[Wikimedia-l] Looking back at the London Conference

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Looking back at the London Conference

Markus Glaser-2
Hi Charles,

from the feedback we had about the WCA, IMHO we need to consider two
different issues:
* we are criticised for focussing on structures too much. In London, as
you can see in the protocol [1], we discussed several options including
the one about an executive board, but decided to let form follow
function and leave any structural debate for now. Of course, I cannot
stop you from doing so, but I will try and focus my time on doing actual
work until Milan.
* be it justified or not, several key players in the Wikimedia universe
do have issues with Fae being Chair. Personally, I value Fae's work a
lot. But we need to address the concerns of the world outside the
Chapters unless we keep thinking of the WCA as a lonely (non-)player
without any relation to the other entities in this Wikimedia world. I
respect Fae's decision to react to the current situation and bring
forward the election. Whoever will be (re-)elected, we will have a Chair
with a lot more support then.

I quite like your initiative in creating this survey, thanks for this.
At the same time, may I ask you if you coordinated this with Ziko and
Michail, who volunteered to do some research along the same lines as you
suggested [2]? I should think it makes sense to bundle similar
initiatives. What I'd like to avoid is that every WCA council member
starts rushing into their own projects.

Best,
Markus

[1]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Meetings/2013-07#Reflective_discussion
[2]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Meetings/2013-07#Action_teams

> Anyway I was,  and I'm still  oppose to anticipated election.  Since the beginning of the discussion about WCA bylaws , the question of "do we need a chair and a vice chair" hasn't been fixed, and I'm sorry to tell that provoking new election before fixing this point is just bad.
>
>
> Jan-Bart in a previous mail made the good comment that we should stop discussing about membership and voting, but the question here is really about what is the WCA.
> Several chapters ask for an Iberocoop model, it means that they don't want a chair and a vice chair. The people present in London can argue that at least some position should exist to assure that coordination is done, but the 7 present in London cannot decide for 14 others.  By deciding to anticipate the election of the chair it's just what you have done.
>
> In your answer you talk about WMF board asking directly or indirectly for your replacement. This argument has been read in the personal comment of board member, and all chapter are aware of that and will take it into account, or not, when the time will come. But we don't need your resignation now whereas the new election is already planned in just two month, the few week of difference will not affect the WCA. Also if you are personally disputed by people outside the chapter, the vice chair is at least equally disputed among the chapter, what's the most important?
>
>
> Finally I will point that WCA is representing 21 chapters for now, and most of those chapters are really tired of discussion in english on meta, asking them to have a "campaign" and a vote online whereas we can have a live vote in Milano is just another way to say "we don't care of you".
>
>
> WCA is needed, but is not needed tomorrow , it's needed when all chapter will participate and make it grow, and we won't have that unless we find the seed action that will make all chapter willing to support is growth, and sorry this is not this list http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Meetings/2013-07#Session_3:_Actions.2C_engagement that will change the actual dynamic.
>
> I'm not a magician, I don't have a ready to use solution, but what I'm sure, is that the very first step should be an open discussion between chapters about what is the WCA is, and for that purpose I created this page, to build a survey among chapters: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/survey_march_2013
>
> I invite all interested people to participate to the creation of this survey. In a second time the same type of survey should be open to the whole movement, but because the WCA is the CHAPTER ASSOCIATION, I think it's reasonable to first know what the first concerned people think.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Charles
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> ___________________________________________________________
> I use this email for mailing list only.
>
> Charles ANDRES, Chairman
> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> www.wikimedia.ch
> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
>
> Le 20 févr. 2013 à 09:25, Fae <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> On 20 February 2013 07:57, Charles Andrès <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hello Ziko,
>>>
>>> Because you want to hear:
>>>
>>> 1)Their is no census within the chapter whether we still want a deputy chair position
>> It's better for us to focus on the actions we are taking for the next
>> 3 months. We decided to defer discussion about changing roles and
>> considering a board, or changing the titles we currently use. Any
>> member of the Council is welcome to draft a resolution or discuss
>> alternatives, but this will draw the oxygen away from being seen to
>> make progress on solid outcomes, rather than internal affairs.
>>
>>> 2)if we keep a chair and a deputy chair, it has always been planned that this position should be open to vote at the next WCA meeting
>> It was my decision, made after private discussions with Ting and SJ,
>> apparently in response Jimmy Wales raising this for the WMF board's
>> attention immediately after my English Wikipedia ban and before the
>> end of the summer conference in Washington DC, to ensure that we would
>> have an election this spring for the Chair position in a more formal
>> and structured way. Though our vote was valid, I was never very happy
>> at being elected without competition or much discussion. For that
>> reason I was not prepared to just stay in position for 2 years. You
>> will recall that for the Deputy Chair position, there was a
>> competition and discussion so I believe this had a firmer sense of
>> democracy.
>>
>>> 3) 7 council member connote decide on their own of keeping in place the deputy chair!!
>> Similarly, this was no a decision that was ever tabled or considered necessary.
>>
>>> 4)The WCA do not need continuity, since ten month we haven't been able to provide something real , I don't see why we should continue this way
>> We chose to radically re-frame our plans. We have done this in a way
>> that does not require resolutions or complex bureaucracy to move
>> forward. I don't see how asking Ziko to go through an election process
>> now, helps demonstrate that we are taking an external focus. The
>> election process for Chair is a different matter, it was always
>> planned for March and I have chosen to bring this forward based on the
>> continued private approaches to the Council from 5 WMF trustees since
>> my election, who were not happy with the WCA having me as our elected
>> Chair, though the WMF itself has no public position on this matter.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Fae
>> --
>> Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) [hidden email]
>> Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA
>> Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


--
Markus Glaser
WCA Council Member (WMDE)
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Looking back at the London Conference

Manuel Schneider-3
In reply to this post by Fæ


Am 20.02.2013 14:03, schrieb Fae:

> On 20 February 2013 08:59, Christophe Henner
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Why do we need two "announce" mailing lists? Can't we all use
>> wikimedia-announce ?
>
> I don't really care much about how it works, just that it does. Manuel
> Schneider took an action at the weekend to advise on points of
> contact, and set up the system where needed. He is wonderfully
> knowledgeable about our sites and systems, and has the technical skill
> to sort this out.

