Hello all,
There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons components of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education Newsletter https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects and so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd remarks were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded copyrighted content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't care." and "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? Thrapostibongles _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted.
The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several GLAM-related mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing what it is intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can create a project template to mark all uploads with them. See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with Common's admins - creating template and project page helps to promote you project across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do something similar. Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but on the other hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright violating files a day: See the list from just one day: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to cope with aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after some time - decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the other issue is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - screening uploads by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < [hidden email]> napisał(a): > Hello all, > > There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons components > of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly > hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education > Newsletter > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project > uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons > deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects and > so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd remarks > were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded copyrighted > content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't care." > and > "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for > images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > Thrapostibongles > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> -- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or capable to do the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> wrote: > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several GLAM-related > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing what it is > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can create a > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with Common's > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote you project > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do something similar. > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but on the other > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright violating files a > day: > > See the list from just one day: > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to cope with > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after some time - > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the other issue > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - screening uploads > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > >> Hello all, >> >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons components >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education >> Newsletter >> >> >> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions >> >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects and >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd remarks >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded copyrighted >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't care." >> and >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". >> >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? >> >> Thrapostibongles >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: [hidden email] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > -- > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the amount of
material it has to deal with. Cheers Yaroslav On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or capable to do > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several GLAM-related > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing what it > is > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can create a > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with Common's > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote you project > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do something > similar. > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but on the > other > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright violating files a > > day: > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to cope with > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after some time - > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the other issue > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - screening uploads > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > >> Hello all, > >> > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons > components > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education > >> Newsletter > >> > >> > >> > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > >> > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects > and > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd > remarks > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded > copyrighted > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't care." > >> and > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > >> > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > >> > >> Thrapostibongles > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > -- > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores support for
images that might be copyright violation, or both. Best On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote: > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the amount of > material it has to deal with. > > Cheers > Yaroslav > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or capable to > do > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several > GLAM-related > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing what it > > is > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can create a > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with Common's > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote you > project > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do something > > similar. > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but on the > > other > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright violating > files a > > > day: > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to cope with > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after some time - > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the other > issue > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - screening > uploads > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > > > >> Hello all, > > >> > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons > > components > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education > > >> Newsletter > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > >> > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects > > and > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd > > remarks > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded > > copyrighted > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't > care." > > >> and > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > >> > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > >> > > >> Thrapostibongles > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> -- Amir (he/him) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
In reply to this post by Yaroslav Blanter
Yes, Yaroslav is right. The active community is small compared to the
amount of work to be done. I have advocated since long that massive training is needed to fix this. These trainings should be sponsored by the WMF and its affiliates. Regards, Yann Forget Jai Jagat 2020 Grand March Coordinator https://www.jaijagat2020.org/ +91-74 34 93 33 58 (also WhatsApp) Le dim. 12 mai 2019 à 16:40, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> a écrit : > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the amount of > material it has to deal with. > > Cheers > Yaroslav > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or capable to > do > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several > GLAM-related > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing what it > > is > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can create a > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with Common's > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote you > project > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do something > > similar. > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but on the > > other > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright violating > files a > > > day: > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to cope with > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after some time - > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the other > issue > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - screening > uploads > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > > > >> Hello all, > > >> > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons > > components > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education > > >> Newsletter > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > >> > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects > > and > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd > > remarks > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded > > copyrighted > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't > care." > > >> and > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > >> > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > >> > > >> Thrapostibongles > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
