[Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Ad Huikeshoven-3
Hi Andrew,

There has already been an extensive consultation in the first half year of
2019. Zack presented the outcome to the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia
Foundation August 14th in Stockholm. Het got a go for a next phase. The
current dialogue is about implementation details, as far as I understand
the status of the current process.

Regards,

Ad

Op do 12 sep. 2019 17:14 schreef Andrew Lih <[hidden email]>:

> Folks, it's not clear this email thread is going to register at all as
> feedback for this process.
>
> The only recognized feedback mechanisms according to the original mail are
> the following:
>
> 1. Wikimedia Space group -
> https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network
> Currently 13 members
>
> 2.
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review
> No new conversations
>
> 3.
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> A dialogue that has been started to discuss the problems of the KPIs and
> metrics.
>
> I'd highly suggest if you want to make your feedback count, you go to these
> venues.
>
> -Andrew
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 8:32 PM Ferdinando Traversa <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > It’ll be a very very important RFC. More than elections, it’s about all
> > global identity.
> > CentralNotice is appropriate.
> >
> > Ferdinando
> >
> > > Il giorno 7 set 2019, alle ore 22:06, David Gerard <[hidden email]>
> > ha scritto:
> > >
> > > I concur, it sounds sensible.
> > >
> > > (I'll note, I'm not actually against the name change proposal - but
> > > it's got to be presented to the community properly.)
> > >
> > > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 20:50, Kiril Simeonovski
> > > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> HI David,
> > >>
> > >> Yes, it stands to reason to announce on all wikis in a similar way as
> > the
> > >> announcements about board or steward elections.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >> Kiril
> > >>
> > >>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 9:46 PM David Gerard <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> On all wikis?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 19:19, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Right.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I guess a central notice about an RfC would be appropriate.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cheers
> > >>>> Yaroslav
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:16 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > >>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> It seems like there is a clear consensus to open an RfC on Meta
> about
> > >>> this,
> > >>>>> so we can safely move forward with it and close this thread.
> > >>> Otherwise, we
> > >>>>> will most likely keep up boggling our minds with the 20-per-cent
> > >>> metric and
> > >>>>> endlessly discuss how unfortunate is this for the global community
> > >>> when the
> > >>>>> only rational thing we can do is take action and save everyone's
> > time.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Do you have any concluding remarks or comments regarding the RfC?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Best regards,
> > >>>>> Kiril
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:57 PM Ferdinando Traversa <
> > >>>>> [hidden email]>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> I’m against and sincerly I don’t trust this datas (80% agrees? Are
> > >>> you
> > >>>>>> kidding me? I’ve seen the meta discussion). I think a Meta CLEAR
> > >>> VOTE as
> > >>>>>> suggested here is the best way. Imposing a change like this is a
> > >>> wrong
> > >>>>>> decision.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Il giorno 6 set 2019, alle ore 05:49, Zack McCune <
> > >>>>> [hidden email]>
> > >>>>>> ha scritto:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design
> > >>> process
> > >>>>> for
> > >>>>>>> movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or
> > >>> watch
> > >>>>>> for
> > >>>>>>> updates on Meta-Wiki.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hello all,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of
> > >>>>> affiliates,
> > >>>>>>> several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am
> > >>>>> pleased
> > >>>>>>> to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement
> brand
> > >>>>>> strategy
> > >>>>>>> [1].
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual
> > >>> contributors
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>>>> 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  1.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  Reducing confusion
> > >>>>>>>  2.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  Protecting reputation
> > >>>>>>>  3.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  Supporting sister projects
> > >>>>>>>  4.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
> > >>>>>>>  5.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  Supporting movement growth
> > >>>>>>>  6.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  The process of change
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You
> will
> > >>> see
> > >>>>>>> examples of comments within each section, along with a rough
> > >>> indication
> > >>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>> how many of the comments that we received were related to each
> > >>> theme.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that
> across
> > >>> our
> > >>>>>> wide
> > >>>>>>> movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a
> > >>> sign
