[Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

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[Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

Billinghurst
I am looking for a productive mailing list that discusses matters of
importance to the Wikimedia community. That the people on such a list can
have these discussions politely, respectfully, and with concern for others
in that the words that say, and attitudes taken.  I want to see
announcements, I want to see a higher quality of conversation on what
should be a flaglist in the mailing list space of Wikimedia.

We don't have it. One gets to the point of utter frustration with this
list, and it is time that the backstabbers, frontstabbers, bitchfighters,
venal, conceited, etc. need a place to kill each other with as much venom
as possible, but not under the more impressive and specific name of
wikimedia-l. So please rename this list, and take all its people to
something befitting the behaviour seen.  Then please produce a clean list
for those who don't have to have the antics of these unbearable,
egotistical, and apparently intolerant and chauvinistic people, and please
don't let them join that list.  They can have their shithole and revel in
it. They know who they are and they would feel ashamed if they had a
modicum of interest outside of themselves.

If that is not possible, then those of who us who want a higher quality
discussion will unsubscribe, and be unrepresented and unheard. Another win
for the trolls, and a sad reflection on the direction.

Regards, Billinghurst


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

Dennis Pierri
Agreed, this list has seen too much personal confrontation, fights and
general shit and nothing really productive lately, by the way, be
ready for the shit storm from those who feel alluded.

On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 10:33 PM, billinghurst <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am looking for a productive mailing list that discusses matters of
> importance to the Wikimedia community. That the people on such a list can
> have these discussions politely, respectfully, and with concern for others
> in that the words that say, and attitudes taken.  I want to see
> announcements, I want to see a higher quality of conversation on what
> should be a flaglist in the mailing list space of Wikimedia.
>
> We don't have it. One gets to the point of utter frustration with this
> list, and it is time that the backstabbers, frontstabbers, bitchfighters,
> venal, conceited, etc. need a place to kill each other with as much venom
> as possible, but not under the more impressive and specific name of
> wikimedia-l. So please rename this list, and take all its people to
> something befitting the behaviour seen.  Then please produce a clean list
> for those who don't have to have the antics of these unbearable,
> egotistical, and apparently intolerant and chauvinistic people, and please
> don't let them join that list.  They can have their shithole and revel in
> it. They know who they are and they would feel ashamed if they had a
> modicum of interest outside of themselves.
>
> If that is not possible, then those of who us who want a higher quality
> discussion will unsubscribe, and be unrepresented and unheard. Another win
> for the trolls, and a sad reflection on the direction.
>
> Regards, Billinghurst
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--

Dennis Pierri

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
But this behaviour that you are saying is so Wikimedia Movement, the name
is totally correct. And expect a block, because they are free, but they
"need to act in the name of the community, to stop 'trolls'". ;)


On 16 June 2014 00:51, Dennis Pierri <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Agreed, this list has seen too much personal confrontation, fights and
> general shit and nothing really productive lately, by the way, be
> ready for the shit storm from those who feel alluded.
>
> On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 10:33 PM, billinghurst <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > I am looking for a productive mailing list that discusses matters of
> > importance to the Wikimedia community. That the people on such a list can
> > have these discussions politely, respectfully, and with concern for
> others
> > in that the words that say, and attitudes taken.  I want to see
> > announcements, I want to see a higher quality of conversation on what
> > should be a flaglist in the mailing list space of Wikimedia.
> >
> > We don't have it. One gets to the point of utter frustration with this
> > list, and it is time that the backstabbers, frontstabbers, bitchfighters,
> > venal, conceited, etc. need a place to kill each other with as much venom
> > as possible, but not under the more impressive and specific name of
> > wikimedia-l. So please rename this list, and take all its people to
> > something befitting the behaviour seen.  Then please produce a clean list
> > for those who don't have to have the antics of these unbearable,
> > egotistical, and apparently intolerant and chauvinistic people, and
> please
> > don't let them join that list.  They can have their shithole and revel in
> > it. They know who they are and they would feel ashamed if they had a
> > modicum of interest outside of themselves.
> >
> > If that is not possible, then those of who us who want a higher quality
> > discussion will unsubscribe, and be unrepresented and unheard. Another
> win
> > for the trolls, and a sad reflection on the direction.
> >
> > Regards, Billinghurst
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dennis Pierri
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
[hidden email]
+55 11 979 718 884
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

Jasper Deng
I would support increased moderation too, except that sockpuppetry on email
lists is trivial (do we really want to go into the mess of implementing
CheckUser for email headers?).