In reply to this post by Amir Sarabadani-2
A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for
access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to see if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be reduced.[1] Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make mass housekeeping very easy. A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons hat on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use than mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to suck up all the oxygen and volunteer time available. Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, that several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were originally interested have since retired. Without some positive short term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away. Links 1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash Fae On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> wrote: > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores support for > images that might be copyright violation, or both. > > Best > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the amount of > > material it has to deal with. > > > > Cheers > > Yaroslav > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or capable to > > do > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several > > GLAM-related > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing what it > > > is > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can create a > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with Common's > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote you > > project > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do something > > > similar. > > > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but on the > > > other > > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright violating > > files a > > > > day: > > > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to cope with > > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after some time - > > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the other > > issue > > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - screening > > uploads > > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > > > > > >> Hello all, > > > >> > > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons > > > components > > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly > > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education > > > >> Newsletter > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > > >> > > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project > > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons > > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects > > > and > > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd > > > remarks > > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded > > > copyrighted > > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't > > care." > > > >> and > > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for > > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > > >> > > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > > >> > > > >> Thrapostibongles > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > -- > Amir (he/him) > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
It is hard to get the admin bit there aswell. Is Commons interested in
having more admins? James On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:41 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote: > A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for > access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a > copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be > terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to see > if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be > reduced.[1] > > Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping > image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make mass > housekeeping very easy. > > A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image > hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons hat > on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use than > mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to suck > up all the oxygen and volunteer time available. > > Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, that > several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were > originally interested have since retired. Without some positive short > term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful > experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away. > > Links > 1. > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash > > Fae > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores support for > > images that might be copyright violation, or both. > > > > Best > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the > amount of > > > material it has to deal with. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta < > [hidden email]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or capable > to > > > do > > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > > > > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several > > > GLAM-related > > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing > what it > > > > is > > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can > create a > > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with > Common's > > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote you > > > project > > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do something > > > > similar. > > > > > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but on > the > > > > other > > > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright violating > > > files a > > > > > day: > > > > > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to cope > with > > > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after some > time - > > > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the other > > > issue > > > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - screening > > > uploads > > > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > >> Hello all, > > > > >> > > > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons > > > > components > > > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a > highly > > > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the > Education > > > > >> Newsletter > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > > > >> > > > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach > project > > > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on > Commons > > > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student > projects > > > > and > > > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd > > > > remarks > > > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded > > > > copyrighted > > > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't > > > care." > > > > >> and > > > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage > for > > > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > > > >> > > > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > > > >> > > > > >> Thrapostibongles > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > , > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email] > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > -- > > Amir (he/him) > > _______________________________________________ > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
I wonder wheter local sysops could be allowed to delete/undelete images on
