[Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

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[Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Chris Keating-2
Great! We are starting to have the conversation we need to have!

So: What is the purpose of the Wikimedia Conference?

This has never been clearly defined, in my view.

I certainly found attending last year useful as it was a chance to get to
know face-to-face people I only knew over email, to share some useful
experience of Wikimedia UK's with other chapters,  and  to get an insight
into how others were thinking, and have some meetings which needed to be
done face-to-face.

In general those are very useful things. But is that what the conference is
for?

Chris
 On 2 Apr 2014 17:17, "Cristian Consonni" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (my 2cents here, not speaking in any capacity besides my personal free
> will)
>
> 2014-04-02 14:32 GMT+02:00 Jens Best <[hidden email]>:
> > Have a nice time in Berlin, maybe I will drop by on some of the evening
> > events at least. :)
>
> May I say? Please come by also at the conference.
> I understand the point of having a rule (which we can decide if it is
> a strict rule or whatever) of 2+1 representatives because it helps to
> limit costs and it also assures that there isn't over-representation
> of an entities over some others (which are both good arguments, btw)
> but thinking of having a closed event were you can not come along if
> you are interested to do so and you happen to live nearby seems Deeply
> Wrong(TM) to me.
> For comparison all General Assemblies of Wikimedia Italia are public,
> everyone can come along and speak, of course when it comes to voting
> (e.g. board elections) only members have the right to vote. We always
> have some bystanders (this includes the occasional "I am painter, why
> I don't have my Wikipedia page?")  and, to date, our assemblies have
> never being flooded by strangers :-). Moreover, for the sake of "bias"
> and over-representation I think that this will not be of much more
> impact than the fact of chosing to hold the event itself in Berlin.
>
> Cristian
>
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Fæ
On 02/04/2014, Chris Keating <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Great! We are starting to have the conversation we need to have!
>
> So: What is the purpose of the Wikimedia Conference?
>
> This has never been clearly defined, in my view.
>
> I certainly found attending last year useful as it was a chance to get to
> know face-to-face people I only knew over email, to share some useful
> experience of Wikimedia UK's with other chapters,  and  to get an insight
> into how others were thinking, and have some meetings which needed to be
> done face-to-face.
>
> In general those are very useful things. But is that what the conference is
> for?
>
> Chris

This question neatly demonstrates the fundamental issue for me.

I am genuinely puzzled as to why, if nobody on the WMUK board (such as
the CEO or the current Chairman) is sure what the purpose of the
conference is, they should chose to invest the donor's money in
sending 5 trustees and 3 full time employees to it (presumably the
employees are being paid for their time rather than going as
volunteers).

If the key benefit claimed is to do social networking, it should be
recognized that all the same faces will be at Wikimania London in 4
months, and socializing is part of the defined benefits of Wikimania.

Considering the conference is a week away and it appears that flights
and accommodation have been paid for, re-framing this as good news,
rather than admitting it is a problem, appears to be replacing
pragmatism with sophistry.

Fae (writing from the grave)
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Nathan Awrich
In reply to this post by Chris Keating-2
A good starting point for discussion is the written material already out
there about the purpose of the event:

"*Wikimedia Conference 2014* is the annual meeting of all Wikimedia
chapters<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters>
, thematic organizations<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_thematic_organizations>
 and user groups <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups>,
board and staff members of the Wikimedia
Foundation<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation> as
well as other committees to discuss the future of the Wikimedia movement in
terms of collaboration, structures and organizational development."

There has been a "Future of Wikimedia Conference" page on Meta for some
time, although it has had limited input. Asaf Bartov wrote a little on the
talk page about the purpose of the conference:


   - An opportunity for Wikimedia movement organizations to meet
   face-to-face and share ideas about projects and practices and to discuss
   any unresolved issues that may have come up during the past year.
   - A venue for one of the quarterly Wikimedia Foundation Board of
   Trustees meetings and an opportunity for the Wikimedia Foundation Board of
   Trustees and Wikimedia movement organizations to meet and talk.
   - A venue for the Funds Dissemination Committee to meet to assess the
   funding proposals for Round 2 of the current year and provide
   recommendations on those proposals to the WMF Board.


It may make more sense to continue the discussion on the meta page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Sydney Poore
Point of information and a comment:

This year 2 members of the FDC will attend the conference as representatives of the FDC. The full FDC will not be attending any part of Wikimedia Conference this year because the date of the FDC meeting do not align with the conference.  Next year if possible I would like to see the two events scheduled together again because I see value in having the full FDC do a panel discussion with all interested people, especially people from affiliated organizations. Plus it makes it easier for the Board of Trustees and the FDC to interact, especially the board observers to the FDC which need to attend both meetings.

Sydney Poore

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 2, 2014, at 13:26, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A good starting point for discussion is the written material already out
> there about the purpose of the event:
>
> "*Wikimedia Conference 2014* is the annual meeting of all Wikimedia
> chapters<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters>
> , thematic organizations<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_thematic_organizations>
> and user groups <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups>,
> board and staff members of the Wikimedia
> Foundation<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation> as
> well as other committees to discuss the future of the Wikimedia movement in
> terms of collaboration, structures and organizational development."
>
> There has been a "Future of Wikimedia Conference" page on Meta for some
> time, although it has had limited input. Asaf Bartov wrote a little on the
> talk page about the purpose of the conference:
>
>
>   - An opportunity for Wikimedia movement organizations to meet
>   face-to-face and share ideas about projects and practices and to discuss
>   any unresolved issues that may have come up during the past year.
>   - A venue for one of the quarterly Wikimedia Foundation Board of
>   Trustees meetings and an opportunity for the Wikimedia Foundation Board of
>   Trustees and Wikimedia movement organizations to meet and talk.
>   - A venue for the Funds Dissemination Committee to meet to assess the
>   funding proposals for Round 2 of the current year and provide
>   recommendations on those proposals to the WMF Board.
>
>
> It may make more sense to continue the discussion on the meta page:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Jan-Bart de Vreede-3
In reply to this post by Fæ
Hi,

To provide some perspective. The Board of Trustees has traditionally had its Board meeting at the Wikimedia Conference. This year is the first year we decide to change that and have our board meeting a couple of weeks later so that we could actually attend the sessions and have more interaction with all the participants. Six of us will be going to Berlin because we feel that it is an incredible valuable conference.

Lets be clear: this is a different event than Wikimania. It is a time to meet and discuss governance issues with those that have been entrusted with them in our movement, it is a time to exchange organisational experiences and a time to look forward to possibilities for that part of the movement that chooses to organise itself in chapters or thematic organisations. And although the audience is probably a subset of the Wikimania audience the smaller setup allows for different interactions etc.

I have no opinion on the decision of certain organisations to send more people than expected, this is something that can be discussed for next year, and there will always be exceptions. But in general: these conferences, though expensive, really provide a place to learn how to be more effective with donor money rather than less through the sessions and the interaction. I am happy that many volunteers are able to invest their valuable time and am sure that they will get a great return on that investment (I notice that many chapters rotate participation throughout the years and that there are also familiar faces, and its great to see them both)

I am grateful to the German Chapter for hosting us this year, and also to all the volunteers who are willing to donate their time to participate. Looking forward to seeing you all next week!

Jan-Bart de Vreede
Chair
Wikimedia Board of Trustees


On 02 Apr 2014, at 19:15, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 02/04/2014, Chris Keating <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Great! We are starting to have the conversation we need to have!
>>
>> So: What is the purpose of the Wikimedia Conference?
>>
>> This has never been clearly defined, in my view.
>>
>> I certainly found attending last year useful as it was a chance to get to
>> know face-to-face people I only knew over email, to share some useful
>> experience of Wikimedia UK's with other chapters,  and  to get an insight
>> into how others were thinking, and have some meetings which needed to be
>> done face-to-face.
>>
>> In general those are very useful things. But is that what the conference is
>> for?
>>
>> Chris
>
> This question neatly demonstrates the fundamental issue for me.
>
> I am genuinely puzzled as to why, if nobody on the WMUK board (such as
> the CEO or the current Chairman) is sure what the purpose of the
> conference is, they should chose to invest the donor's money in
> sending 5 trustees and 3 full time employees to it (presumably the
> employees are being paid for their time rather than going as
> volunteers).
>
> If the key benefit claimed is to do social networking, it should be
> recognized that all the same faces will be at Wikimania London in 4
> months, and socializing is part of the defined benefits of Wikimania.
>
> Considering the conference is a week away and it appears that flights
> and accommodation have been paid for, re-framing this as good news,
> rather than admitting it is a problem, appears to be replacing
> pragmatism with sophistry.
>
> Fae (writing from the grave)
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Chris Keating-2
In reply to this post by Fæ
>
>
>
> I am genuinely puzzled as to why, if nobody on the WMUK board (such as
> the CEO or the current Chairman) is sure what the purpose of the
> conference is, they should chose to invest the donor's money in
> sending 5 trustees and 3 full time employees to it (presumably the
> employees are being paid for their time rather than going as
> volunteers).
>
>
Just to be clear, I know what the benefits we will get out of it are, and I
can tell you the direction that I would like the conference to take in
future; I'm just wondering whether others have the same perception.

This is not a new question, as Nathan has pointed out, and he is probably
right to say it is best to continue it here;
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference

Chris
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Cornelius Kibelka-2
Yes, finally the discussion we need!  Pity that it happens only one week
before the conference itself.

My point of view:
We have different types of conference: GLAMCamp, EduWiki, Wikimania,
whatever.

Beside Wikimania, which is quite a "fruit salad" of topics and themes and
seen as *the* gathering of the global Wikimedia community, all of thoses
confereces have quite a special, limited scope. I see the Wikimedia
Conference as the highly political, meta level conference. This is the only
meeting in the year where we can discuss governance, strategy, movement
politics issues only, excluding all the programmatic work. As it is the
only meeting of this type during the year, at least a part of the programme
team tried to keep all the sessions in this meta scope. We felt a need for
those topics, which can't be discussed at those other meetings.

Obviously, it doesn't seem to be so clear for many people. Maybe the
majority even thinks that we don't even need that type of conference. Who
knows.., all discussion adressing this issue fizzled out in the last three
past.

However, please think about this! It's important. At the conference we'll
have a special session about this, the session is called actually "Future
of the Wikimedia Conference". We need input from everyone to see how we
should continue and what should happen next year.

Best
Cornelius

----
Cornelius Kibelka

Twitter: @jaancornelius
Mobile:+351-91-9860232 (Vodafone PT)
German number currently offline




On 2 April 2014 19:16, Chris Keating <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >
> >
> >
> > I am genuinely puzzled as to why, if nobody on the WMUK board (such as
> > the CEO or the current Chairman) is sure what the purpose of the
> > conference is, they should chose to invest the donor's money in
> > sending 5 trustees and 3 full time employees to it (presumably the
> > employees are being paid for their time rather than going as
> > volunteers).
> >
> >
> Just to be clear, I know what the benefits we will get out of it are, and I
> can tell you the direction that I would like the conference to take in
> future; I'm just wondering whether others have the same perception.
>
> This is not a new question, as Nathan has pointed out, and he is probably
> right to say it is best to continue it here;
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Risker
I'm not sure that people think the conference is unnecessary; I think it
has value.  It is, however, the only one of all those listed for
which almost everyone is explicitly excluded and cannot attend - even
though I can think of several who have strong interest in movement
governance and strategy.  It's a heavily publicly discussed meeting to
which 99.9998% of Wikimedians  are unwelcome - and yes, that's the way it
comes across.

The movement has failed if the only way to participate in group discussions
on movement governance is to (1) create a chapter or thorg, (2) become an
executive or employee of one and (3) be granted authority to attend this
conference.  Those are very big hoops to jump through in order for
non-aligned Wikimedians and movement participants/supporters to participate
in the discussion.

Risker/anne







On 2 April 2014 14:32, Cornelius Kibelka <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, finally the discussion we need!  Pity that it happens only one week
> before the conference itself.
>
> My point of view:
> We have different types of conference: GLAMCamp, EduWiki, Wikimania,
> whatever.
>
> Beside Wikimania, which is quite a "fruit salad" of topics and themes and
> seen as *the* gathering of the global Wikimedia community, all of thoses
> confereces have quite a special, limited scope. I see the Wikimedia
> Conference as the highly political, meta level conference. This is the only
> meeting in the year where we can discuss governance, strategy, movement
> politics issues only, excluding all the programmatic work. As it is the
> only meeting of this type during the year, at least a part of the programme
> team tried to keep all the sessions in this meta scope. We felt a need for
> those topics, which can't be discussed at those other meetings.
>
> Obviously, it doesn't seem to be so clear for many people. Maybe the
> majority even thinks that we don't even need that type of conference. Who
> knows.., all discussion adressing this issue fizzled out in the last three
> past.
>
> However, please think about this! It's important. At the conference we'll
> have a special session about this, the session is called actually "Future
> of the Wikimedia Conference". We need input from everyone to see how we
> should continue and what should happen next year.
>
> Best
> Cornelius
>
> ----
> Cornelius Kibelka
>
> Twitter: @jaancornelius
> Mobile:+351-91-9860232 (Vodafone PT)
> German number currently offline
>
>
>
>
> On 2 April 2014 19:16, Chris Keating <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am genuinely puzzled as to why, if nobody on the WMUK board (such as
> > > the CEO or the current Chairman) is sure what the purpose of the
> > > conference is, they should chose to invest the donor's money in
> > > sending 5 trustees and 3 full time employees to it (presumably the
> > > employees are being paid for their time rather than going as
> > > volunteers).
> > >
> > >
> > Just to be clear, I know what the benefits we will get out of it are,
> and I
> > can tell you the direction that I would like the conference to take in
> > future; I'm just wondering whether others have the same perception.
> >
> > This is not a new question, as Nathan has pointed out, and he is probably
> > right to say it is best to continue it here;
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference
> >
> > Chris
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Balázs Viczián
In reply to this post by Cornelius Kibelka-2
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AFuture_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference&diff=5611433&oldid=5611349

imo.

Vince



2014-04-02 20:32 GMT+02:00 Cornelius Kibelka <[hidden email]>:

> Yes, finally the discussion we need!  Pity that it happens only one week
> before the conference itself.
>
> My point of view:
> We have different types of conference: GLAMCamp, EduWiki, Wikimania,
> whatever.
>
> Beside Wikimania, which is quite a "fruit salad" of topics and themes and
> seen as *the* gathering of the global Wikimedia community, all of thoses
> confereces have quite a special, limited scope. I see the Wikimedia
> Conference as the highly political, meta level conference. This is the only
> meeting in the year where we can discuss governance, strategy, movement
> politics issues only, excluding all the programmatic work. As it is the
> only meeting of this type during the year, at least a part of the programme
> team tried to keep all the sessions in this meta scope. We felt a need for
> those topics, which can't be discussed at those other meetings.
>
> Obviously, it doesn't seem to be so clear for many people. Maybe the
> majority even thinks that we don't even need that type of conference. Who
> knows.., all discussion adressing this issue fizzled out in the last three
> past.
>
> However, please think about this! It's important. At the conference we'll
> have a special session about this, the session is called actually "Future
> of the Wikimedia Conference". We need input from everyone to see how we
> should continue and what should happen next year.
>
> Best
> Cornelius
>
> ----
> Cornelius Kibelka
>
> Twitter: @jaancornelius
> Mobile:+351-91-9860232 (Vodafone PT)
> German number currently offline
>
>
>
>
> On 2 April 2014 19:16, Chris Keating <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am genuinely puzzled as to why, if nobody on the WMUK board (such as
> > > the CEO or the current Chairman) is sure what the purpose of the
> > > conference is, they should chose to invest the donor's money in
> > > sending 5 trustees and 3 full time employees to it (presumably the
> > > employees are being paid for their time rather than going as
> > > volunteers).
> > >
> > >
> > Just to be clear, I know what the benefits we will get out of it are,
> and I
> > can tell you the direction that I would like the conference to take in
> > future; I'm just wondering whether others have the same perception.
> >
> > This is not a new question, as Nathan has pointed out, and he is probably
> > right to say it is best to continue it here;
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference
> >
> > Chris
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Itzik Edri
In reply to this post by Chris Keating-2
What the purpose of this discussion? The program committee already
scheduled a session about the future of the WMCON. And as we are a week
before, and I believe it's too late to cancel flights and hotels booking,
nothing will probably going to be changed, even if there will be consensus
about the purpose of the conference.

And while it seem like the discussion is about WMUK's attendees only - I
must say I don't think this is the case. They are maybe the biggest
delegations (we may starts to change the term this year from
"representatives" to "delegation", which fit the case better), but not the
only ones. There are other chapters who sends more than the others.

The silence and the ignorance of the organizer team regarding their
decision on that is something which worries me more, I think.



On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Chris Keating <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Great! We are starting to have the conversation we need to have!
>
> So: What is the purpose of the Wikimedia Conference?
>
> This has never been clearly defined, in my view.
>
> I certainly found attending last year useful as it was a chance to get to
> know face-to-face people I only knew over email, to share some useful
> experience of Wikimedia UK's with other chapters,  and  to get an insight
> into how others were thinking, and have some meetings which needed to be
> done face-to-face.
>
> In general those are very useful things. But is that what the conference is
> for?
>
> Chris
>  On 2 Apr 2014 17:17, "Cristian Consonni" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > (my 2cents here, not speaking in any capacity besides my personal free
> > will)
> >
> > 2014-04-02 14:32 GMT+02:00 Jens Best <[hidden email]>:
> > > Have a nice time in Berlin, maybe I will drop by on some of the evening
> > > events at least. :)
> >
> > May I say? Please come by also at the conference.
> > I understand the point of having a rule (which we can decide if it is
> > a strict rule or whatever) of 2+1 representatives because it helps to
> > limit costs and it also assures that there isn't over-representation
> > of an entities over some others (which are both good arguments, btw)
> > but thinking of having a closed event were you can not come along if
> > you are interested to do so and you happen to live nearby seems Deeply
> > Wrong(TM) to me.
> > For comparison all General Assemblies of Wikimedia Italia are public,
> > everyone can come along and speak, of course when it comes to voting
> > (e.g. board elections) only members have the right to vote. We always
> > have some bystanders (this includes the occasional "I am painter, why
> > I don't have my Wikipedia page?")  and, to date, our assemblies have
> > never being flooded by strangers :-). Moreover, for the sake of "bias"
> > and over-representation I think that this will not be of much more
> > impact than the fact of chosing to hold the event itself in Berlin.
> >
> > Cristian
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Nicole Ebber
Itzik, I am sorry that I did not reply to this earlier. I am just kind
of baffled that we are having this discussion now, months after all
these questions where asked (see Future of the Wikimedia Conference)
and all the information about the scope and the slight loosening of
the attendee ratio have been put up on Meta. Following that, there
have been discussions about which groups to invite (recognised,
non-recognised), but not a single one about the number of attendees -
although it has always been asked for input.

Our main drive behind opening up was that we felt the 2(+1) rule is
kind of outdated, and it makes sense to have people sent those
representatives who they really believe need to be there. Either as a
contributing or a profiting attendee, but of course focussing on the
topics that are covered in the conference themes. This is also why my
colleagues from the event team only opened the registration _after_
the rough outline of the programme has been published by the programme
team.

As for the broader topic about the purpose, scope and future of the
WMCON, I think it does make sense to discuss this on-list (or better
wiki) before the event. An exchange of arguments and possible
solutions is welcome, those can be used to prepare for the session at
WMCON. I am definitely glad that we now have this discussion and I
like to hear more of people's thoughts.

As for the broader, broader topic that for example Risker mentions
above, I hope that the Chapters Dialogue will be able to provide
insights and food for thought. The presentation at the WMCON and the
extensive documentation that will be provided on-wiki afterwards, can
help foster these discussions on those movement related issues.

Again, I am glad that the pre-conference has now been initiated and
that we can use the following days to get in the right mood for the
conference weekend.

Thanks and best regards,
Nicole



On 2 April 2014 22:18, Itzik Edri <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What the purpose of this discussion? The program committee already
> scheduled a session about the future of the WMCON. And as we are a week
> before, and I believe it's too late to cancel flights and hotels booking,
> nothing will probably going to be changed, even if there will be consensus
> about the purpose of the conference.
>
> And while it seem like the discussion is about WMUK's attendees only - I
> must say I don't think this is the case. They are maybe the biggest
> delegations (we may starts to change the term this year from
> "representatives" to "delegation", which fit the case better), but not the
> only ones. There are other chapters who sends more than the others.
>
> The silence and the ignorance of the organizer team regarding their
> decision on that is something which worries me more, I think.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Chris Keating <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Great! We are starting to have the conversation we need to have!
>>
>> So: What is the purpose of the Wikimedia Conference?
>>
>> This has never been clearly defined, in my view.
>>
>> I certainly found attending last year useful as it was a chance to get to
>> know face-to-face people I only knew over email, to share some useful
>> experience of Wikimedia UK's with other chapters,  and  to get an insight
>> into how others were thinking, and have some meetings which needed to be
>> done face-to-face.
>>
>> In general those are very useful things. But is that what the conference is
>> for?
>>
>> Chris
>>  On 2 Apr 2014 17:17, "Cristian Consonni" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > (my 2cents here, not speaking in any capacity besides my personal free
>> > will)
>> >
>> > 2014-04-02 14:32 GMT+02:00 Jens Best <[hidden email]>:
>> > > Have a nice time in Berlin, maybe I will drop by on some of the evening
>> > > events at least. :)
>> >
>> > May I say? Please come by also at the conference.
>> > I understand the point of having a rule (which we can decide if it is
>> > a strict rule or whatever) of 2+1 representatives because it helps to
>> > limit costs and it also assures that there isn't over-representation
>> > of an entities over some others (which are both good arguments, btw)
>> > but thinking of having a closed event were you can not come along if
>> > you are interested to do so and you happen to live nearby seems Deeply
>> > Wrong(TM) to me.
>> > For comparison all General Assemblies of Wikimedia Italia are public,
>> > everyone can come along and speak, of course when it comes to voting
>> > (e.g. board elections) only members have the right to vote. We always
>> > have some bystanders (this includes the occasional "I am painter, why
>> > I don't have my Wikipedia page?")  and, to date, our assemblies have
>> > never being flooded by strangers :-). Moreover, for the sake of "bias"
>> > and over-representation I think that this will not be of much more
>> > impact than the fact of chosing to hold the event itself in Berlin.
>> >
>> > Cristian
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Nicole Ebber
Leiterin Internationales
Head of International Affairs

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0

http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Risker
While I don't think this discussion should change the process or the
attendance for this specific conference, particularly as it is just around
the corner, it would be useful to take some of these points into
consideration for future planning.

Risker/Anne


On 2 April 2014 17:08, Nicole Ebber <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Itzik, I am sorry that I did not reply to this earlier. I am just kind
> of baffled that we are having this discussion now, months after all
> these questions where asked (see Future of the Wikimedia Conference)
> and all the information about the scope and the slight loosening of
> the attendee ratio have been put up on Meta. Following that, there
> have been discussions about which groups to invite (recognised,
> non-recognised), but not a single one about the number of attendees -
> although it has always been asked for input.
>
> Our main drive behind opening up was that we felt the 2(+1) rule is
> kind of outdated, and it makes sense to have people sent those
> representatives who they really believe need to be there. Either as a
> contributing or a profiting attendee, but of course focussing on the
> topics that are covered in the conference themes. This is also why my
> colleagues from the event team only opened the registration _after_
> the rough outline of the programme has been published by the programme
> team.
>
> As for the broader topic about the purpose, scope and future of the
> WMCON, I think it does make sense to discuss this on-list (or better
> wiki) before the event. An exchange of arguments and possible
> solutions is welcome, those can be used to prepare for the session at
> WMCON. I am definitely glad that we now have this discussion and I
> like to hear more of people's thoughts.
>
> As for the broader, broader topic that for example Risker mentions
> above, I hope that the Chapters Dialogue will be able to provide
> insights and food for thought. The presentation at the WMCON and the
> extensive documentation that will be provided on-wiki afterwards, can
> help foster these discussions on those movement related issues.
>
> Again, I am glad that the pre-conference has now been initiated and
> that we can use the following days to get in the right mood for the
> conference weekend.
>
> Thanks and best regards,
> Nicole
>
>
>
> On 2 April 2014 22:18, Itzik Edri <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > What the purpose of this discussion? The program committee already
> > scheduled a session about the future of the WMCON. And as we are a week
> > before, and I believe it's too late to cancel flights and hotels booking,
> > nothing will probably going to be changed, even if there will be
> consensus
> > about the purpose of the conference.
> >
> > And while it seem like the discussion is about WMUK's attendees only - I
> > must say I don't think this is the case. They are maybe the biggest
> > delegations (we may starts to change the term this year from
> > "representatives" to "delegation", which fit the case better), but not
> the
> > only ones. There are other chapters who sends more than the others.
> >
> > The silence and the ignorance of the organizer team regarding their
> > decision on that is something which worries me more, I think.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Chris Keating <
> [hidden email]>wrote:
> >
> >> Great! We are starting to have the conversation we need to have!
> >>
> >> So: What is the purpose of the Wikimedia Conference?
> >>
> >> This has never been clearly defined, in my view.
> >>
> >> I certainly found attending last year useful as it was a chance to get
> to
> >> know face-to-face people I only knew over email, to share some useful
> >> experience of Wikimedia UK's with other chapters,  and  to get an
> insight
> >> into how others were thinking, and have some meetings which needed to be
> >> done face-to-face.
> >>
> >> In general those are very useful things. But is that what the
> conference is
> >> for?
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>  On 2 Apr 2014 17:17, "Cristian Consonni" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > (my 2cents here, not speaking in any capacity besides my personal free
> >> > will)
> >> >
> >> > 2014-04-02 14:32 GMT+02:00 Jens Best <[hidden email]>:
> >> > > Have a nice time in Berlin, maybe I will drop by on some of the
> evening
> >> > > events at least. :)
> >> >
> >> > May I say? Please come by also at the conference.
> >> > I understand the point of having a rule (which we can decide if it is
> >> > a strict rule or whatever) of 2+1 representatives because it helps to
> >> > limit costs and it also assures that there isn't over-representation
> >> > of an entities over some others (which are both good arguments, btw)
> >> > but thinking of having a closed event were you can not come along if
> >> > you are interested to do so and you happen to live nearby seems Deeply
> >> > Wrong(TM) to me.
> >> > For comparison all General Assemblies of Wikimedia Italia are public,
> >> > everyone can come along and speak, of course when it comes to voting
> >> > (e.g. board elections) only members have the right to vote. We always
> >> > have some bystanders (this includes the occasional "I am painter, why
> >> > I don't have my Wikipedia page?")  and, to date, our assemblies have
> >> > never being flooded by strangers :-). Moreover, for the sake of "bias"
> >> > and over-representation I think that this will not be of much more
> >> > impact than the fact of chosing to hold the event itself in Berlin.
> >> >
> >> > Cristian
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> Leiterin Internationales
> Head of International Affairs
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
>
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Nicole Ebber
Right, sorry, what I meant was that these arguments can be collected
for the preparation of the "Future of the WMCON" session at WMCON
itself, not for changing the current setting.

Nicole

On 2 April 2014 23:14, Risker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> While I don't think this discussion should change the process or the
> attendance for this specific conference, particularly as it is just around
> the corner, it would be useful to take some of these points into
> consideration for future planning.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
> On 2 April 2014 17:08, Nicole Ebber <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Itzik, I am sorry that I did not reply to this earlier. I am just kind
>> of baffled that we are having this discussion now, months after all
>> these questions where asked (see Future of the Wikimedia Conference)
>> and all the information about the scope and the slight loosening of
>> the attendee ratio have been put up on Meta. Following that, there
>> have been discussions about which groups to invite (recognised,
>> non-recognised), but not a single one about the number of attendees -
>> although it has always been asked for input.
>>
>> Our main drive behind opening up was that we felt the 2(+1) rule is
>> kind of outdated, and it makes sense to have people sent those
>> representatives who they really believe need to be there. Either as a
>> contributing or a profiting attendee, but of course focussing on the
>> topics that are covered in the conference themes. This is also why my
>> colleagues from the event team only opened the registration _after_
>> the rough outline of the programme has been published by the programme
>> team.
>>
>> As for the broader topic about the purpose, scope and future of the
>> WMCON, I think it does make sense to discuss this on-list (or better
>> wiki) before the event. An exchange of arguments and possible
>> solutions is welcome, those can be used to prepare for the session at
>> WMCON. I am definitely glad that we now have this discussion and I
>> like to hear more of people's thoughts.
>>
>> As for the broader, broader topic that for example Risker mentions
>> above, I hope that the Chapters Dialogue will be able to provide
>> insights and food for thought. The presentation at the WMCON and the
>> extensive documentation that will be provided on-wiki afterwards, can
>> help foster these discussions on those movement related issues.
>>
>> Again, I am glad that the pre-conference has now been initiated and
>> that we can use the following days to get in the right mood for the
>> conference weekend.
>>
>> Thanks and best regards,
>> Nicole
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 April 2014 22:18, Itzik Edri <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > What the purpose of this discussion? The program committee already
>> > scheduled a session about the future of the WMCON. And as we are a week
>> > before, and I believe it's too late to cancel flights and hotels booking,
>> > nothing will probably going to be changed, even if there will be
>> consensus
>> > about the purpose of the conference.
>> >
>> > And while it seem like the discussion is about WMUK's attendees only - I
>> > must say I don't think this is the case. They are maybe the biggest
>> > delegations (we may starts to change the term this year from
>> > "representatives" to "delegation", which fit the case better), but not
>> the
>> > only ones. There are other chapters who sends more than the others.
>> >
>> > The silence and the ignorance of the organizer team regarding their
>> > decision on that is something which worries me more, I think.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Chris Keating <
>> [hidden email]>wrote:
>> >
>> >> Great! We are starting to have the conversation we need to have!
>> >>
>> >> So: What is the purpose of the Wikimedia Conference?
>> >>
>> >> This has never been clearly defined, in my view.
>> >>
>> >> I certainly found attending last year useful as it was a chance to get
>> to
>> >> know face-to-face people I only knew over email, to share some useful
>> >> experience of Wikimedia UK's with other chapters,  and  to get an
>> insight
>> >> into how others were thinking, and have some meetings which needed to be
>> >> done face-to-face.
>> >>
>> >> In general those are very useful things. But is that what the
>> conference is
>> >> for?
>> >>
>> >> Chris
>> >>  On 2 Apr 2014 17:17, "Cristian Consonni" <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > (my 2cents here, not speaking in any capacity besides my personal free
>> >> > will)
>> >> >
>> >> > 2014-04-02 14:32 GMT+02:00 Jens Best <[hidden email]>:
>> >> > > Have a nice time in Berlin, maybe I will drop by on some of the
>> evening
>> >> > > events at least. :)
>> >> >
>> >> > May I say? Please come by also at the conference.
>> >> > I understand the point of having a rule (which we can decide if it is
>> >> > a strict rule or whatever) of 2+1 representatives because it helps to
>> >> > limit costs and it also assures that there isn't over-representation
>> >> > of an entities over some others (which are both good arguments, btw)
>> >> > but thinking of having a closed event were you can not come along if
>> >> > you are interested to do so and you happen to live nearby seems Deeply
>> >> > Wrong(TM) to me.
>> >> > For comparison all General Assemblies of Wikimedia Italia are public,
>> >> > everyone can come along and speak, of course when it comes to voting
>> >> > (e.g. board elections) only members have the right to vote. We always
>> >> > have some bystanders (this includes the occasional "I am painter, why
>> >> > I don't have my Wikipedia page?")  and, to date, our assemblies have
>> >> > never being flooded by strangers :-). Moreover, for the sake of "bias"
>> >> > and over-representation I think that this will not be of much more
>> >> > impact than the fact of chosing to hold the event itself in Berlin.
>> >> >
>> >> > Cristian
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> ,
>> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nicole Ebber
>> Leiterin Internationales
>> Head of International Affairs
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
>> Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
>>
>> http://wikimedia.de
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
>> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
>> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Nicole Ebber
Leiterin Internationales
Head of International Affairs

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0

http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

Risker
I appreciate your clarification, Nicole - thanks.

There is a certain irony in the fact that those who are making the argument
that there should be some rethinking of the future of the WMCON are all (as
best I can tell) people who will not be present.  I hope that those who are
present will be able to adequately voice ideas other than the status quo.

Risker/Anne


On 2 April 2014 17:17, Nicole Ebber <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Right, sorry, what I meant was that these arguments can be collected
> for the preparation of the "Future of the WMCON" session at WMCON
> itself, not for changing the current setting.
>
> Nicole
>
> On 2 April 2014 23:14, Risker <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > While I don't think this discussion should change the process or the
> > attendance for this specific conference, particularly as it is just
> around
> > the corner, it would be useful to take some of these points into
> > consideration for future planning.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> >
> >
> > On 2 April 2014 17:08, Nicole Ebber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Itzik, I am sorry that I did not reply to this earlier. I am just kind
> >> of baffled that we are having this discussion now, months after all
> >> these questions where asked (see Future of the Wikimedia Conference)
> >> and all the information about the scope and the slight loosening of
> >> the attendee ratio have been put up on Meta. Following that, there
> >> have been discussions about which groups to invite (recognised,
> >> non-recognised), but not a single one about the number of attendees -
> >> although it has always been asked for input.
> >>
> >> Our main drive behind opening up was that we felt the 2(+1) rule is
> >> kind of outdated, and it makes sense to have people sent those
> >> representatives who they really believe need to be there. Either as a
> >> contributing or a profiting attendee, but of course focussing on the
> >> topics that are covered in the conference themes. This is also why my
> >> colleagues from the event team only opened the registration _after_
> >> the rough outline of the programme has been published by the programme
> >> team.
> >>
> >> As for the broader topic about the purpose, scope and future of the
> >> WMCON, I think it does make sense to discuss this on-list (or better
> >> wiki) before the event. An exchange of arguments and possible
> >> solutions is welcome, those can be used to prepare for the session at
> >> WMCON. I am definitely glad that we now have this discussion and I
> >> like to hear more of people's thoughts.
> >>
> >> As for the broader, broader topic that for example Risker mentions
> >> above, I hope that the Chapters Dialogue will be able to provide
> >> insights and food for thought. The presentation at the WMCON and the
> >> extensive documentation that will be provided on-wiki afterwards, can
> >> help foster these discussions on those movement related issues.
> >>
> >> Again, I am glad that the pre-conference has now been initiated and
> >> that we can use the following days to get in the right mood for the
> >> conference weekend.
> >>
> >> Thanks and best regards,
> >> Nicole
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2 April 2014 22:18, Itzik Edri <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> > What the purpose of this discussion? The program committee already
> >> > scheduled a session about the future of the WMCON. And as we are a
> week
> >> > before, and I believe it's too late to cancel flights and hotels
> booking,
> >> > nothing will probably going to be changed, even if there will be
> >> consensus
> >> > about the purpose of the conference.
> >> >
> >> > And while it seem like the discussion is about WMUK's attendees only
> - I
> >> > must say I don't think this is the case. They are maybe the biggest
> >> > delegations (we may starts to change the term this year from
> >> > "representatives" to "delegation", which fit the case better), but not
> >> the
> >> > only ones. There are other chapters who sends more than the others.
> >> >
> >> > The silence and the ignorance of the organizer team regarding their
> >> > decision on that is something which worries me more, I think.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Chris Keating <
> >> [hidden email]>wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Great! We are starting to have the conversation we need to have!
> >> >>
> >> >> So: What is the purpose of the Wikimedia Conference?
> >> >>
> >> >> This has never been clearly defined, in my view.
> >> >>
> >> >> I certainly found attending last year useful as it was a chance to
> get
> >> to
> >> >> know face-to-face people I only knew over email, to share some useful
> >> >> experience of Wikimedia UK's with other chapters,  and  to get an
> >> insight
> >> >> into how others were thinking, and have some meetings which needed
> to be
> >> >> done face-to-face.
> >> >>
> >> >> In general those are very useful things. But is that what the
> >> conference is
> >> >> for?
> >> >>
> >> >> Chris
> >> >>  On 2 Apr 2014 17:17, "Cristian Consonni" <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > (my 2cents here, not speaking in any capacity besides my personal
> free
> >> >> > will)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 2014-04-02 14:32 GMT+02:00 Jens Best <[hidden email]>:
> >> >> > > Have a nice time in Berlin, maybe I will drop by on some of the
> >> evening
> >> >> > > events at least. :)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > May I say? Please come by also at the conference.
> >> >> > I understand the point of having a rule (which we can decide if it
> is
> >> >> > a strict rule or whatever) of 2+1 representatives because it helps
> to
> >> >> > limit costs and it also assures that there isn't
> over-representation
> >> >> > of an entities over some others (which are both good arguments,
> btw)
> >> >> > but thinking of having a closed event were you can not come along
> if
> >> >> > you are interested to do so and you happen to live nearby seems
> Deeply
> >> >> > Wrong(TM) to me.
> >> >> > For comparison all General Assemblies of Wikimedia Italia are
> public,
> >> >> > everyone can come along and speak, of course when it comes to
> voting
> >> >> > (e.g. board elections) only members have the right to vote. We
> always
> >> >> > have some bystanders (this includes the occasional "I am painter,
> why
> >> >> > I don't have my Wikipedia page?")  and, to date, our assemblies
> have
> >> >> > never being flooded by strangers :-). Moreover, for the sake of
> "bias"
> >> >> > and over-representation I think that this will not be of much more
> >> >> > impact than the fact of chosing to hold the event itself in Berlin.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Cristian
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Nicole Ebber
> >> Leiterin Internationales
> >> Head of International Affairs
> >>
> >> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> >> Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
> >>
> >> http://wikimedia.de
> >>
> >> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> >> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> >> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> >> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> Leiterin Internationales
> Head of International Affairs
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
>
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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