[Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

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[Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

David Cuenca Tudela
Hello,

Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from
different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a
"world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
Space sessions.

If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity

There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
keeping it to myself.

Regards,
Micru

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

Benjamin Ikuta


I'd be interested in hearing about perceptions of the movement.



On Feb 17, 2019, at 3:35 PM, David Cuenca Tudela <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from
> different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a
> "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
> general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
> movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
> Space sessions.
>
> If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these topics:
> - External perception of the movement
> - Recommendations to the WMF
> - Governance recommendations for the movement
> - Community model for affiliates
> - How to increase diversity
>
> There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
> topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
> keeping it to myself.
>
> Regards,
> Micru
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

Amir E. Aharoni
In reply to this post by David Cuenca Tudela
I'm interested.

I'm especially interested in any recommendation that is even remotely
related to how can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international, and
it sounds like there could be something about it there, but even if there
isn't, is love to hear the rest.

Thanks!

בתאריך יום ב׳, 18 בפבר׳ 2019, 01:36, מאת David Cuenca Tudela <
[hidden email]>:

> Hello,
>
> Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from
> different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a
> "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
> general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
> movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
> Space sessions.
>
> If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these
> topics:
> - External perception of the movement
> - Recommendations to the WMF
> - Governance recommendations for the movement
> - Community model for affiliates
> - How to increase diversity
>
> There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
> topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
> keeping it to myself.
>
> Regards,
> Micru
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin
In reply to this post by David Cuenca Tudela
Micru,
I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the movement".part of your insights.
Thanks.

from Russia with love,
farhad
https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region

-- 
Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:


18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" <[hidden email]>:

> Hello,
>
> Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from
> different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a
> "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
> general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
> movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
> Space sessions.
>
> If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these topics:
> - External perception of the movement
> - Recommendations to the WMF
> - Governance recommendations for the movement
> - Community model for affiliates
> - How to increase diversity
>
> There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
> topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
> keeping it to myself.
>
> Regards,
> Micru
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

Bodhisattwa Mandal
Hi Micru,

I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation for the
movement and community model of affiliates.

Regards,
Bodhisattwa


On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin <
[hidden email] wrote:

> Micru,
> I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the
> movement".part of your insights.
> Thanks.
>
> from Russia with love,
> farhad
> https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
>
> --
> Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 /
> skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
>
>
> 18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" <[hidden email]>:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from
> > different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> > democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a
> > "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> > interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
> > general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
> > movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
> > Space sessions.
> >
> > If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these
> topics:
> > - External perception of the movement
> > - Recommendations to the WMF
> > - Governance recommendations for the movement
> > - Community model for affiliates
> > - How to increase diversity
> >
> > There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
> > topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
> > keeping it to myself.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Micru
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

David Cuenca Tudela
In reply to this post by Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin
Hi Farkhad,

*External perception of the movement*
The Wikimedia movement is seen as a very complex entity. Most participants
knew about Wikipedia, not so many about the other projects. Even for those
who knew Wikipedia, it was not so clear how decisions are taken or what is
allowed to do. I explained the concept that the more you work with any of
the projects the more you will find out about its inner processes, or other
people will make you aware of them (because you will do something wrong or
you will try to find out or "invent" how to do something). Participants did
not understand what are the roles that are available for them, or what to
do in them, they felt that with so much freedom to do anything, they were
incapable of participating.

In a way they were marveled that just by having guidelines created and
enforced by the community, it is enough to have a working project without
any visible leadership. Leadership does exist, but it is exercised in
different ways (for instance, by participating in conversations about
policy, behaviour, or strategy). Another thing that surprised participants,
is that you can do anything that you want, that there are no restrictions
other than your own interest to do something and respecting the policies.

Participants did not know about the WMF, and did not know where the
fundraising money goes. They did not understand how the community can
participate in allocating the resources. I told them the my opinion, that
the WMF still hasn't learned how to share its leadership together with the
community and that they are operating as a company, which alienates me
because they are not respecting the spirit of the projects.

Also it was unclear to them how to interact with the community, affiliates
or the Foundation. They were not certain that they would be able to find
the right person or the right place to ask questions. It that regard they
saw the movement as a walled garden that can be contemplated from outside,
but it is very restricted to participate in. Some participants they
mentioned that Wikimedia is a faceless project, that we are very good at
presenting the faces of many important people, but that we fail miserably
at presenting our own.

