[Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

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[Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

John Erling Blad
Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content policies,
but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of the
smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial policies. It
takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.

Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be something
that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should simply be
able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies should be
localized if necessary.

Checking Meta I find
- https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
- https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view

I can't find anything like "Verifiability".

Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound baseline
policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those? Perhaps
with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?

Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original research"
diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be about
original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some projects
neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators point of
view"…

Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline policies
pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user pages,
so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects would have
more "ownership" of them.

The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
Wiktionary, etc).

Jeblad
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Tito Dutta
Hi,
Some works and study was done for Indic Wikimedia projects (there are 24
communities) after a detailed consultation and needs-assessment, please
see:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Indic_Wikipedia_Policies_and_Guidelines_Handbook.pdf
There are three types of issues:
a) Localizing policies (translating is not the only way, but localizing
keeping a project in mind)
b) Enforce them
c) For smaller communities having a group of editors working on these



Thanks
Tito Dutta
Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind
me over email or phone call.

On 2 August 2017 at 19:35, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content policies,
> but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of the
> smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial policies. It
> takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
>
> Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be something
> that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should simply be
> able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies should be
> localized if necessary.
>
> Checking Meta I find
> - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
>
> I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
>
> Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound baseline
> policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those? Perhaps
> with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
>
> Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original research"
> diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be about
> original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some projects
> neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators point of
> view"…
>
> Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline policies
> pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user pages,
> so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects would have
> more "ownership" of them.
>
> The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> Wiktionary, etc).
>
> Jeblad
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Gnangarra
its nice idea most just usurp the english policies to start with anyway
when they need it so having a base line on meta would be good though
probably it would best to have it set up automatically in the incubator
stage so that they get moved across when the projects takes the big leap
forward and the community that develops the project can develop these
policies as they grow.   It also means that as part of the jump these pages
will need to have been translated as well.

note I'm currently involved with a wikipedia in the the incubator



On 2 August 2017 at 22:29, Tito Dutta <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
> Some works and study was done for Indic Wikimedia projects (there are 24
> communities) after a detailed consultation and needs-assessment, please
> see:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Indic_Wikipedia_
> Policies_and_Guidelines_Handbook.pdf
> There are three types of issues:
> a) Localizing policies (translating is not the only way, but localizing
> keeping a project in mind)
> b) Enforce them
> c) For smaller communities having a group of editors working on these
>
>
>
> Thanks
> Tito Dutta
> Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind
> me over email or phone call.
>
> On 2 August 2017 at 19:35, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content
> policies,
> > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of the
> > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial policies. It
> > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
> >
> > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be
> something
> > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should simply be
> > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies should
> be
> > localized if necessary.
> >
> > Checking Meta I find
> > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> >
> > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> >
> > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound baseline
> > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those? Perhaps
> > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> >
> > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original research"
> > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be about
> > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some projects
> > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators point of
> > view"…
> >
> > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline
> policies
> > pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user pages,
> > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects would have
> > more "ownership" of them.
> >
> > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> > Wiktionary, etc).
> >
> > Jeblad
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
GN.
President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

John Erling Blad
I wonder if deviation away from a central core policy should be banned.
That view is probably not very popular.

Jeblad

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:

> its nice idea most just usurp the english policies to start with anyway
> when they need it so having a base line on meta would be good though
> probably it would best to have it set up automatically in the incubator
> stage so that they get moved across when the projects takes the big leap
> forward and the community that develops the project can develop these
> policies as they grow.   It also means that as part of the jump these pages
> will need to have been translated as well.
>
> note I'm currently involved with a wikipedia in the the incubator
>
>
>
> On 2 August 2017 at 22:29, Tito Dutta <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > Some works and study was done for Indic Wikimedia projects (there are 24
> > communities) after a detailed consultation and needs-assessment, please
> > see:
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Indic_Wikipedia_
> > Policies_and_Guidelines_Handbook.pdf
> > There are three types of issues:
> > a) Localizing policies (translating is not the only way, but localizing
> > keeping a project in mind)
> > b) Enforce them
> > c) For smaller communities having a group of editors working on these
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Tito Dutta
> > Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to
> remind
> > me over email or phone call.
> >
> > On 2 August 2017 at 19:35, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content
> > policies,
> > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of the
> > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial policies. It
> > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
> > >
> > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be
> > something
> > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should simply
> be
> > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies should
> > be
> > > localized if necessary.
> > >
> > > Checking Meta I find
> > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > >
> > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> > >
> > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound
> baseline
> > > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those?
> Perhaps
> > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > >
> > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original research"
> > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be about
> > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some projects
> > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators point of
> > > view"…
> > >
> > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline
> > policies
> > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user
> pages,
> > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects would
> have
> > > more "ownership" of them.
> > >
> > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > >
> > > Jeblad
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> President Wikimedia Australia
> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Jean-Philippe Béland
I oppose to that. Like that communities with bigger number, i.e. English,
will impose their rules to other communities. It's a basic fundamental
principle of Wikimedia projects since the beginning that every community is
independant,

JP

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 6:19 PM John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I wonder if deviation away from a central core policy should be banned.
> That view is probably not very popular.
>
> Jeblad
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > its nice idea most just usurp the english policies to start with anyway
> > when they need it so having a base line on meta would be good though
> > probably it would best to have it set up automatically in the incubator
> > stage so that they get moved across when the projects takes the big leap
> > forward and the community that develops the project can develop these
> > policies as they grow.   It also means that as part of the jump these
> pages
> > will need to have been translated as well.
> >
> > note I'm currently involved with a wikipedia in the the incubator
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2 August 2017 at 22:29, Tito Dutta <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > Some works and study was done for Indic Wikimedia projects (there are
> 24
> > > communities) after a detailed consultation and needs-assessment, please
> > > see:
> > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Indic_Wikipedia_
> > > Policies_and_Guidelines_Handbook.pdf
> > > There are three types of issues:
> > > a) Localizing policies (translating is not the only way, but localizing
> > > keeping a project in mind)
> > > b) Enforce them
> > > c) For smaller communities having a group of editors working on these
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Tito Dutta
> > > Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to
> > remind
> > > me over email or phone call.
> > >
> > > On 2 August 2017 at 19:35, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content
> > > policies,
> > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of the
> > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial policies.
> It
> > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
> > > >
> > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be
> > > something
> > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should
> simply
> > be
> > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies
> should
> > > be
> > > > localized if necessary.
> > > >
> > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > >
> > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> > > >
> > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound
> > baseline
> > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those?
> > Perhaps
> > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > > >
> > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original
> research"
> > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be about
> > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some projects
> > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators point
> of
> > > > view"…
> > > >
> > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline
> > > policies
> > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user
> > pages,
> > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects would
> > have
> > > > more "ownership" of them.
> > > >
> > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > > >
> > > > Jeblad
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> > President Wikimedia Australia
> > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Todd Allen
 I'd definitely agree there. There are a few non-negotiable points (NPOV,
copyright and licensing, nonfree content, etc.), but outside those,
individual projects generally have latitude to run things as their
community needs. And a project with thirty users and a thousand articles
will not be well served by some of the rules that make sense for projects
with thousands of active editors and millions of articles.

That being said, having some baseline stuff as a point of reference isn't a
bad idea, but individual projects should be free to modify or reject any
parts that don't make sense for them.

