[Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
18 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

[Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Quim Gil-2
Hi, let me share a status update about the Code of Conduct for Wikimedia
technical spaces, especially targeted to people not familiar with this CoC
and/or Wikimedia technical spaces.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct

The CoC drafting phase was completed yesterday [0], 18 months after a
kick-off session at the Wikimania 2015 Hackathon. Since then, 142 unique
editors have contributed to the Talk page through 147 sections, 21 voting
rounds abut sections of the CoC announced through the main technical
communication channels, and a total of 2,718 edits.[1] That Talk page has
88 watchers, about 20 editors have participated regularly in discussions,
and about half of them heavily.[2] To put these numbers in context,
MediaWiki.org counts 1,420 active editors, and Phabricator 829.

The next step is to create the first Code of Conduct Committee, a process
defined in the CoC itself.[3] A subset of the Technical Collaboration team
at the Wikimedia Foundation [4] (which I am part of) is preparing an
announcement about the search of candidates, inviting everyone to volunteer
themselves or send us recommendations. We are tracking the progress of this
task in Phabricator [5] and we will communicate major updates in the CoC
Talk page and other technical venues as needed.

I hope this clarifies the current situation. If you have questions or
suggestions, please share them here or in the CoC Talk page.


[0]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Code_of_Conduct#Removing_.27draft.27_status
[1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Code_of_Conduct#Drafting_phase_data
[2]
http://vs.aka-online.de/cgi-bin/wppagehiststat.pl?lang=www.mediawiki&page=Talk%3ACode+of+Conduct
[3]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee#Selection_of_new_members
[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Technical_Collaboration/Community_health
[5] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T159923

--
Quim Gil
Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

metasj
Quim, Thank you for the update.

This code of conduct isn't half-bad.   //SJ

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 7:31 AM, Quim Gil <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi, let me share a status update about the Code of Conduct for Wikimedia
> technical spaces, especially targeted to people not familiar with this CoC
> and/or Wikimedia technical spaces.
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct
>
> The CoC drafting phase was completed yesterday [0], 18 months after a
> kick-off session at the Wikimania 2015 Hackathon. Since then, 142 unique
> editors have contributed to the Talk page through 147 sections, 21 voting
> rounds abut sections of the CoC announced through the main technical
> communication channels, and a total of 2,718 edits.[1] That Talk page has
> 88 watchers, about 20 editors have participated regularly in discussions,
> and about half of them heavily.[2] To put these numbers in context,
> MediaWiki.org counts 1,420 active editors, and Phabricator 829.
>
> The next step is to create the first Code of Conduct Committee, a process
> defined in the CoC itself.[3] A subset of the Technical Collaboration team
> at the Wikimedia Foundation [4] (which I am part of) is preparing an
> announcement about the search of candidates, inviting everyone to volunteer
> themselves or send us recommendations. We are tracking the progress of this
> task in Phabricator [5] and we will communicate major updates in the CoC
> Talk page and other technical venues as needed.
>
> I hope this clarifies the current situation. If you have questions or
> suggestions, please share them here or in the CoC Talk page.
>
>
> [0]
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Code_of_Conduct#
> Removing_.27draft.27_status
> [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Code_of_Conduct#
> Drafting_phase_data
> [2]
> http://vs.aka-online.de/cgi-bin/wppagehiststat.pl?lang=
> www.mediawiki&page=Talk%3ACode+of+Conduct
> [3]
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee#Selection_of_new_
> members
> [4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Technical_Collaboration/
> Community_health
> [5] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T159923
>
> --
> Quim Gil
> Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>




--
Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Pine W
In reply to this post by Quim Gil-2
I am not sure that I agree with that closure. There have been several
concerns mentioned in the talk page and in email threads, and it's not
clear to me that the document should be moving forward without an RfC on
the whole document. If I had time to look into this further I would be
considering reverting Brion's closure as premature in the absence of an RfC
on the whole document. Unfortunately I'm buried in other issues at the
moment and I would need to do a detailed look at the talk page and its
archives before I felt certain about proceeding with a reversion. Someone
who has the time to read the talk page carefully may wish to contest/revert
the close.

I'm not looking for more reasons to have drama about that document, but I'm
very uncomfortable proceeding with that document without an RfC on the
whole document.