A participant suggested to use the yellow banner to recruit new people
instead of using it only to raise money. The reason being that many people
would be interested in participating if they were asked to and if they were
shown how to (preferably with videos recorded by Wikimedians explaining
what they do).

Regards,
Micru


On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 7:44 AM Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Micru,
> I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the
> movement".part of your insights.
> Thanks.
>
> from Russia with love,
> farhad
> https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
>
> --
> Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 /
> skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
>
>
> 18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" <[hidden email]>:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from
> > different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> > democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a
> > "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> > interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
> > general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
> > movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
> > Space sessions.
> >
> > If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these
> topics:
> > - External perception of the movement
> > - Recommendations to the WMF
> > - Governance recommendations for the movement
> > - Community model for affiliates
> > - How to increase diversity
> >
> > There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
> > topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
> > keeping it to myself.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Micru
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Etiamsi omnes, ego non
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

David Cuenca Tudela
In reply to this post by Bodhisattwa Mandal
Hi Bodhisattwa,


*Governance recommendation *
I assisted to a session on sociocracy organized by the Transition Network
that basically blew my mind. The speaker explained how for her it has been
always difficult to participate in decision-making because she feels that
she is a very vocal person, and she felt that with democracy it was mostly
about taking sides and wining or losing, which was quite disappointing for
her. Then she started to explain the sociocratic principles of decision by
consent, and what does that mean.

What is interesting about sociocracy itself, is not the process or the
method, but how it challenges the participants to truly understand the
meaning of a decision, and their own relationship with it. Objections are
seen as a gift that will help improve the proposal, once they have been
properly understood. Normally it takes effort from the participants to
address their own personal issues as well, because they have an impact on
how the group can operate.

Trust can be built during in person sessions, and it is necessary for the
group to operate smoothly. Sociocracy is not for people who like to
accumulate power, or are not able to share power with others, and that can
drive people away. On the other hand, those who stay feel more included and
supported by the organisation. There is also an element of celebration,
which sometimes we forget. Taking decisions is hard work, and we should
celebrate when we reach one.

Sociocracy it is easy to grasp, but difficult to master. The members of the
Transition Network had to undergo a training during a long time at the
Université de Nous, to become proficient in this method. There is also a
software that assists self-organization: https://www.holaspirit.com/

Regards,
Micru

On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Micru,
>
> I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation for the
> movement and community model of affiliates.
>
> Regards,
> Bodhisattwa
>
>
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin <
> [hidden email] wrote:
>
> > Micru,
> > I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the
> > movement".part of your insights.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > from Russia with love,
> > farhad
> > https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
> >
> > --
> > Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 /
> > skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
> >
> >
> > 18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" <[hidden email]>:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from
> > > different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> > > democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a
> > > "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> > > interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
> > > general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
> > > movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
> > > Space sessions.
> > >
> > > If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these
> > topics:
> > > - External perception of the movement
> > > - Recommendations to the WMF
> > > - Governance recommendations for the movement
> > > - Community model for affiliates
> > > - How to increase diversity
> > >
> > > There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
> > > topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
> > > keeping it to myself.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Micru
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Etiamsi omnes, ego non
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

Ziko van Dijk-3
Hello, maybe there is a suitable place on Meta Wiki to conserve this? Later
it will be a little bit difficult to find it again on a mailinglist.
I myself find this point of view of "outsiders" very interesting and worth
to notice e.g. in strategic discussions.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Mo., 18. Feb. 2019 um 11:41 Uhr schrieb David Cuenca Tudela <
[hidden email]>:

> Hi Bodhisattwa,
>
>
> *Governance recommendation *
> I assisted to a session on sociocracy organized by the Transition Network
> that basically blew my mind. The speaker explained how for her it has been
> always difficult to participate in decision-making because she feels that
> she is a very vocal person, and she felt that with democracy it was mostly
> about taking sides and wining or losing, which was quite disappointing for
> her. Then she started to explain the sociocratic principles of decision by
> consent, and what does that mean.
>
> What is interesting about sociocracy itself, is not the process or the
> method, but how it challenges the participants to truly understand the
> meaning of a decision, and their own relationship with it. Objections are
> seen as a gift that will help improve the proposal, once they have been
> properly understood. Normally it takes effort from the participants to
> address their own personal issues as well, because they have an impact on
> how the group can operate.
>
> Trust can be built during in person sessions, and it is necessary for the
> group to operate smoothly. Sociocracy is not for people who like to
> accumulate power, or are not able to share power with others, and that can
> drive people away. On the other hand, those who stay feel more included and
> supported by the organisation. There is also an element of celebration,
> which sometimes we forget. Taking decisions is hard work, and we should
> celebrate when we reach one.
>
> Sociocracy it is easy to grasp, but difficult to master. The members of the
> Transition Network had to undergo a training during a long time at the
> Université de Nous, to become proficient in this method. There is also a
> software that assists self-organization: https://www.holaspirit.com/
>
> Regards,
> Micru
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Micru,
> >
> > I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation for
> the
> > movement and community model of affiliates.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bodhisattwa
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin <
> > [hidden email] wrote:
> >
> > > Micru,
> > > I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the
> > > movement".part of your insights.
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > from Russia with love,
> > > farhad
> > > https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
> > >
> > > --
> > > Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066
> /
> > > skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
> > >
> > >
> > > 18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" <[hidden email]>:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people
> from
> > > > different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> > > > democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in
> a
> > > > "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> > > > interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
> > > > general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
> > > > movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
> > > > Space sessions.
> > > >
> > > > If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of
> these
> > > topics:
> > > > - External perception of the movement
> > > > - Recommendations to the WMF
> > > > - Governance recommendations for the movement
> > > > - Community model for affiliates
> > > > - How to increase diversity
> > > >
> > > > There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
> > > > topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
> > > > keeping it to myself.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Micru
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Etiamsi omnes, ego non
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

David Cuenca Tudela
In reply to this post by Bodhisattwa Mandal
Hi Bodhisattwa,


*Community model of affiliates *
Many participants reported difficulties building trust with volunteers. It
is very easy to lose the volunteer appeal if the organisation is not
conscious about their needs, and there is no active communication. I
reported the case of Amical, which is the one that I know well, and it is
the only model that I trust.

The model of Amical is based on friendship. Volunteers and members of the
organisation are bound by the mission, but that doesn't mean that it is the
only kind of connection that it should exist between them. For
organizations that are geographically close, the ideal scenario is to have
some kind of mutual personal understanding and not focus only on the
projects. Wikimedians can be interesting people to get to know better so,
why not organize events where people just talk or have fun together without
editing anything?

When there is a personal relationship, it becomes easier to modulate
frustrations and deal with them more effectively than through online
channels. Written communication is deprived of the human element, and it
should be used as little as possible.

What is important to know is that our communities are open systems, however
in order to enter them, one must be ready to be changed by them, and the
organisation should be open to be changed by new members. This should
happen at different levels, but of course, it should be possible for anyone
to enter an organization informally, and over time reach the core.

Regards,
Micru

On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Micru,
>
> I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation for the
> movement and community model of affiliates.
>
> Regards,
> Bodhisattwa
>
>
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin <
> [hidden email] wrote:
>
> > Micru,
> > I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the
> > movement".part of your insights.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > from Russia with love,
> > farhad
> > https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
> >
> > --
> > Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 /
> > skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
> >
> >
> > 18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" <[hidden email]>:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from
> > > different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> > > democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a
> > > "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> > > interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
> > > general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
> > > movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
> > > Space sessions.
> > >
> > > If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these
> > topics:
> > > - External perception of the movement
> > > - Recommendations to the WMF
> > > - Governance recommendations for the movement
> > > - Community model for affiliates
> > > - How to increase diversity
> > >
> > > There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
> > > topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
> > > keeping it to myself.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Micru
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

David Cuenca Tudela
In reply to this post by Amir E. Aharoni
Hi Amir,


*How can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international *
Participants reported that the current definition of knowledge by Wikimedia
projects is narrow-minded and does not fit the relationship with knowledge
that exists in other parts of the world. The only way to break this cycle
of cultural colonisation would be to actually research the needs of other
communities, and how we can create a project that fits those needs. It is
naive to expect that one tool can fit all, and while Wikipedia et al have
covered many important niches, it is well possible that there are other
elements that we are not seeing because we are not explaining our projects
to people who could give us ideas about how to go further. There is also a
lot of knowledge that could be interesting to collect, but does not fit in
any of our projects yet.

