased
> > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> > strategy
> > > [1].
> > >
> > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors and
> > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > >
> > >    1.
> > >
> > >    Reducing confusion
> > >    2.
> > >
> > >    Protecting reputation
> > >    3.
> > >
> > >    Supporting sister projects
> > >    4.
> > >
> > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > >    5.
> > >
> > >    Supporting movement growth
> > >    6.
> > >
> > >    The process of change
> > >
> > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
> > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough indication
> > of
> > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
> > >
> > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our
> > wide
> > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a sign of
> > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
> > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> > tension
> > > with each other.
> > >
> > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
> > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for assessing
> > > branding systems.
> > >
> > > == Thanks ==
> > >
> > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
> > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions
> > during
> > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
> > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of this
> > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> > > perspectives and insights.
> > >
> > >
> > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > >
> > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general appetite
> > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely
> > what
> > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared these
> > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
> > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > >
> > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
> > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > “Wikipedia”
> > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN for
> > > affiliates.
> > >
> > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
> > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite
> > you
> > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
> > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions and
> > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not want
> > to
> > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
> > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments left
> > on
> > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
> > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
> > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > >
> > > The development of this proposed identity system will take approximately
> > 6
> > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are most
> > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> > decide
> > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > >
> > >  Zack
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> > >
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > >
> > >
> > > [2]
> > >
> > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > >
> > >
> > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the gray
> > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to see
> > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space
> > main
> > > page.
> > >
> > > [4]
> > >
> > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > >
> > > Director of Brand
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Yaroslav Blanter
I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow used to
assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from all
> the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond with
> a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
>
> Something along the lines of:
> "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and they
> recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word "Wikipedia"
> and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" to
> ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the WMF.
> Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
>
> With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every discussion
> on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether "There
> is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual. Rather
> than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness that
> comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and less
> credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from embedded
> bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove the
> spent money had impact and "value".
>
> P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration" when
> communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate history
> and gives the impression that you are quoting views from collaborators
> rather than holding open collegial discussion.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I agree with Pine.
> > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
> > proposition.
> > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except that it
> is
> > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but it is
> > sometimes necessary).
> > Have other options even been considered?
> >
> > -speaking in my own name here-
> >
> > Diane
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Zack,
> > >
> > > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> > >
> > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is
> considerable
> > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve our
> > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit is
> that,
> > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable opposition
> to
> > > the rebranding proposal.
> > >
> > >
> > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> "considerable
> > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears to be
> > > considerable opposition?
> > >
> > >
> > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays that
> > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding the
> > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two of
> the
> > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using those
> > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition regarding the
> RfC,
> > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as declined.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > >
> > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> process for
> > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or
> watch
> > > for
> > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> affiliates,
> > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> pleased
> > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> > > strategy
> > > > [1].
> > > >
> > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> contributors and
> > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > >
> > > >    1.
> > > >
> > > >    Reducing confusion
> > > >    2.
> > > >
> > > >    Protecting reputation
> > > >    3.
> > > >
> > > >    Supporting sister projects
> > > >    4.
> > > >
> > > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > >    5.
> > > >
> > > >    Supporting movement growth
> > > >    6.
> > > >
> > > >    The process of change
> > > >
> > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will
> see
> > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> indication
> > > of
> > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
> > > >
> > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across
> our
> > > wide
> > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a
> sign of
> > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity
> maps”
> > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> > > tension
> > > > with each other.
> > > >
> > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful
> and
> > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> assessing
> > > > branding systems.
> > > >
> > > > == Thanks ==
> > > >
> > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> Education
> > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions
> > > during
> > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
> Lappen,
> > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of
> this
> > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > >
> > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> appetite
> > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> precisely
> > > what
> > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared
> these
> > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
> > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > >
> > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal
> brand
> > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN
> for
> > > > affiliates.
> > > >
> > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
> > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
> invite
> > > you
> > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host
> this
> > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions
> and
> > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not
> want
> > > to
> > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> happening
> > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments
> left
> > > on
> > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas
> and
> > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
> > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > >
> > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> approximately
> > > 6
> > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are
> most
> > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> > > decide
> > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > >
> > > > Yours,
> > > >
> > > >  Zack
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the
> gray
> > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to
> see
> > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space
> > > main
> > > > page.
> > > >
> > > > [4]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > >
> > > > Director of Brand
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Paulo Santos Perneta
After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate - I
believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with this fit
of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation".

It's one after another, and never stops.

Best,
Paulo

Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia sexta, 6/09/2019 à(s)
18:25:

> I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow used to
> assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from all
> > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond with
> > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> >
> > Something along the lines of:
> > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and they
> > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word "Wikipedia"
> > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" to
> > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the WMF.
> > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> >
> > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every discussion
> > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether "There
> > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual. Rather
> > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness that
> > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and less
> > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from embedded
> > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove the
> > spent money had impact and "value".
> >
> > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration" when
> > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate history
> > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from collaborators
> > rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Fae
> >
> > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I agree with Pine.
> > > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
> > > proposition.
> > > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except that
> it
> > is
> > > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but it is
> > > sometimes necessary).
> > > Have other options even been considered?
> > >
> > > -speaking in my own name here-
> > >
> > > Diane
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Zack,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> > > >
> > > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is
> > considerable
> > > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve our
> > > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit is
> > that,
> > > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable
> opposition
> > to
> > > > the rebranding proposal.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> > "considerable
> > > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears to
> be
> > > > considerable opposition?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays that
> > > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding the
> > > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two of
> > the
> > > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using those
> > > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition regarding
> the
> > RfC,
> > > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as declined.
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > > >
> > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> > process for
> > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or
> > watch
> > > > for
> > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello all,
> > > > >
> > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > affiliates,
> > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> > pleased
> > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> > > > strategy
> > > > > [1].
> > > > >
> > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > contributors and
> > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > >
> > > > >    1.
> > > > >
> > > > >    Reducing confusion
> > > > >    2.
> > > > >
> > > > >    Protecting reputation
> > > > >    3.
> > > > >
> > > > >    Supporting sister projects
> > > > >    4.
> > > > >
> > > > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > >    5.
> > > > >
> > > > >    Supporting movement growth
> > > > >    6.
> > > > >
> > > > >    The process of change
> > > > >
> > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will
> > see
> > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> > indication
> > > > of
> > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each
> theme.
> > > > >
> > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across
> > our
> > > > wide
> > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a
> > sign of
> > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity
> > maps”
> > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> > > > tension
> > > > > with each other.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful
> > and
> > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> > assessing
> > > > > branding systems.
> > > > >
> > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> > Education
> > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> discussions
> > > > during
> > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
> > Lappen,
> > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts
> of
> > this
> > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > >
> > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> > appetite
> > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> > precisely
> > > > what
> > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared
> > these
> > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees,
> who
> > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal
> > brand
> > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN
> > for
> > > > > affiliates.
> > > > >
> > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group
> of
> > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
> > invite
> > > > you
> > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host
> > this
> > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions
> > and
> > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not
> > want
> > > > to
> > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> > happening
> > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments
> > left
> > > > on
> > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas
> > and
> > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> shared
> > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > >
> > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > approximately
> > > > 6
> > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are
> > most
> > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> > > > decide
> > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yours,
> > > > >
> > > > >  Zack
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [2]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click
> the
> > gray
> > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able
> to
> > see
> > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss
> Space
> > > > main
> > > > > page.
> > > > >
> > > > > [4]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > >
> > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Adrian Raddatz
Yet another potentially good idea from the Foundation killed by the usual
atrocious style of stakeholder management. No benefits framed for the
community, no indication that this change is coming from the bottom up, no
assurance that this change happens or not based on the results of the
consultation.

