[Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

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[Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Pax Ahimsa Gethen
Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and
Wikipedia.[1] I'm posting because there's an active discussion in
Wikipedia Weekly on Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania
2018.[2] I am concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into
account the safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the
conference, but also those living in the host country.

As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going about
my daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by the
way; I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me
to use the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in
mind when planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.

- Pax aka Funcrunch

[1]
http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-wikiconference-north-america/

[2]
https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/1114259788621851/

--
Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Anna Stillwell
These are lovely suggestions / requests. Thank you for raising them. I'm
happy to hear of your positive experience at WikiConference.

+1
/a

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
> last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and Wikipedia.[1]
> I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia Weekly on
> Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
> concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
> safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference, but also
> those living in the host country.
>
> As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
> places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going about my
> daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by the way;
> I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me to use
> the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind when
> planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.
>
> - Pax aka Funcrunch
>
> [1] http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-
> wikiconference-north-america/
>
> [2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/
> 1114259788621851/
>
> --
> Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>




--
Anna Stillwell
Director of Culture
Wikimedia Foundation
415.806.1536
*www.wikimediafoundation.org <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Pax Ahimsa Gethen
Thanks Anna. I forgot to include this relevant link (which I also posted
in the Facebook discussion):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

- Pax


On 10/16/16 10:14 AM, Anna Stillwell wrote:

> These are lovely suggestions / requests. Thank you for raising them. I'm
> happy to hear of your positive experience at WikiConference.
>
> +1
> /a
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
>> last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and Wikipedia.[1]
>> I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia Weekly on
>> Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
>> concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
>> safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference, but also
>> those living in the host country.
>>
>> As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
>> places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going about my
>> daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by the way;
>> I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me to use
>> the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind when
>> planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.
>>
>> - Pax aka Funcrunch
>>
>> [1] http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-
>> wikiconference-north-america/
>>
>> [2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/
>> 1114259788621851/
>>
--
Pax Ahimsa Gethen| http://funcrunch.org


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Pine W
In reply to this post by Pax Ahimsa Gethen
Hi Pax,

My understanding is that WMF is doing a strategic review of Wikimania. If
that is correct, considerations like the ones you raise about location
could be included in the scope of that review. I'm pinging Ellie with the
hope that she can provide information about the status of WMF's thinking
about Wikimania, perhaps in a new thread. Wikimania involves significant
amounts of time and money, and I am hoping that WMF will develop ways to
align Wikimania with WMF and community strategic goals.

Pine

On Oct 16, 2016 08:10, "Pax Ahimsa Gethen" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
> last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and Wikipedia.[1]
> I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia Weekly on
> Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
> concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
> safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference, but also
> those living in the host country.
>
> As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
> places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going about my
> daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by the way;
> I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me to use
> the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind when
> planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.
>
> - Pax aka Funcrunch
>
> [1] http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-
> wikiconference-north-america/
>
> [2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/
> 1114259788621851/
>
> --
> Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Amir Sarabadani-2
We talked about this in the LGBT meetup in Wikimania several times. As far
as I remember it is a huge concern for coordinators and Wikimania committee
when considering a bid for Wikimania. IIRC, there are several examples that
situation of LGBT laws was a reason to reject a bid.

So I assure you Wikimania committee is aware of these issues and keeps this
in their mind when deciding on bids. (I must note I'm not in these
committees. I talked about it with them before as a member of Wikimedia
LGBT)

I'm really saddened by the stupid laws made by ignorance of people. Let's
laugh at it and then educate them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIvCh3EQv1Q :)

Best

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 8:57 PM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Pax,
>
> My understanding is that WMF is doing a strategic review of Wikimania. If
> that is correct, considerations like the ones you raise about location
> could be included in the scope of that review. I'm pinging Ellie with the
> hope that she can provide information about the status of WMF's thinking
> about Wikimania, perhaps in a new thread. Wikimania involves significant
> amounts of time and money, and I am hoping that WMF will develop ways to
> align Wikimania with WMF and community strategic goals.
>
> Pine
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 08:10, "Pax Ahimsa Gethen" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
> last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and Wikipedia.[1]
> I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia Weekly on
> Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
> concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
> safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference, but also
> those living in the host country.
>
> As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
> places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going about my
> daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by the way;
> I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me to use
> the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind when
> planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.
>
> - Pax aka Funcrunch
>
> [1]
> http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-wikiconference-north-america/
>
> [2]
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/1114259788621851/
>
> --
> Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Pax Ahimsa Gethen
That's good to hear. And thanks for the video link. :-) - Pax