In that regard, thanks to the input of the participants, and my own
experience, I came up with some ideas that I would like to present in
Wikimania if I am given the opportunity.

Regards,
Micru

On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 6:49 AM Amir E. Aharoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm interested.
>
> I'm especially interested in any recommendation that is even remotely
> related to how can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international, and
> it sounds like there could be something about it there, but even if there
> isn't, is love to hear the rest.
>
> Thanks!
>
> בתאריך יום ב׳, 18 בפבר׳ 2019, 01:36, מאת David Cuenca Tudela <
> [hidden email]>:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from
> > different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> > democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a
> > "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> > interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
> > general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
> > movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
> > Space sessions.
> >
> > If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these
> > topics:
> > - External perception of the movement
> > - Recommendations to the WMF
> > - Governance recommendations for the movement
> > - Community model for affiliates
> > - How to increase diversity
> >
> > There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
> > topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
> > keeping it to myself.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Micru
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

Benjamin Ikuta



Thank you for this.

Could you elaborate on the definition of knowledge, please?

This is something I've long been interested in.




On Feb 18, 2019, at 3:04 AM, David Cuenca Tudela <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Amir,
>
>
> *How can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international *
> Participants reported that the current definition of knowledge by Wikimedia
> projects is narrow-minded and does not fit the relationship with knowledge
> that exists in other parts of the world. The only way to break this cycle
> of cultural colonisation would be to actually research the needs of other
> communities, and how we can create a project that fits those needs. It is
> naive to expect that one tool can fit all, and while Wikipedia et al have
> covered many important niches, it is well possible that there are other
> elements that we are not seeing because we are not explaining our projects
> to people who could give us ideas about how to go further. There is also a
> lot of knowledge that could be interesting to collect, but does not fit in
> any of our projects yet.
>
> In that regard, thanks to the input of the participants, and my own
> experience, I came up with some ideas that I would like to present in
> Wikimania if I am given the opportunity.
>
> Regards,
> Micru
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 6:49 AM Amir E. Aharoni <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'm interested.
>>
>> I'm especially interested in any recommendation that is even remotely
>> related to how can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international, and
>> it sounds like there could be something about it there, but even if there
>> isn't, is love to hear the rest.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> בתאריך יום ב׳, 18 בפבר׳ 2019, 01:36, מאת David Cuenca Tudela <
>> [hidden email]>:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from
>>> different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
>>> democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a
>>> "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
>>> interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
>>> general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
>>> movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
>>> Space sessions.
>>>
>>> If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these
>>> topics:
>>> - External perception of the movement
>>> - Recommendations to the WMF
>>> - Governance recommendations for the movement
>>> - Community model for affiliates
>>> - How to increase diversity
>>>
>>> There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
>>> topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
>>> keeping it to myself.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Micru
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Etiamsi omnes, ego non
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

David Cuenca Tudela
In reply to this post by Ziko van Dijk-3
@Benjamin: It is already there, as answer to Farkhad.

@Ziko: I have no idea where to store this. If you find a suitable place,
please go ahead and let me know.