You can't figure out the benefits to the community - your key stakeholder
group - entirely as part of the consultation. You need to frame the
consultation as figuring out how to achieve pre-identified benefits to your
stakeholders in the optimal way. You should also try to get buy-in from key
community groups *before* you start consulting, and use them as part of the
consultation, so it stops being Foundation vs. the community and turns into
the Foundation collaboratively supporting community-led ideas.

It pains me to see this being done poorly, time and time again.

Adrian Raddatz


On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate - I
> believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with this fit
> of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation".
>
> It's one after another, and never stops.
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
> Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia sexta, 6/09/2019 à(s)
> 18:25:
>
> > I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow used to
> > assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from all
> > > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond with
> > > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> > >
> > > Something along the lines of:
> > > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and they
> > > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word "Wikipedia"
> > > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" to
> > > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the WMF.
> > > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> > >
> > > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every discussion
> > > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether "There
> > > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> > > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual. Rather
> > > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness that
> > > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> > > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and less
> > > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from embedded
> > > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> > > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove the
> > > spent money had impact and "value".
> > >
> > > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration" when
> > > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate history
> > > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from collaborators
> > > rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Fae
> > >
> > > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I agree with Pine.
> > > > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
> > > > proposition.
> > > > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except that
> > it
> > > is
> > > > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but it
> is
> > > > sometimes necessary).
> > > > Have other options even been considered?
> > > >
> > > > -speaking in my own name here-
> > > >
> > > > Diane
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Zack,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is
> > > considerable
> > > > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve our
> > > > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit is
> > > that,
> > > > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable
> > opposition
> > > to
> > > > > the rebranding proposal.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> > > "considerable
> > > > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears to
> > be
> > > > > considerable opposition?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays
> that
> > > > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding the
> > > > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two
> of
> > > the
> > > > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using
> those
> > > > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition regarding
> > the
> > > RfC,
> > > > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as declined.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pine
> > > > >
> > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> > > process for
> > > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or
> > > watch
> > > > > for
> > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > > affiliates,
> > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> > > pleased
> > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement
> brand
> > > > > strategy
> > > > > > [1].
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > > contributors and
> > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    1.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    Reducing confusion
> > > > > >    2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    Protecting reputation
> > > > > >    3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    Supporting sister projects
> > > > > >    4.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > >    5.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    Supporting movement growth
> > > > > >    6.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    The process of change
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You
> will
> > > see
> > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> > > indication
> > > > > of
> > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each
> > theme.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that
> across
> > > our
> > > > > wide
> > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a
> > > sign of
> > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity
> > > maps”
> > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist
> in
> > > > > tension
> > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very
> thoughtful
> > > and
> > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> > > assessing
> > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> > > Education
> > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > discussions
> > > > > during
> > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
> > > Lappen,
> > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts
> > of
> > > this
> > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering
> your
> > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> > > appetite
> > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe
> that
> > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> > > precisely
> > > > > what
> > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have
> shared
> > > these
> > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees,
> > who
> > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal
> > > brand
> > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
> OPT-IN
> > > for
> > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group
> > of
> > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during
> this
> > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
> > > invite
> > > > > you
> > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host
> > > this
> > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> discussions
> > > and
> > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do
> not
> > > want
> > > > > to
> > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> > > happening
> > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking
> comments
> > > left
> > > > > on
> > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important
> ideas
> > > and
> > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> > shared
> > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > approximately
> > > > > 6
> > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing
> lists,
> > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you
> are
> > > most
> > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power
> to
> > > > > decide
> > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Zack
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [2]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click
> > the
> > > gray
> > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able
> > to
> > > see
> > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss
> > Space
> > > > > main
> > > > > > page.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [4]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Strainu
Pe vineri, 6 septembrie 2019, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> a scris:

> Yet another potentially good idea from the Foundation killed by the usual
> atrocious style of stakeholder management. No benefits framed for the
> community,



>
> no indication that this change is coming from the bottom up,


Huh? Have you seriously never seen people asking the difference between
Wikipedia and Wikimedia or wiki(m|p) edians complaining about how hard it
is to explain that difference?

This change is very much a bottom up one, even if it is pushed by the WMF
using corporate procedures rather than by the community using an RfC.



> no
> assurance that this change happens or not based on the results of the
> consultation.


I would say that it was pretty clear the change will happen :)

