[Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

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[Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Andy Mabbett-2
I've split this from a more general thread, for convenience...


On 3 December 2014 at 01:16, Megan Hernandez <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Starting today, banners are being shown to 100% of anonymous readers on
> English Wikipedia in the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

How much money do we expect to raise (or did we last year), from the
UK? How much of the money raised from the UK will attract "Gift
Aid"[*] tax releif?


[* Gift AId is a UK scheme where the government gives, to a charity,
tax paid by a  donor. For every £80 such a donor gives, the charty
would receive £100]

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
A similar possibility is in existence in the Netherlands... National
charities can easily get such a status. It is possible for international
organisations but it is more difficult..

In order to optimise fundraisers it is extremely relevant that we optimise
it for our donors. That makes it very much in need of local efforts.

As it is we lose 50% of the giftst of our donors in the Netherlands to the
taxman.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 4 December 2014 at 22:10, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've split this from a more general thread, for convenience...
>
>
> On 3 December 2014 at 01:16, Megan Hernandez <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Starting today, banners are being shown to 100% of anonymous readers on
> > English Wikipedia in the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
>
> How much money do we expect to raise (or did we last year), from the
> UK? How much of the money raised from the UK will attract "Gift
> Aid"[*] tax releif?
>
>
> [* Gift AId is a UK scheme where the government gives, to a charity,
> tax paid by a  donor. For every £80 such a donor gives, the charty
> would receive £100]
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Russavia
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett-2
All

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:10 AM, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> How much money do we expect to raise (or did we last year), from the
> UK? How much of the money raised from the UK will attract "Gift
> Aid"[*] tax releif?

I've seen figures of $500,000 being mentioned in relation to lost gift
aid. And also consider that with gift aid being taken out of the
equation this will likely result in a drop in donations.

It's not chump change that has been lost, so there has to be some
serious issues within WMUK that need fixing. Let's hope that chapter
can get its act together in the future.

Russavia

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
It is NOT the chapter that has to change its ways.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On 5 December 2014 at 11:27, Russavia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All
>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:10 AM, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > How much money do we expect to raise (or did we last year), from the
> > UK? How much of the money raised from the UK will attract "Gift
> > Aid"[*] tax releif?
>
> I've seen figures of $500,000 being mentioned in relation to lost gift
> aid. And also consider that with gift aid being taken out of the
> equation this will likely result in a drop in donations.
>
> It's not chump change that has been lost, so there has to be some
> serious issues within WMUK that need fixing. Let's hope that chapter
> can get its act together in the future.
>
> Russavia
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Fæ
On 5 December 2014 at 10:50, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hoi,
> It is NOT the chapter that has to change its ways.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM

Actually, under Sue Gardner, the offer was that if the chapter did
change its ways, it would become a payment processor again. As a
trustee at that time, who was sent all the correspondence, this was
exactly what was put in writing.

Presumably the WMF still have serious concerns about WMUK, otherwise
this would have happened in 2014. Perhaps a current trustee could
confirm the situation openly and transparently?

Fae
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Mathias Damour
----- Mail original -----

De: "Fæ" <[hidden email]>

> Actually, under Sue Gardner, the offer was that if the chapter did
> change its ways, it would become a payment processor again. As a
> trustee at that time, who was sent all the correspondence, this was
> exactly what was put in writing.

And did you believe her ?

Mathias
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Fæ
On 5 December 2014 at 14:12,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ----- Mail original -----
>
> De: "Fæ" <[hidden email]>
>
>> Actually, under Sue Gardner, the offer was that if the chapter did
>> change its ways, it would become a payment processor again. As a
>> trustee at that time, who was sent all the correspondence, this was
>> exactly what was put in writing.
>
> And did you believe her ?
>
> Mathias

No, I and another trustee made that exceedingly clear.

Though I was a trustee, I was excluded by the then Chairman from the
vote on how we proceeded. It was a truly nasty way to conduct the
matter. A procedurally and legally recorded vote of the board was
never held, something that I strongly complained about at the time.
This was never corrected nor was there ever a personal apology. I
would hope that the current board behaves differently with trustees
who might oppose the "party line", though as that same trustee is
still on the board, I guess meaningful governance reform has yet to
happen. Every indication shows that politics and PR are still
considered more important than public transparency and honesty to the
community.

I have raised this before, but I think it's too "non-positive" a
"non-success" to get anywhere with the way the charity that I helped
to create works today. My reward for being concerned about the
organization, is that I am no longer allowed to be a voting member of
the UK charity.

Fae
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Michael Maggs
I regret that Fae has thought it necessary to bring his personal
grievance against the UK chapter and one specific individual over to the
Wikimedia-l mailing list now that he is unable to make such comments on
the Wikimedia-UK list or the WMUK website.   I would hope that the
moderators will consider whether providing a platform for this type of
attack is conducive to the health of the Wikimedia movement.

Best regards

Michael

____________
Michael Maggs
Chair, Wikimedia UK

> Fæ <mailto:[hidden email]>
> 5 December 2014 14:30
>
> No, I and another trustee made that exceedingly clear.
>
> Though I was a trustee, I was excluded by the then Chairman from the
> vote on how we proceeded. It was a truly nasty way to conduct the
> matter. A procedurally and legally recorded vote of the board was
> never held, something that I strongly complained about at the time.
> This was never corrected nor was there ever a personal apology. I
> would hope that the current board behaves differently with trustees
> who might oppose the "party line", though as that same trustee is
> still on the board, I guess meaningful governance reform has yet to
> happen. Every indication shows that politics and PR are still
> considered more important than public transparency and honesty to the
> community.
>
> I have raised this before, but I think it's too "non-positive" a
> "non-success" to get anywhere with the way the charity that I helped
> to create works today. My reward for being concerned about the
> organization, is that I am no longer allowed to be a voting member of
> the UK charity.
>
> Fae
> Fæ <mailto:[hidden email]>
> 5 December 2014 10:56
>
> Actually, under Sue Gardner, the offer was that if the chapter did
> change its ways, it would become a payment processor again. As a
> trustee at that time, who was sent all the correspondence, this was
> exactly what was put in writing.
>
> Presumably the WMF still have serious concerns about WMUK, otherwise
> this would have happened in 2014. Perhaps a current trustee could
> confirm the situation openly and transparently?
>
> Fae
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Russavia
Michael,

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Michael Maggs <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I regret that Fae has thought it necessary to bring his personal grievance
> against the UK chapter and one specific individual over to the Wikimedia-l
> mailing list now that he is unable to make such comments on the
> Wikimedia-UK list or the WMUK website.   I would hope that the moderators
> will consider whether providing a platform for this type of attack is
> conducive to the health of the Wikimedia movement.
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael


I don't really see any sort of attack in what Fae has written; but is
posting his opinion and information gained from his own time as trustee of
Wikimedia UK. If you want to refute what he has to say, then do so. But
what you are essentially asking for is an echo chamber.

A question has been raised on this list as it relates to WMUK, so all and
sundry should be able to provide information relating to it.

Perhaps, you as Chairman of WMUK, could explain to us all publicly why the
WMF is willing to forego approx $500,000 in gift aid and has pulled WMUK's
ability to accept donations, and therefore still be eligible for that gift
aid. Fae was essentially blamed, at least in the public eye, for all the
failings of WMUK in the past, however the decision by the WMF is only a
recent one, so there are still obvious failings at WMUK, and it can't be
attributed to Fae. It is absolutely right that questions be asked; but your
solution is to ban those who are asking the questions. That is not on.

I'd appreciate some sort of response from you Michael that does include ad
hominem attacks. Refer to
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg
for where we should be (the top) and where we're at.

Regards,

Russavia
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Russavia
Sorry, that of course should have read:

"I'd appreciate some sort of response from you Michael that does NOT
include ad hominem attacks."

I guess I've been a Wikimedian so long that ad hominem attacks are often
the norm, rather than the exception. Or it could have just been a
brainfart. I'll let the reader decide.

Russavia

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Russavia <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Michael,
>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Michael Maggs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I regret that Fae has thought it necessary to bring his personal
>> grievance against the UK chapter and one specific individual over to the
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list now that he is unable to make such comments on the
>> Wikimedia-UK list or the WMUK website.   I would hope that the moderators
>> will consider whether providing a platform for this type of attack is
>> conducive to the health of the Wikimedia movement.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Michael
>
>
> I don't really see any sort of attack in what Fae has written; but is
> posting his opinion and information gained from his own time as trustee of
> Wikimedia UK. If you want to refute what he has to say, then do so. But
> what you are essentially asking for is an echo chamber.
>
> A question has been raised on this list as it relates to WMUK, so all and
> sundry should be able to provide information relating to it.
>
> Perhaps, you as Chairman of WMUK, could explain to us all publicly why the
> WMF is willing to forego approx $500,000 in gift aid and has pulled WMUK's
> ability to accept donations, and therefore still be eligible for that gift
> aid. Fae was essentially blamed, at least in the public eye, for all the
> failings of WMUK in the past, however the decision by the WMF is only a
> recent one, so there are still obvious failings at WMUK, and it can't be
> attributed to Fae. It is absolutely right that questions be asked; but your
> solution is to ban those who are asking the questions. That is not on.
>
> I'd appreciate some sort of response from you Michael that does include ad
> hominem attacks. Refer to
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg
> for where we should be (the top) and where we're at.
>
> Regards,
>
> Russavia
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Nick Birse
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett-2
I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become
embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the
chapter).

I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift Aid is
out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this be
dealt with at Wikimania 2014.

Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new
rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as to be
eligible to collect Gift Aid ?

If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money in the
UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid this
year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK (via
WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000 available
to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.

The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising in the
UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or
have a local office (see
http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/
). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does this
through the UK based "Greenpeace Environmental Trust" which is a registered
charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are then
passed to "Greenpeace International" in Amsterdam, and that funds things
like the "Rainbow Warrior".

I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of Gift
Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting
Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely
unforgivable.

Kind Regards,
Nick
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Michael Maggs
Hi Nick

Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser,
preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available
local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters,
including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser,
but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be
permitted.  WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here:
https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.

We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's
remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as
recommended by the Foundation and the FDC -  to seek charitable funds
directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.

Best regards

Michael

____________
Michael Maggs
Chair, Wikimedia UK

> Nick Birse <mailto:[hidden email]>
> 5 December 2014 17:28
> I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become
> embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the
> chapter).
>
> I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift
> Aid is
> out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this be
> dealt with at Wikimania 2014.
>
> Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new
> rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as
> to be
> eligible to collect Gift Aid ?
>
> If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money
> in the
> UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid this
> year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK (via
> WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000 available
> to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.
>
> The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising
> in the
> UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or
> have a local office (see
> http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/
> ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does this
> through the UK based "Greenpeace Environmental Trust" which is a
> registered
> charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are then
> passed to "Greenpeace International" in Amsterdam, and that funds things
> like the "Rainbow Warrior".
>
> I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of
> Gift
> Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting
> Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely
> unforgivable.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Nick
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Russavia
Michael

On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Michael Maggs <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
> allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, preferring
> to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax
> reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters, including the UK,
> would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous ED,
> Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted.  WMUK regretted
> that decision, and we responded to it here:
> https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.

The question was raised by Nick over at the WMF Board noticeboard.[1]
There Sj states:

"The [UK Fund for Charities channels gifts to validated non-UK based
charities. We were able to use their service this year for large
Wikimania-related donations. They charge 1% for large gifts, making
this an effective way to receive gift aid. However this is not a great
solution for individual donors: for gifts under £100, they charge up
to 20%, consuming most of the gift aid."

$500,000 is quite a lot of coin to be missing out on; and the WMF is
obviously looking at ways to get this gift aid (whilst bypassing
WMUK), just without registering themselves in the UK, which would see
it having to comply with European directives on numerous issues.

There's more to this story me thinks ;)

Russavia

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard#Fundraising

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Chris Keating-2
In reply to this post by Michael Maggs
Also, if anyone's interested in the latest news on Wikimedia UK's
governance, do have a look at our most recent governance audit - further
info here:

https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/11/final-report-on-wikimedia-uk-governance-released/

Some quotes include;

*“The charity has very largely addressed the 50 recommendations found
within the original review. WMUK has developed very quickly, and the
charity has clearly put a lot of effort into ensuring that its governance
now meets best practice expectations. It has a cohesive, skilled and
experienced board in place. They have a clear understanding of the
charity’s vision and mission”.*

*“For the stage that Wikimedia is in its life cycle it compares well with
similar UK charities. Its transparency about its procedures is a beacon of
best practice, and its conflicts of interest procedures are robust and
well-tested”.*

Regards,

Chris


On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Michael Maggs <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Nick
>
> Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
> allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser,
> preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available
> local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters, including
> the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the
> previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted.
> WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here:
> https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
>
> We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's
> remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as
> recommended by the Foundation and the FDC -  to seek charitable funds
> directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
>
> ____________
> Michael Maggs
> Chair, Wikimedia UK
>
>  Nick Birse <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> 5 December 2014 17:28
>>
>> I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become
>> embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the
>> chapter).
>>
>> I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift Aid
>> is
>> out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this be
>> dealt with at Wikimania 2014.
>>
>> Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new
>> rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as to
>> be
>> eligible to collect Gift Aid ?
>>
>> If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money in
>> the
>> UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid this
>> year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK (via
>> WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000 available
>> to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.
>>
>> The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising in
>> the
>> UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or
>> have a local office (see
>> http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/
>> about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/
>> ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does this
>> through the UK based "Greenpeace Environmental Trust" which is a
>> registered
>> charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are then
>> passed to "Greenpeace International" in Amsterdam, and that funds things
>> like the "Rainbow Warrior".
>>
>> I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of
>> Gift
>> Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting
>> Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely
>> unforgivable.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Nick
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Nathan Awrich
Wasn't there also an issue with WMUK processing payments, in that they
couldn't pass 100% of the donations on to the WMF but had to retain some or
most of the funds in order to remain independent under British law? That
seems like a good reason why the WMF might not want WMUK to process
payments, and the byzantine ruleset they'd have to abide by to have a
regime of chapter-based processing is a very good reason to avoid that
model in general.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Lisa Gruwell
In reply to this post by Chris Keating-2
You can find information on the tax deductibility of donations to WMF here:

https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Tax_Deductibility/en#.C2.A0Netherlands

Quickly, to address a few points that have been raised:

1) Yes, donations to WMF are tax deductible in the Netherlands

2)  When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for Charities,
which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF.  When
a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.

Thank you,
Lisa Gruwell

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Also, if anyone's interested in the latest news on Wikimedia UK's
> governance, do have a look at our most recent governance audit - further
> info here:
>
>
> https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/11/final-report-on-wikimedia-uk-governance-released/
>
> Some quotes include;
>
> *“The charity has very largely addressed the 50 recommendations found
> within the original review. WMUK has developed very quickly, and the
> charity has clearly put a lot of effort into ensuring that its governance
> now meets best practice expectations. It has a cohesive, skilled and
> experienced board in place. They have a clear understanding of the
> charity’s vision and mission”.*
>
> *“For the stage that Wikimedia is in its life cycle it compares well with
> similar UK charities. Its transparency about its procedures is a beacon of
> best practice, and its conflicts of interest procedures are robust and
> well-tested”.*
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Michael Maggs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Nick
> >
> > Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
> > allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser,
> > preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available
> > local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters, including
> > the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the
> > previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted.
> > WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here:
> > https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
> >
> > We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's
> > remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as
> > recommended by the Foundation and the FDC -  to seek charitable funds
> > directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > ____________
> > Michael Maggs
> > Chair, Wikimedia UK
> >
> >  Nick Birse <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >> 5 December 2014 17:28
> >>
> >> I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become
> >> embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the
> >> chapter).
> >>
> >> I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift Aid
> >> is
> >> out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this
> be
> >> dealt with at Wikimania 2014.
> >>
> >> Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new
> >> rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as to
> >> be
> >> eligible to collect Gift Aid ?
> >>
> >> If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money in
> >> the
> >> UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid
> this
> >> year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK
> (via
> >> WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000
> available
> >> to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.
> >>
> >> The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising in
> >> the
> >> UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or
> >> have a local office (see
> >> http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/
> >> about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/
> >> ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does
> this
> >> through the UK based "Greenpeace Environmental Trust" which is a
> >> registered
> >> charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are
> then
> >> passed to "Greenpeace International" in Amsterdam, and that funds things
> >> like the "Rainbow Warrior".
> >>
> >> I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of
> >> Gift
> >> Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting
> >> Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely
> >> unforgivable.
> >>
> >> Kind Regards,
> >> Nick
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Risker
In reply to this post by Russavia
On 5 December 2014 at 13:25, Russavia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Michael
>
> On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Michael Maggs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
> > allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser,
> preferring
> > to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax
> > reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters, including the UK,
> > would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous
> ED,
> > Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted.  WMUK regretted
> > that decision, and we responded to it here:
> > https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
>
> The question was raised by Nick over at the WMF Board noticeboard.[1]
> There Sj states:
>
> "The [UK Fund for Charities channels gifts to validated non-UK based
> charities. We were able to use their service this year for large
> Wikimania-related donations. They charge 1% for large gifts, making
> this an effective way to receive gift aid. However this is not a great
> solution for individual donors: for gifts under £100, they charge up
> to 20%, consuming most of the gift aid."
>
> $500,000 is quite a lot of coin to be missing out on; and the WMF is
> obviously looking at ways to get this gift aid (whilst bypassing
> WMUK), just without registering themselves in the UK, which would see
> it having to comply with European directives on numerous issues.
>
> There's more to this story me thinks ;)
>
> Russavia
>
>

Before getting all excited about losing $500,000....first we need to
consider some facts.

Fact #1 - in every country that I'm aware of (and I've been asking around a
bit recently), donors have the *option* of adding Gift Aid or whatever
local equivalent is available, but it is not an automatic option.
Therefore, there might be the *potential* to raise significant dollars
through this process, but it is not a guaranteed amount of money or a
guaranteed percentage.

Offsetting this is the cost of actually collecting the donations.  This
is a very significant factor, and for many chapters the cost of operating
the fundraiser locally with a remittance to the WMF is prohibitively
expensive.  They have to worry about hosting costs, staffing, banking,
lawyers, accountants, issuance of receipts, auditors, legislated
requirements as to how the donations are used....and that's just what I'm
aware of off the top of my head.

Unless there is excellent evidence that the additional donation outweighs
the cost of collecting it *for the movement as a whole, not just the
chapter* - and there was significant work done on this when the opportunity
for chapters to do this before was withdrawn - then it is not in the best
interests of the movement to operate this way.

We also have to keep in mind that there are many chapters that simply have
no opportunity to participate in this kind of fundraising (e.g., those in
countries with no similar government scheme) and there is absolutely no
opportunity for thematic organizations or user groups to participate in
this type of fundraising.

So yes, it is worth investigating, and Lisa Gruwell has already answered
some locally-specific issues. But there were a lot of reasons why this
option was heavily restricted in the past, and it wasn't just because
certain chapters were having governance issues.


Risker/Anne
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Chris Keating-2
In reply to this post by Nathan Awrich
Hi Nathan,

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Wasn't there also an issue with WMUK processing payments, in that they
> couldn't pass 100% of the donations on to the WMF but had to retain some or
> most of the funds in order to remain independent under British law?


We looked at this in some detail in 2011 when the original big discussion
about fundraising happened.

The short answer is "no"; Wikimedia UK would be able to send 99%+ of its
revenue to the Wikimedia Foundation as an unrestricted grant with no
regulatory problems.

The answer to this question does of course differ for different chapters.

Chris
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by Lisa Gruwell
Hoi,
For what it is worth ...
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_CJE-09-5_en.htm
Thanks,
      GerardM

On 5 December 2014 at 19:56, Lisa Gruwell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You can find information on the tax deductibility of donations to WMF here:
>
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Tax_Deductibility/en#.C2.A0Netherlands
>
> Quickly, to address a few points that have been raised:
>
> 1) Yes, donations to WMF are tax deductible in the Netherlands
>
> 2)  When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
> process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for Charities,
> which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF.  When
> a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.
>
> Thank you,
> Lisa Gruwell
>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Chris Keating <[hidden email]
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Also, if anyone's interested in the latest news on Wikimedia UK's
> > governance, do have a look at our most recent governance audit - further
> > info here:
> >
> >
> >
> https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/11/final-report-on-wikimedia-uk-governance-released/
> >
> > Some quotes include;
> >
> > *“The charity has very largely addressed the 50 recommendations found
> > within the original review. WMUK has developed very quickly, and the
> > charity has clearly put a lot of effort into ensuring that its governance
> > now meets best practice expectations. It has a cohesive, skilled and
> > experienced board in place. They have a clear understanding of the
> > charity’s vision and mission”.*
> >
> > *“For the stage that Wikimedia is in its life cycle it compares well with
> > similar UK charities. Its transparency about its procedures is a beacon
> of
> > best practice, and its conflicts of interest procedures are robust and
> > well-tested”.*
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Michael Maggs <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Nick
> > >
> > > Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
> > > allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser,
> > > preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available
> > > local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters,
> including
> > > the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the
> > > previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted.
> > > WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here:
> > > https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
> > >
> > > We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's
> > > remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as
> > > recommended by the Foundation and the FDC -  to seek charitable funds
> > > directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > ____________
> > > Michael Maggs
> > > Chair, Wikimedia UK
> > >
> > >  Nick Birse <mailto:[hidden email]>
> > >> 5 December 2014 17:28
> > >>
> > >> I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become
> > >> embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined
> the
> > >> chapter).
> > >>
> > >> I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift
> Aid
> > >> is
> > >> out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking
> this
> > be
> > >> dealt with at Wikimania 2014.
> > >>
> > >> Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new
> > >> rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as
> to
> > >> be
> > >> eligible to collect Gift Aid ?
> > >>
> > >> If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money
> in
> > >> the
> > >> UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid
> > this
> > >> year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK
> > (via
> > >> WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000
> > available
> > >> to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.
> > >>
> > >> The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising
> in
> > >> the
> > >> UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner,
> or
> > >> have a local office (see
> > >> http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/
> > >> about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/
> > >> ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does
> > this
> > >> through the UK based "Greenpeace Environmental Trust" which is a
> > >> registered
> > >> charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are
> > then
> > >> passed to "Greenpeace International" in Amsterdam, and that funds
> things
> > >> like the "Rainbow Warrior".
> > >>
> > >> I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of
> > >> Gift
> > >> Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not
> collecting
> > >> Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely
> > >> unforgivable.
> > >>
> > >> Kind Regards,
> > >> Nick
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > >> [hidden email]
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

Mathias Damour
In reply to this post by Michael Maggs
Le 05/12/2014 19:22, Michael Maggs a écrit :

> Hi Nick
>
> Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
> allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser,
> preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the
> available local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK). Many
> chapters, including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the
> fundraiser, but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that
> would not be permitted.  WMUK regretted that decision, and we
> responded to it here:
> https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.

I wonder if Sue Gardner has worked more on anything than centralizing
the Wikimedia movement by various means and curtailing chapter growth
and capacity.
I also wonder if she was mandated to do that by the board or if she just
implemented her own views.
 From this message of Ting Chen, it seems that it was her own will :-(

https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2014-June/072405.html
"As some of you may remember that the years 2010 to 2012 [when he was
chair of the Wikimedia Foundation] were especially difficult years in
relationship between the Foundation and the chapters. The Foundation
experimented a few approaches and changed again and again its direction.
And the discussion about how to distribute the funds raised on our
projects had repeatedly kindled, sometimes very violent confrontations.
On one of the board meetings earlier of 2011 Sue said to the board that
she never considered this confrontation as a question of who wins. She
wanted a good and sound solution for the problems that are out there.
After the Haifa Wikimania the discussion became even hotter and
sometimes it really felt insulting. I always considered myself as a
person who is very ballanced and who can keep his tempel, but at that
point I must say that I was very unnerved by the dispute. We had our
board meeting in San Francisco and after that Sue asked me to stay for a
few days to give a speech on the All Hands Meeting of the staff. So one
evening we went out for a dinner together and naturally, the discussion
came back to the fund raising and fund dissemination topic. And I asked
Sue with a sigh:"Do you still think that it is not about who wins?" And
she said:"Yes, of cause not." "

Ting Chen seems to have believed her :-(

--
Mathias Damour
F-74000 Annecy

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