[Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

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[Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Jimmy Wales-4
Here is a note that I just sent to the staff mailing list (stuck in a
queue at the moment, so some staff will see it here first.).

Hi everyone!

I am coming to San Francisco on Saturday for a few days to meet with a
lot of you.  I know many of you are not actually in San Francisco, so
I'll be sure to set aside time for remote meetings as well.

By now you of course have heard that Lila is leaving us, and my hope is
that we're going to enter a new era of stability and productivity.  And
for that to happen, the board - including me - needs to hear from you,
to listen and learn.

Brion Vibber, who I hired as the first ever employee of the Foundation,
said this to me on Facebook recently: "Jimmy Wales welcome back to the
conversation. I look forward to how you address the current crisis, and
hope it will involve the kind of careful listening and thoughtful
consideration that I remember from 2001."

That's what I want, too.  I want to listen and I want to help the board
make good decisions.

For me, the mission - a free encyclopedia for every single person on the
planet, in their own language - is what brought us all together.  It's
what keeps us going even in difficult times.  But my view is that it
doesn't have to be difficult times.  Working at the WMF should be - and
will be, I really think - a joy: the joy of working with the best
colleagues, the joy of doing work that matters to the world, and the joy
of working for the fantastic global community of Wikipedians.

I'll be reaching out to some of you - probably starting with people I
already know - but please reach out to me as well if you'd like to meet.

I'm in SF from Saturday afternoon through Wednesday evening, so
depending on demand, I may not be able to see everyone, but I'd like to
get a good overview.

--Jimbo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Ruslan Takayev
Jimmy, et al

As yet, we have yet to have coherent believable reasoning for the removal
of James Heilman from the BoT, but one of the reasons that has been put out
there (rightly or wrongly) is that James was talking to staff about the
state of affairs at the WMF.

Is this trip not the exact same thing that James was alleged to have done
all those months ago? i.e. talking to staff.

Why are trustees, including yourself, only now willing to listen to staff
concerns? The time for that was BEFORE the proverbial poo hit the fan.

I am seeing the announcement of your trip as nothing more than a "knight in
shining armor" routine, that frankly is too little too late.

Warm regards,

Ruslan Takayev


On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 4:06 AM, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Here is a note that I just sent to the staff mailing list (stuck in a
> queue at the moment, so some staff will see it here first.).
>
> Hi everyone!
>
> I am coming to San Francisco on Saturday for a few days to meet with a
> lot of you.  I know many of you are not actually in San Francisco, so
> I'll be sure to set aside time for remote meetings as well.
>
> By now you of course have heard that Lila is leaving us, and my hope is
> that we're going to enter a new era of stability and productivity.  And
> for that to happen, the board - including me - needs to hear from you,
> to listen and learn.
>
> Brion Vibber, who I hired as the first ever employee of the Foundation,
> said this to me on Facebook recently: "Jimmy Wales welcome back to the
> conversation. I look forward to how you address the current crisis, and
> hope it will involve the kind of careful listening and thoughtful
> consideration that I remember from 2001."
>
> That's what I want, too.  I want to listen and I want to help the board
> make good decisions.
>
> For me, the mission - a free encyclopedia for every single person on the
> planet, in their own language - is what brought us all together.  It's
> what keeps us going even in difficult times.  But my view is that it
> doesn't have to be difficult times.  Working at the WMF should be - and
> will be, I really think - a joy: the joy of working with the best
> colleagues, the joy of doing work that matters to the world, and the joy
> of working for the fantastic global community of Wikipedians.
>
> I'll be reaching out to some of you - probably starting with people I
> already know - but please reach out to me as well if you'd like to meet.
>
> I'm in SF from Saturday afternoon through Wednesday evening, so
> depending on demand, I may not be able to see everyone, but I'd like to
> get a good overview.
>
> --Jimbo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

GorillaWarfare
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales-4
I would be curious to hear precisely what you hope to accomplish from your
trip to San Francisco. How do you plan to communicate what you learn to the
rest of the Board of Trustees, and to those who will be instrumental in
shaping the changes that will happen to the WMF in the near future? How do
you plan to speak to staff members, who have seen many of their coworkers
leave or be forced out in the last few years? How do you plan to increase
morale among an incredibly demoralized group?

I too hope that your return will be marked by "careful listening and
thoughtful consideration" that Brion Vibber describes, not to mention
strong actions resulting from what you learn during your trip. But quite
frankly, Vibber's communications with the Wikimedia community outside of
the Foundation have far surpassed yours in clarity and transparency. I hope
that you will improve upon your messaging, but I would like clear
reassurance that you realize this is necessary.

There have been many things that have not impressed me recently: how the
Wikimedia Foundation chose to handle the lack of transparency surrounding
WMF actions (even once they were leaked), how the Board has handled the
past unrest surrounding the Executive Director and senior leadership,
communication surrounding James Heilman's removal... the list really goes
on and on.

I would love to know whether you supported Lila Tretikov's departure. It is
clear that she did not up and resign on her own, and I would like to know
if you were one of the folks who thought her departure would be beneficial,
or if you preferred she "weather the storm," so to speak.

I would also like to hear a clear statement about what you think can be
gained from your return to San Francisco.

Thank you,
Molly White
User:GorillaWarfare
English Wikipedia community member
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Pierre-Selim
In reply to this post by Ruslan Takayev
Ruslan it's different. Way different I would say, being
head of staff is the role of the ED (when not steping down).

A board member messing with that is doing something bad
for the organization. If a board member is not happy with
the result of the ED, his option is simple, talk about it with
the board and act within the board.

Now, When an ED is stepping down, the board has to step up
during the transition.

Finding the limit of your mandate as board member is not easy
this is why lots of organizations write Board codex, board guidance
book, etc.

2016-02-26 11:16 GMT+01:00 Ruslan Takayev <[hidden email]>:

> Jimmy, et al
>
> As yet, we have yet to have coherent believable reasoning for the removal
> of James Heilman from the BoT, but one of the reasons that has been put out
> there (rightly or wrongly) is that James was talking to staff about the
> state of affairs at the WMF.
>
> Is this trip not the exact same thing that James was alleged to have done
> all those months ago? i.e. talking to staff.
>
> Why are trustees, including yourself, only now willing to listen to staff
> concerns? The time for that was BEFORE the proverbial poo hit the fan.
>
> I am seeing the announcement of your trip as nothing more than a "knight in
> shining armor" routine, that frankly is too little too late.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ruslan Takayev
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 4:06 AM, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Here is a note that I just sent to the staff mailing list (stuck in a
> > queue at the moment, so some staff will see it here first.).
> >
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > I am coming to San Francisco on Saturday for a few days to meet with a
> > lot of you.  I know many of you are not actually in San Francisco, so
> > I'll be sure to set aside time for remote meetings as well.
> >
> > By now you of course have heard that Lila is leaving us, and my hope is
> > that we're going to enter a new era of stability and productivity.  And
> > for that to happen, the board - including me - needs to hear from you,
> > to listen and learn.
> >
> > Brion Vibber, who I hired as the first ever employee of the Foundation,
> > said this to me on Facebook recently: "Jimmy Wales welcome back to the
> > conversation. I look forward to how you address the current crisis, and
> > hope it will involve the kind of careful listening and thoughtful
> > consideration that I remember from 2001."
> >
> > That's what I want, too.  I want to listen and I want to help the board
> > make good decisions.
> >
> > For me, the mission - a free encyclopedia for every single person on the
> > planet, in their own language - is what brought us all together.  It's
> > what keeps us going even in difficult times.  But my view is that it
> > doesn't have to be difficult times.  Working at the WMF should be - and
> > will be, I really think - a joy: the joy of working with the best
> > colleagues, the joy of doing work that matters to the world, and the joy
> > of working for the fantastic global community of Wikipedians.
> >
> > I'll be reaching out to some of you - probably starting with people I
> > already know - but please reach out to me as well if you'd like to meet.
> >
> > I'm in SF from Saturday afternoon through Wednesday evening, so
> > depending on demand, I may not be able to see everyone, but I'd like to
> > get a good overview.
> >
> > --Jimbo
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>




--
Pierre-Selim
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Fæ
In reply to this post by GorillaWarfare
Enjoy your trip Jimmy. It's been about 20 years since I last travelled
there. Let me know if you want me to join you for a strategic chat.

Please consider declaring your conflicts of interest and conflicts of
loyalty more publicly, or changing your role away from being a voting
WMF trustee, say by becoming a respected WMF board advisor.

You have made many defensive remarks in public this year in advance of
Lila's resignation about the previously secret Knowledge Engine /
Search Engine project, yet you have not explained how ethically you
could at the same time be part of the WMF board decision to support
funding the project when Wikia would be a direct beneficiary of its
development, along with yourself benefiting financially.

As this is a matter of board governance, I am copying the board
members in on this email. Hopefully at least one of your fellow
trustees will want to ask some questions and publish some answers,
eventually.

Thanks,
Fae


On 26 February 2016 at 10:39, GorillaWarfare
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would be curious to hear precisely what you hope to accomplish from your
> trip to San Francisco. How do you plan to communicate what you learn to the
> rest of the Board of Trustees, and to those who will be instrumental in
> shaping the changes that will happen to the WMF in the near future? How do
> you plan to speak to staff members, who have seen many of their coworkers
> leave or be forced out in the last few years? How do you plan to increase
> morale among an incredibly demoralized group?
>
> I too hope that your return will be marked by "careful listening and
> thoughtful consideration" that Brion Vibber describes, not to mention
> strong actions resulting from what you learn during your trip. But quite
> frankly, Vibber's communications with the Wikimedia community outside of
> the Foundation have far surpassed yours in clarity and transparency. I hope
> that you will improve upon your messaging, but I would like clear
> reassurance that you realize this is necessary.
>
> There have been many things that have not impressed me recently: how the
> Wikimedia Foundation chose to handle the lack of transparency surrounding
> WMF actions (even once they were leaked), how the Board has handled the
> past unrest surrounding the Executive Director and senior leadership,
> communication surrounding James Heilman's removal... the list really goes
> on and on.
>
> I would love to know whether you supported Lila Tretikov's departure. It is
> clear that she did not up and resign on her own, and I would like to know
> if you were one of the folks who thought her departure would be beneficial,
> or if you preferred she "weather the storm," so to speak.
>
> I would also like to hear a clear statement about what you think can be
> gained from your return to San Francisco.
>
> Thank you,
> Molly White
> User:GorillaWarfare
> English Wikipedia community member
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Brion Vibber-4
In reply to this post by Ruslan Takayev
Poo has indeed hit fans, as the metaphor goes. But that's hardly the time
to STOP talking.

I'll be coming down to the SF office as well next week to talk
directly with Jimmy and with any staff (and board members!) who want to
plan or brainstorm or vent or just share a moment of "aggghhh!" and I'm
very much hoping for the best.

I think there's no expectation of magic resolutions, and Jimmy knows well
that there's been mistrust and there remain serious open issues. But this
is a rare inflection point, an opportunity to come together and seriously
explore how we got to this point and what we can all do to avoid a "next
time".

Whatever the outcomes I'm glad to see Jimmy reach out and look forward to
some "real talk" and a better understanding of how we all can make positive
changes together.

-- brion

On Friday, February 26, 2016, Ruslan Takayev <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Jimmy, et al
>
> As yet, we have yet to have coherent believable reasoning for the removal
> of James Heilman from the BoT, but one of the reasons that has been put out
> there (rightly or wrongly) is that James was talking to staff about the
> state of affairs at the WMF.
>
> Is this trip not the exact same thing that James was alleged to have done
> all those months ago? i.e. talking to staff.
>
> Why are trustees, including yourself, only now willing to listen to staff
> concerns? The time for that was BEFORE the proverbial poo hit the fan.
>
> I am seeing the announcement of your trip as nothing more than a "knight in
> shining armor" routine, that frankly is too little too late.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ruslan Takayev
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 4:06 AM, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > Here is a note that I just sent to the staff mailing list (stuck in a
> > queue at the moment, so some staff will see it here first.).
> >
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > I am coming to San Francisco on Saturday for a few days to meet with a
> > lot of you.  I know many of you are not actually in San Francisco, so
> > I'll be sure to set aside time for remote meetings as well.
> >
> > By now you of course have heard that Lila is leaving us, and my hope is
> > that we're going to enter a new era of stability and productivity.  And
> > for that to happen, the board - including me - needs to hear from you,
> > to listen and learn.
> >
> > Brion Vibber, who I hired as the first ever employee of the Foundation,
> > said this to me on Facebook recently: "Jimmy Wales welcome back to the
> > conversation. I look forward to how you address the current crisis, and
> > hope it will involve the kind of careful listening and thoughtful
> > consideration that I remember from 2001."
> >
> > That's what I want, too.  I want to listen and I want to help the board
> > make good decisions.
> >
> > For me, the mission - a free encyclopedia for every single person on the
> > planet, in their own language - is what brought us all together.  It's
> > what keeps us going even in difficult times.  But my view is that it
> > doesn't have to be difficult times.  Working at the WMF should be - and
> > will be, I really think - a joy: the joy of working with the best
> > colleagues, the joy of doing work that matters to the world, and the joy
> > of working for the fantastic global community of Wikipedians.
> >
> > I'll be reaching out to some of you - probably starting with people I
> > already know - but please reach out to me as well if you'd like to meet.
> >
> > I'm in SF from Saturday afternoon through Wednesday evening, so
> > depending on demand, I may not be able to see everyone, but I'd like to
> > get a good overview.
> >
> > --Jimbo
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Oliver Keyes-5
In reply to this post by GorillaWarfare
On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 5:39 AM, GorillaWarfare
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would be curious to hear precisely what you hope to accomplish from your
> trip to San Francisco. How do you plan to communicate what you learn to the
> rest of the Board of Trustees, and to those who will be instrumental in
> shaping the changes that will happen to the WMF in the near future? How do
> you plan to speak to staff members, who have seen many of their coworkers
> leave or be forced out in the last few years? How do you plan to increase
> morale among an incredibly demoralized group?
>
> I too hope that your return will be marked by "careful listening and
> thoughtful consideration" that Brion Vibber describes, not to mention
> strong actions resulting from what you learn during your trip. But quite
> frankly, Vibber's communications with the Wikimedia community outside of
> the Foundation have far surpassed yours in clarity and transparency. I hope
> that you will improve upon your messaging, but I would like clear
> reassurance that you realize this is necessary.
>
> There have been many things that have not impressed me recently: how the
> Wikimedia Foundation chose to handle the lack of transparency surrounding
> WMF actions (even once they were leaked), how the Board has handled the
> past unrest surrounding the Executive Director and senior leadership,
> communication surrounding James Heilman's removal... the list really goes
> on and on.
>
> I would love to know whether you supported Lila Tretikov's departure. It is
> clear that she did not up and resign on her own, and I would like to know
> if you were one of the folks who thought her departure would be beneficial,
> or if you preferred she "weather the storm," so to speak.
>

