[Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

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[Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Amir Sarabadani-2
Hello,
Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by someone
from WMF starting with:
"My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis, except for
wikidata as part of the paid API project."

I have so many questions:
 - What is the "paid API" project? Are we planning to make money out of our
API? Now are we selling our dumps?
 - If so, why is this not communicated before? Why are we kept in the dark?
 - Does the board know and approve it?
 - How is this going to align with our core values like openness and
transparency?
 - The ticket implicitly says these are going to be stored on AWS ("S3
bucket"). Is this thought through? Specially the ethical problems of
feeding Jeff Bezos' empire? (If you have seen this episode of Hasan
Minhaj's on ethical issues of using AWS [2]). Why can't we do/host this on
Wikimedia infrastructure? Has this been evaluated?
 - Why is the community not consulted about this?

Maybe I missed announcements, consultations or anything, forgive me for my
ignorance. Any pointers is enough. I also understand diversifying our
revenue is a good tool for rainy days but a consultation with the community
wouldn't be too bad.

[1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T254275
[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maXvZ5fyQY

Best
--
Amir (he/him)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Ariel Glenn WMF
I know that the dumps will be freely available to all.

Beyond that, I hope one of the people in the project will reply to your
concerns.

I do suggest that people comment or ask questions on the task itself, as I
have no idea if any of the people on the brand new team involved with that
project see these emails.

Ariel

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:33 PM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
> Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by someone
> from WMF starting with:
> "My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis, except for
> wikidata as part of the paid API project."
>
> I have so many questions:
>  - What is the "paid API" project? Are we planning to make money out of our
> API? Now are we selling our dumps?
>  - If so, why is this not communicated before? Why are we kept in the dark?
>  - Does the board know and approve it?
>  - How is this going to align with our core values like openness and
> transparency?
>  - The ticket implicitly says these are going to be stored on AWS ("S3
> bucket"). Is this thought through? Specially the ethical problems of
> feeding Jeff Bezos' empire? (If you have seen this episode of Hasan
> Minhaj's on ethical issues of using AWS [2]). Why can't we do/host this on
> Wikimedia infrastructure? Has this been evaluated?
>  - Why is the community not consulted about this?
>
> Maybe I missed announcements, consultations or anything, forgive me for my
> ignorance. Any pointers is enough. I also understand diversifying our
> revenue is a good tool for rainy days but a consultation with the community
> wouldn't be too bad.
>
> [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T254275
> [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maXvZ5fyQY
>
> Best
> --
> Amir (he/him)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Yair Rand
In reply to this post by Amir Sarabadani-2
The strategy recommendations include the text: "Explore fees or
sustainability models for enterprise-scale commercial reusers, taking care
to avoid revenue dependencies or other undue external influence in product
design and development. / Develop appropriate safeguards to ensure
continued free, unrestricted access for non-commercial, research, and small
to moderate commercial use." Earlier versions elaborate somewhat, and there
were considerable reservations expressed about the idea during the process.

It is quite concerning.

-- Yair Rand

‫בתאריך יום א׳, 14 ביוני 2020 ב-14:33 מאת ‪Amir Sarabadani‬‏ <‪
[hidden email]‬‏>:‬

> Hello,
> Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by someone
> from WMF starting with:
> "My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis, except for
> wikidata as part of the paid API project."
>
> I have so many questions:
>  - What is the "paid API" project? Are we planning to make money out of our
> API? Now are we selling our dumps?
>  - If so, why is this not communicated before? Why are we kept in the dark?
>  - Does the board know and approve it?
>  - How is this going to align with our core values like openness and
> transparency?
>  - The ticket implicitly says these are going to be stored on AWS ("S3
> bucket"). Is this thought through? Specially the ethical problems of
> feeding Jeff Bezos' empire? (If you have seen this episode of Hasan
> Minhaj's on ethical issues of using AWS [2]). Why can't we do/host this on
> Wikimedia infrastructure? Has this been evaluated?
>  - Why is the community not consulted about this?
>
> Maybe I missed announcements, consultations or anything, forgive me for my
> ignorance. Any pointers is enough. I also understand diversifying our
> revenue is a good tool for rainy days but a consultation with the community
> wouldn't be too bad.
>
> [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T254275
> [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maXvZ5fyQY
>
> Best
> --
> Amir (he/him)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

jmh649
Was discussed here

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1

and

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1

James

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:37 PM Yair Rand <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The strategy recommendations include the text: "Explore fees or
> sustainability models for enterprise-scale commercial reusers, taking care
> to avoid revenue dependencies or other undue external influence in product
> design and development. / Develop appropriate safeguards to ensure
> continued free, unrestricted access for non-commercial, research, and small
> to moderate commercial use." Earlier versions elaborate somewhat, and there
> were considerable reservations expressed about the idea during the process.
>
> It is quite concerning.
>
> -- Yair Rand
>
> ‫בתאריך יום א׳, 14 ביוני 2020 ב-14:33 מאת ‪Amir Sarabadani‬‏ <‪
> [hidden email]‬‏>:‬
>
> > Hello,
> > Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by
> someone
> > from WMF starting with:
> > "My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis, except
> for
> > wikidata as part of the paid API project."
> >
> > I have so many questions:
> >  - What is the "paid API" project? Are we planning to make money out of
> our
> > API? Now are we selling our dumps?
> >  - If so, why is this not communicated before? Why are we kept in the
> dark?
> >  - Does the board know and approve it?
> >  - How is this going to align with our core values like openness and
> > transparency?
> >  - The ticket implicitly says these are going to be stored on AWS ("S3
> > bucket"). Is this thought through? Specially the ethical problems of
> > feeding Jeff Bezos' empire? (If you have seen this episode of Hasan
> > Minhaj's on ethical issues of using AWS [2]). Why can't we do/host this
> on
> > Wikimedia infrastructure? Has this been evaluated?
> >  - Why is the community not consulted about this?
> >
> > Maybe I missed announcements, consultations or anything, forgive me for
> my
> > ignorance. Any pointers is enough. I also understand diversifying our
> > revenue is a good tool for rainy days but a consultation with the
> community
> > wouldn't be too bad.
> >
> > [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T254275
> > [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maXvZ5fyQY
> >
> > Best
> > --
> > Amir (he/him)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

jmh649
Further details are forthcoming from WMF staff.

J

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:42 PM James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Was discussed here
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1
>
> and
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1
>
> James
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:37 PM Yair Rand <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The strategy recommendations include the text: "Explore fees or
>> sustainability models for enterprise-scale commercial reusers, taking care
>> to avoid revenue dependencies or other undue external influence in product
>> design and development. / Develop appropriate safeguards to ensure
>> continued free, unrestricted access for non-commercial, research, and
>> small
>> to moderate commercial use." Earlier versions elaborate somewhat, and
>> there
>> were considerable reservations expressed about the idea during the
>> process.
>>
>> It is quite concerning.
>>
>> -- Yair Rand
>>
>> ‫בתאריך יום א׳, 14 ביוני 2020 ב-14:33 מאת ‪Amir Sarabadani‬‏ <‪
>> [hidden email]‬‏>:‬
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by
>> someone
>> > from WMF starting with:
>> > "My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis, except
>> for
>> > wikidata as part of the paid API project."
>> >
>> > I have so many questions:
>> >  - What is the "paid API" project? Are we planning to make money out of
>> our
>> > API? Now are we selling our dumps?
>> >  - If so, why is this not communicated before? Why are we kept in the
>> dark?
>> >  - Does the board know and approve it?
>> >  - How is this going to align with our core values like openness and
>> > transparency?
>> >  - The ticket implicitly says these are going to be stored on AWS ("S3
>> > bucket"). Is this thought through? Specially the ethical problems of
>> > feeding Jeff Bezos' empire? (If you have seen this episode of Hasan
>> > Minhaj's on ethical issues of using AWS [2]). Why can't we do/host this
>> on
>> > Wikimedia infrastructure? Has this been evaluated?
>> >  - Why is the community not consulted about this?
>> >
>> > Maybe I missed announcements, consultations or anything, forgive me for
>> my
>> > ignorance. Any pointers is enough. I also understand diversifying our
>> > revenue is a good tool for rainy days but a consultation with the
>> community
>> > wouldn't be too bad.
>> >
>> > [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T254275
>> > [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maXvZ5fyQY
>> >
>> > Best
>> > --
>> > Amir (he/him)
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > New messages to: [hidden email]
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>


--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Amir Sarabadani-2
Thanks for the pointers, I personally disagree with some parts of it (e.g.
Twitter is a company and we are an NGO) BUT since it passed the community
consultation (and I somehow missed it to raise my feedback), I don't want
to be vocal about the high level reasoning behind the project.

