[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time

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[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time

Asaf Bartov-2
This is not India-specific, and may be of interest to other communities
struggling with such a question.

   A.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ravishankar <[hidden email]>
Date: Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 3:05 PM
Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time
To: wikimediaindia-l <[hidden email]>


Hi,

Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time after a gap of almost 5 years.

After 2013, we hit a policy deadlock where we couldn't agree on how to
elect a new sysop, what are the qualities of an ideal sysop, etc.,

Even after repeated attempts, we could not solve this as the fear of being
not able to easily desysop someone made us look for higher and higher bars
for a perfect admin.

So, how did we solve?

Recently, MediaWiki allows someone to get sysop access for limited periods
of time like 1 month, 3 months, etc., This is how Stewards grants adminship
in many small wikis.

We felt when there is the possibility of granting adminships for trial
periods and renew them thereafter, we don't need to keep the bar for
adminship very high.

We also proposed to start a Wiki Admin School where others can mentor the
new admins.

So, after a month long discussion and community consensus, we conducted our
sysop elections and elected 10 sysops at a time.

Right now, we have 42 sysops  with one of the highest sysops per users
ration among all global Wikis.

We plan to elect 6 new sysops every quarter and are discussing a similar
policy for bureaucrat election.

We strongly believe having a diverse pool of sysops makes them feel
empowered to serve the Wikimedia movement for a long period of time.

If you are interested in knowing more, take a look at the policy here
<https://ta.wikipedia.org/s/7gmi> and the discussion in the related talk
page.

Thanks,

Ravi
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    Asaf Bartov
    Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time

Johan Jönsson
Yes, we – Swedish Wikipedia – have had similar experiences with annual
reelections (since 2006) helping us both to keep the bar at a reasonable
level and to have a de-sysoping process that doesn't cause of strife and
rifts in the community. Works well for us.

//Johan Jönsson
--

Den fre 26 apr. 2019 kl 00:41 skrev Asaf Bartov <[hidden email]>:

> This is not India-specific, and may be of interest to other communities
> struggling with such a question.
>
>    A.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Ravishankar <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 3:05 PM
> Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time
> To: wikimediaindia-l <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time after a gap of almost 5 years.
>
> After 2013, we hit a policy deadlock where we couldn't agree on how to
> elect a new sysop, what are the qualities of an ideal sysop, etc.,
>
> Even after repeated attempts, we could not solve this as the fear of being
> not able to easily desysop someone made us look for higher and higher bars
> for a perfect admin.
>
> So, how did we solve?
>
> Recently, MediaWiki allows someone to get sysop access for limited periods
> of time like 1 month, 3 months, etc., This is how Stewards grants adminship
> in many small wikis.
>
> We felt when there is the possibility of granting adminships for trial
> periods and renew them thereafter, we don't need to keep the bar for
> adminship very high.
>
> We also proposed to start a Wiki Admin School where others can mentor the
> new admins.
>
> So, after a month long discussion and community consensus, we conducted our
> sysop elections and elected 10 sysops at a time.
>
> Right now, we have 42 sysops  with one of the highest sysops per users
> ration among all global Wikis.
>
> We plan to elect 6 new sysops every quarter and are discussing a similar
> policy for bureaucrat election.
>
> We strongly believe having a diverse pool of sysops makes them feel
> empowered to serve the Wikimedia movement for a long period of time.
>
> If you are interested in knowing more, take a look at the policy here
> <https://ta.wikipedia.org/s/7gmi> and the discussion in the related talk
> page.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ravi
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
>
> --
>     Asaf Bartov
>     Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time

Vi to
In reply to this post by Asaf Bartov-2
Meh, sysops are a mean, not a goal. Bureaucrats even less.

On a wiki with just 302 active users according to mediawiki's loose
definition of activity this rings me the "bureaucracy explosion" bell.

Even with very low activity requirements I wonder how many administrative
tasks can be performed upon a 450 edits/day overall activity.

Vito

Il giorno ven 26 apr 2019 alle ore 00:41 Asaf Bartov <[hidden email]>
ha scritto:

> This is not India-specific, and may be of interest to other communities
> struggling with such a question.
>
>    A.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Ravishankar <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 3:05 PM
> Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time
> To: wikimediaindia-l <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time after a gap of almost 5 years.
>
> After 2013, we hit a policy deadlock where we couldn't agree on how to
> elect a new sysop, what are the qualities of an ideal sysop, etc.,
>
> Even after repeated attempts, we could not solve this as the fear of being
> not able to easily desysop someone made us look for higher and higher bars
> for a perfect admin.
>
> So, how did we solve?
>
> Recently, MediaWiki allows someone to get sysop access for limited periods
> of time like 1 month, 3 months, etc., This is how Stewards grants adminship
> in many small wikis.
>
> We felt when there is the possibility of granting adminships for trial
> periods and renew them thereafter, we don't need to keep the bar for
> adminship very high.
>
> We also proposed to start a Wiki Admin School where others can mentor the
> new admins.
>
> So, after a month long discussion and community consensus, we conducted our
> sysop elections and elected 10 sysops at a time.
>
> Right now, we have 42 sysops  with one of the highest sysops per users
> ration among all global Wikis.
>
> We plan to elect 6 new sysops every quarter and are discussing a similar
> policy for bureaucrat election.
>
> We strongly believe having a diverse pool of sysops makes them feel
> empowered to serve the Wikimedia movement for a long period of time.
>
> If you are interested in knowing more, take a look at the policy here
> <https://ta.wikipedia.org/s/7gmi> and the discussion in the related talk
> page.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ravi
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
>
> --
>     Asaf Bartov
>     Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time

Peter Southwood
In reply to this post by Johan Jönsson
You appear to have 66 sysops on sv:? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Wikipedia), how well to you think this system would scale up for an order or two of magnitude more?
Cheers,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Johan Jönsson
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 12:54 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time

Yes, we – Swedish Wikipedia – have had similar experiences with annual
reelections (since 2006) helping us both to keep the bar at a reasonable
level and to have a de-sysoping process that doesn't cause of strife and
rifts in the community. Works well for us.

//Johan Jönsson
--

Den fre 26 apr. 2019 kl 00:41 skrev Asaf Bartov <[hidden email]>:

> This is not India-specific, and may be of interest to other communities
> struggling with such a question.
>
>    A.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Ravishankar <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 3:05 PM
> Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time
> To: wikimediaindia-l <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time after a gap of almost 5 years.
>
> After 2013, we hit a policy deadlock where we couldn't agree on how to
> elect a new sysop, what are the qualities of an ideal sysop, etc.,
>
> Even after repeated attempts, we could not solve this as the fear of being
> not able to easily desysop someone made us look for higher and higher bars
> for a perfect admin.
>
> So, how did we solve?
>
> Recently, MediaWiki allows someone to get sysop access for limited periods
> of time like 1 month, 3 months, etc., This is how Stewards grants adminship
> in many small wikis.
>
> We felt when there is the possibility of granting adminships for trial
> periods and renew them thereafter, we don't need to keep the bar for
> adminship very high.
>
> We also proposed to start a Wiki Admin School where others can mentor the
> new admins.
>
> So, after a month long discussion and community consensus, we conducted our
> sysop elections and elected 10 sysops at a time.
>
> Right now, we have 42 sysops  with one of the highest sysops per users
> ration among all global Wikis.
>
> We plan to elect 6 new sysops every quarter and are discussing a similar
> policy for bureaucrat election.
>
> We strongly believe having a diverse pool of sysops makes them feel
> empowered to serve the Wikimedia movement for a long period of time.
>
> If you are interested in knowing more, take a look at the policy here
> <https://ta.wikipedia.org/s/7gmi> and the discussion in the related talk
> page.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ravi
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
>
> --
>     Asaf Bartov
>     Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wikipedia elects 10 sysops at a time

Johan Jönsson
Den fre 26 apr. 2019 kl 15:36 skrev Peter Southwood <
[hidden email]>:

> You appear to have 66 sysops on sv:? (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Wikipedia), how well to you think
> this system would scale up for an order or two of magnitude more?


I think it would scale well for almost all our wikis, but that there is a
handful where I'd assume the size would become an issue. Partly because of
the number of reelections, partly because I think part of our success is
that if I'm a fairly active editor that cares about our candidates for
adminship on Swedish Wikipedia, I've probably encountered most of the
active admins up for reelection a couple of times over the last year and
have already had the chance to see them use the tools. Generally, most
admins are unanimously or almost unanimously reelected; we tend to support
unless we have reason not to.

That's not to say it couldn't work for the larger wikis with some adaptions
(I simply don't have an opinion either way), but I'm not confidently going
to tell English Wikipedia this is the solution to the RfA problem.

//Johan Jönsson
--
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