[Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

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[Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Milos Rancic-2
I am leaving the movement. I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
years.

If you want to skip the story of my motivation, continue with
"Unfinished projects" section.

== On my motivation ==

In short, I am struggling with the motivation to work inside of the
movement for almost two years. My participation in Haifa was the
culmination of my Wikimedia engagement and everything after it was
going down and down.

I was struggling hard. I didn't want to leave the movement because I
was feeling responsible for a number of issues. As time went, as I
wasn't taking any new responsibility, the level of "feeling
responsible" was lowering and lowering. My last really big
responsibility was to push the creation of Wikimedia Serbia Office
last fall. After that I felt that there is no need for me inside of
the movement.

But I wanted to stay, I wanted it hardly! For at least two years I was
struggling with my steward activity and although I know that I am
important to other stewards, I have problem to make one fucking
steward action for months. And that wasn't about my free time. I have
it enough. That was about my motivation.

I was trying to find a way to motivate myself to participate in the
movement. Alone or in cooperation with other Wikimedians, I started
some not yet published projects. I thought that I could raise my
motivation if I leave issues related to the chapters and I left
Chapters committee. But it didn't help.

I was on Amsterdam Hackathon and talking with Erik about one more
important Wikimedia issue: thousands of languages which are waiting
for their editions of Wikimedia projects. He was encouraging; for the
first time I got clearly positive response. But it wasn't enough.
Instead of enthusiastically working on the project, I just didn't have
enough motivation to do anything.

I thought that becoming a Board member could raise my motivation. At
the beginning, I was actually very enthusiastic. But last two weeks I
spent much more time in being worried about the possibility to be
elected than about thinking about how to be elected.

For a number of times I was thinking to quit, but this time I had
appropriate personal trigger and finally got courage to admit myself
that there is nothing which would change my motivation.

== Wikimedia impact on me ==

I've just realized that if I am writing this kind of email, I should
say something about Wikimedia impact on me.

When I first edited Wikipedia I was less than a month older than 30.
This November I will be 40. The whole decade of my life was under the
strong influence of Wikimedia movement. I spent intellectually
formative years inside of Wikimedia and it changed me a lot, probably
not comparable to anything else.

And I could write a book about how Wikipedia and Wikimedia influenced me.

== Unfinished projects ==

This is important. I am leaving some things unfinished and both of the
projects are very important.

* First, languages. There are more than 6000 languages and there are
less than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. It is likely that all of
3000 languages with more than 10,000 of speakers would survive if they
have Wikipedia edition in their language. And if you ask why Wikimedia
movement should do that, it's because there is no other relevant
international body capable to do that. That makes Wikimedia's position
unique and with large amount of historical responsibility. I will
share my research with anyone willing to work on this issue.

* Gamification. Mostly because the lack of my motivation, the project
Wikichievements didn't start yet. It's actually in the very initial
phase. Wikimedia Serbia and Wikimedia DC would do that. If you are
interested in that, please contact Kirill Lokshin from WM DC.
Gamification and social features are extremely important in making
Wikimedia movement attractive to young generations again.

== Wikimedia movement *is* important! ==

Wikimedia movement is not just "important", it is the best try of our
civilization to create a global movement based on completely different
principles than anything else before. It's the best chance of our
civilization to survive. And it's up to you to use the chance or not.
If Wikimedia movement fails, I am sure that the similar chance would
appear once in the future. But not soon and maybe too late.

Every Wikimedian is a highly important person, likely more important
than many heads of states. And that importance brings high
responsibility to keep and develop Wikimedia projects and the
movement.

* * *

Thanks for all the fish! It is pleasure to know all of you! I won't
leave wikimeida-l for a couple of days. It's not nice to leave the
communication immediately. And you have my email; some of you other
means of communication with me. It will be always a pleasure to me if
I could help to any of you!

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Amir E. Aharoni
2013/6/7 Milos Rancic <[hidden email]>
>
> I am leaving the movement. I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
> bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
> the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
> many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
> years.