On 10/16/16 11:04 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:

> We talked about this in the LGBT meetup in Wikimania several times. As far
> as I remember it is a huge concern for coordinators and Wikimania committee
> when considering a bid for Wikimania. IIRC, there are several examples that
> situation of LGBT laws was a reason to reject a bid.
>
> So I assure you Wikimania committee is aware of these issues and keeps this
> in their mind when deciding on bids. (I must note I'm not in these
> committees. I talked about it with them before as a member of Wikimedia
> LGBT)
>
> I'm really saddened by the stupid laws made by ignorance of people. Let's
> laugh at it and then educate them:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIvCh3EQv1Q :)
>
> Best
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 8:57 PM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Pax,
>>
>> My understanding is that WMF is doing a strategic review of Wikimania. If
>> that is correct, considerations like the ones you raise about location
>> could be included in the scope of that review. I'm pinging Ellie with the
>> hope that she can provide information about the status of WMF's thinking
>> about Wikimania, perhaps in a new thread. Wikimania involves significant
>> amounts of time and money, and I am hoping that WMF will develop ways to
>> align Wikimania with WMF and community strategic goals.
>>
>> Pine
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016 08:10, "Pax Ahimsa Gethen" <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
>> last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and Wikipedia.[1]
>> I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia Weekly on
>> Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
>> concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
>> safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference, but also
>> those living in the host country.
>>
>> As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
>> places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going about my
>> daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by the way;
>> I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me to use
>> the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind when
>> planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.
>>
>> - Pax aka Funcrunch
>>
>> [1]
>> http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-wikiconference-north-america/
>>
>> [2]
>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/1114259788621851/
>>


--
Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Ilario Valdelli
In reply to this post by Pax Ahimsa Gethen
Hi,
I suppose that it should be a group of people to give relevant reasons
and to be more proactive when selecting a bid mainly if connected with a
poor respect of rights or with the safety of some specific diversities.

The link you give is more related to the rights than to the safety of
people. In my opinion is incomplete. For instance North Carolina is not
mentioned and looking at your link I would suppose that the whole USA is
a safety place.

I would suggest to your group/you to list places where your life can be
at risk, places where diversities like LGBT are not accepted, and safety
countries or towns. Afterwards to push it as important aspect/policy to
consider when selecting a town for a conference within Wikimania community.

This may help a lot and may give more useful and transparent material to
the selection committee of Wiki conferences (because I have understood
that your reasons would include the selection not only of Wikimania).

Kind regards

On 16.10.2016 19:20, Pax Ahimsa Gethen wrote:

> Thanks Anna. I forgot to include this relevant link (which I also
> posted in the Facebook discussion):
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory
>
> - Pax
>
>
> On 10/16/16 10:14 AM, Anna Stillwell wrote:
>> These are lovely suggestions / requests. Thank you for raising them. I'm
>> happy to hear of your positive experience at WikiConference.
>>
>> +1
>> /a
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
>>> last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and
>>> Wikipedia.[1]
>>> I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia Weekly on
>>> Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
>>> concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
>>> safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference, but
>>> also
>>> those living in the host country.
>>>
>>> As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
>>> places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going
>>> about my
>>> daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by
>>> the way;
>>> I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me to
>>> use
>>> the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind when
>>> planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.
>>>
>>> - Pax aka Funcrunch
>>>
>>> [1] http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-
>>> wikiconference-north-america/
>>>
>>> [2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/
>>> 1114259788621851/
>>>


--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


---
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Pax Ahimsa Gethen
Agreed, that link is just a broad overview. There are many other pages
that drill down to specific laws and policies of regions and cities that
affect the safety of LGBT+ people. From Amir Ladsgroup's reply it does
sound like the Wikimania committee is aware of these issues and taking
them seriously. Hopefully all conference and meetup planners will do the
same.