Regards,
Micru

On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 3:11 PM Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello, maybe there is a suitable place on Meta Wiki to conserve this? Later
> it will be a little bit difficult to find it again on a mailinglist.
> I myself find this point of view of "outsiders" very interesting and worth
> to notice e.g. in strategic discussions.
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
> Am Mo., 18. Feb. 2019 um 11:41 Uhr schrieb David Cuenca Tudela <
> [hidden email]>:
>
> > Hi Bodhisattwa,
> >
> >
> > *Governance recommendation *
> > I assisted to a session on sociocracy organized by the Transition Network
> > that basically blew my mind. The speaker explained how for her it has
> been
> > always difficult to participate in decision-making because she feels that
> > she is a very vocal person, and she felt that with democracy it was
> mostly
> > about taking sides and wining or losing, which was quite disappointing
> for
> > her. Then she started to explain the sociocratic principles of decision
> by
> > consent, and what does that mean.
> >
> > What is interesting about sociocracy itself, is not the process or the
> > method, but how it challenges the participants to truly understand the
> > meaning of a decision, and their own relationship with it. Objections are
> > seen as a gift that will help improve the proposal, once they have been
> > properly understood. Normally it takes effort from the participants to
> > address their own personal issues as well, because they have an impact on
> > how the group can operate.
> >
> > Trust can be built during in person sessions, and it is necessary for the
> > group to operate smoothly. Sociocracy is not for people who like to
> > accumulate power, or are not able to share power with others, and that
> can
> > drive people away. On the other hand, those who stay feel more included
> and
> > supported by the organisation. There is also an element of celebration,
> > which sometimes we forget. Taking decisions is hard work, and we should
> > celebrate when we reach one.
> >
> > Sociocracy it is easy to grasp, but difficult to master. The members of
> the
> > Transition Network had to undergo a training during a long time at the
> > Université de Nous, to become proficient in this method. There is also a
> > software that assists self-organization: https://www.holaspirit.com/
> >
> > Regards,
> > Micru
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Micru,
> > >
> > > I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation for
> > the
> > > movement and community model of affiliates.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Bodhisattwa
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin <
> > > [hidden email] wrote:
> > >
> > > > Micru,
> > > > I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the
> > > > movement".part of your insights.
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > from Russia with love,
> > > > farhad
> > > > https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/
> Тел.+79274158066
> > /
> > > > skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" <[hidden email]>:
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people
> > from
> > > > > different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> > > > > democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers
> in
> > a
> > > > > "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> > > > > interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
> > > > > general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
> > > > > movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
> > > > > Space sessions.
> > > > >
> > > > > If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of
> > these
> > > > topics:
> > > > > - External perception of the movement
> > > > > - Recommendations to the WMF
> > > > > - Governance recommendations for the movement
> > > > > - Community model for affiliates
> > > > > - How to increase diversity
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about
> the
> > > > > topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
> > > > > keeping it to myself.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Micru
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Etiamsi omnes, ego non
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Etiamsi omnes, ego non
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

Chris Keating-2
Hi Micru,

How about documenting your insights on here. I know a number of people in
the Roles & Responsibilities group have been reading with interest, thank
you very much for sharing.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Roles_%26_Responsibilities

Chris


On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 4:23 PM David Cuenca Tudela <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> @Benjamin: It is already there, as answer to Farkhad.
>
> @Ziko: I have no idea where to store this. If you find a suitable place,
> please go ahead and let me know.
>
> Regards,
> Micru
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 3:11 PM Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hello, maybe there is a suitable place on Meta Wiki to conserve this?
> Later
> > it will be a little bit difficult to find it again on a mailinglist.
> > I myself find this point of view of "outsiders" very interesting and
> worth
> > to notice e.g. in strategic discussions.
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> > Am Mo., 18. Feb. 2019 um 11:41 Uhr schrieb David Cuenca Tudela <
> > [hidden email]>:
> >
> > > Hi Bodhisattwa,
> > >
> > >
> > > *Governance recommendation *
> > > I assisted to a session on sociocracy organized by the Transition
> Network
> > > that basically blew my mind. The speaker explained how for her it has
> > been
> > > always difficult to participate in decision-making because she feels
> that
> > > she is a very vocal person, and she felt that with democracy it was
> > mostly
> > > about taking sides and wining or losing, which was quite disappointing
> > for
> > > her. Then she started to explain the sociocratic principles of decision
> > by
> > > consent, and what does that mean.
> > >
> > > What is interesting about sociocracy itself, is not the process or the
> > > method, but how it challenges the participants to truly understand the
> > > meaning of a decision, and their own relationship with it. Objections
> are
> > > seen as a gift that will help improve the proposal, once they have been
> > > properly understood. Normally it takes effort from the participants to
> > > address their own personal issues as well, because they have an impact
> on
> > > how the group can operate.
> > >
> > > Trust can be built during in person sessions, and it is necessary for
> the
> > > group to operate smoothly. Sociocracy is not for people who like to
> > > accumulate power, or are not able to share power with others, and that
> > can
> > > drive people away. On the other hand, those who stay feel more included
> > and
> > > supported by the organisation. There is also an element of celebration,
> > > which sometimes we forget. Taking decisions is hard work, and we should
> > > celebrate when we reach one.
> > >
> > > Sociocracy it is easy to grasp, but difficult to master. The members of
> > the
> > > Transition Network had to undergo a training during a long time at the
> > > Université de Nous, to become proficient in this method. There is also
> a
> > > software that assists self-organization: https://www.holaspirit.com/
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Micru
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Micru,
> > > >
> > > > I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation
> for
> > > the
> > > > movement and community model of affiliates.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Bodhisattwa
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin <
> > > > [hidden email] wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Micru,
> > > > > I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the
> > > > > movement".part of your insights.
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > from Russia with love,
> > > > > farhad
> > > > > https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/
> > Тел.+79274158066
> > > /
> > > > > skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" <[hidden email]>:
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people
> > > from
> > > > > > different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> > > > > > democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers
> > in
> > > a
> > > > > > "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> > > > > > interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement
> in
> > > > > > general, with the intention that participants would learn from
> our
> > > > > > movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also
> Open
> > > > > > Space sessions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of
> > > these
> > > > > topics:
> > > > > > - External perception of the movement
> > > > > > - Recommendations to the WMF
> > > > > > - Governance recommendations for the movement
> > > > > > - Community model for affiliates
> > > > > > - How to increase diversity
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about
> > the
> > > > > > topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm
> ok
> > > > > > keeping it to myself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Micru
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Etiamsi omnes, ego non
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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>
> --
> Etiamsi omnes, ego non
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