Strainu

>
> You can't figure out the benefits to the community - your key stakeholder
> group - entirely as part of the consultation. You need to frame the
> consultation as figuring out how to achieve pre-identified benefits to your
> stakeholders in the optimal way. You should also try to get buy-in from key
> community groups *before* you start consulting, and use them as part of the
> consultation, so it stops being Foundation vs. the community and turns into
> the Foundation collaboratively supporting community-led ideas.
>
> It pains me to see this being done poorly, time and time again.
>
> Adrian Raddatz
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate - I
> > believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with this
> fit
> > of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation".
> >
> > It's one after another, and never stops.
> >
> > Best,
> > Paulo
> >
> > Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia sexta, 6/09/2019
> à(s)
> > 18:25:
> >
> > > I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow used to
> > > assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Yaroslav
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from all
> > > > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond with
> > > > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> > > >
> > > > Something along the lines of:
> > > > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and they
> > > > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word "Wikipedia"
> > > > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" to
> > > > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the WMF.
> > > > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> > > >
> > > > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every discussion
> > > > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether
> "There
> > > > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> > > > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual. Rather
> > > > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness that
> > > > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> > > > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and less
> > > > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from embedded
> > > > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> > > > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove the
> > > > spent money had impact and "value".
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration"
> when
> > > > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate history
> > > > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from
> collaborators
> > > > rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Fae
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with Pine.
> > > > > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
> > > > > proposition.
> > > > > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except
> that
> > > it
> > > > is
> > > > > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but
> it
> > is
> > > > > sometimes necessary).
> > > > > Have other options even been considered?
> > > > >
> > > > > -speaking in my own name here-
> > > > >
> > > > > Diane
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Zack,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is
> > > > considerable
> > > > > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve
> our
> > > > > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit
> is
> > > > that,
> > > > > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable
> > > opposition
> > > > to
> > > > > > the rebranding proposal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> > > > "considerable
> > > > > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears
> to
> > > be
> > > > > > considerable opposition?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays
> > that
> > > > > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding
> the
> > > > > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using
> > those
> > > > > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition
> regarding
> > > the
> > > > RfC,
> > > > > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as
> declined.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pine
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> > > > process for
> > > > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group,
> or
> > > > watch
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I
> am
> > > > pleased
> > > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement
> > brand
> > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > [1].
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > > > contributors and
> > > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    1.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Reducing confusion
> > > > > > >    2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Protecting reputation
> > > > > > >    3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Supporting sister projects
> > > > > > >    4.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > > >    5.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Supporting movement growth
> > > > > > >    6.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    The process of change
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You
> > will
> > > > see
> > > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> > > > indication
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each
> > > theme.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that
> > across
> > > > our
> > > > > > wide
> > > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common
> (and a
> > > > sign of
> > > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created
> “polarity
> > > > maps”
> > > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments
> coexist
> > in
> > > > > > tension
> > > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very
> > thoughtful
> > > > and
> > > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s
> branding
> > > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> > > > assessing
> > > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> > > > Education
> > > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > > discussions
> > > > > > during
> > > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
> > > > Lappen,
> > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive
> parts
> > > of
> > > > this
> > > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of
> affiliates
> > > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering
> > your
> > > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and
> general
> > > > appetite
> > > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe
> > that
> > > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> > > > precisely
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have
> > shared
> > > > these
> > > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of
> Trustees,
> > > who
> > > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on
> formal
> > > > brand
> > > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
> > OPT-IN
> > > > for
> > > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a
> group
> > > of
> > > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during
> > this
> > > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
> > > > invite
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to
> host
> > > > this
> > > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > discussions
> > > > and
> > > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do
> > not
> > > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> > > > happening
> > > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking
> > comments
> > > > left
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important
> > ideas
> > > > and
> > > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> > > shared
> > > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > > approximately
> > > > > > 6
> > > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing
> > lists,
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you
> > are
> > > > most
> > > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the
> power
> > to
> > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  Zack
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-
> with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and
> click
> > > the
> > > > gray
> > > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be
> able
> > > to
> > > > see
> > > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss
> > > Space
> > > > > > main
> > > > > > > page.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [4]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
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> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Isaac Olatunde
We sometimes spend several minutes trying to explain to potentials partners
the difference between Wikipedia and Wikimedia and the relationship between
them.

In most cases we just use "Wikipedia" so as to not confuse them.

Of course some people would share an opposing view for many reasons but I
do think this rebranding is important.

Regards

Isaac

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 9:29 PM Strainu <[hidden email] wrote:

> Pe vineri, 6 septembrie 2019, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> a
> scris:
>
> > Yet another potentially good idea from the Foundation killed by the usual
> > atrocious style of stakeholder management. No benefits framed for the
> > community,
>
>
>
> >
> > no indication that this change is coming from the bottom up,
>
>
> Huh? Have you seriously never seen people asking the difference between
> Wikipedia and Wikimedia or wiki(m|p) edians complaining about how hard it
> is to explain that difference?
>
> This change is very much a bottom up one, even if it is pushed by the WMF
> using corporate procedures rather than by the community using an RfC.
>
>
>
> > no
> > assurance that this change happens or not based on the results of the
> > consultation.
>
>
> I would say that it was pretty clear the change will happen :)
>
> Strainu
>
> >
> > You can't figure out the benefits to the community - your key stakeholder
> > group - entirely as part of the consultation. You need to frame the
> > consultation as figuring out how to achieve pre-identified benefits to
> your
> > stakeholders in the optimal way. You should also try to get buy-in from
> key
> > community groups *before* you start consulting, and use them as part of
> the
> > consultation, so it stops being Foundation vs. the community and turns
> into
> > the Foundation collaboratively supporting community-led ideas.
> >
> > It pains me to see this being done poorly, time and time again.
> >
> > Adrian Raddatz
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate - I
> > > believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with this
> > fit
> > > of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation".
> > >
> > > It's one after another, and never stops.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Paulo
> > >
> > > Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia sexta, 6/09/2019
> > à(s)
> > > 18:25:
> > >
> > > > I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow used
> to
> > > > assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Yaroslav
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from
> all
> > > > > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond
> with
> > > > > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> > > > >
> > > > > Something along the lines of:
> > > > > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and they
> > > > > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word
> "Wikipedia"
> > > > > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" to
> > > > > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the
> WMF.
> > > > > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> > > > >
> > > > > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every
> discussion
> > > > > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether
> > "There
> > > > > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> > > > > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual.
> Rather
> > > > > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness that
> > > > > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> > > > > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and less
> > > > > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from embedded
> > > > > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> > > > > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove the
> > > > > spent money had impact and "value".
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration"
> > when
> > > > > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate
> history
> > > > > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from
> > collaborators
> > > > > rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Fae
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <
> > > [hidden email]
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with Pine.
> > > > > > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
> > > > > > proposition.
> > > > > > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except
> > that
> > > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but
> > it
> > > is
> > > > > > sometimes necessary).
> > > > > > Have other options even been considered?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -speaking in my own name here-
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Diane
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello Zack,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is
> > > > > considerable
> > > > > > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve
> > our
> > > > > > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to
> omit
> > is
> > > > > that,
> > > > > > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable
> > > > opposition
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > the rebranding proposal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> > > > > "considerable
> > > > > > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what
> appears
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > > > considerable opposition?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays
> > > that
> > > > > > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding
> > the
> > > > > > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and
> two
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using
> > > those
> > > > > > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition
> > regarding
> > > > the
> > > > > RfC,
> > > > > > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as
> > declined.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> > > > > process for
> > > > > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion
> group,
> > or
> > > > > watch
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki,
> I
> > am
> > > > > pleased
> > > > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement
> > > brand
> > > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > > [1].
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > > > > contributors and
> > > > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    1.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Reducing confusion
> > > > > > > >    2.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Protecting reputation
> > > > > > > >    3.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Supporting sister projects
> > > > > > > >    4.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > > > >    5.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Supporting movement growth
> > > > > > > >    6.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    The process of change
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You
> > > will
> > > > > see
> > > > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> > > > > indication
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to
> each
> > > > theme.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that
> > > across
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > wide
> > > > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common
> > (and a
> > > > > sign of
> > > > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created
> > “polarity
> > > > > maps”
> > > > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments
> > coexist
> > > in
> > > > > > > tension
> > > > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very
> > > thoughtful
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s
> > branding
> > > > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> > > > > assessing
> > > > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> > > > > Education
> > > > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > > > discussions
> > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues
> Elena
> > > > > Lappen,
> > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive
> > parts
> > > > of
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of
> > affiliates
> > > > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering
> > > your
> > > > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and
> > general
> > > > > appetite
> > > > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we
> believe
> > > that
> > > > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> > > > > precisely
> > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have
> > > shared
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of
> > Trustees,
> > > > who
> > > > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on
> > formal
> > > > > brand
> > > > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will
> use
> > > > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
> > > OPT-IN
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a
> > group
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand
> during
> > > this
> > > > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and
> we
> > > > > invite
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to
> > host
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > > discussions
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you
> do
> > > not
> > > > > want
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> > > > > happening
> > > > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking
> > > comments
> > > > > left
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important
> > > ideas
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> > > > shared
> > > > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > > > approximately
> > > > > > > 6
> > > > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing
> > > lists,
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where
> you
> > > are
> > > > > most
> > > > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the
> > power
> > > to
> > > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  Zack
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-
> > with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and
> > click
> > > > the
> > > > > gray
> > > > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be
> > able
> > > > to
> > > > > see
> > > > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the
> Discuss
> > > > Space
> > > > > > > main
> > > > > > > > page.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [4]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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> > New messages to: [hidden email]
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
I think a rebranding to Wikipedia is the best branding option but, at the same time, I aknowledge that this can cause a wide variety of problems to so many people inside our community that doing it without a plan to give safety (not only legal, as their lives could be compromised) is a bigger danger than the benefits it causes.



