[Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

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[Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Fabian Tompsett
Thanks to Romaine for his comment:

"The education extension is a primitive form of what is needed. We need an
extension where users easily can form groups (namespace Groups: or
something, used by an extension), where they easily can see the recent
changes of edits of group members only, to be able to actively interact
with other group members and having a long term participation in Wikipedia.
Having software where users, interest groups or a group of editors from an
external organisation can work together."

At Wikimedia UK we are looking at taking this up in broader context,
editathons etc. and it would be great to hear of other peoples experiences
and their views.

Please see our page
<https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_and_the_Education_Program_Extension>
created in preparation for our Volunteer Strategy Gathering
<https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Volunteer_Strategy_Gathering/February_2015>
on Saturday 28th February.


all the best

Fabian Tompsett,
Volunteer Support Organiser,
Wikimedia UK,
Address: 56-64 Leonard St,
Shoreditch,
London EC2A 4LT
 Phone:020 7065 0990
*Mobile: *07840 455 746


Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Quim Gil-2
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Fabian Tompsett <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> At Wikimedia UK we are looking at taking this up in broader context,
> editathons etc. and it would be great to hear of other peoples experiences
> and their views.
>

Just a comment aside about the "etc". It is important to know when it is
good not to use a wiki for planning purposes. Wikis are very good for wiki
collaboration, and other tools are better suited for non-wiki activities
like i.e. software development. The Education Program extension is good to
coordinate wiki editing activities, and it might be also good for other
wiki activities like editathons.

For the "etc" (activities not based on wiki editing), you might want to
consider a project management tool like https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/,
which can perfectly satisfy the needs of non-technical projects and
processes.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Liam Wyatt
In reply to this post by Fabian Tompsett
On 3 February 2015 at 10:23, Fabian Tompsett <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> We need an
> extension where users easily can form groups (namespace Groups: or
> something, used by an extension), where they easily can see the recent
> changes of edits of group members only
>

Not precisely this, but related... Is there any plan to have "folders" in a
watchlist, and then the ability to make a specific folder visible (a.k.a.
"shared") to others?

Not only would this make it easier for people with very large watchlists to
manage their work more easily, but this would also mean that a group (e.g.
wikiproject, edithathon participants, classroom...) could easily subscribe
to a shared watchlist folder. This would make it easy for them to follow
each other's edits.
- A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's
draft pages.
- An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the
articles within the scope of the event.
- A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related
articles for members to more easily monitor.
- probably many other use-cases that might emerge...

Has this been discussed/suggested before?

-Liam
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

MZMcBride-2
Liam Wyatt wrote:
>Fabian Tompsett wrote:
>> We need an extension where users easily can form groups (namespace
>>Groups: or something, used by an extension), where they easily can see
>>the recent changes of edits of group members only
>
>Not precisely this, but related... Is there any plan to have "folders" in
>a watchlist, and then the ability to make a specific folder visible
>(a.k.a. "shared") to others?

https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2015-January/080168.html

"""
The project has been dubbed "Collections", and our pilot will let users
create and share collections of articles.
"""

>Not only would this make it easier for people with very large watchlists
>to manage their work more easily, but this would also mean that a group
>(e.g. wikiproject, edithathon participants, classroom...) could easily
>subscribe to a shared watchlist folder. This would make it easy for them
>to follow each other's edits.
>
>
>- A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their
>  student's draft pages.
>- An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the
>  articles within the scope of the event.
>- A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related
>  articles for members to more easily monitor.
>- probably many other use-cases that might emerge...
>
>Has this been discussed/suggested before?

Yes. :-)

I think the approach the Wikimedia Foundation mobile team is taking is
flawed, though. The proposed concept called "collections," in addition to
being a confusing name that's already in use by another tangentially
related extension, doesn't really leverage the fact that we already have
shared lists of pages called categories.