David Cuenca Tudela
@Benjamin: I tried to put it into words, but I have realized that what I
have to say doesn't fit well into a short text. If you are really
interested, send me an email with your availability and we can have a video
call about it.

@Chris: Thanks for the recommendation, but I don't feel like pasting it
there without proper context, and it is not my priority right now. If you
or any of them want more details they can contact me any time.

Regards,
Micru

On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 12:08 PM Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Micru,
>
> How about documenting your insights on here. I know a number of people in
> the Roles & Responsibilities group have been reading with interest, thank
> you very much for sharing.
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Roles_%26_Responsibilities
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 4:23 PM David Cuenca Tudela <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > @Benjamin: It is already there, as answer to Farkhad.
> >
> > @Ziko: I have no idea where to store this. If you find a suitable place,
> > please go ahead and let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Micru
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 3:11 PM Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello, maybe there is a suitable place on Meta Wiki to conserve this?
> > Later
> > > it will be a little bit difficult to find it again on a mailinglist.
> > > I myself find this point of view of "outsiders" very interesting and
> > worth
> > > to notice e.g. in strategic discussions.
> > > Kind regards
> > > Ziko
> > >
> > > Am Mo., 18. Feb. 2019 um 11:41 Uhr schrieb David Cuenca Tudela <
> > > [hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > Hi Bodhisattwa,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Governance recommendation *
> > > > I assisted to a session on sociocracy organized by the Transition
> > Network
> > > > that basically blew my mind. The speaker explained how for her it has
> > > been
> > > > always difficult to participate in decision-making because she feels
> > that
> > > > she is a very vocal person, and she felt that with democracy it was
> > > mostly
> > > > about taking sides and wining or losing, which was quite
> disappointing
> > > for
> > > > her. Then she started to explain the sociocratic principles of
> decision
> > > by
> > > > consent, and what does that mean.
> > > >
> > > > What is interesting about sociocracy itself, is not the process or
> the
> > > > method, but how it challenges the participants to truly understand
> the
> > > > meaning of a decision, and their own relationship with it. Objections
> > are
> > > > seen as a gift that will help improve the proposal, once they have
> been
> > > > properly understood. Normally it takes effort from the participants
> to
> > > > address their own personal issues as well, because they have an
> impact
> > on
> > > > how the group can operate.
> > > >
> > > > Trust can be built during in person sessions, and it is necessary for
> > the
> > > > group to operate smoothly. Sociocracy is not for people who like to
> > > > accumulate power, or are not able to share power with others, and
> that
> > > can
> > > > drive people away. On the other hand, those who stay feel more
> included
> > > and
> > > > supported by the organisation. There is also an element of
> celebration,
> > > > which sometimes we forget. Taking decisions is hard work, and we
> should
> > > > celebrate when we reach one.
> > > >
> > > > Sociocracy it is easy to grasp, but difficult to master. The members
> of
> > > the
> > > > Transition Network had to undergo a training during a long time at
> the
> > > > Université de Nous, to become proficient in this method. There is
> also
> > a
> > > > software that assists self-organization: https://www.holaspirit.com/
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Micru
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Micru,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > movement and community model of affiliates.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Bodhisattwa
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin <
> > > > > [hidden email] wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Micru,
> > > > > > I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the
> > > > > > movement".part of your insights.
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > from Russia with love,
> > > > > > farhad
> > > > > > https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/
> > > Тел.+79274158066
> > > > /
> > > > > > skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" <[hidden email]>:
> > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where
> people
> > > > from
> > > > > > > different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> > > > > > > democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four
> speakers
> > > in
> > > > a
> > > > > > > "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> > > > > > > interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia
> movement
> > in
> > > > > > > general, with the intention that participants would learn from
> > our
> > > > > > > movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also
> > Open
> > > > > > > Space sessions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any
> of
> > > > these
> > > > > > topics:
> > > > > > > - External perception of the movement
> > > > > > > - Recommendations to the WMF
> > > > > > > - Governance recommendations for the movement
> > > > > > > - Community model for affiliates
> > > > > > > - How to increase diversity
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only
> about
> > > the
> > > > > > > topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest,
> I'm
> > ok
> > > > > > > keeping it to myself.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > Micru
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
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> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Etiamsi omnes, ego non
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Etiamsi omnes, ego non
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
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--
Etiamsi omnes, ego non
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