I would very much like to know the answer to this question, in
particular. Any conversation with staff should be based first and
foremost on honesty, after everything that has happened.

> I would also like to hear a clear statement about what you think can be
> gained from your return to San Francisco.
>
> Thank you,
> Molly White
> User:GorillaWarfare
> English Wikipedia community member
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Andreas Kolbe-2
In reply to this post by Brion Vibber-4
Brion,

I understand you and Jimmy Wales go way, way back. But what is the point of
"coming together" with someone who, just hours before the Knowledge Engine
grant agreement was released, insisted,

---o0o---

'To make this very clear: no one in top positions has proposed or is
proposing that WMF should get into the general "searching" or to try to "be
google". It's an interesting hypothetical which has not been part of any
serious strategy proposal, nor even discussed at the board level, nor
proposed to the board by staff, nor a part of any grant, etc. It's a total
lie.'

---o0o---

When the grant agreement was released -- flatly contradicting his very
words, in the view of everyone who read it, including every single
journalist who wrote about it -- Jimmy Wales disappeared for four days from
the wiki. He eventually resurface and later made an appearance at the
Knowledge Engine FAQ on Meta explaining that he had only just learnt that
there really was a search engine project.[1]

How plausible is that? By all accounts, James and Dariusz fought to be
shown the documents that were later leaked, against the resistance of other
board members, which presumably included Jimmy Wales (I don't think it
takes too much intelligence to figure out that Guy Kawasaki and Jimmy Wales
were among Lila's main supporters and defenders on the board).

So are we to believe that Jimmy Wales had never seen the grant agreements,
had never seen those documents that all these arguments in the board were
about, had never even bothered to look at them?

In November 2015, board discussions referred to the Knowledge Engine
project as a "moon shot", according to James. So all this time Jimmy Wales
was ignorant of what this "moon shot" was, until some staff member informed
him on February 19 that there really were plans for a search engine?

"Nor even discussed at board level" my foot!

Even if you bend over backwards to assume Jimmy Wales is telling the truth,
and he really didn't know anything about this (he might have been struck by
temporary deafness during these "moon shot" discussions, after all, or
suffered a bout of amnesia), what does it say about him that he blithely
went round denouncing people who were telling the truth as liars spreading
"bullshit", rather than asking questions and informing himself before
shooting his mouth off?

What's the point of talking when you can't believe a word a person is
saying?

Andreas

P.S. Now, what is this about Wikia? This is news to me. How would Wikia
have profited from the Knowledge Engine? Did anyone plan to include Wikia
among the wikis the search engine would prominently surface?

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Knowledge_Engine/FAQ&diff=15365968&oldid=15365951

Andreas

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Poo has indeed hit fans, as the metaphor goes. But that's hardly the time
> to STOP talking.
>
> I'll be coming down to the SF office as well next week to talk
> directly with Jimmy and with any staff (and board members!) who want to
> plan or brainstorm or vent or just share a moment of "aggghhh!" and I'm
> very much hoping for the best.
>
> I think there's no expectation of magic resolutions, and Jimmy knows well
> that there's been mistrust and there remain serious open issues. But this
> is a rare inflection point, an opportunity to come together and seriously
> explore how we got to this point and what we can all do to avoid a "next
> time".
>
> Whatever the outcomes I'm glad to see Jimmy reach out and look forward to
> some "real talk" and a better understanding of how we all can make positive
> changes together.
>
> -- brion
>
> On Friday, February 26, 2016, Ruslan Takayev <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Jimmy, et al
> >
> > As yet, we have yet to have coherent believable reasoning for the removal
> > of James Heilman from the BoT, but one of the reasons that has been put
> out
> > there (rightly or wrongly) is that James was talking to staff about the
> > state of affairs at the WMF.
> >
> > Is this trip not the exact same thing that James was alleged to have done
> > all those months ago? i.e. talking to staff.
> >
> > Why are trustees, including yourself, only now willing to listen to staff
> > concerns? The time for that was BEFORE the proverbial poo hit the fan.
> >
> > I am seeing the announcement of your trip as nothing more than a "knight
> in
> > shining armor" routine, that frankly is too little too late.
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Ruslan Takayev
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 4:06 AM, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > Here is a note that I just sent to the staff mailing list (stuck in a
> > > queue at the moment, so some staff will see it here first.).
> > >
> > > Hi everyone!
> > >
> > > I am coming to San Francisco on Saturday for a few days to meet with a
> > > lot of you.  I know many of you are not actually in San Francisco, so
> > > I'll be sure to set aside time for remote meetings as well.
> > >
> > > By now you of course have heard that Lila is leaving us, and my hope is
> > > that we're going to enter a new era of stability and productivity.  And
> > > for that to happen, the board - including me - needs to hear from you,
> > > to listen and learn.
> > >
> > > Brion Vibber, who I hired as the first ever employee of the Foundation,
> > > said this to me on Facebook recently: "Jimmy Wales welcome back to the
> > > conversation. I look forward to how you address the current crisis, and
> > > hope it will involve the kind of careful listening and thoughtful
> > > consideration that I remember from 2001."
> > >
> > > That's what I want, too.  I want to listen and I want to help the board
> > > make good decisions.
> > >
> > > For me, the mission - a free encyclopedia for every single person on
> the
> > > planet, in their own language - is what brought us all together.  It's
> > > what keeps us going even in difficult times.  But my view is that it
> > > doesn't have to be difficult times.  Working at the WMF should be - and
> > > will be, I really think - a joy: the joy of working with the best
> > > colleagues, the joy of doing work that matters to the world, and the
> joy
> > > of working for the fantastic global community of Wikipedians.
> > >
> > > I'll be reaching out to some of you - probably starting with people I
> > > already know - but please reach out to me as well if you'd like to
> meet.
> > >
> > > I'm in SF from Saturday afternoon through Wednesday evening, so
> > > depending on demand, I may not be able to see everyone, but I'd like to
> > > get a good overview.
> > >
> > > --Jimbo
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Brion Vibber-4
On Friday, February 26, 2016, Andreas Kolbe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Brion,
>
> I understand you and Jimmy Wales go way, way back. But what is the point of
> "coming together" with someone who, just hours before the Knowledge Engine
> grant agreement was released, insisted,