Dear Milos,

I cannot even begin to think how much do I owe you. You taught me a
lot about languages and about Wikimedia and the things around it.
Thanks in large part to you I became much more involved in the
movement than I ever imagined I would be, and it literally changed my
life.

Of course, your contributions went way beyond that, but I shall only
speak for myself.

Thank you so much for everything.

I very sincerely wish you a lot of success with your future endeavors
and I'm sure that we'll keep in touch.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Sarah Stierch-2
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
Milos -

What an emotional and touching letter. I know it's a hard decision to not
only leave the movement, but to know who you want to let know and who you
want to not let know about leaving - and I am glad you made the decision to
share your honest and emotional declaration with us.

As someone supportive of Indigenous languages having their own wiki spaces
for their own survival and development, I really do hope that more work
will proceed regarding languages and the work you have done. There have
been groups forming, including the work Wikimedia Canada has done, about
Indigenous and rare languages. Heck, one of the projects I have been
working on has had numerous articles written in Nahuatl,[1] something that
blows my mind. So things are happening, and thank you for your passion and
work regarding that.

Also, I'm happy to know the gamification project is proceeding and WM DC is
helping to lead that. I agree that it's important to see this happen, and
it's shown successful in the Teahouse with badges. Thank you also for your
work on that and I do hope your Wikimedia legacy will be preserved in the
successful development of that project.

I understand about being able to write a book about how Wikimedia has
changed my life. I look forward to seeing where your life leads next, and I
hope you won't stop contributing to Wikipedia as an editor, at least :)

Thank you for everything you have, and continue to do,

Sarah

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahuatl

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am leaving the movement. I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
> bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
> the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
> many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
> years.
>
> If you want to skip the story of my motivation, continue with
> "Unfinished projects" section.
>
> == On my motivation ==
>
> In short, I am struggling with the motivation to work inside of the
> movement for almost two years. My participation in Haifa was the
> culmination of my Wikimedia engagement and everything after it was
> going down and down.
>
> I was struggling hard. I didn't want to leave the movement because I
> was feeling responsible for a number of issues. As time went, as I
> wasn't taking any new responsibility, the level of "feeling
> responsible" was lowering and lowering. My last really big
> responsibility was to push the creation of Wikimedia Serbia Office
> last fall. After that I felt that there is no need for me inside of
> the movement.
>
> But I wanted to stay, I wanted it hardly! For at least two years I was
> struggling with my steward activity and although I know that I am
> important to other stewards, I have problem to make one fucking
> steward action for months. And that wasn't about my free time. I have
> it enough. That was about my motivation.
>
> I was trying to find a way to motivate myself to participate in the
> movement. Alone or in cooperation with other Wikimedians, I started
