[Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

Peter Coombe-2
Hi Lodewijk,

I'm not sure exactly what, if any, other sites this new privacy policy
might cover. However I can confirm that the WMF fundraising infrastructure
remains under the existing Donor Privacy Policy:
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Donor_privacy_policy/en

Thanks,
Peter

--
Peter Coombe
Fundraising Production Manager
Wikimedia Foundation

On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 at 20:00, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I can imagine that this alternate privacy policy is actually covering a
> wider range of sites that are non-wiki, such as the fundraising
> infrastructure and the survey websites, voting websites etc. Rather than
> having a different privacy policy for each of those instances, I think it
> is actually clearer to have two policies: one for the content delivery (the
> 'wikis') that have practically zero cookie tracking to the best of my
> knowledge and one for the other websites that may require other methods to
> be functional.
>
> As a sidenote, I think it actually could be a totally fair statement to say
> that wikimediafoundation.org is, relative to the content projects, not a
> 'major site' of the WMF. It is supporting infrastructure at best. (no
> offense :) )
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 7:23 AM Chico Venancio <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Indeed an special watered down privacy policy is strange. It is worth
> > noting that the standard privacy policy[1] does not state that it only
> > applies to "wiki based websites" but instead lists what it does and does
> > not cover[2], the only interpretation that allows a separate policy for
> the
> > new website weirdly leaves* https://wikimediafoundation.org/
> > <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> as being defined to not be a major
> site
> > of WMF. *
> >
> > Irregardless of possible poor wording of both privacy policies, I find it
> > strange that the main website for WMF has a tracking pixel and forces
> > visitors to provide users' personal information (as defined by either
> > privacy policies) to Google and Wordpress.com.
> >
> > Perhaps this is something WMF could revisit?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Chico Venancio
> >
> > [1]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
> > [2]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy#coverage
> >
> >
> >
> > 2018-08-06 2:06 GMT-03:00 Yair Rand <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > There are several more issues I've noticed with the new website:
> > > * According to the notice at the bottom, the company "Automattic Inc."
> is
> > > receiving all sorts of data about all visitors to the site, including
> > > location information, cookie data, data from pixel tags/web beacons
> used
> > to
> > > track visitors and target ads on other WordPress sites, and other data.
> > > * The "non-wiki privacy policy of the Wikimedia Foundation" linked at
> the
> > > bottom is different than the regular privacy policy. Why is this?
> > > * Much of the content is essentially English-Wikipedia-only. "Visit The
> > > Teahouse for a friendly place to learn about editing" Most Wikipedias
> > don't
> > > have teahouses or equivalents.
> > > * In "Wikimedia projects": "Wikipedia - All the world's knowledge". See
> > > [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of
> > information]].
> > > * "Working with partners like Google, the Metropolitan Museum of Art,
> and
> > > UNESCO, Wikimedia...". I don't think most Wikimedians are okay with the
> > WMF
> > > describing Google as among its partners. Nor the Met or UNESCO, for
> that
> > > matter.
> > > * In the "Technology" section, there's a paragraph devoted to bragging
> > > about how NASA has an internal Mediawiki wiki. I don't think that
> belongs
> > > there.
> > > * The actual Wikimedia Foundation Mission is kind of buried deep in the
> > > site. The Mission is the definitive version of what the WMF is supposed
> > to
> > > be doing, and I really think it should be highlighted somewhere in a
> more
> > > prominent position.
> > >
> > > "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage
> people
> > > around the world to collect and develop educational content under a
> free
> > > license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and
> > > globally.
> > >
> > > In collaboration with a network of chapters, the Wikimedia Foundation
> > > provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework
> for
> > > the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other
> > > endeavors which serve this mission. The Foundation will make and keep
> > > useful information from its projects available on the Internet free of
> > > charge, in perpetuity."
> > >
> > > -- Yair Rand
> > >
> > > 2018-08-03 17:12 GMT-04:00 Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your
> > > > browser's cache):  https://wikimediafoundation.org/
> > > >
> > > > The home page currently says:
> > > >
> > > >    " Everything on a Wikimedia site is available as Creative Commons
> > > > material. "
> > > >
> > > > That is not true. Material includes:
> > > >
> > > > * PD content (copyright expires; US government, etc)
> > > > * Fair-use copyright material.
> > > >
> > > > In the latter case, suggesting otherwise could be harmful to our
> users.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page
> > > > and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not
> > > > be available under a free license in the United States because it is
> > > > based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright
> > > > under U.S. law."
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Andy Mabbett
> > > > @pigsonthewing
> > > > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

