[Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

Patricio Lorente
2013/4/30 Charles Andres <[hidden email]>:
> In Milan we discuss about Chapters peer review as a tools that the WMF could use in parallel if FDC assessment.
>
> But in light of the discussion about who should or not apply to the FDC, it seems that chapters peer review should be consider by chapter willing to apply to the FDC as a preliminary step.
>
> I think that a friendly discussion between peers about the reasons to apply to the FDC would help everybody to save time and facilitate the choice of the appropriate grant process  :-)

Hi Charles! That would be really helpful.

I'd also like to remind that the process for next year's proposals
includes a Letter of Intent as first step, which will allow the both
the FDC and the applicants to work on the proposals four months in
advance to the presentation deadline and hopefully helping to improve
the applications and/or help to decide which should be the choice of
grant process. I hope some concerns expressed in this thread will be
addressed with this change in the process. See
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2013-April/125199.html
for more details.

                                                Patricio

--
Patricio Lorente
Identi.ca // Twitter: @patriciolorente

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

Deryck Chan-2
In reply to this post by Jan-Bart de Vreede-3
On 30 April 2013 10:22, Jan-Bart de Vreede <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey Florence
>
> On Apr 30, 2013, at 1:12 AM, Florence Devouard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Le 4/30/13 12:04 AM, Nathan a écrit :
> >>
> >>
> >> It's not logical to assume that because the WMF has funds it should in
> >> some way equitably distribute those funds around the world.
> >
> > What happens to the idea according to which the funds belong to the
> Wikimedia mouvement rather than to Wikimedia Foundation ?
>
> Please note that you are disagreeing with Nathan, not with others (like me
> and as far as I know the entire board) who have supported the idea of the
> FDC because it is a great way to ensure that the funds are distributed
> amongst the movement in the interest of the movement. The funds are those
> of the movement, and although we might disagree on how the funds are
> divided we agree on that. I am happy to see that the FDC as a body (and the
> community review process as a important addition) ensures much more
> transparent processes.
>
> >
> > Supporting
> >> chapter operations, and funding offices and staff in dozens of
> >> countries, is not the chief object of the money raised from donors. We
> >> need to get away from the belief that chapters are unquestionably the
> >> best use of movement resources. There is a place for outreach,
> >> publicity, and targeted educational programs. But the WMF is best
> >> situated to supplement the efforts begun by volunteers, in the same
> >> way the WMF itself was created and has grown.
> >
> > I would object to the idea that WMF is best situated to supplement
> efforts started by volunteers and that statement parts from the decision
> made some months ago to deflate WMF role.
> > But we may agree to disagree on this.
>
> I would agree with you here. I think that the WMF is in a good position to
> help certain initiatives and that in several cases there are better
> alternatives. This is why I am so excited about chapters helping chapters
> and all affiliations being able to join the wikimedia conference in Milan
> this year. It is that kind of exchange of experience which is perfect for
> all involved, and lets remember that what works for some might not work for
> others.
>
> >
> > Additionnaly... I must add that when WMF was precisely at the current
> stage of most chapters (with no staff and no office), it was run in a
> rather creative fashion that would make everyone cough today in comparison
> to the requirements and obligations made mandatory to chapters. Uh. You may
> have a slightly more ideal view of the past :)
>
> True, but just because things used to be "bad" is no reason that they
> should be "bad" now if we can prevent it (I was there with you, and we are
> both happy that we outgrew that phase with a minimal of damage and a LOT of
> luck in finding the right ED)  the scale of the organisation now makes it
> impossible to tolerate that kind of "creativity" when not absolutely
> necessary.
> >
> > It would be a poor use
> >> of movement funds indeed if the WMF decided to pour money into infant
> >> chapters with minimal development and fuzzy strategic goals. That's a
> >> recipe for, at an absolute minimum, good-faith mismanagement and waste
> >> of scarce donor resources. Avoiding this path was a very wise decision
> >> by the trustees, and I only hope they remain resolute despite
> >> criticism and Sue's impending departure.
> >
> > I mostly hope that they stay consistant with their own past decisions
> (=we were sold the fact that the money collected belong to the mouvement,
> not to the entity collecting it. If so, decisions of allocations should not
> become WMF ones).
>
> Agreed, which is why I think the FDC's advice is so important and I hope
> to never have to question it (although the board does have to have a final
> say in these matters as a matter of governance)
>
> >
> > In any cases... I know not if WM HK should have been funded or not. What
> I know is that the mouvement need happy and rested and humanly treated
> volunteers to stay healthy.
>
> True, but volunteers also have to ensure not to force themselves into
> positions of "make or break" and thereby put themselves at risk.
>
> >
> > We keep talking about editors decrease. Maybe in the future, we'll talk
> about irl volunteers (as in "chapter members") decrease as well.
>
> I think we should, and I think that some of that discussion took place in
> Milan. As we know there are different kind of volunteers who organise
> affiliates (because the problem is not limited to chapters) and it takes
> different ways to keep motivated. These are important topics to discuss and
> keep track of. But lets not fall into the trap of blaming the "big
> bureaucratic body of the WMF" for all the problems we have. Volunteers burn
> out because of lots of reasons and we should all take care to fix those
> problems that are within our reach to control, and try to reduce the risk
> of burnout for all those involved (and again: meeting each other physically
> and exchanging experiences is a really good way of recharging)...
>
> > In the past years, we have seen several times organizers of Wikimania
> plain disappear after the event. Burn-out. I do not think it is a good
> outcome. For no-one.
> > And I do not think it is a good idea to slap a chapter organizing
> Wikimania this year with words such as "infant, minimal development, fuzzy
> strategic goals" whose funding would be "at an absolute minimum,
> mis-management and waste of donor resources".
>
> I would never characterise it that way, but I would also not
> >
> > Organizing Wikimania is an effort which deserve a little bit more
> respect than this. Either we trust the chapter to host Wikimania or we do
> not. I do.
>
> I do trust them for organising Wikimania (its looking to be great!) , but
> I think that their FDC proposal was too optimistic in growth and share the
> other criticism of the FDC and the community on the talk page. The two are
> not isolated, but they are not the same either.
>
> And to be clear: I think that WMHK should reapply to the GAC (because I do
> think we need to fund them as a movement) with a modest proposal (and
> reading Asaf's long mail it seems to me that this is a much better place
> for their proposal… I just wonder how we can ensure that affiliates apply
> to the right funding the first time around. Of course a condition to any
> funding is being in compliance.
>