- Pax


On 10/16/16 11:45 AM, Ilario Valdelli wrote:

> Hi,
> I suppose that it should be a group of people to give relevant reasons
> and to be more proactive when selecting a bid mainly if connected with
> a poor respect of rights or with the safety of some specific diversities.
>
> The link you give is more related to the rights than to the safety of
> people. In my opinion is incomplete. For instance North Carolina is
> not mentioned and looking at your link I would suppose that the whole
> USA is a safety place.
>
> I would suggest to your group/you to list places where your life can
> be at risk, places where diversities like LGBT are not accepted, and
> safety countries or towns. Afterwards to push it as important
> aspect/policy to consider when selecting a town for a conference
> within Wikimania community.
>
> This may help a lot and may give more useful and transparent material
> to the selection committee of Wiki conferences (because I have
> understood that your reasons would include the selection not only of
> Wikimania).
>
> Kind regards
>
> On 16.10.2016 19:20, Pax Ahimsa Gethen wrote:
>> Thanks Anna. I forgot to include this relevant link (which I also
>> posted in the Facebook discussion):
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory
>>
>> - Pax
>>
>>
>> On 10/16/16 10:14 AM, Anna Stillwell wrote:
>>> These are lovely suggestions / requests. Thank you for raising them.
>>> I'm
>>> happy to hear of your positive experience at WikiConference.
>>>
>>> +1
>>> /a
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
>>>> last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and
>>>> Wikipedia.[1]
>>>> I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia
>>>> Weekly on
>>>> Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
>>>> concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
>>>> safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference,
>>>> but also
>>>> those living in the host country.
>>>>
>>>> As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
>>>> places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going
>>>> about my
>>>> daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by
>>>> the way;
>>>> I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me
>>>> to use
>>>> the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind
>>>> when
>>>> planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> - Pax aka Funcrunch
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-
>>>> wikiconference-north-america/
>>>>
>>>> [2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/
>>>> 1114259788621851/
>>>>

--
Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Amir Sarabadani-2
There are two aspects in this situation. We have the law and we have the
enforcement. We know that most of ME countries have laws against LGBT
people and actively enforce it but for example in India even though there
is a law but it's not being enforced. On the other hand in North Carolina
(and lots of red states) we have the bathroom bill but not really enforced
(Imagine a policeman standing in every bathroom checking people's IDs) *but
*if police sees a trans person walking down the street they might arrest
him/her because of other reasons such as not having prescription
of hormone drugs (See the video) so they are enforcing an unwritten law
which is crazy and making the situation more complex.

The committee needs to take this into consideration.

Best

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 10:34 PM Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Agreed, that link is just a broad overview. There are many other pages
> that drill down to specific laws and policies of regions and cities that
> affect the safety of LGBT+ people. From Amir Ladsgroup's reply it does
> sound like the Wikimania committee is aware of these issues and taking
> them seriously. Hopefully all conference and meetup planners will do the
> same.
>
> - Pax
>
>
> On 10/16/16 11:45 AM, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I suppose that it should be a group of people to give relevant reasons
> > and to be more proactive when selecting a bid mainly if connected with
> > a poor respect of rights or with the safety of some specific diversities.
> >
> > The link you give is more related to the rights than to the safety of
> > people. In my opinion is incomplete. For instance North Carolina is
> > not mentioned and looking at your link I would suppose that the whole
> > USA is a safety place.
> >
> > I would suggest to your group/you to list places where your life can
> > be at risk, places where diversities like LGBT are not accepted, and
> > safety countries or towns. Afterwards to push it as important
> > aspect/policy to consider when selecting a town for a conference
> > within Wikimania community.
> >
> > This may help a lot and may give more useful and transparent material
> > to the selection committee of Wiki conferences (because I have
> > understood that your reasons would include the selection not only of
> > Wikimania).
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > On 16.10.2016 19:20, Pax Ahimsa Gethen wrote:
> >> Thanks Anna. I forgot to include this relevant link (which I also
> >> posted in the Facebook discussion):
> >>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory
> >>
> >> - Pax
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/16/16 10:14 AM, Anna Stillwell wrote:
> >>> These are lovely suggestions / requests. Thank you for raising them.
> >>> I'm
> >>> happy to hear of your positive experience at WikiConference.
> >>>
> >>> +1
> >>> /a
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
> >>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
> >>>> last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and
> >>>> Wikipedia.[1]
> >>>> I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia
> >>>> Weekly on
> >>>> Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
> >>>> concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
> >>>> safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference,
> >>>> but also
> >>>> those living in the host country.
> >>>>
> >>>> As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
> >>>> places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going
> >>>> about my
> >>>> daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by
> >>>> the way;
> >>>> I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me
> >>>> to use
> >>>> the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind
> >>>> when
> >>>> planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.
> >>>>
> >>>> - Pax aka Funcrunch
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-
> >>>> wikiconference-north-america/
> >>>>
> >>>> [2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/
> >>>> 1114259788621851/
> >>>>
>
> --
> Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Ellie Young
In reply to this post by Pine W
Yes we are doing a review and I can vouch that issues like this will always
be a part of the criteria when selecting a venue.  In most of the recent
Wikimanias the selection committee and WMF have included the security of
our LGBT community as one of the criteria when considering bids.