2019 ira. 6 10:41 PM erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Isaac Olatunde <[hidden email]>):

We sometimes spend several minutes trying to explain to potentials partners
the difference between Wikipedia and Wikimedia and the relationship between
them.

In most cases we just use "Wikipedia" so as to not confuse them.

Of course some people would share an opposing view for many reasons but I
do think this rebranding is important.

Regards

Isaac

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 9:29 PM Strainu <[hidden email] wrote:

> Pe vineri, 6 septembrie 2019, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> a
> scris:
>
> > Yet another potentially good idea from the Foundation killed by the usual
> > atrocious style of stakeholder management. No benefits framed for the
> > community,
>
>
>
> >
> > no indication that this change is coming from the bottom up,
>
>
> Huh? Have you seriously never seen people asking the difference between
> Wikipedia and Wikimedia or wiki(m|p) edians complaining about how hard it
> is to explain that difference?
>
> This change is very much a bottom up one, even if it is pushed by the WMF
> using corporate procedures rather than by the community using an RfC.
>
>
>
> > no
> > assurance that this change happens or not based on the results of the
> > consultation.
>
>
> I would say that it was pretty clear the change will happen :)
>
> Strainu
>
> >
> > You can't figure out the benefits to the community - your key stakeholder
> > group - entirely as part of the consultation. You need to frame the
> > consultation as figuring out how to achieve pre-identified benefits to
> your
> > stakeholders in the optimal way. You should also try to get buy-in from
> key
> > community groups *before* you start consulting, and use them as part of
> the
> > consultation, so it stops being Foundation vs. the community and turns
> into
> > the Foundation collaboratively supporting community-led ideas.
> >
> > It pains me to see this being done poorly, time and time again.
> >
> > Adrian Raddatz
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate - I
> > > believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with this
> > fit
> > > of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation".
> > >
> > > It's one after another, and never stops.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Paulo
> > >
> > > Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia sexta, 6/09/2019
> > à(s)
> > > 18:25:
> > >
> > > > I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow used
> to
> > > > assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Yaroslav
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from
> all
> > > > > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond
> with
> > > > > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> > > > >
> > > > > Something along the lines of:
> > > > > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and they
> > > > > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word
> "Wikipedia"
> > > > > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" to
> > > > > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the
> WMF.
> > > > > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> > > > >
> > > > > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every
> discussion
> > > > > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether
> > "There
> > > > > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> > > > > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual.
> Rather
> > > > > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness that
> > > > > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> > > > > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and less
> > > > > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from embedded
> > > > > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> > > > > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove the
> > > > > spent money had impact and "value".
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration"
> > when
> > > > > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate
> history
> > > > > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from
> > collaborators
> > > > > rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Fae
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <
> > > [hidden email]
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with Pine.
> > > > > > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
> > > > > > proposition.
> > > > > > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except
> > that
> > > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but
> > it
> > > is
> > > > > > sometimes necessary).
> > > > > > Have other options even been considered?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -speaking in my own name here-
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Diane
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello Zack,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is
> > > > > considerable
> > > > > > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve
> > our
> > > > > > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to
> omit
> > is
> > > > > that,
> > > > > > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable
> > > > opposition
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > the rebranding proposal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> > > > > "considerable
> > > > > > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what
> appears
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > > > considerable opposition?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays
> > > that
> > > > > > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding
> > the
> > > > > > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and
> two
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using
> > > those
> > > > > > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition
> > regarding
> > > > the
> > > > > RfC,
> > > > > > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as
> > declined.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> > > > > process for
> > > > > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion
> group,
> > or
> > > > > watch
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki,
> I
> > am
> > > > > pleased
> > > > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement
> > > brand
> > > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > > [1].
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > > > > contributors and
> > > > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    1.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Reducing confusion
> > > > > > > >    2.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Protecting reputation
> > > > > > > >    3.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Supporting sister projects
> > > > > > > >    4.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > > > >    5.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Supporting movement growth
> > > > > > > >    6.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    The process of change
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You
> > > will
> > > > > see
> > > > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> > > > > indication
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to
> each
> > > > theme.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that
> > > across
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > wide
> > > > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common
> > (and a
> > > > > sign of
> > > > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created
> > “polarity
> > > > > maps”
> > > > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments
> > coexist
> > > in
> > > > > > > tension
> > > > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very
> > > thoughtful
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s
> > branding
> > > > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> > > > > assessing
> > > > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> > > > > Education
> > > > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > > > discussions
> > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues
> Elena
> > > > > Lappen,
> > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive
> > parts
> > > > of
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of
> > affiliates
> > > > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering
> > > your
> > > > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and
> > general
> > > > > appetite
> > > > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we
> believe
> > > that
> > > > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> > > > > precisely
> > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have
> > > shared
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of
> > Trustees,
> > > > who
> > > > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on
> > formal
> > > > > brand
> > > > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will
> use
> > > > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
> > > OPT-IN
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a
> > group
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand
> during
> > > this
> > > > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and
> we
> > > > > invite
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to
> > host
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > > discussions
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you
> do
> > > not
> > > > > want
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> > > > > happening
> > > > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking
> > > comments
> > > > > left
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important
> > > ideas
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> > > > shared
> > > > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > > > approximately
> > > > > > > 6
> > > > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing
> > > lists,
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where
> you
> > > are
> > > > > most
> > > > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the
> > power
> > > to
> > > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  Zack
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-
> > with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and
> > click
> > > > the
> > > > > gray
> > > > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be
> > able
> > > > to
> > > > > see
> > > > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the
> Discuss
> > > > Space
> > > > > > > main
> > > > > > > > page.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [4]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Adrian Raddatz
I think it's a fine idea. I know that nobody knows what "Wikimedia means",
and see value to moving at least the Foundation's name towards a more
recognizable brand.