Diplomacy requires talking to your enemies as well as your friends. (And in
the real world, we are rarely all one or the other.)

-- brion






>
> ---o0o---
>
> 'To make this very clear: no one in top positions has proposed or is
> proposing that WMF should get into the general "searching" or to try to "be
> google". It's an interesting hypothetical which has not been part of any
> serious strategy proposal, nor even discussed at the board level, nor
> proposed to the board by staff, nor a part of any grant, etc. It's a total
> lie.'
>
> ---o0o---
>
> When the grant agreement was released -- flatly contradicting his very
> words, in the view of everyone who read it, including every single
> journalist who wrote about it -- Jimmy Wales disappeared for four days from
> the wiki. He eventually resurface and later made an appearance at the
> Knowledge Engine FAQ on Meta explaining that he had only just learnt that
> there really was a search engine project.[1]
>
> How plausible is that? By all accounts, James and Dariusz fought to be
> shown the documents that were later leaked, against the resistance of other
> board members, which presumably included Jimmy Wales (I don't think it
> takes too much intelligence to figure out that Guy Kawasaki and Jimmy Wales
> were among Lila's main supporters and defenders on the board).
>
> So are we to believe that Jimmy Wales had never seen the grant agreements,
> had never seen those documents that all these arguments in the board were
> about, had never even bothered to look at them?
>
> In November 2015, board discussions referred to the Knowledge Engine
> project as a "moon shot", according to James. So all this time Jimmy Wales
> was ignorant of what this "moon shot" was, until some staff member informed
> him on February 19 that there really were plans for a search engine?
>
> "Nor even discussed at board level" my foot!
>
> Even if you bend over backwards to assume Jimmy Wales is telling the truth,
> and he really didn't know anything about this (he might have been struck by
> temporary deafness during these "moon shot" discussions, after all, or
> suffered a bout of amnesia), what does it say about him that he blithely
> went round denouncing people who were telling the truth as liars spreading
> "bullshit", rather than asking questions and informing himself before
> shooting his mouth off?
>
> What's the point of talking when you can't believe a word a person is
> saying?
>
> Andreas
>
> P.S. Now, what is this about Wikia? This is news to me. How would Wikia
> have profited from the Knowledge Engine? Did anyone plan to include Wikia
> among the wikis the search engine would prominently surface?
>
> [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Knowledge_Engine/FAQ&diff=15365968&oldid=15365951
>
> Andreas
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> > Poo has indeed hit fans, as the metaphor goes. But that's hardly the time
> > to STOP talking.
> >
> > I'll be coming down to the SF office as well next week to talk
> > directly with Jimmy and with any staff (and board members!) who want to
> > plan or brainstorm or vent or just share a moment of "aggghhh!" and I'm
> > very much hoping for the best.
> >
> > I think there's no expectation of magic resolutions, and Jimmy knows well
> > that there's been mistrust and there remain serious open issues. But this
> > is a rare inflection point, an opportunity to come together and seriously
> > explore how we got to this point and what we can all do to avoid a "next
> > time".
> >
> > Whatever the outcomes I'm glad to see Jimmy reach out and look forward to
> > some "real talk" and a better understanding of how we all can make
> positive
> > changes together.
> >
> > -- brion
> >
> > On Friday, February 26, 2016, Ruslan Takayev <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Jimmy, et al
> > >
> > > As yet, we have yet to have coherent believable reasoning for the
> removal
> > > of James Heilman from the BoT, but one of the reasons that has been put
> > out
> > > there (rightly or wrongly) is that James was talking to staff about the
> > > state of affairs at the WMF.
> > >
> > > Is this trip not the exact same thing that James was alleged to have
> done
> > > all those months ago? i.e. talking to staff.
> > >
> > > Why are trustees, including yourself, only now willing to listen to
> staff
> > > concerns? The time for that was BEFORE the proverbial poo hit the fan.
> > >
> > > I am seeing the announcement of your trip as nothing more than a
> "knight
> > in
> > > shining armor" routine, that frankly is too little too late.
> > >
> > > Warm regards,
> > >
> > > Ruslan Takayev
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 4:06 AM, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>
> > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Here is a note that I just sent to the staff mailing list (stuck in a
> > > > queue at the moment, so some staff will see it here first.).
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone!
> > > >
> > > > I am coming to San Francisco on Saturday for a few days to meet with
> a
> > > > lot of you.  I know many of you are not actually in San Francisco, so
> > > > I'll be sure to set aside time for remote meetings as well.
> > > >
> > > > By now you of course have heard that Lila is leaving us, and my hope
> is
> > > > that we're going to enter a new era of stability and productivity.
> And
> > > > for that to happen, the board - including me - needs to hear from
> you,
> > > > to listen and learn.
> > > >
> > > > Brion Vibber, who I hired as the first ever employee of the
> Foundation,
> > > > said this to me on Facebook recently: "Jimmy Wales welcome back to
> the
> > > > conversation. I look forward to how you address the current crisis,
> and
> > > > hope it will involve the kind of careful listening and thoughtful
> > > > consideration that I remember from 2001."
> > > >
> > > > That's what I want, too.  I want to listen and I want to help the
> board
> > > > make good decisions.
> > > >
> > > > For me, the mission - a free encyclopedia for every single person on
> > the
> > > > planet, in their own language - is what brought us all together.
> It's
> > > > what keeps us going even in difficult times.  But my view is that it
> > > > doesn't have to be difficult times.  Working at the WMF should be -
> and
> > > > will be, I really think - a joy: the joy of working with the best
> > > > colleagues, the joy of doing work that matters to the world, and the
> > joy
> > > > of working for the fantastic global community of Wikipedians.
> > > >
> > > > I'll be reaching out to some of you - probably starting with people I
> > > > already know - but please reach out to me as well if you'd like to
> > meet.
> > > >
> > > > I'm in SF from Saturday afternoon through Wednesday evening, so
> > > > depending on demand, I may not be able to see everyone, but I'd like
> to
> > > > get a good overview.
> > > >
> > > > --Jimbo
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> <javascript:;>
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> <javascript:;>
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> <javascript:;>
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> <javascript:;>
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Risker
In reply to this post by Andreas Kolbe-2
Andreas, I think you are being unfair here.  Whatever anyone's personal
opinion of Jimmy, the bottom line is that WMF staff have expressed that the
Board has not been listening to them.  Jimmy is a board member.  He's
directly saying "I'm coming to listen to you".  And he's being transparent
about it,  by sharing his plan publicly on this list and perhaps
elsewhere.  That pretty much sounds as though he's being responsive.  Now,
none of us knows what the outcome will be, and I don't think it would be
appropriate for any of us to speculate on how various staff members will
choose to interact given this direct opportunity.  Other board members live
in the immediate area and maybe they too will attend (and maybe not, we
don't know).  This is a very short notice attendance, and since many board
members have responsibilities to their employers, families, and other
activities, they may not be able to drop everything and jump on a plane,
even if they want to.