Another critical issue that you mention below  when deciding what to do for
future Wikimanias  is whether the conference in its present form (program,
location, etc.) is serving the community and WMF.   That is a longer
conversation that I hope we can continue to have and make some progress in
the near future.

Ellie




On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Pax,
>
> My understanding is that WMF is doing a strategic review of Wikimania. If
> that is correct, considerations like the ones you raise about location
> could be included in the scope of that review. I'm pinging Ellie with the
> hope that she can provide information about the status of WMF's thinking
> about Wikimania, perhaps in a new thread. Wikimania involves significant
> amounts of time and money, and I am hoping that WMF will develop ways to
> align Wikimania with WMF and community strategic goals.
>
> Pine
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 08:10, "Pax Ahimsa Gethen" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
>> last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and Wikipedia.[1]
>> I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia Weekly on
>> Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
>> concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
>> safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference, but also
>> those living in the host country.
>>
>> As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
>> places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going about my
>> daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by the way;
>> I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me to use
>> the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind when
>> planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.
>>
>> - Pax aka Funcrunch
>>
>> [1] http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-w
>> ikiconference-north-america/
>>
>> [2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/11
>> 14259788621851/
>>
>> --
>> Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>


--
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Events Manager
Wikimedia Foundation
[hidden email]
c. 510 701 8649
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Pine W
Thanks Ellie.

On the topic of event safety, I am wondering if there is a standard
checklist that WMF uses when narrowing potential sites for Wikimanias and
if you could make that checklist public. Perhaps it is public already but I
don't know where to find it.

Regarding Wikimania goals and strategy, I'd like to suggest that WMF take a
look at what our friends in WMDE have done with the Wikimedia Conference to
increase focus on specific topics and to make conference outcomes a bit
clearer and more measurable.

I also like that WMDE devotes significant staff support to the conference,
which decreases the burden on volunteers; I would like to see a similar
shift for Wikimania so the event is less dependent on heroic efforts from
volunteers. I realize that there is financial cost involved with increased
staff support for conferences; this is one area in which increased
expenditure makes sense to me.

I look forward to hearing about further developments.

Thanks,

Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Fæ
In reply to this post by Ellie Young
Ellie, thanks for the response. Could the criteria you mention be
published on-wiki? Holding an open and transparent process for
selecting host locations for Wikimania should be a requirement on the
selection committee, so there ought to be nothing stopping this from
happening. If the applied criteria has already been published I would
appreciate a link.

It's nice that the security of the LGBT+ community is one of the
criteria, however it would be better if host locations were guaranteed
to be chosen where the LGBT+ community would be openly welcome, rather
than tolerated or not subject to arrest.

Thanks,
Fae

On 17 October 2016 at 22:39, Ellie Young <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes we are doing a review and I can vouch that issues like this will always
> be a part of the criteria when selecting a venue.  In most of the recent
> Wikimanias the selection committee and WMF have included the security of
> our LGBT community as one of the criteria when considering bids.
>
> Another critical issue that you mention below  when deciding what to do for
> future Wikimanias  is whether the conference in its present form (program,
> location, etc.) is serving the community and WMF.   That is a longer
> conversation that I hope we can continue to have and make some progress in
> the near future.
>
> Ellie

--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by Ellie Young
Hoi,
I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe. All the
specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels problematic
when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture for me
is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what it stands
for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to India to
South Africa.

They all have their issues but remember what our aim is not for the perfect
holiday destination. We aim to bring the sum of all knowledge everywhere.
The thing with safety is that it is very much in behaviour. I am not at
ease when I travel. When I go to places like the USA, I am amazed and feel
harassed by all the visible guns. It feels like I am in a police series...
I know it has nothing to do with me but I feel as safe there as I did in
Alexandria, Mumbai, Buenos Aires because I am there for one thing only.
Wikimania.