I also see valid points being raised from the community, such as the
distinction between Wikipedia and WikiBooks, -Versity, -Source, etc. Those
projects are often very different from Wikipedia, and further work should
be done to understand the impacts on brand perception if those very
different projects use a more similar name. But overall, I think the idea
is good.

What is bad is that this is another top-down change being apparently made
entirely by WMF staff. The question is "how should we implement this idea
that we have already come up with, and will implement anyway"? The question
should have been brought forward much earlier in the form of "how can we
improve our brand awareness". This idea could have been put forward and
refined as part of that collaborative process. Or at least that's how it
should have been done if the WMF cares about being a service organization.

> I would say that it was pretty clear the change will happen :)
No need to mock me based on my apparent position on the issue. And I really
don't see how it is desirable that the Foundation is willing to push ideas
through without community support. Again, are they a top-down governance
organization, or a service organization aimed at supporting and empowering
the editing community and readership?

Adrian Raddatz


On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 5:05 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think a rebranding to Wikipedia is the best branding option but, at the
> same time, I aknowledge that this can cause a wide variety of problems to
> so many people inside our community that doing it without a plan to give
> safety (not only legal, as their lives could be compromised) is a bigger
> danger than the benefits it causes.
>
>
>
> 2019 ira. 6 10:41 PM erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Isaac Olatunde <
> [hidden email]>):
>
> We sometimes spend several minutes trying to explain to potentials partners
> the difference between Wikipedia and Wikimedia and the relationship between
> them.
>
> In most cases we just use "Wikipedia" so as to not confuse them.
>
> Of course some people would share an opposing view for many reasons but I
> do think this rebranding is important.
>
> Regards
>
> Isaac
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 9:29 PM Strainu <[hidden email] wrote:
>
> > Pe vineri, 6 septembrie 2019, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> a
> > scris:
> >
> > > Yet another potentially good idea from the Foundation killed by the
> usual
> > > atrocious style of stakeholder management. No benefits framed for the
> > > community,
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > no indication that this change is coming from the bottom up,
> >
> >
> > Huh? Have you seriously never seen people asking the difference between
> > Wikipedia and Wikimedia or wiki(m|p) edians complaining about how hard it
> > is to explain that difference?
> >
> > This change is very much a bottom up one, even if it is pushed by the WMF
> > using corporate procedures rather than by the community using an RfC.
> >
> >
> >
> > > no
> > > assurance that this change happens or not based on the results of the
> > > consultation.
> >
> >
> > I would say that it was pretty clear the change will happen :)
> >
> > Strainu
> >
> > >
> > > You can't figure out the benefits to the community - your key
> stakeholder
> > > group - entirely as part of the consultation. You need to frame the
> > > consultation as figuring out how to achieve pre-identified benefits to
> > your
> > > stakeholders in the optimal way. You should also try to get buy-in from
> > key
> > > community groups *before* you start consulting, and use them as part of
> > the
> > > consultation, so it stops being Foundation vs. the community and turns
> > into
> > > the Foundation collaboratively supporting community-led ideas.
> > >
> > > It pains me to see this being done poorly, time and time again.
> > >
> > > Adrian Raddatz
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate -
> I
> > > > believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with
> this
> > > fit
> > > > of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation".
> > > >
> > > > It's one after another, and never stops.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Paulo
> > > >
> > > > Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia sexta, 6/09/2019
> > > à(s)
> > > > 18:25:
> > > >
> > > > > I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow
> used
> > to
> > > > > assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Yaroslav
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from
> > all
> > > > > > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond
> > with
> > > > > > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Something along the lines of:
> > > > > > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and
> they
> > > > > > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word
> > "Wikipedia"
> > > > > > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons"
> to
> > > > > > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the
> > WMF.
> > > > > > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every
> > discussion
> > > > > > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether
> > > "There
> > > > > > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> > > > > > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual.
> > Rather
> > > > > > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness
> that
> > > > > > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> > > > > > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and
> less
> > > > > > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from
> embedded
> > > > > > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> > > > > > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove
> the
> > > > > > spent money had impact and "value".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration"
> > > when
> > > > > > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate
> > history
> > > > > > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from
> > > collaborators
> > > > > > rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Fae
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree with Pine.
> > > > > > > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the
> rebranding
> > > > > > > proposition.
> > > > > > > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward
> (except
> > > that
> > > > > it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards -
> but
> > > it
> > > > is
> > > > > > > sometimes necessary).
> > > > > > > Have other options even been considered?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -speaking in my own name here-
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Diane
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello Zack,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is
> > > > > > considerable
> > > > > > > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to
> improve
> > > our
> > > > > > > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to
> > omit
> > > is
> > > > > > that,
> > > > > > > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable
> > > > > opposition
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the rebranding proposal.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> > > > > > "considerable
> > > > > > > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what
> > appears
> > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > considerable opposition?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta
> displays
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition
> regarding
> > > the
> > > > > > > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and
> > two
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was
> using
> > > > those
> > > > > > > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition
> > > regarding
> > > > > the
> > > > > > RfC,
> > > > > > > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as
> > > declined.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <
> [hidden email]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN
> design
> > > > > > process for
> > > > > > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion
> > group,
> > > or
> > > > > > watch
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens
> of
> > > > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and
> Meta-Wiki,
> > I
> > > am
> > > > > > pleased
> > > > > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030
> movement
> > > > brand
> > > > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > > > [1].
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > > > > > contributors and
> > > > > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    1.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Reducing confusion
> > > > > > > > >    2.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Protecting reputation
> > > > > > > > >    3.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Supporting sister projects
> > > > > > > > >    4.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > > > > >    5.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Supporting movement growth
> > > > > > > > >    6.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    The process of change
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2].
> You
> > > > will
> > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a
> rough
> > > > > > indication
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to
> > each
> > > > > theme.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that
> > > > across
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > wide
> > > > > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common
> > > (and a
> > > > > > sign of
> > > > > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created
> > > “polarity
> > > > > > maps”
> > > > > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments
> > > coexist
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > tension
> > > > > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very
> > > > thoughtful
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s
> > > branding
> > > > > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria”
> for
> > > > > > assessing
> > > > > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf,
> Wikipedia
> > > > > > Education
> > > > > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > > > > discussions
> > > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues
> > Elena
> > > > > > Lappen,
> > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive
> > > parts
> > > > > of
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of
> > > affiliates
> > > > > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and
> offering
> > > > your
> > > > > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and
> > > general
> > > > > > appetite
> > > > > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we
> > believe
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance
> for
> > > > > > precisely
> > > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have
> > > > shared
> > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of
> > > Trustees,
> > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on
> > > formal
> > > > > > brand
> > > > > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will
> > use
> > > > > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will
> be
> > > > OPT-IN
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a
> > > group
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand
> > during
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered,
> and
> > we
> > > > > > invite
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space
> to
> > > host
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > > > discussions
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If
> you
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will
> be
> > > > > > happening
> > > > > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking
> > > > comments
> > > > > > left
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all
> important
> > > > ideas
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will
> be
> > > > > shared
> > > > > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > > > > approximately
> > > > > > > > 6
> > > > > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to
> mailing
> > > > lists,
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where
> > you
> > > > are
> > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the
> > > power
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >  Zack
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-
> > > with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > > brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and
> > > click
> > > > > the
> > > > > > gray
> > > > > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will
> be
> > > able
> > > > > to
> > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the
> > Discuss
> > > > > Space
> > > > > > > > main
> > > > > > > > > page.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [4]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > > brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> and
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > > > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Kiril Simeonovski
In reply to this post by Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
Hi all,

