[Wikimedia-l] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

Paulo Santos Perneta
Hi Farhad,

Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight.
The advantages at an organizational level are quite obvious, indeed, and
it's a smart way to deal with those membership limitations.
I'm glad that the WMF & Wikimedia is abandoning the very rigid chapter
model as the preferred one, and is evolving into more flexible and nuanced
options and varieties, such as those confederations.

Best,
Paulo


Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
sábado, 5/10/2019 à(s) 15:38:

> Hi folks,
>
> I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a
> Tatar language-specific UG.
> On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on
> meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a
> territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG for more
> language-specific UG in the languages of Russia.
>
>
> Wikimedians of Russia seem to see the matreshkas of (1) "global conference
> - regional conference - topic-specific conferences"  & (2) WMF & affiliates
> general meeting - national chapters - UGs" as natural structures, each
> addressing different tasks, having different priorities, whilst cooperating
> in various projects.
>
> * Wikimedia Russia legal requirements (in-person quorum for
> decision-making, etc.) doesn't allow us to accept into membership all
> members of all our regional, language or topic specific UGs. So our chapter
> is evolving towards a mixed confederation status, selectively welcoming
> some members from various groupings around Russia (which themselves can't
> be neither cells nor branches of WMRU).
>
> * SPB is not purely a city, but a one of 85 provinces (read states) of the
> Russian Federation (like my home Republic of Tatarstan, neighbouring
> Republic of Bashkortostan with its Bashkir Wiki-grandmas, or a city of
> Moscow).
>
> * Once we will spin out UG MSK, we will complete transforming Wikimedia
> Russia into a collective entity for join tasks, working on national-level
> advocacy & other projects.
>
> * We currently have 5 existing UGs, have two more filed & at least one
> more at the preparation stage - as this is a good way to engage locally or
> topically interested public into Wikimedia universe.
>
>
> regards,
> farhad
>
> --
> Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan /
> Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

Ziko van Dijk-3
Sorry, people, but I would like to read an official statement of the WMF
(committee) what is the reason or rationale behind this policy to accept WM
user groups in countries where you already have a chapter. Does anybody
have a link?
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 19:16 Uhr schrieb Paulo Santos Perneta <
[hidden email]>:

> Hi Farhad,
>
> Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight.
> The advantages at an organizational level are quite obvious, indeed, and
> it's a smart way to deal with those membership limitations.
> I'm glad that the WMF & Wikimedia is abandoning the very rigid chapter
> model as the preferred one, and is evolving into more flexible and nuanced
> options and varieties, such as those confederations.
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
>
> Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> sábado, 5/10/2019 à(s) 15:38:
>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a
> > Tatar language-specific UG.
> > On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on
> > meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a
> > territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG for more
> > language-specific UG in the languages of Russia.
> >
> >
> > Wikimedians of Russia seem to see the matreshkas of (1) "global
> conference
> > - regional conference - topic-specific conferences"  & (2) WMF &
> affiliates
> > general meeting - national chapters - UGs" as natural structures, each
> > addressing different tasks, having different priorities, whilst
> cooperating
> > in various projects.
> >
> > * Wikimedia Russia legal requirements (in-person quorum for
> > decision-making, etc.) doesn't allow us to accept into membership all
> > members of all our regional, language or topic specific UGs. So our
> chapter
> > is evolving towards a mixed confederation status, selectively welcoming
> > some members from various groupings around Russia (which themselves can't
> > be neither cells nor branches of WMRU).
> >
> > * SPB is not purely a city, but a one of 85 provinces (read states) of
> the
> > Russian Federation (like my home Republic of Tatarstan, neighbouring
> > Republic of Bashkortostan with its Bashkir Wiki-grandmas, or a city of
> > Moscow).
> >
> > * Once we will spin out UG MSK, we will complete transforming Wikimedia
> > Russia into a collective entity for join tasks, working on national-level
> > advocacy & other projects.
> >
> > * We currently have 5 existing UGs, have two more filed & at least one
> > more at the preparation stage - as this is a good way to engage locally
> or
> > topically interested public into Wikimedia universe.
> >
> >
> > regards,
> > farhad
> >
> > --
> > Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan /
> > Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

Chris Keating-2
Hi Ziko,

I believe the only "official" rationale is in the 2012 Board resolution:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Resolutions/Recognizing_Models_of_Affiliations

and the thinking behind this is documented here, also from 2011-12.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles_project

I do not know of any serious discussion on the subject until 2019, when a
you may know the Roles and Responsibilities strategy working group looked
at this and similar issues, and came to the conclusion that we should move
away from the idea of "WMF and affiliates"  to a more distributed approach
with a network of equal entities filling different roles, and more
structures to support and coordinate between them. (There are some
similarities between that and what the Wikimedians in Russia seem to be
moving towards organically, which is interesting.)