Shabab Mustafa
I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site properly.
What kind of visitor tracking are we using in this site? And if someone is
not willing to be tracked, this site should load fully without breaking the
styling.
---
Shabab Mustafa
T. @tarunno
S. shabab.mustafa
W. https://shabab.me


On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 8:13 PM Peter Coombe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Lodewijk,
>
> I'm not sure exactly what, if any, other sites this new privacy policy
> might cover. However I can confirm that the WMF fundraising infrastructure
> remains under the existing Donor Privacy Policy:
> https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Donor_privacy_policy/en
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter Coombe
> Fundraising Production Manager
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 at 20:00, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I can imagine that this alternate privacy policy is actually covering a
> > wider range of sites that are non-wiki, such as the fundraising
> > infrastructure and the survey websites, voting websites etc. Rather than
> > having a different privacy policy for each of those instances, I think it
> > is actually clearer to have two policies: one for the content delivery
> (the
> > 'wikis') that have practically zero cookie tracking to the best of my
> > knowledge and one for the other websites that may require other methods
> to
> > be functional.
> >
> > As a sidenote, I think it actually could be a totally fair statement to
> say
> > that wikimediafoundation.org is, relative to the content projects, not a
> > 'major site' of the WMF. It is supporting infrastructure at best. (no
> > offense :) )
> >
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 7:23 AM Chico Venancio <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Indeed an special watered down privacy policy is strange. It is worth
> > > noting that the standard privacy policy[1] does not state that it only
> > > applies to "wiki based websites" but instead lists what it does and
> does
> > > not cover[2], the only interpretation that allows a separate policy for
> > the
> > > new website weirdly leaves* https://wikimediafoundation.org/
> > > <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> as being defined to not be a major
> > site
> > > of WMF. *
> > >
> > > Irregardless of possible poor wording of both privacy policies, I find
> it
> > > strange that the main website for WMF has a tracking pixel and forces
> > > visitors to provide users' personal information (as defined by either
> > > privacy policies) to Google and Wordpress.com.
> > >
> > > Perhaps this is something WMF could revisit?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Chico Venancio
> > >
> > > [1]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
> > > [2]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy#coverage
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2018-08-06 2:06 GMT-03:00 Yair Rand <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > There are several more issues I've noticed with the new website:
> > > > * According to the notice at the bottom, the company "Automattic
> Inc."
> > is
> > > > receiving all sorts of data about all visitors to the site, including
> > > > location information, cookie data, data from pixel tags/web beacons
> > used
> > > to
> > > > track visitors and target ads on other WordPress sites, and other
> data.
> > > > * The "non-wiki privacy policy of the Wikimedia Foundation" linked at
> > the
> > > > bottom is different than the regular privacy policy. Why is this?
> > > > * Much of the content is essentially English-Wikipedia-only. "Visit
> The
> > > > Teahouse for a friendly place to learn about editing" Most Wikipedias
> > > don't
> > > > have teahouses or equivalents.
> > > > * In "Wikimedia projects": "Wikipedia - All the world's knowledge".
> See
> > > > [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of
> > > information]].
> > > > * "Working with partners like Google, the Metropolitan Museum of Art,
> > and
> > > > UNESCO, Wikimedia...". I don't think most Wikimedians are okay with
> the
> > > WMF
> > > > describing Google as among its partners. Nor the Met or UNESCO, for
> > that
> > > > matter.
> > > > * In the "Technology" section, there's a paragraph devoted to
> bragging
> > > > about how NASA has an internal Mediawiki wiki. I don't think that
> > belongs
> > > > there.
> > > > * The actual Wikimedia Foundation Mission is kind of buried deep in
> the
> > > > site. The Mission is the definitive version of what the WMF is
> supposed
> > > to
> > > > be doing, and I really think it should be highlighted somewhere in a
> > more
> > > > prominent position.
> > > >
> > > > "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage
> > people
> > > > around the world to collect and develop educational content under a
> > free
> > > > license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively
> and
> > > > globally.
> > > >
> > > > In collaboration with a network of chapters, the Wikimedia Foundation
> > > > provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework
> > for
> > > > the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other
> > > > endeavors which serve this mission. The Foundation will make and keep
> > > > useful information from its projects available on the Internet free
> of
> > > > charge, in perpetuity."
> > > >
> > > > -- Yair Rand
> > > >
> > > > 2018-08-03 17:12 GMT-04:00 Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]>:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear
> your
> > > > > browser's cache):  https://wikimediafoundation.org/
> > > > >
> > > > > The home page currently says:
> > > > >
> > > > >    " Everything on a Wikimedia site is available as Creative
> Commons
> > > > > material. "
> > > > >
> > > > > That is not true. Material includes:
> > > > >
> > > > > * PD content (copyright expires; US government, etc)
> > > > > * Fair-use copyright material.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the latter case, suggesting otherwise could be harmful to our
> > users.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page
> > > > > and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might
> not
> > > > > be available under a free license in the United States because it
> is
> > > > > based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright
> > > > > under U.S. law."
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Andy Mabbett
> > > > > @pigsonthewing
> > > > > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