The current category system has a lot of challenges: inputting categories
is hard, renaming categories is hard, watching changes to category members
is hard, etc. There's _a lot_ of work to be done on the aging category
system, but the feature already exists and there's shared knowledge about
it. However, instead of a team working to improve categories, I imagine
we'll see a whole new effort built up around a vaguely similar idea
("collections") because it's a lot easier to make your own thing than
improve someone else's. This development anti-pattern has unfortunately
become fairly predictable, but it remains pernicious.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Quim Gil-2
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:23 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The proposed concept called "collections,"


Now the project has a different working name: Gather

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gather

doesn't really leverage the fact that we already have
> shared lists of pages called categories.
>

I wonder how would someone create a list of pages "My Favourite Music
Albums" using MediaWiki categories. How would thousands of users gather
thousands of pages using MediaWiki categories. How would these categories
be private, how would their owners avoid other users messing with them.

The end result of a personal selection of pages might look similar to a
MediaWiki category, but they are essentially different.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Federico Leva (Nemo)
In reply to this post by Liam Wyatt
Liam Wyatt, 03/02/2015 14:06:
> Not precisely this, but related... Is there any plan to have "folders" in a
> watchlist, and then the ability to make a specific folder visible (a.k.a.
> "shared") to others?
>
>[...]
> Has this been discussed/suggested before?

Only a few dozens times. See
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Watchlist_wishlist ; the proposal is
tracked at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T7875 and
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T9467 .

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Quim Gil-2
Quim Gil wrote:
>On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:23 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The proposed concept called "collections,"
>
>Now the project has a different working name: Gather
>
>https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gather

Thanks, good to know.

>>doesn't really leverage the fact that we already have
>> shared lists of pages called categories.
>
>I wonder how would someone create a list of pages "My Favourite Music
>Albums" using MediaWiki categories.

Perhaps some kind of prefixing scheme. For example, we could have a
category named "User:Example/My Favourite Music Albums". Or we could have
"Example's favourite music albums"; why not?

MediaWiki categories already support the idea of "user-facing" categories
and "hidden" categories (e.g., article maintenance categories are
typically hidden on the English Wikipedia). We could extend this model or
redo it to be more flexible. This would be closer to iterative development.

> How would thousands of users gather thousands of pages using MediaWiki
>categories.

Erm, probably in the same way thousands of users already gather thousands
of pages into categories? :-)  Wikimedia has a pretty large collection of
categories, some of which contain hundreds of thousands of items. We scale!

> How would these categories be private, how would their owners avoid
>other users messing with them.
>
>The end result of a personal selection of pages might look similar to a
>MediaWiki category, but they are essentially different.

The watchlist model is probably broken, so I'm not sure that it's is
sensible to use it as a guide for future development. Though arguably the
same could easily be said about categories.

As for other users messing with category membership, we value openness
around here. Think about the way we treat user pages: we don't prevent
other users from improving them, even though they have somebody else's
name on them. If you make a list called "1990s pop bands", wouldn't it be
great if others could update it? That's basically the current category
system. And if we also had "Example's 1990s pop bands," others probably
wouldn't update it because they're not Example, but they might
occasionally add or remove a page and you might really enjoy that.

The category system is deficient. We have one of the clunkiest systems to
manage categories. HotCat and VisualEditor make adding a category vaguely
easier, but the software shouldn't be so crippled out of the box. And even
a decent input system doesn't resolve wanting to, for example, rename a
category in MediaWiki. Or track category membership over time. And each
challenge that categories face, this new product (Gather or Collections or
whatever) will face almost exactly the same issues.

There's so much room for improvement in the category system and it seems
like the mobile team really wants lists of pages, which MediaWiki core
already has in the form of categories. It seems like a win-win.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Samir Elsharbaty
Hello everyone,

As a user of the Education extension, for both Wikipedia Education Program
work and non-WEP work, I would recommend using it for other different
purposes. I know many people, including me, who used it to track editathon
activity, working groups and many other projects. It seems that the
extension already covers most of what was suggested here:

>- A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their
>  student's draft pages.
>- An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the
>  articles within the scope of the event.
>- A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related
>  articles for members to more easily monitor.
>- probably many other use-cases that might emerge...

If this is the case why shall we have a new extension with the same
features?

Please have a look at this page which covers the features and use of the Ed
extension:
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Extension

Also this learning pattern would help understanding how it works:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/Using_the_education_extension

Please let me know if you have any questions,

Thank you!

