[Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Strainu
Pe sâmbătă, 7 septembrie 2019, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> a scris:

> I think it's a fine idea. I know that nobody knows what "Wikimedia means",
> and see value to moving at least the Foundation's name towards a more
> recognizable brand.
>
> I also see valid points being raised from the community, such as the
> distinction between Wikipedia and WikiBooks, -Versity, -Source, etc. Those
> projects are often very different from Wikipedia, and further work should
> be done to understand the impacts on brand perception if those very
> different projects use a more similar name. But overall, I think the idea
> is good.
>
> What is bad is that this is another top-down change being apparently made
> entirely by WMF staff. The question is "how should we implement this idea
> that we have already come up with, and will implement anyway"? The question
> should have been brought forward much earlier in the form of "how can we
> improve our brand awareness". This idea could have been put forward and
> refined as part of that collaborative process. Or at least that's how it
> should have been done if the WMF cares about being a service organization.
>
> > I would say that it was pretty clear the change will happen :)
> No need to mock me based on my apparent position on the issue.


I was not mocking you. Maybe ":)" was not the most appropriate emoticon in
the context, but when the WMF comes up with such grand plans the default
line of thought should be the change will happen unless there is a huge
push back from the community. In this case, the push back has been mild at
best.


And I really
> don't see how it is desirable that the Foundation is willing to push ideas
> through without community support.


I have come to realize that what the community *thinks* about our users and
the reality can be a world apart. We are also adverse to change (by design,
mostly). These things mean that sometimes courageous ideas will need to be
pushed in spite of the vocal opposition of some particularly conservative
members of the community.

Also, as I said, in this particular case the feedback has not been clearly
negative, so I would not call the process as being "without community
support". P


> Again, are they a top-down governance
> organization, or a service organization aimed at supporting and empowering
> the editing community and readership?


Unfortunately right now more of the former. There is a significant number
of employees that simply don't understand why they should wait for and
listen to community feedback.

But employees can be replaced if there is enough will. The real danger
comes from the strategy recommendations that explicitly ask for more
coordination from the wmf regarding a range of subjects.

Strainu

>
> Adrian Raddatz
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 5:05 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I think a rebranding to Wikipedia is the best branding option but, at the
> > same time, I aknowledge that this can cause a wide variety of problems to
> > so many people inside our community that doing it without a plan to give
> > safety (not only legal, as their lives could be compromised) is a bigger
> > danger than the benefits it causes.
> >
> >
> >
> > 2019 ira. 6 10:41 PM erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Isaac Olatunde <
> > [hidden email]>):
> >
> > We sometimes spend several minutes trying to explain to potentials
> partners
> > the difference between Wikipedia and Wikimedia and the relationship
> between
> > them.
> >
> > In most cases we just use "Wikipedia" so as to not confuse them.
> >
> > Of course some people would share an opposing view for many reasons but I
> > do think this rebranding is important.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Isaac
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 9:29 PM Strainu <[hidden email] wrote:
> >
> > > Pe vineri, 6 septembrie 2019, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> a
> > > scris:
> > >
> > > > Yet another potentially good idea from the Foundation killed by the
> > usual
> > > > atrocious style of stakeholder management. No benefits framed for the
> > > > community,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > no indication that this change is coming from the bottom up,
> > >
> > >
> > > Huh? Have you seriously never seen people asking the difference between
> > > Wikipedia and Wikimedia or wiki(m|p) edians complaining about how hard
> it
> > > is to explain that difference?
> > >
> > > This change is very much a bottom up one, even if it is pushed by the
> WMF
> > > using corporate procedures rather than by the community using an RfC.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > no
> > > > assurance that this change happens or not based on the results of the
> > > > consultation.
> > >
> > >
> > > I would say that it was pretty clear the change will happen :)
> > >
> > > Strainu
> > >
> > > >
> > > > You can't figure out the benefits to the community - your key
> > stakeholder
> > > > group - entirely as part of the consultation. You need to frame the
> > > > consultation as figuring out how to achieve pre-identified benefits
> to
> > > your
> > > > stakeholders in the optimal way. You should also try to get buy-in
> from
> > > key
> > > > community groups *before* you start consulting, and use them as part
> of
> > > the
> > > > consultation, so it stops being Foundation vs. the community and
> turns
> > > into
> > > > the Foundation collaboratively supporting community-led ideas.
> > > >
> > > > It pains me to see this being done poorly, time and time again.
> > > >
> > > > Adrian Raddatz
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate
> -
> > I
> > > > > believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with
> > this
> > > > fit
> > > > > of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation".
> > > > >
> > > > > It's one after another, and never stops.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Paulo
> > > > >
> > > > > Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia sexta,
> 6/09/2019
> > > > à(s)
> > > > > 18:25:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow
> > used
> > > to
> > > > > > assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > Yaroslav
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived
> from
> > > all
> > > > > > > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now
> respond
> > > with
> > > > > > > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Something along the lines of:
> > > > > > > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and
> > they
> > > > > > > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word
> > > "Wikipedia"
> > > > > > > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to
> "Wikicommons"
> > to
> > > > > > > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the
> > > WMF.
> > > > > > > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every
> > > discussion
> > > > > > > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether
> > > > "There
> > > > > > > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> > > > > > > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual.
> > > Rather
> > > > > > > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness
> > that
> > > > > > > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case
> without
> > > > > > > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and
> > less
> > > > > > > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from
> > embedded
> > > > > > > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> > > > > > > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove
> > the
> > > > > > > spent money had impact and "value".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word
> "collaboration"
> > > > when
> > > > > > > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate
> > > history
> > > > > > > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from
> > > > collaborators
> > > > > > > rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Fae
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree with Pine.
> > > > > > > > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the
> > rebranding
> > > > > > > > proposition.
> > > > > > > > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward
> > (except
> > > > that
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards -
> > but
> > > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > sometimes necessary).
> > > > > > > > Have other options even been considered?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -speaking in my own name here-
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Diane
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello Zack,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There
> is
> > > > > > > considerable
> > > > > > > > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to
> > improve
> > > > our
> > > > > > > > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to
> > > omit
> > > > is
> > > > > > > that,
> > > > > > > > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable
> > > > > > opposition
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > the rebranding proposal.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as
> having
> > > > > > > "considerable
> > > > > > > > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what
> > > appears
> > > > to
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > considerable opposition?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta
> > displays
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition
> > regarding
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor
> and
> > > two
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was
> > using
> > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition
> > > > regarding
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > RfC,
> > > > > > > > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as
> > > > declined.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN
> > design
> > > > > > > process for
> > > > > > > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion
> > > group,
> > > > or
> > > > > > > watch
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens
> > of
> > > > > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and
> > Meta-Wiki,
> > > I
> > > > am
> > > > > > > pleased
> > > > > > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030
> > movement
> > > > > brand
> > > > > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > > > > [1].
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > > > > > > contributors and
> > > > > > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    1.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    Reducing confusion
> > > > > > > > > >    2.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    Protecting reputation
> > > > > > > > > >    3.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    Supporting sister projects
> > > > > > > > > >    4.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > > > > > >    5.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    Supporting movement growth
> > > > > > > > > >    6.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    The process of change
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2].
> > You
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a
> > rough
> > > > > > > indication
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to
> > > each
> > > > > > theme.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing
> that
> > > > > across
> > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > wide
> > > > > > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are
> common
> > > > (and a
> > > > > > > sign of
> > > > > > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created
> > > > “polarity
> > > > > > > maps”
> > > > > > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments
> > > > coexist
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > tension
> > > > > > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very
> > > > > thoughtful
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s
> > > > branding
> > > > > > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria”
> > for
> > > > > > > assessing
> > > > > > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf,
> > Wikipedia
> > > > > > > Education
> > > > > > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > > > > > discussions
> > > > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues
> > > Elena
> > > > > > > Lappen,
> > > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted
> extensive
> > > > parts
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of
> > > > affiliates
> > > > > > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and
> > offering
> > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and
> > > > general
> > > > > > > appetite
> > > > > > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we
> > > believe
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance
> > for
> > > > > > > precisely
> > > > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We
> have
> > > > > shared
> > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of
> > > > Trustees,
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on
> > > > formal
> > > > > > > brand
> > > > > > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that
> will
> > > use
> > > > > > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will
> > be
> > > > > OPT-IN
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network”
> – a
> > > > group
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand
> > > during
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered,
> > and
> > > we
> > > > > > > invite
> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space
> > to
> > > > host
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > > > > discussions
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If
> > you
> > > do
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will
> > be
> > > > > > > happening
> > > > > > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking
> > > > > comments
> > > > > > > left
> > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all
> > important
> > > > > ideas
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion
> will
> > be
> > > > > > shared
> > > > > > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will
> take
> > > > > > > approximately
> > > > > > > > > 6
> > > > > > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to
> > mailing
> > > > > lists,
> > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us
> where
> > > you
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have
> the
> > > > power
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >  Zack
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-
> > > > with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > > > brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network
> and
> > > > click
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > gray
> > > > > > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will
> > be
> > > > able
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the
> > > Discuss
> > > > > > Space
> > > > > > > > > main
> > > > > > > > > > page.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [4]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > > > brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > and
> > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> and
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > > > > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Mario Gómez
In reply to this post by Mario Gómez
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 11:58 AM Mario Gómez <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 5:49 AM Zack McCune <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors and
>> 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
>>
>>
> * Opposition percentage is set at 0.6% for informed (reached) users, it
> would be 38% of reviewing users.
>
>
With respect to the what would be considered a high opposition rate, do you
realize that 20% of _reached_ users means that the bar was set to 1,800
users to voice their opposition explicitly?