Andy Mabbett-2
On 8 August 2018 at 15:23, Shabab Mustafa <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site properly.

This is how it appears for me, in Firefox (current version) with
AdBlockPlus enabled:

   https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Screenshot_-_2018-08-08_-_Wikimedia_Foundation_blog.png

AdBlockPlus is reportedly active on 100 million devices.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

attolippip
It also does not seem to work correctly on mobile (android):

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMFnewsiteonandroidmobile.png

Best regards,
antanana

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 17:47 Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8 August 2018 at 15:23, Shabab Mustafa <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site properly.
>
> This is how it appears for me, in Firefox (current version) with
> AdBlockPlus enabled:
>
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Screenshot_-_2018-08-08_-_Wikimedia_Foundation_blog.png
>
> AdBlockPlus is reportedly active on 100 million devices.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation website has soft launched!

Gregory Varnum-4
Hello,

Thank you to everyone that has sent in productive feedback and bug reports! In the interest of having this conversation more transparently and succinctly, we have answered a number of questions on the talk page of the Meta-Wiki page for this site:  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_website

We will continue to monitor feedback, address bugs during soft launch, and let you know when the translations are in place and we are ready for the full launch of the site.

Again, thank you all for your patience during the soft launch of this site.

-greg

-------
Gregory Varnum
Communications Strategist
Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
[hidden email]
Pronouns: He/Him/His

> On Aug 8, 2018, at 8:28 AM, attolippip <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It also does not seem to work correctly on mobile (android):
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMFnewsiteonandroidmobile.png
>
> Best regards,
> antanana
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 17:47 Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 8 August 2018 at 15:23, Shabab Mustafa <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site properly.
>>
>> This is how it appears for me, in Firefox (current version) with
>> AdBlockPlus enabled:
>>
>>
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Screenshot_-_2018-08-08_-_Wikimedia_Foundation_blog.png
>>
>> AdBlockPlus is reportedly active on 100 million devices.
>>
>> --
>> Andy Mabbett
>> @pigsonthewing
>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation website has soft launched!

Mike Peel
Huh? it’s already been live at https://wikimediafoundation.org/ for the last week or so - that’s not a “soft launch”, that’s a full launch (maybe without the trimmings).

Should I repost the comments/bug reports I sent to wmfcc-l last week more publicly?