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:56 AM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Quim Gil wrote:
> >On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:23 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> The proposed concept called "collections,"
> >
> >Now the project has a different working name: Gather
> >
> >https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gather
>
> Thanks, good to know.
>
> >>doesn't really leverage the fact that we already have
> >> shared lists of pages called categories.
> >
> >I wonder how would someone create a list of pages "My Favourite Music
> >Albums" using MediaWiki categories.
>
> Perhaps some kind of prefixing scheme. For example, we could have a
> category named "User:Example/My Favourite Music Albums". Or we could have
> "Example's favourite music albums"; why not?
>
> MediaWiki categories already support the idea of "user-facing" categories
> and "hidden" categories (e.g., article maintenance categories are
> typically hidden on the English Wikipedia). We could extend this model or
> redo it to be more flexible. This would be closer to iterative development.
>
> > How would thousands of users gather thousands of pages using MediaWiki
> >categories.
>
> Erm, probably in the same way thousands of users already gather thousands
> of pages into categories? :-)  Wikimedia has a pretty large collection of
> categories, some of which contain hundreds of thousands of items. We scale!
>
> > How would these categories be private, how would their owners avoid
> >other users messing with them.
> >
> >The end result of a personal selection of pages might look similar to a
> >MediaWiki category, but they are essentially different.
>
> The watchlist model is probably broken, so I'm not sure that it's is
> sensible to use it as a guide for future development. Though arguably the
> same could easily be said about categories.
>
> As for other users messing with category membership, we value openness
> around here. Think about the way we treat user pages: we don't prevent
> other users from improving them, even though they have somebody else's
> name on them. If you make a list called "1990s pop bands", wouldn't it be
> great if others could update it? That's basically the current category
> system. And if we also had "Example's 1990s pop bands," others probably
> wouldn't update it because they're not Example, but they might
> occasionally add or remove a page and you might really enjoy that.
>
> The category system is deficient. We have one of the clunkiest systems to
> manage categories. HotCat and VisualEditor make adding a category vaguely
> easier, but the software shouldn't be so crippled out of the box. And even
> a decent input system doesn't resolve wanting to, for example, rename a
> category in MediaWiki. Or track category membership over time. And each
> challenge that categories face, this new product (Gather or Collections or
> whatever) will face almost exactly the same issues.
>
> There's so much room for improvement in the category system and it seems
> like the mobile team really wants lists of pages, which MediaWiki core
> already has in the form of categories. It seems like a win-win.
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
Samir Elsharbaty,
Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program
Wikimedia Foundation
+2.011.200.696.77
[hidden email]
education.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Samir Elsharbaty, 04/02/2015 03:08:

> It seems that the
> extension already covers most of what was suggested here:
>
>> - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their
>>   student's draft pages.
>> - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the
>>   articles within the scope of the event.
>> - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related
>>   articles for members to more easily monitor.
>> - probably many other use-cases that might emerge...

Ah, does it. My understanding is that this has been considered feature
bloat, to be removed in a rewrite of the extension.
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Editor_campaigns

If it works for you, however, it can hopefully scale. I suggest that you
comment on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Gather to suggest they
split the shared watchlist feature out of the Education extension

>
> If this is the case why shall we have a new extension with the same
> features?
>
> Please have a look at this page which covers the features and use of the Ed
> extension:
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Extension
>
> Also this learning pattern would help understanding how it works:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/Using_the_education_extension

These are not appropriate places for documentation of a MediaWiki
extension. Please move to the Help namespace of mediawiki.org.

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Anna Koval
Dear Nemo,

There is, of course, other documentation on mediawiki already.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Education_Program
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Education_Program

However, having additional how-to type pages in the help namespace is a
great idea. I didn't realize that there were not already any help pages on
mediawiki about the education program extension. Thank you for pointing
that out. We can plan to add some.

It is my understanding that Meta and Outreach wikis actually are
appropriate places to share information about the this extension in these
contexts.

On Meta wiki, that page is part of the Learning Pattern Library, and as
such, it explains a "problem" that the extension "solves".

On Outreach wiki, that page provides information for education program
volunteers who might be wish to more learn about it in order to work with
their communities to enable it on their projects.

It is true that much of the information, on Outreach, in particular, is
somewhat technical in nature, and somewhat duplicative of information that
is available on mediawiki.org, but that is that something I am working on
updating and improving. I welcome your input on that process; we could
discuss it on the talk page.