Myself, I'd suggest that staff take advantage of this opportunity, with the
hope of having a more responsive interaction than the November meeting.  It
is in *everyone's* interest that all of the groups within the Wikimedia
community start moving toward better integration, communication,
transparency, and  carving out a shared vision.  This is a step. It's only
a step.

As to this hypothetical Wikia connection, it's a speculation by Fae (and
only  Fae, as far as I can see), who has not provided any evidence that his
statement is based on some known information.  It may come as a surprise to
a lot of people, but Wikia's software has been increasingly diverging from
the MediaWiki we all use on Wikimedia projects, and they already have
better inter-wiki search than WMF projects have.

Risker/Anne

On 26 February 2016 at 10:02, Andreas Kolbe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Brion,
>
> I understand you and Jimmy Wales go way, way back. But what is the point of
> "coming together" with someone who, just hours before the Knowledge Engine
> grant agreement was released, insisted,
>
> ---o0o---
>
> 'To make this very clear: no one in top positions has proposed or is
> proposing that WMF should get into the general "searching" or to try to "be
> google". It's an interesting hypothetical which has not been part of any
> serious strategy proposal, nor even discussed at the board level, nor
> proposed to the board by staff, nor a part of any grant, etc. It's a total
> lie.'
>
> ---o0o---
>
> When the grant agreement was released -- flatly contradicting his very
> words, in the view of everyone who read it, including every single
> journalist who wrote about it -- Jimmy Wales disappeared for four days from
> the wiki. He eventually resurface and later made an appearance at the
> Knowledge Engine FAQ on Meta explaining that he had only just learnt that
> there really was a search engine project.[1]
>
> How plausible is that? By all accounts, James and Dariusz fought to be
> shown the documents that were later leaked, against the resistance of other
> board members, which presumably included Jimmy Wales (I don't think it
> takes too much intelligence to figure out that Guy Kawasaki and Jimmy Wales
> were among Lila's main supporters and defenders on the board).
>
> So are we to believe that Jimmy Wales had never seen the grant agreements,
> had never seen those documents that all these arguments in the board were
> about, had never even bothered to look at them?
>
> In November 2015, board discussions referred to the Knowledge Engine
> project as a "moon shot", according to James. So all this time Jimmy Wales
> was ignorant of what this "moon shot" was, until some staff member informed
> him on February 19 that there really were plans for a search engine?
>
> "Nor even discussed at board level" my foot!
>
> Even if you bend over backwards to assume Jimmy Wales is telling the truth,
> and he really didn't know anything about this (he might have been struck by
> temporary deafness during these "moon shot" discussions, after all, or
> suffered a bout of amnesia), what does it say about him that he blithely
> went round denouncing people who were telling the truth as liars spreading
> "bullshit", rather than asking questions and informing himself before
> shooting his mouth off?
>
> What's the point of talking when you can't believe a word a person is
> saying?
>
> Andreas
>
> P.S. Now, what is this about Wikia? This is news to me. How would Wikia
> have profited from the Knowledge Engine? Did anyone plan to include Wikia
> among the wikis the search engine would prominently surface?
>
> [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Knowledge_Engine/FAQ&diff=15365968&oldid=15365951
>
> Andreas
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Poo has indeed hit fans, as the metaphor goes. But that's hardly the time
> > to STOP talking.
> >
> > I'll be coming down to the SF office as well next week to talk
> > directly with Jimmy and with any staff (and board members!) who want to
> > plan or brainstorm or vent or just share a moment of "aggghhh!" and I'm
> > very much hoping for the best.
> >
> > I think there's no expectation of magic resolutions, and Jimmy knows well
> > that there's been mistrust and there remain serious open issues. But this
> > is a rare inflection point, an opportunity to come together and seriously
> > explore how we got to this point and what we can all do to avoid a "next
> > time".
> >
> > Whatever the outcomes I'm glad to see Jimmy reach out and look forward to
> > some "real talk" and a better understanding of how we all can make
> positive
> > changes together.
> >
> > -- brion
> >
> > On Friday, February 26, 2016, Ruslan Takayev <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Jimmy, et al
> > >
> > > As yet, we have yet to have coherent believable reasoning for the
> removal
> > > of James Heilman from the BoT, but one of the reasons that has been put
> > out
> > > there (rightly or wrongly) is that James was talking to staff about the
> > > state of affairs at the WMF.
> > >
> > > Is this trip not the exact same thing that James was alleged to have
> done
> > > all those months ago? i.e. talking to staff.
> > >
> > > Why are trustees, including yourself, only now willing to listen to
> staff
> > > concerns? The time for that was BEFORE the proverbial poo hit the fan.
> > >
> > > I am seeing the announcement of your trip as nothing more than a
> "knight
> > in
> > > shining armor" routine, that frankly is too little too late.
> > >
> > > Warm regards,
> > >
> > > Ruslan Takayev
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 4:06 AM, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]
> > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Here is a note that I just sent to the staff mailing list (stuck in a
> > > > queue at the moment, so some staff will see it here first.).
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone!
> > > >
> > > > I am coming to San Francisco on Saturday for a few days to meet with
> a
> > > > lot of you.  I know many of you are not actually in San Francisco, so
> > > > I'll be sure to set aside time for remote meetings as well.
> > > >
> > > > By now you of course have heard that Lila is leaving us, and my hope
> is
> > > > that we're going to enter a new era of stability and productivity.
> And
> > > > for that to happen, the board - including me - needs to hear from
> you,
> > > > to listen and learn.
> > > >
> > > > Brion Vibber, who I hired as the first ever employee of the
> Foundation,
> > > > said this to me on Facebook recently: "Jimmy Wales welcome back to
> the
> > > > conversation. I look forward to how you address the current crisis,
> and
> > > > hope it will involve the kind of careful listening and thoughtful
> > > > consideration that I remember from 2001."
> > > >
> > > > That's what I want, too.  I want to listen and I want to help the
> board
> > > > make good decisions.
> > > >
> > > > For me, the mission - a free encyclopedia for every single person on
> > the
> > > > planet, in their own language - is what brought us all together.
> It's
> > > > what keeps us going even in difficult times.  But my view is that it
> > > > doesn't have to be difficult times.  Working at the WMF should be -
> and
> > > > will be, I really think - a joy: the joy of working with the best
> > > > colleagues, the joy of doing work that matters to the world, and the
> > joy
> > > > of working for the fantastic global community of Wikipedians.
> > > >
> > > > I'll be reaching out to some of you - probably starting with people I
> > > > already know - but please reach out to me as well if you'd like to
> > meet.
> > > >
> > > > I'm in SF from Saturday afternoon through Wednesday evening, so
> > > > depending on demand, I may not be able to see everyone, but I'd like
> to
> > > > get a good overview.
> > > >
> > > > --Jimbo
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Lodewijk
#Iamwithrisker