Chris



On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 12:50 PM Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry, people, but I would like to read an official statement of the WMF
> (committee) what is the reason or rationale behind this policy to accept WM
> user groups in countries where you already have a chapter. Does anybody
> have a link?
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
> Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 19:16 Uhr schrieb Paulo Santos Perneta <
> [hidden email]>:
>
> > Hi Farhad,
> >
> > Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight.
> > The advantages at an organizational level are quite obvious, indeed, and
> > it's a smart way to deal with those membership limitations.
> > I'm glad that the WMF & Wikimedia is abandoning the very rigid chapter
> > model as the preferred one, and is evolving into more flexible and
> nuanced
> > options and varieties, such as those confederations.
> >
> > Best,
> > Paulo
> >
> >
> > Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> > sábado, 5/10/2019 à(s) 15:38:
> >
> > > Hi folks,
> > >
> > > I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a
> > > Tatar language-specific UG.
> > > On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on
> > > meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a
> > > territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG for more
> > > language-specific UG in the languages of Russia.
> > >
> > >
> > > Wikimedians of Russia seem to see the matreshkas of (1) "global
> > conference
> > > - regional conference - topic-specific conferences"  & (2) WMF &
> > affiliates
> > > general meeting - national chapters - UGs" as natural structures, each
> > > addressing different tasks, having different priorities, whilst
> > cooperating
> > > in various projects.
> > >
> > > * Wikimedia Russia legal requirements (in-person quorum for
> > > decision-making, etc.) doesn't allow us to accept into membership all
> > > members of all our regional, language or topic specific UGs. So our
> > chapter
> > > is evolving towards a mixed confederation status, selectively welcoming
> > > some members from various groupings around Russia (which themselves
> can't
> > > be neither cells nor branches of WMRU).
> > >
> > > * SPB is not purely a city, but a one of 85 provinces (read states) of
> > the
> > > Russian Federation (like my home Republic of Tatarstan, neighbouring
> > > Republic of Bashkortostan with its Bashkir Wiki-grandmas, or a city of
> > > Moscow).
> > >
> > > * Once we will spin out UG MSK, we will complete transforming Wikimedia
> > > Russia into a collective entity for join tasks, working on
> national-level
> > > advocacy & other projects.
> > >
> > > * We currently have 5 existing UGs, have two more filed & at least one
> > > more at the preparation stage - as this is a good way to engage locally
> > or
> > > topically interested public into Wikimedia universe.
> > >
> > >
> > > regards,
> > > farhad
> > >
> > > --
> > > Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan
> /
> > > Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

Paulo Santos Perneta
In reply to this post by Ziko van Dijk-3
Hi Ziko,

When WMPT was forced by AffCom early this year to change the old chapter
agreement we had signed in 2009 for a new one, which we were told was the
current model for everyone, the main difference between the two was
precisely the end of the chapter hegemony over the national territory. We
were told, back then, that those were the new rules. You can read it here:
https://pt.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapter_agreement

Personally, I don't mind that in the least. If some caution is taken by
AffCom, e.g., to not approve rogue affiliates which at it's very inception
are already at war with the national chapter (or "post/pre"-chapter
affiliate, as AffCom has done in Brazil back in 2015, causing all the mess
everybody knows), all is cool. Spain has already something like 5 or 6
affiliates, and they seem to live happily in peace. If it works, let it go.

Best,
Paulo

Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 7/10/2019 à(s)
12:50:

> Sorry, people, but I would like to read an official statement of the WMF
> (committee) what is the reason or rationale behind this policy to accept WM
> user groups in countries where you already have a chapter. Does anybody
> have a link?
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
> Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 19:16 Uhr schrieb Paulo Santos Perneta <
> [hidden email]>:
>
> > Hi Farhad,
> >
> > Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight.
> > The advantages at an organizational level are quite obvious, indeed, and
> > it's a smart way to deal with those membership limitations.
> > I'm glad that the WMF & Wikimedia is abandoning the very rigid chapter
> > model as the preferred one, and is evolving into more flexible and
> nuanced
> > options and varieties, such as those confederations.
> >
> > Best,
> > Paulo
> >
> >
> > Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> > sábado, 5/10/2019 à(s) 15:38:
> >
> > > Hi folks,
> > >
> > > I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a
> > > Tatar language-specific UG.
> > > On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on
> > > meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a
> > > territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG for more
> > > language-specific UG in the languages of Russia.
> > >
> > >
> > > Wikimedians of Russia seem to see the matreshkas of (1) "global
> > conference
> > > - regional conference - topic-specific conferences"  & (2) WMF &
> > affiliates
> > > general meeting - national chapters - UGs" as natural structures, each
> > > addressing different tasks, having different priorities, whilst
> > cooperating
> > > in various projects.
> > >
> > > * Wikimedia Russia legal requirements (in-person quorum for
> > > decision-making, etc.) doesn't allow us to accept into membership all
> > > members of all our regional, language or topic specific UGs. So our
> > chapter
> > > is evolving towards a mixed confederation status, selectively welcoming
> > > some members from various groupings around Russia (which themselves
> can't
> > > be neither cells nor branches of WMRU).
> > >
> > > * SPB is not purely a city, but a one of 85 provinces (read states) of
> > the
> > > Russian Federation (like my home Republic of Tatarstan, neighbouring
> > > Republic of Bashkortostan with its Bashkir Wiki-grandmas, or a city of
> > > Moscow).
> > >
> > > * Once we will spin out UG MSK, we will complete transforming Wikimedia
> > > Russia into a collective entity for join tasks, working on
> national-level
> > > advocacy & other projects.
> > >
> > > * We currently have 5 existing UGs, have two more filed & at least one
> > > more at the preparation stage - as this is a good way to engage locally
> > or
> > > topically interested public into Wikimedia universe.
> > >
> > >
> > > regards,
> > > farhad
> > >
> > > --
> > > Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan
> /
> > > Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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