On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> But this behaviour that you are saying is so Wikimedia Movement, the name
> is totally correct. And expect a block, because they are free, but they
> "need to act in the name of the community, to stop 'trolls'". ;)
>
>
> On 16 June 2014 00:51, Dennis Pierri <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Agreed, this list has seen too much personal confrontation, fights and
> > general shit and nothing really productive lately, by the way, be
> > ready for the shit storm from those who feel alluded.
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 10:33 PM, billinghurst <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > I am looking for a productive mailing list that discusses matters of
> > > importance to the Wikimedia community. That the people on such a list
> can
> > > have these discussions politely, respectfully, and with concern for
> > others
> > > in that the words that say, and attitudes taken.  I want to see
> > > announcements, I want to see a higher quality of conversation on what
> > > should be a flaglist in the mailing list space of Wikimedia.
> > >
> > > We don't have it. One gets to the point of utter frustration with this
> > > list, and it is time that the backstabbers, frontstabbers,
> bitchfighters,
> > > venal, conceited, etc. need a place to kill each other with as much
> venom
> > > as possible, but not under the more impressive and specific name of
> > > wikimedia-l. So please rename this list, and take all its people to
> > > something befitting the behaviour seen.  Then please produce a clean
> list
> > > for those who don't have to have the antics of these unbearable,
> > > egotistical, and apparently intolerant and chauvinistic people, and
> > please
> > > don't let them join that list.  They can have their shithole and revel
> in
> > > it. They know who they are and they would feel ashamed if they had a
> > > modicum of interest outside of themselves.
> > >
> > > If that is not possible, then those of who us who want a higher quality
> > > discussion will unsubscribe, and be unrepresented and unheard. Another
> > win
> > > for the trolls, and a sad reflection on the direction.
> > >
> > > Regards, Billinghurst
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dennis Pierri
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
> [hidden email]
> +55 11 979 718 884
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

Dennis Pierri
Buddy I would support more common sense, some people on the list just don't think twice before hitting send, that's the way you start a wildfire.
This has become an unmoderated forum full of people who seemingly doesn't remember that there are better ways or places to say to another "I hate you".
Really everyone should ask themselves before hitting send some of  this questions:
"Does this serves a good purpose?"
"Is it going to do any good?"
"Will it cause unnecessary conflict?"
"It is written in a proper and polite way?"
Being emotional and eager to say something is not so good here, it's a mail list, you can take your time, be as polite as possible, and use your common sense, or else this will get worse.

Dennis Pierri

On 16/06/2014, at 00:01, Jasper Deng <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would support increased moderation too, except that sockpuppetry on email
> lists is trivial (do we really want to go into the mess of implementing
> CheckUser for email headers?).
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> But this behaviour that you are saying is so Wikimedia Movement, the name
>> is totally correct. And expect a block, because they are free, but they
>> "need to act in the name of the community, to stop 'trolls'". ;)
>>
>>
>> On 16 June 2014 00:51, Dennis Pierri <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed, this list has seen too much personal confrontation, fights and
>>> general shit and nothing really productive lately, by the way, be
>>> ready for the shit storm from those who feel alluded.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 10:33 PM, billinghurst <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I am looking for a productive mailing list that discusses matters of
>>>> importance to the Wikimedia community. That the people on such a list
>> can
>>>> have these discussions politely, respectfully, and with concern for
>>> others
>>>> in that the words that say, and attitudes taken.  I want to see
>>>> announcements, I want to see a higher quality of conversation on what
>>>> should be a flaglist in the mailing list space of Wikimedia.
>>>>
>>>> We don't have it. One gets to the point of utter frustration with this
>>>> list, and it is time that the backstabbers, frontstabbers,
>> bitchfighters,
>>>> venal, conceited, etc. need a place to kill each other with as much
>> venom
>>>> as possible, but not under the more impressive and specific name of
>>>> wikimedia-l. So please rename this list, and take all its people to
>>>> something befitting the behaviour seen.  Then please produce a clean
>> list
>>>> for those who don't have to have the antics of these unbearable,
>>>> egotistical, and apparently intolerant and chauvinistic people, and
>>> please
>>>> don't let them join that list.  They can have their shithole and revel
>> in
>>>> it. They know who they are and they would feel ashamed if they had a
>>>> modicum of interest outside of themselves.
>>>>
>>>> If that is not possible, then those of who us who want a higher quality
>>>> discussion will unsubscribe, and be unrepresented and unheard. Another
>>> win
>>>> for the trolls, and a sad reflection on the direction.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Billinghurst
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Dennis Pierri
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
>> [hidden email]
>> +55 11 979 718 884
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

Craig Franklin
I must agree with the frustration over the quality of discussion on this
mailing list lately, but I did want to make clear my appreciation to the
list admins, who have decided to avoid playing semantic word games over
what is and is not appropriate, and started moderating people who want to
use this list for personal abuse, trolling, and other inappropriate
discussions.  This list has an unfortunate but not undeserved reputation as
a bit of a sewer, but that doesn't mean we should lower our expectations on
user conduct.  From this subscriber at least, your attempts to clean up
this place are very much appreciated, and I hope they continue.