Best,

MarioGom
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Kiril Simeonovski
In reply to this post by Ferdinando Traversa
Hi all,

It seems like there is a clear consensus to open an RfC on Meta about this,
so we can safely move forward with it and close this thread. Otherwise, we
will most likely keep up boggling our minds with the 20-per-cent metric and
endlessly discuss how unfortunate is this for the global community when the
only rational thing we can do is take action and save everyone's time.

Do you have any concluding remarks or comments regarding the RfC?

Best regards,
Kiril

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:57 PM Ferdinando Traversa <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I’m against and sincerly I don’t trust this datas (80% agrees? Are you
> kidding me? I’ve seen the meta discussion). I think a Meta CLEAR VOTE as
> suggested here is the best way. Imposing a change like this is a wrong
> decision.
>
> Regards.
>
> > Il giorno 6 set 2019, alle ore 05:49, Zack McCune <[hidden email]>
> ha scritto:
> >
> > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process for
> > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or watch
> for
> > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> >
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of affiliates,
> > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am pleased
> > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> strategy
> > [1].
> >
> > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors and
> > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> >
> >   1.
> >
> >   Reducing confusion
> >   2.
> >
> >   Protecting reputation
> >   3.
> >
> >   Supporting sister projects
> >   4.
> >
> >   Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> >   5.
> >
> >   Supporting movement growth
> >   6.
> >
> >   The process of change
> >
> > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
> > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough indication
> of
> > how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
> >
> > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our
> wide
> > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a sign of
> > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
> > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> tension
> > with each other.
> >
> > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
> > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for assessing
> > branding systems.
> >
> > == Thanks ==
> >
> > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
> > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions
> during
> > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
> > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of this
> > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> > perspectives and insights.
> >
> >
> > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> >
> > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general appetite
> > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely
> what
> > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared these
> > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
> > approved continuing these efforts.
> >
> > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
> > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> “Wikipedia”
> > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN for
> > affiliates.
> >
> > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
> > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite
> you
> > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
> > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions and
> > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not want
> to
> > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
> > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments left
> on
> > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
> > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
> > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> >
> > The development of this proposed identity system will take approximately
> 6
> > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are most
> > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> decide
> > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Zack
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> >
> >
> > [2]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> >
> >
> > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the gray
> > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to see
> > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space
> main
> > page.
> >
> > [4]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Zack McCune (he/him)
> >
> > Director of Brand
> >
> > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Yaroslav Blanter
Right.

I guess a central notice about an RfC would be appropriate.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:16 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> It seems like there is a clear consensus to open an RfC on Meta about this,
> so we can safely move forward with it and close this thread. Otherwise, we
> will most likely keep up boggling our minds with the 20-per-cent metric and
> endlessly discuss how unfortunate is this for the global community when the
> only rational thing we can do is take action and save everyone's time.
>
> Do you have any concluding remarks or comments regarding the RfC?
>
> Best regards,
> Kiril
>
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:57 PM Ferdinando Traversa <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I’m against and sincerly I don’t trust this datas (80% agrees? Are you
> > kidding me? I’ve seen the meta discussion). I think a Meta CLEAR VOTE as
> > suggested here is the best way. Imposing a change like this is a wrong
> > decision.
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > > Il giorno 6 set 2019, alle ore 05:49, Zack McCune <
> [hidden email]>
> > ha scritto:
> > >
> > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process
> for
> > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or watch
> > for
> > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> affiliates,
> > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> pleased
> > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> > strategy
> > > [1].
> > >
> > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors
> and
> > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > >
> > >   1.
> > >
> > >   Reducing confusion
> > >   2.
> > >
> > >   Protecting reputation
> > >   3.
> > >
> > >   Supporting sister projects
> > >   4.
> > >
> > >   Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > >   5.
> > >
> > >   Supporting movement growth
> > >   6.
> > >
> > >   The process of change
> > >
> > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
> > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough indication
> > of
> > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
> > >
> > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our
> > wide
> > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a sign
> of
> > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
> > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> > tension
> > > with each other.
> > >
> > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
> > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for assessing
> > > branding systems.
> > >
> > > == Thanks ==
> > >
> > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
> > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions
> > during
> > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
> > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of
> this
> > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> > > perspectives and insights.
> > >
> > >
> > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > >
> > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> appetite
> > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely
> > what
> > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared
> these
> > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
> > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > >
> > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
> > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > “Wikipedia”
> > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN for
> > > affiliates.
> > >
> > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
> > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite
> > you
> > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
> > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions and
> > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not
> want
> > to
> > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
> > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments left
> > on
> > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
> > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
> > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > >
> > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> approximately
> > 6
> > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are most
> > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> > decide
> > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > >
> > > Zack
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > >
> > >
> > > [2]
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > >
> > >
> > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the
> gray
> > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to
> see
> > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space
> > main
> > > page.
> > >
> > > [4]
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > >
> > > Director of Brand
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

David Gerard-2
On all wikis?

On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 19:19, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Right.
>
> I guess a central notice about an RfC would be appropriate.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:16 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > It seems like there is a clear consensus to open an RfC on Meta about this,
> > so we can safely move forward with it and close this thread. Otherwise, we
> > will most likely keep up boggling our minds with the 20-per-cent metric and
> > endlessly discuss how unfortunate is this for the global community when the
> > only rational thing we can do is take action and save everyone's time.
> >
> > Do you have any concluding remarks or comments regarding the RfC?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Kiril
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:57 PM Ferdinando Traversa <
> > [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I’m against and sincerly I don’t trust this datas (80% agrees? Are you
> > > kidding me? I’ve seen the meta discussion). I think a Meta CLEAR VOTE as
> > > suggested here is the best way. Imposing a change like this is a wrong
> > > decision.
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > > > Il giorno 6 set 2019, alle ore 05:49, Zack McCune <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > ha scritto:
> > > >
> > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process
> > for
> > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or watch
> > > for
> > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > affiliates,
> > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> > pleased
> > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> > > strategy
> > > > [1].
> > > >
> > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors
> > and
> > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > >
> > > >   1.
> > > >
> > > >   Reducing confusion
> > > >   2.
> > > >
> > > >   Protecting reputation
> > > >   3.
> > > >
> > > >   Supporting sister projects
> > > >   4.
> > > >
> > > >   Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > >   5.
> > > >
> > > >   Supporting movement growth
> > > >   6.
> > > >
> > > >   The process of change
> > > >
> > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
> > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough indication
> > > of
> > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
> > > >
> > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our
> > > wide
> > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a sign
> > of
> > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
> > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> > > tension
> > > > with each other.
> > > >
> > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
> > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for assessing
> > > > branding systems.
> > > >
> > > > == Thanks ==
> > > >
> > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
> > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions
> > > during
> > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
> > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of
> > this
> > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > >
> > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> > appetite
> > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely
> > > what
> > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared
> > these
> > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
> > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > >
> > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
> > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN for
> > > > affiliates.
> > > >
> > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
> > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite
> > > you
> > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
> > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions and
> > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not
> > want
> > > to
> > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
> > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments left
> > > on
> > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
> > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
> > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > >
> > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > approximately
> > > 6
> > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are most
> > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> > > decide
> > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > >
> > > > Yours,
> > > >
> > > > Zack
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > >
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the
> > gray
> > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to
> > see
> > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space
> > > main
> > > > page.
> > > >
> > > > [4]
> > > >
> > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > >
> > > > Director of Brand
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Kiril Simeonovski
HI David,

Yes, it stands to reason to announce on all wikis in a similar way as the
announcements about board or steward elections.

