[Wikimedia-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

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[Wikimedia-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

K. Peachey-2
Lets all welcome the new overlord Erik.

Add a new protection level called "superprotect"
Assigned to nobody by default. Requested by Erik Möller for the purposes
of protecting pages such that sysop permissions are not sufficient to


edit them.
Change-Id: Idfa211257dbacc7623d42393257de1525ff01e9e
<https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#q,Idfa211257dbacc7623d42393257de1525ff01e9e,n,z>

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/153302/



Someone clearly can't take criticism of their projects well.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

Erik Moeller-4
Hi folks,

Admins are currently given broad leeway to customize the user
experience for all users, including addition of site-wide JS, CSS,
etc. These are important capabilities of the wiki that have been used
for many clearly beneficial purposes. In the long run, we will want to
apply a code review process to these changes as with any other
deployed code, but for now the system works as it is and we have no
intent to remove this capability.

However, we've clarified in a number of venues that use of the
MediaWiki: namespace to disable site features is unacceptable. If such
a conflict arises, we're prepared to revoke permissions if required.
This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
down.

Thanks,
Erik
--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

Maarten Dammers
Hi Erik,

I understand you reasoning, but you couldn't have communicated and timed
this in a worse way. You might be doing the right thing, but because of
this ill communication and timing, this will be completely overshadowed.
That saddens me. Good luck with the shit storm........ :-(

Maarten

Erik Moeller schreef op 10-8-2014 14:27:

> Hi folks,
>
> Admins are currently given broad leeway to customize the user
> experience for all users, including addition of site-wide JS, CSS,
> etc. These are important capabilities of the wiki that have been used
> for many clearly beneficial purposes. In the long run, we will want to
> apply a code review process to these changes as with any other
> deployed code, but for now the system works as it is and we have no
> intent to remove this capability.
>
> However, we've clarified in a number of venues that use of the
> MediaWiki: namespace to disable site features is unacceptable. If such
> a conflict arises, we're prepared to revoke permissions if required.
> This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
> situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
> help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
> down.
>
> Thanks,
> Erik


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
Erik Moeller wrote:

>Admins are currently given broad leeway to customize the user
>experience for all users, including addition of site-wide JS, CSS,
>etc. These are important capabilities of the wiki that have been used
>for many clearly beneficial purposes. In the long run, we will want to
>apply a code review process to these changes as with any other
>deployed code, but for now the system works as it is and we have no
>intent to remove this capability.
>
>However, we've clarified in a number of venues that use of the
>MediaWiki: namespace to disable site features is unacceptable. If such
>a conflict arises, we're prepared to revoke permissions if required.
>This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
>situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
>help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
>down.

Let's be clear here. You unilaterally implemented super-protection and
then had a "Community Advocate" apply this new protection level to the
German Wikipedia's "MediaWiki:Common.js"?

You'd been threatening to implement super-protection for a long time. I
see you finally made good on this very bad idea. This is certainly bold,
but also incredibly reckless. Your response to being told "we don't like
your software" is to try shove it down a wiki community's throat?

The German Wikipedia can easily use "MediaWiki:Vector.js" or an
on-by-default JavaScript gadget to implement this change. The German
Wikipedia can also block Jan Eissfeldt's account for conduct unbecoming of
an administrator. In my opinion, it also wouldn't be unreasonable for the
stewards to remove Jan Eissfeldt's capability to protect this page.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

David Gerard-2
On 10 August 2014 15:51, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You'd been threatening to implement super-protection for a long time. I
> see you finally made good on this very bad idea. This is certainly bold,
> but also incredibly reckless. Your response to being told "we don't like
> your software" is to try shove it down a wiki community's throat?


I thought this was a response to someone hamfistedly editing en:wp's
JS and *actually breaking it*. When Erik reverted this change and said
"don't break the damn wiki", the response was "but we can so we should
be able to!" and an attempt to take the Foundation to en:wp
arbitration. The obvious response is to make it so that such
blithering stupidity can't be enacted again.