Cheers,
Craig


On 16 June 2014 15:43, Dennis Pierri <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Buddy I would support more common sense, some people on the list just
> don't think twice before hitting send, that's the way you start a wildfire.
> This has become an unmoderated forum full of people who seemingly doesn't
> remember that there are better ways or places to say to another "I hate
> you".
> Really everyone should ask themselves before hitting send some of  this
> questions:
> "Does this serves a good purpose?"
> "Is it going to do any good?"
> "Will it cause unnecessary conflict?"
> "It is written in a proper and polite way?"
> Being emotional and eager to say something is not so good here, it's a
> mail list, you can take your time, be as polite as possible, and use your
> common sense, or else this will get worse.
>
> Dennis Pierri
>
> On 16/06/2014, at 00:01, Jasper Deng <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I would support increased moderation too, except that sockpuppetry on
> email
> > lists is trivial (do we really want to go into the mess of implementing
> > CheckUser for email headers?).
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> But this behaviour that you are saying is so Wikimedia Movement, the
> name
> >> is totally correct. And expect a block, because they are free, but they
> >> "need to act in the name of the community, to stop 'trolls'". ;)
> >>
> >>
> >> On 16 June 2014 00:51, Dennis Pierri <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Agreed, this list has seen too much personal confrontation, fights and
> >>> general shit and nothing really productive lately, by the way, be
> >>> ready for the shit storm from those who feel alluded.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 10:33 PM, billinghurst <[hidden email]
> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> I am looking for a productive mailing list that discusses matters of
> >>>> importance to the Wikimedia community. That the people on such a list
> >> can
> >>>> have these discussions politely, respectfully, and with concern for
> >>> others
> >>>> in that the words that say, and attitudes taken.  I want to see
> >>>> announcements, I want to see a higher quality of conversation on what
> >>>> should be a flaglist in the mailing list space of Wikimedia.
> >>>>
> >>>> We don't have it. One gets to the point of utter frustration with this
> >>>> list, and it is time that the backstabbers, frontstabbers,
> >> bitchfighters,
> >>>> venal, conceited, etc. need a place to kill each other with as much
> >> venom
> >>>> as possible, but not under the more impressive and specific name of
> >>>> wikimedia-l. So please rename this list, and take all its people to
> >>>> something befitting the behaviour seen.  Then please produce a clean
> >> list
> >>>> for those who don't have to have the antics of these unbearable,
> >>>> egotistical, and apparently intolerant and chauvinistic people, and
> >>> please
> >>>> don't let them join that list.  They can have their shithole and revel
> >> in
> >>>> it. They know who they are and they would feel ashamed if they had a
> >>>> modicum of interest outside of themselves.
> >>>>
> >>>> If that is not possible, then those of who us who want a higher
> quality
> >>>> discussion will unsubscribe, and be unrepresented and unheard. Another
> >>> win
> >>>> for the trolls, and a sad reflection on the direction.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards, Billinghurst
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >>>> [hidden email]
> >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Dennis Pierri
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
> >> [hidden email]
> >> +55 11 979 718 884
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

Tim Starling-2
In reply to this post by Billinghurst
On 16/06/14 13:03, billinghurst wrote:
> I am looking for a productive mailing list that discusses matters of
> importance to the Wikimedia community. That the people on such a list can
> have these discussions politely, respectfully, and with concern for others
> in that the words that say, and attitudes taken.  I want to see
> announcements, I want to see a higher quality of conversation on what
> should be a flaglist in the mailing list space of Wikimedia.

That's a tautology. You can't postmoderate a mailing list. There's not
even any meaningful access control (luckily the trolls haven't figured
that out yet). You can't even premoderate in any meaningful way,
because people use "reply all" to send messages directly to the thread
participants. So there's not really any way to do better than what
we're doing already.

People get angry when there are 10 posts in a row on a topic that they
don't care about, because they use unthreaded clients and so have no
way to organise messages into groups. And people that do use threaded
clients are constantly annoyed when people send to the list in a way
that breaks threading.

The way to have a better mailing list is to not use a mailing list.
NNTP with a web frontend would be better in pretty much every way.

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

David Gerard-2
On 16 June 2014 10:41, Tim Starling <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The way to have a better mailing list is to not use a mailing list.
> NNTP with a web frontend would be better in pretty much every way.


There are no good web frontends for NNTP. (GMane and Google Groups
both manage "worst of both worlds".) My hypothesis is that this is
because the fundamental unit of NNTP/email is the message, but of web
forums it's the thread. Idle rambling, with comments from people who
also used to love NNTP but can't be bothered any more:
http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/566555.html


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

David Gerard-2
On 16 June 2014 10:43, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 16 June 2014 10:41, Tim Starling <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> The way to have a better mailing list is to not use a mailing list.
>> NNTP with a web frontend would be better in pretty much every way.

> There are no good web frontends for NNTP. (GMane and Google Groups
> both manage "worst of both worlds".) My hypothesis is that this is
> because the fundamental unit of NNTP/email is the message, but of web
> forums it's the thread. Idle rambling, with comments from people who
> also used to love NNTP but can't be bothered any more:
> http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/566555.html



Of course, there's the "what NNTP died of" problem. Here's a recent
LessWrong thread in which I posit it died of not being on the Web and
Gwern suggests it was actually good killfiling:

http://lesswrong.com/lw/kbk/meta_policy_for_dealing_with_users/az6f


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

Federico Leva (Nemo)
In reply to this post by Craig Franklin
Thinking twice is nice and that's what mailman moderation is about. Just
for this month we could half the soft quota
(https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l ) and calculate it over two
months. According to
http://www.infodisiac.com/Wikipedia/ScanMail/Wikimedia-l.html this would
mean moderating me as soon as I hit send now. :)

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

pi zero
In reply to this post by Billinghurst
> I am looking for a productive mailing list that discusses matters of
> importance to the Wikimedia community. That the people on such a list can
> have these discussions politely, respectfully, and with concern for others
> in that the words that say, and attitudes taken.  I want to see
> announcements, I want to see a higher quality of conversation on what
> should be a flaglist in the mailing list space of Wikimedia.


Producing civil discourse isn't easy.  I was very impressed by AGF when I
first arrived at Wikipedia, and it's taken me some years to realize it goes
badly wrong in the long term; protects refined trolls, who learn to use it
as a shield against accusations of bad faith and a weapon against those of
good faith whom they manage to provoke.  The opposite extreme may only work
under special circumstances --- Never assume
<https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Never_assume> works tolerably well
for en.wn, but Wikinews has the advantage that most discussions can't
meaningfully drag out anyway because most issues of contention would be
unpublished articles, which rapidly go stale and become irrelevant (so that
partial moderation of discussions is afforded indirectly by en.wn's
article-review workflow, which is more nearly objective than a direct
discussion-moderation).  Arguably, AGF shows that fully distributed
moderation doesn't work, while Never assume only shows that weak direct
moderation can work if there's an external factor imposing order.  The
internet is a dangerous place
<http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/02/internet_troll_personality_study_machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html>
and one wants a set of rules for moderating internet discussions that is
radically inclusive of those of good faith but wildly different views,
exclusive of troublemakers, and objective enough to be enforced
consistently and successfully by many different moderators of good faith.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

Jane Darnell
In reply to this post by Federico Leva (Nemo)
Nemo, thanks for that - it really made me laugh. Jane


On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Thinking twice is nice and that's what mailman moderation is about. Just
> for this month we could half the soft quota (https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l ) and calculate it over two months. According to
> http://www.infodisiac.com/Wikipedia/ScanMail/Wikimedia-l.html this would
> mean moderating me as soon as I hit send now. :)
>
> Nemo
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Federico Leva (Nemo)
Everyone move to wikien-l! It's pretty much disused now. Go on, give
me work to do.

On 16 June 2014 11:23, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thinking twice is nice and that's what mailman moderation is about. Just for
> this month we could half the soft quota
> (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l ) and calculate it over two
> months. According to
> http://www.infodisiac.com/Wikipedia/ScanMail/Wikimedia-l.html this would
> mean moderating me as soon as I hit send now. :)
>
> Nemo
>
>
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please rename this list to shitfight-l, and give us a list where civil discussion about wikimedia can take place

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
Sorry but en,wp is not for me and many others.. No reasons except that it
is not what I/we am/are involved in. We need something that is more
inclusive.
Thanks,
     GerardM


On 16 June 2014 13:44, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Everyone move to wikien-l! It's pretty much disused now. Go on, give
> me work to do.
>
> On 16 June 2014 11:23, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Thinking twice is nice and that's what mailman moderation is about. Just
> for
> > this month we could half the soft quota
> > (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l ) and calculate it over two
> > months. According to
> > http://www.infodisiac.com/Wikipedia/ScanMail/Wikimedia-l.html this would
> > mean moderating me as soon as I hit send now. :)
> >
> > Nemo
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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