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>>>> health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity
> > >>> maps”
> > >>>>>>> which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist
> in
> > >>>>>> tension
> > >>>>>>> with each other.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very
> thoughtful
> > >>> and
> > >>>>>>> useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
> > >>>>>>> successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for
> > >>> assessing
> > >>>>>>> branding systems.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> == Thanks ==
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia
> > >>> Education
> > >>>>>>> Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold
> > >>> discussions
> > >>>>>> during
> > >>>>>>> their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena
> > >>> Lappen,
> > >>>>>>> Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts
> > >>> of
> > >>>>> this
> > >>>>>>> consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
> > >>>>>>> commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering
> your
> > >>>>>>> perspectives and insights.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> == Next steps and staying involved ==
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general
> > >>>>> appetite
> > >>>>>>> to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe
> that
> > >>>>>>> critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for
> > >>> precisely
> > >>>>>> what
> > >>>>>>> branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have
> shared
> > >>>>> these
> > >>>>>>> insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees,
> > >>> who
> > >>>>>>> approved continuing these efforts.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal
> > >>> brand
> > >>>>>>> naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
> > >>>>>> “Wikipedia”
> > >>>>>>> as the central reference point. The resulting system will be
> > >>> OPT-IN for
> > >>>>>>> affiliates.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group
> > >>> of
> > >>>>>>> volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during
> this
> > >>>>>>> consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we
> > >>> invite
> > >>>>>> you
> > >>>>>>> to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host
> > >>> this
> > >>>>>>> discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid
> > >>> discussions and
> > >>>>>>> room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do
> not
> > >>>>> want
> > >>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>> commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be
> > >>> happening
> > >>>>>>> within the brand network group, we will still be tracking
> comments
> > >>> left
> > >>>>>> on
> > >>>>>>> the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important
> ideas
> > >>> and
> > >>>>>>> updates originating from the brand network discussion will be
> > >>> shared
> > >>>>>>> publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> The development of this proposed identity system will take
> > >>>>> approximately
> > >>>>>> 6
> > >>>>>>> months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing
> lists,
> > >>>>>>> Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you
> are
> > >>> most
> > >>>>>>> comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power
> to
> > >>>>>> decide
> > >>>>>>> if/when they opt in to using the new system.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Yours,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Zack
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> [1]
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>
> >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> [2]
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click
> > >>> the
> > >>>>> gray
> > >>>>>>> "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able
> > >>> to
> > >>>>> see
> > >>>>>>> and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss
> > >>> Space
> > >>>>>> main
> > >>>>>>> page.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> [4]
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Zack McCune (he/him)
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Director of Brand
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > >>>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >>>>>>> Unsubscribe:
> > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > >>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> -Andrew Lih
> Author of The Wikipedia Revolution
> US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016)
> Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015)
> Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM
> Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
> University, Columbia University, USC
> ---
> Email: [hidden email]
> WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
> PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Aron Manning
In reply to this post by Mike Peel
On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 at 20:27, Mike Peel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Hi.
> >
> > I haven't been following this discussion too closely, but my sense is
> that
> > a few people within Wikimedia Foundation Inc. have already decided on an
> > outcome and are seeking "support" and "feedback" to legitimize and
> > validate that predetermined decision.
>
> Hi.
>
> I haven't been following this discussion too closely, but my sense is that
> a few people on this mailing list have already decided on an
> outcome and are seeking “oppose" and "feedback" to legitimize and
> validate that predetermined decision.
>
> Mike
> (Seriously - please give more constructive feedback, and engage in
> conversation, everyone's working towards the same goals here.)
>