Kind regards,

Anna

--

Anna Koval, M.Ed.
Manager, Wikipedia Education Program
Wikimedia Foundation
+1.415.839.6885 x6729
[hidden email]
education.wikimedia.org

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Samir Elsharbaty, 04/02/2015 03:08:
>
>> It seems that the
>> extension already covers most of what was suggested here:
>>
>>  - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their
>>>   student's draft pages.
>>> - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the
>>>   articles within the scope of the event.
>>> - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related
>>>   articles for members to more easily monitor.
>>> - probably many other use-cases that might emerge...
>>>
>>
> Ah, does it. My understanding is that this has been considered feature
> bloat, to be removed in a rewrite of the extension.
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Editor_campaigns
>
> If it works for you, however, it can hopefully scale. I suggest that you
> comment on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Gather to suggest they
> split the shared watchlist feature out of the Education extension
>
>
>> If this is the case why shall we have a new extension with the same
>> features?
>>
>> Please have a look at this page which covers the features and use of the
>> Ed
>> extension:
>> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Extension
>>
>> Also this learning pattern would help understanding how it works:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/
>> Using_the_education_extension
>>
>
> These are not appropriate places for documentation of a MediaWiki
> extension. Please move to the Help namespace of mediawiki.org.
>
> Nemo
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Pine W
Hi Anna,

In the long run I think it would be beneficial to move at least some of the
content of Outreach into LPL where it would be easier to search.

Perhaps you can enlighten me about the purpose of keeping Outreach separate
from Meta. I think the idea is that Outreach is easier to navigate for
outsiders than Meta is. However we could redirect outreach.wikimedia.org to
a namespace on Meta that is similar to the Grants namespace with a
restricted search option. Particularly after the recent LPL upgrades, I
think it would be good to consider fully merging Outreach into Meta. What
do you think?

Pine
On Feb 4, 2015 6:35 AM, "Anna Koval" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Nemo,
>
> There is, of course, other documentation on mediawiki already.
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Education_Program
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Education_Program
>
> However, having additional how-to type pages in the help namespace is a
> great idea. I didn't realize that there were not already any help pages on
> mediawiki about the education program extension. Thank you for pointing
> that out. We can plan to add some.
>
> It is my understanding that Meta and Outreach wikis actually are
> appropriate places to share information about the this extension in these
> contexts.
>
> On Meta wiki, that page is part of the Learning Pattern Library, and as
> such, it explains a "problem" that the extension "solves".
>
> On Outreach wiki, that page provides information for education program
> volunteers who might be wish to more learn about it in order to work with
> their communities to enable it on their projects.
>
> It is true that much of the information, on Outreach, in particular, is
> somewhat technical in nature, and somewhat duplicative of information that
> is available on mediawiki.org, but that is that something I am working on
> updating and improving. I welcome your input on that process; we could
> discuss it on the talk page.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Anna
>
> --
>
> Anna Koval, M.Ed.
> Manager, Wikipedia Education Program
> Wikimedia Foundation
> +1.415.839.6885 x6729
> [hidden email]
> education.wikimedia.org
>
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Samir Elsharbaty, 04/02/2015 03:08:
> >
> >> It seems that the
> >> extension already covers most of what was suggested here:
> >>
> >>  - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their
> >>>   student's draft pages.
> >>> - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the
> >>>   articles within the scope of the event.
> >>> - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related
> >>>   articles for members to more easily monitor.
> >>> - probably many other use-cases that might emerge...
> >>>
> >>
> > Ah, does it. My understanding is that this has been considered feature
> > bloat, to be removed in a rewrite of the extension.
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Editor_campaigns
> >
> > If it works for you, however, it can hopefully scale. I suggest that you
> > comment on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Gather to suggest they
> > split the shared watchlist feature out of the Education extension
> >
> >
> >> If this is the case why shall we have a new extension with the same
> >> features?
> >>
> >> Please have a look at this page which covers the features and use of the
> >> Ed
> >> extension:
> >> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Extension
> >>
> >> Also this learning pattern would help understanding how it works:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/
> >> Using_the_education_extension
> >>
> >
> > These are not appropriate places for documentation of a MediaWiki
> > extension. Please move to the Help namespace of mediawiki.org.
> >
> > Nemo
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Anna Koval
Dear Pine,

Thanks for your question.