What I would extremely appreciate is more transparent communication to the
community about such large changes (especially sooner). Something like a
two-line text on a phabricator has lots of potential for misunderstanding.

Thanks again.

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:44 PM James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Further details are forthcoming from WMF staff.
>
> J
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:42 PM James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Was discussed here
> >
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1
> >
> > and
> >
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1
> >
> > James
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:37 PM Yair Rand <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> The strategy recommendations include the text: "Explore fees or
> >> sustainability models for enterprise-scale commercial reusers, taking
> care
> >> to avoid revenue dependencies or other undue external influence in
> product
> >> design and development. / Develop appropriate safeguards to ensure
> >> continued free, unrestricted access for non-commercial, research, and
> >> small
> >> to moderate commercial use." Earlier versions elaborate somewhat, and
> >> there
> >> were considerable reservations expressed about the idea during the
> >> process.
> >>
> >> It is quite concerning.
> >>
> >> -- Yair Rand
> >>
> >> ‫בתאריך יום א׳, 14 ביוני 2020 ב-14:33 מאת ‪Amir Sarabadani‬‏ <‪
> >> [hidden email]‬‏>:‬
> >>
> >> > Hello,
> >> > Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by
> >> someone
> >> > from WMF starting with:
> >> > "My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis, except
> >> for
> >> > wikidata as part of the paid API project."
> >> >
> >> > I have so many questions:
> >> >  - What is the "paid API" project? Are we planning to make money out
> of
> >> our
> >> > API? Now are we selling our dumps?
> >> >  - If so, why is this not communicated before? Why are we kept in the
> >> dark?
> >> >  - Does the board know and approve it?
> >> >  - How is this going to align with our core values like openness and
> >> > transparency?
> >> >  - The ticket implicitly says these are going to be stored on AWS ("S3
> >> > bucket"). Is this thought through? Specially the ethical problems of
> >> > feeding Jeff Bezos' empire? (If you have seen this episode of Hasan
> >> > Minhaj's on ethical issues of using AWS [2]). Why can't we do/host
> this
> >> on
> >> > Wikimedia infrastructure? Has this been evaluated?
> >> >  - Why is the community not consulted about this?
> >> >
> >> > Maybe I missed announcements, consultations or anything, forgive me
> for
> >> my
> >> > ignorance. Any pointers is enough. I also understand diversifying our
> >> > revenue is a good tool for rainy days but a consultation with the
> >> community
> >> > wouldn't be too bad.
> >> >
> >> > [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T254275
> >> > [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maXvZ5fyQY
> >> >
> >> > Best
> >> > --
> >> > Amir (he/him)
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Amir (he/him)
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Joseph Seddon-6
Hey Amir!

Thanks for your questions. It’s sunday (for me 0400 on a Monday) and a
mailing list isn’t the right venue for a full detailed explanation for this
but I’ll give a little background.

James is correct that the work in this area is coming out of the strategy
process and the recommendations it produced [1] [2] and is part of broad
improvements we are aiming to make to Wikimedia APIs. [3] We are aiming to
improve the experience for both free knowledge and community users, along
with large scale users.

Many of the people working on this are brand new (just a few weeks in) and
just getting their feet under the table. Right now they are just
experimenting on concepts relating to the data “, as part of their
onboarding and their early research work to understand the problems and
challenges. Everything is “early days” as they say. There is a lot to learn
and work on, and right now none of it is set in stone. Even the name is
mainly a placeholder (Bulk API might be a more accurate description).

The feedback and concerns that were provided during the strategy process
will be required reading and will help guide us initially. We will
definitely need to seek the expertise and insight of our communities both
editing and technical to ensure it is not just successful but in keeping
with our movement's ideals. The community can expect to see requests for
input and feedback in the coming months.

Given we are very early in this process there will definitely be further
documentation on the work planned and some initial details will be
available ASAP. My genuine apologies that this didn’t happen already.

Many thanks

Seddon

[1] From
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Improve_User_Experience
:

** Make the Wikimedia API suite more comprehensive, reliable, secure and
fast, in partnership with large scale users where that aligns with our
mission and principles, to improve the user experience of both our direct
and indirect users, increase the reach and discoverability of our content
and the potential for data returns, and improve awareness of and ease of
attribution and verifiability for content reusers.

[2] From
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Increase_the_Sustainability_of_Our_Movement#Financial_sustainability
:

* Building enterprise-level APIs (with high standards of availability,
throughput, and usability).

** Engage partners in the development wherever appropriate, incorporating
the needs of a spectrum of small, non-commercial, and larger commercial
reusers.

** Explore fees or sustainability models for enterprise-scale commercial
reusers, taking care to avoid revenue dependencies or other undue external
influence in product design and development.

** Develop appropriate safeguards to ensure continued free, unrestricted
access for non-commercial, research, and small to moderate commercial use.

[3] For example
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Core_Platform_Team/Initiatives/API_Gateway

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 10:23 PM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Thanks for the pointers, I personally disagree with some parts of it (e.g.
> Twitter is a company and we are an NGO) BUT since it passed the community
> consultation (and I somehow missed it to raise my feedback), I don't want
> to be vocal about the high level reasoning behind the project.
>
> What I would extremely appreciate is more transparent communication to the
> community about such large changes (especially sooner). Something like a
> two-line text on a phabricator has lots of potential for misunderstanding.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:44 PM James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Further details are forthcoming from WMF staff.
> >
> > J
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:42 PM James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Was discussed here
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:37 PM Yair Rand <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> The strategy recommendations include the text: "Explore fees or
> > >> sustainability models for enterprise-scale commercial reusers, taking
> > care
> > >> to avoid revenue dependencies or other undue external influence in
> > product
> > >> design and development. / Develop appropriate safeguards to ensure
> > >> continued free, unrestricted access for non-commercial, research, and
> > >> small
> > >> to moderate commercial use." Earlier versions elaborate somewhat, and
> > >> there
> > >> were considerable reservations expressed about the idea during the
> > >> process.
> > >>
> > >> It is quite concerning.
> > >>
> > >> -- Yair Rand
> > >>
> > >> ‫בתאריך יום א׳, 14 ביוני 2020 ב-14:33 מאת ‪Amir Sarabadani‬‏ <‪
> > >> [hidden email]‬‏>:‬
> > >>
> > >> > Hello,
> > >> > Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by
> > >> someone
> > >> > from WMF starting with:
> > >> > "My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis,
> except
> > >> for
> > >> > wikidata as part of the paid API project."
> > >> >
> > >> > I have so many questions:
> > >> >  - What is the "paid API" project? Are we planning to make money out
> > of
> > >> our
> > >> > API? Now are we selling our dumps?
> > >> >  - If so, why is this not communicated before? Why are we kept in
> the
> > >> dark?
> > >> >  - Does the board know and approve it?
> > >> >  - How is this going to align with our core values like openness and
> > >> > transparency?
> > >> >  - The ticket implicitly says these are going to be stored on AWS
> ("S3
> > >> > bucket"). Is this thought through? Specially the ethical problems of
> > >> > feeding Jeff Bezos' empire? (If you have seen this episode of Hasan
> > >> > Minhaj's on ethical issues of using AWS [2]). Why can't we do/host
> > this
> > >> on
> > >> > Wikimedia infrastructure? Has this been evaluated?
> > >> >  - Why is the community not consulted about this?
> > >> >
> > >> > Maybe I missed announcements, consultations or anything, forgive me
> > for
> > >> my
> > >> > ignorance. Any pointers is enough. I also understand diversifying
> our
> > >> > revenue is a good tool for rainy days but a consultation with the
> > >> community
> > >> > wouldn't be too bad.
> > >> >
> > >> > [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T254275
> > >> > [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maXvZ5fyQY
> > >> >
> > >> > Best
> > >> > --
> > >> > Amir (he/him)
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > James Heilman
> > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Amir (he/him)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Seddon

*Community and Audience Engagement Associate*
*Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Gergő Tisza
You can find some more discussion at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_3/Promote_Sustainability_and_Resilience#Freemium

As I mentioned there, the premise of the recommendation is that the
movement needs new revenue sources; in part because the 2030 strategy is
ambitious and requires a significant increase in resources, in part because
our current lack of diversity (about 40% of the movement's budget is from
donations through website banners, and another 40% from past banners via
email campaigns and such) is a strategic risk because those donations can
be disrupted by various social or technical trends. For example, large tech
companies which are the starting point of people's internet experience
(such as Facebook or Google) clearly have aspirations to become the end
point as well - they try to ingest and display to their users directly as
much online content as they can. Today, that's not a whole lot of content
(you might see fragments of Wikipedia infoboxes in Google's "knowledge
panel", for example, but nothing resembling an encyclopedia article). Ten
years from now, that might be different, and so we need to consider how we
would sustain ourselves in such a world - in terms of revenue, and also in
terms of people (how would new editors join the project, if most people
interacted with our content not via our website, but interfaces provided by
big tech companies where there is no edit button?).