Thanks,
Mike

> On 10 Aug 2018, at 22:34, Gregory Varnum <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Thank you to everyone that has sent in productive feedback and bug reports! In the interest of having this conversation more transparently and succinctly, we have answered a number of questions on the talk page of the Meta-Wiki page for this site:  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_website
>
> We will continue to monitor feedback, address bugs during soft launch, and let you know when the translations are in place and we are ready for the full launch of the site.
>
> Again, thank you all for your patience during the soft launch of this site.
>
> -greg
>
> -------
> Gregory Varnum
> Communications Strategist
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> [hidden email]
> Pronouns: He/Him/His
>
>> On Aug 8, 2018, at 8:28 AM, attolippip <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It also does not seem to work correctly on mobile (android):
>>
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMFnewsiteonandroidmobile.png
>>
>> Best regards,
>> antanana
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 17:47 Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8 August 2018 at 15:23, Shabab Mustafa <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site properly.
>>>
>>> This is how it appears for me, in Firefox (current version) with
>>> AdBlockPlus enabled:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Screenshot_-_2018-08-08_-_Wikimedia_Foundation_blog.png
>>>
>>> AdBlockPlus is reportedly active on 100 million devices.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andy Mabbett
>>> @pigsonthewing
>>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation website has soft launched!

Nathan Awrich
Mike, the "soft" part of the launch is that it is available only in
English, has not been heavily promoted and every link and reference
elsewhere has not been transitioned. This info was in Gregory's initial
post about the soft launch on the 1st.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:50 PM Michael Peel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Huh? it’s already been live at https://wikimediafoundation.org/ for the
> last week or so - that’s not a “soft launch”, that’s a full launch (maybe
> without the trimmings).
>
> Should I repost the comments/bug reports I sent to wmfcc-l last week more
> publicly?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> > On 10 Aug 2018, at 22:34, Gregory Varnum <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Thank you to everyone that has sent in productive feedback and bug
> reports! In the interest of having this conversation more transparently and
> succinctly, we have answered a number of questions on the talk page of the
> Meta-Wiki page for this site:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_website
> >
> > We will continue to monitor feedback, address bugs during soft launch,
> and let you know when the translations are in place and we are ready for
> the full launch of the site.
> >
> > Again, thank you all for your patience during the soft launch of this
> site.
> >
> > -greg
> >
> > -------
> > Gregory Varnum
> > Communications Strategist
> > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > [hidden email]
> > Pronouns: He/Him/His
> >
> >> On Aug 8, 2018, at 8:28 AM, attolippip <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> It also does not seem to work correctly on mobile (android):
> >>
> >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMFnewsiteonandroidmobile.png
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> antanana
> >>
> >> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 17:47 Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 8 August 2018 at 15:23, Shabab Mustafa <[hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site
> properly.
> >>>
> >>> This is how it appears for me, in Firefox (current version) with
> >>> AdBlockPlus enabled:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Screenshot_-_2018-08-08_-_Wikimedia_Foundation_blog.png
> >>>
> >>> AdBlockPlus is reportedly active on 100 million devices.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Andy Mabbett
> >>> @pigsonthewing
> >>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation website has soft launched!

Pine W
Greg, thank you for the update. Now would be a good time to correct the
faulty information that's on the main page of the new website in the "Key
Information" section.

I have several more pointed thoughts, but I think that those comments would
further alienate WMF people and you/they would react to my comments by
being defensive instead of improving, so I'm stopping here for the moment.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

Andy Mabbett-2
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett-2
On 3 August 2018 at 22:12, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your browser's cache):  https://wikimediafoundation.org/
>
> The home page currently says:
>
>    " Everything on a Wikimedia site is available as Creative Commons material. "
>
> That is not true. Material includes:
>
> * PD content (copyright expires; US government, etc)
> * Fair-use copyright material.
>
> In the latter case, suggesting otherwise could be harmful to our users.

The text I cited has now been changed to "All text on Wikimedia sites
is available as Creative Commons material".

This does not resolve the issue I raised above; as my first bullet
point applies not only to media files, but also to numerous texts on
Wikimedia sites; not least a large part of Wikisource.

> Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page
> and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not
> be available under a free license in the United States because it is
> based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright
> under U.S. law."