I think the problem arises from the lack of transparency about Wikimedia
Foundation's intent to hire a consulting firm for a rebranding advice. This
is a major thing that affects our entire movement and thousands of
contributors who self-identify with the brand names that we currently have.

But since they put the rebranding on the front burner and have already
spent money with no formal approval by the community, they are definitely
ready to enforce it no matter what the community opines and how strong is
the opposition built around it. The use of the ridiculous 20-per-cent
metric explained previously in this thread strongly supports this.

To give you a better insight about what has happened, imagine that your
family hire a consultant for an advice to change your personal name without
even asking you if you give consent and afterwards they come with a
proposed new name that might increase your career success. How would you
feel is exactly our community's attitude towards this rebranding.

Best regards,
Kiril

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 23:06 Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think a rebranding to Wikipedia is the best branding option but, at the
> same time, I aknowledge that this can cause a wide variety of problems to
> so many people inside our community that doing it without a plan to give
> safety (not only legal, as their lives could be compromised) is a bigger
> danger than the benefits it causes.
>
>
>
> 2019 ira. 6 10:41 PM erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Isaac Olatunde <
> [hidden email]>):
>
> We sometimes spend several minutes trying to explain to potentials partners
> the difference between Wikipedia and Wikimedia and the relationship between
> them.
>
> In most cases we just use "Wikipedia" so as to not confuse them.
>
> Of course some people would share an opposing view for many reasons but I
> do think this rebranding is important.
>
> Regards
>
> Isaac
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 9:29 PM Strainu <[hidden email] wrote:
>
> > Pe vineri, 6 septembrie 2019, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> a
> > scris:
> >
> > > Yet another potentially good idea from the Foundation killed by the
> usual
> > > atrocious style of stakeholder management. No benefits framed for the
> > > community,
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > no indication that this change is coming from the bottom up,
> >
> >
> > Huh? Have you seriously never seen people asking the difference between
> > Wikipedia and Wikimedia or wiki(m|p) edians complaining about how hard it
> > is to explain that difference?
> >
> > This change is very much a bottom up one, even if it is pushed by the WMF
> > using corporate procedures rather than by the community using an RfC.
> >
> >
> >
> > > no
> > > assurance that this change happens or not based on the results of the
> > > consultation.
> >
> >
> > I would say that it was pretty clear the change will happen :)
> >
> > Strainu
> >
> > >
> > > You can't figure out the benefits to the community - your key
> stakeholder
> > > group - entirely as part of the consultation. You need to frame the
> > > consultation as figuring out how to achieve pre-identified benefits to
> > your
> > > stakeholders in the optimal way. You should also try to get buy-in from
> > key
> > > community groups *before* you start consulting, and use them as part of
> > the
> > > consultation, so it stops being Foundation vs. the community and turns
> > into
> > > the Foundation collaboratively supporting community-led ideas.
> > >
> > > It pains me to see this being done poorly, time and time again.
> > >
> > > Adrian Raddatz
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate -
> I
> > > > believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with
> this
> > > fit
> > > > of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation".
> > > >
> > > > It's one after another, and never stops.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Paulo
> > > >
> > > > Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia sexta, 6/09/2019
> > > à(s)
> > > > 18:25:
> > > >
> > > > > I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow
> used
> > to
> > > > > assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Yaroslav
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from
> > all
> > > > > > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond
> > with
> > > > > > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Something along the lines of:
> > > > > > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and
> they
> > > > > > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word
> > "Wikipedia"
> > > > > > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons"
> to
> > > > > > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the
> > WMF.
> > > > > > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every
> > discussion
> > > > > > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether
> > > "There
> > > > > > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> > > > > > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual.
> > Rather
> > > > > > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness
> that
> > > > > > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> > > > > > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and
> less
> > > > > > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from
> embedded
> > > > > > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> > > > > > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove
> the
> > > > > > spent money had impact and "value".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration"
> > > when
> > > > > > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate
> > history
> > > > > > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from
> > > collaborators
> > > > > > rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Fae
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree with Pine.
> > > > > > > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the
> rebranding
> > > > > > > proposition.
> > > > > > > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward
> (except
> > > that
> > > > > it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards -
> but
> > > it
> > > > is
> > > > > > > sometimes necessary).
> > > > > > > Have other options even been considered?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -speaking in my own name here-
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Diane
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello Zack,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is
> > > > > > considerable
> > > > > > > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to
> improve
> > > our
> > > > > > > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to
> > omit
> > > is
> > > > > > that,
> > > > > > > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable
> > > > > opposition
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the rebranding proposal.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> > > > > > "considerable
> > > > > > > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what
> > appears
> > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > considerable opposition?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta
> displays
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition
> regarding
> > > the
> > > > > > > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and
> > two
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was
> using
> > > > those
> > > > > > > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition
> > > regarding
> > > > > the
> > > > > > RfC,
> > > > > > > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as
> > > declined.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <
> [hidden email]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN
> design
> > > > > > process for
> > > > > > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion
> > group,
> > > or
> > > > > > watch
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens
> of
> > > > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and
> Meta-Wiki,
> > I
> > > am
> > > > > > pleased
> > > > > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030
> movement
> > > > brand
> > > > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > > > [1].
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > > > > > contributors and
> > > > > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    1.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Reducing confusion
> > > > > > > > >    2.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Protecting reputation
> > > > > > > > >    3.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Supporting sister projects
> > > > > > > > >    4.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > > > > >    5.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Supporting movement growth
> > > > > > > > >    6.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    The process of change
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2].
> You
> > > > will
> > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a
> rough
> > > > > > indication
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to
> > each
> > > > > theme.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that
> > > > across
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > wide
> > > > > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common
> > > (and a
> > > > > > sign of
> > > > > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created
> > > “polarity
> > > > > > maps”
> > > > > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments
> > > coexist
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > tension
> > > > > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very
> > > > thoughtful
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s
> > > branding
> > > > > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria”
> for
> > > > > > assessing
> > > > > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf,
> Wikipedia
> > > > > > Education
> > > > > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > > > > discussions
> > > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues
> > Elena
> > > > > > Lappen,
> > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive
> > > parts
> > > > > of
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of
> > > affiliates
> > > > > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and
> offering
> > > > your
> > > > > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and
> > > general
> > > > > > appetite
> > > > > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we
> > believe
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance
> for
> > > > > > precisely
> > > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have
> > > > shared
> > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of
> > > Trustees,
> > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on
> > > formal
> > > > > > brand
> > > > > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will
> > use
> > > > > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will
> be
> > > > OPT-IN
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a
> > > group
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand
> > during
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered,
> and
> > we
> > > > > > invite
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space
> to
> > > host
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > > > discussions
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If
> you
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will
> be
> > > > > > happening
> > > > > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking
> > > > comments
> > > > > > left
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all
> important
> > > > ideas
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will
> be
> > > > > shared
> > > > > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > > > > approximately
> > > > > > > > 6
> > > > > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to
> mailing
> > > > lists,
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where
> > you
> > > > are
> > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the
> > > power
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >  Zack
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-
> > > with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > > brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and
> > > click
> > > > > the
> > > > > > gray
> > > > > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will
> be
> > > able
> > > > > to
> > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the
> > Discuss
> > > > > Space
> > > > > > > > main
> > > > > > > > > page.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [4]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > > brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> and
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > > > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Ferdinando Traversa
In reply to this post by Zachary McCune
I’m against and sincerly I don’t trust this datas (80% agrees? Are you kidding me? I’ve seen the meta discussion). I think a Meta CLEAR VOTE as suggested here is the best way. Imposing a change like this is a wrong decision.