Todd

On Aug 2, 2017 4:24 PM, "Jean-Philippe Béland" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I oppose to that. Like that communities with bigger number, i.e. English,
> will impose their rules to other communities. It's a basic fundamental
> principle of Wikimedia projects since the beginning that every community is
> independant,
>
> JP
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 6:19 PM John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if deviation away from a central core policy should be banned.
> > That view is probably not very popular.
> >
> > Jeblad
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > its nice idea most just usurp the english policies to start with anyway
> > > when they need it so having a base line on meta would be good though
> > > probably it would best to have it set up automatically in the incubator
> > > stage so that they get moved across when the projects takes the big
> leap
> > > forward and the community that develops the project can develop these
> > > policies as they grow.   It also means that as part of the jump these
> > pages
> > > will need to have been translated as well.
> > >
> > > note I'm currently involved with a wikipedia in the the incubator
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2 August 2017 at 22:29, Tito Dutta <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > Some works and study was done for Indic Wikimedia projects (there are
> > 24
> > > > communities) after a detailed consultation and needs-assessment,
> please
> > > > see:
> > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Indic_Wikipedia_
> > > > Policies_and_Guidelines_Handbook.pdf
> > > > There are three types of issues:
> > > > a) Localizing policies (translating is not the only way, but
> localizing
> > > > keeping a project in mind)
> > > > b) Enforce them
> > > > c) For smaller communities having a group of editors working on these
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Tito Dutta
> > > > Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to
> > > remind
> > > > me over email or phone call.
> > > >
> > > > On 2 August 2017 at 19:35, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content
> > > > policies,
> > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of
> the
> > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial
> policies.
> > It
> > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be
> > > > something
> > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should
> > simply
> > > be
> > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies
> > should
> > > > be
> > > > > localized if necessary.
> > > > >
> > > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > > >
> > > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> > > > >
> > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound
> > > baseline
> > > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those?
> > > Perhaps
> > > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original
> > research"
> > > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be
> about
> > > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some
> projects
> > > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators
> point
> > of
> > > > > view"…
> > > > >
> > > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline
> > > > policies
> > > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user
> > > pages,
> > > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects
> would
> > > have
> > > > > more "ownership" of them.
> > > > >
> > > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> > > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeblad
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > GN.
> > > President Wikimedia Australia
> > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Keegan Peterzell
On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  I'd definitely agree there. There are a few non-negotiable points (NPOV,
> copyright and licensing, nonfree content, etc.), but outside those,
> individual projects generally have latitude to run things as their
> community needs.


​The English Wikivoyage has a "Be fair" policy, which is explicitly
different from NPOV [0].​ Copyright also varies from wiki to wiki, as fair
use for non-free content on the English Wikipedia exemplifies [1].

Things are not so simple.
​​
​0. https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Be_fair#Neutral_point_of_view​
​1. ​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Keegan Peterzell
In reply to this post by John Erling Blad
On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 9:05 AM, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
​<snip>​


> Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound baseline
> policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those? Perhaps
> with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
>
​<snip>

Precedent has​

​that the Board of Trustees can issue resolutions urging communities to
adopt certain policies, such as the resolution on Biographies of Living
People in 2009 [0].

0.
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Biographies_of_living_people

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Sam Wilson
In reply to this post by Keegan Peterzell
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017, at 06:53 AM, Keegan Peterzell wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >  I'd definitely agree there. There are a few non-negotiable points (NPOV,
> > copyright and licensing, nonfree content, etc.), but outside those,
> > individual projects generally have latitude to run things as their
> > community needs.
>
>
> ​The English Wikivoyage has a "Be fair" policy, which is explicitly
> different from NPOV [0].​ Copyright also varies from wiki to wiki, as
> fair
> use for non-free content on the English Wikipedia exemplifies [1].
>

And English Wikiversity (and maybe other Wikiversities?) allows original
research (within certain guidelines).

—Sam

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Rogol Domedonfors
Is it wise for the Foundation to be seen to controlling content in this
way?  Would that not jeopardise their legal immunity?

"Rogol"

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Sam Wilson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Aug 2017, at 06:53 AM, Keegan Peterzell wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > >  I'd definitely agree there. There are a few non-negotiable points
> (NPOV,
> > > copyright and licensing, nonfree content, etc.), but outside those,
> > > individual projects generally have latitude to run things as their
> > > community needs.
> >
> >
> > ​The English Wikivoyage has a "Be fair" policy, which is explicitly
> > different from NPOV [0].​ Copyright also varies from wiki to wiki, as
> > fair
> > use for non-free content on the English Wikipedia exemplifies [1].
> >
>
> And English Wikiversity (and maybe other Wikiversities?) allows original
> research (within certain guidelines).
>
> —Sam
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

