[Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

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[Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

Lila Tretikov
Hi all,

As I scanned through the weekend emails on this list I noticed that many of
you are ready to get back to discussing the goals we are all working on. I
am really glad to see that. We have plenty of interesting projects to
discuss without the gossip. Let's respect the time that many following this
list are donating to the project by sticking to constructive, on topic
matters.

And for starters: the Wikipedia Android Beta app is in store and is
awaiting your comments.

Thanks,
Lila
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

metasj
We have an updated Wikipedia Beta app?  Aha, so we do.  :)

With a little "edit" pencil next to sections...  And an elegant check
to see if you want to save an anon edit or log in, after editing.
Very nice indeed.  Looks like a solid improvement.  I'll try editing
with it for a week.

Hmm, still no way to reach a Talk page. And the "History" menu option
does not bring up the History page. (instead: breadcrumbs)  & since
this is a Beta, it would be nice to have a prominent in-app way to
send feedback from any page.
SJ




On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Lila Tretikov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> As I scanned through the weekend emails on this list I noticed that many of
> you are ready to get back to discussing the goals we are all working on. I
> am really glad to see that. We have plenty of interesting projects to
> discuss without the gossip. Let's respect the time that many following this
> list are donating to the project by sticking to constructive, on topic
> matters.
>
> And for starters: the Wikipedia Android Beta app is in store and is
> awaiting your comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Lila
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

Thehelpfulone
Ahh, but some of us are on iOS which doesn’t seem to have been updated on the App Store in a while! The latest status update (at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/status#2014-05-monthly) seems to suggest it’s in Alpha state. Please can someone from the Apps Team give me some insight into the ETA for a new app, and if some of the new features of iOS 8 could be integrated into it?

--
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https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone

On 16 Jun 2014, at 11:23, Samuel Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We have an updated Wikipedia Beta app?  Aha, so we do.  :)
>
> With a little "edit" pencil next to sections...  And an elegant check
> to see if you want to save an anon edit or log in, after editing.
> Very nice indeed.  Looks like a solid improvement.  I'll try editing
> with it for a week.
>
> Hmm, still no way to reach a Talk page. And the "History" menu option
> does not bring up the History page. (instead: breadcrumbs)  & since
> this is a Beta, it would be nice to have a prominent in-app way to
> send feedback from any page.
> SJ
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Lila Tretikov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As I scanned through the weekend emails on this list I noticed that many of
>> you are ready to get back to discussing the goals we are all working on. I
>> am really glad to see that. We have plenty of interesting projects to
>> discuss without the gossip. Let's respect the time that many following this
>> list are donating to the project by sticking to constructive, on topic
>> matters.
>>
>> And for starters: the Wikipedia Android Beta app is in store and is
>> awaiting your comments.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lila
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

Edward at Logic Museum
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Lila Tretikov <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> >>Hi all,
>> >>
>> >>As I scanned through the weekend emails on this list I noticed that many of
>> >>you are ready to get back to discussing the goals we are all working on. I
>> >>am really glad to see that. We have plenty of interesting projects to
>> >>discuss without the gossip. Let's respect the time that many following this
>> >>list are donating to the project by sticking to constructive, on topic
>> >>matters.
>> >>
>> >>And for starters: the Wikipedia Android Beta app is in store and is
>> >>awaiting your comments.
>> >>

I don't know what an Android Beta app is. Could I ask if there are any
plans by WMF to address some of the content problems in Wikipedia?  
Pretty much any article in my specialist area (which is actually not all
that specialist) has serious problems - gross factual errors, omissions,
bias and so on.  I know from other specialists that this is not just
restricted to my area: economics, sociology, many areas of the arts and
humanities have similar problems.

This is not just a Wikimedia issue, it's a public interest issue.
Wikipedia is now the go-to place for knowledge for pretty much everyone
in the world. I don't see how WMF is fulfilling its mission (empowering
people to collect and develop and disseminate educational content under
a free license) when the content isn't actually educational.

Regards

Ed



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

Sage Ross
In reply to this post by Thehelpfulone
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Thehelpfulone
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ahh, but some of us are on iOS which doesn’t seem to have been updated on the App Store in a while! The latest status update (at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/status#2014-05-monthly) seems to suggest it’s in Alpha state. Please can someone from the Apps Team give me some insight into the ETA for a new app, and if some of the new features of iOS 8 could be integrated into it?
>

I believe the provisional release date is July 7.[1]

In broad strokes, the functionality of the new iOS app is pretty
similar to the new Android app, although I must say the iOS version
has a really cool way of handling the in-article navigation with both
a ToC and a scrollable miniature view of the article. Someone who
knows better can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think much
attention has been given yet to potential iOS 8-specific features.