> some not yet published projects. I thought that I could raise my
> motivation if I leave issues related to the chapters and I left
> Chapters committee. But it didn't help.
>
> I was on Amsterdam Hackathon and talking with Erik about one more
> important Wikimedia issue: thousands of languages which are waiting
> for their editions of Wikimedia projects. He was encouraging; for the
> first time I got clearly positive response. But it wasn't enough.
> Instead of enthusiastically working on the project, I just didn't have
> enough motivation to do anything.
>
> I thought that becoming a Board member could raise my motivation. At
> the beginning, I was actually very enthusiastic. But last two weeks I
> spent much more time in being worried about the possibility to be
> elected than about thinking about how to be elected.
>
> For a number of times I was thinking to quit, but this time I had
> appropriate personal trigger and finally got courage to admit myself
> that there is nothing which would change my motivation.
>
> == Wikimedia impact on me ==
>
> I've just realized that if I am writing this kind of email, I should
> say something about Wikimedia impact on me.
>
> When I first edited Wikipedia I was less than a month older than 30.
> This November I will be 40. The whole decade of my life was under the
> strong influence of Wikimedia movement. I spent intellectually
> formative years inside of Wikimedia and it changed me a lot, probably
> not comparable to anything else.
>
> And I could write a book about how Wikipedia and Wikimedia influenced me.
>
> == Unfinished projects ==
>
> This is important. I am leaving some things unfinished and both of the
> projects are very important.
>
> * First, languages. There are more than 6000 languages and there are
> less than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. It is likely that all of
> 3000 languages with more than 10,000 of speakers would survive if they
> have Wikipedia edition in their language. And if you ask why Wikimedia
> movement should do that, it's because there is no other relevant
> international body capable to do that. That makes Wikimedia's position
> unique and with large amount of historical responsibility. I will
> share my research with anyone willing to work on this issue.
>
> * Gamification. Mostly because the lack of my motivation, the project
> Wikichievements didn't start yet. It's actually in the very initial
> phase. Wikimedia Serbia and Wikimedia DC would do that. If you are
> interested in that, please contact Kirill Lokshin from WM DC.
> Gamification and social features are extremely important in making
> Wikimedia movement attractive to young generations again.
>
> == Wikimedia movement *is* important! ==
>
> Wikimedia movement is not just "important", it is the best try of our
> civilization to create a global movement based on completely different
> principles than anything else before. It's the best chance of our
> civilization to survive. And it's up to you to use the chance or not.
> If Wikimedia movement fails, I am sure that the similar chance would
> appear once in the future. But not soon and maybe too late.
>
> Every Wikimedian is a highly important person, likely more important
> than many heads of states. And that importance brings high
> responsibility to keep and develop Wikimedia projects and the
> movement.
>
> * * *
>
> Thanks for all the fish! It is pleasure to know all of you! I won't
> leave wikimeida-l for a couple of days. It's not nice to leave the
> communication immediately. And you have my email; some of you other
> means of communication with me. It will be always a pleasure to me if
> I could help to any of you!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