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Risker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Andreas, I think you are being unfair here.  Whatever anyone's personal
> opinion of Jimmy, the bottom line is that WMF staff have expressed that the
> Board has not been listening to them.  Jimmy is a board member.  He's
> directly saying "I'm coming to listen to you".  And he's being transparent
> about it,  by sharing his plan publicly on this list and perhaps
> elsewhere.  That pretty much sounds as though he's being responsive.  Now,
> none of us knows what the outcome will be, and I don't think it would be
> appropriate for any of us to speculate on how various staff members will
> choose to interact given this direct opportunity.  Other board members live
> in the immediate area and maybe they too will attend (and maybe not, we
> don't know).  This is a very short notice attendance, and since many board
> members have responsibilities to their employers, families, and other
> activities, they may not be able to drop everything and jump on a plane,
> even if they want to.
>
> Myself, I'd suggest that staff take advantage of this opportunity, with the
> hope of having a more responsive interaction than the November meeting.  It
> is in *everyone's* interest that all of the groups within the Wikimedia
> community start moving toward better integration, communication,
> transparency, and  carving out a shared vision.  This is a step. It's only
> a step.
>
> As to this hypothetical Wikia connection, it's a speculation by Fae (and
> only  Fae, as far as I can see), who has not provided any evidence that his
> statement is based on some known information.  It may come as a surprise to
> a lot of people, but Wikia's software has been increasingly diverging from
> the MediaWiki we all use on Wikimedia projects, and they already have
> better inter-wiki search than WMF projects have.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 26 February 2016 at 10:02, Andreas Kolbe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Brion,
> >
> > I understand you and Jimmy Wales go way, way back. But what is the point
> of
> > "coming together" with someone who, just hours before the Knowledge
> Engine
> > grant agreement was released, insisted,
> >
> > ---o0o---
> >
> > 'To make this very clear: no one in top positions has proposed or is
> > proposing that WMF should get into the general "searching" or to try to
> "be
> > google". It's an interesting hypothetical which has not been part of any
> > serious strategy proposal, nor even discussed at the board level, nor
> > proposed to the board by staff, nor a part of any grant, etc. It's a
> total
> > lie.'
> >
> > ---o0o---
> >
> > When the grant agreement was released -- flatly contradicting his very
> > words, in the view of everyone who read it, including every single
> > journalist who wrote about it -- Jimmy Wales disappeared for four days
> from
> > the wiki. He eventually resurface and later made an appearance at the
> > Knowledge Engine FAQ on Meta explaining that he had only just learnt that
> > there really was a search engine project.[1]
> >
> > How plausible is that? By all accounts, James and Dariusz fought to be
> > shown the documents that were later leaked, against the resistance of
> other
> > board members, which presumably included Jimmy Wales (I don't think it
> > takes too much intelligence to figure out that Guy Kawasaki and Jimmy
> Wales
> > were among Lila's main supporters and defenders on the board).
> >
> > So are we to believe that Jimmy Wales had never seen the grant
> agreements,
> > had never seen those documents that all these arguments in the board were
> > about, had never even bothered to look at them?
> >
> > In November 2015, board discussions referred to the Knowledge Engine
> > project as a "moon shot", according to James. So all this time Jimmy
> Wales
> > was ignorant of what this "moon shot" was, until some staff member
> informed
> > him on February 19 that there really were plans for a search engine?
> >
> > "Nor even discussed at board level" my foot!
> >
> > Even if you bend over backwards to assume Jimmy Wales is telling the
> truth,
> > and he really didn't know anything about this (he might have been struck
> by
> > temporary deafness during these "moon shot" discussions, after all, or
> > suffered a bout of amnesia), what does it say about him that he blithely
> > went round denouncing people who were telling the truth as liars
> spreading
> > "bullshit", rather than asking questions and informing himself before
> > shooting his mouth off?
> >
> > What's the point of talking when you can't believe a word a person is
> > saying?
> >
> > Andreas
> >
> > P.S. Now, what is this about Wikia? This is news to me. How would Wikia
> > have profited from the Knowledge Engine? Did anyone plan to include Wikia
> > among the wikis the search engine would prominently surface?
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Knowledge_Engine/FAQ&diff=15365968&oldid=15365951
> >
> > Andreas
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Poo has indeed hit fans, as the metaphor goes. But that's hardly the
> time
> > > to STOP talking.
> > >
> > > I'll be coming down to the SF office as well next week to talk
> > > directly with Jimmy and with any staff (and board members!) who want to
> > > plan or brainstorm or vent or just share a moment of "aggghhh!" and I'm
> > > very much hoping for the best.
> > >
> > > I think there's no expectation of magic resolutions, and Jimmy knows
> well
> > > that there's been mistrust and there remain serious open issues. But
> this
> > > is a rare inflection point, an opportunity to come together and
> seriously
> > > explore how we got to this point and what we can all do to avoid a
> "next
> > > time".
> > >
> > > Whatever the outcomes I'm glad to see Jimmy reach out and look forward
> to
> > > some "real talk" and a better understanding of how we all can make
> > positive
> > > changes together.
> > >
> > > -- brion
> > >
> > > On Friday, February 26, 2016, Ruslan Takayev <[hidden email]
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jimmy, et al
> > > >
> > > > As yet, we have yet to have coherent believable reasoning for the
> > removal
> > > > of James Heilman from the BoT, but one of the reasons that has been
> put
> > > out
> > > > there (rightly or wrongly) is that James was talking to staff about
> the
> > > > state of affairs at the WMF.
> > > >
> > > > Is this trip not the exact same thing that James was alleged to have
> > done
> > > > all those months ago? i.e. talking to staff.
> > > >
> > > > Why are trustees, including yourself, only now willing to listen to
> > staff
> > > > concerns? The time for that was BEFORE the proverbial poo hit the
> fan.
> > > >
> > > > I am seeing the announcement of your trip as nothing more than a
> > "knight
> > > in
> > > > shining armor" routine, that frankly is too little too late.
> > > >
> > > > Warm regards,
> > > >
> > > > Ruslan Takayev
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 4:06 AM, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]
> > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Here is a note that I just sent to the staff mailing list (stuck
> in a
> > > > > queue at the moment, so some staff will see it here first.).
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi everyone!
> > > > >
> > > > > I am coming to San Francisco on Saturday for a few days to meet
> with
> > a
> > > > > lot of you.  I know many of you are not actually in San Francisco,
> so
> > > > > I'll be sure to set aside time for remote meetings as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > By now you of course have heard that Lila is leaving us, and my
> hope
> > is
> > > > > that we're going to enter a new era of stability and productivity.
> > And
> > > > > for that to happen, the board - including me - needs to hear from
> > you,
> > > > > to listen and learn.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brion Vibber, who I hired as the first ever employee of the
> > Foundation,
> > > > > said this to me on Facebook recently: "Jimmy Wales welcome back to
> > the
> > > > > conversation. I look forward to how you address the current crisis,
> > and
> > > > > hope it will involve the kind of careful listening and thoughtful
> > > > > consideration that I remember from 2001."
> > > > >
> > > > > That's what I want, too.  I want to listen and I want to help the
> > board
> > > > > make good decisions.
> > > > >
> > > > > For me, the mission - a free encyclopedia for every single person
> on
> > > the
> > > > > planet, in their own language - is what brought us all together.
> > It's
> > > > > what keeps us going even in difficult times.  But my view is that
> it
> > > > > doesn't have to be difficult times.  Working at the WMF should be -
> > and
> > > > > will be, I really think - a joy: the joy of working with the best
> > > > > colleagues, the joy of doing work that matters to the world, and
> the
> > > joy
> > > > > of working for the fantastic global community of Wikipedians.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll be reaching out to some of you - probably starting with
> people I
> > > > > already know - but please reach out to me as well if you'd like to
> > > meet.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm in SF from Saturday afternoon through Wednesday evening, so
> > > > > depending on demand, I may not be able to see everyone, but I'd
> like
> > to
> > > > > get a good overview.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Jimbo
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Andreas Kolbe-2
In reply to this post by Brion Vibber-4
On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Diplomacy requires talking to your enemies as well as your friends. (And in
> the real world, we are rarely all one or the other.)
>
> -- brion