Best,
Kiril

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 9:46 PM David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On all wikis?
>
> On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 19:19, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Right.
> >
> > I guess a central notice about an RfC would be appropriate.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:16 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > It seems like there is a clear consensus to open an RfC on Meta about
> this,
> > > so we can safely move forward with it and close this thread.
> Otherwise, we
> > > will most likely keep up boggling our minds with the 20-per-cent
> metric and
> > > endlessly discuss how unfortunate is this for the global community
> when the
> > > only rational thing we can do is take action and save everyone's time.
> > >
> > > Do you have any concluding remarks or comments regarding the RfC?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Kiril
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:57 PM Ferdinando Traversa <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I’m against and sincerly I don’t trust this datas (80% agrees? Are
> you
> > > > kidding me? I’ve seen the meta discussion). I think a Meta CLEAR
> VOTE as
> > > > suggested here is the best way. Imposing a change like this is a
> wrong
> > > > decision.
> > > >
> > > > Regards.
> > > >
> > > > > Il giorno 6 set 2019, alle ore 05:49, Zack McCune <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > > ha scritto:
> > > > >
> > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> process
> > > for
> > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or
> watch
> > > > for
> > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello all,
> > > > >
> > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > > affiliates,
> > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> > > pleased
> > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> > > > strategy
> > > > > [1].
> > > > >
> > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> contributors
> > > and
> > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > >
> > > > >   1.
> > > > >
> > > > >   Reducing confusion
> > > > >   2.
> > > > >
> > > > >   Protecting reputation
> > > > >   3.
> > > > >
> > > > >   Supporting sister projects
> > > > >   4.
> > > > >
> > > > >   Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > >   5.
> > > > >
> > > > >   Supporting movement growth
> > > > >   6.
> > > > >
> > > > >   The process of change
> > > > >
> > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will
> see
> > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> indication
> > > > of
> > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each
> theme.
> > > > >
> > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across
> our
> > > > wide
> > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a
> sign
> > > of
> > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity
> maps”
> > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> > > > tension
> > > > > with each other.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful
> and
> > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> assessing
> > > > > branding systems.
> > > > >
> > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> Education
> > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> discussions
> > > > during
> > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
> Lappen,
> > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts
> of
> > > this
> > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > >
> > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> > > appetite
> > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> precisely
> > > > what
> > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared
> > > these
> > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees,
> who
> > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal
> brand
> > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
> OPT-IN for
> > > > > affiliates.
> > > > >
> > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group
> of
> > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
> invite
> > > > you
> > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host
> this
> > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> discussions and
> > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not
> > > want
> > > > to
> > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> happening
> > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments
> left
> > > > on
> > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas
> and
> > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> shared
> > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > >
> > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > approximately
> > > > 6
> > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are
> most
> > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> > > > decide
> > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yours,
> > > > >
> > > > > Zack
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [2]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click
> the
> > > gray
> > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able
> to
> > > see
> > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss
> Space
> > > > main
> > > > > page.
> > > > >
> > > > > [4]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > >
> > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

David Gerard-2
I concur, it sounds sensible.

(I'll note, I'm not actually against the name change proposal - but
it's got to be presented to the community properly.)

On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 20:50, Kiril Simeonovski
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> HI David,
>
> Yes, it stands to reason to announce on all wikis in a similar way as the
> announcements about board or steward elections.
>
> Best,
> Kiril
>
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 9:46 PM David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On all wikis?
> >
> > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 19:19, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Right.
> > >
> > > I guess a central notice about an RfC would be appropriate.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Yaroslav
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:16 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > It seems like there is a clear consensus to open an RfC on Meta about
> > this,
> > > > so we can safely move forward with it and close this thread.
> > Otherwise, we
> > > > will most likely keep up boggling our minds with the 20-per-cent
> > metric and
> > > > endlessly discuss how unfortunate is this for the global community
> > when the
> > > > only rational thing we can do is take action and save everyone's time.
> > > >
> > > > Do you have any concluding remarks or comments regarding the RfC?
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Kiril
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:57 PM Ferdinando Traversa <
> > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I’m against and sincerly I don’t trust this datas (80% agrees? Are
> > you
> > > > > kidding me? I’ve seen the meta discussion). I think a Meta CLEAR
> > VOTE as
> > > > > suggested here is the best way. Imposing a change like this is a
> > wrong
> > > > > decision.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Il giorno 6 set 2019, alle ore 05:49, Zack McCune <
> > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > ha scritto:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> > process
> > > > for
> > > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or
> > watch
> > > > > for
> > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> > > > pleased
> > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> > > > > strategy
> > > > > > [1].
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > contributors
> > > > and
> > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   1.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   Reducing confusion
> > > > > >   2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   Protecting reputation
> > > > > >   3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   Supporting sister projects
> > > > > >   4.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > >   5.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   Supporting movement growth
> > > > > >   6.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   The process of change
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will
> > see
> > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> > indication
> > > > > of
> > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each
> > theme.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across
> > our
> > > > > wide
> > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a
> > sign
> > > > of
> > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity
> > maps”
> > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> > > > > tension
> > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful
> > and
> > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> > assessing
> > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> > Education
> > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > discussions
> > > > > during
> > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
> > Lappen,
> > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts
> > of
> > > > this
> > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> > > > appetite
> > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> > precisely
> > > > > what
> > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared
> > > > these
> > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees,
> > who
> > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal
> > brand
> > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
> > OPT-IN for
> > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group
> > of
> > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
> > invite
> > > > > you
> > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host
> > this
> > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > discussions and
> > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not
> > > > want
> > > > > to
> > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> > happening
> > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments
> > left
> > > > > on
> > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas
> > and
> > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> > shared
> > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > > approximately
> > > > > 6
> > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are
> > most
> > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> > > > > decide
> > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zack
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [2]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click
> > the
> > > > gray
> > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able
> > to
> > > > see
> > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss
> > Space
> > > > > main
> > > > > > page.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [4]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Ferdinando Traversa
It’ll be a very very important RFC. More than elections, it’s about all global identity.
CentralNotice is appropriate.