I think that the idea of merging Outreach into Meta would probably benefit
from some discussion among the users of both wikis, to see if such a change
would work for them. :)

For instance, the Meta community would need to be comfortable with folding
in functionaries from Outreach -- just as Outreach functionaries would need
to be comfortable with Meta functionaries operating in Outreach space --
unless there is some technical way to restrict administrators to only those
projects for which they were chosen.

Obviously, either way, if such a merger happened, we would need to maintain
many redirects, since printed documents
<https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Brochures> refer to specific
pages within Outreach -- and we would have to make sure to maintain those
redirects if pages on Meta were moved.

I don't know all of the history behind why Outreach and Meta are separate,
since it predates my work in the movement. What matters to me, personally,
is best coordination of the work, wherever that happens.

Your thoughts on this are welcome over at the Outreach wiki village pump.

Kind regards,

Anna


--

Anna Koval, M.Ed.
Manager, Wikipedia Education Program
Wikimedia Foundation
+1.415.839.6885 x6729
[hidden email]
education.wikimedia.org

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Anna,
>
> In the long run I think it would be beneficial to move at least some of the
> content of Outreach into LPL where it would be easier to search.
>
> Perhaps you can enlighten me about the purpose of keeping Outreach separate
> from Meta. I think the idea is that Outreach is easier to navigate for
> outsiders than Meta is. However we could redirect outreach.wikimedia.org
> to
> a namespace on Meta that is similar to the Grants namespace with a
> restricted search option. Particularly after the recent LPL upgrades, I
> think it would be good to consider fully merging Outreach into Meta. What
> do you think?
>
> Pine
> On Feb 4, 2015 6:35 AM, "Anna Koval" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Dear Nemo,
> >
> > There is, of course, other documentation on mediawiki already.
> >
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Education_Program
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Education_Program
> >
> > However, having additional how-to type pages in the help namespace is a
> > great idea. I didn't realize that there were not already any help pages
> on
> > mediawiki about the education program extension. Thank you for pointing
> > that out. We can plan to add some.
> >
> > It is my understanding that Meta and Outreach wikis actually are
> > appropriate places to share information about the this extension in these
> > contexts.
> >
> > On Meta wiki, that page is part of the Learning Pattern Library, and as
> > such, it explains a "problem" that the extension "solves".
> >
> > On Outreach wiki, that page provides information for education program
> > volunteers who might be wish to more learn about it in order to work with
> > their communities to enable it on their projects.
> >
> > It is true that much of the information, on Outreach, in particular, is
> > somewhat technical in nature, and somewhat duplicative of information
> that
> > is available on mediawiki.org, but that is that something I am working
> on
> > updating and improving. I welcome your input on that process; we could
> > discuss it on the talk page.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Anna
> >
> > --
> >
> > Anna Koval, M.Ed.
> > Manager, Wikipedia Education Program
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > +1.415.839.6885 x6729
> > [hidden email]
> > education.wikimedia.org
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Samir Elsharbaty, 04/02/2015 03:08:
> > >
> > >> It seems that the
> > >> extension already covers most of what was suggested here:
> > >>
> > >>  - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their
> > >>>   student's draft pages.
> > >>> - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the
> > >>>   articles within the scope of the event.
> > >>> - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group
> related
> > >>>   articles for members to more easily monitor.
> > >>> - probably many other use-cases that might emerge...
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > Ah, does it. My understanding is that this has been considered feature
> > > bloat, to be removed in a rewrite of the extension.
> > > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Editor_campaigns
> > >
> > > If it works for you, however, it can hopefully scale. I suggest that
> you
> > > comment on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Gather to suggest they
> > > split the shared watchlist feature out of the Education extension
> > >
> > >
> > >> If this is the case why shall we have a new extension with the same
> > >> features?
> > >>
> > >> Please have a look at this page which covers the features and use of
> the
> > >> Ed
> > >> extension:
> > >> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Extension
> > >>
> > >> Also this learning pattern would help understanding how it works:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/
> > >> Using_the_education_extension
> > >>
> > >
> > > These are not appropriate places for documentation of a MediaWiki
> > > extension. Please move to the Help namespace of mediawiki.org.
> > >
> > > Nemo
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Pine W
Hi Anna,

I have made a more detailed proposal at
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Village_pump#Proposal:_merge_the_Outreach_wiki_into_the_Meta_wiki.
Please comment.