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

MZMcBride-2
David Gerard wrote:

>On 10 August 2014 15:51, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> You'd been threatening to implement super-protection for a long time. I
>> see you finally made good on this very bad idea. This is certainly bold,
>> but also incredibly reckless. Your response to being told "we don't like
>> your software" is to try shove it down a wiki community's throat?
>
>I thought this was a response to someone hamfistedly editing en:wp's
>JS and *actually breaking it*. When Erik reverted this change and said
>"don't break the damn wiki", the response was "but we can so we should
>be able to!" and an attempt to take the Foundation to en:wp
>arbitration. The obvious response is to make it so that such
>blithering stupidity can't be enacted again.

Super-protection was implemented in response to the German, not English,
Wikipedia. It turns out that multiple communities don't like MediaViewer.

Erik is squarely responsible for the mess being made here and deserves the
full blame and consequences. He instigated the arbitration case on the
English Wikipedia and he's now instigating a war with the German Wikipedia.

The German Wikipedia community has looked at and evaluated MediaViewer and
has decided that it doesn't want MediaViewer enabled on its wiki. Erik has
made it his mission to force MediaViewer on the German Wikipedians (and
the Commoners), using system administrators and community advocates and
anyone else he can coerce. This is unacceptable behavior on Erik's part.
MediaViewer is an entirely supplementary feature, not some fundamental or
critical piece of infrastructure in desperate need of protection.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

David Gerard-2
On 10 August 2014 16:08, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> He instigated the arbitration case on the
> English Wikipedia


That's *definitely* a claim needing actual evidence, considering he
didn't bring it. I assume you can produce something.


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

John Mark Vandenberg
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 10:08 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> David Gerard wrote:
>>On 10 August 2014 15:51, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> You'd been threatening to implement super-protection for a long time. I
>>> see you finally made good on this very bad idea. This is certainly bold,
>>> but also incredibly reckless. Your response to being told "we don't like
>>> your software" is to try shove it down a wiki community's throat?
>>
>>I thought this was a response to someone hamfistedly editing en:wp's
>>JS and *actually breaking it*. When Erik reverted this change and said
>>"don't break the damn wiki", the response was "but we can so we should
>>be able to!" and an attempt to take the Foundation to en:wp
>>arbitration. The obvious response is to make it so that such
>>blithering stupidity can't be enacted again.
>
> Super-protection was implemented in response to the German, not English,
> Wikipedia. It turns out that multiple communities don't like MediaViewer.
>
> Erik is squarely responsible for the mess being made here and deserves the
> full blame and consequences. He instigated the arbitration case on the
> English Wikipedia and he's now instigating a war with the German Wikipedia.
>
> The German Wikipedia community has looked at and evaluated MediaViewer and
> has decided that it doesn't want MediaViewer enabled on its wiki. Erik has
> made it his mission to force MediaViewer on the German Wikipedians (and
> the Commoners), using system administrators and community advocates and
> anyone else he can coerce. This is unacceptable behavior on Erik's part.
> MediaViewer is an entirely supplementary feature, not some fundamental or
> critical piece of infrastructure in desperate need of protection.

As this has wide-ranging implications, I have started an RFC on meta

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Superprotect_rights

--
John Vandenberg

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

rupert THURNER-2
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Admins are currently given broad leeway to customize the user
> experience for all users, including addition of site-wide JS, CSS,
> etc. These are important capabilities of the wiki that have been used
> for many clearly beneficial purposes. In the long run, we will want to
> apply a code review process to these changes as with any other
> deployed code, but for now the system works as it is and we have no
> intent to remove this capability.
>
> However, we've clarified in a number of venues that use of the
> MediaWiki: namespace to disable site features is unacceptable. If such
> a conflict arises, we're prepared to revoke permissions if required.
> This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
> situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
> help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
> down.

erik, this was designed so, and worked well exactly like this.
administrators are voted, and there are hundreds which work together.
if it is wise process to review a change by another administrator
implement it like this. that has to be enough. it worked well 5 years
ago when we had most new editors joining. if you cannot convince the
admins about a change, there is strong evidence that something else is
wrong - not the user rights.

rupert

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

Tomasz W. Kozłowski-2
This is, by far, the most disgusting and disrespectful action
undertaken by the Foundation that I have ever witnessed. The 2012 mass
desysopping of volunteer administrators on the WMF wiki and the past
threats of desysopping users re: VisualEditor and MediaViewer do not
even come close to this.

It is clear to me that the Foundation has agreed on this sneaky change
behind closed doors while some of the most outspoken Wikimedia
volunteers were (and still are) gathered in London. This is not the
first time that we're seeing this happpen, and it is clear to me that
the Foundation has lost all remaining moral authority to talk about
transparency and involving volunteers in the decision-making process.

Erik has forced his employees, including a so-called community
advocacy liaison, to use this opportunity to actively fight the
volunteer community of the German Wikipedia. He himself has engaged in
a wheel war over this, and continues to shove MediaViewer down the
German Wikipedia's community throat.

I'm not sure what was the purpose of this change, but if its aim was
to escalate the already tense situation between the WMF and its
volunteer communities regarding MediaViewer, protecting the
MediaWiki:Common.js page so that no one can edit it was the perfect
choice.

This action will cause a huge shitstorm, and Erik deserves every bit
of shit and mud that will be thrown his way.

You can force anything you like on your employees, but you cannot
force the volunteer community to do what you want, not in a manner
like this.

Remember that in the end, the community can exist without the WMF, but
there is no WMF without the community.

--
                Tomasz

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

Chris Keating-2
>
> It is clear to me that the Foundation has agreed on this sneaky change
> behind closed doors while some of the most outspoken Wikimedia
> volunteers were (and still are) gathered in London.


It's interesting you mention Wikimania, because one of the things I took
away from the conference was the idea that if Wikimedia sites keep on
looking and acting like they did in 2004, we'll get left behind by the rest
of the internet....

Chris
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

Austin Hair
In reply to this post by John Mark Vandenberg
On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 6:29 PM, John Mark Vandenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> As this has wide-ranging implications, I have started an RFC on meta
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Superprotect_rights

With that done, I'd like to ask that discussion on this topic be
continued there. Not that this isn't an appropriate forum for the
issue to be raised, because it obviously is, but a public,
transparent, and permanently documented RfC seems like a better place
for it than the inboxes of this select few.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

Tomasz W. Kozłowski-2
The show must go on.

To ensure that no German Wikipedia administrator deletes
MediaWiki:Common.js to cancel the super-protection, the WMF has just
merged <https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/153345/> and deployed it to
Wikimedia wikis as a matter of emergency after a personal request from
Erik Moller.

Someone is definitely forgetting that Wikimedia wikis are not the
Foundation's personal playground.

You should be ashamed of yourself, Erik, and you should resign or be fired.

And all volunteers should make sure to remember who was involved in
deploying those shameful patches to Wikimedia wikis without consulting
anything with the people who actually matter -- the community.

                Tomasz

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

John Lewis
The people who were actually responsible were the community. Erik was
acting in a preventative role to prevent further disruption not punish
administrators. The community. couldn't take no for an answer and what has
happened?

* Wheel/edit wars
* A new user right to prevent disruption
* A priviledge has been revoked on dewiki
* A user has been desysoped by the community for no reason on dewiki

And who are we blaming? Erik. Why? Because we are a bunch of stubborn
children. We don't get what we want so we are kicking and screaming to get
it but in the end; we don't and we then accuse our parent (WMF) of being
too harsh, mean and taking away something we like but do not deserve.

To be honest - until we as a community learn we are not the overlords, the
masters, god of
Wikimedia, we can work to building a real encyclopedia with awesome feature
where are all work in a good environment and get on as a community and
Foundation.

I am not saying the WMF is perfect and is not in the wrong; they certainly
have some blame to take and I will come onto that shortly, but we can not
blame the Foundation for revoking something we clearly do not deserve.

>
Erik, While I will say you have not been communicating stuff the best you
can and this new user right was proxy deployed by Tim and an advocate and
not your self - you mean well and I see this. I agree with everything you
have done so far as a matter of fact.

Fabrice, Have you attempted to start any discussions with communities in
exactly why they don't want Media Viewer and how exactly it causes so much
dispute that it requires Erik to proxy intervene? It not, please do so.

In a short conclusion - I feel both parties have acted inappropriately and
our bitching at each other does far than solve it. The WMF had to implement
a new right and revoke dewiki's access to their site wide js page because
of their refusal to accept what the WMF said and want to create a
performance killer hack to 'fix it' at the cost of performance. Why did
dewiki have to do this? The WMF refusing to disable Media Viewer. From what
I see, the WMF have backed up by they refused to do this for Wikipedias and
their compromise for Commons is acceptable. I have yet to see a valid
reason why Media Viewer exactly makes Wikipedia go into a 'OMG UNUSABLE
DISABLE IT FUCKING NOW OR I WILL' state. Media Viewer allows you to view
and images without leaving the page - reducing load time for both users and
the WMF. It is hardly the beginning if the end for images.

If we take a quick look at the statistics - 64 voted against Media Viewer
on the English Wikipedia while 6kish users enabled it, this shows 1.1%
consensus for disabling the extension in a whole.

I will not ramble on any more. I just ask the community to stop bitching at
the WMF and accept their decision. Until then - I fully support Erik super
protecting every single js and CSS page on every wiki as most Sysop I feel
are technically incompetent.

John Lewis



--
John Lewis
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

Austin Hair
In reply to this post by Tomasz W. Kozłowski-2
On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Tomasz W. Kozłowski
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Someone is definitely forgetting that Wikimedia wikis are not the
> Foundation's personal playground.
>
> You should be ashamed of yourself, Erik, and you should resign or be fired.
>
> And all volunteers should make sure to remember who was involved in
> deploying those shameful patches to Wikimedia wikis without consulting
> anything with the people who actually matter -- the community.

Tomasz,

While I appreciate your indignation, this is absolutely not the tone
appropriate for the list, nor is it one likely to effect your desired
outcome. Please be civil, and consider commenting on the RfC rather
than making personal attacks and veiled threats on this mailing list.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

MF-Warburg-2
In reply to this post by John Lewis
Your mail is embarrassing.
If you think the foundation is like the parent of the community, you don't
understand anything about the foundation nor the community.
Am 11.08.2014 00:05 schrieb "John Lewis" <[hidden email]>:

> The people who were actually responsible were the community. Erik was
> acting in a preventative role to prevent further disruption not punish
> administrators. The community. couldn't take no for an answer and what has
> happened?
>
> * Wheel/edit wars
> * A new user right to prevent disruption
> * A priviledge has been revoked on dewiki
> * A user has been desysoped by the community for no reason on dewiki
>
> And who are we blaming? Erik. Why? Because we are a bunch of stubborn
> children. We don't get what we want so we are kicking and screaming to get
> it but in the end; we don't and we then accuse our parent (WMF) of being
> too harsh, mean and taking away something we like but do not deserve.
>
> To be honest - until we as a community learn we are not the overlords, the
> masters, god of
> Wikimedia, we can work to building a real encyclopedia with awesome feature
> where are all work in a good environment and get on as a community and
> Foundation.
>
> I am not saying the WMF is perfect and is not in the wrong; they certainly
> have some blame to take and I will come onto that shortly, but we can not
> blame the Foundation for revoking something we clearly do not deserve.
>
> >
> Erik, While I will say you have not been communicating stuff the best you
> can and this new user right was proxy deployed by Tim and an advocate and
> not your self - you mean well and I see this. I agree with everything you
> have done so far as a matter of fact.
>
> Fabrice, Have you attempted to start any discussions with communities in
> exactly why they don't want Media Viewer and how exactly it causes so much
> dispute that it requires Erik to proxy intervene? It not, please do so.
>
> In a short conclusion - I feel both parties have acted inappropriately and
> our bitching at each other does far than solve it. The WMF had to implement
> a new right and revoke dewiki's access to their site wide js page because
> of their refusal to accept what the WMF said and want to create a
> performance killer hack to 'fix it' at the cost of performance. Why did
> dewiki have to do this? The WMF refusing to disable Media Viewer. From what
> I see, the WMF have backed up by they refused to do this for Wikipedias and
> their compromise for Commons is acceptable. I have yet to see a valid
> reason why Media Viewer exactly makes Wikipedia go into a 'OMG UNUSABLE
> DISABLE IT FUCKING NOW OR I WILL' state. Media Viewer allows you to view
> and images without leaving the page - reducing load time for both users and
> the WMF. It is hardly the beginning if the end for images.
>
> If we take a quick look at the statistics - 64 voted against Media Viewer
> on the English Wikipedia while 6kish users enabled it, this shows 1.1%
> consensus for disabling the extension in a whole.
>
> I will not ramble on any more. I just ask the community to stop bitching at
> the WMF and accept their decision. Until then - I fully support Erik super
> protecting every single js and CSS page on every wiki as most Sysop I feel
> are technically incompetent.
>
> John Lewis
>
>
>
> --
> John Lewis
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

Tomasz W. Kozłowski-2
In reply to this post by John Lewis
On 11 August 2014 01:05, John Lewis wrote:

> The people who were actually responsible were the community. Erik was
> acting in a preventative role to prevent further disruption not punish
> administrators.

Erik was acting in a manner that is totally disgraceful. He should
have never used his force to revert DaB.  The way that DaB.
"implemented" the results of that RfC were incorrect, and the
community of the German Wikipedia were perfectly able to revert his
edits themselves once they realized what the effects were — without
the need to involve the WMF at any point.

> * A new user right to prevent disruption

Implemented without any community consultation whatsoever, on a global
scale even though the problem was occurring only on the German
Wikipedia.

> * A user has been desysoped by the community for no reason on dewiki

Nothing of the sort has happened yet.

> And who are we blaming? Erik. Why? Because we are a bunch of stubborn
> children. We don't get what we want so we are kicking and screaming to get
> it but in the end; we don't and we then accuse our parent (WMF) of being
> too harsh, mean and taking away something we like but do not deserve.

The only person that should be blamed by what happened is Erik. He is
a WMF employee, he is an experienced Wikimedian, and he should have
realized what would be the result of his actions.

Instead, he went ahead with his show of force, and escalated a
situation that would have fixed itself in a matter of hours.

Even if MMV was disabled for a day, nothing would have happened. Now
shit's happened, and it will be damn hard to regain the trust that was
lost over this absurd stretching of muscles.

PS For what it's worth: I like MultimediaViewer. I use it, and I
opposed the idea that a small community of volunteers can decide to
disable it for anonymous editors. But what Erik has done is totally
unacceptable, and contrary to the supposed cooperation between the WMF
and the volunteer communities.

--
                Tomasz

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

Richard Symonds-3
In reply to this post by MF-Warburg-2
MF-Warburg, that came across as a bit rude...
On 11 Aug 2014 00:29, "MF-Warburg" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Your mail is embarrassing.
> If you think the foundation is like the parent of the community, you don't
> understand anything about the foundation nor the community.
> Am 11.08.2014 00:05 schrieb "John Lewis" <[hidden email]>:
>
> > The people who were actually responsible were the community. Erik was
> > acting in a preventative role to prevent further disruption not punish
> > administrators. The community. couldn't take no for an answer and what
> has
> > happened?
> >
> > * Wheel/edit wars
> > * A new user right to prevent disruption
> > * A priviledge has been revoked on dewiki
> > * A user has been desysoped by the community for no reason on dewiki
> >
> > And who are we blaming? Erik. Why? Because we are a bunch of stubborn
> > children. We don't get what we want so we are kicking and screaming to
> get
> > it but in the end; we don't and we then accuse our parent (WMF) of being
> > too harsh, mean and taking away something we like but do not deserve.
> >
> > To be honest - until we as a community learn we are not the overlords,
> the
> > masters, god of
> > Wikimedia, we can work to building a real encyclopedia with awesome
> feature
> > where are all work in a good environment and get on as a community and
> > Foundation.
> >
> > I am not saying the WMF is perfect and is not in the wrong; they
> certainly
> > have some blame to take and I will come onto that shortly, but we can not
> > blame the Foundation for revoking something we clearly do not deserve.
> >
> > >
> > Erik, While I will say you have not been communicating stuff the best you
> > can and this new user right was proxy deployed by Tim and an advocate and
> > not your self - you mean well and I see this. I agree with everything you
> > have done so far as a matter of fact.
> >
> > Fabrice, Have you attempted to start any discussions with communities in
> > exactly why they don't want Media Viewer and how exactly it causes so
> much
> > dispute that it requires Erik to proxy intervene? It not, please do so.
> >
> > In a short conclusion - I feel both parties have acted inappropriately
> and
> > our bitching at each other does far than solve it. The WMF had to
> implement
> > a new right and revoke dewiki's access to their site wide js page because
> > of their refusal to accept what the WMF said and want to create a
> > performance killer hack to 'fix it' at the cost of performance. Why did
> > dewiki have to do this? The WMF refusing to disable Media Viewer. From
> what
> > I see, the WMF have backed up by they refused to do this for Wikipedias
> and
> > their compromise for Commons is acceptable. I have yet to see a valid
> > reason why Media Viewer exactly makes Wikipedia go into a 'OMG UNUSABLE
> > DISABLE IT FUCKING NOW OR I WILL' state. Media Viewer allows you to view
> > and images without leaving the page - reducing load time for both users
> and
> > the WMF. It is hardly the beginning if the end for images.
> >
> > If we take a quick look at the statistics - 64 voted against Media Viewer
> > on the English Wikipedia while 6kish users enabled it, this shows 1.1%
> > consensus for disabling the extension in a whole.
> >
> > I will not ramble on any more. I just ask the community to stop bitching
> at
> > the WMF and accept their decision. Until then - I fully support Erik
> super
> > protecting every single js and CSS page on every wiki as most Sysop I
> feel
> > are technically incompetent.
> >
> > John Lewis
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > John Lewis
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

MF-Warburg-2
Oh sorry, that was totally not the intention. It must be the strange beer
here at the Thistle Barbecue hotel.
Am 11.08.2014 00:54 schrieb "Richard Symonds" <
[hidden email]>:

> MF-Warburg, that came across as a bit rude...
> On 11 Aug 2014 00:29, "MF-Warburg" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Your mail is embarrassing.
> > If you think the foundation is like the parent of the community, you
> don't
> > understand anything about the foundation nor the community.
> > Am 11.08.2014 00:05 schrieb "John Lewis" <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > The people who were actually responsible were the community. Erik was
> > > acting in a preventative role to prevent further disruption not punish
> > > administrators. The community. couldn't take no for an answer and what
> > has
> > > happened?
> > >
> > > * Wheel/edit wars
> > > * A new user right to prevent disruption
> > > * A priviledge has been revoked on dewiki
> > > * A user has been desysoped by the community for no reason on dewiki
> > >
> > > And who are we blaming? Erik. Why? Because we are a bunch of stubborn
> > > children. We don't get what we want so we are kicking and screaming to
> > get
> > > it but in the end; we don't and we then accuse our parent (WMF) of
> being
> > > too harsh, mean and taking away something we like but do not deserve.
> > >
> > > To be honest - until we as a community learn we are not the overlords,
> > the
> > > masters, god of
> > > Wikimedia, we can work to building a real encyclopedia with awesome
> > feature
> > > where are all work in a good environment and get on as a community and
> > > Foundation.
> > >
> > > I am not saying the WMF is perfect and is not in the wrong; they
> > certainly
> > > have some blame to take and I will come onto that shortly, but we can
> not
> > > blame the Foundation for revoking something we clearly do not deserve.
> > >
> > > >
> > > Erik, While I will say you have not been communicating stuff the best
> you
> > > can and this new user right was proxy deployed by Tim and an advocate
> and
> > > not your self - you mean well and I see this. I agree with everything
> you
> > > have done so far as a matter of fact.
> > >
> > > Fabrice, Have you attempted to start any discussions with communities
> in
> > > exactly why they don't want Media Viewer and how exactly it causes so
> > much
> > > dispute that it requires Erik to proxy intervene? It not, please do so.
> > >
> > > In a short conclusion - I feel both parties have acted inappropriately
> > and
> > > our bitching at each other does far than solve it. The WMF had to
> > implement
> > > a new right and revoke dewiki's access to their site wide js page
> because
> > > of their refusal to accept what the WMF said and want to create a
> > > performance killer hack to 'fix it' at the cost of performance. Why did
> > > dewiki have to do this? The WMF refusing to disable Media Viewer. From
> > what
> > > I see, the WMF have backed up by they refused to do this for Wikipedias
> > and
> > > their compromise for Commons is acceptable. I have yet to see a valid
> > > reason why Media Viewer exactly makes Wikipedia go into a 'OMG UNUSABLE
> > > DISABLE IT FUCKING NOW OR I WILL' state. Media Viewer allows you to
> view
> > > and images without leaving the page - reducing load time for both users
> > and
> > > the WMF. It is hardly the beginning if the end for images.
> > >
> > > If we take a quick look at the statistics - 64 voted against Media
> Viewer
> > > on the English Wikipedia while 6kish users enabled it, this shows 1.1%
> > > consensus for disabling the extension in a whole.
> > >
> > > I will not ramble on any more. I just ask the community to stop
> bitching
> > at
> > > the WMF and accept their decision. Until then - I fully support Erik
> > super
> > > protecting every single js and CSS page on every wiki as most Sysop I
> > feel
> > > are technically incompetent.
> > >
> > > John Lewis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > John Lewis
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

Richard Symonds-3
As long as we all stay friends!
On 11 Aug 2014 00:57, "MF-Warburg" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Oh sorry, that was totally not the intention. It must be the strange beer
> here at the Thistle Barbecue hotel.
> Am 11.08.2014 00:54 schrieb "Richard Symonds" <
> [hidden email]>:
>
> > MF-Warburg, that came across as a bit rude...
> > On 11 Aug 2014 00:29, "MF-Warburg" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Your mail is embarrassing.
> > > If you think the foundation is like the parent of the community, you
> > don't
> > > understand anything about the foundation nor the community.
> > > Am 11.08.2014 00:05 schrieb "John Lewis" <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > The people who were actually responsible were the community. Erik was
> > > > acting in a preventative role to prevent further disruption not
> punish
> > > > administrators. The community. couldn't take no for an answer and
> what
> > > has
> > > > happened?
> > > >
> > > > * Wheel/edit wars
> > > > * A new user right to prevent disruption
> > > > * A priviledge has been revoked on dewiki
> > > > * A user has been desysoped by the community for no reason on dewiki
> > > >
> > > > And who are we blaming? Erik. Why? Because we are a bunch of stubborn
> > > > children. We don't get what we want so we are kicking and screaming
> to
> > > get
> > > > it but in the end; we don't and we then accuse our parent (WMF) of
> > being
> > > > too harsh, mean and taking away something we like but do not deserve.
> > > >
> > > > To be honest - until we as a community learn we are not the
> overlords,
> > > the
> > > > masters, god of
> > > > Wikimedia, we can work to building a real encyclopedia with awesome
> > > feature
> > > > where are all work in a good environment and get on as a community
> and
> > > > Foundation.
> > > >
> > > > I am not saying the WMF is perfect and is not in the wrong; they
> > > certainly
> > > > have some blame to take and I will come onto that shortly, but we can
> > not
> > > > blame the Foundation for revoking something we clearly do not
> deserve.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Erik, While I will say you have not been communicating stuff the best
> > you
> > > > can and this new user right was proxy deployed by Tim and an advocate
> > and
> > > > not your self - you mean well and I see this. I agree with everything
> > you
> > > > have done so far as a matter of fact.
> > > >
> > > > Fabrice, Have you attempted to start any discussions with communities
> > in
> > > > exactly why they don't want Media Viewer and how exactly it causes so
> > > much
> > > > dispute that it requires Erik to proxy intervene? It not, please do
> so.
> > > >
> > > > In a short conclusion - I feel both parties have acted
> inappropriately
> > > and
> > > > our bitching at each other does far than solve it. The WMF had to
> > > implement
> > > > a new right and revoke dewiki's access to their site wide js page
> > because
> > > > of their refusal to accept what the WMF said and want to create a
> > > > performance killer hack to 'fix it' at the cost of performance. Why
> did
> > > > dewiki have to do this? The WMF refusing to disable Media Viewer.
> From
> > > what
> > > > I see, the WMF have backed up by they refused to do this for
> Wikipedias
> > > and
> > > > their compromise for Commons is acceptable. I have yet to see a valid
> > > > reason why Media Viewer exactly makes Wikipedia go into a 'OMG
> UNUSABLE
> > > > DISABLE IT FUCKING NOW OR I WILL' state. Media Viewer allows you to
> > view
> > > > and images without leaving the page - reducing load time for both
> users
> > > and
> > > > the WMF. It is hardly the beginning if the end for images.
> > > >
> > > > If we take a quick look at the statistics - 64 voted against Media
> > Viewer
> > > > on the English Wikipedia while 6kish users enabled it, this shows
> 1.1%
> > > > consensus for disabling the extension in a whole.
> > > >
> > > > I will not ramble on any more. I just ask the community to stop
> > bitching
> > > at
> > > > the WMF and accept their decision. Until then - I fully support Erik
> > > super
> > > > protecting every single js and CSS page on every wiki as most Sysop I
> > > feel
> > > > are technically incompetent.
> > > >
> > > > John Lewis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > John Lewis
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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