Ferdinando

> Il giorno 7 set 2019, alle ore 22:06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> I concur, it sounds sensible.
>
> (I'll note, I'm not actually against the name change proposal - but
> it's got to be presented to the community properly.)
>
> On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 20:50, Kiril Simeonovski
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> HI David,
>>
>> Yes, it stands to reason to announce on all wikis in a similar way as the
>> announcements about board or steward elections.
>>
>> Best,
>> Kiril
>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 9:46 PM David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On all wikis?
>>>
>>> On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 19:19, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Right.
>>>>
>>>> I guess a central notice about an RfC would be appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Yaroslav
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:16 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems like there is a clear consensus to open an RfC on Meta about
>>> this,
>>>>> so we can safely move forward with it and close this thread.
>>> Otherwise, we
>>>>> will most likely keep up boggling our minds with the 20-per-cent
>>> metric and
>>>>> endlessly discuss how unfortunate is this for the global community
>>> when the
>>>>> only rational thing we can do is take action and save everyone's time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have any concluding remarks or comments regarding the RfC?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Kiril
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:57 PM Ferdinando Traversa <
>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m against and sincerly I don’t trust this datas (80% agrees? Are
>>> you
>>>>>> kidding me? I’ve seen the meta discussion). I think a Meta CLEAR
>>> VOTE as
>>>>>> suggested here is the best way. Imposing a change like this is a
>>> wrong
>>>>>> decision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Il giorno 6 set 2019, alle ore 05:49, Zack McCune <
>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>> ha scritto:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
>>> process
>>>>> for
>>>>>>> movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or
>>> watch
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> updates on Meta-Wiki.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
>>>>> affiliates,
>>>>>>> several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
>>>>> pleased
>>>>>>> to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
>>>>>> strategy
>>>>>>> [1].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
>>> contributors
>>>>> and
>>>>>>> 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  1.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Reducing confusion
>>>>>>>  2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Protecting reputation
>>>>>>>  3.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Supporting sister projects
>>>>>>>  4.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
>>>>>>>  5.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Supporting movement growth
>>>>>>>  6.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  The process of change
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will
>>> see
>>>>>>> examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
>>> indication
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> how many of the comments that we received were related to each
>>> theme.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across
>>> our
>>>>>> wide
>>>>>>> movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a
>>> sign
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity
>>> maps”
>>>>>>> which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
>>>>>> tension
>>>>>>> with each other.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful
>>> and
>>>>>>> useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
>>>>>>> successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
>>> assessing
>>>>>>> branding systems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> == Thanks ==
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
>>> Education
>>>>>>> Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
>>> discussions
>>>>>> during
>>>>>>> their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
>>> Lappen,
>>>>>>> Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts
>>> of
>>>>> this
>>>>>>> consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
>>>>>>> commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
>>>>>>> perspectives and insights.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> == Next steps and staying involved ==
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
>>>>> appetite
>>>>>>> to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
>>>>>>> critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
>>> precisely
>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared
>>>>> these
>>>>>>> insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees,
>>> who
>>>>>>> approved continuing these efforts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal
>>> brand
>>>>>>> naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
>>>>>> “Wikipedia”
>>>>>>> as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
>>> OPT-IN for
>>>>>>> affiliates.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group
>>> of
>>>>>>> volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
>>>>>>> consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
>>> invite
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host
>>> this
>>>>>>> discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
>>> discussions and
>>>>>>> room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not
>>>>> want
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
>>> happening
>>>>>>> within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments
>>> left
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas
>>> and
>>>>>>> updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
>>> shared
>>>>>>> publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The development of this proposed identity system will take
>>>>> approximately
>>>>>> 6
>>>>>>> months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
>>>>>>> Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are
>>> most
>>>>>>> comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
>>>>>> decide
>>>>>>> if/when they opt in to using the new system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Zack
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [2]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click
>>> the
>>>>> gray
>>>>>>> "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able
>>> to
>>>>> see
>>>>>>> and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss
>>> Space
>>>>>> main
>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [4]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Zack McCune (he/him)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Director of Brand
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Todd Allen
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
Yes, let's see an actually public RfC on this. We shouldn't have to argue
about what the support/oppose proportions are, we should see it right there
on an on-wiki page where anyone is free to review them.

Todd

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 2:06 PM David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I concur, it sounds sensible.
>
> (I'll note, I'm not actually against the name change proposal - but
> it's got to be presented to the community properly.)
>
> On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 20:50, Kiril Simeonovski
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > HI David,
> >
> > Yes, it stands to reason to announce on all wikis in a similar way as the
> > announcements about board or steward elections.
> >
> > Best,
> > Kiril
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 9:46 PM David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > On all wikis?
> > >
> > > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 19:19, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Right.
> > > >
> > > > I guess a central notice about an RfC would be appropriate.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Yaroslav
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:16 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems like there is a clear consensus to open an RfC on Meta
> about
> > > this,
> > > > > so we can safely move forward with it and close this thread.
> > > Otherwise, we
> > > > > will most likely keep up boggling our minds with the 20-per-cent
> > > metric and
> > > > > endlessly discuss how unfortunate is this for the global community
> > > when the
> > > > > only rational thing we can do is take action and save everyone's
> time.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you have any concluding remarks or comments regarding the RfC?
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Kiril
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:57 PM Ferdinando Traversa <
> > > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I’m against and sincerly I don’t trust this datas (80% agrees?
> Are
> > > you
> > > > > > kidding me? I’ve seen the meta discussion). I think a Meta CLEAR
> > > VOTE as
> > > > > > suggested here is the best way. Imposing a change like this is a
> > > wrong
> > > > > > decision.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Il giorno 6 set 2019, alle ore 05:49, Zack McCune <
> > > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > ha scritto:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> > > process
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group,
> or
> > > watch
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I
> am
> > > > > pleased
> > > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement
> brand
> > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > [1].
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > > contributors
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   1.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   Reducing confusion
> > > > > > >   2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   Protecting reputation
> > > > > > >   3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   Supporting sister projects
> > > > > > >   4.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > > >   5.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   Supporting movement growth
> > > > > > >   6.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   The process of change
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You
> will
> > > see
> > > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> > > indication
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each
> > > theme.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that
> across
> > > our
> > > > > > wide
> > > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common
> (and a
> > > sign
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created
> “polarity
> > > maps”
> > > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments
> coexist in
> > > > > > tension
> > > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very
> thoughtful
> > > and
> > > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s
> branding
> > > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> > > assessing
> > > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> > > Education
> > > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > > discussions
> > > > > > during
> > > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
> > > Lappen,
> > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive
> parts
> > > of
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of
> affiliates
> > > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering
> your
> > > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and
> general
> > > > > appetite
> > > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe
> that
> > > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> > > precisely
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have
> shared
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of
> Trustees,
> > > who
> > > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on
> formal
> > > brand
> > > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
> > > OPT-IN for
> > > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a
> group
> > > of
> > > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during
> this
> > > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
> > > invite
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to
> host
> > > this
> > > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > > discussions and
> > > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you
> do not
> > > > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> > > happening
> > > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking
> comments
> > > left
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important
> ideas
> > > and
> > > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> > > shared
> > > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > > > approximately
> > > > > > 6
> > > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing
> lists,
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you
> are
> > > most
> > > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the
> power to
> > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zack
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and
> click
> > > the
> > > > > gray
> > > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be
> able
> > > to
> > > > > see
> > > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss
> > > Space
> > > > > > main
> > > > > > > page.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [4]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Effe iets anders
In reply to this post by Isaac Olatunde
Now imagine trying to explain the difference between a chapter, the
Foundation and the community when they have the same name...