By excluding destinations, we restrict our ability to reach out to places
where our message needs to be heard. That is why I am filled with mixed
feelings about all the attention of safety in "other places". The USA is
another place to me where I feel not safe, where LGBT rights are not
guaranteed either.

It is possible to be safe particularly when I concentrate why I am there in
the first place.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 17 October 2016 at 23:39, Ellie Young <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes we are doing a review and I can vouch that issues like this will always
> be a part of the criteria when selecting a venue.  In most of the recent
> Wikimanias the selection committee and WMF have included the security of
> our LGBT community as one of the criteria when considering bids.
>
> Another critical issue that you mention below  when deciding what to do for
> future Wikimanias  is whether the conference in its present form (program,
> location, etc.) is serving the community and WMF.   That is a longer
> conversation that I hope we can continue to have and make some progress in
> the near future.
>
> Ellie
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Pax,
> >
> > My understanding is that WMF is doing a strategic review of Wikimania. If
> > that is correct, considerations like the ones you raise about location
> > could be included in the scope of that review. I'm pinging Ellie with the
> > hope that she can provide information about the status of WMF's thinking
> > about Wikimania, perhaps in a new thread. Wikimania involves significant
> > amounts of time and money, and I am hoping that WMF will develop ways to
> > align Wikimania with WMF and community strategic goals.
> >
> > Pine
> >
> > On Oct 16, 2016 08:10, "Pax Ahimsa Gethen" <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
> >> last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and
> Wikipedia.[1]
> >> I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia Weekly on
> >> Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
> >> concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
> >> safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference, but
> also
> >> those living in the host country.
> >>
> >> As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
> >> places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going
> about my
> >> daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by the
> way;
> >> I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me to use
> >> the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind when
> >> planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.
> >>
> >> - Pax aka Funcrunch
> >>
> >> [1] http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-w
> >> ikiconference-north-america/
> >>
> >> [2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/11
> >> 14259788621851/
> >>
> >> --
> >> Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Ellie Young
> Events Manager
> Wikimedia Foundation
> [hidden email]
> c. 510 701 8649
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Vi to
IMHO we should divide criteria into two categories, reflecting two
different kind of issue:

*someone *cannot* partecipate because of a certain issue -> the proposal is
rejected
*someone may not feel comfortable in partecipating -> the proposal is
somehow penalized

In other words, if LGBT people is at risk in Saudi Arabia then Wikimania
cannot be held in Saudi Arabia. If LGBT people might face some difficulties
in North Carolina then North Carolina will lose a certain amount of
preference to -for example- Belgium where LGBT people might be more
comfortable.

I know this might weaken our effort to reach non-Western countries but I
rather support giving anybody the *opportunity* to partecipate.

Vito

2016-10-18 12:42 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:

> Hoi,
> I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe. All the
> specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels problematic
> when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture for me
> is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what it stands
> for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to India to
> South Africa.
>
> They all have their issues but remember what our aim is not for the perfect
> holiday destination. We aim to bring the sum of all knowledge everywhere.
> The thing with safety is that it is very much in behaviour. I am not at
> ease when I travel. When I go to places like the USA, I am amazed and feel
> harassed by all the visible guns. It feels like I am in a police series...
> I know it has nothing to do with me but I feel as safe there as I did in
> Alexandria, Mumbai, Buenos Aires because I am there for one thing only.
> Wikimania.
>
> By excluding destinations, we restrict our ability to reach out to places
> where our message needs to be heard. That is why I am filled with mixed
> feelings about all the attention of safety in "other places". The USA is
> another place to me where I feel not safe, where LGBT rights are not
> guaranteed either.
>
> It is possible to be safe particularly when I concentrate why I am there in
> the first place.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
> On 17 October 2016 at 23:39, Ellie Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Yes we are doing a review and I can vouch that issues like this will
> always
> > be a part of the criteria when selecting a venue.  In most of the recent
> > Wikimanias the selection committee and WMF have included the security of
> > our LGBT community as one of the criteria when considering bids.
> >
> > Another critical issue that you mention below  when deciding what to do
> for
> > future Wikimanias  is whether the conference in its present form
> (program,
> > location, etc.) is serving the community and WMF.   That is a longer
> > conversation that I hope we can continue to have and make some progress
> in
> > the near future.
> >
> > Ellie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Pax,
> > >
> > > My understanding is that WMF is doing a strategic review of Wikimania.
> If
> > > that is correct, considerations like the ones you raise about location
> > > could be included in the scope of that review. I'm pinging Ellie with
> the
> > > hope that she can provide information about the status of WMF's
> thinking
> > > about Wikimania, perhaps in a new thread. Wikimania involves
> significant
> > > amounts of time and money, and I am hoping that WMF will develop ways
> to
> > > align Wikimania with WMF and community strategic goals.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > >
> > > On Oct 16, 2016 08:10, "Pax Ahimsa Gethen" <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
> > >> last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and
> > Wikipedia.[1]
> > >> I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia Weekly
> on
> > >> Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
> > >> concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
> > >> safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference, but
> > also
> > >> those living in the host country.
> > >>
> > >> As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
> > >> places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going
> > about my
> > >> daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by the
> > way;
> > >> I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me to
> use
> > >> the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind
> when
> > >> planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.
> > >>
> > >> - Pax aka Funcrunch
> > >>
> > >> [1] http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-w
> > >> ikiconference-north-america/
> > >>
> > >> [2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/11
> > >> 14259788621851/
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> > >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ellie Young
> > Events Manager
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > [hidden email]
> > c. 510 701 8649
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Fæ
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
Gerard, could you provide some tangible examples of how other safety
aspects of Wikimania would be compromised if there is any specific
attention paid to the safety of LGBT+ Wikimedians? I cannot imagine
how such a thing could be true.