The new API project aims to do that, both in the sense of making it
possible to have more equitable arrangements with bulk reusers of our
content (who make lots of money with it), and by making it easier to reuse
content in ways that align with our movement's values (currently, if you
reuse Wikipedia content in your own website or application, and want to
provide your users with information about the licensing or provenance of
that content, or allow them to contribute, the tools we provide for that
are third rate at best). As the recommendation mentions, erecting
unintentional barriers to small-scale or non-commercial reusers was very
much a concern, and I'm sure much care will be taken during implementation
to avoid it.

Wrt transparency, I agree this was communicated less clearly than ideal,
but from the Wikimedia Foundation's point of view, it can be hard to know
when to consult the community and to what extent (churning out so much
information that few volunteers can keep up with it can be a problem too;
arguably early phases of the strategy process suffered from it). This is a
problem that has received considerable attention within the WMF recently
(unrelated to API plans) so there's at the very least an effort to make the
process of sharing plans and gathering feedback more predictable.
Also, the pandemic has been a huge disruption for the WMF. Normally, by
this point, the community would have been consulted on the draft annual
plan, which is where new initiatives tend to be announced; but that has
been delayed significantly due to so many staff members' lives being
upheaved. Movement events where such plans are usually discussed had to be
cancelled, and so on.

(Written with my volunteer hat on. I was involved in the strategy process
and helped write the recommendation snippet Yair quoted upthread; I'm not
involved in the API gateway project.)
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Chris Keating-2
It's interesting that of all the strategy recommendations, two are so far
being implemented. One is the Universal Code of Conduct, which has at least
had plenty of discussion and publicity, that even precedes the strategy
process. The other is this, which hasn't been particularly prominent
before, but the WMF seems to have a team working on it just a couple of
weeks after the final recommendations were published.

So while doing this is one of the strategy recommendations, it doesn't seem
that is is now happening *because of* the strategy recommendations....

Chris

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:46 AM Gergő Tisza <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You can find some more discussion at
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_3/Promote_Sustainability_and_Resilience#Freemium
>
> As I mentioned there, the premise of the recommendation is that the
> movement needs new revenue sources; in part because the 2030 strategy is
> ambitious and requires a significant increase in resources, in part because
> our current lack of diversity (about 40% of the movement's budget is from
> donations through website banners, and another 40% from past banners via
> email campaigns and such) is a strategic risk because those donations can
> be disrupted by various social or technical trends. For example, large tech
> companies which are the starting point of people's internet experience
> (such as Facebook or Google) clearly have aspirations to become the end
> point as well - they try to ingest and display to their users directly as
> much online content as they can. Today, that's not a whole lot of content
> (you might see fragments of Wikipedia infoboxes in Google's "knowledge
> panel", for example, but nothing resembling an encyclopedia article). Ten
> years from now, that might be different, and so we need to consider how we
> would sustain ourselves in such a world - in terms of revenue, and also in
> terms of people (how would new editors join the project, if most people
> interacted with our content not via our website, but interfaces provided by
> big tech companies where there is no edit button?).
>
> The new API project aims to do that, both in the sense of making it
> possible to have more equitable arrangements with bulk reusers of our
> content (who make lots of money with it), and by making it easier to reuse
> content in ways that align with our movement's values (currently, if you
> reuse Wikipedia content in your own website or application, and want to
> provide your users with information about the licensing or provenance of
> that content, or allow them to contribute, the tools we provide for that
> are third rate at best). As the recommendation mentions, erecting
> unintentional barriers to small-scale or non-commercial reusers was very
> much a concern, and I'm sure much care will be taken during implementation
> to avoid it.
>
> Wrt transparency, I agree this was communicated less clearly than ideal,
> but from the Wikimedia Foundation's point of view, it can be hard to know
> when to consult the community and to what extent (churning out so much
> information that few volunteers can keep up with it can be a problem too;
> arguably early phases of the strategy process suffered from it). This is a
> problem that has received considerable attention within the WMF recently
> (unrelated to API plans) so there's at the very least an effort to make the
> process of sharing plans and gathering feedback more predictable.
> Also, the pandemic has been a huge disruption for the WMF. Normally, by
> this point, the community would have been consulted on the draft annual
> plan, which is where new initiatives tend to be announced; but that has
> been delayed significantly due to so many staff members' lives being
> upheaved. Movement events where such plans are usually discussed had to be
> cancelled, and so on.
>
> (Written with my volunteer hat on. I was involved in the strategy process
> and helped write the recommendation snippet Yair quoted upthread; I'm not
> involved in the API gateway project.)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Dennis During
1. Never let a crisis go to waste.
2. Never let a strategy process go to waste.

If you've got something you want that is not necessarily universally loved,
make a plan and cram it into anything that doesn't make it a laughingstock.

Want to loot Constantinople? Make sure you're in the Crusade that passes by
there. This tactic is neutral, available for good, evil, partisan ends.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 08:43 Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> It's interesting that of all the strategy recommendations, two are so far
> being implemented. One is the Universal Code of Conduct, which has at least
> had plenty of discussion and publicity, that even precedes the strategy
> process. The other is this, which hasn't been particularly prominent
> before, but the WMF seems to have a team working on it just a couple of
> weeks after the final recommendations were published.
>
> So while doing this is one of the strategy recommendations, it doesn't seem
> that is is now happening *because of* the strategy recommendations....
>
> Chris
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:46 AM Gergő Tisza <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > You can find some more discussion at
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_3/Promote_Sustainability_and_Resilience#Freemium
> >
> > As I mentioned there, the premise of the recommendation is that the
> > movement needs new revenue sources; in part because the 2030 strategy is
> > ambitious and requires a significant increase in resources, in part
> because
> > our current lack of diversity (about 40% of the movement's budget is from
> > donations through website banners, and another 40% from past banners via
> > email campaigns and such) is a strategic risk because those donations can
> > be disrupted by various social or technical trends. For example, large
> tech
> > companies which are the starting point of people's internet experience
> > (such as Facebook or Google) clearly have aspirations to become the end
> > point as well - they try to ingest and display to their users directly as
> > much online content as they can. Today, that's not a whole lot of content
> > (you might see fragments of Wikipedia infoboxes in Google's "knowledge
> > panel", for example, but nothing resembling an encyclopedia article). Ten
> > years from now, that might be different, and so we need to consider how
> we
> > would sustain ourselves in such a world - in terms of revenue, and also
> in
> > terms of people (how would new editors join the project, if most people
> > interacted with our content not via our website, but interfaces provided
> by
> > big tech companies where there is no edit button?).
> >
> > The new API project aims to do that, both in the sense of making it
> > possible to have more equitable arrangements with bulk reusers of our
> > content (who make lots of money with it), and by making it easier to
> reuse
> > content in ways that align with our movement's values (currently, if you
> > reuse Wikipedia content in your own website or application, and want to
> > provide your users with information about the licensing or provenance of
> > that content, or allow them to contribute, the tools we provide for that
> > are third rate at best). As the recommendation mentions, erecting
> > unintentional barriers to small-scale or non-commercial reusers was very
> > much a concern, and I'm sure much care will be taken during
> implementation
> > to avoid it.
> >
> > Wrt transparency, I agree this was communicated less clearly than ideal,
> > but from the Wikimedia Foundation's point of view, it can be hard to know
> > when to consult the community and to what extent (churning out so much
> > information that few volunteers can keep up with it can be a problem too;
> > arguably early phases of the strategy process suffered from it). This is
> a
> > problem that has received considerable attention within the WMF recently
> > (unrelated to API plans) so there's at the very least an effort to make
> the
> > process of sharing plans and gathering feedback more predictable.
> > Also, the pandemic has been a huge disruption for the WMF. Normally, by
> > this point, the community would have been consulted on the draft annual
> > plan, which is where new initiatives tend to be announced; but that has
> > been delayed significantly due to so many staff members' lives being
> > upheaved. Movement events where such plans are usually discussed had to
> be
> > cancelled, and so on.
> >
> > (Written with my volunteer hat on. I was involved in the strategy process
> > and helped write the recommendation snippet Yair quoted upthread; I'm not
> > involved in the API gateway project.)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Joseph Seddon-6
In reply to this post by Chris Keating-2
Hey Chris,