Regards.

> Il giorno 6 set 2019, alle ore 05:49, Zack McCune <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process for
> movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or watch for
> updates on Meta-Wiki.
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of affiliates,
> several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am pleased
> to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand strategy
> [1].
>
> From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors and
> 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
>
>   1.
>
>   Reducing confusion
>   2.
>
>   Protecting reputation
>   3.
>
>   Supporting sister projects
>   4.
>
>   Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
>   5.
>
>   Supporting movement growth
>   6.
>
>   The process of change
>
> Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
> examples of comments within each section, along with a rough indication of
> how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
>
> The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our wide
> movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a sign of
> health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
> which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in tension
> with each other.
>
> Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
> useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for assessing
> branding systems.
>
> == Thanks ==
>
> I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
> Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions during
> their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
> Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of this
> consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> perspectives and insights.
>
>
> == Next steps and staying involved ==
>
> There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general appetite
> to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely what
> branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared these
> insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
> approved continuing these efforts.
>
> Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
> naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use “Wikipedia”
> as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN for
> affiliates.
>
> This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
> volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite you
> to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
> discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions and
> room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not want to
> commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
> within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments left on
> the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
> updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
> publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
>
> The development of this proposed identity system will take approximately 6
> months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are most
> comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to decide
> if/when they opt in to using the new system.
>
> Yours,
>
> Zack
>
> [1]
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
>
>
> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
>
>
> [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the gray
> "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to see
> and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space main
> page.
>
> [4]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
>
>
> --
>
> Zack McCune (he/him)
>
> Director of Brand
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Benjamin Ikuta
In reply to this post by Fæ


I agree that an RFC would be a reasonable way forward.



> On Sep 6, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from all
> the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond with
> a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
>
> Something along the lines of:
> "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and they
> recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word "Wikipedia"
> and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" to
> ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the WMF.
> Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
>
> With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every discussion
> on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether "There
> is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual. Rather
> than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness that
> comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and less
> credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from embedded
> bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove the
> spent money had impact and "value".
>
> P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration" when
> communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate history
> and gives the impression that you are quoting views from collaborators
> rather than holding open collegial discussion.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I agree with Pine.
>> There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
>> proposition.
>> I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except that it is
>> difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but it is
>> sometimes necessary).
>> Have other options even been considered?
>>
>> -speaking in my own name here-
>>
>> Diane
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Zack,
>>>
>>> Thank you for the report on Meta.
>>>
>>> I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is considerable
>>> support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve our
>>> movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit is that,
>>> according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable opposition to
>>> the rebranding proposal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having "considerable
>>> support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears to be
>>> considerable opposition?
>>>
>>>
>>> Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays that
>>> measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding the
>>> rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two of the
>>> three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using those
>>> measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition regarding the RfC,
>>> I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as declined.
>>>
>>> Pine
>>>
>>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process for
>>>> movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or watch
>>> for
>>>> updates on Meta-Wiki.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of affiliates,
>>>> several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am pleased
>>>> to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
>>> strategy
>>>> [1].
>>>>
>>>> From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors and
>>>> 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
>>>>
>>>>   1.
>>>>
>>>>   Reducing confusion
>>>>   2.
>>>>
>>>>   Protecting reputation
>>>>   3.
>>>>
>>>>   Supporting sister projects
>>>>   4.
>>>>
>>>>   Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
>>>>   5.
>>>>
>>>>   Supporting movement growth
>>>>   6.
>>>>
>>>>   The process of change
>>>>
>>>> Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
>>>> examples of comments within each section, along with a rough indication
>>> of
>>>> how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
>>>>
>>>> The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our
>>> wide
>>>> movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a sign of
>>>> health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
>>>> which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
>>> tension
>>>> with each other.
>>>>
>>>> Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
>>>> useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
>>>> successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for assessing
>>>> branding systems.
>>>>
>>>> == Thanks ==
>>>>
>>>> I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
>>>> Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions
>>> during
>>>> their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
>>>> Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of this
>>>> consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
>>>> commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
>>>> perspectives and insights.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> == Next steps and staying involved ==
>>>>
>>>> There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general appetite
>>>> to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
>>>> critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely
>>> what
>>>> branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared these
>>>> insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
>>>> approved continuing these efforts.
>>>>
>>>> Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
>>>> naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
>>> “Wikipedia”
>>>> as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN for
>>>> affiliates.
>>>>
>>>> This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
>>>> volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
>>>> consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite
>>> you
>>>> to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
>>>> discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions and
>>>> room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not want
>>> to
>>>> commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
>>>> within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments left
>>> on
>>>> the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
>>>> updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
>>>> publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
>>>>
>>>> The development of this proposed identity system will take approximately
>>> 6
>>>> months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
>>>> Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are most
>>>> comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
>>> decide
>>>> if/when they opt in to using the new system.
>>>>
>>>> Yours,
>>>>
>>>> Zack
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [2]
>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the gray
>>>> "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to see
>>>> and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space
>>> main
>>>> page.
>>>>
>>>> [4]
>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Zack McCune (he/him)
>>>>
>>>> Director of Brand
>>>>
>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Dan Szymborski
Given the typical response rate for polling is extremely low, even among
groups of people who agreed to be polled, the 20% metric is absurd. If you
put out some random notice among a million other emails to 9,000 people on
various lists submitting a proposition to change the name to Fart Factory
Incorporated, there's not a chance you'll get 1,800 to oppose it. Even a
random internet poll, paying no attention to issues of sampling would be
more accurate than this because at least internet polls don't include
non-responses as either yes or no to the question being asked. If you're
going to ask the community for input on something, then it should be done
properly