Based on my reading, nobody in this thread has asked for the safety of
LGBT+ attendees to be "prioritized" over other safety aspects. Please
don't make it appear as if they have.

Thanks,
Fae

On 18 October 2016 at 11:42, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hoi,
> I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe. All the
> specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels problematic
> when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture for me
> is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what it stands
> for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to India to
> South Africa.
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
For me safety is to a large extend secondary to what we aim to achieve. Our
primary goal is to improve on our primary goal and it is "sharing in the
sum of all knowledge". It is not for going to the perfect holiday
destination.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 18 October 2016 at 13:56, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Gerard, could you provide some tangible examples of how other safety
> aspects of Wikimania would be compromised if there is any specific
> attention paid to the safety of LGBT+ Wikimedians? I cannot imagine
> how such a thing could be true.
>
> Based on my reading, nobody in this thread has asked for the safety of
> LGBT+ attendees to be "prioritized" over other safety aspects. Please
> don't make it appear as if they have.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On 18 October 2016 at 11:42, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe. All the
> > specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels problematic
> > when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture for me
> > is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what it
> stands
> > for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to India to
> > South Africa.
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Pax Ahimsa Gethen
Gerard, this isn't about "holiday destinations", it's about human rights
and dignity. That's why I emphasized in my original post that I'm
concerned not only about the safety of conference attendees, but also
about those living in the host country. The choice of a venue in a
location with a poor human rights record reflects poorly upon
Wikipedia/Wikimedia and our mission to share knowledge. There's a reason
a number of major companies pulled their events and funding out of North
Carolina after the restrictive restroom laws were passed for example...

- Pax


On 10/18/16 6:26 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:

> Hoi,
> For me safety is to a large extend secondary to what we aim to achieve. Our
> primary goal is to improve on our primary goal and it is "sharing in the
> sum of all knowledge". It is not for going to the perfect holiday
> destination.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> On 18 October 2016 at 13:56, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Gerard, could you provide some tangible examples of how other safety
>> aspects of Wikimania would be compromised if there is any specific
>> attention paid to the safety of LGBT+ Wikimedians? I cannot imagine
>> how such a thing could be true.
>>
>> Based on my reading, nobody in this thread has asked for the safety of
>> LGBT+ attendees to be "prioritized" over other safety aspects. Please
>> don't make it appear as if they have.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Fae
>>
>> On 18 October 2016 at 11:42, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Hoi,
>>> I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe. All the
>>> specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels problematic
>>> when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture for me
>>> is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what it
>> stands
>>> for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to India to
>>> South Africa.
>> --
>> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>>

--
Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Vi to
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
We can share knowledge without meetings, we cannot share knowledge without
our community. If some of our community cannot be safe well...who cares of
meetings then?