Last time I've checked, GAC explicitly disallow proposals for full-time
permanent staffing and administrative costs, stating that FDC is the only
place we can get funding for that.

Having project funding alone wouldn't help - it is precisely because the
grants team disallows the use of project grants for administrative purposes
that WMHK ended up in its current awkward situation.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

Yaroslav M. Blanter
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-3
On 30.04.2013 01:12, Florence Devouard wrote:
> Le 4/30/13 12:04 AM, Nathan a écrit :

> In the past years, we have seen several times organizers of Wikimania
> plain disappear after the event. Burn-out. I do not think it is a good
> outcome. For no-one.
> And I do not think it is a good idea to slap a chapter organizing
> Wikimania this year with words such as "infant, minimal development,
> fuzzy strategic goals" whose funding would be "at an absolute minimum,
> mis-management and waste of donor resources".
>
> Organizing Wikimania is an effort which deserve a little bit more
> respect than this. Either we trust the chapter to host Wikimania or we
> do not. I do.
>
> And I think that even though you are free to think funding this
> chapter would be a bad move, it would be a good move from a human
> perspective to present apologies for using such a strong statement.
>
> Florence
>
>

My personal experience after being an active program committee member
on the 2010 Wikimania Organizing Committee was that my activity there
(and I believe in the end of the day we did a good job - for example, we
managed to accept all submissions with a very few exceptions) was only
appreciated by my fellow organizers. I have not heard any good words
from anybody else, a lot of bad words were coming from all kind of
corners, and nobody in 2011, 2012, 2013, or, for that matter, in 2014
ever contacted me asking whether I would have any interest to do this
job again. In 2011, someone duly revoked my Wikimania wiki administrator
flag saying smth like "not needed anymore", and nobody cared to thank me
or even to inform me of that. I obviously decided afterwards that there
are other, less painful ways I can be do my community service, and lost
all interest in Wikimania organization.

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

Richard Symonds-3
I think, perhaps, that the reform of the Wikimania bidding process could
use a new thread!