I think that saying this happened because of the recommendations remains a
fair statement but for sure there are some caveats with that. I don’t want
to speak for the entire org but I'm also pretty confident in saying that
there are a lot more than just two recommendations with work having started
or about having work spun up on. Infrastructure and Financial
sustainability, User Experience, Safety and Inclusion work are all things
aligned with work the foundation is doing and that are in step with the
strategy recommendations.

With the WMF’s planning process for 2020-21, I think it is fair to say it
was done with both eyes firmly on what was working its way through Phase 2
of the strategy and we aligned or are aligning plans with what came out
back in May.  In this instance improvements to infrastructure and in this
case APIs, data interfaces etc. have been present throughout that and were
the output from two separate working groups during phase 2. The
recommendations of those two working groups aren't moving forward in
isolation either and the WMF is looking to improve its API infrastructure
in a much broader sense and that work is also getting up to speed as we
move into the next financial year.

The reason for that is that we must keep in mind that the strategy process
has gone on for nearly 4 years and the phase we just completed has been
going on for nearly two years now. The recommendations we have today have
grown from that entire 4 year body of work and the whole process has had a
huge influence on the WMF and what goals it is working towards.

Although sometimes many of us might think it, the organisation doesn’t work
in a silo and with that comes the reality that planning timelines don’t
align. I know that if the strategy had come out and the WMF had just sat on
its hands for 16 months until June 2021, waiting for another cycle, before
it started any of the work contained within the strategy, I would have had
a very strongly raised eyebrow and I think there would have been
frustrations from many people. Given that it makes sense that the WMF has
been actively preparing, readying itself and laying the groundwork to get
straight to work in implementing those recommendations.

Seddon

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:43 PM Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> It's interesting that of all the strategy recommendations, two are so far
> being implemented. One is the Universal Code of Conduct, which has at least
> had plenty of discussion and publicity, that even precedes the strategy
> process. The other is this, which hasn't been particularly prominent
> before, but the WMF seems to have a team working on it just a couple of
> weeks after the final recommendations were published.
>
> So while doing this is one of the strategy recommendations, it doesn't seem
> that is is now happening *because of* the strategy recommendations....
>
> Chris
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:46 AM Gergő Tisza <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > You can find some more discussion at
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_3/Promote_Sustainability_and_Resilience#Freemium
> >
> > As I mentioned there, the premise of the recommendation is that the
> > movement needs new revenue sources; in part because the 2030 strategy is
> > ambitious and requires a significant increase in resources, in part
> because
> > our current lack of diversity (about 40% of the movement's budget is from
> > donations through website banners, and another 40% from past banners via
> > email campaigns and such) is a strategic risk because those donations can
> > be disrupted by various social or technical trends. For example, large
> tech
> > companies which are the starting point of people's internet experience
> > (such as Facebook or Google) clearly have aspirations to become the end
> > point as well - they try to ingest and display to their users directly as
> > much online content as they can. Today, that's not a whole lot of content
> > (you might see fragments of Wikipedia infoboxes in Google's "knowledge
> > panel", for example, but nothing resembling an encyclopedia article). Ten
> > years from now, that might be different, and so we need to consider how
> we
> > would sustain ourselves in such a world - in terms of revenue, and also
> in
> > terms of people (how would new editors join the project, if most people
> > interacted with our content not via our website, but interfaces provided
> by
> > big tech companies where there is no edit button?).
> >
> > The new API project aims to do that, both in the sense of making it
> > possible to have more equitable arrangements with bulk reusers of our
> > content (who make lots of money with it), and by making it easier to
> reuse
> > content in ways that align with our movement's values (currently, if you
> > reuse Wikipedia content in your own website or application, and want to
> > provide your users with information about the licensing or provenance of
> > that content, or allow them to contribute, the tools we provide for that
> > are third rate at best). As the recommendation mentions, erecting
> > unintentional barriers to small-scale or non-commercial reusers was very
> > much a concern, and I'm sure much care will be taken during
> implementation
> > to avoid it.
> >
> > Wrt transparency, I agree this was communicated less clearly than ideal,
> > but from the Wikimedia Foundation's point of view, it can be hard to know
> > when to consult the community and to what extent (churning out so much
> > information that few volunteers can keep up with it can be a problem too;
> > arguably early phases of the strategy process suffered from it). This is
> a
> > problem that has received considerable attention within the WMF recently
> > (unrelated to API plans) so there's at the very least an effort to make
> the
> > process of sharing plans and gathering feedback more predictable.
> > Also, the pandemic has been a huge disruption for the WMF. Normally, by
> > this point, the community would have been consulted on the draft annual
> > plan, which is where new initiatives tend to be announced; but that has
> > been delayed significantly due to so many staff members' lives being
> > upheaved. Movement events where such plans are usually discussed had to
> be
> > cancelled, and so on.
> >
> > (Written with my volunteer hat on. I was involved in the strategy process
> > and helped write the recommendation snippet Yair quoted upthread; I'm not
> > involved in the API gateway project.)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Seddon

*Community and Audience Engagement Associate*
*Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation*
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

metasj
In reply to this post by Chris Keating-2
A well-provisioned bulk api has been missing for some time.  Thanks for
working on this.  And clearing up the recommended way for WP content to
appear and be linked in third-party searches and infoboxes is important --
the sort of thing that an internal policy (and way to subscribe to feeds)
can help.

I do hope we can host this on WM or openstack infrastructure, and do it in
a way that expands and improves the solid existing frameworks for HTML
dumps :)

S


On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:43 AM Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> It's interesting that of all the strategy recommendations, two are so far
> being implemented. One is the Universal Code of Conduct, which has at least
> had plenty of discussion and publicity, that even precedes the strategy
> process. The other is this, which hasn't been particularly prominent
> before, but the WMF seems to have a team working on it just a couple of
> weeks after the final recommendations were published.
>
> So while doing this is one of the strategy recommendations, it doesn't seem
> that is is now happening *because of* the strategy recommendations....
>
> Chris
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:46 AM Gergő Tisza <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > You can find some more discussion at
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_3/Promote_Sustainability_and_Resilience#Freemium
> >
> > As I mentioned there, the premise of the recommendation is that the
> > movement needs new revenue sources; in part because the 2030 strategy is
> > ambitious and requires a significant increase in resources, in part
> because
> > our current lack of diversity (about 40% of the movement's budget is from
> > donations through website banners, and another 40% from past banners via
> > email campaigns and such) is a strategic risk because those donations can
> > be disrupted by various social or technical trends. For example, large
> tech
> > companies which are the starting point of people's internet experience
> > (such as Facebook or Google) clearly have aspirations to become the end
> > point as well - they try to ingest and display to their users directly as
> > much online content as they can. Today, that's not a whole lot of content
> > (you might see fragments of Wikipedia infoboxes in Google's "knowledge
> > panel", for example, but nothing resembling an encyclopedia article). Ten
> > years from now, that might be different, and so we need to consider how
> we
> > would sustain ourselves in such a world - in terms of revenue, and also
> in
> > terms of people (how would new editors join the project, if most people
> > interacted with our content not via our website, but interfaces provided
> by
> > big tech companies where there is no edit button?).
> >
> > The new API project aims to do that, both in the sense of making it
> > possible to have more equitable arrangements with bulk reusers of our
> > content (who make lots of money with it), and by making it easier to
> reuse
> > content in ways that align with our movement's values (currently, if you
> > reuse Wikipedia content in your own website or application, and want to
> > provide your users with information about the licensing or provenance of
> > that content, or allow them to contribute, the tools we provide for that
> > are third rate at best). As the recommendation mentions, erecting
> > unintentional barriers to small-scale or non-commercial reusers was very
> > much a concern, and I'm sure much care will be taken during
> implementation
> > to avoid it.
> >
> > Wrt transparency, I agree this was communicated less clearly than ideal,
> > but from the Wikimedia Foundation's point of view, it can be hard to know
> > when to consult the community and to what extent (churning out so much
> > information that few volunteers can keep up with it can be a problem too;
> > arguably early phases of the strategy process suffered from it). This is
> a
> > problem that has received considerable attention within the WMF recently
> > (unrelated to API plans) so there's at the very least an effort to make
> the
> > process of sharing plans and gathering feedback more predictable.
> > Also, the pandemic has been a huge disruption for the WMF. Normally, by
> > this point, the community would have been consulted on the draft annual
> > plan, which is where new initiatives tend to be announced; but that has
> > been delayed significantly due to so many staff members' lives being
> > upheaved. Movement events where such plans are usually discussed had to
> be
> > cancelled, and so on.
> >
> > (Written with my volunteer hat on. I was involved in the strategy process
> > and helped write the recommendation snippet Yair quoted upthread; I'm not
> > involved in the API gateway project.)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Joseph Seddon-6
Hey all,