This image is still on the pages I mentioned.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

a b-36
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 5:50 AM, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 3 August 2018 at 22:12, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your
> browser's cache):  https://wikimediafoundation.org/
> >
> > The home page currently says:
> >
> >    " Everything on a Wikimedia site is available as Creative Commons
> material. "
> >
> > That is not true. Material includes:
> >
> > * PD content (copyright expires; US government, etc)
> > * Fair-use copyright material.
> >
> > In the latter case, suggesting otherwise could be harmful to our users.
>
> The text I cited has now been changed to "All text on Wikimedia sites
> is available as Creative Commons material".
>
> This does not resolve the issue I raised above; as my first bullet
> point applies not only to media files, but also to numerous texts on
> Wikimedia sites; not least a large part of Wikisource.
>
> > Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page
> > and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not
> > be available under a free license in the United States because it is
> > based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright
> > under U.S. law."
>
> This image is still on the pages I mentioned.
>

Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking of
issues compared to on the mailing list:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimediafoundation.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation website has soft launched!

a b-36
In reply to this post by Mike Peel
On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Michael Peel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Huh? it’s already been live at https://wikimediafoundation.org/ for the
> last week or so - that’s not a “soft launch”, that’s a full launch (maybe
> without the trimmings).
>
> Should I repost the comments/bug reports I sent to wmfcc-l last week more
> publicly?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>

It would probably be best to file them in phabricator for improved tracking
of the bug reports:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimediafoundation.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

Andy Mabbett-2
In reply to this post by a b-36
On 11 August 2018 at 23:19, a b <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 5:50 AM, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]>
> wrote:

[Two outstanding issues with the new website]

> Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking of
> issues compared to on the mailing list:

Thank you; no.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

WereSpielChequers-2
In reply to this post by Gregory Varnum-4
Editing via a mailing list is clearly not ideal. I was going to add the missing r to “do not add you own bio”, trivial compared to the licensing issue that Andy mentioned, and typical of the minor edits that I do on Wikipedia and other wikis. But there doesn't seem to be an edit button on www.wikimediafoundation.org. I fear it isn’t a proper wiki.  Phabricator may suit some, but in my experience it is not a wiki and definitely not a place that anyone who isn't a programmer would be comfortable returning to.

Can we migrate that site to mediawiki? Or at least in the short term set up an area on Meta for people to propose changes to it?