Lodewijk

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 1:41 PM Isaac Olatunde <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> We sometimes spend several minutes trying to explain to potentials partners
> the difference between Wikipedia and Wikimedia and the relationship between
> them.
>
> In most cases we just use "Wikipedia" so as to not confuse them.
>
> Of course some people would share an opposing view for many reasons but I
> do think this rebranding is important.
>
> Regards
>
> Isaac
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 9:29 PM Strainu <[hidden email] wrote:
>
> > Pe vineri, 6 septembrie 2019, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> a
> > scris:
> >
> > > Yet another potentially good idea from the Foundation killed by the
> usual
> > > atrocious style of stakeholder management. No benefits framed for the
> > > community,
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > no indication that this change is coming from the bottom up,
> >
> >
> > Huh? Have you seriously never seen people asking the difference between
> > Wikipedia and Wikimedia or wiki(m|p) edians complaining about how hard it
> > is to explain that difference?
> >
> > This change is very much a bottom up one, even if it is pushed by the WMF
> > using corporate procedures rather than by the community using an RfC.
> >
> >
> >
> > > no
> > > assurance that this change happens or not based on the results of the
> > > consultation.
> >
> >
> > I would say that it was pretty clear the change will happen :)
> >
> > Strainu
> >
> > >
> > > You can't figure out the benefits to the community - your key
> stakeholder
> > > group - entirely as part of the consultation. You need to frame the
> > > consultation as figuring out how to achieve pre-identified benefits to
> > your
> > > stakeholders in the optimal way. You should also try to get buy-in from
> > key
> > > community groups *before* you start consulting, and use them as part of
> > the
> > > consultation, so it stops being Foundation vs. the community and turns
> > into
> > > the Foundation collaboratively supporting community-led ideas.
> > >
> > > It pains me to see this being done poorly, time and time again.
> > >
> > > Adrian Raddatz
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate -
> I
> > > > believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with
> this
> > > fit
> > > > of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation".
> > > >
> > > > It's one after another, and never stops.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Paulo
> > > >
> > > > Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia sexta, 6/09/2019
> > > à(s)
> > > > 18:25:
> > > >
> > > > > I agree with Fae. I strongly oppose the proposal, and I somehow
> used
> > to
> > > > > assume that our opinion would be asked in a structured way.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Yaroslav
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:03 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from
> > all
> > > > > > the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond
> > with
> > > > > > a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Something along the lines of:
> > > > > > "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and
> they
> > > > > > recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word
> > "Wikipedia"
> > > > > > and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons"
> to
> > > > > > ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the
> > WMF.
> > > > > > Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every
> > discussion
> > > > > > on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether
> > > "There
> > > > > > is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> > > > > > considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual.
> > Rather
> > > > > > than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness
> that
> > > > > > comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> > > > > > firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and
> less
> > > > > > credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from
> embedded
> > > > > > bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> > > > > > consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove
> the
> > > > > > spent money had impact and "value".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration"
> > > when
> > > > > > communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate
> > history
> > > > > > and gives the impression that you are quoting views from
> > > collaborators
> > > > > > rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Fae
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree with Pine.
> > > > > > > There is a majority of people who actually oppose the
> rebranding
> > > > > > > proposition.
> > > > > > > I don't quite understand why this is still going forward
> (except
> > > that
> > > > > it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards -
> but
> > > it
> > > > is
> > > > > > > sometimes necessary).
> > > > > > > Have other options even been considered?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -speaking in my own name here-
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Diane
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello Zack,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you for the report on Meta.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is
> > > > > > considerable
> > > > > > > > support for the brand proposal and general appetite to
> improve
> > > our
> > > > > > > > movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to
> > omit
> > > is
> > > > > > that,
> > > > > > > > according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable
> > > > > opposition
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the rebranding proposal.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having
> > > > > > "considerable
> > > > > > > > support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what
> > appears
> > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > considerable opposition?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta
> displays
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > measure community and affiliate support or opposition
> regarding
> > > the
> > > > > > > > rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and
> > two
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was
> using
> > > > those
> > > > > > > > measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition
> > > regarding
> > > > > the
> > > > > > RfC,
> > > > > > > > I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as
> > > declined.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <
> [hidden email]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN
> design
> > > > > > process for
> > > > > > > > > movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion
> > group,
> > > or
> > > > > > watch
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens
> of
> > > > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and
> Meta-Wiki,
> > I
> > > am
> > > > > > pleased
> > > > > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030
> movement
> > > > brand
> > > > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > > > [1].
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > > > > > contributors and
> > > > > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    1.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Reducing confusion
> > > > > > > > >    2.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Protecting reputation
> > > > > > > > >    3.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Supporting sister projects
> > > > > > > > >    4.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > > > > >    5.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Supporting movement growth
> > > > > > > > >    6.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    The process of change
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2].
> You
> > > > will
> > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a
> rough
> > > > > > indication
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to
> > each
> > > > > theme.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that
> > > > across
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > wide
> > > > > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common
> > > (and a
> > > > > > sign of
> > > > > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created
> > > “polarity
> > > > > > maps”
> > > > > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments
> > > coexist
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > tension
> > > > > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very
> > > > thoughtful
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s
> > > branding
> > > > > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria”
> for
> > > > > > assessing
> > > > > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf,
> Wikipedia
> > > > > > Education
> > > > > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > > > > discussions
> > > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues
> > Elena
> > > > > > Lappen,
> > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive
> > > parts
> > > > > of
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of
> > > affiliates
> > > > > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and
> offering
> > > > your
> > > > > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and
> > > general
> > > > > > appetite
> > > > > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we
> > believe
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance
> for
> > > > > > precisely
> > > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have
> > > > shared
> > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of
> > > Trustees,
> > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on
> > > formal
> > > > > > brand
> > > > > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will
> > use
> > > > > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will
> be
> > > > OPT-IN
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a
> > > group
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand
> > during
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered,
> and
> > we
> > > > > > invite
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space
> to
> > > host
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > > > discussions
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If
> you
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will
> be
> > > > > > happening
> > > > > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking
> > > > comments
> > > > > > left
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all
> important
> > > > ideas
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will
> be
> > > > > shared
> > > > > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > > > > approximately
> > > > > > > > 6
> > > > > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to
> mailing
> > > > lists,
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where
> > you
> > > > are
> > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the
> > > power
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >  Zack
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-
> > > with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > > brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and
> > > click
> > > > > the
> > > > > > gray
> > > > > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will
> be
> > > able
> > > > > to
> > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the
> > Discuss
> > > > > Space
> > > > > > > > main
> > > > > > > > > page.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [4]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_
> > > brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> and
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > > > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Pine W
 I too think that an RfC is a good option here. I suggest having multiple
questions in the RfC. Questions could include, "What should the
organization that is currently known as the Wikimedia Foundation be
named?", "Should there be a unifying brand for the online projects such as
Wikipedia, Wikidata, and Wikimedia Commons?", "If there is a unifying brand
for the online projects then what should it be?", "Should there be a
unifying brand for affiliates?", and "If there is a unifying brand for
affiliates then what should it be?"

Overall I think that the report on Meta
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results>
makes for good reading as background information for an RfC.

I want to caution against trying to make too many big decisions at once.
There is already a strategy process underway which has consumed a
considerable number of volunteer hours, and the community has precious
little capacity relative to normal operational demands without this ongoing
strategy process being piled on top of everything else that people want the
community to do. There seems to be infinite demand for free skilled labor,
but a finite supply of that same labor. I encourage both WMF and the
community to think carefully about which questions to prioritize so that we
are not all overstretched and a significant number of problems slip through
the cracks because collectively there were not adequate human resources to
thoughtfully address so many questions in a narrow period of time and
develop consensus regarding how to move forward.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Yair Rand
The broad proposal was clearly rejected. The community has not authorized
the Wikimedia Foundation to let any organization speak under Wikipedia's
name. If a formal RfC is to be held to make a final decision (perhaps with
the question subdivided, per Pine), I recommend delaying it for a while so
we might have a chance for some respite from permanent crisis mode.

The summary, in my opinion, is not adequate, and skips many of the most
significant arguments. (The talk page itself skips some, after the WMF had
a large portion of the talk page moved to a different page, including a
string of "strong oppose"s. Those who participated in the removed sections
were not counted in the WMF's count, for some reason.)

I do not understand what is going on within the Foundation regarding KPIs,
but I get the impression that groups were required to establish metrics of
some kind, without any actual oversight on how those metrics would work.
Thus, we get things like the branding proposal's "anything less than 1800
users posting statements in opposition will be considered strong support,
1800-2700 will be considered substantial support, 2700-3600 opposed will be
considered moderate support". Similar things have been happening elsewhere,
eg, for the WMF's "Space" project. (Speaking of which, holding a discussion
on a private off-wiki forum is not a valid method of community decision
making, for branding or otherwise.)

-- Yair Rand



‫בתאריך שבת, 7 בספט׳ 2019 ב-20:54 מאת ‪Pine W‬‏ <‪[hidden email]‬‏>:‬

>  I too think that an RfC is a good option here. I suggest having multiple
> questions in the RfC. Questions could include, "What should the
> organization that is currently known as the Wikimedia Foundation be
> named?", "Should there be a unifying brand for the online projects such as
> Wikipedia, Wikidata, and Wikimedia Commons?", "If there is a unifying brand
> for the online projects then what should it be?", "Should there be a
> unifying brand for affiliates?", and "If there is a unifying brand for
> affiliates then what should it be?"
>
> Overall I think that the report on Meta
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> >
> makes for good reading as background information for an RfC.
>
> I want to caution against trying to make too many big decisions at once.
> There is already a strategy process underway which has consumed a
> considerable number of volunteer hours, and the community has precious
> little capacity relative to normal operational demands without this ongoing
> strategy process being piled on top of everything else that people want the
> community to do. There seems to be infinite demand for free skilled labor,
> but a finite supply of that same labor. I encourage both WMF and the
> community to think carefully about which questions to prioritize so that we
> are not all overstretched and a significant number of problems slip through
> the cracks because collectively there were not adequate human resources to
> thoughtfully address so many questions in a narrow period of time and
> develop consensus regarding how to move forward.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Pine W
It crosses my mind that I would think that some of the WMF office staff
would also be getting tired of crisis, conflict, and unwelcome surprises.
These types of problems are unlikely to ever be fully prevented, but I
would think that the parade of difficulties in the past few months would
also be testing the patience of at least some people inside of WMF who
might like to not have a new earthquake to deal with on what seems like a
biweekly basis.