Thanks!

Pine

*This is an Encyclopedia* <https://www.wikipedia.org/>






*One gateway to the wide garden of knowledge, where lies The deep rock of
our past, in which we must delve The well of our future,The clear water we
must leave untainted for those who come after us,The fertile earth, in
which truth may grow in bright places, tended by many hands,And the broad
fall of sunshine, warming our first steps toward knowing how much we do not
know.*

*—Catherine Munro*

On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Anna Koval <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Pine,
>
> Thanks for your question.
>
> I think that the idea of merging Outreach into Meta would probably benefit
> from some discussion among the users of both wikis, to see if such a change
> would work for them. :)
>
> For instance, the Meta community would need to be comfortable with folding
> in functionaries from Outreach -- just as Outreach functionaries would need
> to be comfortable with Meta functionaries operating in Outreach space --
> unless there is some technical way to restrict administrators to only those
> projects for which they were chosen.
>
> Obviously, either way, if such a merger happened, we would need to maintain
> many redirects, since printed documents
> <https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Brochures> refer to
> specific
> pages within Outreach -- and we would have to make sure to maintain those
> redirects if pages on Meta were moved.
>
> I don't know all of the history behind why Outreach and Meta are separate,
> since it predates my work in the movement. What matters to me, personally,
> is best coordination of the work, wherever that happens.
>
> Your thoughts on this are welcome over at the Outreach wiki village pump.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Anna
>
>
> --
>
> Anna Koval, M.Ed.
> Manager, Wikipedia Education Program
> Wikimedia Foundation
> +1.415.839.6885 x6729
> [hidden email]
> education.wikimedia.org
>
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Anna,
> >
> > In the long run I think it would be beneficial to move at least some of
> the
> > content of Outreach into LPL where it would be easier to search.
> >
> > Perhaps you can enlighten me about the purpose of keeping Outreach
> separate
> > from Meta. I think the idea is that Outreach is easier to navigate for
> > outsiders than Meta is. However we could redirect outreach.wikimedia.org
> > to
> > a namespace on Meta that is similar to the Grants namespace with a
> > restricted search option. Particularly after the recent LPL upgrades, I
> > think it would be good to consider fully merging Outreach into Meta. What
> > do you think?
> >
> > Pine
> > On Feb 4, 2015 6:35 AM, "Anna Koval" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Nemo,
> > >
> > > There is, of course, other documentation on mediawiki already.
> > >
> > > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Education_Program
> > > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Education_Program
> > >
> > > However, having additional how-to type pages in the help namespace is a
> > > great idea. I didn't realize that there were not already any help pages
> > on
> > > mediawiki about the education program extension. Thank you for pointing
> > > that out. We can plan to add some.
> > >
> > > It is my understanding that Meta and Outreach wikis actually are
> > > appropriate places to share information about the this extension in
> these
> > > contexts.
> > >
> > > On Meta wiki, that page is part of the Learning Pattern Library, and as
> > > such, it explains a "problem" that the extension "solves".
> > >
> > > On Outreach wiki, that page provides information for education program
> > > volunteers who might be wish to more learn about it in order to work
> with
> > > their communities to enable it on their projects.
> > >
> > > It is true that much of the information, on Outreach, in particular, is
> > > somewhat technical in nature, and somewhat duplicative of information
> > that
> > > is available on mediawiki.org, but that is that something I am working
> > on
> > > updating and improving. I welcome your input on that process; we could
> > > discuss it on the talk page.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Anna
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Anna Koval, M.Ed.
> > > Manager, Wikipedia Education Program
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > +1.415.839.6885 x6729
> > > [hidden email]
> > > education.wikimedia.org
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Samir Elsharbaty, 04/02/2015 03:08:
> > > >
> > > >> It seems that the
> > > >> extension already covers most of what was suggested here:
> > > >>
> > > >>  - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their
> > > >>>   student's draft pages.
> > > >>> - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the
> > > >>>   articles within the scope of the event.
> > > >>> - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group
> > related
> > > >>>   articles for members to more easily monitor.
> > > >>> - probably many other use-cases that might emerge...
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > > Ah, does it. My understanding is that this has been considered
> feature
> > > > bloat, to be removed in a rewrite of the extension.
> > > > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Editor_campaigns
> > > >
> > > > If it works for you, however, it can hopefully scale. I suggest that
> > you
> > > > comment on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Gather to suggest
> they
> > > > split the shared watchlist feature out of the Education extension
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> If this is the case why shall we have a new extension with the same
> > > >> features?
> > > >>
> > > >> Please have a look at this page which covers the features and use of
> > the
> > > >> Ed
> > > >> extension:
> > > >> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Extension
> > > >>
> > > >> Also this learning pattern would help understanding how it works:
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/
> > > >> Using_the_education_extension
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > These are not appropriate places for documentation of a MediaWiki
> > > > extension. Please move to the Help namespace of mediawiki.org.
> > > >
> > > > Nemo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Andrea Zanni-2
In reply to this post by Liam Wyatt
Also related...
Maybe I am not aware of an existing tool, but:
often, tutors need to control the wikiwork of some users.
This happens when we make and editathon, a course, a lesson.
Wikimetrics was supposed to help us with this, but it has weird metrics,
and nobody understands them.