Apologies for the delay. Two overview pages covering the technical and
business side of the project:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OKAPI
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OKAPI

Regards
Seddon

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:29 PM Samuel Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A well-provisioned bulk api has been missing for some time.  Thanks for
> working on this.  And clearing up the recommended way for WP content to
> appear and be linked in third-party searches and infoboxes is important --
> the sort of thing that an internal policy (and way to subscribe to feeds)
> can help.
>
> I do hope we can host this on WM or openstack infrastructure, and do it in
> a way that expands and improves the solid existing frameworks for HTML
> dumps :)
>
> S
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:43 AM Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > It's interesting that of all the strategy recommendations, two are so far
> > being implemented. One is the Universal Code of Conduct, which has at
> least
> > had plenty of discussion and publicity, that even precedes the strategy
> > process. The other is this, which hasn't been particularly prominent
> > before, but the WMF seems to have a team working on it just a couple of
> > weeks after the final recommendations were published.
> >
> > So while doing this is one of the strategy recommendations, it doesn't
> seem
> > that is is now happening *because of* the strategy recommendations....
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:46 AM Gergő Tisza <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > You can find some more discussion at
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_3/Promote_Sustainability_and_Resilience#Freemium
> > >
> > > As I mentioned there, the premise of the recommendation is that the
> > > movement needs new revenue sources; in part because the 2030 strategy
> is
> > > ambitious and requires a significant increase in resources, in part
> > because
> > > our current lack of diversity (about 40% of the movement's budget is
> from
> > > donations through website banners, and another 40% from past banners
> via
> > > email campaigns and such) is a strategic risk because those donations
> can
> > > be disrupted by various social or technical trends. For example, large
> > tech
> > > companies which are the starting point of people's internet experience
> > > (such as Facebook or Google) clearly have aspirations to become the end
> > > point as well - they try to ingest and display to their users directly
> as
> > > much online content as they can. Today, that's not a whole lot of
> content
> > > (you might see fragments of Wikipedia infoboxes in Google's "knowledge
> > > panel", for example, but nothing resembling an encyclopedia article).
> Ten
> > > years from now, that might be different, and so we need to consider how
> > we
> > > would sustain ourselves in such a world - in terms of revenue, and also
> > in
> > > terms of people (how would new editors join the project, if most people
> > > interacted with our content not via our website, but interfaces
> provided
> > by
> > > big tech companies where there is no edit button?).
> > >
> > > The new API project aims to do that, both in the sense of making it
> > > possible to have more equitable arrangements with bulk reusers of our
> > > content (who make lots of money with it), and by making it easier to
> > reuse
> > > content in ways that align with our movement's values (currently, if
> you
> > > reuse Wikipedia content in your own website or application, and want to
> > > provide your users with information about the licensing or provenance
> of
> > > that content, or allow them to contribute, the tools we provide for
> that
> > > are third rate at best). As the recommendation mentions, erecting
> > > unintentional barriers to small-scale or non-commercial reusers was
> very
> > > much a concern, and I'm sure much care will be taken during
> > implementation
> > > to avoid it.
> > >
> > > Wrt transparency, I agree this was communicated less clearly than
> ideal,
> > > but from the Wikimedia Foundation's point of view, it can be hard to
> know
> > > when to consult the community and to what extent (churning out so much
> > > information that few volunteers can keep up with it can be a problem
> too;
> > > arguably early phases of the strategy process suffered from it). This
> is
> > a
> > > problem that has received considerable attention within the WMF
> recently
> > > (unrelated to API plans) so there's at the very least an effort to make
> > the
> > > process of sharing plans and gathering feedback more predictable.
> > > Also, the pandemic has been a huge disruption for the WMF. Normally, by
> > > this point, the community would have been consulted on the draft annual
> > > plan, which is where new initiatives tend to be announced; but that has
> > > been delayed significantly due to so many staff members' lives being
> > > upheaved. Movement events where such plans are usually discussed had to
> > be
> > > cancelled, and so on.
> > >
> > > (Written with my volunteer hat on. I was involved in the strategy
> process
> > > and helped write the recommendation snippet Yair quoted upthread; I'm
> not
> > > involved in the API gateway project.)
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Seddon


*Senior Community Relations Specialist*
*Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation*
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Mohammed Bachounda
Hello,
Why i'm recieving this message :
Message not delivered
There was a problem delivering your message to *[hidden email]*. See
the technical details below.

* Mohammed Bachounda <http://bachounda.com/>*
Leader Wikimedia Algeria UG
          [image: Thumbnail for version as of 13:48, 19 April 2020]