commons in order to reduce workload. Most risky commons' uploads come from cw-upload, allow local sysops to handle them could work. Vito Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:31 James Heilman <[hidden email]> ha scritto: > It is hard to get the admin bit there aswell. Is Commons interested in > having more admins? > > James > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:41 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for > > access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a > > copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be > > terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to see > > if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be > > reduced.[1] > > > > Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping > > image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make mass > > housekeeping very easy. > > > > A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image > > hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons hat > > on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use than > > mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to suck > > up all the oxygen and volunteer time available. > > > > Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, that > > several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were > > originally interested have since retired. Without some positive short > > term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful > > experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away. > > > > Links > > 1. > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition > > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash > > > > Fae > > > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > > > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores support > for > > > images that might be copyright violation, or both. > > > > > > Best > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the > > amount of > > > > material it has to deal with. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta < > > [hidden email]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or > capable > > to > > > > do > > > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > > > > > > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several > > > > GLAM-related > > > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing > > what it > > > > > is > > > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can > > create a > > > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with > > Common's > > > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote you > > > > project > > > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do > something > > > > > similar. > > > > > > > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but on > > the > > > > > other > > > > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright violating > > > > files a > > > > > > day: > > > > > > > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to cope > > with > > > > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after some > > time - > > > > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the > other > > > > issue > > > > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - screening > > > > uploads > > > > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > > > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hello all, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons > > > > > components > > > > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a > > highly > > > > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the > > Education > > > > > >> Newsletter > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > > > > >> > > > > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach > > project > > > > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on > > Commons > > > > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student > > projects > > > > > and > > > > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather > odd > > > > > remarks > > > > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded > > > > > copyrighted > > > > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that > doesn't > > > > care." > > > > > >> and > > > > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud > storage > > for > > > > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Thrapostibongles > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > , > > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email] > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > > > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > > > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Amir (he/him) > > > _______________________________________________ > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > -- > James Heilman > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
Not all local sysops have a strong knowledge of image licensing and I think
allowing local sysops not familiar with image licensing and how Commons community works in general to delete\undelete files would be counterproductive. I agree with Yann that training would work. I think resources allocation and attention should be given to community who wish to train volunteers on how to contribute to Commons (beyond image uploads) Regards, Isaac On Sun, May 12, 2019, 2:35 PM Vi to <[hidden email] wrote: > I wonder wheter local sysops could be allowed to delete/undelete images on > commons in order to reduce workload. Most risky commons' uploads come from > cw-upload, allow local sysops to handle them could work. > > Vito > > Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:31 James Heilman <[hidden email]> > ha scritto: > > > It is hard to get the admin bit there aswell. Is Commons interested in > > having more admins? > > > > James > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:41 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for > > > access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a > > > copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be > > > terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to see > > > if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be > > > reduced.[1] > > > > > > Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping > > > image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make mass > > > housekeeping very easy. > > > > > > A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image > > > hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons hat > > > on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use than > > > mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to suck > > > up all the oxygen and volunteer time available. > > > > > > Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, that > > > several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were > > > originally interested have since retired. Without some positive short > > > term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful > > > experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away. > > > > > > Links > > > 1. > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition > > > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash > > > > > > Fae > > > > > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores support > > for > > > > images that might be copyright violation, or both. > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the > > > amount of > > > > > material it has to deal with. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta < > > > [hidden email]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or > > capable > > > to > > > > > do > > > > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several > > > > > GLAM-related > > > > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing > > > what it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can > > > create a > > > > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with > > > Common's > > > > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote > you > > > > > project > > > > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do > > something > > > > > > similar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but > on > > > the > > > > > > other > > > > > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright > violating > > > > > files a > > > > > > > day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to > cope > > > with > > > > > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after > some > > > time - > > > > > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the > > other > > > > > issue > > > > > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - > screening > > > > > uploads > > > > > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > > > > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hello all, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the > Commons > > > > > > components > > > > > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a > > > highly > > > > > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the > > > Education > > > > > > >> Newsletter > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach > > > project > > > > > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on > > > Commons > > > > > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student > > > projects > > > > > > and > > > > > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather > > odd > > > > > > remarks > > > > > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded > > > > > > copyrighted > > > > > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that > > doesn't > > > > > care." > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud > > storage > > > for > > > > > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Thrapostibongles > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > > , > > > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email] > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > > > > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > > > > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Amir (he/him) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > -- > > James Heilman > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
In reply to this post by Vi to
As I am the author of the post, some remarks:
* Commons is, indeed, the only [cloud] storage for file in most of the Wikipedias. Making an accusation of using Commons as a storage place is unfair and nonsense. * Communication could be better, of course, but we don't have to think on experienced editors and wikimedians, but on people we are trying to convince to upload to the Commons and find this burden. They don't know how to communicate and why they must do it. * The upload system allow you to upload something if you are the author. Period. * Claiming that something is a derivative work without saying which is the original work is not a good practice. * Of course, commons volunteers are few, and they have a great job-queue. But outreach volunteers are less, and a project like this can take a whole year of volunteer work. * After all the victim-blaming seen on this discussion no one was able to point to a page where the procedure was clear for everyone. Let's hope we can follow with this project next year and we will have less problems. Cheers Galder ________________________________ From: Wikimedia-l <[hidden email]> on behalf of Vi to <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 3:35 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach I wonder wheter local sysops could be allowed to delete/undelete images on commons in order to reduce workload. Most risky commons' uploads come from cw-upload, allow local sysops to handle them could work. Vito Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:31 James Heilman <[hidden email]> ha scritto: > It is hard to get the admin bit there aswell. Is Commons interested in > having more admins? > > James > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:41 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for > > access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a > > copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be > > terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to see > > if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be > > reduced.[1] > > > > Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping > > image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make mass > > housekeeping very easy. > > > > A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image > > hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons hat > > on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use than > > mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to suck > > up all the oxygen and volunteer time available. > > > > Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, that > > several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were > > originally interested have since retired. Without some positive short > > term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful > > experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away. > > > > Links > > 1. > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition > > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash > > > > Fae > > > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > > > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores support > for > > > images that might be copyright violation, or both. > > > > > > Best > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the > > amount of > > > > material it has to deal with. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta < > > [hidden email]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or > capable > > to > > > > do > > > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > > > > > > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several > > > > GLAM-related > > > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing > > what it > > > > > is > > > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can > > create a > > > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with > > Common's > > > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote you > > > > project > > > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do > something > > > > > similar. > > > > > > > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but on > > the > > > > > other > > > > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright violating > > > > files a > > > > > > day: > > > > > > > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to cope > > with > > > > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after some > > time - > > > > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the > other > > > > issue > > > > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - screening > > > > uploads > > > > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > > > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hello all, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons > > > > > components > > > > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a > > highly > > > > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the > > Education > > > > > >> Newsletter > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > > > > >> > > > > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach > > project > > > > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on > > Commons > > > > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student > > projects > > > > > and > > > > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather > odd > > > > > remarks > > > > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded > > > > > copyrighted > > > > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that > doesn't > > > > care." > > > > > >> and > > > > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud > storage > > for > > > > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Thrapostibongles > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > , > > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email] > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > > > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > > > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Amir (he/him) > > > _______________________________________________ > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > -- > James Heilman > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
This episode exposes a policy of Commons that may be unknown to many folks
- the precautionary principle. It is an explicit exception to assuming good faith, so I noted this on the AGF page on Commons. https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Assume_good_faith&oldid=prev&diff=349650525 On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:23 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga < [hidden email]> wrote: > As I am the author of the post, some remarks: > > * Commons is, indeed, the only [cloud] storage for file in most of the > Wikipedias. Making an accusation of using Commons as a storage place is > unfair and nonsense. > * Communication could be better, of course, but we don't have to think > on experienced editors and wikimedians, but on people we are trying to > convince to upload to the Commons and find this burden. They don't know how > to communicate and why they must do it. > * The upload system allow you to upload something if you are the > author. Period. > * Claiming that something is a derivative work without saying which is > the original work is not a good practice. > * Of course, commons volunteers are few, and they have a great > job-queue. But outreach volunteers are less, and a project like this can > take a whole year of volunteer work. > * After all the victim-blaming seen on this discussion no one was able > to point to a page where the procedure was clear for everyone. > > Let's hope we can follow with this project next year and we will have less > problems. > > Cheers > > Galder > ________________________________ > From: Wikimedia-l <[hidden email]> on behalf of > Vi to <[hidden email]> > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 3:35 PM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach > > I wonder wheter local sysops could be allowed to delete/undelete images on > commons in order to reduce workload. Most risky commons' uploads come from > cw-upload, allow local sysops to handle them could work. > > Vito > > Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:31 James Heilman <[hidden email]> > ha scritto: > > > It is hard to get the admin bit there aswell. Is Commons interested in > > having more admins? > > > > James > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:41 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for > > > access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a > > > copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be > > > terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to see > > > if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be > > > reduced.[1] > > > > > > Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping > > > image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make mass > > > housekeeping very easy. > > > > > > A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image > > > hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons hat > > > on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use than > > > mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to suck > > > up all the oxygen and volunteer time available. > > > > > > Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, that > > > several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were > > > originally interested have since retired. Without some positive short > > > term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful > > > experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away. > > > > > > Links > > > 1. > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition > > > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash > > > > > > Fae > > > > > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores support > > for > > > > images that might be copyright violation, or both. > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the > > > amount of > > > > > material it has to deal with. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta < > > > [hidden email]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or > > capable > > > to > > > > > do > > > > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several > > > > > GLAM-related > > > > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing > > > what it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can > > > create a > > > > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with > > > Common's > > > > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote > you > > > > > project > > > > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do > > something > > > > > > similar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but > on > > > the > > > > > > other > > > > > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright > violating > > > > > files a > > > > > > > day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to > cope > > > with > > > > > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after > some > > > time - > > > > > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the > > other > > > > > issue > > > > > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - > screening > > > > > uploads > > > > > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > > > > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hello all, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the > Commons > > > > > > components > > > > > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a > > > highly > > > > > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the > > > Education > > > > > > >> Newsletter > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach > > > project > > > > > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on > > > Commons > > > > > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student > > > projects > > > > > > and > > > > > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather > > odd > > > > > > remarks > > > > > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded > > > > > > copyrighted > > > > > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that > > doesn't > > > > > care." > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud > > storage > > > for > > > > > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Thrapostibongles > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > > , > > > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email] > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > > > > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > > > > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Amir (he/him) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > -- > > James Heilman > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> -- -Andrew Lih Author of The Wikipedia Revolution US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016) Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015) Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American University, Columbia University, USC --- Email: [hidden email] WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
In reply to this post by Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 16:23 Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <[hidden email]>
napisał(a): > As I am the author of the post, some remarks: > > * Commons is, indeed, the only [cloud] storage for file in most of the > Wikipedias. Making an accusation of using Commons as a storage place is > unfair and nonsense. > I think - what someone wanted to say - is that Commons is wiki with its own community, which desire some respect as any other wikimedia communities. In that sense - it is not cloud service which are usually maintained automatically. It is better to think about Commons - as a wiki - not as a cloud storage service. * Communication could be better, of course, but we don't have to think > on experienced editors and wikimedians, but on people we are trying to > convince to upload to the Commons and find this burden. They don't know how > to communicate and why they must do it. > That's true - therefore - when you organize any outreach or GLAM project it is good to teach the users how to communicate on wiki - as it is a quite strange system comparing to what typical internet user might be accustomed to, nowadays. * The upload system allow you to upload something if you are the > author. Period. > Yes. Exactly. If you think about default upload wizard - it is possible to upload other's works, but it is not that easy. Also - it is pretty hard to upload public domain works. * Of course, commons volunteers are few, and they have a great > job-queue. But outreach volunteers are less, and a project like this can > take a whole year of volunteer work. > Well - this is disputable. I don't know global proportions - but for example for Polish part of community - there are actually 3 employees doing outreach and around 10 volunteers - and there are 3 really active Polish Common's admins and only one regularly active OTRS agent (me)... Out of these 3 really active Common's admins - 2 are actually also doing outreach. And in fact - probably the best thing would be to have in any outreach team at least one person having good knowledge about hostile Common's habits and how to effectively cope with them :-) * After all the victim-blaming seen on this discussion no one was able > to point to a page where the procedure was clear for everyone. > Yeah. Because there is no any single page on Commons that might solve your problems. This is the other issue - Common's help pages are well.. far from being perfect. Let's hope we can follow with this project next year and we will have less > problems. > > > I hope too. This is for sure really interesting project worth any support. -- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
In reply to this post by Vi to
I absolutely disagree with this. A Wikipedia sysop do not necessarily has -
and from my experience, most of the time hasn't - the necessary skills to deal with copyright. Best, Paulo A domingo, 12 de mai de 2019, 14:35, Vi to <[hidden email]> escreveu: > I wonder wheter local sysops could be allowed to delete/undelete images on > commons in order to reduce workload. Most risky commons' uploads come from > cw-upload, allow local sysops to handle them could work. > > Vito > > Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:31 James Heilman <[hidden email]> > ha scritto: > > > It is hard to get the admin bit there aswell. Is Commons interested in > > having more admins? > > > > James > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:41 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for > > > access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a > > > copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be > > > terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to see > > > if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be > > > reduced.[1] > > > > > > Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping > > > image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make mass > > > housekeeping very easy. > > > > > > A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image > > > hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons hat > > > on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use than > > > mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to suck > > > up all the oxygen and volunteer time available. > > > > > > Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, that > > > several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were > > > originally interested have since retired. Without some positive short > > > term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful > > > experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away. > > > > > > Links > > > 1. > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition > > > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash > > > > > > Fae > > > > > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores support > > for > > > > images that might be copyright violation, or both. > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the > > > amount of > > > > > material it has to deal with. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta < > > > [hidden email]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or > > capable > > > to > > > > > do > > > > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several > > > > > GLAM-related > > > > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing > > > what it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can > > > create a > > > > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with > > > Common's > > > > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote > you > > > > > project > > > > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do > > something > > > > > > similar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but > on > > > the > > > > > > other > > > > > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright > violating > > > > > files a > > > > > > > day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to > cope > > > with > > > > > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after > some > > > time - > > > > > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the > > other > > > > > issue > > > > > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - > screening > > > > > uploads > > > > > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > > > > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hello all, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the > Commons > > > > > > components > > > > > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a > > > highly > > > > > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the > > > Education > > > > > > >> Newsletter > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach > > > project > > > > > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on > > > Commons > > > > > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student > > > projects > > > > > > and > > > > > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather > > odd > > > > > > remarks > > > > > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded > > > > > > copyrighted > > > > > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that > > doesn't > > > > > care." > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud > > storage > > > for > > > > > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Thrapostibongles > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > > , > > > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email] > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > > > > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > > > > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Amir (he/him) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > -- > > James Heilman > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