Aubrey


On Tuesday, February 3, 2015, Liam Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3 February 2015 at 10:23, Fabian Tompsett <
> [hidden email] <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > We need an
> > extension where users easily can form groups (namespace Groups: or
> > something, used by an extension), where they easily can see the recent
> > changes of edits of group members only
> >
>
> Not precisely this, but related... Is there any plan to have "folders" in a
> watchlist, and then the ability to make a specific folder visible (a.k.a.
> "shared") to others?
>
> Not only would this make it easier for people with very large watchlists to
> manage their work more easily, but this would also mean that a group (e.g.
> wikiproject, edithathon participants, classroom...) could easily subscribe
> to a shared watchlist folder. This would make it easy for them to follow
> each other's edits.
> - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's
> draft pages.
> - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the
> articles within the scope of the event.
> - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related
> articles for members to more easily monitor.
> - probably many other use-cases that might emerge...
>
> Has this been discussed/suggested before?
>
> -Liam
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension

Samir Elsharbaty
Hi Andrea,

Do you use the education extension to import usernames to WikiMetrics? And
what seems to be the issue with WikiMetrics results?

Would you please have a look at these learning patterns on using Wikimetris:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimetrics_learning_patterns

And this one on using the education extension:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/Using_the_education_extension

They may have the answers to your questions. If your problem persists,
please let me know.

I hope that helps!

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Andrea Zanni <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Also related...
> Maybe I am not aware of an existing tool, but:
> often, tutors need to control the wikiwork of some users.
> This happens when we make and editathon, a course, a lesson.
> Wikimetrics was supposed to help us with this, but it has weird metrics,
> and nobody understands them.
>
> Aubrey
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 3, 2015, Liam Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 3 February 2015 at 10:23, Fabian Tompsett <
> > [hidden email] <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > We need an
> > > extension where users easily can form groups (namespace Groups: or
> > > something, used by an extension), where they easily can see the recent
> > > changes of edits of group members only
> > >
> >
> > Not precisely this, but related... Is there any plan to have "folders"
> in a
> > watchlist, and then the ability to make a specific folder visible (a.k.a.
> > "shared") to others?
> >
> > Not only would this make it easier for people with very large watchlists
> to
> > manage their work more easily, but this would also mean that a group
> (e.g.
> > wikiproject, edithathon participants, classroom...) could easily
> subscribe
> > to a shared watchlist folder. This would make it easy for them to follow
> > each other's edits.
> > - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their
> student's
> > draft pages.
> > - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the
> > articles within the scope of the event.
> > - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related
> > articles for members to more easily monitor.
> > - probably many other use-cases that might emerge...
> >
> > Has this been discussed/suggested before?
> >
> > -Liam
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
Samir Elsharbaty,
Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program
Wikimedia Foundation
+2.011.200.696.77
[hidden email]
education.wikimedia.org
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