[Wikimedia-l] GLAM Mailing lists

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[Wikimedia-l] GLAM Mailing lists

Bohdan Melnychuk
Hi guys.

Just how many GLAM lists do we have?

Not counting regional ones, I know of GLAM, Cultural-Partners,
Libraries, got to know about existence of some the "paris group" (not
sure if it's even a mailing list technically, but in case it's not then
it's weird even more). Perhaps there are some (or is it many?) others.

Should they not be all listed in one place, e.g. on
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Mailing_lists with clear data
about who manages them, what are their scope, rules and how you might
joint them?

Just having many is already confusing but when you can't even get a list
of all of them it's confusing even more.

I'm sorry if some of the lists I listed were intended as cabalish and
not to be disclosed to others. I don't think cabalish lists are a good
way to collaborate for wikimedians.

Yours sincerely,
Base

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] GLAM Mailing lists

Philippe Beaudette-3
The canonical home for the list of lists is
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo.  While it is possible to have
a list hidden from there, it would be pretty unusual for a GLAM list, I
think.

pb


*Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
Foundation, Inc.
T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  [hidden email]  |  :  @Philippewiki
<https://twitter.com/Philippewiki>

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Bohdan Melnychuk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi guys.
>
> Just how many GLAM lists do we have?
>
> Not counting regional ones, I know of GLAM, Cultural-Partners, Libraries,
> got to know about existence of some the "paris group" (not sure if it's
> even a mailing list technically, but in case it's not then it's weird even
> more). Perhaps there are some (or is it many?) others.
>
> Should they not be all listed in one place, e.g. on
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Mailing_lists with clear data
> about who manages them, what are their scope, rules and how you might joint
> them?
>
> Just having many is already confusing but when you can't even get a list
> of all of them it's confusing even more.
>
> I'm sorry if some of the lists I listed were intended as cabalish and not
> to be disclosed to others. I don't think cabalish lists are a good way to
> collaborate for wikimedians.
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Base
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] GLAM Mailing lists

Bohdan Melnychuk
Your comment does not cover the fact that not all lists are hosted by
lists.wikimedia.org.

E.g. cultural partnership is here:

https://intern.wikimedia.ch/lists/listinfo/cultural-partners

Some other chapters also host lists and there're googlegroups to consider. That's a one thing why a mere server listing of lists does not suffice. Another is that an automatical list listing isn't where you can write rules, membership procedure/criteria and other stuff needed for transparency. Well not just transparency issue but also of need to concentrate data in one place is to be considered.
--Base


On 09.06.2015 3:40, Philippe Beaudette wrote:

> The canonical home for the list of lists is
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo.  While it is possible to have
> a list hidden from there, it would be pretty unusual for a GLAM list, I
> think.
>
> pb
>
>
> *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
> Foundation, Inc.
> T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  [hidden email]  |  :  @Philippewiki
> <https://twitter.com/Philippewiki>
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Bohdan Melnychuk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi guys.
>>
>> Just how many GLAM lists do we have?
>>
>> Not counting regional ones, I know of GLAM, Cultural-Partners, Libraries,
>> got to know about existence of some the "paris group" (not sure if it's
>> even a mailing list technically, but in case it's not then it's weird even
>> more). Perhaps there are some (or is it many?) others.
>>
>> Should they not be all listed in one place, e.g. on
>> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Mailing_lists with clear data
>> about who manages them, what are their scope, rules and how you might joint
>> them?
>>
>> Just having many is already confusing but when you can't even get a list
>> of all of them it's confusing even more.
>>
>> I'm sorry if some of the lists I listed were intended as cabalish and not
>> to be disclosed to others. I don't think cabalish lists are a good way to
>> collaborate for wikimedians.
>>
>> Yours sincerely,
>> Base
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [GLAM] GLAM Mailing lists

Liam Wyatt
I'm guessing that he's referring to the attendees of a GLAM meeting that
was held in Paris a few months ago and is comprehensively documented on
Meta:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2015_European_GLAMwiki_Coordinators_meeting
Yesterday, I asked the ~15 attendees of that meeting a followup question
about my own work, and called them the "paris group" in that email as a
shorthand. As far as I know, that's the only time the phrase has been used
in a GLAM-specific context.

