[Wikimedia-l] “For Cause”

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[Wikimedia-l] “For Cause”

jmh649
Following my removal from the WMF board, Jimmy Wales publicly stated

“But in this case, it isn't relevant as this was a removal for cause.--Jimbo
Wales <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales> (talk
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#top>) 08:54, 30
December 2015 (UTC)”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_201

If I was removed “for cause” by my fellow board members I would like to
request a written statement outlining what this cause was. In a Dec 30th,
2015 personal email JW touched on two potential reasons but they are
unfounded. If these are indeed the reasons I was removed, I feel a public
discussion would be useful.

If JW was not speaking in an official capacity and I was not removed “for
cause”, I would like to request a statement from the board to that effect.

Sincerely
--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] “For Cause”

Andreas Kolbe-2
On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 10:09 AM, James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In a Dec 30th, 2015 personal email JW touched on two potential reasons but
> they are unfounded.



I've lost count of the number of times Jimmy Wales said in recent months
that he would know "within a few days" whether it was fine to publish that
Dec 30th personal email, that he was urging the board towards full
transparency, that all would be clear on Monday ... and then ... nothing.
Just empty promises, without any follow-up to say whether the email will or
will not be published.

Is anyone on the board actually preventing Jimmy (or James) from publishing
that personal email?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] “For Cause”

Fæ
Let's get real. Let's stop apologising for Jimmy Wales or pretending
he's our Royal family and can never be correctly held to account for
his actions.

We can say without any doubt that Jimmy is a bully, he misuses
"confidentiality" as a political weapon, and he has repeatedly been
emotionally unable to back down from any of his obviously misleading
statements, even when directly caught out with demonstrable facts. If
any trustee should be removed "for cause", it would be Jimmy. The
community should be able to hold up a mirror and call his misuse of
his trustee position "utter fucking bullshit". He is the only trustee
with a very direct commercial conflict of interest, yet his ownership
of Wikia has never been publicly declared, nor has Jimmy ever recused
from open WMF board discussions and decisions because of that direct
and highly profitable interest.

This nonsense has been going on for a decade. Jimmy is never going
change, and he's never going to give up his honorary Founder's seat
without being forced off it with a massive political crowbar. A meta
RFC to get rid of the Founder's seat, and thereby force Jimmy to stand
for election, may be appropriate and necessary now, certainly the
current WMF trustees are incapable of discussing Jimmy in any frank
way, despite their private views.

P.S. Andreas, I suggest adding to your list of failed promises his
recent speedily arranged trip to San Francisco where he made several
claims that he was going to meet WMF employees to get the facts behind
their discontent, and the results were going to be published. I do
hope that the board covered all his expenses, which were perfectly
legitimate. However presumably the WMF board were expecting a
published outcome and report to the board. Presumably the meetings
either failed to happen, or went very badly, perhaps they were
critical of the board and Jimmy, as there has been a profound silence
from Jimmy and the rest of the trustees about what those meetings.
Surely everyone now gets the idea that the WMF board has a serious
lack of transparency without Jimmy rubbing everyone's nose in it?

Thanks,
Fae

On 5 May 2016 at 14:26, Andreas Kolbe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 10:09 AM, James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> In a Dec 30th, 2015 personal email JW touched on two potential reasons but
>> they are unfounded.
>
>
>
> I've lost count of the number of times Jimmy Wales said in recent months
> that he would know "within a few days" whether it was fine to publish that
> Dec 30th personal email, that he was urging the board towards full
> transparency, that all would be clear on Monday ... and then ... nothing.
> Just empty promises, without any follow-up to say whether the email will or
> will not be published.
>
> Is anyone on the board actually preventing Jimmy (or James) from publishing
> that personal email?

--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] “For Cause”

Jimmy Wales-4
In reply to this post by jmh649
I was speaking only for myself, and I am happy to retract the comment
fully and without reservation.

The reasons for the removal have been recently put forward with
significant clarity in Denny's statement.