On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 2:05 AM Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> Apologies for the delay. Two overview pages covering the technical and
> business side of the project:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OKAPI
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OKAPI
>
> Regards
> Seddon
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:29 PM Samuel Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > A well-provisioned bulk api has been missing for some time.  Thanks for
> > working on this.  And clearing up the recommended way for WP content to
> > appear and be linked in third-party searches and infoboxes is important
> --
> > the sort of thing that an internal policy (and way to subscribe to feeds)
> > can help.
> >
> > I do hope we can host this on WM or openstack infrastructure, and do it
> in
> > a way that expands and improves the solid existing frameworks for HTML
> > dumps :)
> >
> > S
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:43 AM Chris Keating <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > It's interesting that of all the strategy recommendations, two are so
> far
> > > being implemented. One is the Universal Code of Conduct, which has at
> > least
> > > had plenty of discussion and publicity, that even precedes the strategy
> > > process. The other is this, which hasn't been particularly prominent
> > > before, but the WMF seems to have a team working on it just a couple of
> > > weeks after the final recommendations were published.
> > >
> > > So while doing this is one of the strategy recommendations, it doesn't
> > seem
> > > that is is now happening *because of* the strategy recommendations....
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:46 AM Gergő Tisza <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You can find some more discussion at
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_3/Promote_Sustainability_and_Resilience#Freemium
> > > >
> > > > As I mentioned there, the premise of the recommendation is that the
> > > > movement needs new revenue sources; in part because the 2030 strategy
> > is
> > > > ambitious and requires a significant increase in resources, in part
> > > because
> > > > our current lack of diversity (about 40% of the movement's budget is
> > from
> > > > donations through website banners, and another 40% from past banners
> > via
> > > > email campaigns and such) is a strategic risk because those donations
> > can
> > > > be disrupted by various social or technical trends. For example,
> large
> > > tech
> > > > companies which are the starting point of people's internet
> experience
> > > > (such as Facebook or Google) clearly have aspirations to become the
> end
> > > > point as well - they try to ingest and display to their users
> directly
> > as
> > > > much online content as they can. Today, that's not a whole lot of
> > content
> > > > (you might see fragments of Wikipedia infoboxes in Google's
> "knowledge
> > > > panel", for example, but nothing resembling an encyclopedia article).
> > Ten
> > > > years from now, that might be different, and so we need to consider
> how
> > > we
> > > > would sustain ourselves in such a world - in terms of revenue, and
> also
> > > in
> > > > terms of people (how would new editors join the project, if most
> people
> > > > interacted with our content not via our website, but interfaces
> > provided
> > > by
> > > > big tech companies where there is no edit button?).
> > > >
> > > > The new API project aims to do that, both in the sense of making it
> > > > possible to have more equitable arrangements with bulk reusers of our
> > > > content (who make lots of money with it), and by making it easier to
> > > reuse
> > > > content in ways that align with our movement's values (currently, if
> > you
> > > > reuse Wikipedia content in your own website or application, and want
> to
> > > > provide your users with information about the licensing or provenance
> > of
> > > > that content, or allow them to contribute, the tools we provide for
> > that
> > > > are third rate at best). As the recommendation mentions, erecting
> > > > unintentional barriers to small-scale or non-commercial reusers was
> > very
> > > > much a concern, and I'm sure much care will be taken during
> > > implementation
> > > > to avoid it.
> > > >
> > > > Wrt transparency, I agree this was communicated less clearly than
> > ideal,
> > > > but from the Wikimedia Foundation's point of view, it can be hard to
> > know
> > > > when to consult the community and to what extent (churning out so
> much
> > > > information that few volunteers can keep up with it can be a problem
> > too;
> > > > arguably early phases of the strategy process suffered from it). This
> > is
> > > a
> > > > problem that has received considerable attention within the WMF
> > recently
> > > > (unrelated to API plans) so there's at the very least an effort to
> make
> > > the
> > > > process of sharing plans and gathering feedback more predictable.
> > > > Also, the pandemic has been a huge disruption for the WMF. Normally,
> by
> > > > this point, the community would have been consulted on the draft
> annual
> > > > plan, which is where new initiatives tend to be announced; but that
> has
> > > > been delayed significantly due to so many staff members' lives being
> > > > upheaved. Movement events where such plans are usually discussed had
> to
> > > be
> > > > cancelled, and so on.
> > > >
> > > > (Written with my volunteer hat on. I was involved in the strategy
> > process
> > > > and helped write the recommendation snippet Yair quoted upthread; I'm
> > not
> > > > involved in the API gateway project.)
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529
> 4266
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Seddon
>
>
> *Senior Community Relations Specialist*
> *Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation*
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

William Chan-3
It's [hidden email].

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020, 19:05 Mohammed Bachounda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
> Why i'm recieving this message :
> Message not delivered
> There was a problem delivering your message to *[hidden email]*. See
> the technical details below.
>
> * Mohammed Bachounda <http://bachounda.com/>*
> Leader Wikimedia Algeria UG
>           [image: Thumbnail for version as of 13:48, 19 April 2020]
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 2:05 AM Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hey all,
> >
> > Apologies for the delay. Two overview pages covering the technical and
> > business side of the project:
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OKAPI
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OKAPI
> >
> > Regards
> > Seddon
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:29 PM Samuel Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > A well-provisioned bulk api has been missing for some time.  Thanks for
> > > working on this.  And clearing up the recommended way for WP content to
> > > appear and be linked in third-party searches and infoboxes is important
> > --
> > > the sort of thing that an internal policy (and way to subscribe to
> feeds)
> > > can help.
> > >
> > > I do hope we can host this on WM or openstack infrastructure, and do it
> > in
> > > a way that expands and improves the solid existing frameworks for HTML
> > > dumps :)
> > >
> > > S
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:43 AM Chris Keating <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > It's interesting that of all the strategy recommendations, two are so
> > far
> > > > being implemented. One is the Universal Code of Conduct, which has at
> > > least
> > > > had plenty of discussion and publicity, that even precedes the
> strategy
> > > > process. The other is this, which hasn't been particularly prominent
> > > > before, but the WMF seems to have a team working on it just a couple
> of
> > > > weeks after the final recommendations were published.
> > > >
> > > > So while doing this is one of the strategy recommendations, it
> doesn't
> > > seem
> > > > that is is now happening *because of* the strategy
> recommendations....
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:46 AM Gergő Tisza <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You can find some more discussion at
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_3/Promote_Sustainability_and_Resilience#Freemium
> > > > >
> > > > > As I mentioned there, the premise of the recommendation is that the
> > > > > movement needs new revenue sources; in part because the 2030
> strategy
> > > is
> > > > > ambitious and requires a significant increase in resources, in part
> > > > because
> > > > > our current lack of diversity (about 40% of the movement's budget
> is
> > > from
> > > > > donations through website banners, and another 40% from past
> banners
> > > via
> > > > > email campaigns and such) is a strategic risk because those
> donations
> > > can
> > > > > be disrupted by various social or technical trends. For example,
> > large
> > > > tech
> > > > > companies which are the starting point of people's internet
> > experience
> > > > > (such as Facebook or Google) clearly have aspirations to become the
> > end
> > > > > point as well - they try to ingest and display to their users
> > directly
> > > as
> > > > > much online content as they can. Today, that's not a whole lot of
> > > content
> > > > > (you might see fragments of Wikipedia infoboxes in Google's
> > "knowledge
> > > > > panel", for example, but nothing resembling an encyclopedia
> article).
> > > Ten
> > > > > years from now, that might be different, and so we need to consider
> > how
> > > > we
> > > > > would sustain ourselves in such a world - in terms of revenue, and
> > also
> > > > in
> > > > > terms of people (how would new editors join the project, if most
> > people
> > > > > interacted with our content not via our website, but interfaces
> > > provided
> > > > by
> > > > > big tech companies where there is no edit button?).
> > > > >
> > > > > The new API project aims to do that, both in the sense of making it
> > > > > possible to have more equitable arrangements with bulk reusers of
> our
> > > > > content (who make lots of money with it), and by making it easier
> to
> > > > reuse
> > > > > content in ways that align with our movement's values (currently,
> if
> > > you
> > > > > reuse Wikipedia content in your own website or application, and
> want
> > to
> > > > > provide your users with information about the licensing or
> provenance
> > > of
> > > > > that content, or allow them to contribute, the tools we provide for
> > > that
> > > > > are third rate at best). As the recommendation mentions, erecting
> > > > > unintentional barriers to small-scale or non-commercial reusers was
> > > very
> > > > > much a concern, and I'm sure much care will be taken during
> > > > implementation
> > > > > to avoid it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wrt transparency, I agree this was communicated less clearly than
> > > ideal,
> > > > > but from the Wikimedia Foundation's point of view, it can be hard
> to
> > > know
> > > > > when to consult the community and to what extent (churning out so
> > much
> > > > > information that few volunteers can keep up with it can be a
> problem
> > > too;
> > > > > arguably early phases of the strategy process suffered from it).
> This
> > > is
> > > > a
> > > > > problem that has received considerable attention within the WMF
> > > recently
> > > > > (unrelated to API plans) so there's at the very least an effort to
> > make
> > > > the
> > > > > process of sharing plans and gathering feedback more predictable.
> > > > > Also, the pandemic has been a huge disruption for the WMF.
> Normally,
> > by
> > > > > this point, the community would have been consulted on the draft
> > annual
> > > > > plan, which is where new initiatives tend to be announced; but that
> > has
> > > > > been delayed significantly due to so many staff members' lives
> being
> > > > > upheaved. Movement events where such plans are usually discussed
> had
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > cancelled, and so on.
> > > > >
> > > > > (Written with my volunteer hat on. I was involved in the strategy
> > > process
> > > > > and helped write the recommendation snippet Yair quoted upthread;
> I'm
> > > not
> > > > > involved in the API gateway project.)
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529
> > 4266
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Seddon
> >
> >
> > *Senior Community Relations Specialist*
> > *Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation*
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Mohammed Bachounda
Yes it's - donation not working for me

* Mohammed Bachounda <http://bachounda.com/>*
Leader Wikimedia Algeria UG
          [image: Thumbnail for version as of 13:48, 19 April 2020]


On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 2:20 PM William Chan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's [hidden email].
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2020, 19:05 Mohammed Bachounda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > Why i'm recieving this message :
> > Message not delivered
> > There was a problem delivering your message to *[hidden email]*.
> See
> > the technical details below.
> >
> > * Mohammed Bachounda <http://bachounda.com/>*
> > Leader Wikimedia Algeria UG
> >           [image: Thumbnail for version as of 13:48, 19 April 2020]
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 2:05 AM Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hey all,
> > >
> > > Apologies for the delay. Two overview pages covering the technical and
> > > business side of the project:
> > >
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OKAPI
> > > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OKAPI
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Seddon
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:29 PM Samuel Klein <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > A well-provisioned bulk api has been missing for some time.  Thanks
> for
> > > > working on this.  And clearing up the recommended way for WP content
> to
> > > > appear and be linked in third-party searches and infoboxes is
> important
> > > --
> > > > the sort of thing that an internal policy (and way to subscribe to
> > feeds)
> > > > can help.
> > > >
> > > > I do hope we can host this on WM or openstack infrastructure, and do
> it
> > > in
> > > > a way that expands and improves the solid existing frameworks for
> HTML
> > > > dumps :)
> > > >
> > > > S
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:43 AM Chris Keating <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > It's interesting that of all the strategy recommendations, two are
> so
> > > far
> > > > > being implemented. One is the Universal Code of Conduct, which has
> at
> > > > least
> > > > > had plenty of discussion and publicity, that even precedes the
> > strategy
> > > > > process. The other is this, which hasn't been particularly
> prominent
> > > > > before, but the WMF seems to have a team working on it just a
> couple
> > of
> > > > > weeks after the final recommendations were published.
> > > > >
> > > > > So while doing this is one of the strategy recommendations, it
> > doesn't
> > > > seem
> > > > > that is is now happening *because of* the strategy
> > recommendations....
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:46 AM Gergő Tisza <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > You can find some more discussion at
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_3/Promote_Sustainability_and_Resilience#Freemium
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As I mentioned there, the premise of the recommendation is that
> the
> > > > > > movement needs new revenue sources; in part because the 2030
> > strategy
> > > > is
> > > > > > ambitious and requires a significant increase in resources, in
> part
> > > > > because
> > > > > > our current lack of diversity (about 40% of the movement's budget
> > is
> > > > from
> > > > > > donations through website banners, and another 40% from past
> > banners
> > > > via
> > > > > > email campaigns and such) is a strategic risk because those
> > donations
> > > > can
> > > > > > be disrupted by various social or technical trends. For example,
> > > large
> > > > > tech
> > > > > > companies which are the starting point of people's internet
> > > experience
> > > > > > (such as Facebook or Google) clearly have aspirations to become
> the
> > > end
> > > > > > point as well - they try to ingest and display to their users
> > > directly
> > > > as
> > > > > > much online content as they can. Today, that's not a whole lot of
> > > > content
> > > > > > (you might see fragments of Wikipedia infoboxes in Google's
> > > "knowledge
> > > > > > panel", for example, but nothing resembling an encyclopedia
> > article).
> > > > Ten
> > > > > > years from now, that might be different, and so we need to
> consider
> > > how
> > > > > we
> > > > > > would sustain ourselves in such a world - in terms of revenue,
> and
> > > also
> > > > > in
> > > > > > terms of people (how would new editors join the project, if most
> > > people
> > > > > > interacted with our content not via our website, but interfaces
> > > > provided
> > > > > by
> > > > > > big tech companies where there is no edit button?).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The new API project aims to do that, both in the sense of making
> it
> > > > > > possible to have more equitable arrangements with bulk reusers of
> > our
> > > > > > content (who make lots of money with it), and by making it easier
> > to
> > > > > reuse
> > > > > > content in ways that align with our movement's values (currently,
> > if
> > > > you
> > > > > > reuse Wikipedia content in your own website or application, and
> > want
> > > to
> > > > > > provide your users with information about the licensing or
> > provenance
> > > > of
> > > > > > that content, or allow them to contribute, the tools we provide
> for
> > > > that
> > > > > > are third rate at best). As the recommendation mentions, erecting
> > > > > > unintentional barriers to small-scale or non-commercial reusers
> was
> > > > very
> > > > > > much a concern, and I'm sure much care will be taken during
> > > > > implementation
> > > > > > to avoid it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wrt transparency, I agree this was communicated less clearly than
> > > > ideal,
> > > > > > but from the Wikimedia Foundation's point of view, it can be hard
> > to
> > > > know
> > > > > > when to consult the community and to what extent (churning out so
> > > much
> > > > > > information that few volunteers can keep up with it can be a
> > problem
> > > > too;
> > > > > > arguably early phases of the strategy process suffered from it).
> > This
> > > > is
> > > > > a
> > > > > > problem that has received considerable attention within the WMF
> > > > recently
> > > > > > (unrelated to API plans) so there's at the very least an effort
> to
> > > make
> > > > > the
> > > > > > process of sharing plans and gathering feedback more predictable.
> > > > > > Also, the pandemic has been a huge disruption for the WMF.
> > Normally,
> > > by
> > > > > > this point, the community would have been consulted on the draft
> > > annual
> > > > > > plan, which is where new initiatives tend to be announced; but
> that
> > > has
> > > > > > been delayed significantly due to so many staff members' lives
> > being
> > > > > > upheaved. Movement events where such plans are usually discussed
> > had
> > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > cancelled, and so on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (Written with my volunteer hat on. I was involved in the strategy
> > > > process
> > > > > > and helped write the recommendation snippet Yair quoted upthread;
> > I'm
> > > > not
> > > > > > involved in the API gateway project.)
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529
> > > 4266
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Seddon
> > >
> > >
> > > *Senior Community Relations Specialist*
> > > *Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation*
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Ad Huikeshoven-3
In reply to this post by Amir Sarabadani-2
Hi,

Great news: the WMF is going to charge the tech giants for using the API
millions of times each day. Nothing in the free licenses we use obligate us
(that is we in our movement) to provide an API for free as in beer. It is
part of KAAS: Knowledge As A Service, part of the strategic direction
chosen in 2017.

Thanks for your understanding,

Ad Huikeshoven

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 8:33 PM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
> Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by someone
> from WMF starting with:
> "My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis, except for
> wikidata as part of the paid API project."
>
> I have so many questions:
>  - What is the "paid API" project? Are we planning to make money out of our
> API? Now are we selling our dumps?
>  - If so, why is this not communicated before? Why are we kept in the dark?
>  - Does the board know and approve it?
>  - How is this going to align with our core values like openness and
> transparency?
>  - The ticket implicitly says these are going to be stored on AWS ("S3
> bucket"). Is this thought through? Specially the ethical problems of
> feeding Jeff Bezos' empire? (If you have seen this episode of Hasan
> Minhaj's on ethical issues of using AWS [2]). Why can't we do/host this on
> Wikimedia infrastructure? Has this been evaluated?
>  - Why is the community not consulted about this?
>
> Maybe I missed announcements, consultations or anything, forgive me for my
> ignorance. Any pointers is enough. I also understand diversifying our
> revenue is a good tool for rainy days but a consultation with the community
> wouldn't be too bad.
>
> [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T254275
> [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maXvZ5fyQY
>
> Best
> --
> Amir (he/him)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Todd Allen
I tend to agree with this. I'm one of the first to criticize WMF when they
deserve it (I wish they didn't as often!), but I see nothing wrong with
consumers of huge amounts of data being asked to chip in to cover the costs
of providing it. That is, of course, provided that there is never any fee
for use of the API for users of data in regular amounts, but every plan
I've seen thus far accommodates that.

Todd

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 7:15 AM Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Great news: the WMF is going to charge the tech giants for using the API
> millions of times each day. Nothing in the free licenses we use obligate us
> (that is we in our movement) to provide an API for free as in beer. It is
> part of KAAS: Knowledge As A Service, part of the strategic direction
> chosen in 2017.
>
> Thanks for your understanding,
>
> Ad Huikeshoven
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 8:33 PM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by
> someone
> > from WMF starting with:
> > "My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis, except
> for
> > wikidata as part of the paid API project."
> >
> > I have so many questions:
> >  - What is the "paid API" project? Are we planning to make money out of
> our
> > API? Now are we selling our dumps?
> >  - If so, why is this not communicated before? Why are we kept in the
> dark?
> >  - Does the board know and approve it?
> >  - How is this going to align with our core values like openness and
> > transparency?
> >  - The ticket implicitly says these are going to be stored on AWS ("S3
> > bucket"). Is this thought through? Specially the ethical problems of
> > feeding Jeff Bezos' empire? (If you have seen this episode of Hasan
> > Minhaj's on ethical issues of using AWS [2]). Why can't we do/host this
> on
> > Wikimedia infrastructure? Has this been evaluated?
> >  - Why is the community not consulted about this?
> >
> > Maybe I missed announcements, consultations or anything, forgive me for
> my
> > ignorance. Any pointers is enough. I also understand diversifying our
> > revenue is a good tool for rainy days but a consultation with the
> community
> > wouldn't be too bad.
> >
> > [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T254275
> > [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maXvZ5fyQY
> >
> > Best
> > --
> > Amir (he/him)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Amir Sarabadani-2
Thanks Joseph for the links. It's more clear now.