Best,

Dan

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:59 PM Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
>
> I agree that an RFC would be a reasonable way forward.
>
>
>
> > On Sep 6, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from all
> > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond with
> > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> >
> > Something along the lines of:
> > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and they
> > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word "Wikipedia"
> > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" to
> > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the WMF.
> > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> >
> > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every discussion
> > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether "There
> > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual. Rather
> > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness that
> > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and less
> > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from embedded
> > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove the
> > spent money had impact and "value".
> >
> > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration" when
> > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate history
> > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from collaborators
> > rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Fae
> >
> > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I agree with Pine.
> >> There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
> >> proposition.
> >> I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except that
> it is
> >> difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but it is
> >> sometimes necessary).
> >> Have other options even been considered?
> >>
> >> -speaking in my own name here-
> >>
> >> Diane
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Zack,
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for the report on Meta.
> >>>
> >>> I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is
> considerable
> >>> support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve our
> >>> movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit is
> that,
> >>> according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable opposition
> to
> >>> the rebranding proposal.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> "considerable
> >>> support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears to be
> >>> considerable opposition?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays that
> >>> measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding the
> >>> rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two of
> the
> >>> three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using those
> >>> measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition regarding the
> RfC,
> >>> I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as declined.
> >>>
> >>> Pine
> >>>
> >>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process
> for
> >>>> movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or
> watch
> >>> for
> >>>> updates on Meta-Wiki.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello all,
> >>>>
> >>>> After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> affiliates,
> >>>> several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> pleased
> >>>> to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> >>> strategy
> >>>> [1].
> >>>>
> >>>> From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors
> and
> >>>> 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> >>>>
> >>>>   1.
> >>>>
> >>>>   Reducing confusion
> >>>>   2.
> >>>>
> >>>>   Protecting reputation
> >>>>   3.
> >>>>
> >>>>   Supporting sister projects
> >>>>   4.
> >>>>
> >>>>   Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> >>>>   5.
> >>>>
> >>>>   Supporting movement growth
> >>>>   6.
> >>>>
> >>>>   The process of change
> >>>>
> >>>> Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
> >>>> examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> indication
> >>> of
> >>>> how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
> >>>>
> >>>> The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our
> >>> wide
> >>>> movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a
> sign of
> >>>> health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
> >>>> which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> >>> tension
> >>>> with each other.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
> >>>> useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> >>>> successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> assessing
> >>>> branding systems.
> >>>>
> >>>> == Thanks ==
> >>>>
> >>>> I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
> >>>> Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions
> >>> during
> >>>> their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
> >>>> Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of
> this
> >>>> consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> >>>> commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> >>>> perspectives and insights.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> == Next steps and staying involved ==
> >>>>
> >>>> There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> appetite
> >>>> to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> >>>> critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely
> >>> what
> >>>> branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared
> these
> >>>> insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
> >>>> approved continuing these efforts.
> >>>>
> >>>> Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
> >>>> naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> >>> “Wikipedia”
> >>>> as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN
> for
> >>>> affiliates.
> >>>>
> >>>> This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
> >>>> volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> >>>> consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite
> >>> you
> >>>> to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
> >>>> discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions
> and
> >>>> room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not
> want
> >>> to
> >>>> commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
> >>>> within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments
> left
> >>> on
> >>>> the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
> >>>> updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
> >>>> publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> >>>>
> >>>> The development of this proposed identity system will take
> approximately
> >>> 6
> >>>> months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> >>>> Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are
> most
> >>>> comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> >>> decide
> >>>> if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yours,
> >>>>
> >>>> Zack
> >>>>
> >>>> [1]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [2]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the
> gray
> >>>> "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to
> see
> >>>> and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space
> >>> main
> >>>> page.
> >>>>
> >>>> [4]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> Zack McCune (he/him)
> >>>>
> >>>> Director of Brand
> >>>>
> >>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Mario Gómez
In reply to this post by Zachary McCune
Hello,

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 5:49 AM Zack McCune <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors and
> 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
>
>
The benchmark is completely twisted to make opposition impossible:

* Support and Opposition are measured by different metrics: Support is
measured by "reviewing affiliates support" and opposition by "informed user
opposition".
* Support percentage is set at 38% for reviewing affiliates (24
affiliates?), it would be roughly 19% for reached affiliates and 15% of
total affiliates.
* Opposition percentage is set at 0.6% for informed (reached) users, it
would be 38% of reviewing users.

On the other hand:

* Opposition from reviewing affiliates is 9.5%.
* Support from reviewing users is 13% (vs 38% oppose)
* Support from reached users is around 0.2% (vs 0.6% oppose).

The support and opposition metrics seem to be cherry-picked to force a
strong support result, but that is not the case when comparable metrics are
used.

I agree that a proper RFC should be created, possibly at the initiative of
the community, to get a clearer result.

Best,

MarioGom
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Lucas Werkmeister-2
In reply to this post by Zachary McCune
On 06.09.19 05:49, Zack McCune wrote:
>    3.
>
>    Supporting sister projects

I am extremely wary of this phrasing. Instead of a family of projects
working together towards a shared goal, to me this invokes the image of
a big, central Wikipedia who graciously supports the other,
insignificant projects out of the goodness of her heart. As a Wikidata
editor, that is not how I want my relation to this movement characterized.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
By the way, the solution is really easy: The Wiki Foundation.

2019 ira. 7 1:39 PM erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Lucas Werkmeister <[hidden email]>):

On 06.09.19 05:49, Zack McCune wrote:
>    3.
>
>    Supporting sister projects

I am extremely wary of this phrasing. Instead of a family of projects
working together towards a shared goal, to me this invokes the image of
a big, central Wikipedia who graciously supports the other,
insignificant projects out of the goodness of her heart. As a Wikidata
editor, that is not how I want my relation to this movement characterized.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by Lucas Werkmeister-2
Hoi,
The right question here: how have you supported the sister projects in the
past. The follow question: Branding is about getting attention for
products. How will the sister projects benefit from more attention to
Wikipedia?

The point is we have not marketed the products from sister projects. We
could have and the results would have been wildly important and relevant to
a mission where we aim to share in the sum of all knowledge.
Thanks,
       GerardM

On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 13:40, Lucas Werkmeister <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 06.09.19 05:49, Zack McCune wrote:
> >    3.
> >
> >    Supporting sister projects
>
> I am extremely wary of this phrasing. Instead of a family of projects
> working together towards a shared goal, to me this invokes the image of
> a big, central Wikipedia who graciously supports the other,
> insignificant projects out of the goodness of her heart. As a Wikidata
> editor, that is not how I want my relation to this movement characterized.
>
> _______________________________________________
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