John Erling Blad
In reply to this post by Jean-Philippe Béland
What happens now is that policies from enwiki is adopted "as is", but a lot
of the rules enwiki does not make sense at all.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 12:24 AM, Jean-Philippe Béland <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> I oppose to that. Like that communities with bigger number, i.e. English,
> will impose their rules to other communities. It's a basic fundamental
> principle of Wikimedia projects since the beginning that every community is
> independant,
>
> JP
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 6:19 PM John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if deviation away from a central core policy should be banned.
> > That view is probably not very popular.
> >
> > Jeblad
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > its nice idea most just usurp the english policies to start with anyway
> > > when they need it so having a base line on meta would be good though
> > > probably it would best to have it set up automatically in the incubator
> > > stage so that they get moved across when the projects takes the big
> leap
> > > forward and the community that develops the project can develop these
> > > policies as they grow.   It also means that as part of the jump these
> > pages
> > > will need to have been translated as well.
> > >
> > > note I'm currently involved with a wikipedia in the the incubator
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2 August 2017 at 22:29, Tito Dutta <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > Some works and study was done for Indic Wikimedia projects (there are
> > 24
> > > > communities) after a detailed consultation and needs-assessment,
> please
> > > > see:
> > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Indic_Wikipedia_
> > > > Policies_and_Guidelines_Handbook.pdf
> > > > There are three types of issues:
> > > > a) Localizing policies (translating is not the only way, but
> localizing
> > > > keeping a project in mind)
> > > > b) Enforce them
> > > > c) For smaller communities having a group of editors working on these
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Tito Dutta
> > > > Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to
> > > remind
> > > > me over email or phone call.
> > > >
> > > > On 2 August 2017 at 19:35, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content
> > > > policies,
> > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of
> the
> > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial
> policies.
> > It
> > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be
> > > > something
> > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should
> > simply
> > > be
> > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies
> > should
> > > > be
> > > > > localized if necessary.
> > > > >
> > > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > > >
> > > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> > > > >
> > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound
> > > baseline
> > > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those?
> > > Perhaps
> > > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original
> > research"
> > > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be
> about
> > > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some
> projects
> > > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators
> point
> > of
> > > > > view"…
> > > > >
> > > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline
> > > > policies
> > > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user
> > > pages,
> > > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects
> would
> > > have
> > > > > more "ownership" of them.
> > > > >
> > > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> > > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeblad
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > GN.
> > > President Wikimedia Australia
> > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
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> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
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> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
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> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

John Erling Blad
In reply to this post by Keegan Peterzell
I used Wikipedia as an example, I would not expect core content policy from
Wikipedia to be a good fit for Wikivoyage. Still Wikivoyage could have
common ploicies on Meta the same way Wikipedia would do.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >  I'd definitely agree there. There are a few non-negotiable points (NPOV,
> > copyright and licensing, nonfree content, etc.), but outside those,
> > individual projects generally have latitude to run things as their
> > community needs.
>
>
> ​The English Wikivoyage has a "Be fair" policy, which is explicitly
> different from NPOV [0].​ Copyright also varies from wiki to wiki, as fair
> use for non-free content on the English Wikipedia exemplifies [1].
>
> Things are not so simple.
> ​​
> ​0. https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Be_fair#
> Neutral_point_of_view​
> ​1. ​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content
>
>
> --
> ~Keegan
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
>
> This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email address
> is in a personal capacity.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

John Erling Blad
In reply to this post by Rogol Domedonfors
Without common core policies they can not claim that the projects stick
within their boundaries. Is a project without a clear policy on "no
original research", "verifiability" and "neutral point of view" Wikipedia?
Is it enough to just say it is "Wikipedia" to be "Wikipedia"? I believe
there should be clearer boundaries on what it means to be "Wikipedia", or
"Wikiversity" or "Wiktionary", or some other "Wiki*".