Pine
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Quim Gil-2
In reply to this post by Quim Gil-2
As a complement to my update yesterday, the call for candidates to form the
first Code of Conduct Committee has been sent to wikitech-l, mediawiki-l,
engineering, labs-l, analytics, wiki-research-l, and design. It will be
advertised in other technical spaces in the next hours. You can read it
i.e. at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2017-March/087731.html

The next logical update here will be the presentation of a list of
candidates to be reviewed by the Wikimedia technical community and anyone
else willing to chime in. If you want to follow this process closely, you
can check
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Code_of_Conduct#Bootstrapping_the_Code_of_Conduct_Committee
or subscribe to the Phabricator task linked there.

--
Quim Gil
Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

metasj
In reply to this post by Pine W
Dear Pine,

I see your concern, but it seems exaggerated.

There was an early suggestion of a final RfC on the complete draft. That
changed, as stated and debated last April: there would be a code of
conduct, no two ways about it.  The subject for consensus was only what it
said, topic by topic.  There are pros and cons to that change, but that's a
valid way to do things, especially with such a gradual & public review of
the text.  A year-old process change, even if awkward, is not grounds for
reverting brion's close (!) or forum-shopping the conversation.

The current code is as clean and thorough as any I've seen, a model for
other communities, thanks to discussion in drafting. Even the bits left on
the cutting room floor were well done.  It seems reasonable to try it, see
how it works, revise it.  Hats off to those working on this, and thanks
Quim for continuing to share updates here for us wikizens not subscribed to
the technical lists.

Warmly,
Sam
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Antoine Musso-3
In reply to this post by Pine W
Le 08/03/2017 à 20:02, Pine W a écrit :

> I am not sure that I agree with that closure. There have been several
> concerns mentioned in the talk page and in email threads, and it's not
> clear to me that the document should be moving forward without an RfC on
> the whole document. If I had time to look into this further I would be
> considering reverting Brion's closure as premature in the absence of an RfC
> on the whole document. Unfortunately I'm buried in other issues at the
> moment and I would need to do a detailed look at the talk page and its
> archives before I felt certain about proceeding with a reversion. Someone
> who has the time to read the talk page carefully may wish to contest/revert
> the close.
>
> I'm not looking for more reasons to have drama about that document, but I'm
> very uncomfortable proceeding with that document without an RfC on the
> whole document.
>
> Pine

The RfC has been going on for almost two years already. Given the flood
of announces on a wide range of mailing lists, I don't see how one could
have missed it.

There are a lot of things I dislike with that document but really I
summarize it as:

  {BE NICE}

Else you get banned.


Please don't start a drama.

--
Antoine "hashar" Musso


_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Pine W
Looking at the talk page briefly, I'm seeing few objections to the close
and it appears that no one has reverted it, so it's likely to stick. I
remain skeptical of the process (not to say that it's all bad; Matt
certainly did a lot of outreach on mailing lists), but I wouldn't suggest
using this as a template for good policy development methodology.

Since the plan is to move forward with this, I wish for the best. I'm not a
fan of anarchy and there have been a few incidents in technical spaces in
which I felt there were conduct problems. Hopefully this policy will be a
net benefit.

Pine
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Isarra Yos
In reply to this post by Antoine Musso-3
On 09/03/17 20:36, Antoine Musso wrote:
> The RfC has been going on for almost two years already. Given the flood
> of announces on a wide range of mailing lists, I don't see how one could
> have missed it.

The flood might be exactly how. Keep being inundated with notices, many
people are likely to just start ignoring all of the notices. This is a
problem for a lot of things, though.

-I

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Chris "Jethro" Schilling
Well, folks are free to ignore invitations to comment; there are indeed a
lot of discussion notices for various matters, so I don't blame them if
they world rather volunteer their time in other places.

But they cannot then also argue that they didn't know about it. If people
want to know what's going on in our projects, it's their responsibility to
follow places where announcements are posted and read them.

- Chris

On Mar 11, 2017 3:53 PM, "Isarra Yos" <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 09/03/17 20:36, Antoine Musso wrote:

> The RfC has been going on for almost two years already. Given the flood
> of announces on a wide range of mailing lists, I don't see how one could
> have missed it.
>

The flood might be exactly how. Keep being inundated with notices, many
people are likely to just start ignoring all of the notices. This is a
problem for a lot of things, though.