During the process of fixing the Visual Editor there were project areas setup on Wikipedia for liaison between the Foundation and the community, that worked and bridged some of the gulf between the volunteer community and the Foundation. If the Foundation wants to use phabricator and wordpress to keep a distance between it and the volunteer community it would make sense to maintain such embassies or monitor this list. I hope no one  wants to return to the bad old days of a few years ago when the Foundation appeared to be more responsive to criticism on badsites than from the volunteer community.

~~~~


On 11 August 2018 at 23:19, a b <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 5:50 AM, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]>
> wrote:

[Two outstanding issues with the new website]

> Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking of
> issues compared to on the mailing list:

Thank you; no.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

Andy Mabbett-2
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett-2
On 11 August 2018 at 20:50, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 3 August 2018 at 22:12, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your browser's cache):  https://wikimediafoundation.org/
>>
>> The home page currently says:

> The text I cited has now been changed to "All text on Wikimedia sites
> is available as Creative Commons material".
>
> This does not resolve the issue I raised above; as my first bullet
> point applies not only to media files, but also to numerous texts on
> Wikimedia sites; not least a large part of Wikisource.

This is still the case. When will it be fixed? Will it?

>> Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page
>> and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not
>> be available under a free license in the United States because it is
>> based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright
>> under U.S. law."
>
> This image is still on the pages I mentioned.

And still is; over two weeks after I first pointed it out. No-one at
WMF has even acknowledged my comment.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

Antoine Musso-3
On 21/08/2018 21:01, Andy Mabbett wrote:

>> The text I cited has now been changed to "All text on Wikimedia sites
>> is available as Creative Commons material".
>>
>> This does not resolve the issue I raised above; as my first bullet
>> point applies not only to media files, but also to numerous texts on
>> Wikimedia sites; not least a large part of Wikisource.
> This is still the case. When will it be fixed? Will it?
>
>>> Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page
>>> and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not
>>> be available under a free license in the United States because it is
>>> based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright
>>> under U.S. law."
>> This image is still on the pages I mentioned.
> And still is; over two weeks after I first pointed it out. No-one at
> WMF has even acknowledged my comment.

Hello,

As several people pointed out, the issues should be reported on
Phabricator. As "a b" stated on August 12th:

>
> Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking of
> issues compared to on the mailing list:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimediafoundation.org

To which you kindly replied:

> Thank you; no.

So your concerns will be acknowledged once they make their way to
Phabricator. You can login there with your wiki account.

Until you do so, your concerns will stay under the radar on this list.


--
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

Jane Darnell
Wow. Just...wow.

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 10:24 AM Antoine Musso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 21/08/2018 21:01, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> >> The text I cited has now been changed to "All text on Wikimedia sites
> >> is available as Creative Commons material".
> >>
> >> This does not resolve the issue I raised above; as my first bullet
> >> point applies not only to media files, but also to numerous texts on
> >> Wikimedia sites; not least a large part of Wikisource.
> > This is still the case. When will it be fixed? Will it?
> >
> >>> Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page
> >>> and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not
> >>> be available under a free license in the United States because it is
> >>> based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright
> >>> under U.S. law."
> >> This image is still on the pages I mentioned.
> > And still is; over two weeks after I first pointed it out. No-one at
> > WMF has even acknowledged my comment.
>
> Hello,
>
> As several people pointed out, the issues should be reported on
> Phabricator. As "a b" stated on August 12th:
>
> >
> > Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking
> of
> > issues compared to on the mailing list:
> >
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimediafoundation.org
>
> To which you kindly replied:
>
> > Thank you; no.
>
> So your concerns will be acknowledged once they make their way to
> Phabricator. You can login there with your wiki account.
>
> Until you do so, your concerns will stay under the radar on this list.
>
>
> --
> Antoine "hashar" Musso
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

Fæ
Agree with Jane. Wow. For those unaware, Antoine Musso is a WMF
Software developer, which you would never know based on their email
signature.

Hey fellow long-term unpaid volunteers. Remember that the WMF was
created by us not that long ago, and had a single mission, to support
us volunteers and our shared open knowledge mission?

A drip, drip of "communication failures", along with the core
Americanocentic obsession with hearing praise and ignoring critics
must change, or we will all eventually take the hint that we are
neither wanted or needed here, and find or establish a new and more
rewarding place to have fun. Do we really need a revolution to flip
the WMF upside down, or is there a better way to speedily reshape the
WMF so it regains its focus on the outside world rather than the
brilliance of its employees?

Fae

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 09:55, Jane Darnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Wow. Just...wow.
>
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 10:24 AM Antoine Musso <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 21/08/2018 21:01, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> > >> The text I cited has now been changed to "All text on Wikimedia sites