In reply to this post by Fæ
Fae,
I think that what you are describing is essentially the sort of mechanism that would be mandated by Article 17 on the proposed new European copyright directive. Since the Foundation has explicitly opposed that, see their blog post https://wikimediafoundation.org/2019/03/26/european-parliament-limits-internet-freedom-in-controversial-copyright-vote/ I presume that they will not permit the use of such an automated system on their projects. Thrapostibongles On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 12:41 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote: > A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for > access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a > copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be > terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to see > if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be > reduced.[1] > > Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping > image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make mass > housekeeping very easy. > > A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image > hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons hat > on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use than > mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to suck > up all the oxygen and volunteer time available. > > Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, that > several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were > originally interested have since retired. Without some positive short > term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful > experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away. > > Links > 1. > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash > > Fae > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores support for > > images that might be copyright violation, or both. > > > > Best > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the > amount of > > > material it has to deal with. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta < > [hidden email]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or capable > to > > > do > > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted. > > > > > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several > > > GLAM-related > > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing > what it > > > > is > > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can > create a > > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with > Common's > > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote you > > > project > > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do something > > > > similar. > > > > > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but on > the > > > > other > > > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright violating > > > files a > > > > > day: > > > > > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to cope > with > > > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after some > time - > > > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the other > > > issue > > > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - screening > > > uploads > > > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > >> Hello all, > > > > >> > > > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons > > > > components > > > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a > highly > > > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the > Education > > > > >> Newsletter > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > > > >> > > > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach > project > > > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on > Commons > > > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student > projects > > > > and > > > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd > > > > remarks > > > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded > > > > copyrighted > > > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't > > > care." > > > > >> and > > > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage > for > > > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > > > >> > > > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > > > >> > > > > >> Thrapostibongles > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > , > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email] > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > -- > > Amir (he/him) > > _______________________________________________ > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
In reply to this post by Mister Thrapostibongles
It seems to be a situation where there were no clear instructions, so people did what they thought was a good idea, but others thought it was a bad idea. No communications, now the blame is being spread without analysing the problem and proposing a solution. Not an unusual situation really.
Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mister Thrapostibongles Sent: 11 May 2019 08:53 To: [hidden email] Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach Hello all, There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons components of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education Newsletter https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects and so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd remarks were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded copyrighted content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't care." and "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? Thrapostibongles _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
Well.. there where instructions. All the videos were supervised before uploading, all the songs were perfectly cited at the descriptions and all the own work was marked as own work. This are the instructiones to follow when uploading to Commons.
________________________________ From: Wikimedia-l <[hidden email]> on behalf of Peter Southwood <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 7:59 PM To: 'Wikimedia Mailing List' Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach It seems to be a situation where there were no clear instructions, so people did what they thought was a good idea, but others thought it was a bad idea. No communications, now the blame is being spread without analysing the problem and proposing a solution. Not an unusual situation really. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mister Thrapostibongles Sent: 11 May 2019 08:53 To: [hidden email] Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach Hello all, There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons components of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education Newsletter https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects and so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd remarks were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded copyrighted content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't care." and "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? Thrapostibongles _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
In reply to this post by Peter Southwood
A large part of the problem is the disconnection between online and offline
communities or types of users. It is quite counterproductive having affiliates, outreach programs, whatever, reaching out to people out to the Wikimediaverse inviting them to use our projects without having any plans or means to have someone from the onwiki communities directly following and monitoring those activities. As Tomasz wrote: "*And in fact - probably the best thing would be to have in any outreach team at least one person having good knowledge about hostile Common's habits and how to effectively cope with them :-)*" This is very true, and IMO very much inescapable. Best, Paulo Peter Southwood <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia domingo, 12/05/2019 à(s) 18:59: > It seems to be a situation where there were no clear instructions, so > people did what they thought was a good idea, but others thought it was a > bad idea. No communications, now the blame is being spread without > analysing the problem and proposing a solution. Not an unusual situation > really. > Cheers, > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On > Behalf Of Mister Thrapostibongles > Sent: 11 May 2019 08:53 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach > > Hello all, > > There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons components > of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly > hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education > Newsletter > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project > uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons > deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects and > so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd remarks > were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded copyrighted > content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't care." > and > "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for > images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > Thrapostibongles > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