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*


On 30 April 2013 11:49, Yaroslav M. Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 30.04.2013 01:12, Florence Devouard wrote:
>
>> Le 4/30/13 12:04 AM, Nathan a écrit :
>>
>
>  In the past years, we have seen several times organizers of Wikimania
>> plain disappear after the event. Burn-out. I do not think it is a good
>> outcome. For no-one.
>> And I do not think it is a good idea to slap a chapter organizing
>> Wikimania this year with words such as "infant, minimal development,
>> fuzzy strategic goals" whose funding would be "at an absolute minimum,
>> mis-management and waste of donor resources".
>>
>> Organizing Wikimania is an effort which deserve a little bit more
>> respect than this. Either we trust the chapter to host Wikimania or we
>> do not. I do.
>>
>> And I think that even though you are free to think funding this
>> chapter would be a bad move, it would be a good move from a human
>> perspective to present apologies for using such a strong statement.
>>
>> Florence
>>
>>
>>
> My personal experience after being an active program committee member on
> the 2010 Wikimania Organizing Committee was that my activity there (and I
> believe in the end of the day we did a good job - for example, we managed
> to accept all submissions with a very few exceptions) was only appreciated
> by my fellow organizers. I have not heard any good words from anybody else,
> a lot of bad words were coming from all kind of corners, and nobody in
> 2011, 2012, 2013, or, for that matter, in 2014 ever contacted me asking
> whether I would have any interest to do this job again. In 2011, someone
> duly revoked my Wikimania wiki administrator flag saying smth like "not
> needed anymore", and nobody cared to thank me or even to inform me of that.
> I obviously decided afterwards that there are other, less painful ways I
> can be do my community service, and lost all interest in Wikimania
> organization.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email].**org <[hidden email]>
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania

Katie Chan
In reply to this post by Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 30/04/2013 11:49, Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote:

> My personal experience after being an active program committee member
> on the 2010 Wikimania Organizing Committee was that my activity there
> (and I believe in the end of the day we did a good job - for example,
> we managed to accept all submissions with a very few exceptions) was
> only appreciated by my fellow organizers. I have not heard any good
> words from anybody else, a lot of bad words were coming from all kind
> of corners, and nobody in 2011, 2012, 2013, or, for that matter, in
> 2014 ever contacted me asking whether I would have any interest to do
> this job again. In 2011, someone duly revoked my Wikimania wiki
> administrator flag saying smth like "not needed anymore", and nobody
> cared to thank me or even to inform me of that. I obviously decided
> afterwards that there are other, less painful ways I can be do my
> community service, and lost all interest in Wikimania organization.

I would just like to point out that there's no Program Committee for
2014 as the jury decision on host haven't even been made yet, and for
2013 there were an open invitation for people to volunteer to serve on
the Programmes Commitee and Scholarship Committee -
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2012-October/004375.html>.
Yes, as a movement in general we need to get better at showing
apperication for others hard work, but let's not generalise.

Regards,

KTC

--
Katie Chan
Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the view of any organisation the author is associated with or employed by.


Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
      - Heinrich Heine


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania

Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 30.04.2013 13:23, Katie Chan wrote:

> On 30/04/2013 11:49, Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote:
>> My personal experience after being an active program committee member
>> on the 2010 Wikimania Organizing Committee was that my activity there
>> (and I believe in the end of the day we did a good job - for example,
>> we managed to accept all submissions with a very few exceptions) was
>> only appreciated by my fellow organizers. I have not heard any good
>> words from anybody else, a lot of bad words were coming from all kind
>> of corners, and nobody in 2011, 2012, 2013, or, for that matter, in
>> 2014 ever contacted me asking whether I would have any interest to do
>> this job again. In 2011, someone duly revoked my Wikimania wiki
>> administrator flag saying smth like "not needed anymore", and nobody
>> cared to thank me or even to inform me of that. I obviously decided
>> afterwards that there are other, less painful ways I can be do my
>> community service, and lost all interest in Wikimania organization.
>
> I would just like to point out that there's no Program Committee for
> 2014 as the jury decision on host haven't even been made yet, and for
> 2013 there were an open invitation for people to volunteer to serve on
> the Programmes Commitee and Scholarship Committee -
> <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2012-October/004375.html>.
> Yes, as a movement in general we need to get better at showing
> apperication for others hard work, but let's not generalise.
>
> Regards,
>
> KTC

As I said, this is my personal experience, and not a generalization. I
unsubscribed from wikimania-l I believe in 2010, and now I will not do
it again even if personally approached. I am fine with doing community
service, but I am not really fine with being insulted for doing
community service because people do not care to figure out who is doing
what and insult the first person who approaches them.

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

Jeromy-Yu Chan (Jerry~Yuyu)
In reply to this post by Jeromy-Yu Chan (Jerry~Yuyu)
I think Jan-Bart did point out an interesting point
As I heard in Milan
Long time staffing, must go trough FDC
And we exactly know our weakness on transparency and management
(I already tried hard to push my rest of team when I was on the chapter
board
But what do you expect if they have day time or/& studies?)

And going trough these year of struggle for survival
We are already very clear to improve the situation we need permanent staff
to stabilize the structure, to free up volunteer to work out something more
"meaningful".

As we aware of problem, we are run out of way to improve, it is bottleneck
we need to tackle. So the FDC decision  suggests chapter like us should
never professionalize? Or never hire staff? Or never apply grant? As
without staffing we dun think we can really have a change, as everyone had
to spent at least 60 hours a week for work and studies.

But the immediate effect of this (I-would-call-in-a-community-aspect)
irresponsible decision is not just kill off the chance of development, the
worse is liquidating the faith of volunteers.

Also we understand the local environment can be how harsh to charity run by
young people like us
WMF is rather easy way to get funding, so I can understand why they have
such strong feeling
It is frankly a huge slam on the local communities faith on that WMF can be
helpful all the time.

we have plans and right connections, just need people to deal with the
stuff in working hours
and of course improve the area they accuse us
That's it

(also one note about the accusation of mismanagement previous fund

we did have apply grant via projects, we finished the report, and we told
them we have money left, nobody had tell us what to do clearly
AND WMF STAFF CONTACTS JUST CHANGE ALL THE TIME


Actually I do find this new grant system really disgusting
I know there are always some good & helpful staff and people around
Frankly I dun think the FdC related person are & will

And now they force me to think of other harder local alternative (which
again a hell lot volunteer time)
Sorry frankly I dun have confidence on appeal or ombudsman after go through
all these frankly

On the other hands we need more (fxxxing) paperworks for appeal or
ombudsman, which the team is super tired with, I just ponder why the things
go so inhumane.

Sent from my iPhone

On 29 Apr, 2013, at 2:37, "Jeromy-Yu Chan (Jerry~Yuyu)" <
[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all

I am ACTUALLY PANIC when reading this.

Normally I would say please don't go,
but realizing myself I am not on the Local Chapter board already
and even myself start to feel don't know what to do next

And I am sorry to say, the decision had totally stir up the emotion of the
whole Wikimania Local Team
I frankly don't know whether if it will lead to a melt down of our
volunteer power
after frustrations of all these years as Deryck said, as I was on the Board
and knew most of the stories.

--
Jeromy-Yu Chan, Jerry
http://plasticnews.wf/
http://about.me/jeromyu
UID: Jeromyu
(on Facebook, Twitter, Plurk & most sites)

Tel (Mobile): +852 9279 1601
Οὔτε τι τῶν ἀνθρωπίνων ἄξιον ὂν μεγάλης σπουδῆς
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

Osmar Valdebenito-2
Probably a smoother transition would be much more appropiate. A part-time
or temporary employee that can take care of the belated reports and
paperwork that you, as volunteers, can't do and probably establish some
basis for a future growth.
WM-AR, WM-RS and WM-IL have professionalized in the latest years (correct
me if there is any other chapter too), which are medium-sized chapters,
probably similar to HK.You should take a look at their/our experience and
that can be helpful to imagine what you can do.

*Osmar Valdebenito G.*
Director Ejecutivo
A. C. Wikimedia Argentina


2013/4/30 Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan <[hidden email]>

> I think Jan-Bart did point out an interesting point
> As I heard in Milan
> Long time staffing, must go trough FDC
> And we exactly know our weakness on transparency and management
> (I already tried hard to push my rest of team when I was on the chapter
> board
> But what do you expect if they have day time or/& studies?)
>
> And going trough these year of struggle for survival
> We are already very clear to improve the situation we need permanent staff
> to stabilize the structure, to free up volunteer to work out something more
> "meaningful".
>
> As we aware of problem, we are run out of way to improve, it is bottleneck
> we need to tackle. So the FDC decision  suggests chapter like us should
> never professionalize? Or never hire staff? Or never apply grant? As
> without staffing we dun think we can really have a change, as everyone had
> to spent at least 60 hours a week for work and studies.
>
> But the immediate effect of this (I-would-call-in-a-community-aspect)
> irresponsible decision is not just kill off the chance of development, the
> worse is liquidating the faith of volunteers.
>
> Also we understand the local environment can be how harsh to charity run by
> young people like us
> WMF is rather easy way to get funding, so I can understand why they have
> such strong feeling
> It is frankly a huge slam on the local communities faith on that WMF can be
> helpful all the time.
>
> we have plans and right connections, just need people to deal with the
> stuff in working hours
> and of course improve the area they accuse us
> That's it
>
> (also one note about the accusation of mismanagement previous fund
>
> we did have apply grant via projects, we finished the report, and we told
> them we have money left, nobody had tell us what to do clearly
> AND WMF STAFF CONTACTS JUST CHANGE ALL THE TIME
>
>
> Actually I do find this new grant system really disgusting
> I know there are always some good & helpful staff and people around
> Frankly I dun think the FdC related person are & will
>
> And now they force me to think of other harder local alternative (which
> again a hell lot volunteer time)
> Sorry frankly I dun have confidence on appeal or ombudsman after go through
> all these frankly
>
> On the other hands we need more (fxxxing) paperworks for appeal or
> ombudsman, which the team is super tired with, I just ponder why the things
> go so inhumane.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 29 Apr, 2013, at 2:37, "Jeromy-Yu Chan (Jerry~Yuyu)" <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I am ACTUALLY PANIC when reading this.
>
> Normally I would say please don't go,
> but realizing myself I am not on the Local Chapter board already
> and even myself start to feel don't know what to do next
>
> And I am sorry to say, the decision had totally stir up the emotion of the
> whole Wikimania Local Team
> I frankly don't know whether if it will lead to a melt down of our
> volunteer power
> after frustrations of all these years as Deryck said, as I was on the Board
> and knew most of the stories.
>
> --
> Jeromy-Yu Chan, Jerry
> http://plasticnews.wf/
> http://about.me/jeromyu
> UID: Jeromyu
> (on Facebook, Twitter, Plurk & most sites)
>
> Tel (Mobile): +852 9279 1601
> Οὔτε τι τῶν ἀνθρωπίνων ἄξιον  ὂν μεγάλης σπουδῆς
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