Mark Rousell
In reply to this post by David Cuenca Tudela
On 18/02/2019 11:04, David Cuenca Tudela wrote:
> the current definition of knowledge by Wikimedia
> projects is narrow-minded and does not fit the relationship with knowledge
> that exists in other parts of the world.

This sounds intriguing. Can you expand on it?

--
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

David Cuenca Tudela
Hi Mark,
Benjamin and me we had a Skype conversation about this topic. Maybe he can
elaborate with his insights?
Regards
Micru

On Thu, 21 Feb 2019, 19:11 Mark Rousell, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 18/02/2019 11:04, David Cuenca Tudela wrote:
> > the current definition of knowledge by Wikimedia
> > projects is narrow-minded and does not fit the relationship with
> knowledge
> > that exists in other parts of the world.
>
> This sounds intriguing. Can you expand on it?
>
> --
> Mark Rousell
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

Amir E. Aharoni
In reply to this post by David Cuenca Tudela
בתאריך יום ב׳, 18 בפבר׳ 2019, 13:04, מאת David Cuenca Tudela ‏<
[hidden email]>:

> Hi Amir,
>
>
> *How can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international *
> Participants reported that the current definition of knowledge by Wikimedia
> projects is narrow-minded and does not fit the relationship with knowledge
> that exists in other parts of the world.


What is our definition of knowledge?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

David Cuenca Tudela
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019, 08:27 Amir E. Aharoni, <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> What is our definition of knowledge?
>

In my opinion, the informal definition would be: all the information that
the Wikimedia community allows into their projects.

Regards,
Micru

>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

Amir E. Aharoni
‫בתאריך יום ו׳, 22 בפבר׳ 2019 ב-10:30 מאת ‪David Cuenca Tudela‬‏ <‪
[hidden email]‬‏>:‬

> On Fri, 22 Feb 2019, 08:27 Amir E. Aharoni, <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > What is our definition of knowledge?
> >
>
> In my opinion, the informal definition would be: all the information that
> the Wikimedia community allows into their projects.
>

OK, that makes sense. It can even be formal :)

Do the people to whom you speak have the same understanding of what our
definition of knowledge is?

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

Peter Southwood
That would be a fair operational definition in our context, but it does not predict well for all instances.
Cheers
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Amir E. Aharoni
Sent: 22 February 2019 10:39
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

‫בתאריך יום ו׳, 22 בפבר׳ 2019 ב-10:30 מאת ‪David Cuenca Tudela‬‏ <‪
[hidden email]‬‏>:‬

> On Fri, 22 Feb 2019, 08:27 Amir E. Aharoni, <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > What is our definition of knowledge?
> >
>
> In my opinion, the informal definition would be: all the information that
> the Wikimedia community allows into their projects.
>

OK, that makes sense. It can even be formal :)

Do the people to whom you speak have the same understanding of what our
definition of knowledge is?

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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---
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