[Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Matthew Roth
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 3:34 AM, Michael Peel
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
# Press releases. When there's an upcoming significant press release from a
> Wikimedia organisation, then it should be good practice to share it with
> the other movement partners prior to its release, so that they are aware of
> it, can provide feedback, and can plan around it. Some of this already
> happens on wmfcc-l, but not consistently - much more could be done here.
>

I really hope we continue to use the Communications Committee list for this
purpose. I think if anything, more groups could share more of their press
releases and information there. We try to do it with every press release at
the WMF. It is an active part of our communications strategy for
announcements. It's even something we explicitly state when we first liaise
with press reps from the big telecommunications companies for Wikipedia
Zero announcements. They probably aren't super comfortable with it, but we
insist that the community who works in press will be given the embargoed
release before it is public.


> # Domain names. There is a list of these on internal already, which is
> actually being maintained by some people. Tackling squatted domain names
> and keeping track of who owns what is a global problem that should be done
> collaboratively, but in confidence, rather than just by individual
> organisations.
> # Contact information for the various organisations. Some of this can be
> done publicly, but not all, and it would be good to have a central place
> for this information anyway.
> # Notices of sensitive activities. E.g. if there's an upcoming risk of law
> suits, infrastructure difficulties within organisations, etc. then it would
> be good to be able to share these and ask for help without publishing them
> to the world at the same time. That doesn't need a mailing list - it can be
> done on a wiki.
> # … and I'm sure there's more examples that can go here, this isn't trying
> to be a complete list!
>
> So, rather than close the internal wiki, I'd like to propose a radical
> redesign and repurposing of it. Is there the interest and willingness in
> the WMF and the chapters to share such information with each other?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
> (Note: this is a personal viewpoint, not necessarily that of WMUK.)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



--

Matthew Roth
Global Communications Manager
Wikimedia Foundation
+1.415.839.6885 ext 6635
www.wikimediafoundation.org
*https://donate.wikimedia.org*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Charles Andrès-2
In reply to this post by Sue Gardner-2
Sure, it's so much better to ask to one WMF staff to use his payed time to collect the mail and phone number of each chapters board member, whereas all of this could have been done efficiently with no cost on Internal wiki.

The problem is that "old" wikimedians continue to consider internal like a place to do lobbying or secret stuff, whereas new wikimedians just want a place to share efficiently informations that cannot be displayed publicly like for example draft agreement between a chapter and an institution!

There is millions way to improve the usage of donors money, and the position "no place to work together" is not one of these.

Charles


___________________________________________________________
Charles ANDRES, Chairman
"Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
www.wikimedia.ch
Skype: charles.andres.wmch
IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch

Le 3 avr. 2013 à 19:46, Sue Gardner <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> On 3 April 2013 03:34, Michael Peel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> So, rather than close the internal wiki, I'd like to propose a radical redesign and repurposing of it. Is there the interest and willingness in the WMF and the chapters to share such information with each other?
>
> I'd argue against this. From the perspective of the Wikimedia
> Foundation, I would rather staff bias towards putting information on
> public wikis wherever possible, and I'd worry that staff energy going
> into updating a closed private wiki would by necessity pull focus from
> public work. I'd argue for closing both the internal wiki and the
> internal mailing list: IMO there's nothing on either that needs to be
> confidential.
>
> Thanks,
> Sue
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Florence Devouard-3
Incidently... given that most people would not be willing to publicly
post their phone number and possibly other personal information... and
that a wiki is actually not necessarily the best place to do such a
thing, has it ever been considered to set up something dedicated to
actually host contact information ?

Florence

On 4/4/13 12:27 PM, Charles Andrès wrote:

> Sure, it's so much better to ask to one WMF staff to use his payed time to collect the mail and phone number of each chapters board member, whereas all of this could have been done efficiently with no cost on Internal wiki.
>
> The problem is that "old" wikimedians continue to consider internal like a place to do lobbying or secret stuff, whereas new wikimedians just want a place to share efficiently informations that cannot be displayed publicly like for example draft agreement between a chapter and an institution!
>
> There is millions way to improve the usage of donors money, and the position "no place to work together" is not one of these.
>
> Charles
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Charles ANDRES, Chairman
> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> www.wikimedia.ch
> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
>
> Le 3 avr. 2013 à 19:46, Sue Gardner <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> On 3 April 2013 03:34, Michael Peel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> So, rather than close the internal wiki, I'd like to propose a radical redesign and repurposing of it. Is there the interest and willingness in the WMF and the chapters to share such information with each other?
>>
>> I'd argue against this. From the perspective of the Wikimedia
>> Foundation, I would rather staff bias towards putting information on
>> public wikis wherever possible, and I'd worry that staff energy going
>> into updating a closed private wiki would by necessity pull focus from
>> public work. I'd argue for closing both the internal wiki and the
>> internal mailing list: IMO there's nothing on either that needs to be
>> confidential.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sue
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Federico Leva (Nemo)
In reply to this post by Charles Andrès-2
The question by Florence on contacts is still pending. :)
I know/think officewiki is used for most WMF internal contact info,
except emergency contact info hosted (also) elsewhere (or on dev'
mobiles :p ) for when the cluster is down. Something more general and
scalable would be nice.

Charles Andrès, 04/04/2013 12:27:
> [...] There is millions way to improve the usage of donors money, and the position "no place to work together" is not one of these.

Given that the thread is dormant (WMF board members nothing to say?), we
could maybe look at best practices around Wikimedia.
For instance, WMDE recently (2011) created a private wiki ("forum") for
its members, to foster discussion and collaboration within the
association (all of it: board, office, members). AFAICS, WMDE has always
used mainly Meta talk pages and the public list for their general
discussions, but the private wiki was an effective addition to broaden
participation. I see it's fairly active, with over 17k edits. It seems
that one «place to work together» is always a better solution than none.

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-3
On 4 April 2013 13:16, Florence Devouard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Incidently... given that most people would not be willing to publicly post
> their phone number and possibly other personal information... and that a
> wiki is actually not necessarily the best place to do such a thing, has it
> ever been considered to set up something dedicated to actually host contact
> information ?

Why do we need to share individual phone numbers? I'm no longer on a
chapter board, but when I was I don't think I would have appreciated
random people I don't know from other chapters phoning me
unexpectedly. I'd much rather they either called the main chapter
phone number (which is available publicly) and left me a message or
emailed me (using the "Email this user" function on the chapter wiki)
and asked when would be a good time to call and what number they
should call me on. As with most volunteers, I have to fit my voluntary
work around the rest of my life, so phone calls aren't a good way to
initiate a conversation.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Florence Devouard-3
On 4/8/13 7:18 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:

> On 4 April 2013 13:16, Florence Devouard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Incidently... given that most people would not be willing to publicly post
>> their phone number and possibly other personal information... and that a
>> wiki is actually not necessarily the best place to do such a thing, has it
>> ever been considered to set up something dedicated to actually host contact
>> information ?
>
> Why do we need to share individual phone numbers? I'm no longer on a
> chapter board, but when I was I don't think I would have appreciated
> random people I don't know from other chapters phoning me
> unexpectedly. I'd much rather they either called the main chapter
> phone number (which is available publicly) and left me a message or
> emailed me (using the "Email this user" function on the chapter wiki)
> and asked when would be a good time to call and what number they
> should call me on. As with most volunteers, I have to fit my voluntary
> work around the rest of my life, so phone calls aren't a good way to
> initiate a conversation.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>

I understand your position Thomas.

But favorite mode of communication is the individual choice of each of
us. We may share or not share our phone number. We have the choice.
Anyone can also add a note to say he prefers not to be contacted by
phone unless really necessary, or not at certain hours or certain days.

Why would you impose to others your own dislike ?

Not every chapter has a "main phone number" (often, it is the president
personal phone number). Why would the president becomes a human
answering machine for others ?
Last, I have shared my phone number with others quite liberally. I have
no memory of any abuse from fellow chapter members. When they do use the
phone, it is either because it is mega super urgent, or because the
topic can not be discussed by email or because the internet connexion is
not working.

Flo



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

metasj
In reply to this post by Michael Peel-4
Mike - fine points.

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Michael Peel
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is information within the Wikimedia movement that can't be shared publicly.
> # Agreements, particularly those with global impact, and/or where they affect more than one Wikimedia organisation.
Should be public where possible; some may need to be private for a time.

> There's also a lot of experience now with existing agreements that could be reused when new agreements are being
> written, e.g. for Wikimedians in Residences. Sadly, not all of these can be made publicly available (or at least, they haven't
> been to date).
I think many can, actually.  It just hasn't happened yet; requires
asking the right people for each agreement.

> # Press releases, prior to release
Yes.

> # Domain names. There is a list of these on internal already
Yes.

> # Contact information for the various organisations.
Can be public.  Some personal #s can be privat.e

> # Notices of sensitive activities. E.g. if there's an upcoming risk of law suits, infrastructure difficulties within organisations,
Yes.

If we carefully scope what's there, and review for material that
doesn't need (or no longer needs) that secrecy,  it can be useful.  I
think muc hof the material that is posted on smaller-group wikis
(committees, individual chapters, &c) could be shared among all
chapters and movement entities on the internal wiki.  If everyone
finds private things they currently work on which could benefit from
being shared on internal, it will find life and purpose.

Worth a discussion among people who use other private wikis.  I know I
would like to use *fewer* private wikis, not more.  [and right now I
only use the Board wiki.  But some of that material would be ok on
internal, and some of it - including the drafting of many of our
resolutions - would be fine to do in public on meta]


Florence writes:
>> has it ever been considered to set up something dedicated to actually host contact information ?
A wiki table works, and is simple, for small groups.   A more
structured solution could work for our entire larger social network...
we already use CiviCRM heavily in other ways.

Sam.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Everton Zanella Alvarenga-3
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-3
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Florence Devouard <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Incidently... given that most people would not be willing to publicly post
> their phone number and possibly other personal information... and that a
> wiki is actually not necessarily the best place to do such a thing, has it
> ever been considered to set up something dedicated to actually host contact
> information ?


https://contacts.wikimedia.org/

Voilà.

Interesting that you don't know.

--
Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom)
"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful
than a life spent doing nothing."
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Everton Zanella Alvarenga-3
In reply to this post by phoebe ayers-3
Hi Phoebe and all,

I am not say if saying this is wrong or brakes the confidentiality contract
I've signed as a contractor. My apologies if it is wrong, but I think it is
not. I am sorry to say there are some documents of projects I have been
working on that I believe could be done directly on meta or some other
public wiki. There are some cases, yes, some more elaborated document
should be done to be released in public, but I don't think it is always the
case.

I believe we are wasting resources and energy in some cases not using the
community intelligence and knowledge, even having very high qualified
professionals working on this documents, as it is the case I have seen so
far. Closed mailing lists, closed wikis, closed working groups, closed
meetings... all this doesn't make me feel comfortable, to be honest.

I don't want create a pandemonium here. My opinion here is just to share
one thing I've felt that can diminish the power of crowdsourcing we are all
used to and I believe we have to think ways to improve that.
Wikimediaworld it too complex, there is too much information, projects
and opinions
going on and it is really difficult to organize all that.

For instance, there is this https://collab.wikimedia.org What is this for?!
I have receive (maybe?) one e-mail about this wiki and once I've seen a lot
of crucial and important answers for the Brazil program were there. I
cannot understand why it is not public. Really. Just to you have an idea,
I've asked in December to have this collab (Collab of collaboration?) wiki
to be on the main page of office wiki, but no answer so far.

The organization has grown too fast and maybe it is time to rethink our
best practices and how we operate, analysing everything we are using,
creating a kind of guide, mainly for those professionals that will arrive?
If I am not wrong, how can we do that?

I love this from another group

"Running through all of our activities is a strong emphasis on *decentralized
collaboration*. In particular, a primary aim is to help others develop open
material as well as creating it ourselves. We believe that the future lies
in collaboration between a multitude of different groups and that *no one
group or organisation can, or should try to, “do it all*”. It is when we
work together that we are the strongest."

and I am not saying it is easy to implement it. But we have to be self
critical on how to achieve this, for those who agree it is a better way to
work.

Tom

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:39 PM, phoebe ayers <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> You're being snarky, but I am going to take this as a good-faith
> question....
>
> I have access to the office wiki, left-over from being a board member,
> though I do not edit there and have only accessed it a couple of times over
> the years. I think I can safely say without violating confidentiality that
> it is mainly used as a tool to run a discrete, physical, boring office. It
> is where you will find things like staff phone numbers, info on the
> employee health plans, how to send to the office printers, and how to
> submit an expense report.
>
> As on internal, there's also lots of outdated stuff, like old notes from
> 2008 staff meetings; there are scratchpad idea pages that probably could be
> elsewhere, and there are some pages about department functions and project
> drafts that I'm sure no one would mind being on meta, but much of the
> interesting stuff is public (the annual plan, the communications calendar),
> and as far as I can see with a quick scan there are not large-scale
> discussions happening there.
>
> So, back to the start of the thread: using a wiki effectively does seem
> like a scoping question, yes, and I think internal (and any other
> internal/private wiki) would benefit from specific scoping like Mike
> proposes; his suggestions seem reasonable to me. I think I can also say
> without violating confidentiality that almost all of the mail to the
> internal list in the last few months has not been discussion focused, but
> rather has been notices of chapter board elections, meetings and reports,
> and I would love to see all that traffic be public (even if it's on a
> separate list so not everyone has to get the notices if they're not
> interested) -- there's nothing inherently confidential about it, and it
> would be nice for that info to be easily findable.
>
> -- phoebe
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



--
Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom)
"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful
than a life spent doing nothing."
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Victor Grigas
From my perspective:

In my role as storyteller I conduct many personal interviews with Wikimedia
volunteers, donors and staff.

I have several pages of interviews and photos of volunteers and donors(!)
that have been gracious enough to share their story with me and the
WMF. Each person who has been interviewed as part of my role has signed a
legal release to 'share their story'. I keep the raw, unpolished interviews
on pages on the password protected:
https://office.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Stories knowing that they are
available only to myself and staff at the WMF. I use that raw material to
release polished works like this:
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Thank_You_All . During the course of an
interview, people sometimes say things that when reviewed later, they wish
they hadn't. Out of respect and decency for those interviewed, I want each
person alerted every time WMF plans to use their story, should that person
not want that information released. I won't 'hide' behind a legal waiver
and do whatever when someone shares a story with the WMF.

I also need to be able to share the interviews with others at WMF because
they may have instances when they need to illustrate something with a
personal story (that is my job) and it can be more convenient for them to
review these stories on an organized page than to have to ask me to be a
librarian for them and suggest a story.

Privacy is very important, and I have to take it seriously. I could remove
all the interviews from the office wiki and keep them offline, but I would
not feel comfortable making the material public without passing it by all
those interviewed first, which would take a lot of time to do, since I'm
nearing almost 2 years of interviews.

All this said, I am all in favor of making as much content as possible on
https://collab.wikimedia.org/ and https://office.wikimedia.org/  public.

Victor


On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Everton Zanella Alvarenga <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Phoebe and all,
>
> I am not say if saying this is wrong or brakes the confidentiality contract
> I've signed as a contractor. My apologies if it is wrong, but I think it is
> not. I am sorry to say there are some documents of projects I have been
> working on that I believe could be done directly on meta or some other
> public wiki. There are some cases, yes, some more elaborated document
> should be done to be released in public, but I don't think it is always the
> case.
>
> I believe we are wasting resources and energy in some cases not using the
> community intelligence and knowledge, even having very high qualified
> professionals working on this documents, as it is the case I have seen so
> far. Closed mailing lists, closed wikis, closed working groups, closed
> meetings... all this doesn't make me feel comfortable, to be honest.
>
> I don't want create a pandemonium here. My opinion here is just to share
> one thing I've felt that can diminish the power of crowdsourcing we are all
> used to and I believe we have to think ways to improve that.
> Wikimediaworld it too complex, there is too much information, projects
> and opinions
> going on and it is really difficult to organize all that.
>
> For instance, there is this https://collab.wikimedia.org What is this
> for?!
> I have receive (maybe?) one e-mail about this wiki and once I've seen a lot
> of crucial and important answers for the Brazil program were there. I
> cannot understand why it is not public. Really. Just to you have an idea,
> I've asked in December to have this collab (Collab of collaboration?) wiki
> to be on the main page of office wiki, but no answer so far.
>
> The organization has grown too fast and maybe it is time to rethink our
> best practices and how we operate, analysing everything we are using,
> creating a kind of guide, mainly for those professionals that will arrive?
> If I am not wrong, how can we do that?
>
> I love this from another group
>
> "Running through all of our activities is a strong emphasis on
> *decentralized
> collaboration*. In particular, a primary aim is to help others develop open
> material as well as creating it ourselves. We believe that the future lies
> in collaboration between a multitude of different groups and that *no one
> group or organisation can, or should try to, “do it all*”. It is when we
> work together that we are the strongest."
>
> and I am not saying it is easy to implement it. But we have to be self
> critical on how to achieve this, for those who agree it is a better way to
> work.
>
> Tom
>
> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:39 PM, phoebe ayers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > You're being snarky, but I am going to take this as a good-faith
> > question....
> >
> > I have access to the office wiki, left-over from being a board member,
> > though I do not edit there and have only accessed it a couple of times
> over
> > the years. I think I can safely say without violating confidentiality
> that
> > it is mainly used as a tool to run a discrete, physical, boring office.
> It
> > is where you will find things like staff phone numbers, info on the
> > employee health plans, how to send to the office printers, and how to
> > submit an expense report.
> >
> > As on internal, there's also lots of outdated stuff, like old notes from
> > 2008 staff meetings; there are scratchpad idea pages that probably could
> be
> > elsewhere, and there are some pages about department functions and
> project
> > drafts that I'm sure no one would mind being on meta, but much of the
> > interesting stuff is public (the annual plan, the communications
> calendar),
> > and as far as I can see with a quick scan there are not large-scale
> > discussions happening there.
> >
> > So, back to the start of the thread: using a wiki effectively does seem
> > like a scoping question, yes, and I think internal (and any other
> > internal/private wiki) would benefit from specific scoping like Mike
> > proposes; his suggestions seem reasonable to me. I think I can also say
> > without violating confidentiality that almost all of the mail to the
> > internal list in the last few months has not been discussion focused, but
> > rather has been notices of chapter board elections, meetings and reports,
> > and I would love to see all that traffic be public (even if it's on a
> > separate list so not everyone has to get the notices if they're not
> > interested) -- there's nothing inherently confidential about it, and it
> > would be nice for that info to be easily findable.
> >
> > -- phoebe
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom)
> "A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful
> than a life spent doing nothing."
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



--

*Victor Grigas*
Storyteller <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Knv6D6Thi0>
Wikimedia Foundation
[hidden email]
+1 (415) 839-6885 x 6773
149 New Montgomery Street 6th floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
https://donate.wikimedia.org/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Victor Grigas, 10/04/2013 19:22:
> I keep the raw, unpolished interviews
> on pages on the password protected:
> https://office.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Stories knowing that they are
> available only to myself and staff at the WMF.

What about a limited set of trusted wikimedians?

> I use that raw material to
> release polished works like this:
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Thank_You_All . During the course of an
> interview, people sometimes say things that when reviewed later, they wish
> they hadn't. Out of respect and decency for those interviewed, [...]
>
> Privacy is very important, and I have to take it seriously. [...]

All very right, just highlighting two passages to complement the
question above: respect and decency are not the same as privacy; would
this material be something that requires everyone with access to it
signing a NDA, or being a PII-handling designated officer (or whatever
the English name for the thing under EU laws)?

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Oliver Keyes-4
On 10 April 2013 18:48, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Victor Grigas, 10/04/2013 19:22:
>
>  I keep the raw, unpolished interviews
>> on pages on the password protected:
>> https://office.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Wikipedia_Stories<https://office.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Stories>knowing that they are
>> available only to myself and staff at the WMF.
>>
>
> What about a limited set of trusted wikimedians?
>
> Trusted to know the real names and backgrounds of other editors? There
should never be a situation where volunteers are read into that kind of
thing in a post-hoc fashion.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Oliver Keyes, 10/04/2013 22:25:

> On 10 April 2013 18:48, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
>
>> Victor Grigas, 10/04/2013 19:22:
>>
>>   I keep the raw, unpolished interviews
>>> on pages on the password protected:
>>> https://office.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Wikipedia_Stories<https://office.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Stories>knowing that they are
>>> available only to myself and staff at the WMF.
>>>
>>
>> What about a limited set of trusted wikimedians?
>
> Trusted to know the real names and backgrounds of other editors? There
> should never be a situation where volunteers are read into that kind of
> thing in a post-hoc fashion.

Are you speaking of yourself here? :)

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Oliver Keyes-4
> Are you speaking of yourself here? :)
>

As opposed to, speaking as a staffer? Well, I work for Product Development.
So the chances of me giving binding policy statements on privacy issues are
slim to none :).

Speaking personally: I can't think of a single good reason why Victor's
stuff should be released. Speaking as a staffer: I'd rather everyone and
their pet dog didn't have my phone number, even if we saw Everyone's
passport at one point :).  There's definitely stuff on officewiki that
should be more public (speaking just for my own work, there's a lot of
strategic planning there) but I'd argue the docs available on officewiki
don't accuratey represent the public availability *of* those docs; we can
see that docX exists on officewiki, and is to do with something the
communities care about, but that doesn't mean a concrete form of docX
wasn't then /released/ to the community for their perusal, consideration,
comment and vote.

An illustration here would be: I've got my engagement strategy for what
became Page Curation on officewiki. It's a place where I can write and
rewrite it, my bosses can check it for stupid, and if there *is* stupid we
catch it before it causes problems. Someone looking at that in isolation
would go "this should totally be public! It's about engagement and
deployment timetables,and we should be transparent about it". And we are
transparent about it - because the document later became public, in an
altered and finalised form. But the two aren't necessarily linked together,
which makes this rather opaque.

There are totally some docs on office-wiki that could do with more
publicity. But there are far more that are private - fully private - for a
good reason, and I'd imagine some of those that look ready for public
release were, in fact, released.

Apologies for the TL;DR rant :)


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Oliver Keyes, 10/04/2013 22:43:
>
>     Are you speaking of yourself here? :)
>
>
> As opposed to, speaking as a staffer? Well, I work for Product
> Development. So the chances of me giving binding policy statements on
> privacy issues are slim to none :).

No: as opposed to, a staffer that is also not a very active editor. :)
The part on personal identifying information is one I understand and
that's why I asked about it, but I don't think it should be on
officewiki either; the other part on editor background I didn't
understand, and I think staffer or editor is the same for that.

>
> Speaking personally: I can't think of a single good reason why Victor's
> stuff should be released. [...]

Neither I do. I only asked if they *require* the compartmentalisation
that e.g. Tom described – otherwise they could as well happen in a
slightly different context (like for instance "use the internal wiki
more", given that's the thread we're in).

>
> An illustration here would be: I've got my engagement strategy for what
> became Page Curation on officewiki. It's a place where I can write and
> rewrite it, my bosses can check it for stupid, and if there *is* stupid
> we catch it before it causes problems.

This is fine. Way better than Google Docs shared with few people and
then quickly lost!

> Someone looking at that in
> isolation would go "this should totally be public! It's about engagement
> and deployment timetables,and we should be transparent about it".

I really can't imagine who this naïve someone could be. :)

> And we
> are transparent about it - because the document later became public, in
> an altered and finalised form. But the two aren't necessarily linked
> together, which makes this rather opaque.
>
> There are totally some docs on office-wiki that could do with more
> publicity. But there are far more that are private - fully private - for
> a good reason, and I'd imagine some of those that look ready for public
> release were, in fact, released.

Again, I'm not the one arguing for a "bias towards putting information
on public wikis" for the sake of it, in this thread. ;-)

I know that some things are always going to be private, and I also think
that we're not a totalitarian state, so even we officially disallowed
anything to be private then people would just hide better (e.g.
documents on private gdocs rather than private wikis; or the good old
local hard disk + private email).

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Matthew Roth
I don't know that anyone else really wants another example, but I'll offer
a couple thoughts. On a personal level, I'm happy that my contact
information is not public, but I'm also happy that the other staff members
have access to it if they need to get in touch with me urgently.

The primary benefit of a closed wiki that I see from my work perspective is
for upcoming press launches with partners when we need to embargo the
information prior to the release date. The most common example is Wikipedia
Zero. We regularly prepare documents, like the Q&A that goes with the
launch, on Office Wiki and then copy it to Foundation Wiki once the press
release is public. We could just do it in Google Docs, but we do need to
keep this information private until the launch (obviously, we wouldn't be
able to manage the story if the press got to it before we wanted them to).
Our PR work is often also part of the contract signed with the partner and
is one of the primary values they see in the partnership, so they are
usually quite concerned with keeping a tight lock on the info until the
release date.

There are also a number of password registrations to the various social
media accounts we manage, the various admin keys for the press release
distribution list and to the various lists like Wikimedia Announce-l that
would also need to stay private in some capacity. Office Wiki proves useful
for that, but theoretically there could be another arrangement, I'm sure.

Of the other material that is in the Communications corner on Office Wiki,
almost all of it is links to public wikis, so it doesn't do much more than
provide an easy location for organizing the links. That could happen just
as easily on Meta or elsewhere.

-Matthew




On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Oliver Keyes, 10/04/2013 22:43:
>
>
>>     Are you speaking of yourself here? :)
>>
>>
>> As opposed to, speaking as a staffer? Well, I work for Product
>> Development. So the chances of me giving binding policy statements on
>> privacy issues are slim to none :).
>>
>
> No: as opposed to, a staffer that is also not a very active editor. :) The
> part on personal identifying information is one I understand and that's why
> I asked about it, but I don't think it should be on officewiki either; the
> other part on editor background I didn't understand, and I think staffer or
> editor is the same for that.
>
>
>> Speaking personally: I can't think of a single good reason why Victor's
>> stuff should be released. [...]
>>
>
> Neither I do. I only asked if they *require* the compartmentalisation that
> e.g. Tom described – otherwise they could as well happen in a slightly
> different context (like for instance "use the internal wiki more", given
> that's the thread we're in).
>
>
>
>> An illustration here would be: I've got my engagement strategy for what
>> became Page Curation on officewiki. It's a place where I can write and
>> rewrite it, my bosses can check it for stupid, and if there *is* stupid
>> we catch it before it causes problems.
>>
>
> This is fine. Way better than Google Docs shared with few people and then
> quickly lost!
>
>
>  Someone looking at that in
>> isolation would go "this should totally be public! It's about engagement
>> and deployment timetables,and we should be transparent about it".
>>
>
> I really can't imagine who this naïve someone could be. :)
>
>
>  And we
>> are transparent about it - because the document later became public, in
>> an altered and finalised form. But the two aren't necessarily linked
>> together, which makes this rather opaque.
>>
>> There are totally some docs on office-wiki that could do with more
>> publicity. But there are far more that are private - fully private - for
>> a good reason, and I'd imagine some of those that look ready for public
>> release were, in fact, released.
>>
>
> Again, I'm not the one arguing for a "bias towards putting information on
> public wikis" for the sake of it, in this thread. ;-)
>
> I know that some things are always going to be private, and I also think
> that we're not a totalitarian state, so even we officially disallowed
> anything to be private then people would just hide better (e.g. documents
> on private gdocs rather than private wikis; or the good old local hard disk
> + private email).
>
> Nemo
>
>
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> [hidden email].**org <[hidden email]>
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>



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www.wikimediafoundation.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Oliver Keyes-4
In reply to this post by Federico Leva (Nemo)
On 10 April 2013 22:07, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Oliver Keyes, 10/04/2013 22:43:
>
>
>>     Are you speaking of yourself here? :)
>>
>>
>> As opposed to, speaking as a staffer? Well, I work for Product
>> Development. So the chances of me giving binding policy statements on
>> privacy issues are slim to none :).
>>
>
> No: as opposed to, a staffer that is also not a very active editor. :) The
> part on personal identifying information is one I understand and that's why
> I asked about it, but I don't think it should be on officewiki either; the
> other part on editor background I didn't understand, and I think staffer or
> editor is the same for that.
>
> When I say "editor background" I mean things like their name, their
personal background - from those interviews I've seen, things like job and
location frequently come into it - so on and so forth. I see a fairly
substantive difference, there, in whether we give that information to
staffers (on a need-to-know basis) or decide to give it to volunteers who
are "trusted", for a given value of trusted.

>
>> Speaking personally: I can't think of a single good reason why Victor's
>> stuff should be released. [...]
>>
>
> Neither I do. I only asked if they *require* the compartmentalisation that
> e.g. Tom described – otherwise they could as well happen in a slightly
> different context (like for instance "use the internal wiki more", given
> that's the thread we're in).
>
> Yep; there's no reason we should be giving that sort of thing out to
random chapters people or trusted volunteers; they have no use case for it.

>
>
>> An illustration here would be: I've got my engagement strategy for what
>> became Page Curation on officewiki. It's a place where I can write and
>> rewrite it, my bosses can check it for stupid, and if there *is* stupid
>> we catch it before it causes problems.
>>
>
> This is fine. Way better than Google Docs shared with few people and then
> quickly lost!
>
> Agreed. Every time someone says "we can just use a google doc!" I groan
;p. It's like: you know, if only we *built* a collaborative document
editing too-wait.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Federico Leva (Nemo)
The problem of internal communication came up again at WMCON, but only
about internal-l, see the couple quick opinions expressed:
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2013/Documentation/Day_2/WMF_board#Charles:_We_need_Internal-l.2C_what_do_you_think.3F>

Oliver Keyes, 11/04/2013 17:33:
 > [...]
 >     Neither I do. I only asked if they *require* the
 >     compartmentalisation that e.g. Tom described – otherwise they could
 >     as well happen in a slightly different context (like for instance
 >     "use the internal wiki more", given that's the thread we're in).
 >
 > Yep; there's no reason we should be giving that sort of thing out to
 > random chapters people or trusted volunteers; they have no use case
for it.

"No reason to" is not a reason not to, so your "yes" means "no" given my
question. (And also by analogy, because most people in officewiki won't
have a use case for that stuff either.)

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Oliver Keyes-4
On 28 April 2013 09:49, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The problem of internal communication came up again at WMCON, but only
> about internal-l, see the couple quick opinions expressed: <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_**
> 2013/Documentation/Day_2/WMF_**board#Charles:_We_need_**
> Internal-l.2C_what_do_you_**think.3F<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2013/Documentation/Day_2/WMF_board#Charles:_We_need_Internal-l.2C_what_do_you_think.3F>
> >
>
> Oliver Keyes, 11/04/2013 17:33:
>
> > [...]
> >     Neither I do. I only asked if they *require* the
> >     compartmentalisation that e.g. Tom described – otherwise they could
> >     as well happen in a slightly different context (like for instance
> >     "use the internal wiki more", given that's the thread we're in).
> >
> > Yep; there's no reason we should be giving that sort of thing out to
> > random chapters people or trusted volunteers; they have no use case for
> it.
>
> "No reason to" is not a reason not to, so your "yes" means "no" given my
> question. (And also by analogy, because most people in officewiki won't
> have a use case for that stuff either.)
>
> When the information contains personal data, it is totally a reason not
to.



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal to use the internal wiki more

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Oliver Keyes, 29/04/2013 05:24:
>     "No reason to" is not a reason not to, so your "yes" means "no"
>     given my question. (And also by analogy, because most people in
>     officewiki won't have a use case for that stuff either.)
>
> When the information contains personal data, it is totally a reason not to.

If you really share people's personal data on officewiki, I'm very glad
I never participated to the interviews sessions at Wikimania.

Nemo

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