I was speaking colloquially in the sense that the removal was not done
capriciously or randomly but for reasons that the board thought
meaningful.  I did not know and do not know the full legal meaning of
the phrase "for cause" and meant nothing more than that people had
reasons that they thought sufficient.

As I told James before the meeting, I decided to vote with the majority,
whatever that may be, on the principle that if he really had lost the
support of the rest of the board, he would not be able to function
effectively.  As I have said, if James were to be re-elected by the
community, I would agree with his return to the board.


On 05/05/2016 02:09, James Heilman wrote:

>
> Following my removal from the WMF board, Jimmy Wales publicly stated
>
>
> “But in this case, it isn't relevant as this was a removal for
> cause.--Jimbo Wales
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales>(talk
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#top>) 08:54, 30
> December 2015 (UTC)”
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_201
>
>
> If I was removed “for cause” by my fellow board members I would like
> to request a written statement outlining what this cause was. In a Dec
> 30th, 2015 personal email JW touched on two potential reasons but they
> are unfounded. If these are indeed the reasons I was removed, I feel a
> public discussion would be useful.
>
>
> If JW was not speaking in an official capacity and I was not removed
> “for cause”, I would like to request a statement from the board to
> that effect.
>
> Sincerely
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com <http://www.opentextbookofmedicine.com>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] “For Cause”

Pavel Richter-3
In reply to this post by Fæ
Fae,

On 5 May 2016 at 15:56, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> We can say without any doubt that
> ​...
>

​Please say "I" when you are speaking for yourself.

> ​
>


> The
> ​ ​
> community should be able to hold up a mirror and call his misuse
> ​....
>

You speak for yourself here, not for "the community". ​



> I do
> ​ ​
> hope
> ​....
>

​See, it is not that complicated.



> Surely everyone now gets the idea
> ​....
>

​No, Fae, you can do better than that. You do not know what everybody does
or get.

All the best,

Pavel
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] “For Cause”

jmh649
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales-4
Jimmy, thank you for retracting this statement.

James

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I was speaking only for myself, and I am happy to retract the comment
> fully and without reservation.
>
> The reasons for the removal have been recently put forward with
> significant clarity in Denny's statement.
>
> I was speaking colloquially in the sense that the removal was not done
> capriciously or randomly but for reasons that the board thought
> meaningful.  I did not know and do not know the full legal meaning of the
> phrase "for cause" and meant nothing more than that people had reasons that
> they thought sufficient.
>
> As I told James before the meeting, I decided to vote with the majority,
> whatever that may be, on the principle that if he really had lost the
> support of the rest of the board, he would not be able to function
> effectively.  As I have said, if James were to be re-elected by the
> community, I would agree with his return to the board.
>
> On 05/05/2016 02:09, James Heilman wrote:
>
> Following my removal from the WMF board, Jimmy Wales publicly stated
>
> “But in this case, it isn't relevant as this was a removal for cause.--Jimbo
> Wales <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales> (talk
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#top>) 08:54, 30
> December 2015 (UTC)”
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_201>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_201
>
> If I was removed “for cause” by my fellow board members I would like to
> request a written statement outlining what this cause was. In a Dec 30th,
> 2015 personal email JW touched on two potential reasons but they are
> unfounded. If these are indeed the reasons I was removed, I feel a public
> discussion would be useful.
>
> If JW was not speaking in an official capacity and I was not removed “for
> cause”, I would like to request a statement from the board to that effect.
>
> Sincerely
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
>
>
>


--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] “For Cause”

Atsme
Then without further delay, his reappointment should happen ASAP.  I don’t understand why it should go back to the community for reelection when it was a Board decision to remove him.  The Board should simply apologize and reinstate James Hellman now.