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 8:44 AM, Rogol Domedonfors <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Is it wise for the Foundation to be seen to controlling content in this
> way?  Would that not jeopardise their legal immunity?
>
> "Rogol"
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Sam Wilson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 3 Aug 2017, at 06:53 AM, Keegan Peterzell wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Todd Allen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >  I'd definitely agree there. There are a few non-negotiable points
> > (NPOV,
> > > > copyright and licensing, nonfree content, etc.), but outside those,
> > > > individual projects generally have latitude to run things as their
> > > > community needs.
> > >
> > >
> > > ​The English Wikivoyage has a "Be fair" policy, which is explicitly
> > > different from NPOV [0].​ Copyright also varies from wiki to wiki, as
> > > fair
> > > use for non-free content on the English Wikipedia exemplifies [1].
> > >
> >
> > And English Wikiversity (and maybe other Wikiversities?) allows original
> > research (within certain guidelines).
> >
> > —Sam
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Gnangarra
In reply to this post by John Erling Blad
I think meta is the wrong place, the coreor base line policies should be in
the incubator not meta and created as guide at the start of a project then
let the project develop their uniqueness, individuality from there.  If it
gets put on meta it will become a you must do this and only this to the
wikilawyers removing all community input into the process.  Also for many
people they dont follow meta so what will also happen is that these will
get changed and the new policy will become via a forced  cascade to the
communities.  I for one could never support any process being created as a
means to take away from the community its own solutions

On 3 August 2017 at 15:33, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I used Wikipedia as an example, I would not expect core content policy from
> Wikipedia to be a good fit for Wikivoyage. Still Wikivoyage could have
> common ploicies on Meta the same way Wikipedia would do.
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > >  I'd definitely agree there. There are a few non-negotiable points
> (NPOV,
> > > copyright and licensing, nonfree content, etc.), but outside those,
> > > individual projects generally have latitude to run things as their
> > > community needs.
> >
> >
> > ​The English Wikivoyage has a "Be fair" policy, which is explicitly
> > different from NPOV [0].​ Copyright also varies from wiki to wiki, as
> fair
> > use for non-free content on the English Wikipedia exemplifies [1].
> >
> > Things are not so simple.
> > ​​
> > ​0. https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Be_fair#
> > Neutral_point_of_view​
> > ​1. ​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content
> >
> >
> > --
> > ~Keegan
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
> >
> > This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email
> address
> > is in a personal capacity.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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>



--
GN.
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WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Strainu
In reply to this post by John Erling Blad
The core policies should be the ones pushed by board resolution, and
those should be the absolute minimum required to keep the projects
safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with little
understanding of small Wikipedias will try to push stuff from en.wp.
Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta on all the
different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not have, with
little consideration on whether the manpower to implement, let alone
maintain, these processes exists. No thank you to rule pushing without
local context.

Having a community take a rule from en.wp is different, just as long
as some kind of discussion happens within the community about it. Even
if the rule is really useless or harmful and the community did not
realize that in the beginning, at least it can evolve differently from
the English one. Have a centralized repository and trying to change
the rules there by consensus would be much more difficult for small
communities.

Strainu

2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad <[hidden email]>:

> Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content policies,
> but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of the
> smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial policies. It
> takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
>
> Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be something
> that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should simply be
> able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies should be
> localized if necessary.
>
> Checking Meta I find
> - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
>
> I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
>
> Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound baseline
> policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those? Perhaps
> with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
>
> Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original research"
> diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be about
> original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some projects
> neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators point of
> view"…
>
> Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline policies
> pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user pages,
> so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects would have
> more "ownership" of them.
>
> The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> Wiktionary, etc).
>
> Jeblad
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