-Sage

[1] = http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mobile-l/2014-June/007331.html

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

Steven Walling
In reply to this post by Edward at Logic Museum
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:22 AM, edward <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Could I ask if there are any plans by WMF to address some of the content
> problems in Wikipedia?  Pretty much any article in my specialist area
> (which is actually not all that specialist) has serious problems - gross
> factual errors, omissions, bias and so on.  I know from other specialists
> that this is not just restricted to my area: economics, sociology, many
> areas of the arts and humanities have similar problems.
>
> This is not just a Wikimedia issue, it's a public interest issue.
> Wikipedia is now the go-to place for knowledge for pretty much everyone in
> the world. I don't see how WMF is fulfilling its mission (empowering people
> to collect and develop and disseminate educational content under a free
> license) when the content isn't actually educational.
>

Hi Ed,

The Wikimedia Foundation does not write nor edit content on Wikipedia, nor
does it dictate editorial policy. All of the content is written, edited,
and controlled by whomever would like to volunteer their time to improve
it.

As such, this is often why the response to a statement like "Pretty much
any article in my specialist area (which is actually not all that
specialist) has serious problems" is to invite you to edit it.[1] :-) If
you need help, there are forums like the Teahouse,[2] where you can get
answers from friendly, experienced Wikipedia editors. If you simply don't
have the time to volunteer on improving any content, you can of course
always leave suggestions on the Talk page associated with any article.

Steven

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold_in_updating_pages
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

Kevin Gorman
In reply to this post by Edward at Logic Museum
Hi Ed -

Though I'm not sure what your area of specialty is offhand, I'd point you
towards the Wiki Education Foundation and the US Education Program.
 Although the program has a bit of a checkered history, I feel like it's
starting to come together quite well, and it does have the direct aim of
improving the quality of our content in areas that are currently lacking.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:22 AM, edward <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Lila Tretikov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> >>Hi all,
>>> >>
>>> >>As I scanned through the weekend emails on this list I noticed that
>>> many of
>>> >>you are ready to get back to discussing the goals we are all working
>>> on. I
>>> >>am really glad to see that. We have plenty of interesting projects to
>>> >>discuss without the gossip. Let's respect the time that many following
>>> this
>>> >>list are donating to the project by sticking to constructive, on topic
>>> >>matters.
>>> >>
>>> >>And for starters: the Wikipedia Android Beta app is in store and is
>>> >>awaiting your comments.
>>> >>
>>>
>>
> I don't know what an Android Beta app is. Could I ask if there are any
> plans by WMF to address some of the content problems in Wikipedia?  Pretty
> much any article in my specialist area (which is actually not all that
> specialist) has serious problems - gross factual errors, omissions, bias
> and so on.  I know from other specialists that this is not just restricted
> to my area: economics, sociology, many areas of the arts and humanities
> have similar problems.
>
> This is not just a Wikimedia issue, it's a public interest issue.
> Wikipedia is now the go-to place for knowledge for pretty much everyone in
> the world. I don't see how WMF is fulfilling its mission (empowering people
> to collect and develop and disseminate educational content under a free
> license) when the content isn't actually educational.
>
> Regards
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

geni
In reply to this post by Steven Walling
On 17 June 2014 00:23, Steven Walling <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> The Wikimedia Foundation does not write nor edit content on Wikipedia, nor
> does it dictate editorial policy. All of the content is written, edited,
> and controlled by whomever would like to volunteer their time to improve
> it.
>
> As such, this is often why the response to a statement like "Pretty much
> any article in my specialist area (which is actually not all that
> specialist) has serious problems" is to invite you to edit it.[1]
>

User:Peter Damian is currently subject to a community ban on the English
wikipedia.


Original details at


http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=305732814#Enough_is_enough



--
geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

Edward at Logic Museum
In reply to this post by Kevin Gorman
On 17/06/2014 00:28, Kevin Gorman wrote:
 >>Hi Ed - I'm not sure what your area of specialty is offhand,

This http://cuapress.cua.edu/res/docs/Fall-2014-Catalog.pdf#page=17 will
be published in September this year, about the early philosophy of the
medieval theologian Duns Scotus. My focus is on philosophy and logic,
primarily of the middle ages (a period covering more than a thousand
years) but also modern analytic philosophy and philosophy of language.
Philosophy generally is an area that is very poorly covered on Wikipedia.

There is the excellent Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.html but that is not written for the
general reader and even specialists in one area might have problems with
articles in another area http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/modeltheory-fo .

There is a similar problem with Wikipedia mathematics and mathematical
logic articles, by the way.  Unlike articles in my area, they seem to be
correct, but they are not written in a style that is accessible to the
general reader.

 >>On 17/06/2014 00:23, Steven Walling wrote:
The Wikimedia Foundation does not write nor edit content on Wikipedia,
nor does it dictate editorial policy.

I am aware of that, but (a) does that have to be the case anyway? If the
model clearly isn’t working, why not consider another model?

And (b) isn’t the role of the WMF rather like that of the owner of a
large plot of land to be used as a garden.  The owner doesn’t do the
gardening directly, but is involved with supplies of fertiliser,
weedkiller, pest control and so on.

Or (c) perhaps the answer might be to help buy the land for other
gardens, unconnected with the original one? I have recently been talking
to the owners of other specialist sites, whose coverage is better than
Wikipedia’s. Perhaps the Foundation could help them with software
development, or even persuade them to use Mediawiki (which IMO is
excellent for this purpose, but needs selling).

 >>"Pretty much any article in my specialist area (which is actually not
all that specialist) has serious problems" is to invite you to edit it.