Pine

( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )




On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 17:59 Yair Rand <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The broad proposal was clearly rejected. The community has not authorized
> the Wikimedia Foundation to let any organization speak under Wikipedia's
> name. If a formal RfC is to be held to make a final decision (perhaps with
> the question subdivided, per Pine), I recommend delaying it for a while so
> we might have a chance for some respite from permanent crisis mode.
>
> The summary, in my opinion, is not adequate, and skips many of the most
> significant arguments. (The talk page itself skips some, after the WMF had
> a large portion of the talk page moved to a different page, including a
> string of "strong oppose"s. Those who participated in the removed sections
> were not counted in the WMF's count, for some reason.)
>
> I do not understand what is going on within the Foundation regarding KPIs,
> but I get the impression that groups were required to establish metrics of
> some kind, without any actual oversight on how those metrics would work.
> Thus, we get things like the branding proposal's "anything less than 1800
> users posting statements in opposition will be considered strong support,
> 1800-2700 will be considered substantial support, 2700-3600 opposed will be
> considered moderate support". Similar things have been happening elsewhere,
> eg, for the WMF's "Space" project. (Speaking of which, holding a discussion
> on a private off-wiki forum is not a valid method of community decision
> making, for branding or otherwise.)
>
> -- Yair Rand
>
>
>
> ‫בתאריך שבת, 7 בספט׳ 2019 ב-20:54 מאת ‪Pine W‬‏ <‪[hidden email]‬‏>:‬
>
> >  I too think that an RfC is a good option here. I suggest having multiple
> > questions in the RfC. Questions could include, "What should the
> > organization that is currently known as the Wikimedia Foundation be
> > named?", "Should there be a unifying brand for the online projects such
> as
> > Wikipedia, Wikidata, and Wikimedia Commons?", "If there is a unifying
> brand
> > for the online projects then what should it be?", "Should there be a
> > unifying brand for affiliates?", and "If there is a unifying brand for
> > affiliates then what should it be?"
> >
> > Overall I think that the report on Meta
> > <
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > >
> > makes for good reading as background information for an RfC.
> >
> > I want to caution against trying to make too many big decisions at once.
> > There is already a strategy process underway which has consumed a
> > considerable number of volunteer hours, and the community has precious
> > little capacity relative to normal operational demands without this
> ongoing
> > strategy process being piled on top of everything else that people want
> the
> > community to do. There seems to be infinite demand for free skilled
> labor,
> > but a finite supply of that same labor. I encourage both WMF and the
> > community to think carefully about which questions to prioritize so that
> we
> > are not all overstretched and a significant number of problems slip
> through
> > the cracks because collectively there were not adequate human resources
> to
> > thoughtfully address so many questions in a narrow period of time and
> > develop consensus regarding how to move forward.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Paulo Santos Perneta
I only started following WMF stuff more closely around 2 years ago, but I
don't remember it being this permanent state of crisis as it is now, with
an ever increasing - now, apparently at an accelerating pace too -
detachment from the onwiki communities.
This is tiresome and distracting for those of us who are volunteers at the
Wikimedia projects, but it's certainly painful too for the WMF staff.

What's going on with the WMF?

Paulo

Pine W <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 9/09/2019 à(s) 07:59:

> It crosses my mind that I would think that some of the WMF office staff
> would also be getting tired of crisis, conflict, and unwelcome surprises.
> These types of problems are unlikely to ever be fully prevented, but I
> would think that the parade of difficulties in the past few months would
> also be testing the patience of at least some people inside of WMF who
> might like to not have a new earthquake to deal with on what seems like a
> biweekly basis.
>
> Pine
>
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 17:59 Yair Rand <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > The broad proposal was clearly rejected. The community has not authorized
> > the Wikimedia Foundation to let any organization speak under Wikipedia's
> > name. If a formal RfC is to be held to make a final decision (perhaps
> with
> > the question subdivided, per Pine), I recommend delaying it for a while
> so
> > we might have a chance for some respite from permanent crisis mode.
> >
> > The summary, in my opinion, is not adequate, and skips many of the most
> > significant arguments. (The talk page itself skips some, after the WMF
> had
> > a large portion of the talk page moved to a different page, including a
> > string of "strong oppose"s. Those who participated in the removed
> sections
> > were not counted in the WMF's count, for some reason.)
> >
> > I do not understand what is going on within the Foundation regarding
> KPIs,
> > but I get the impression that groups were required to establish metrics
> of
> > some kind, without any actual oversight on how those metrics would work.
> > Thus, we get things like the branding proposal's "anything less than 1800
> > users posting statements in opposition will be considered strong support,
> > 1800-2700 will be considered substantial support, 2700-3600 opposed will
> be
> > considered moderate support". Similar things have been happening
> elsewhere,
> > eg, for the WMF's "Space" project. (Speaking of which, holding a
> discussion
> > on a private off-wiki forum is not a valid method of community decision
> > making, for branding or otherwise.)
> >
> > -- Yair Rand
> >
> >
> >
> > ‫בתאריך שבת, 7 בספט׳ 2019 ב-20:54 מאת ‪Pine W‬‏ <‪[hidden email]
> ‬‏>:‬
> >
> > >  I too think that an RfC is a good option here. I suggest having
> multiple
> > > questions in the RfC. Questions could include, "What should the
> > > organization that is currently known as the Wikimedia Foundation be
> > > named?", "Should there be a unifying brand for the online projects such
> > as
> > > Wikipedia, Wikidata, and Wikimedia Commons?", "If there is a unifying
> > brand
> > > for the online projects then what should it be?", "Should there be a
> > > unifying brand for affiliates?", and "If there is a unifying brand for
> > > affiliates then what should it be?"
> > >
> > > Overall I think that the report on Meta
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > >
> > > makes for good reading as background information for an RfC.
> > >
> > > I want to caution against trying to make too many big decisions at
> once.
> > > There is already a strategy process underway which has consumed a
> > > considerable number of volunteer hours, and the community has precious
> > > little capacity relative to normal operational demands without this
> > ongoing
> > > strategy process being piled on top of everything else that people want
> > the
> > > community to do. There seems to be infinite demand for free skilled
> > labor,
> > > but a finite supply of that same labor. I encourage both WMF and the
> > > community to think carefully about which questions to prioritize so
> that
> > we
> > > are not all overstretched and a significant number of problems slip
> > through
> > > the cracks because collectively there were not adequate human resources
> > to
> > > thoughtfully address so many questions in a narrow period of time and
> > > develop consensus regarding how to move forward.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Adrian Raddatz
Their approach hasn't changed. There are maybe just more ongoing projects
than there were in the past. But yes, it can't be fun for anyone involved.

I briefly discussed some of this above, but I'll list a few options that
the WMF could take to make this process less consistently bad:
1. Determine benefits of any project to the editing and reading community.
If there are none, that may be fine, but consider balancing it out with a
concurrent project that is providing benefit to those communities. *Frame
any project in terms of the desired benefits*.
2. Find allies and adopt a joint approach. If you are running projects that
will benefit some part of the editing and reading community, find people
who would benefit, involve them in the entire project lifecycle, and
utilize them in communications and consultations to move the conversation
away from community vs. WMF.
3. Engage much earlier than is currently done. Rather than always bringing
"solutions" to the community (that the community invariably doesn't like),
bring problems to the community and ask how these problems could be solved.
You can even structure the problem statement and questions in a way that
will get at your ideal solution. Again though, it depends on whether this
is actually a problem for the editing/reading communities.
4. Do more for your primary stakeholders! Every area of the projects has
outstanding technical and social issues that the communities want solved
and that haven't been worked on for years. In my area of interest, we have
been asking for better CAPTCHAs for years. Dial back the grants program a
bit and use the money to provide services for the communities that you are
supposed to be serving. If you do this, then the community appetite to
accept some WMF-initiated changes will be greater once we think that you
are actually on our side.
5. Bring the community, or select community members, into project
governance structures. Make a steering committee, host elections for
community seats, use a combination appointed/elected model, etc for major
program areas. This is what the community-selected board seats should do,
except the organization is too large for the board to function in that way.