Yes, that I can see, and well said.

Andreas
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Yaroslav M. Blanter
In reply to this post by Risker
On 2016-02-26 16:23, Risker wrote:

> Andreas, I think you are being unfair here.  Whatever anyone's personal
> opinion of Jimmy, the bottom line is that WMF staff have expressed that
> the
> Board has not been listening to them.  Jimmy is a board member.  He's
> directly saying "I'm coming to listen to you".  And he's being
> transparent
> about it,  by sharing his plan publicly on this list and perhaps
> elsewhere.  That pretty much sounds as though he's being responsive.  
> Now,
> none of us knows what the outcome will be, and I don't think it would
> be
> appropriate for any of us to speculate on how various staff members
> will
> choose to interact given this direct opportunity.  Other board members
> live
> in the immediate area and maybe they too will attend (and maybe not, we
> don't know).  This is a very short notice attendance, and since many
> board
> members have responsibilities to their employers, families, and other
> activities, they may not be able to drop everything and jump on a
> plane,
> even if they want to.
>
> Myself, I'd suggest that staff take advantage of this opportunity, with
> the
> hope of having a more responsive interaction than the November meeting.
>  It
> is in *everyone's* interest that all of the groups within the Wikimedia
> community start moving toward better integration, communication,
> transparency, and  carving out a shared vision.  This is a step. It's
> only
> a step.
>

Absolutely. Some people may have battleground mentality and wish the
whole board to resign immediately, but generally it is a good
opportunity to get out of the trenches.

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

theo10011
In reply to this post by Lodewijk
Hmm. I wonder if Jimmy is going to be named the interim boss....someone has
to be.

Finding an ED is a long painful process, something that is bound to get
more difficult after Lila and Arnon. The only question is, if the board
brings back someone or chooses to promote/move someone around. Food for
thought.

Theo


On Fri, Feb 26, 2016, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> #Iamwithrisker
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Florence Devouard-6
Le 26/02/16 16:46, Theo10011 a écrit :
> Hmm. I wonder if Jimmy is going to be named the interim boss....someone has
> to be.

Speechless...

> Finding an ED is a long painful process, something that is bound to get
> more difficult after Lila and Arnon. The only question is, if the board
> brings back someone or chooses to promote/move someone around. Food for
> thought.

Either an interim ED (there are plenty on the market in SF), but I see
way more reasons not to go down this route than benefits.

Or getting a current (or ex) C level to be interim deputy whilst the
loonnnnnggggg search process delivers its fruits.

Flo


> Theo
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> #Iamwithrisker
>> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Jimmy Wales-4
In reply to this post by GorillaWarfare
On 2/26/16 10:39 AM, GorillaWarfare wrote:
> How do you plan to communicate what you learn to the
> rest of the Board of Trustees, and to those who will be instrumental in
> shaping the changes that will happen to the WMF in the near future?

Through email, Google hangout meetings, and in person meetings.

> How do
> you plan to speak to staff members, who have seen many of their coworkers
> leave or be forced out in the last few years?

I'm scheduling 1-on-1 meetings with staff who ask to meet with me.
We'll be in a conference room.  In some cases I'll have particular
questions about things I want to learn more about; in all cases I'll
invite people to say whatever they think will be helpful.

> How do you plan to increase morale among an incredibly demoralized group?

My usual approach is to talk about our mission - it's what we are all
here for and it matters to me more than anything else.  I want to better
understand the outlines of what staff want from their next ED, so that
information can be used to help guide the search.

> But quite
> frankly, Vibber's communications with the Wikimedia community outside of
> the Foundation have far surpassed yours in clarity and transparency. I hope
> that you will improve upon your messaging, but I would like clear
> reassurance that you realize this is necessary.

Yes, this is necessary.  I'm continuing to push for more disclosure and
more openness.

> I would love to know whether you supported Lila Tretikov's departure. It is
> clear that she did not up and resign on her own, and I would like to know
> if you were one of the folks who thought her departure would be beneficial,
> or if you preferred she "weather the storm," so to speak.

I supported it with sadness.  The whole thing is a sad train wreck.