See geni’s remark below. I can’t edit, and even if I could, it would not
address the general problem of getting specialists involved. I am still
in touch with some of the specialists in my area who used to edit
Wikipedia. Recently I had lunch in London with Julie Hofmann (was,
user:JHK, who was recruited by Larry Sanger and who left in 2002. They
all say the same thing: Wikipedia is not a welcoming place for experts.  
Pretty much everyone who was working in my subject has left a long time
ago.

On 17/06/2014 00:32, geni wrote:
 >>User:Peter Damian is currently subject to a community ban on the
English wikipedia.

  ‘Community ban’ is a misleading term, implying the whole community,
which it doesn’t. My ban was unconnected with the quality of the content
I contributed.  And see my reply to Steven Walling above. One person is
not going to make a whole lot of difference. The problem is with the
garden and the soil, not a single plant.

I don’t see why the WMF couldn’t provide help and advice here. If there
really is an appetite for change – and it really is needed – then now is
a good time to discuss it.

Edward

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

Jon Davies
At WMUK we are often approached by people wanting to improve content in an
area. We can offer edit training and support for events where people can
come together and improve or create pages.  Last week our editathon run by
volunteer Doug Taylor with Barclays was one such success:   *'There were
472 “saves” and 378 articles edited or created across 18 different language
Wikipedias'.*

Have a look at the blog
<https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/06/a-global-editathon-teaching-wikipedia-to-barclays/>

Jon Davies,


On 17 June 2014 07:14, edward <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 17/06/2014 00:28, Kevin Gorman wrote:
> >>Hi Ed - I'm not sure what your area of specialty is offhand,
>
> This http://cuapress.cua.edu/res/docs/Fall-2014-Catalog.pdf#page=17 will
> be published in September this year, about the early philosophy of the
> medieval theologian Duns Scotus. My focus is on philosophy and logic,
> primarily of the middle ages (a period covering more than a thousand years)
> but also modern analytic philosophy and philosophy of language. Philosophy
> generally is an area that is very poorly covered on Wikipedia.
>
> There is the excellent Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
> http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.html but that is not written for the
> general reader and even specialists in one area might have problems with
> articles in another area http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/modeltheory-fo
> .
>
> There is a similar problem with Wikipedia mathematics and mathematical
> logic articles, by the way.  Unlike articles in my area, they seem to be
> correct, but they are not written in a style that is accessible to the
> general reader.
>
>
> >>On 17/06/2014 00:23, Steven Walling wrote:
> The Wikimedia Foundation does not write nor edit content on Wikipedia, nor
> does it dictate editorial policy.
>
> I am aware of that, but (a) does that have to be the case anyway? If the
> model clearly isn’t working, why not consider another model?
>
> And (b) isn’t the role of the WMF rather like that of the owner of a large
> plot of land to be used as a garden.  The owner doesn’t do the gardening
> directly, but is involved with supplies of fertiliser, weedkiller, pest
> control and so on.
>
> Or (c) perhaps the answer might be to help buy the land for other gardens,
> unconnected with the original one? I have recently been talking to the
> owners of other specialist sites, whose coverage is better than
> Wikipedia’s. Perhaps the Foundation could help them with software
> development, or even persuade them to use Mediawiki (which IMO is excellent
> for this purpose, but needs selling).
>
> >>"Pretty much any article in my specialist area (which is actually not
> all that specialist) has serious problems" is to invite you to edit it.
>
> See geni’s remark below. I can’t edit, and even if I could, it would not
> address the general problem of getting specialists involved. I am still in
> touch with some of the specialists in my area who used to edit Wikipedia.
> Recently I had lunch in London with Julie Hofmann (was, user:JHK, who was
> recruited by Larry Sanger and who left in 2002. They all say the same
> thing: Wikipedia is not a welcoming place for experts.  Pretty much
> everyone who was working in my subject has left a long time ago.
>
>
> On 17/06/2014 00:32, geni wrote:
> >>User:Peter Damian is currently subject to a community ban on the English
> wikipedia.
>
>  ‘Community ban’ is a misleading term, implying the whole community, which
> it doesn’t. My ban was unconnected with the quality of the content I
> contributed.  And see my reply to Steven Walling above. One person is not
> going to make a whole lot of difference. The problem is with the garden and
> the soil, not a single plant.
>
> I don’t see why the WMF couldn’t provide help and advice here. If there
> really is an appetite for change – and it really is needed – then now is a
> good time to discuss it.
>
> Edward
>
>
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> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please be considerate of everyone's time.

Austin Hair
In reply to this post by Edward at Logic Museum
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 8:14 AM, edward <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>On 17/06/2014 00:23, Steven Walling wrote:
>> The Wikimedia Foundation does not write nor edit content on Wikipedia, nor
>> does it dictate editorial policy.
>
> I am aware of that, but (a) does that have to be the case anyway? If the
> model clearly isn’t working, why not consider another model?

Even if this were clear to anyone but you, Wikimedia-l is not the
place to discuss your issues with the English Wikipedia.

> See geni’s remark below. I can’t edit

I believe you'll find this a common problem with your approach.

Austin

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