Adrian Raddatz


On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 7:51 AM Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I only started following WMF stuff more closely around 2 years ago, but I
> don't remember it being this permanent state of crisis as it is now, with
> an ever increasing - now, apparently at an accelerating pace too -
> detachment from the onwiki communities.
> This is tiresome and distracting for those of us who are volunteers at the
> Wikimedia projects, but it's certainly painful too for the WMF staff.
>
> What's going on with the WMF?
>
> Paulo
>
> Pine W <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 9/09/2019 à(s)
> 07:59:
>
> > It crosses my mind that I would think that some of the WMF office staff
> > would also be getting tired of crisis, conflict, and unwelcome surprises.
> > These types of problems are unlikely to ever be fully prevented, but I
> > would think that the parade of difficulties in the past few months would
> > also be testing the patience of at least some people inside of WMF who
> > might like to not have a new earthquake to deal with on what seems like a
> > biweekly basis.
> >
> > Pine
> >
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 17:59 Yair Rand <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > The broad proposal was clearly rejected. The community has not
> authorized
> > > the Wikimedia Foundation to let any organization speak under
> Wikipedia's
> > > name. If a formal RfC is to be held to make a final decision (perhaps
> > with
> > > the question subdivided, per Pine), I recommend delaying it for a while
> > so
> > > we might have a chance for some respite from permanent crisis mode.
> > >
> > > The summary, in my opinion, is not adequate, and skips many of the most
> > > significant arguments. (The talk page itself skips some, after the WMF
> > had
> > > a large portion of the talk page moved to a different page, including a
> > > string of "strong oppose"s. Those who participated in the removed
> > sections
> > > were not counted in the WMF's count, for some reason.)
> > >
> > > I do not understand what is going on within the Foundation regarding
> > KPIs,
> > > but I get the impression that groups were required to establish metrics
> > of
> > > some kind, without any actual oversight on how those metrics would
> work.
> > > Thus, we get things like the branding proposal's "anything less than
> 1800
> > > users posting statements in opposition will be considered strong
> support,
> > > 1800-2700 will be considered substantial support, 2700-3600 opposed
> will
> > be
> > > considered moderate support". Similar things have been happening
> > elsewhere,
> > > eg, for the WMF's "Space" project. (Speaking of which, holding a
> > discussion
> > > on a private off-wiki forum is not a valid method of community decision
> > > making, for branding or otherwise.)
> > >
> > > -- Yair Rand
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ‫בתאריך שבת, 7 בספט׳ 2019 ב-20:54 מאת ‪Pine W‬‏ <‪[hidden email]
> > ‬‏>:‬
> > >
> > > >  I too think that an RfC is a good option here. I suggest having
> > multiple
> > > > questions in the RfC. Questions could include, "What should the
> > > > organization that is currently known as the Wikimedia Foundation be
> > > > named?", "Should there be a unifying brand for the online projects
> such
> > > as
> > > > Wikipedia, Wikidata, and Wikimedia Commons?", "If there is a unifying
> > > brand
> > > > for the online projects then what should it be?", "Should there be a
> > > > unifying brand for affiliates?", and "If there is a unifying brand
> for
> > > > affiliates then what should it be?"
> > > >
> > > > Overall I think that the report on Meta
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > >
> > > > makes for good reading as background information for an RfC.
> > > >
> > > > I want to caution against trying to make too many big decisions at
> > once.
> > > > There is already a strategy process underway which has consumed a
> > > > considerable number of volunteer hours, and the community has
> precious
> > > > little capacity relative to normal operational demands without this
> > > ongoing
> > > > strategy process being piled on top of everything else that people
> want
> > > the
> > > > community to do. There seems to be infinite demand for free skilled
> > > labor,
> > > > but a finite supply of that same labor. I encourage both WMF and the
> > > > community to think carefully about which questions to prioritize so
> > that
> > > we
> > > > are not all overstretched and a significant number of problems slip
> > > through
> > > > the cracks because collectively there were not adequate human
> resources
> > > to
> > > > thoughtfully address so many questions in a narrow period of time and
> > > > develop consensus regarding how to move forward.
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Andrew Lih
In reply to this post by Ferdinando Traversa
Folks, it's not clear this email thread is going to register at all as
feedback for this process.

The only recognized feedback mechanisms according to the original mail are
the following:

1. Wikimedia Space group - https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network
Currently 13 members

2.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review
No new conversations

3.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
A dialogue that has been started to discuss the problems of the KPIs and
metrics.

I'd highly suggest if you want to make your feedback count, you go to these
venues.

-Andrew



On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 8:32 PM Ferdinando Traversa <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> It’ll be a very very important RFC. More than elections, it’s about all
> global identity.
> CentralNotice is appropriate.
>
> Ferdinando
>
> > Il giorno 7 set 2019, alle ore 22:06, David Gerard <[hidden email]>
> ha scritto:
> >
> > I concur, it sounds sensible.
> >
> > (I'll note, I'm not actually against the name change proposal - but
> > it's got to be presented to the community properly.)
> >
> > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 20:50, Kiril Simeonovski
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> HI David,
> >>
> >> Yes, it stands to reason to announce on all wikis in a similar way as
> the
> >> announcements about board or steward elections.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Kiril
> >>
> >>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 9:46 PM David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On all wikis?
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 19:19, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Right.
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess a central notice about an RfC would be appropriate.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Yaroslav
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:16 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> >>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It seems like there is a clear consensus to open an RfC on Meta about
> >>> this,
> >>>>> so we can safely move forward with it and close this thread.
> >>> Otherwise, we
> >>>>> will most likely keep up boggling our minds with the 20-per-cent
> >>> metric and
> >>>>> endlessly discuss how unfortunate is this for the global community
> >>> when the
> >>>>> only rational thing we can do is take action and save everyone's
> time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you have any concluding remarks or comments regarding the RfC?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>> Kiril
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:57 PM Ferdinando Traversa <
> >>>>> [hidden email]>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I’m against and sincerly I don’t trust this datas (80% agrees? Are
> >>> you
> >>>>>> kidding me? I’ve seen the meta discussion). I think a Meta CLEAR
> >>> VOTE as
> >>>>>> suggested here is the best way. Imposing a change like this is a
> >>> wrong
> >>>>>> decision.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Il giorno 6 set 2019, alle ore 05:49, Zack McCune <
> >>>>> [hidden email]>
> >>>>>> ha scritto:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> >>> process
> >>>>> for
> >>>>>>> movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or
> >>> watch
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> updates on Meta-Wiki.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello all,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> >>>>> affiliates,
> >>>>>>> several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> >>>>> pleased
> >>>>>>> to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> >>>>>> strategy
> >>>>>>> [1].
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> >>> contributors
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>>> 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  1.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  Reducing confusion
> >>>>>>>  2.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  Protecting reputation
> >>>>>>>  3.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  Supporting sister projects
> >>>>>>>  4.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> >>>>>>>  5.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  Supporting movement growth
> >>>>>>>  6.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  The process of change
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will
> >>> see
> >>>>>>> examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> >>> indication
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> how many of the comments that we received were related to each
> >>> theme.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across
> >>> our
> >>>>>> wide
> >>>>>>> movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a
> >>> sign
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>> health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity
> >>> maps”
> >>>>>>> which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> >>>>>> tension
> >>>>>>> with each other.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful
> >>> and
> >>>>>>> useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> >>>>>>> successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> >>> assessing
> >>>>>>> branding systems.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> == Thanks ==
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> >>> Education
> >>>>>>> Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> >>> discussions
> >>>>>> during
> >>>>>>> their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
> >>> Lappen,
> >>>>>>> Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts
> >>> of
> >>>>> this
> >>>>>>> consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> >>>>>>> commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> >>>>>>> perspectives and insights.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> == Next steps and staying involved ==
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> >>>>> appetite
> >>>>>>> to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> >>>>>>> critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> >>> precisely
> >>>>>> what
> >>>>>>> branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared
> >>>>> these
> >>>>>>> insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees,
> >>> who
> >>>>>>> approved continuing these efforts.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal
> >>> brand
> >>>>>>> naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> >>>>>> “Wikipedia”
> >>>>>>> as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
> >>> OPT-IN for
> >>>>>>> affiliates.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group
> >>> of
> >>>>>>> volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> >>>>>>> consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
> >>> invite
> >>>>>> you
> >>>>>>> to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host
> >>> this
> >>>>>>> discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> >>> discussions and
> >>>>>>> room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not
> >>>>> want
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> >>> happening
> >>>>>>> within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments
> >>> left
> >>>>>> on
> >>>>>>> the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas
> >>> and
> >>>>>>> updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> >>> shared
> >>>>>>> publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The development of this proposed identity system will take
> >>>>> approximately
> >>>>>> 6
> >>>>>>> months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> >>>>>>> Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are
> >>> most
> >>>>>>> comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> >>>>>> decide
> >>>>>>> if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yours,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Zack
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [2]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click
> >>> the
> >>>>> gray
> >>>>>>> "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able
> >>> to
> >>>>> see
> >>>>>>> and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss
> >>> Space
> >>>>>> main
> >>>>>>> page.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [4]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Zack McCune (he/him)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Director of Brand
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>>>>>> Unsubscribe:
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>>>>> Unsubscribe:
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>>>> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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--
-Andrew Lih
Author of The Wikipedia Revolution
US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016)
Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015)
Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM
Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
University, Columbia University, USC
---
Email: [hidden email]
WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