Vito

2016-10-18 15:26 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:

> Hoi,
> For me safety is to a large extend secondary to what we aim to achieve. Our
> primary goal is to improve on our primary goal and it is "sharing in the
> sum of all knowledge". It is not for going to the perfect holiday
> destination.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
> On 18 October 2016 at 13:56, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Gerard, could you provide some tangible examples of how other safety
> > aspects of Wikimania would be compromised if there is any specific
> > attention paid to the safety of LGBT+ Wikimedians? I cannot imagine
> > how such a thing could be true.
> >
> > Based on my reading, nobody in this thread has asked for the safety of
> > LGBT+ attendees to be "prioritized" over other safety aspects. Please
> > don't make it appear as if they have.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Fae
> >
> > On 18 October 2016 at 11:42, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > Hoi,
> > > I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe. All
> the
> > > specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels problematic
> > > when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture for
> me
> > > is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what it
> > stands
> > > for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to India to
> > > South Africa.
> > --
> > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Florence Devouard-6
In reply to this post by Pax Ahimsa Gethen
With all due respect Pax... whilst I am fully in agreement with the
concept of selecting a country with the safety of ALL participants in
mind, I totally disagree with the concept of selecting a country based
on "high human records" generally.

We are not serving the part of humanity that has the chance to live in
countries with high human records. We are serving everyone, no matter in
which country they live.

People living in those countries with poor records, already suffer from
poor human rights. Why would we add to that ?

Anthere




Le 18/10/2016 à 16:00, Pax Ahimsa Gethen a écrit :

> Gerard, this isn't about "holiday destinations", it's about human rights
> and dignity. That's why I emphasized in my original post that I'm
> concerned not only about the safety of conference attendees, but also
> about those living in the host country. The choice of a venue in a
> location with a poor human rights record reflects poorly upon
> Wikipedia/Wikimedia and our mission to share knowledge. There's a reason
> a number of major companies pulled their events and funding out of North
> Carolina after the restrictive restroom laws were passed for example...
>
> - Pax
>
>
> On 10/18/16 6:26 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>> Hoi,
>> For me safety is to a large extend secondary to what we aim to
>> achieve. Our
>> primary goal is to improve on our primary goal and it is "sharing in the
>> sum of all knowledge". It is not for going to the perfect holiday
>> destination.
>> Thanks,
>>       GerardM
>>
>> On 18 October 2016 at 13:56, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Gerard, could you provide some tangible examples of how other safety
>>> aspects of Wikimania would be compromised if there is any specific
>>> attention paid to the safety of LGBT+ Wikimedians? I cannot imagine
>>> how such a thing could be true.
>>>
>>> Based on my reading, nobody in this thread has asked for the safety of
>>> LGBT+ attendees to be "prioritized" over other safety aspects. Please
>>> don't make it appear as if they have.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Fae
>>>
>>> On 18 October 2016 at 11:42, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hoi,
>>>> I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe. All
>>>> the
>>>> specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels problematic
>>>> when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture
>>>> for me
>>>> is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what it
>>> stands
>>>> for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to India to
>>>> South Africa.
>>> --
>>> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>>>
>



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Ellie Young
In reply to this post by Pine W
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Ellie.
>
> On the topic of event safety, I am wondering if there is a standard
> checklist that WMF uses when narrowing potential sites for Wikimanias and
> if you could make that checklist public. Perhaps it is public already but I
> don't know where to find it.
>

​This is what we were using for the past few Wikimanias.    It is public.
I reference it in the recent posting as well.  I will be updating this
since we are no longer doing the competitive bidding process but it does
have a lot of information and is pretty accurate.​


https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_judging_criteria

Regarding Wikimania goals and strategy, I'd like to suggest that WMF take a
> look at what our friends in WMDE have done with the Wikimedia Conference to
> increase focus on specific topics and to make conference outcomes a bit
> clearer and more measurable.
>

​WMF funds with a grant this conference and works closely with WMDE.
There was a proposal a couple of years ago to have a paid program and
events coordinator who would provide continuity year to year and liaise
with other conferences/groups.  There is also paid meeting planner as well
as staff support from the WMDE itself.

> I also like that WMDE devotes significant staff support to the conference,
> which decreases the burden on volunteers; I would like to see a similar
> shift for Wikimania so the event is less dependent on heroic efforts from
> volunteers. I realize that there is financial cost involved with increased
> staff support for conferences; this is one area in which increased
> expenditure makes sense to me.
>

​We started that in London and Mexico City Wikimania with my position and a
paid local coordinator (Esino Lario was an exception where the local team
received a grant and handled pretty much everything.)  ​


> I look forward to hearing about further developments.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pine
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


--
Ellie Young
Events Manager
Wikimedia Foundation
[hidden email]
c. 510 701 8649
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