John Erling Blad
In reply to this post by Gnangarra
Common core policies should be on Meta, not Incubator.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think meta is the wrong place, the coreor base line policies should be in
> the incubator not meta and created as guide at the start of a project then
> let the project develop their uniqueness, individuality from there.  If it
> gets put on meta it will become a you must do this and only this to the
> wikilawyers removing all community input into the process.  Also for many
> people they dont follow meta so what will also happen is that these will
> get changed and the new policy will become via a forced  cascade to the
> communities.  I for one could never support any process being created as a
> means to take away from the community its own solutions
>
> On 3 August 2017 at 15:33, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I used Wikipedia as an example, I would not expect core content policy
> from
> > Wikipedia to be a good fit for Wikivoyage. Still Wikivoyage could have
> > common ploicies on Meta the same way Wikipedia would do.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Todd Allen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >  I'd definitely agree there. There are a few non-negotiable points
> > (NPOV,
> > > > copyright and licensing, nonfree content, etc.), but outside those,
> > > > individual projects generally have latitude to run things as their
> > > > community needs.
> > >
> > >
> > > ​The English Wikivoyage has a "Be fair" policy, which is explicitly
> > > different from NPOV [0].​ Copyright also varies from wiki to wiki, as
> > fair
> > > use for non-free content on the English Wikipedia exemplifies [1].
> > >
> > > Things are not so simple.
> > > ​​
> > > ​0. https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Be_fair#
> > > Neutral_point_of_view​
> > > ​1. ​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ~Keegan
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
> > >
> > > This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email
> > address
> > > is in a personal capacity.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> President Wikimedia Australia
> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

John Erling Blad
In reply to this post by Strainu
Having centralized core policies would lessen the maintenance and process,
not increase them.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The core policies should be the ones pushed by board resolution, and
> those should be the absolute minimum required to keep the projects
> safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with little
> understanding of small Wikipedias will try to push stuff from en.wp.
> Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta on all the
> different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not have, with
> little consideration on whether the manpower to implement, let alone
> maintain, these processes exists. No thank you to rule pushing without
> local context.
>
> Having a community take a rule from en.wp is different, just as long
> as some kind of discussion happens within the community about it. Even
> if the rule is really useless or harmful and the community did not
> realize that in the beginning, at least it can evolve differently from
> the English one. Have a centralized repository and trying to change
> the rules there by consensus would be much more difficult for small
> communities.
>
> Strainu
>
> 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad <[hidden email]>:
> > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content
> policies,
> > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of the
> > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial policies. It
> > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
> >
> > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be
> something
> > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should simply be
> > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies should
> be
> > localized if necessary.
> >
> > Checking Meta I find
> > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> >
> > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> >
> > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound baseline
> > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those? Perhaps
> > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> >
> > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original research"
> > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be about
> > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some projects
> > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators point of
> > view"…
> >
> > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline
> policies
> > pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user pages,
> > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects would have
> > more "ownership" of them.
> >
> > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> > Wiktionary, etc).
> >
> > Jeblad
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Ziko van Dijk-3
In reply to this post by John Erling Blad
Hello, i wrote something about a comparison of conent policies and will
have a presentation at wikicon, but at the momemt i am not at my home
computer.
Kind regards ziko

John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> schrieb am Mi. 2. Aug. 2017 um 18:19:

> I wonder if deviation away from a central core policy should be banned.
> That view is probably not very popular.
>
> Jeblad
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > its nice idea most just usurp the english policies to start with anyway
> > when they need it so having a base line on meta would be good though
> > probably it would best to have it set up automatically in the incubator
> > stage so that they get moved across when the projects takes the big leap
> > forward and the community that develops the project can develop these
> > policies as they grow.   It also means that as part of the jump these
> pages
> > will need to have been translated as well.
> >
> > note I'm currently involved with a wikipedia in the the incubator
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2 August 2017 at 22:29, Tito Dutta <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > Some works and study was done for Indic Wikimedia projects (there are
> 24
> > > communities) after a detailed consultation and needs-assessment, please
> > > see:
> > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Indic_Wikipedia_
> > > Policies_and_Guidelines_Handbook.pdf
> > > There are three types of issues:
> > > a) Localizing policies (translating is not the only way, but localizing
> > > keeping a project in mind)
> > > b) Enforce them
> > > c) For smaller communities having a group of editors working on these
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Tito Dutta
> > > Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to
> > remind
> > > me over email or phone call.
> > >
> > > On 2 August 2017 at 19:35, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content
> > > policies,
> > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of the
> > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial policies.
> It
> > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
> > > >
> > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be
> > > something
> > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should
> simply
> > be
> > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies
> should
> > > be
> > > > localized if necessary.
> > > >
> > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > >
> > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> > > >
> > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound
> > baseline
> > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those?
> > Perhaps
> > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > > >
> > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original
> research"
> > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be about
> > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some projects
> > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators point
> of
> > > > view"…
> > > >
> > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline
> > > policies
> > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user
> > pages,
> > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects would
> > have
> > > > more "ownership" of them.
> > > >
> > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > > >
> > > > Jeblad
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> > President Wikimedia Australia
> > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Gnangarra
In reply to this post by John Erling Blad
The moment you have a centralised policy you take away the ability to
discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus from the community that
create the projects. Importantly you create the opportunity for banned and
blocked editors to decide what happens in a community.