-I


_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Pine W
Chris,

That last paragraph assumes that people (1) know where to look and (2) have
hours to spend watching countless channels for announcements. On the other
hand, there's also a problem of burying people in so many announcements,
surveys, and consultations that people start to tune it all out. This is
part of a larger set of communications and "information overload" problems
that I'm hoping that WMF will address, particularly during its next Annual
Plan.

Pine
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

David Gerard-2
You mean, "how to deal with people who complain they weren't consulted
then turn around and complain they were excessively consulted"? At
this point, the appropriate thing would be to put forward a plausible
solution rather than complain they did the thing you claimed they
hadn't sufficiently done.


- d.




On 18 March 2017 at 20:39, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Chris,
>
> That last paragraph assumes that people (1) know where to look and (2) have
> hours to spend watching countless channels for announcements. On the other
> hand, there's also a problem of burying people in so many announcements,
> surveys, and consultations that people start to tune it all out. This is
> part of a larger set of communications and "information overload" problems
> that I'm hoping that WMF will address, particularly during its next Annual
> Plan.
>
> Pine
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Pine W
My point is more or less the same one that you're making. Communications
(too much and too little) and information overload are both challenges. I
don't think there's going to be a silver bullet solution, but I hope that
WMF will invest effort into addressing this set of problems during the next
Annual Plan. Some of this is WMF-specific, but some of it also relates to
how we've organized ourselves in the community through organic growth and
over time we've developed so many channels that one wonders if we would
benefit from some consolidation and pruning.

Pine


On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 2:15 PM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You mean, "how to deal with people who complain they weren't consulted
> then turn around and complain they were excessively consulted"? At
> this point, the appropriate thing would be to put forward a plausible
> solution rather than complain they did the thing you claimed they
> hadn't sufficiently done.
>
>
> - d.
>
>
>
>
> On 18 March 2017 at 20:39, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Chris,
> >
> > That last paragraph assumes that people (1) know where to look and (2)
> have
> > hours to spend watching countless channels for announcements. On the
> other
> > hand, there's also a problem of burying people in so many announcements,
> > surveys, and consultations that people start to tune it all out. This is
> > part of a larger set of communications and "information overload"
> problems
> > that I'm hoping that WMF will address, particularly during its next
> Annual
> > Plan.
> >
> > Pine
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Chico Venancio
Pine,
Of course we could benefit from consolidation and pruning of communication
channels. This has been the case for at least a decade, how to do that
without alienating part of the community that uses the pruned channels is a
very difficult task, however.
Nevertheless, this does not mean one can claim he did not get involved with
an issue because it was communicated too many times over too many places,
or rather, though one can claim that it is unlikely he will be taken
seriously.

Chico Venancio

2017-03-18 18:52 GMT-03:00 Pine W <[hidden email]>:

> My point is more or less the same one that you're making. Communications
> (too much and too little) and information overload are both challenges. I
> don't think there's going to be a silver bullet solution, but I hope that
> WMF will invest effort into addressing this set of problems during the next
> Annual Plan. Some of this is WMF-specific, but some of it also relates to
> how we've organized ourselves in the community through organic growth and
> over time we've developed so many channels that one wonders if we would
> benefit from some consolidation and pruning.
>
> Pine
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 2:15 PM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > You mean, "how to deal with people who complain they weren't consulted
> > then turn around and complain they were excessively consulted"? At
> > this point, the appropriate thing would be to put forward a plausible
> > solution rather than complain they did the thing you claimed they
> > hadn't sufficiently done.
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 18 March 2017 at 20:39, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > That last paragraph assumes that people (1) know where to look and (2)
> > have
> > > hours to spend watching countless channels for announcements. On the
> > other
> > > hand, there's also a problem of burying people in so many
> announcements,
> > > surveys, and consultations that people start to tune it all out. This
> is
> > > part of a larger set of communications and "information overload"
> > problems
> > > that I'm hoping that WMF will address, particularly during its next
> > Annual
> > > Plan.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Chris "Jethro" Schilling
In reply to this post by Pine W
FYI, Edward Galvez has been maintaining this calendar that has been going
for a while that chapters and staff have been using for various
consultations, surveys, and RfCs.


https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Engagement/Calendar


Seems to me this is a good approach to avoid the issue of "my inbox is
inundated with so many notices" while also informing community members with
what is going on.