MZMcBride-2
Andrew Lih wrote:
>Folks, it's not clear this email thread is going to register at all as
>feedback for this process.

Hi.

I haven't been following this discussion too closely, but my sense is that
a few people within Wikimedia Foundation Inc. have already decided on an
outcome and are seeking "support" and "feedback" to legitimize and
validate that predetermined decision.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Ferdinando Traversa
In reply to this post by Andrew Lih

I left a message, please write you too so we can stop this (I listen only to channels that will say that I’m right lalalalaalalla… this seems the behavior of WMF):
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results#RFC

Regards,


Ferdinando





On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 PM , Andrew Lih wrote:

> Folks, it's not clear this email thread is going to register at all as
> feedback for this process.
>  
> The only recognized feedback mechanisms according to the original mail are
> the following:
>  
> 1. Wikimedia Space group - https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network
> Currently 13 members
>  
> 2.
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review
> No new conversations
>  
> 3.
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> A dialogue that has been started to discuss the problems of the KPIs and
> metrics.
>  
> I'd highly suggest if you want to make your feedback count, you go to these
> venues.
>  
> -Andrew
>  
>  
>  
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 8:32 PM Ferdinando Traversa<[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>  
> > It’ll be a very very important RFC. More than elections, it’s about all
> > global identity.
> > CentralNotice is appropriate.
> >  
> > Ferdinando
> >  
> > > Il giorno 7 set 2019, alle ore 22:06, David Gerard<[hidden email]>
> > ha scritto:
> > >  
> > > I concur, it sounds sensible.
> > >  
> > > (I'll note, I'm not actually against the name change proposal - but
> > > it's got to be presented to the community properly.)
> > >  
> > > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 20:50, Kiril Simeonovski
> > > <[hidden email]>wrote:
> > > >  
> > > > HI David,
> > > >  
> > > > Yes, it stands to reason to announce on all wikis in a similar way as
> > the
> > > > announcements about board or steward elections.
> > > >  
> > > > Best,
> > > > Kiril
> > > >  
> > > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 9:46 PM David Gerard<[hidden email]>wrote:
> > > > >  
> > > > > On all wikis?
> > > > >  
> > > > > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 19:19, Yaroslav Blanter<[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >  
> > > > > > Right.
> > > > > >  
> > > > > > I guess a central notice about an RfC would be appropriate.
> > > > > >  
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > Yaroslav
> > > > > >  
> > > > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:16 PM Kiril Simeonovski<
> > > > > > [hidden email]>wrote:
> > > > > >  
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > It seems like there is a clear consensus to open an RfC on Meta about
> > > > > this,
> > > > > > > so we can safely move forward with it and close this thread.
> > > > > Otherwise, we
> > > > > > > will most likely keep up boggling our minds with the 20-per-cent
> > > > > metric and
> > > > > > > endlessly discuss how unfortunate is this for the global community
> > > > > when the
> > > > > > > only rational thing we can do is take action and save everyone's
> > time.
> > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > Do you have any concluding remarks or comments regarding the RfC?
> > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > Kiril
> > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:57 PM Ferdinando Traversa<
> > > > > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > I’m against and sincerly I don’t trust this datas (80% agrees? Are
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > > kidding me? I’ve seen the meta discussion). I think a Meta CLEAR
> > > > > VOTE as
> > > > > > > > suggested here is the best way. Imposing a change like this is a
> > > > > wrong
> > > > > > > > decision.
> > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > Regards.
> > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Il giorno 6 set 2019, alle ore 05:49, Zack McCune<
> > > > > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > > > ha scritto:
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> > > > > process
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > movement branding. Please join the in-depth discussion group, or
> > > > > watch
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > > > > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > > > > several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> > > > > > > pleased
> > > > > > > > > to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
> > > > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > > > [1].
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > > > > contributors
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > 1.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Reducing confusion
> > > > > > > > > 2.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Protecting reputation
> > > > > > > > > 3.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Supporting sister projects
> > > > > > > > > 4.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > > > > > > > > 5.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Supporting movement growth
> > > > > > > > > 6.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > The process of change
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will
> > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> > > > > indication
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > how many of the comments that we received were related to each
> > > > > theme.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > > wide
> > > > > > > > > movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a
> > > > > sign
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity
> > > > > maps”
> > > > > > > > > which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
> > > > > > > > tension
> > > > > > > > > with each other.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > > > > > > > > successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> > > > > assessing
> > > > > > > > > branding systems.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > == Thanks ==
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> > > > > Education
> > > > > > > > > Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > > > > discussions
> > > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > > their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
> > > > > Lappen,
> > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > > > > > > > > commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
> > > > > > > > > perspectives and insights.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> > > > > > > appetite
> > > > > > > > > to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
> > > > > > > > > critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> > > > > precisely
> > > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared
> > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees,
> > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > approved continuing these efforts.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal
> > > > > brand
> > > > > > > > > naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > > > > > > > “Wikipedia”
> > > > > > > > > as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
> > > > > OPT-IN for
> > > > > > > > > affiliates.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
> > > > > > > > > consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
> > > > > invite
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > > > > discussions and
> > > > > > > > > room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not
> > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> > > > > happening
> > > > > > > > > within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments
> > > > > left
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> > > > > shared
> > > > > > > > > publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > > > > > > approximately
> > > > > > > > 6
> > > > > > > > > months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are
> > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
> > > > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > > > if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Zack
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > [1]
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > [2]
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > gray
> > > > > > > > > "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss
> > > > > Space
> > > > > > > > main
> > > > > > > > > page.
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > [4]
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Zack McCune (he/him)
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Director of Brand
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation<https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >  
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Dan Szymborski
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
This is largely my feeling as well. If you look at one of Andrew's links:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/brainstorm


You'll see some quite vigorous opposition to the name change and robust
support for explicitly not changing the name.

Fast-forward more than six months and now 20% of people have to actively
oppose something or it's supported, even though there is no way that you'll
get a response rate on *anything* *ever* to be 20% on a large email list.

On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 12:48 PM MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Andrew Lih wrote:
> >Folks, it's not clear this email thread is going to register at all as
> >feedback for this process.
>
> Hi.
>
> I haven't been following this discussion too closely, but my sense is that
> a few people within Wikimedia Foundation Inc. have already decided on an
> outcome and are seeking "support" and "feedback" to legitimize and
> validate that predetermined decision.
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Mike Peel
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2


> On 12 Sep 2019, at 17:47, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Andrew Lih wrote:
>> Folks, it's not clear this email thread is going to register at all as
>> feedback for this process.
>
> Hi.
>
> I haven't been following this discussion too closely, but my sense is that
> a few people within Wikimedia Foundation Inc. have already decided on an
> outcome and are seeking "support" and "feedback" to legitimize and
> validate that predetermined decision.

Hi.

I haven't been following this discussion too closely, but my sense is that
a few people on this mailing list have already decided on an
outcome and are seeking “oppose" and "feedback" to legitimize and
validate that predetermined decision.

Mike
(Seriously - please give more constructive feedback, and engage in conversation, everyone's working towards the same goals here.)
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