By having a base set of simple policies in the Incubator that are
atuomatically created when a project starts up you give them the best guide
to establishing themselves well before that project goes live, ince a
project is live it has to be allowed to develop its community.

We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis for the projects, but
meta is not a place that the content creating community spends a lot of
time.

On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Having centralized core policies would lessen the maintenance and process,
> not increase them.
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > The core policies should be the ones pushed by board resolution, and
> > those should be the absolute minimum required to keep the projects
> > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with little
> > understanding of small Wikipedias will try to push stuff from en.wp.
> > Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta on all the
> > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not have, with
> > little consideration on whether the manpower to implement, let alone
> > maintain, these processes exists. No thank you to rule pushing without
> > local context.
> >
> > Having a community take a rule from en.wp is different, just as long
> > as some kind of discussion happens within the community about it. Even
> > if the rule is really useless or harmful and the community did not
> > realize that in the beginning, at least it can evolve differently from
> > the English one. Have a centralized repository and trying to change
> > the rules there by consensus would be much more difficult for small
> > communities.
> >
> > Strainu
> >
> > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad <[hidden email]>:
> > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content
> > policies,
> > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of the
> > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial policies. It
> > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
> > >
> > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be
> > something
> > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should simply
> be
> > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies should
> > be
> > > localized if necessary.
> > >
> > > Checking Meta I find
> > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > >
> > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> > >
> > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound
> baseline
> > > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those?
> Perhaps
> > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > >
> > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original research"
> > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be about
> > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some projects
> > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators point of
> > > view"…
> > >
> > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline
> > policies
> > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user
> pages,
> > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects would
> have
> > > more "ownership" of them.
> > >
> > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > >
> > > Jeblad
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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>



--
GN.
President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Peter Southwood
In reply to this post by John Erling Blad
Only when they are common by necessity, not when they are common by coincidence.
Cheers,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John Erling Blad
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 1:06 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

Common core policies should be on Meta, not Incubator.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think meta is the wrong place, the coreor base line policies should
> be in the incubator not meta and created as guide at the start of a
> project then let the project develop their uniqueness, individuality
> from there.  If it gets put on meta it will become a you must do this
> and only this to the wikilawyers removing all community input into the
> process.  Also for many people they dont follow meta so what will also
> happen is that these will get changed and the new policy will become
> via a forced  cascade to the communities.  I for one could never
> support any process being created as a means to take away from the
> community its own solutions
>
> On 3 August 2017 at 15:33, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I used Wikipedia as an example, I would not expect core content
> > policy
> from
> > Wikipedia to be a good fit for Wikivoyage. Still Wikivoyage could
> > have common ploicies on Meta the same way Wikipedia would do.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Keegan Peterzell
> > <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Todd Allen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >  I'd definitely agree there. There are a few non-negotiable
> > > > points
> > (NPOV,
> > > > copyright and licensing, nonfree content, etc.), but outside
> > > > those, individual projects generally have latitude to run things
> > > > as their community needs.
> > >
> > >
> > > ​The English Wikivoyage has a "Be fair" policy, which is
> > > explicitly different from NPOV [0].​ Copyright also varies from
> > > wiki to wiki, as
> > fair
> > > use for non-free content on the English Wikipedia exemplifies [1].
> > >
> > > Things are not so simple.
> > > ​​
> > > ​0. https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Be_fair#
> > > Neutral_point_of_view​
> > > ​1. ​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ~Keegan
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
> > >
> > > This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email
> > address
> > > is in a personal capacity.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscrib
> > > e>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ 
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ 
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> President Wikimedia Australia
> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com 
> _______________________________________________
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