[Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
43 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Andrew Lih
Natasha, great points on all these.

Just wanted to add that it’s not just women who could use the help on child
care in order to attend conferences. It’s just good policy all around.

One of the downsides of moving Wikimania every year, with a brand new team
on each iteration, is that we cannot optimize and improve Wikimania with
these types of ideas. We wind up putting all the energies into the basics,
because each year is like phoenix reborn from the ashes. This may be a good
time to reflect on the benefit of repeat locations, simply because we would
be able to improve upon previous experiences, and not just struggle to
replicate them.

For example, one thing we almost always pledge to do is more public
outreach at Wikimanias, but this is rarely done with any real resources
because it’s the first thing dropped when time and budgets get tight.

-Andrew


On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 2:03 AM, Natacha Rault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Making sure that safety requirements are met sure is important, and in
> view of the previous discussions there is a balance to find between opening
> to new geographic communities and securing our own community.
> I would like to point out somerhing more: concerning the gender gap, many
> women I came to know last year are not able to attend such events for the
> following reason:
>
> - no children / teenager activities proposed from the beginning to people
> outside the organizing team
> - no baby sitting fees reimbursed for parents attending
> - no reduction or scholarships for single parents (wether LGBT man or
> woman alltogether)
> - the cost if moving a whole family (plane and train ticket) is not
> adressed for family members
> - late answers to such questions  make it impossible to organize (one does
> need to think ahead to organize a childcare at home or elsewhere)
>
> I think these issues are also important and need to be discussed if we
> want to reduce the gender gap.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Nattes à chat
>
> > Le 9 nov. 2016 à 17:43, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
> >
> > Hoi,
> > What is the point. When not even the USA is "safe", we have to be
> > realistic. Wikimania is about propaganda for what we do. We have to
> travel
> > and selecting a place is not about you, it is about them. It is about the
> > people we aim to serve.
> >
> > I made my point before, it did not get any attention then and my argument
> > now is that nothing changed. It is only the perception of the USA that
> has
> > been dented by an unfortunate "democratic" choice by last night's
> election.
> > Thanks,
> >     GerardM
> >
> > On 9 November 2016 at 17:27, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
> [hidden email]
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Gerard, as a queer black trans person who feels unsafe even in San
> >> Francisco (and has felt that way for years), I would really appreciate
> you
> >> not pushing last night's election results in my face to make a point.
> >>
> >> - Pax
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 11/9/16 8:24 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hoi,
> >>> Do you blame me for not feeling safe going to the USA?
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>     GerardM
> >>>
> >>> On 8 November 2016 at 11:08, Gerard Meijssen <
> [hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hoi,
> >>>> Not going to North Corolina is absolutely fine with me. We do not gain
> >>>> anything by going there arguably not to any state in the United
> States.
> >>>> What Wikimania is, is a platform for propaganda for what we have,
> what we
> >>>> do, who we are and how we do what we do. In many countries Wikipedia
> is
> >>>> not
> >>>> the house hold name it is in the USA.
> >>>>
> >>>> Wikimania is not aimed for the English Wikipedia, it is aimed to
> further
> >>>> our movement. Not going to places is similar to saying that those
> other
> >>>> people, speaking other languages, with an other culture do not matter.
> >>>> They
> >>>> do.
> >>>>
> >>>> We should go to Russia, India, South Africa, China. The people of
> those
> >>>> countries should matter to us, the people we could share the sum of
> all
> >>>> knowledge with.
> >>>>
> >>>> THAT is what we do, sharing the sum of all knowledge.
> >>>>
> >>>> When the choice of the venue is only about being safe, we should not
> go
> >>>> to
> >>>> the USA (I do not feel safe there), we should go to Germany, to
> >>>> Switzerland
> >>>> and move the office as well. It is not likely to happen, not what I
> want
> >>>> either.
> >>>>
> >>>> If there is one thing about LBGT, it is that that struggle is still
> being
> >>>> fought. Hiding and keeping away does not work. It does not help the
> LBGT
> >>>> community. More importantly in this context it does not help the
> >>>> Wikimedia
> >>>> community. For the latter it is vital to make our message heard.We
> aim to
> >>>> share the sum of all knowledge and many people have not even heard of
> us.
> >>>> Thank,
> >>>>      GerardM
> >>>>
> >>>> On 18 October 2016 at 16:00, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
> >>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Gerard, this isn't about "holiday destinations", it's about human
> rights
> >>>>> and dignity. That's why I emphasized in my original post that I'm
> >>>>> concerned
> >>>>> not only about the safety of conference attendees, but also about
> those
> >>>>> living in the host country. The choice of a venue in a location with
> a
> >>>>> poor
> >>>>> human rights record reflects poorly upon Wikipedia/Wikimedia and our
> >>>>> mission to share knowledge. There's a reason a number of major
> companies
> >>>>> pulled their events and funding out of North Carolina after the
> >>>>> restrictive
> >>>>> restroom laws were passed for example...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Pax
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 10/18/16 6:26 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hoi,
> >>>>>> For me safety is to a large extend secondary to what we aim to
> achieve.
> >>>>>> Our
> >>>>>> primary goal is to improve on our primary goal and it is "sharing in
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> sum of all knowledge". It is not for going to the perfect holiday
> >>>>>> destination.
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>      GerardM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 18 October 2016 at 13:56, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Gerard, could you provide some tangible examples of how other safety
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> aspects of Wikimania would be compromised if there is any specific
> >>>>>>> attention paid to the safety of LGBT+ Wikimedians? I cannot imagine
> >>>>>>> how such a thing could be true.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Based on my reading, nobody in this thread has asked for the
> safety of
> >>>>>>> LGBT+ attendees to be "prioritized" over other safety aspects.
> Please
> >>>>>>> don't make it appear as if they have.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> Fae
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 18 October 2016 at 11:42, Gerard Meijssen <
> >>>>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hoi,
> >>>>>>>> I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe.
> All
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels
> >>>>>>>> problematic
> >>>>>>>> when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture
> >>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>> me
> >>>>>>>> is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what
> it
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> stands
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to
> India
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> South Africa.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >> --
> >> Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Marc-Andre
FWIW, there will be daycare at Montreal, for toddlers.  I expect that
travel expenses are more likely to make this service of use mostly to
local attendees, however, since traveling with kids is the bigger
impediment.

--Marc


On 2016-11-11 09:30 AM, Andrew Lih wrote:
> Just wanted to add that it’s not just women who could use the help on child
> care in order to attend conferences. It’s just good policy all around.


_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

Natacha Rault
Dear Marc, this is exactly the problem: focusing only on toddlers and on on-site solutions. when what parent need is focusing on the general problem of childcare wether on the site of wikimania or not.

-Natacha

> Le 11 nov. 2016 à 15:56, Marc-Andre <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> FWIW, there will be daycare at Montreal, for toddlers.  I expect that travel expenses are more likely to make this service of use mostly to local attendees, however, since traveling with kids is the bigger impediment.
>
> --Marc
>
>
> On 2016-11-11 09:30 AM, Andrew Lih wrote:
>> Just wanted to add that it’s not just women who could use the help on child
>> care in order to attend conferences. It’s just good policy all around.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
123