-Liam

wittylama.com
Peace, love & metadata

On 9 June 2015 at 12:15, Benoît Evellin (Trizek) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello Base
>
> Guessing from your first email, the "Paris group" you mention may be this
> mailing list hosted by Wikimédia France
> <http://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/paris>, which allows people living in
> Paris discuss about their local IRL actions (like visiting museums).
>
> This list is not a generic mailing-list, like lists hosted by WMF.
>
> Best,
> Benoît
>
> On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 2:54 AM, Bohdan Melnychuk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Your comment does not cover the fact that not all lists are hosted by
>> lists.wikimedia.org.
>>
>> E.g. cultural partnership is here:
>>
>> https://intern.wikimedia.ch/lists/listinfo/cultural-partners
>>
>> Some other chapters also host lists and there're googlegroups to
>> consider. That's a one thing why a mere server listing of lists does not
>> suffice. Another is that an automatical list listing isn't where you can
>> write rules, membership procedure/criteria and other stuff needed for
>> transparency. Well not just transparency issue but also of need to
>> concentrate data in one place is to be considered.
>> --Base
>>
>>
>> On 09.06.2015 3:40, Philippe Beaudette wrote:
>>
>>> The canonical home for the list of lists is
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo.  While it is possible to
>>> have
>>> a list hidden from there, it would be pretty unusual for a GLAM list, I
>>> think.
>>>
>>> pb
>>>
>>>
>>> *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
>>> Foundation, Inc.
>>> T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  [hidden email]  |  :  @Philippewiki
>>> <https://twitter.com/Philippewiki>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Bohdan Melnychuk <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi guys.
>>>>
>>>> Just how many GLAM lists do we have?
>>>>
>>>> Not counting regional ones, I know of GLAM, Cultural-Partners,
>>>> Libraries,
>>>> got to know about existence of some the "paris group" (not sure if it's
>>>> even a mailing list technically, but in case it's not then it's weird
>>>> even
>>>> more). Perhaps there are some (or is it many?) others.
>>>>
>>>> Should they not be all listed in one place, e.g. on
>>>> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Mailing_lists with clear data
>>>> about who manages them, what are their scope, rules and how you might
>>>> joint
>>>> them?
>>>>
>>>> Just having many is already confusing but when you can't even get a list
>>>> of all of them it's confusing even more.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry if some of the lists I listed were intended as cabalish and
>>>> not
>>>> to be disclosed to others. I don't think cabalish lists are a good way
>>>> to
>>>> collaborate for wikimedians.
>>>>
>>>> Yours sincerely,
>>>> Base
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GLAM mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Benoît Evellin (Trizek)
> Community Liaison, Product
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> _______________________________________________
> GLAM mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [GLAM] GLAM Mailing lists

Jane Darnell
In reply to this post by Bohdan Melnychuk
Yes, this mailing list is still alive, and the membership is open to
Wikipedians who understand how to jump the hoops of the meta page. The meta
page is not only the place where you can sign up for the list, but also the
place where you should discuss this list if you object to it in any way. I
am one of several list admins who adds people to the list based on the
sign-up page and emails that come in.
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Mailing_lists

The biggest reason for it being closed is to ensure that we can speak
honestly about projects with have had with external partners - because GLAM
is inherently about building professional and long-term relationships
externally