Betty Wills (Atsme)

> On May 5, 2016, at 12:06 PM, James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Jimmy, thank you for retracting this statement.
>
> James
>
> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I was speaking only for myself, and I am happy to retract the comment
>> fully and without reservation.
>>
>> The reasons for the removal have been recently put forward with
>> significant clarity in Denny's statement.
>>
>> I was speaking colloquially in the sense that the removal was not done
>> capriciously or randomly but for reasons that the board thought
>> meaningful.  I did not know and do not know the full legal meaning of the
>> phrase "for cause" and meant nothing more than that people had reasons that
>> they thought sufficient.
>>
>> As I told James before the meeting, I decided to vote with the majority,
>> whatever that may be, on the principle that if he really had lost the
>> support of the rest of the board, he would not be able to function
>> effectively.  As I have said, if James were to be re-elected by the
>> community, I would agree with his return to the board.
>>
>> On 05/05/2016 02:09, James Heilman wrote:
>>
>> Following my removal from the WMF board, Jimmy Wales publicly stated
>>
>> “But in this case, it isn't relevant as this was a removal for cause.--Jimbo
>> Wales <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales> (talk
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#top>) 08:54, 30
>> December 2015 (UTC)”
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_201>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_201
>>
>> If I was removed “for cause” by my fellow board members I would like to
>> request a written statement outlining what this cause was. In a Dec 30th,
>> 2015 personal email JW touched on two potential reasons but they are
>> unfounded. If these are indeed the reasons I was removed, I feel a public
>> discussion would be useful.
>>
>> If JW was not speaking in an official capacity and I was not removed “for
>> cause”, I would like to request a statement from the board to that effect.
>>
>> Sincerely
>> --
>> James Heilman
>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>>
>> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
>> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] “For Cause”

jmh649
Thanks Atsma

I would be happy to return to the board. I ran initially as I believe our
success will be greatest when the WMF and community are working together as
equals. Of course, Katherine taking over as intern ED is a big step towards
this goal. I believe I can still contribute substantially to this end.

James

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 7:45 PM, Atsme <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Then without further delay, his reappointment should happen ASAP.  I don’t
> understand why it should go back to the community for reelection when it
> was a Board decision to remove him.  The Board should simply apologize and
> reinstate James Hellman now.
>
> Betty Wills (Atsme)
>
> > On May 5, 2016, at 12:06 PM, James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Jimmy, thank you for retracting this statement.
> >
> > James
> >
> > On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I was speaking only for myself, and I am happy to retract the comment
> >> fully and without reservation.
> >>
> >> The reasons for the removal have been recently put forward with
> >> significant clarity in Denny's statement.
> >>
> >> I was speaking colloquially in the sense that the removal was not done
> >> capriciously or randomly but for reasons that the board thought
> >> meaningful.  I did not know and do not know the full legal meaning of
> the
> >> phrase "for cause" and meant nothing more than that people had reasons
> that
> >> they thought sufficient.
> >>
> >> As I told James before the meeting, I decided to vote with the majority,
> >> whatever that may be, on the principle that if he really had lost the
> >> support of the rest of the board, he would not be able to function
> >> effectively.  As I have said, if James were to be re-elected by the
> >> community, I would agree with his return to the board.
> >>
> >> On 05/05/2016 02:09, James Heilman wrote:
> >>
> >> Following my removal from the WMF board, Jimmy Wales publicly stated
> >>
> >> “But in this case, it isn't relevant as this was a removal for
> cause.--Jimbo
> >> Wales <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales> (talk
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#top>) 08:54, 30
> >> December 2015 (UTC)”
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_201>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_201
> >>
> >> If I was removed “for cause” by my fellow board members I would like to
> >> request a written statement outlining what this cause was. In a Dec
> 30th,
> >> 2015 personal email JW touched on two potential reasons but they are
> >> unfounded. If these are indeed the reasons I was removed, I feel a
> public
> >> discussion would be useful.
> >>
> >> If JW was not speaking in an official capacity and I was not removed
> “for
> >> cause”, I would like to request a statement from the board to that
> effect.
> >>
> >> Sincerely
> >> --
> >> James Heilman
> >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >>
> >> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> >> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >
> > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>



--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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