> I would also like to hear a clear statement about what you think can be
> gained from your return to San Francisco.

I hope to be helpful in moving us forward to a better state.  I've not
been as involved as I used to be in recent years, and I want to change that.

In particular, as I have been reflecting on all this, I realized that I
was much closer to Sue and much more involved in her "on boarding" and
learning about our culture.  I think I failed Lila in this regard - we
talked from time to time, but I didn't do enough to help her understand.

I can't speak for Lila, nor should I try.  But I know that for people
new to our world, it's really quite confusing.  You hear a lot of voices
and if you've been around for long enough, you get to know which ones
are important and which ones are going to complain no matter what, with
little substance.  If you listen to those who are going to complain no
matter what, you can end up fearful and burned by communication.  If you
don't listen to those who are only going to complain when it matters,
you'll miss important things.  Knowing the difference is... well...
ambiguous even in the best of times.

So to go back to your question - what can be gained from my visit to San
Francisco... it's only for a few days, but it will be followed by more
visits in the coming months.  And part of what I want to do is get a
better understanding of the specific concerns that serious people have,
so that I can be more helpful to whoever ends up being the interim ED,
and whoever ends up being our next permanent ED.

--Jimbo


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Jimmy Wales-4
In reply to this post by theo10011
On 2/26/16 3:46 PM, Theo10011 wrote:
> Hmm. I wonder if Jimmy is going to be named the interim boss....someone has
> to be.

No, that isn't going to happen.  There has been some staff and board
advocacy of it - the idea has been floated - but although I took the
idea seriously enough to think about it, I can see that it would not be
the best thing.  Day to day management is not where I can best add value
- never has been.

--Jimbo


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Lodewijk
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-6
I'm guessing speculation at this point is just moot. The board will be
deciding on this, and most likely in silence. If you have candidates, the
best way to make their case is to send their names to someone on the board.
I'm assuming they will at least announce soon a contact point for such
suggestions (likely someoen at a recruitment agency?)

Lodewijk

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Florence Devouard <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Le 26/02/16 16:46, Theo10011 a écrit :
>
>> Hmm. I wonder if Jimmy is going to be named the interim boss....someone
>> has
>> to be.
>>
>
> Speechless...
>
> Finding an ED is a long painful process, something that is bound to get
>> more difficult after Lila and Arnon. The only question is, if the board
>> brings back someone or chooses to promote/move someone around. Food for
>> thought.
>>
>
> Either an interim ED (there are plenty on the market in SF), but I see way
> more reasons not to go down this route than benefits.
>
> Or getting a current (or ex) C level to be interim deputy whilst the
> loonnnnnggggg search process delivers its fruits.
>
> Flo
>
>
>
> Theo
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> #Iamwithrisker
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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>>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Asaf Bartov-2
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales-4
On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/26/16 10:39 AM, GorillaWarfare wrote:
> > frankly, Vibber's communications with the Wikimedia community outside of
> > the Foundation have far surpassed yours in clarity and transparency. I
> hope
> > that you will improve upon your messaging, but I would like clear
> > reassurance that you realize this is necessary.
>
> Yes, this is necessary.  I'm continuing to push for more disclosure and
> more openness.
>

Who's resisting?


> In particular, as I have been reflecting on all this, I realized that I
> was much closer to Sue and much more involved in her "on boarding" and
> learning about our culture.  I think I failed Lila in this regard - we
> talked from time to time, but I didn't do enough to help her understand.
>

Don't beat yourself up over it.  Unlike the days of Sue's onboarding, when
Lila came in there was an abundance of experienced staff with significant
community experience to help immerse her in the culture and to continually
offer advice, guidance, or point out pitfalls.  This was readily and
repeatedly on offer.  It was repeatedly rejected outright, and occasionally
heard out and ignored, apparently without rationale.  (I think it's
absolutely fine, of course, to hear out the advice or perspective of
experienced staff and to decide to act otherwise, with rationale -- even if
not stated explicitly.)  I can supply concrete examples, but at this point,
it is done, and it would be better to focus on principles and on rebuilding.


> I can't speak for Lila, nor should I try.  But I know that for people
> new to our world, it's really quite confusing.  You hear a lot of voices
> and if you've been around for long enough, you get to know which ones
> are important and which ones are going to complain no matter what, with
> little substance.  If you listen to those who are going to complain no
> matter what, you can end up fearful and burned by communication.  If you
> don't listen to those who are only going to complain when it matters,
> you'll miss important things.  Knowing the difference is... well...
> ambiguous even in the best of times.
>

That's certainly true.  But again: help with that was available.  It was
discounted.


> So to go back to your question - what can be gained from my visit to San
> Francisco... it's only for a few days, but it will be followed by more
> visits in the coming months.  And part of what I want to do is get a
> better understanding of the specific concerns that serious people have,
> so that I can be more helpful to whoever ends up being the interim ED,
> and whoever ends up being our next permanent ED.
>

Excellent.  I encourage all my colleagues to make the most of this
opportunity.  I think it would be ideal if, in addition to allow people who
strongly prefer that to meet with him 1:1, we strive to meet with Jimmy as
teams or otherwise as groups, both to optimize time and make sure almost
everyone can be heard, and to create multi-perspective conversations
accompanied by note-taking.

I look forward to seeing you here soon, Jimmy.

   A.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] I am going to San Francisco

Fæ
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales-4
Thanks for considering being the interim CEO Jimmy.

Your visit sounds useful, especially "I want to better understand the
outlines of what staff want from their next ED, so that information
can be used to help guide the search." Fortunate for the trustees who
are less proactive, that they can rely on your visionary guidance at
this time, and that you can take questions and speak on their behalf.

I hope you will be able to address nagging concerns about your
personal support for keeping the search project a secret last year,
and your conflict of loyalties during that process, shortly after your
visit. No doubt you will be able to apply your excellent communication
skills when engaging with the community to ensure the process stays on
your preferred path.[1]

I look forward to the feedback from your visit being posted, Asaf's
process sounds like it would be a great opportunity for airing the
issues and getting the important ones down in black and white. With
this banked, we may all be able to move towards a common understanding
of true deep root causes and how they can shifted.

Links
1. https://genderdesk.wordpress.com/2016/01/27/jimbotalk-explodes-with-jimbo/

Writing as a committed Wikimedian with no possible conflicts of interest,
Fae

On 26 February 2016 at 20:02, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/26/16 3:46 PM, Theo10011 wrote:
>> Hmm. I wonder if Jimmy is going to be named the interim boss....someone has
>> to be.
>
> No, that isn't going to happen.  There has been some staff and board
> advocacy of it - the idea has been floated - but although I took the
> idea seriously enough to think about it, I can see that it would not be
> the best thing.  Day to day management is not where I can best add value
> - never has been.
>
> --Jimbo
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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