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Ilario Valdelli <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
> the mailing list of cultural partners "hosted by" Wikimedia CH is not a
> Wikimedia CH mailing list.
>
> I remember that a lot of year ago, during the Wikimedia conferences, the
> chapters asked to have some mailing lists to discussed themes like GLAMs.
>
> I, as member of the staff of Wikimedia CH, don't have access.
>
> The best is to ask to the administrators of the mailing list if it is
> still alive.
>
> Regards
>
> On 09/Giu/2015 02.54.04, Bohdan Melnychuk wrote:
>
> Your comment does not cover the fact that not all lists are hosted by
> lists.wikimedia.org.
>
> E.g. cultural partnership is here:
>
> https://intern.wikimedia.ch/lists/listinfo/cultural-partners
>
> Some other chapters also host lists and there're googlegroups to consider.
> That's a one thing why a mere server listing of lists does not suffice.
> Another is that an automatical list listing isn't where you can write
> rules, membership procedure/criteria and other stuff needed for
> transparency. Well not just transparency issue but also of need to
> concentrate data in one place is to be considered.
> --Base
>
>
> On 09.06.2015 3:40, Philippe Beaudette wrote:
>
> The canonical home for the list of lists is
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo. While it is possible to have
> a list hidden from there, it would be pretty unusual for a GLAM list, I
> think.
>
> pb
>
>
> *Philippe Beaudette * \\ Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
> Foundation, Inc.
> T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 | [hidden email] <#14dd7fbfeb3fdcd1_> | :
> @Philippewiki
> <https://twitter.com/Philippewiki>
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Bohdan Melnychuk <[hidden email]
> <#14dd7fbfeb3fdcd1_>te:
>
> Hi guys.
>
> Just how many GLAM lists do we have?
>
> Not counting regional ones, I know of GLAM, Cultural-Partners, Libraries,
> got to know about existence of some the "paris group" (not sure if it's
> even a mailing list technically, but in case it's not then it's weird even
> more). Perhaps there are some (or is it many?) others.
>
> Should they not be all listed in one place, e.g. on
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Mailing_lists with clear data
> about who manages them, what are their scope, rules and how you might joint
> them?
>
> Just having many is already confusing but when you can't even get a list
> of all of them it's confusing even more.
>
> I'm sorry if some of the lists I listed were intended as cabalish and not
> to be disclosed to others. I don't think cabalish lists are a good way to
> collaborate for wikimedians.
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Base
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email] <#14dd7fbfeb3fdcd1_>
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email] <#14dd7fbfeb3fdcd1_>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email] <#14dd7fbfeb3fdcd1_>
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email] <#14dd7fbfeb3fdcd1_>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GLAM mailing list
> [hidden email] <#14dd7fbfeb3fdcd1_>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GLAM mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [GLAM] GLAM Mailing lists

Bohdan Melnychuk
In reply to this post by Liam Wyatt
Yes, that's the one I'm about. It's good that all these things are
documented at least somewhere but it would be good to have them in one
place. I don't think it's a very nice thing when we have almost half a
dozen of GLAM lists all documented in different places. It's not very
important who actually hosts them.

I suggest that all GLAM lists are to be listed on
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Mailing_lists with some details
on them.
--Base

On 09.06.2015 13:40, Liam Wyatt wrote:

> I'm guessing that he's referring to the attendees of a GLAM meeting
> that was held in Paris a few months ago and is comprehensively
> documented on Meta:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2015_European_GLAMwiki_Coordinators_meeting 
>
> Yesterday, I asked the ~15 attendees of that meeting a followup
> question about my own work, and called them the "paris group" in that
> email as a shorthand. As far as I know, that's the only time the
> phrase has been used in a GLAM-specific context.
>
> -Liam
>
> wittylama.com <http://wittylama.com>
> Peace, love & metadata
>
> On 9 June 2015 at 12:15, Benoît Evellin (Trizek)
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hello Base
>
>     Guessing from your first email, the "Paris group" you mention may
>     be this mailing list hosted by Wikimédia France
>     <http://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/paris>, which allows people living
>     in Paris discuss about their local IRL actions (like visiting
>     museums).
>
>     This list is not a generic mailing-list, like lists hosted by WMF.
>
>     Best,
>     Benoît
>
>     On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 2:54 AM, Bohdan Melnychuk <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>         Your comment does not cover the fact that not all lists are
>         hosted by lists.wikimedia.org <http://lists.wikimedia.org>.
>
>         E.g. cultural partnership is here:
>
>         https://intern.wikimedia.ch/lists/listinfo/cultural-partners
>
>         Some other chapters also host lists and there're googlegroups
>         to consider. That's a one thing why a mere server listing of
>         lists does not suffice. Another is that an automatical list
>         listing isn't where you can write rules, membership
>         procedure/criteria and other stuff needed for transparency.
>         Well not just transparency issue but also of need to
>         concentrate data in one place is to be considered.
>         --Base
>
>
>         On 09.06.2015 3:40, Philippe Beaudette wrote:
>
>             The canonical home for the list of lists is
>             https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo. While it is
>             possible to have
>             a list hidden from there, it would be pretty unusual for a
>             GLAM list, I
>             think.
>
>             pb
>
>
>             *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\
>             Wikimedia
>             Foundation, Inc.
>             T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 <tel:1-415-839-6885%20x6643> |
>             [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> |
>             :  @Philippewiki
>             <https://twitter.com/Philippewiki>
>
>
>             On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Bohdan Melnychuk
>             <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>                 Hi guys.
>
>                 Just how many GLAM lists do we have?
>
>                 Not counting regional ones, I know of GLAM,
>                 Cultural-Partners, Libraries,
>                 got to know about existence of some the "paris group"
>                 (not sure if it's
>                 even a mailing list technically, but in case it's not
>                 then it's weird even
>                 more). Perhaps there are some (or is it many?) others.
>
>                 Should they not be all listed in one place, e.g. on
>                 https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Mailing_lists
>                 with clear data
>                 about who manages them, what are their scope, rules
>                 and how you might joint
>                 them?
>
>                 Just having many is already confusing but when you
>                 can't even get a list
>                 of all of them it's confusing even more.
>
>                 I'm sorry if some of the lists I listed were intended
>                 as cabalish and not
>                 to be disclosed to others. I don't think cabalish
>                 lists are a good way to
>                 collaborate for wikimedians.
>
>                 Yours sincerely,
>                 Base
>
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>                 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>                 [hidden email]
>                 <mailto:[hidden email]>
>                 Unsubscribe:
>                 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>                 <mailto:[hidden email]
>                 <mailto:[hidden email]>?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>             https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>             [hidden email]
>             <mailto:[hidden email]>
>             Unsubscribe:
>             https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>             <mailto:[hidden email]
>             <mailto:[hidden email]>?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         GLAM mailing list
>         [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>         https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
>
>
>
>
>     --
>     Benoît Evellin (Trizek)
>     Community Liaison, Product
>     Wikimedia Foundation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     GLAM mailing list
>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GLAM mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] GLAM Mailing lists

Andy Mabbett-2
In reply to this post by Bohdan Melnychuk
On 8 June 2015 at 23:35, Bohdan Melnychuk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm sorry if some of the lists I listed were intended as cabalish and not to
> be disclosed to others. I don't think cabalish lists are a good way to
> collaborate for wikimedians.

"Cabalish" is rather a pejorative term. We have a closed GLAM list so
that we can have frank discussions without embarrassing our partner
organisations. if ether was no such list, then those discussions would
move to private emails, not become public.


--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [GLAM] GLAM Mailing lists

Bohdan Melnychuk
By cabalish I mean not closed lists with clear membership process as
cultural partners is but the like of the paris group where you've got to
be a part of a cabal in order to even know about it (or have cabal
member mention it somewhere in front of you).

--Base

On 10.06.2015 13:46, Andy Mabbett wrote:

> On 8 June 2015 at 23:35, Bohdan Melnychuk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry if some of the lists I listed were intended as cabalish and not to
>> be disclosed to others. I don't think cabalish lists are a good way to
>> collaborate for wikimedians.
> "Cabalish" is rather a pejorative term. We have a closed GLAM list so
> that we can have frank discussions without embarrassing our partner
> organisations. if ether was no such list, then those discussions would
> move to private emails, not become public.
>
>


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