I think I need to clarify something: I'm not against asking the big corps
to pay. If they are using a significant amount of our computational
resources (=donors money) to make even more money, they should pay. And
thank you for improving the movement's financial security. I don't oppose
the general idea.

That being said, what worries me are the details:
* WMF is creating a company (LLC) and contracts that company, this means
less transparency. This is the first time I think in the history of the
foundation AFAIK that WMF is creating a company for legal reasons (I'm
sorry if I missed anything).
* That company is contracting another company for engineering work (even
less transparency). We have lots of engineering resources at WMF.
* As the result, for the first time, code produced by donors money is
closed source and inaccessible to public (or at least I couldn't find the
code linked anywhere)
* I find it ethically wrong to use AWS, even if you can't host it in WMF
for legal reasons, why not another cloud provider.
* There wasn't a period for giving feedback for example about the choice of
cloud provider or anything, suddenly it came out ready. The rumors about it
have been going around for months.
* This has not been communicated properly to the community, I find this
lack of communication and transparency concerning and insulting.

Hope what I'm saying here makes sense.

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 7:02 PM Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I tend to agree with this. I'm one of the first to criticize WMF when they
> deserve it (I wish they didn't as often!), but I see nothing wrong with
> consumers of huge amounts of data being asked to chip in to cover the costs
> of providing it. That is, of course, provided that there is never any fee
> for use of the API for users of data in regular amounts, but every plan
> I've seen thus far accommodates that.
>
> Todd
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 7:15 AM Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Great news: the WMF is going to charge the tech giants for using the API
> > millions of times each day. Nothing in the free licenses we use obligate
> us
> > (that is we in our movement) to provide an API for free as in beer. It is
> > part of KAAS: Knowledge As A Service, part of the strategic direction
> > chosen in 2017.
> >
> > Thanks for your understanding,
> >
> > Ad Huikeshoven
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 8:33 PM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > > Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by
> > someone
> > > from WMF starting with:
> > > "My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis, except
> > for
> > > wikidata as part of the paid API project."
> > >
> > > I have so many questions:
> > >  - What is the "paid API" project? Are we planning to make money out of
> > our
> > > API? Now are we selling our dumps?
> > >  - If so, why is this not communicated before? Why are we kept in the
> > dark?
> > >  - Does the board know and approve it?
> > >  - How is this going to align with our core values like openness and
> > > transparency?
> > >  - The ticket implicitly says these are going to be stored on AWS ("S3
> > > bucket"). Is this thought through? Specially the ethical problems of
> > > feeding Jeff Bezos' empire? (If you have seen this episode of Hasan
> > > Minhaj's on ethical issues of using AWS [2]). Why can't we do/host this
> > on
> > > Wikimedia infrastructure? Has this been evaluated?
> > >  - Why is the community not consulted about this?
> > >
> > > Maybe I missed announcements, consultations or anything, forgive me for
> > my
> > > ignorance. Any pointers is enough. I also understand diversifying our
> > > revenue is a good tool for rainy days but a consultation with the
> > community
> > > wouldn't be too bad.
> > >
> > > [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T254275
> > > [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maXvZ5fyQY
> > >
> > > Best
> > > --
> > > Amir (he/him)
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Amir (he/him)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Pete Forsyth-2
Worth noting, for those who may not have been tracking this issue in the
media in recent years: CEO Katherine Maher has prominently and frequently
highlighted how big tech companies benefit from Wikipedia and Wikimedia
content, and that they pay little if anything for it. This shows up in many
places; perhaps Joseph can add to this list if I haven't picked the best
example:

* April Glaser: YouTube Is Adding Fact-Check Links for Videos on Topics
That Inspire Conspiracy Theories, August 14, 2018, Slate
https://slate.com/technology/2018/08/youtube-is-adding-fact-check-links-from-wikipedia-and-encyclopedia-britannica-for-videos-on-topics-that-inspire-conspiracy-theories.html
* And a number of tweets such as:
https://twitter.com/krmaher/status/1113394557830483969

-Pete
--
User:Peteforsyth

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 10:20 AM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Joseph for the links. It's more clear now.
>
> I think I need to clarify something: I'm not against asking the big corps
> to pay. If they are using a significant amount of our computational
> resources (=donors money) to make even more money, they should pay. And
> thank you for improving the movement's financial security. I don't oppose
> the general idea.
>
> That being said, what worries me are the details:
> * WMF is creating a company (LLC) and contracts that company, this means
> less transparency. This is the first time I think in the history of the
> foundation AFAIK that WMF is creating a company for legal reasons (I'm
> sorry if I missed anything).
> * That company is contracting another company for engineering work (even
> less transparency). We have lots of engineering resources at WMF.
> * As the result, for the first time, code produced by donors money is
> closed source and inaccessible to public (or at least I couldn't find the
> code linked anywhere)
> * I find it ethically wrong to use AWS, even if you can't host it in WMF
> for legal reasons, why not another cloud provider.
> * There wasn't a period for giving feedback for example about the choice of
> cloud provider or anything, suddenly it came out ready. The rumors about it
> have been going around for months.
> * This has not been communicated properly to the community, I find this
> lack of communication and transparency concerning and insulting.
>
> Hope what I'm saying here makes sense.
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 7:02 PM Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I tend to agree with this. I'm one of the first to criticize WMF when
> they
> > deserve it (I wish they didn't as often!), but I see nothing wrong with
> > consumers of huge amounts of data being asked to chip in to cover the
> costs
> > of providing it. That is, of course, provided that there is never any fee
> > for use of the API for users of data in regular amounts, but every plan
> > I've seen thus far accommodates that.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 7:15 AM Ad Huikeshoven <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Great news: the WMF is going to charge the tech giants for using the
> API
> > > millions of times each day. Nothing in the free licenses we use
> obligate
> > us
> > > (that is we in our movement) to provide an API for free as in beer. It
> is
> > > part of KAAS: Knowledge As A Service, part of the strategic direction
> > > chosen in 2017.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your understanding,
> > >
> > > Ad Huikeshoven
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 8:33 PM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > > Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by
> > > someone
> > > > from WMF starting with:
> > > > "My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis,
> except
> > > for
> > > > wikidata as part of the paid API project."
> > > >
> > > > I have so many questions:
> > > >  - What is the "paid API" project? Are we planning to make money out
> of
> > > our
> > > > API? Now are we selling our dumps?
> > > >  - If so, why is this not communicated before? Why are we kept in the
> > > dark?
> > > >  - Does the board know and approve it?
> > > >  - How is this going to align with our core values like openness and
> > > > transparency?
> > > >  - The ticket implicitly says these are going to be stored on AWS
> ("S3
> > > > bucket"). Is this thought through? Specially the ethical problems of
> > > > feeding Jeff Bezos' empire? (If you have seen this episode of Hasan
> > > > Minhaj's on ethical issues of using AWS [2]). Why can't we do/host
> this
> > > on
> > > > Wikimedia infrastructure? Has this been evaluated?
> > > >  - Why is the community not consulted about this?
> > > >
> > > > Maybe I missed announcements, consultations or anything, forgive me
> for
> > > my
> > > > ignorance. Any pointers is enough. I also understand diversifying our
> > > > revenue is a good tool for rainy days but a consultation with the
> > > community
> > > > wouldn't be too bad.
> > > >
> > > > [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T254275
> > > > [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maXvZ5fyQY
> > > >
> > > > Best
> > > > --
> > > > Amir (he/him)
> > > > _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Amir (he/him)
> _______________________________________________
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