> > >> is available as Creative Commons material".
> > >>
> > >> This does not resolve the issue I raised above; as my first bullet
> > >> point applies not only to media files, but also to numerous texts on
> > >> Wikimedia sites; not least a large part of Wikisource.
> > > This is still the case. When will it be fixed? Will it?
> > >
> > >>> Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page
> > >>> and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not
> > >>> be available under a free license in the United States because it is
> > >>> based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright
> > >>> under U.S. law."
> > >> This image is still on the pages I mentioned.
> > > And still is; over two weeks after I first pointed it out. No-one at
> > > WMF has even acknowledged my comment.
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > As several people pointed out, the issues should be reported on
> > Phabricator. As "a b" stated on August 12th:
> >
> > >
> > > Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking
> > of
> > > issues compared to on the mailing list:
> > >
> > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimediafoundation.org
> >
> > To which you kindly replied:
> >
> > > Thank you; no.
> >
> > So your concerns will be acknowledged once they make their way to
> > Phabricator. You can login there with your wiki account.
> >
> > Until you do so, your concerns will stay under the radar on this list.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Antoine "hashar" Musso
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

Andy Mabbett-2
In reply to this post by Antoine Musso-3
On 22 August 2018 at 09:24, Antoine Musso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 21/08/2018 21:01, Andy Mabbett wrote:

>>> The text I cited has now been changed to "All text on Wikimedia sites
>>> is available as Creative Commons material".
>>>
>>> This does not resolve the issue I raised above; as my first bullet
>>> point applies not only to media files, but also to numerous texts on
>>> Wikimedia sites; not least a large part of Wikisource.
>> This is still the case. When will it be fixed? Will it?
>>
>>>> Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page
>>>> and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not
>>>> be available under a free license in the United States because it is
>>>> based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright
>>>> under U.S. law."
>>> This image is still on the pages I mentioned.
>> And still is; over two weeks after I first pointed it out. No-one at
>> WMF has even acknowledged my comment.

> As several people pointed out, the issues should be reported on
> Phabricator. As "a b" stated on August 12th:

If "several people" pointed this out, they did not do so on this list.
perhaps you can provide a link to where they did so.

Had I seen anyone point that out I would have commented then, as I do
now, that that is not an acceptable position to take, for reasons
which I'll leave as an exercise for the reader.

I'll also note that a a member of WMF staff, using their wikimedia.org
email address, has thanked people, in this thread, for feedback given
/in this thread/.

>> Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking of
>> issues compared to on the mailing list:
>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimediafoundation.org

You've quoted that unattributed, in manner (two chevrons) that makes
it appear to have been said my me. In fact, it was said by a b
<[hidden email]> on 11 August 2018 at 23:19

> To which you kindly replied:
>
>> Thank you; no.

Indeed so; for the same reason as I indicated above, and as others
have pointed out in this thread.

> So your concerns will be acknowledged once they make their way to
> Phabricator. You can login there with your wiki account.

Were I to perform that redundant clerical task, perhaps they would.

> Until you do so, your concerns will stay under the radar on this list.

That's rather an odd assertion, given that I posted a pointer to my
last update on this list, here:

    https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_website&diff=18292898&oldid=18291338

being the talk page of a page Gregory Varnum has told us, in this very
thread, to use for giving feedback. I note that Gregory has since
edited that talk page, so can be presumed to have seen it; albeit he
did not give a reply.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

geni
In reply to this post by Antoine Musso-3
On 22 August 2018 at 09:24, Antoine Musso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So your concerns will be acknowledged once they make their way to
> Phabricator. You can login there with your wiki account.


This would be the site who's privacy policy says

>Because we believe that you shouldn’t have to provide personal information to participate in the free knowledge movement, you may:

>Read, edit, or use any Wikimedia Site without registering an account.


Okey cheap but is does display at certian lack of attention on your part.

The problem is you are asking us to learn our way around yet another
bit of software in order to raise issues. Not just learning how to
submit but also how to navigate around to see what is going on. Sure
I'm tech savy and I can work it out if I need to (although I don't see
how to zoom into tickets from this page without subscribing to them
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/wikimediafoundation.org/ ) but
its another barrier to entry, another bit of software I need to keep
track of.




--
geni

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

Antoine Musso-3
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett-2
On 22/08/2018 13:01, Andy Mabbett wrote:
>> So your concerns will be acknowledged once they make their way to
>> Phabricator. You can login there with your wiki account.
> Were I to perform that redundant clerical task, perhaps they would.
>
>> Until you do so, your concerns will stay under the radar on this list.
> That's rather an odd assertion, given that I posted a pointer to my
> last update on this list, here:
>
>     https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_website&diff=18292898&oldid=18291338

Hello,

I was merely suggesting that your reply on this list probably got
forgotten somehow. Phabricator is tailored toward tracking an issue from
its opening until its resolution. It is a great tool.

My apologizes to have phrased that in a bad and harsh way :-\


I guess Gregory Varnum (and others involved in the project) do monitor
the talk page. So you should get a reply there.

--
Antoine "hashar" Musso




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