In reply to this post by Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
This is true. I verified and restored almost all the files. There was one
or two problems with students who uploaded an occasional derivative work (integrated in their own work), but almost all the files were OK, and correctly uploaded. The main problem here, IMO, was marking sourced stuff as "no source" without any explanation, marking stiff as derivative work without explaining or stating what the original work was, and then deleting it uncritically. I understand there is a tremendous backlog in Commons, and the community is tiny and most of the sysops (on which I include myself) are generally more interested in other activities than the regular management of the project, but IMO this sort of behavior should not be seen as acceptable. IMO it would be preferable to not delete or mark anything at all, and let the backlog grow freely, than to do it this way. On the other hand, in general the sysops with this kind of behavior are the most productive in the whole management of the project, and I feel I've no right to criticize when I have no plans to regularly help in what they are doing with such dedication. Best, Paulo Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia domingo, 12/05/2019 à(s) 20:18: > Well.. there where instructions. All the videos were supervised before > uploading, all the songs were perfectly cited at the descriptions and all > the own work was marked as own work. This are the instructiones to follow > when uploading to Commons. > ________________________________ > From: Wikimedia-l <[hidden email]> on behalf of > Peter Southwood <[hidden email]> > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 7:59 PM > To: 'Wikimedia Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach > > It seems to be a situation where there were no clear instructions, so > people did what they thought was a good idea, but others thought it was a > bad idea. No communications, now the blame is being spread without > analysing the problem and proposing a solution. Not an unusual situation > really. > Cheers, > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On > Behalf Of Mister Thrapostibongles > Sent: 11 May 2019 08:53 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach > > Hello all, > > There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons components > of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly > hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education > Newsletter > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project > uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons > deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects and > so concluded they were copyright violations. But some rather odd remarks > were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded copyrighted > content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't care." > and > "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for > images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > Thrapostibongles > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
In reply to this post by Paulo Santos Perneta
Major projects surely deal with a significant amount of uploads in an
efficient way. Vito Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 17:31 Paulo Santos Perneta < [hidden email]> ha scritto: > I absolutely disagree with this. A Wikipedia sysop do not necessarily has - > and from my experience, most of the time hasn't - the necessary skills to > deal with copyright. > > Best, > Paulo > > A domingo, 12 de mai de 2019, 14:35, Vi to <[hidden email]> > escreveu: > > > I wonder wheter local sysops could be allowed to delete/undelete images > on > > commons in order to reduce workload. Most risky commons' uploads come > from > > cw-upload, allow local sysops to handle them could work. > > > > Vito > > > > Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:31 James Heilman <[hidden email] > > > > ha scritto: > > > > > It is hard to get the admin bit there aswell. Is Commons interested in > > > having more admins? > > > > > > James > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:41 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for > > > > access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a > > > > copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be > > > > terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to see > > > > if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be > > > > reduced.[1] > > > > > > > > Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping > > > > image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make mass > > > > housekeeping very easy. > > > > > > > > A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image > > > > hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons > hat > > > > on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use than > > > > mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to suck > > > > up all the oxygen and volunteer time available. > > > > > > > > Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, that > > > > several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were > > > > originally interested have since retired. Without some positive short > > > > term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful > > > > experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away. > > > > > > > > Links > > > > 1. > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition > > > > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash > > > > > > > > Fae > > > > > > > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores > support > > > for > > > > > images that might be copyright violation, or both. > > > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the > > > > amount of > > > > > > material it has to deal with. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta < > > > > [hidden email]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or > > > capable > > > > to > > > > > > do > > > > > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz < > [hidden email]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all > undeleted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several > > > > > > GLAM-related > > > > > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page > describing > > > > what it > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can > > > > create a > > > > > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with > > > > Common's > > > > > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote > > you > > > > > > project > > > > > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do > > > something > > > > > > > similar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, > but > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright > > violating > > > > > > files a > > > > > > > > day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to > > cope > > > > with > > > > > > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after > > some > > > > time - > > > > > > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and the > > > other > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - > > screening > > > > > > uploads > > > > > > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > > > > > > [hidden email]> napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hello all, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the > > Commons > > > > > > > components > > > > > > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia > Commons: a > > > > highly > > > > > > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the > > > > Education > > > > > > > >> Newsletter > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach > > > > project > > > > > > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone > on > > > > Commons > > > > > > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be > student > > > > projects > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some > rather > > > odd > > > > > > > remarks > > > > > > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of > uploaded > > > > > > > copyrighted > > > > > > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that > > > doesn't > > > > > > care." > > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud > > > storage > > > > for > > > > > > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thrapostibongles > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > and > > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > > > , > > > > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email] > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > > > > > > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > > > > > > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email] > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Amir (he/him) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > James Heilman > > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [hidden email] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [hidden email] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [hidden email] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe> |
Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |