[Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

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[Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Kirill Lokshin
Hi everyone!

I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized
Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Wikimedia Community User Group
Wales) [1] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to promote the
Wikimedia movement in Wales and support the development of Wikimedia
projects and content in the Welsh language.

Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!

Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Wales
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Shlomi Fish
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:32:34 -0400
Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi everyone!
>
> I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized
> Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Wikimedia Community User Group
> Wales) [1] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to promote the
> Wikimedia movement in Wales and support the development of Wikimedia
> projects and content in the Welsh language.
>
> Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
>

congratulations!

> Regards,
> Kirill Lokshin
> Chair, Affiliations Committee
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Wales
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:
> [hidden email] Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/

Windows Update doesn’t.
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Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Philip Kopetzky
Hi Kirill!

It would be really helpful to outline these kind of decisions with
arguments/deliberations that AffCom decided to follow, considering that
this sets a precedence in the worldwide community. For example, UG Wales
states that they "cooperate with and represent Wikimedia UK in Wales" -
does this mean that we are now accepting UGs within chapters? Is this UG
supposed to be able to apply for grants, despite its overlap with WMUK?

Best,
Philip



On 11 March 2018 at 15:44, Shlomi Fish <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:32:34 -0400
> Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized
> > Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Wikimedia Community User Group
> > Wales) [1] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to promote the
> > Wikimedia movement in Wales and support the development of Wikimedia
> > projects and content in the Welsh language.
> >
> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
> >
>
> congratulations!
>
> > Regards,
> > Kirill Lokshin
> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> >
> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Wales
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:
> > [hidden email] Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
> My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/
>
> Windows Update doesn’t.
>     — http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Windows-Update/
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Fæ
Support the request that AffCom share their understanding of the scope
and authority of the announced User Group.

From the wording of "represent Wikimedia UK in Wales"[1], the UG is
not independent of WMUK and consequently acts as a Chapter subsidiary.
As far as I am aware, there is no other regional based UG which does
this.

As a corollary, the representation has legal implications for UK
Charity. WMUK must have both responsibility and the authority to
monitor and control how they are represented by the UG. It is not
clear from the meta web page or the community vote how this will work,
apart from the implicit assumption that funding paid to UG projects is
effectively managed as a WMUK continuing programme. Presumably the UG
will not be requesting funds from the WMF or via the FDC process
separate from WMUK's FDC procedure.

The original vote at the Welsh Wikipedia compared the aims to that of
the Basque UG.[2] However based on their scope, the Basque UG does not
officially represent any other affiliate or Chapter.

Links
1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Wales
2. https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicipedia:Sefydlu_Gr%C5%B5p_Defnyddwyr_Wicimedia

On 19 March 2018 at 00:10, Philip Kopetzky <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Kirill!
>
> It would be really helpful to outline these kind of decisions with
> arguments/deliberations that AffCom decided to follow, considering that
> this sets a precedence in the worldwide community. For example, UG Wales
> states that they "cooperate with and represent Wikimedia UK in Wales" -
> does this mean that we are now accepting UGs within chapters? Is this UG
> supposed to be able to apply for grants, despite its overlap with WMUK?
>
> Best,
> Philip
>
>
>
> On 11 March 2018 at 15:44, Shlomi Fish <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:32:34 -0400
>> Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi everyone!
>> >
>> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized
>> > Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Wikimedia Community User Group
>> > Wales) [1] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to promote the
>> > Wikimedia movement in Wales and support the development of Wikimedia
>> > projects and content in the Welsh language.
>> >
>> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
>> >
>>
>> congratulations!
>>
>> > Regards,
>> > Kirill Lokshin
>> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
>> >
>> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Wales
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:
>> > [hidden email] Unsubscribe:
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
>> My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/
>>

--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Gnangarra
Wikimedia Australia also be interested in clarity on scope and over lap
with WMUK activities as well as the legalities and implications to WMUK tax
and charity status.

 WMAU has its own semi autonomous groups in locations around Australia the
implications on WMAU charity and tax status should one these groups be
registered as WMF UG would be complex and significant.

On 20 March 2018 at 21:11, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Support the request that AffCom share their understanding of the scope
> and authority of the announced User Group.
>
> From the wording of "represent Wikimedia UK in Wales"[1], the UG is
> not independent of WMUK and consequently acts as a Chapter subsidiary.
> As far as I am aware, there is no other regional based UG which does
> this.
>
> As a corollary, the representation has legal implications for UK
> Charity. WMUK must have both responsibility and the authority to
> monitor and control how they are represented by the UG. It is not
> clear from the meta web page or the community vote how this will work,
> apart from the implicit assumption that funding paid to UG projects is
> effectively managed as a WMUK continuing programme. Presumably the UG
> will not be requesting funds from the WMF or via the FDC process
> separate from WMUK's FDC procedure.
>
> The original vote at the Welsh Wikipedia compared the aims to that of
> the Basque UG.[2] However based on their scope, the Basque UG does not
> officially represent any other affiliate or Chapter.
>
> Links
> 1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Wales
> 2. https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicipedia:Sefydlu_Gr%C5%B5p_
> Defnyddwyr_Wicimedia
>
> On 19 March 2018 at 00:10, Philip Kopetzky <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hi Kirill!
> >
> > It would be really helpful to outline these kind of decisions with
> > arguments/deliberations that AffCom decided to follow, considering that
> > this sets a precedence in the worldwide community. For example, UG Wales
> > states that they "cooperate with and represent Wikimedia UK in Wales" -
> > does this mean that we are now accepting UGs within chapters? Is this UG
> > supposed to be able to apply for grants, despite its overlap with WMUK?
> >
> > Best,
> > Philip
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11 March 2018 at 15:44, Shlomi Fish <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:32:34 -0400
> >> Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi everyone!
> >> >
> >> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has
> recognized
> >> > Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Wikimedia Community User
> Group
> >> > Wales) [1] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to promote the
> >> > Wikimedia movement in Wales and support the development of Wikimedia
> >> > projects and content in the Welsh language.
> >> >
> >> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
> >> >
> >>
> >> congratulations!
> >>
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Kirill Lokshin
> >> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> >> >
> >> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_
> Group_Wales
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:
> >> > [hidden email] Unsubscribe:
> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
> >> My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/
> >>
>
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



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WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), *Never Again:
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here
<https://uwap.uwa.edu.au/products/never-again-reflections-on-environmental-responsibility-after-roe-8>
.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Kirill Lokshin
In reply to this post by Philip Kopetzky
Hi Philip,

The idea of local or regional user groups coexisting with a national
chapter isn't a new one; in fact, it was one of the principal scenarios
that was considered when the concept of user groups was first developed.
There are many such user groups already in existence, including local
groups that collaborate with Wikimedia India, Wikimedia Russia, and other
chapters, and we are not aware of any significant problems in this regard.

Having said that: as part of our ongoing movement strategy-related
activities, the Affiliations Committee is taking a deeper look at what
overlapping and intersecting affiliate scopes and structures might look
like in the future, and whether our current understanding of such scenarios
is effective and sustainable.  I would anticipate that we'll be releasing
additional information on our initial thoughts in this area, and our plans
for community consultations around those thoughts, in the coming months.

Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 6:10 PM, Philip Kopetzky <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Kirill!
>
> It would be really helpful to outline these kind of decisions with
> arguments/deliberations that AffCom decided to follow, considering that
> this sets a precedence in the worldwide community. For example, UG Wales
> states that they "cooperate with and represent Wikimedia UK in Wales" -
> does this mean that we are now accepting UGs within chapters? Is this UG
> supposed to be able to apply for grants, despite its overlap with WMUK?
>
> Best,
> Philip
>
>
>
> On 11 March 2018 at 15:44, Shlomi Fish <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:32:34 -0400
> > Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi everyone!
> > >
> > > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has
> recognized
> > > Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Wikimedia Community User Group
> > > Wales) [1] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to promote the
> > > Wikimedia movement in Wales and support the development of Wikimedia
> > > projects and content in the Welsh language.
> > >
> > > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
> > >
> >
> > congratulations!
> >
> > > Regards,
> > > Kirill Lokshin
> > > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> > >
> > > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_
> Group_Wales
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:
> > > [hidden email] Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> > --
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
> > My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/
> >
> > Windows Update doesn’t.
> >     — http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Windows-Update/
> >
> > Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply
> .
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Kirill Lokshin
In reply to this post by Fæ
Descriptions of user group activities on Meta shouldn't be interpreted as
legal documents under UK law (or any other legal code, for that matter).

Any questions regarding potential legal implications for Wikimedia UK
should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.

Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:11 AM, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Support the request that AffCom share their understanding of the scope
> and authority of the announced User Group.
>
> From the wording of "represent Wikimedia UK in Wales"[1], the UG is
> not independent of WMUK and consequently acts as a Chapter subsidiary.
> As far as I am aware, there is no other regional based UG which does
> this.
>
> As a corollary, the representation has legal implications for UK
> Charity. WMUK must have both responsibility and the authority to
> monitor and control how they are represented by the UG. It is not
> clear from the meta web page or the community vote how this will work,
> apart from the implicit assumption that funding paid to UG projects is
> effectively managed as a WMUK continuing programme. Presumably the UG
> will not be requesting funds from the WMF or via the FDC process
> separate from WMUK's FDC procedure.
>
> The original vote at the Welsh Wikipedia compared the aims to that of
> the Basque UG.[2] However based on their scope, the Basque UG does not
> officially represent any other affiliate or Chapter.
>
> Links
> 1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Wales
> 2. https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicipedia:Sefydlu_Gr%C5%B5p_
> Defnyddwyr_Wicimedia
>
> On 19 March 2018 at 00:10, Philip Kopetzky <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hi Kirill!
> >
> > It would be really helpful to outline these kind of decisions with
> > arguments/deliberations that AffCom decided to follow, considering that
> > this sets a precedence in the worldwide community. For example, UG Wales
> > states that they "cooperate with and represent Wikimedia UK in Wales" -
> > does this mean that we are now accepting UGs within chapters? Is this UG
> > supposed to be able to apply for grants, despite its overlap with WMUK?
> >
> > Best,
> > Philip
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11 March 2018 at 15:44, Shlomi Fish <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:32:34 -0400
> >> Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi everyone!
> >> >
> >> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has
> recognized
> >> > Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Wikimedia Community User
> Group
> >> > Wales) [1] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to promote the
> >> > Wikimedia movement in Wales and support the development of Wikimedia
> >> > projects and content in the Welsh language.
> >> >
> >> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
> >> >
> >>
> >> congratulations!
> >>
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Kirill Lokshin
> >> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> >> >
> >> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_
> Group_Wales
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:
> >> > [hidden email] Unsubscribe:
> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
> >> My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/
> >>
>
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Isaac Olatunde
One of the objectives of the group is to "cooperate with and represent
Wikimedia UK in Wales". This is not the same as "We legally represent
Wikimedia UK in Wales". User groups does not legally  represent the WMF and
or any chapter. If a group claim they represent a chapter in a state or
district, AffCom may ask for clarification from the group representatives.
If the response is that "we do not legally represent the chapter ", AffCom
will have no choice than to approve their application if they meet the
basic requirements for recognition.

Regards,

Isaac.

On Mar 20, 2018 4:04 PM, "Kirill Lokshin" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Descriptions of user group activities on Meta shouldn't be interpreted as
legal documents under UK law (or any other legal code, for that matter).

Any questions regarding potential legal implications for Wikimedia UK
should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.

Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:11 AM, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Support the request that AffCom share their understanding of the scope
> and authority of the announced User Group.
>
> From the wording of "represent Wikimedia UK in Wales"[1], the UG is
> not independent of WMUK and consequently acts as a Chapter subsidiary.
> As far as I am aware, there is no other regional based UG which does
> this.
>
> As a corollary, the representation has legal implications for UK
> Charity. WMUK must have both responsibility and the authority to
> monitor and control how they are represented by the UG. It is not
> clear from the meta web page or the community vote how this will work,
> apart from the implicit assumption that funding paid to UG projects is
> effectively managed as a WMUK continuing programme. Presumably the UG
> will not be requesting funds from the WMF or via the FDC process
> separate from WMUK's FDC procedure.
>
> The original vote at the Welsh Wikipedia compared the aims to that of
> the Basque UG.[2] However based on their scope, the Basque UG does not
> officially represent any other affiliate or Chapter.
>
> Links
> 1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Wales
> 2. https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicipedia:Sefydlu_Gr%C5%B5p_
> Defnyddwyr_Wicimedia
>
> On 19 March 2018 at 00:10, Philip Kopetzky <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hi Kirill!
> >
> > It would be really helpful to outline these kind of decisions with
> > arguments/deliberations that AffCom decided to follow, considering that
> > this sets a precedence in the worldwide community. For example, UG Wales
> > states that they "cooperate with and represent Wikimedia UK in Wales" -
> > does this mean that we are now accepting UGs within chapters? Is this UG
> > supposed to be able to apply for grants, despite its overlap with WMUK?
> >
> > Best,
> > Philip
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11 March 2018 at 15:44, Shlomi Fish <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:32:34 -0400
> >> Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi everyone!
> >> >
> >> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has
> recognized
> >> > Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Wikimedia Community User
> Group
> >> > Wales) [1] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to promote the
> >> > Wikimedia movement in Wales and support the development of Wikimedia
> >> > projects and content in the Welsh language.
> >> >
> >> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
> >> >
> >>
> >> congratulations!
> >>
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Kirill Lokshin
> >> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> >> >
> >> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_
> Group_Wales
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:
> >> > [hidden email] Unsubscribe:
> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
> >> My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/
> >>
>
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Fæ
In reply to this post by Kirill Lokshin
On 20 March 2018 at 15:03, Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Descriptions of user group activities on Meta shouldn't be interpreted as
> legal documents under UK law (or any other legal code, for that matter).

Hi Kirill,

In the spirit of an open and transparent process, could you please
provide a link to the scope of the new approved User Group is
published, as the one on Meta is not the one that AffCom reviewed with
the UG application?

> Any questions regarding potential legal implications for Wikimedia UK
> should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.

This brush-off is surprising, with the clear implication that AffCom
has not approached WMUK with any question. I was mistaken in believing
that AffCom had a responsibility to consider obvious legal
implications, before approving a User Group that is granted the right
to use official logos and the name "Wikipedia" and its language
variants when advertising their events. It is disappointing to see
that AffCom does not see their official process as needing to address
these areas, which may well be a barrier to direct funding, legal
recognition or represent a risk to other named pre-existing Affiliates
within the scope of the proposed new UG.

> Regards,
> Kirill Lokshin
> Chair, Affiliations Committee

Thanks,
Fae, volunteer
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:11 AM, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Support the request that AffCom share their understanding of the scope
>> and authority of the announced User Group.
>>
>> From the wording of "represent Wikimedia UK in Wales"[1], the UG is
>> not independent of WMUK and consequently acts as a Chapter subsidiary.
>> As far as I am aware, there is no other regional based UG which does
>> this.
>>
>> As a corollary, the representation has legal implications for UK
>> Charity. WMUK must have both responsibility and the authority to
>> monitor and control how they are represented by the UG. It is not
>> clear from the meta web page or the community vote how this will work,
>> apart from the implicit assumption that funding paid to UG projects is
>> effectively managed as a WMUK continuing programme. Presumably the UG
>> will not be requesting funds from the WMF or via the FDC process
>> separate from WMUK's FDC procedure.
>>
>> The original vote at the Welsh Wikipedia compared the aims to that of
>> the Basque UG.[2] However based on their scope, the Basque UG does not
>> officially represent any other affiliate or Chapter.
>>
>> Links
>> 1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Wales
>> 2. https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicipedia:Sefydlu_Gr%C5%B5p_
>> Defnyddwyr_Wicimedia
>>
>> On 19 March 2018 at 00:10, Philip Kopetzky <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Kirill!
>> >
>> > It would be really helpful to outline these kind of decisions with
>> > arguments/deliberations that AffCom decided to follow, considering that
>> > this sets a precedence in the worldwide community. For example, UG Wales
>> > states that they "cooperate with and represent Wikimedia UK in Wales" -
>> > does this mean that we are now accepting UGs within chapters? Is this UG
>> > supposed to be able to apply for grants, despite its overlap with WMUK?
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Philip
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11 March 2018 at 15:44, Shlomi Fish <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:32:34 -0400
>> >> Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Hi everyone!
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has
>> recognized
>> >> > Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Wikimedia Community User
>> Group
>> >> > Wales) [1] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to promote the
>> >> > Wikimedia movement in Wales and support the development of Wikimedia
>> >> > projects and content in the Welsh language.
>> >> >
>> >> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> congratulations!
>> >>
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Kirill Lokshin
>> >> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
>> >> >
>> >> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_
>> Group_Wales
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:
>> >> > [hidden email] Unsubscribe:
>> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
>> >> My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/
>> >>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Kirill Lokshin
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 20 March 2018 at 15:03, Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Descriptions of user group activities on Meta shouldn't be interpreted as
> > legal documents under UK law (or any other legal code, for that matter).
>
> Hi Kirill,
>
> In the spirit of an open and transparent process, could you please
> provide a link to the scope of the new approved User Group is
> published, as the one on Meta is not the one that AffCom reviewed with
> the UG application?
>

The Affiliations Committee publishes all of our application review and
approval resolutions on Meta; the one for the group in question can be
found at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recognition_Grŵp_Defnyddwyr_Cymuned_Wicimedia_Cymru
.


> > Any questions regarding potential legal implications for Wikimedia UK
> > should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.
>
> This brush-off is surprising, with the clear implication that AffCom
> has not approached WMUK with any question. I was mistaken in believing
> that AffCom had a responsibility to consider obvious legal
> implications, before approving a User Group that is granted the right
> to use official logos and the name "Wikipedia" and its language
> variants when advertising their events. It is disappointing to see
> that AffCom does not see their official process as needing to address
> these areas, which may well be a barrier to direct funding, legal
> recognition or represent a risk to other named pre-existing Affiliates
> within the scope of the proposed new UG.
>

Your implication is entirely incorrect; AffCom consulted with -- and
received an endorsement from -- Wikimedia UK prior to approving the user
group.  However, we are neither experts in UK charity law nor empowered to
speak on behalf of Wikimedia UK; consequently, any questions regarding the
chapter's legal position should be posed to the chapter, not to us.

Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Fæ
On 20 March 2018 at 15:36, Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 20 March 2018 at 15:03, Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Descriptions of user group activities on Meta shouldn't be interpreted as
>> > legal documents under UK law (or any other legal code, for that matter).
>>
>> Hi Kirill,
>>
>> In the spirit of an open and transparent process, could you please
>> provide a link to the scope of the new approved User Group is
>> published, as the one on Meta is not the one that AffCom reviewed with
>> the UG application?
>>
>
> The Affiliations Committee publishes all of our application review and
> approval resolutions on Meta; the one for the group in question can be
> found at
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recognition_Grŵp_Defnyddwyr_Cymuned_Wicimedia_Cymru

Thanks for the link, that's great. It would be super to include a link
to the relevant resolution when making announcements.

Unfortunately your emails seem in conflict with the resolution. The
statement by the Affiliations Committee links to the meta page to
define the reviewed scope, the words used are "The scope of the group,
which can be found on their meta page" and then gives a link to the
same page I used previously and read that the User Group represents
WMUK. In fact there are no other links to any other document that can
be interpreted as "officially" publishing the scope of the new user
group.

Consequently there is no ambiguity that the AffCom approval was
literally for a regional User Group with a stated objective to
represent the national Chapter. The exact words are "Cooperate with
and represent Wikimedia UK in Wales".

It is worth noting that the italicized sentence in the very brief
summary appears to be intended to be a direct quote from the meta
page, however it is a rephrasing which turns the sentence into an
objective for the new User Group when the phrasing on the original
page is a description of members (i.e. not the group itself). It is
not stated whether the interpreted objective was part of the UG
application, or someone else's interpretation of the published scope.
This seems misleading unless the meta page is rephrased to include the
statement of scope as explicitly that. This may seem a fine point, but
there exact words that officially define a new Affiliate or User Group
seem worth getting precise so everyone understands what has been
authorized.

Thanks,
Fae

>
>
>> > Any questions regarding potential legal implications for Wikimedia UK
>> > should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.
>>
>> This brush-off is surprising, with the clear implication that AffCom
>> has not approached WMUK with any question. I was mistaken in believing
>> that AffCom had a responsibility to consider obvious legal
>> implications, before approving a User Group that is granted the right
>> to use official logos and the name "Wikipedia" and its language
>> variants when advertising their events. It is disappointing to see
>> that AffCom does not see their official process as needing to address
>> these areas, which may well be a barrier to direct funding, legal
>> recognition or represent a risk to other named pre-existing Affiliates
>> within the scope of the proposed new UG.
>>
>
> Your implication is entirely incorrect; AffCom consulted with -- and
> received an endorsement from -- Wikimedia UK prior to approving the user
> group.  However, we are neither experts in UK charity law nor empowered to
> speak on behalf of Wikimedia UK; consequently, any questions regarding the
> chapter's legal position should be posed to the chapter, not to us.

For the sake of openness and transparency, can you provide a link to
where the endorsement and any questions raised are published? It is
not included with the AffCom resolution.

> Regards,
> Kirill Lokshin
> Chair, Affiliations Committee
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru

Jean-Philippe Béland
In reply to this post by Kirill Lokshin
I agree with Kirill, from the WMF point of view, as long as the chapter is
informed and endorsed the creation of a user group within its covered
territory, the WMF did its due diligence. After that, it is the
responsibility of the chapter to do its homework about the local legal
framework before endorsing the creation of the user group.

That being said, I would also be interested in hearing from Wikimedia UK's
perspective on this new user group and the reasoning behind it.

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
Coordinator, Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group


On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 11:37 AM Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 20 March 2018 at 15:03, Kirill Lokshin <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > Descriptions of user group activities on Meta shouldn't be interpreted
> as
> > > legal documents under UK law (or any other legal code, for that
> matter).
> >
> > Hi Kirill,
> >
> > In the spirit of an open and transparent process, could you please
> > provide a link to the scope of the new approved User Group is
> > published, as the one on Meta is not the one that AffCom reviewed with
> > the UG application?
> >
>
> The Affiliations Committee publishes all of our application review and
> approval resolutions on Meta; the one for the group in question can be
> found at
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recognition_Grŵp_Defnyddwyr_Cymuned_Wicimedia_Cymru
> .
>
>
> > > Any questions regarding potential legal implications for Wikimedia UK
> > > should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.
> >
> > This brush-off is surprising, with the clear implication that AffCom
> > has not approached WMUK with any question. I was mistaken in believing
> > that AffCom had a responsibility to consider obvious legal
> > implications, before approving a User Group that is granted the right
> > to use official logos and the name "Wikipedia" and its language
> > variants when advertising their events. It is disappointing to see
> > that AffCom does not see their official process as needing to address
> > these areas, which may well be a barrier to direct funding, legal
> > recognition or represent a risk to other named pre-existing Affiliates
> > within the scope of the proposed new UG.
> >
>
> Your implication is entirely incorrect; AffCom consulted with -- and
> received an endorsement from -- Wikimedia UK prior to approving the user
> group.  However, we are neither experts in UK charity law nor empowered to
> speak on behalf of Wikimedia UK; consequently, any questions regarding the
> chapter's legal position should be posed to the chapter, not to us.
>
> Regards,
> Kirill Lokshin
> Chair, Affiliations Committee
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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