I have to admit that when we discussed the wca-announce list and I have
set it up, that I didn't know about the wikimedia-announce list.

I think I have to agree that one announce list is enough. As we haven't
started using the wca-announce yet I see no problem in agreeing that we
use wikimedia-announce-l instead.


/Manuel
--
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Looking back at the London Conference

Markus Glaser-2
Am 21.02.2013 15:57, schrieb Manuel Schneider:
> I think I have to agree that one announce list is enough. As we haven't
> started using the wca-announce yet I see no problem in agreeing that we
> use wikimedia-announce-l instead.
>
>
> /Manuel
+1

We can use a [wca] tag in the subject line as you suggested to raise wca
specific awareness.

Cheers,
Markus

--
Markus Glaser
WCA Council Member (WMDE)
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Looking back at the London Conference

Ziko van Dijk-2
Hi, Michal and I will soon come up with a general question to the
movement, in the frame of the action team "research". Maybe today or
tomorrow.
Kind regards
Ziko

2013/2/21 Markus Glaser <[hidden email]>:

> Am 21.02.2013 15:57, schrieb Manuel Schneider:
>
>> I think I have to agree that one announce list is enough. As we haven't
>> started using the wca-announce yet I see no problem in agreeing that we
>> use wikimedia-announce-l instead.
>>
>>
>> /Manuel
>
> +1
>
> We can use a [wca] tag in the subject line as you suggested to raise wca
> specific awareness.
>
> Cheers,
> Markus
>
>
> --
> Markus Glaser
> WCA Council Member (WMDE)
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l



--

-----------------------------------------------------------
Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter
http://wmnederland.nl/

Wikimedia Nederland
Postbus 167
3500 AD Utrecht
-----------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Looking back at the London Conference

Charles Andrès-2
HI Ziko,

Could you give us more information about this action team?, and especially its composition  because there is few information here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Research , no more on the minute of your meeting in London, and I don't remind any public call for joining this team?

Sorry to use Wikimedia-l for this question, but if we use the chapters mailing we are criticize, so here the transparency :-)


Charles



___________________________________________________________


Charles ANDRES, Chairman
"Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
www.wikimedia.ch
Skype: charles.andres.wmch
IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch

Le 21 févr. 2013 à 16:25, Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Hi, Michal and I will soon come up with a general question to the
> movement, in the frame of the action team "research". Maybe today or
> tomorrow.
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
> 2013/2/21 Markus Glaser <[hidden email]>:
>> Am 21.02.2013 15:57, schrieb Manuel Schneider:
>>
>>> I think I have to agree that one announce list is enough. As we haven't
>>> started using the wca-announce yet I see no problem in agreeing that we
>>> use wikimedia-announce-l instead.
>>>
>>>
>>> /Manuel
>>
>> +1
>>
>> We can use a [wca] tag in the subject line as you suggested to raise wca
>> specific awareness.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Markus
>>
>>
>> --
>> Markus Glaser
>> WCA Council Member (WMDE)
>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
>
>
> --
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter
> http://wmnederland.nl/
>
> Wikimedia Nederland
> Postbus 167
> 3500 AD Utrecht
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Looking back at the London Conference

Ziko van Dijk-2
Pacience.

2013/2/21 Charles Andrès <[hidden email]>:

> HI Ziko,
>
> Could you give us more information about this action team?, and especially its composition  because there is few information here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Research , no more on the minute of your meeting in London, and I don't remind any public call for joining this team?
>
> Sorry to use Wikimedia-l for this question, but if we use the chapters mailing we are criticize, so here the transparency :-)
>
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
>
>
> Charles ANDRES, Chairman
> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> www.wikimedia.ch
> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
>
> Le 21 févr. 2013 à 16:25, Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> Hi, Michal and I will soon come up with a general question to the
>> movement, in the frame of the action team "research". Maybe today or
>> tomorrow.
>> Kind regards
>> Ziko
>>
>> 2013/2/21 Markus Glaser <[hidden email]>:
>>> Am 21.02.2013 15:57, schrieb Manuel Schneider:
>>>
>>>> I think I have to agree that one announce list is enough. As we haven't
>>>> started using the wca-announce yet I see no problem in agreeing that we
>>>> use wikimedia-announce-l instead.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> /Manuel
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> We can use a [wca] tag in the subject line as you suggested to raise wca
>>> specific awareness.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Markus
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Markus Glaser
>>> WCA Council Member (WMDE)
>>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
>> dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter
>> http://wmnederland.nl/
>>
>> Wikimedia Nederland
>> Postbus 167
>> 3500 AD Utrecht
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l



--

-----------------------------------------------------------
Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter
http://wmnederland.nl/

Wikimedia Nederland
Postbus 167
3500 AD Utrecht
-----------------------------------------------------------

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