Dariusz Jemielniak-3
In reply to this post by Jeromy-Yu Chan (Jerry~Yuyu)
hi Jeromy-Yu,

thank you for sharing this personal note.

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> As we aware of problem, we are run out of way to improve, it is bottleneck
> we need to tackle. So the FDC decision  suggests chapter like us should
> never professionalize? Or never hire staff? Or never apply grant? As
> without staffing we dun think we can really have a change, as everyone had
> to spent at least 60 hours a week for work and studies.
>

I hope it is clear that the FDC decision DOES NOT suggest that you should
never professionalize at all, or hire staff, etc. This decision is related
only to your submitted project (its content, the evaluated impact, as well
as volume - you applied for over 200,000 USD to start with; as well as the
estimated capacity to deal with the project's scale, responsibilities,
etc.).

I also encourage you to go through the comments from the deliberation:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/FDC_recommendations/2012-2013_round2#Comments_from_the_deliberation


> But the immediate effect of this (I-would-call-in-a-community-aspect)
> irresponsible decision is not just kill off the chance of development, the
> worse is liquidating the faith of volunteers.
>

I'm really very sorry to hear that and I assure you that it has never been
our intention to undermine the spirit of volunteers. On the contrary, the
volunteer work is something you shine in, and Wikimania organization is
something everybody on the FDC has been really impressed with. However, I
also hope you realize that the project evaluation has to be done basing on
its own merits, and it did not include Wikimania at all (funded
separately).

best,

dariusz ("pundit")
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

Balázs Viczián
Is there any (un)official policy/strong advice/anything against direct
hiring from WMF/FDC/whatever grants?

Balazs


2013/4/30 Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]>

> hi Jeromy-Yu,
>
> thank you for sharing this personal note.
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > As we aware of problem, we are run out of way to improve, it is
> bottleneck
> > we need to tackle. So the FDC decision  suggests chapter like us should
> > never professionalize? Or never hire staff? Or never apply grant? As
> > without staffing we dun think we can really have a change, as everyone
> had
> > to spent at least 60 hours a week for work and studies.
> >
>
> I hope it is clear that the FDC decision DOES NOT suggest that you should
> never professionalize at all, or hire staff, etc. This decision is related
> only to your submitted project (its content, the evaluated impact, as well
> as volume - you applied for over 200,000 USD to start with; as well as the
> estimated capacity to deal with the project's scale, responsibilities,
> etc.).
>
> I also encourage you to go through the comments from the deliberation:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/FDC_recommendations/2012-2013_round2#Comments_from_the_deliberation
>
>
> > But the immediate effect of this (I-would-call-in-a-community-aspect)
> > irresponsible decision is not just kill off the chance of development,
> the
> > worse is liquidating the faith of volunteers.
> >
>
> I'm really very sorry to hear that and I assure you that it has never been
> our intention to undermine the spirit of volunteers. On the contrary, the
> volunteer work is something you shine in, and Wikimania organization is
> something everybody on the FDC has been really impressed with. However, I
> also hope you realize that the project evaluation has to be done basing on
> its own merits, and it did not include Wikimania at all (funded
> separately).
>
> best,
>
> dariusz ("pundit")
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

Florence Devouard-3
In reply to this post by Richard Symonds-3
Le 4/30/13 12:52 PM, Richard Symonds a écrit :
> I think, perhaps, that the reform of the Wikimania bidding proc