Yes. If we could just put aside discussing people ad hominem, and instead
focus on *reasoning*,  also known as constructive feedback / criticism.
According to the original email that should happen on meta
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results>,
or on wikimedia space
<https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/t/community-feedback-and-next-steps-on-the-movement-brand-proposal/1218>
.

Aron
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Andrew Lih
In reply to this post by Ad Huikeshoven-3
On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 2:42 PM Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
> There has already been an extensive consultation in the first half year of
> 2019. Zack presented the outcome to the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia
> Foundation August 14th in Stockholm. Het got a go for a next phase. The
> current dialogue is about implementation details, as far as I understand
> the status of the current process.
>

Yes, but perhaps what folks may miss is that there is a fundamental
disconnect between the numbers as presented earlier in this thread versus
what has been seen in various forums and discussions.

To wit: one figure that is less than 1% and one that is much much greater
than 50%, both of which are trying to measure the same sentiment. That
should give us all pause about how legitimate the next steps may be,
regardless of which side one is on.

On-wiki discussion of this:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ACommunications%2FWikimedia_brands%2F2030_research_and_planning%2Fcommunity_review%2Fresults&type=revision&diff=19372447&oldid=19372300

-Andrew
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Ferdinando Traversa
In reply to this post by Mike Peel

I’m sorry but things can’t go like you would like to intend giving this ironic inversion because we don’t have possibility to decide anything. We’re only asking to listen all the community to do a very very important decision like this.



Un abbraccio,


Ferdinando





On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 PM , Mike Peel wrote:

>  
>  
> > On 12 Sep 2019, at 17:47, MZMcBride<[hidden email]>wrote:
> >  
> > Andrew Lih wrote:
> > > Folks, it's not clear this email thread is going to register at all as
> > > feedback for this process.
> >  
> > Hi.
> >  
> > I haven't been following this discussion too closely, but my sense is that
> > a few people within Wikimedia Foundation Inc. have already decided on an
> > outcome and are seeking "support" and "feedback" to legitimize and
> > validate that predetermined decision.
>  
> Hi.
>  
> I haven't been following this discussion too closely, but my sense is that
> a few people on this mailing list have already decided on an
> outcome and are seeking “oppose" and "feedback" to legitimize and
> validate that predetermined decision.
>  
> Mike
> (Seriously - please give more constructive feedback, and engage in conversation, everyone's working towards the same goals here.)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,<mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Mike Peel
Mike Peel wrote:
>I haven't been following this discussion too closely, but my sense is that
>a few people on this mailing list have already decided on an
>outcome and are seeking “oppose" and "feedback" to legitimize and
>validate that predetermined decision.
>
>Mike
>(Seriously - please give more constructive feedback, and engage in
>conversation, everyone's working towards the same goals here.)

I'm genuinely curious what you think a "Director of Brand" does. Other
than leading a rebranding effort, what does that role entail?

We're talking about the same organization that hired search engine
optimization consultants. For Wikipedia, a site with notoriously
incredible search engine results page placement. And even among the sleazy
underbelly of search engine optimization consultants, Wikimedia Foundation
Inc. partnered with a particularly bad group.

We're also talking about the same organization that unilaterally changed
its logo in a dramatic "fade to black".

Operating in good faith only works bidirectionally. When people are
spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and making bad decisions without
community consultation, much less community endorsement, it becomes clear
that at least one party is no longer acting in good faith.

So, no, I don't think everyone is working toward the same goals here.
Should we have a conversation about the neglected sister projects?
Absolutely. This isn't it.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

Mike Peel


> On 13 Sep 2019, at 06:03, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Mike Peel wrote:
>> I haven't been following this discussion too closely, but my sense is that
>> a few people on this mailing list have already decided on an
>> outcome and are seeking “oppose" and "feedback" to legitimize and
>> validate that predetermined decision.
>>
>> Mike
>> (Seriously - please give more constructive feedback, and engage in
>> conversation, everyone's working towards the same goals here.)
>
> I'm genuinely curious what you think a "Director of Brand" does. Other
> than leading a rebranding effort, what does that role entail?
>
> We're talking about the same organization that hired search engine
> optimization consultants. For Wikipedia, a site with notoriously
> incredible search engine results page placement. And even among the sleazy
> underbelly of search engine optimization consultants, Wikimedia Foundation
> Inc. partnered with a particularly bad group.
>
> We're also talking about the same organization that unilaterally changed
> its logo in a dramatic "fade to black".
>
> Operating in good faith only works bidirectionally. When people are
> spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and making bad decisions without
> community consultation, much less community endorsement, it becomes clear
> that at least one party is no longer acting in good faith.
>
> So, no, I don't think everyone is working toward the same goals here.
> Should we have a conversation about the neglected sister projects?
> Absolutely. This isn't it.

My “engage in conversation” comment was pointed in both directions - hopefully Wikimedians at the WMF will also comment on this thread? On Zack’s title, he describes his role as "I work to raise awareness and usage of Wikimedia projects around the world, expanding the global reach of free knowledge.” (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:ZMcCune_(WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:ZMcCune_(WMF)> ).

Thanks,
Mike
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