- Chris

Chris "Jethro" Schilling
I JethroBT (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:I_JethroBT_(WMF)>
Community Organizer, Wikimedia Foundation
<https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Home>

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My point is more or less the same one that you're making. Communications
> (too much and too little) and information overload are both challenges. I
> don't think there's going to be a silver bullet solution, but I hope that
> WMF will invest effort into addressing this set of problems during the next
> Annual Plan. Some of this is WMF-specific, but some of it also relates to
> how we've organized ourselves in the community through organic growth and
> over time we've developed so many channels that one wonders if we would
> benefit from some consolidation and pruning.
>
> Pine
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 2:15 PM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > You mean, "how to deal with people who complain they weren't consulted
> > then turn around and complain they were excessively consulted"? At
> > this point, the appropriate thing would be to put forward a plausible
> > solution rather than complain they did the thing you claimed they
> > hadn't sufficiently done.
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 18 March 2017 at 20:39, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > That last paragraph assumes that people (1) know where to look and (2)
> > have
> > > hours to spend watching countless channels for announcements. On the
> > other
> > > hand, there's also a problem of burying people in so many
> announcements,
> > > surveys, and consultations that people start to tune it all out. This
> is
> > > part of a larger set of communications and "information overload"
> > problems
> > > that I'm hoping that WMF will address, particularly during its next
> > Annual
> > > Plan.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Rogol Domedonfors
In reply to this post by Chris "Jethro" Schilling
"Jethro"

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 8:15 PM, you wrote:

> Well, folks are free to ignore invitations to comment; there are indeed a
> lot of discussion notices for various matters, so I don't blame them if
> they world rather volunteer their time in other places.
>


> But they cannot then also argue that they didn't know about it. If people
> want to know what's going on in our projects, it's their responsibility to
> follow places where announcements are posted and read them.
>
> - Chris
>

Really?  As a Community Organiser within the Community Engagement part of
the Foundation, do you not believe that the Foundation has some kind of
responsibility too?  Perhaps the Foundation, with its tens of millions of
dollars and hundereds of staff, and its ownership and control of the means
of communcation, might consider whether it can organise its engagement with
a disparate community on a more sophisticated basis than telling the
volunteers that it's their responsbility to know how to engage effectively
with the Foundation?  Let me ask to to reread your comments from the point
of view of a volunteer whose work builds the projects and ask yourself
whether the attitude embodied in your comment is not just ever so slightly
sub-optimal?  Are you completely satsifed that there is nothing at all that
the Foundation could or should do to improve the engagement it has with the
community?

"Rogol"
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
Please ..

From my perspective we should not talk about secondary topics like this. We
should certainly not be this aggressive. I said it before and I say it
again. When you are interested in what we aim to achieve talk about WHAT we
can do to do better and let HOW we can do better from an organisational
point of view be only supportive of our objectives.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On 19 March 2017 at 13:45, Rogol Domedonfors <[hidden email]> wrote:

> "Jethro"
>
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 8:15 PM, you wrote:
>
> > Well, folks are free to ignore invitations to comment; there are indeed a
> > lot of discussion notices for various matters, so I don't blame them if
> > they world rather volunteer their time in other places.
> >
>
>
> > But they cannot then also argue that they didn't know about it. If people
> > want to know what's going on in our projects, it's their responsibility
> to
> > follow places where announcements are posted and read them.
> >
> > - Chris
> >
>
> Really?  As a Community Organiser within the Community Engagement part of
> the Foundation, do you not believe that the Foundation has some kind of
> responsibility too?  Perhaps the Foundation, with its tens of millions of
> dollars and hundereds of staff, and its ownership and control of the means
> of communcation, might consider whether it can organise its engagement with
> a disparate community on a more sophisticated basis than telling the
> volunteers that it's their responsbility to know how to engage effectively
> with the Foundation?  Let me ask to to reread your comments from the point
> of view of a volunteer whose work builds the projects and ask yourself
> whether the attitude embodied in your comment is not just ever so slightly
> sub-optimal?  Are you completely satsifed that there is nothing at all that
> the Foundation could or should do to improve the engagement it has with the
> community?
>
> "Rogol"
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Chris "Jethro" Schilling
I think the calendar I mentioned above on Meta probably could be improved
in some ways. If a lot of folks start using it, it will become quite long,
for one. An archiving system for each month might be a good idea.

What ways could there be to sort or segment the calendar that would be
useful for volunteers to search and parse important discussions, surveys,
 and consultations?

- Chris

On Mar 19, 2017 7:57 AM, "Gerard Meijssen" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hoi,
> Please ..
>
> From my perspective we should not talk about secondary topics like this. We
> should certainly not be this aggressive. I said it before and I say it
> again. When you are interested in what we aim to achieve talk about WHAT we
> can do to do better and let HOW we can do better from an organisational
> point of view be only supportive of our objectives.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> On 19 March 2017 at 13:45, Rogol Domedonfors <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > "Jethro"
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 8:15 PM, you wrote:
> >
> > > Well, folks are free to ignore invitations to comment; there are
> indeed a
> > > lot of discussion notices for various matters, so I don't blame them if
> > > they world rather volunteer their time in other places.
> > >
> >
> >
> > > But they cannot then also argue that they didn't know about it. If
> people
> > > want to know what's going on in our projects, it's their responsibility
> > to
> > > follow places where announcements are posted and read them.
> > >
> > > - Chris
> > >
> >
> > Really?  As a Community Organiser within the Community Engagement part of
> > the Foundation, do you not believe that the Foundation has some kind of
> > responsibility too?  Perhaps the Foundation, with its tens of millions of
> > dollars and hundereds of staff, and its ownership and control of the
> means
> > of communcation, might consider whether it can organise its engagement
> with
> > a disparate community on a more sophisticated basis than telling the
> > volunteers that it's their responsbility to know how to engage
> effectively
> > with the Foundation?  Let me ask to to reread your comments from the
> point
> > of view of a volunteer whose work builds the projects and ask yourself
> > whether the attitude embodied in your comment is not just ever so
> slightly
> > sub-optimal?  Are you completely satsifed that there is nothing at all
> that
> > the Foundation could or should do to improve the engagement it has with
> the
> > community?
> >
> > "Rogol"
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Status of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces

Leila Zia
Hi all,

This thread is diverging more and more away from its original subject.
Please open a new thread if you're interested in discussing items not
directly related to Quim's email re CoC. This can help the audience of this
list with discovery of relevant content and discussions later on.

Thanks,
Leila

On Mar 19, 2017 09:07, "Chris "Jethro" Schilling" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I think the calendar I mentioned above on Meta probably could be improved
> in some ways. If a lot of folks start using it, it will become quite long,
> for one. An archiving system for each month might be a good idea.
>
> What ways could there be to sort or segment the calendar that would be
> useful for volunteers to search and parse important discussions, surveys,
>  and consultations?
>
> - Chris
>
> On Mar 19, 2017 7:57 AM, "Gerard Meijssen" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > Please ..
> >
> > From my perspective we should not talk about secondary topics like this.
> We
> > should certainly not be this aggressive. I said it before and I say it
> > again. When you are interested in what we aim to achieve talk about WHAT
> we
> > can do to do better and let HOW we can do better from an organisational
> > point of view be only supportive of our objectives.
> > Thanks,
> >       GerardM
> >
> > On 19 March 2017 at 13:45, Rogol Domedonfors <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > "Jethro"
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 8:15 PM, you wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well, folks are free to ignore invitations to comment; there are
> > indeed a
> > > > lot of discussion notices for various matters, so I don't blame them
> if
> > > > they world rather volunteer their time in other places.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > But they cannot then also argue that they didn't know about it. If
> > people
> > > > want to know what's going on in our projects, it's their
> responsibility
> > > to
> > > > follow places where announcements are posted and read them.
> > > >
> > > > - Chris
> > > >
> > >
> > > Really?  As a Community Organiser within the Community Engagement part
> of
> > > the Foundation, do you not believe that the Foundation has some kind of
> > > responsibility too?  Perhaps the Foundation, with its tens of millions
> of
> > > dollars and hundereds of staff, and its ownership and control of the
> > means
> > > of communcation, might consider whether it can organise its engagement
> > with
> > > a disparate community on a more sophisticated basis than telling the
> > > volunteers that it's their responsbility to know how to engage
> > effectively
> > > with the Foundation?  Let me ask to to reread your comments from the
> > point
> > > of view of a volunteer whose work builds the projects and ask yourself
> > > whether the attitude embodied in your comment is not just ever so
> > slightly
> > > sub-optimal?  Are you completely satsifed that there is nothing at all
> > that
> > > the Foundation could or should do to improve the engagement it has with
> > the
> > > community?
> > >
> > > "Rogol"
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
Loading...