--
--
*Sarah Stierch*
*Museumist, open culture advocate, and Wikimedian*
*www.sarahstierch.com*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Santiago Navarro
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
Milosh, thank you very much for your work during these ten years, and good
luck in your life and in the future. When you want to come back, you
already know that this is your home.

Best wishes!

--
Santiago Navarro
Wikimedia España
http://www.wikimedia.org.es/


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Huib Laurens
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
Milos,

Again, I'm sorry to see you leave. I would like to thank you, thank you
very much for all the things you have done!

I loved to work with you in the LangCom, and I believe I learned a lot. And
I hope our paths will cross again someday.

Huib


On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am leaving the movement. I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
> bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
> the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
> many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
> years.
>
> If you want to skip the story of my motivation, continue with
> "Unfinished projects" section.
>
> == On my motivation ==
>
> In short, I am struggling with the motivation to work inside of the
> movement for almost two years. My participation in Haifa was the
> culmination of my Wikimedia engagement and everything after it was
> going down and down.
>
> I was struggling hard. I didn't want to leave the movement because I
> was feeling responsible for a number of issues. As time went, as I
> wasn't taking any new responsibility, the level of "feeling
> responsible" was lowering and lowering. My last really big
> responsibility was to push the creation of Wikimedia Serbia Office
> last fall. After that I felt that there is no need for me inside of
> the movement.
>
> But I wanted to stay, I wanted it hardly! For at least two years I was
> struggling with my steward activity and although I know that I am
> important to other stewards, I have problem to make one fucking
> steward action for months. And that wasn't about my free time. I have
> it enough. That was about my motivation.
>
> I was trying to find a way to motivate myself to participate in the
> movement. Alone or in cooperation with other Wikimedians, I started
> some not yet published projects. I thought that I could raise my
> motivation if I leave issues related to the chapters and I left
> Chapters committee. But it didn't help.
>
> I was on Amsterdam Hackathon and talking with Erik about one more
> important Wikimedia issue: thousands of languages which are waiting
> for their editions of Wikimedia projects. He was encouraging; for the
> first time I got clearly positive response. But it wasn't enough.
> Instead of enthusiastically working on the project, I just didn't have
> enough motivation to do anything.
>
> I thought that becoming a Board member could raise my motivation. At
> the beginning, I was actually very enthusiastic. But last two weeks I
> spent much more time in being worried about the possibility to be
> elected than about thinking about how to be elected.
>
> For a number of times I was thinking to quit, but this time I had
> appropriate personal trigger and finally got courage to admit myself
> that there is nothing which would change my motivation.
>
> == Wikimedia impact on me ==
>
> I've just realized that if I am writing this kind of email, I should
> say something about Wikimedia impact on me.
>
> When I first edited Wikipedia I was less than a month older than 30.
> This November I will be 40. The whole decade of my life was under the
> strong influence of Wikimedia movement. I spent intellectually
> formative years inside of Wikimedia and it changed me a lot, probably
> not comparable to anything else.
>
> And I could write a book about how Wikipedia and Wikimedia influenced me.
>
> == Unfinished projects ==
>
> This is important. I am leaving some things unfinished and both of the
> projects are very important.
>
> * First, languages. There are more than 6000 languages and there are
> less than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. It is likely that all of
> 3000 languages with more than 10,000 of speakers would survive if they
> have Wikipedia edition in their language. And if you ask why Wikimedia
> movement should do that, it's because there is no other relevant
> international body capable to do that. That makes Wikimedia's position
> unique and with large amount of historical responsibility. I will
> share my research with anyone willing to work on this issue.
>
> * Gamification. Mostly because the lack of my motivation, the project
> Wikichievements didn't start yet. It's actually in the very initial
> phase. Wikimedia Serbia and Wikimedia DC would do that. If you are
> interested in that, please contact Kirill Lokshin from WM DC.
> Gamification and social features are extremely important in making
> Wikimedia movement attractive to young generations again.
>
> == Wikimedia movement *is* important! ==
>
> Wikimedia movement is not just "important", it is the best try of our
> civilization to create a global movement based on completely different
> principles than anything else before. It's the best chance of our
> civilization to survive. And it's up to you to use the chance or not.
> If Wikimedia movement fails, I am sure that the similar chance would
> appear once in the future. But not soon and maybe too late.
>
> Every Wikimedian is a highly important person, likely more important
> than many heads of states. And that importance brings high
> responsibility to keep and develop Wikimedia projects and the
> movement.
>
> * * *
>
> Thanks for all the fish! It is pleasure to know all of you! I won't
> leave wikimeida-l for a couple of days. It's not nice to leave the
> communication immediately. And you have my email; some of you other
> means of communication with me. It will be always a pleasure to me if
> I could help to any of you!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Huib Laurens
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Florence Devouard-3
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
 From time to time, I think of a wikimedian and say to myself "oh, we
have not seen this one much around these days". Further checking, the
person quietly slipped away, few noticed the departure and we had no
opportunity to say "thank you and stay safe and happy in this other
future". It is a bit sad.

Hence, my appreciation for you to take the time to write these words.
Thank you for your presence and work the past years. Best of luck for
the future. Get back in touch if needed.

Flo

On 6/7/13 6:32 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:

> I am leaving the movement. I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
> bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
> the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
> many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
> years.
>
> If you want to skip the story of my motivation, continue with
> "Unfinished projects" section.
>
> == On my motivation ==
>
> In short, I am struggling with the motivation to work inside of the
> movement for almost two years. My participation in Haifa was the
> culmination of my Wikimedia engagement and everything after it was
> going down and down.
>
> I was struggling hard. I didn't want to leave the movement because I
> was feeling responsible for a number of issues. As time went, as I
> wasn't taking any new responsibility, the level of "feeling
> responsible" was lowering and lowering. My last really big
> responsibility was to push the creation of Wikimedia Serbia Office
> last fall. After that I felt that there is no need for me inside of
> the movement.
>
> But I wanted to stay, I wanted it hardly! For at least two years I was
> struggling with my steward activity and although I know that I am
> important to other stewards, I have problem to make one fucking
> steward action for months. And that wasn't about my free time. I have
> it enough. That was about my motivation.
>
> I was trying to find a way to motivate myself to participate in the
> movement. Alone or in cooperation with other Wikimedians, I started
> some not yet published projects. I thought that I could raise my
> motivation if I leave issues related to the chapters and I left
> Chapters committee. But it didn't help.
>
> I was on Amsterdam Hackathon and talking with Erik about one more
> important Wikimedia issue: thousands of languages which are waiting
> for their editions of Wikimedia projects. He was encouraging; for the
> first time I got clearly positive response. But it wasn't enough.
> Instead of enthusiastically working on the project, I just didn't have
> enough motivation to do anything.
>
> I thought that becoming a Board member could raise my motivation. At
> the beginning, I was actually very enthusiastic. But last two weeks I
> spent much more time in being worried about the possibility to be
> elected than about thinking about how to be elected.
>
> For a number of times I was thinking to quit, but this time I had
> appropriate personal trigger and finally got courage to admit myself
> that there is nothing which would change my motivation.
>
> == Wikimedia impact on me ==
>
> I've just realized that if I am writing this kind of email, I should
> say something about Wikimedia impact on me.
>
> When I first edited Wikipedia I was less than a month older than 30.
> This November I will be 40. The whole decade of my life was under the
> strong influence of Wikimedia movement. I spent intellectually
> formative years inside of Wikimedia and it changed me a lot, probably
> not comparable to anything else.
>
> And I could write a book about how Wikipedia and Wikimedia influenced me.
>
> == Unfinished projects ==
>
> This is important. I am leaving some things unfinished and both of the
> projects are very important.
>
> * First, languages. There are more than 6000 languages and there are
> less than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. It is likely that all of
> 3000 languages with more than 10,000 of speakers would survive if they
> have Wikipedia edition in their language. And if you ask why Wikimedia
> movement should do that, it's because there is no other relevant
> international body capable to do that. That makes Wikimedia's position
> unique and with large amount of historical responsibility. I will
> share my research with anyone willing to work on this issue.
>
> * Gamification. Mostly because the lack of my motivation, the project
> Wikichievements didn't start yet. It's actually in the very initial
> phase. Wikimedia Serbia and Wikimedia DC would do that. If you are
> interested in that, please contact Kirill Lokshin from WM DC.
> Gamification and social features are extremely important in making
> Wikimedia movement attractive to young generations again.
>
> == Wikimedia movement *is* important! ==
>
> Wikimedia movement is not just "important", it is the best try of our
> civilization to create a global movement based on completely different
> principles than anything else before. It's the best chance of our
> civilization to survive. And it's up to you to use the chance or not.
> If Wikimedia movement fails, I am sure that the similar chance would
> appear once in the future. But not soon and maybe too late.
>
> Every Wikimedian is a highly important person, likely more important
> than many heads of states. And that importance brings high
> responsibility to keep and develop Wikimedia projects and the
> movement.
>
> * * *
>
> Thanks for all the fish! It is pleasure to know all of you! I won't
> leave wikimeida-l for a couple of days. It's not nice to leave the
> communication immediately. And you have my email; some of you other
> means of communication with me. It will be always a pleasure to me if
> I could help to any of you!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Milos Rancic-2
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> == Unfinished projects ==

Oh, and I knew that there were three unfinished projects, but I forgot
the last one.

Wikimedia movement isn't staying well with formal diplomacy. No of the
Wikimedia organizations participated even in the global events close
to Wikimedia's interests, like, for example, Internet Governance Forum
is.

I connected Ting, Bishakha and Bence a couple of days ago with the
organization DiploFoundation [1], which is willing to create the
connection between the Wikimedia movement and formal diplomacy. The
right person to contact in relation to that issue is a Board member of
Wikimedia Serbia, Sanja Pavlovic <[hidden email]>.

[1] http://www.diplomacy.edu/

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Marc-Andre
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
On 06/07/2013 12:32 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
> bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
> the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
> many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
> years.

« Il est impossible d’aimer une seconde fois ce qu’on a véritablement
cessé d’aimer. »
                                    — François de La Rochefoucauld

Thank you, Milos, for ten years of dedication.  Like all others who
drift away to new interests, you leave behind a legacy that leaves us
all richer than when you joined.

-- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Yuri Astrakhan-2
Milos, lets call it an extended sabbatical instead! You never know when you
might come back, and you are always welcome :)


On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Marc A. Pelletier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 06/07/2013 12:32 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> > I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
> > bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
> > the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
> > many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
> > years.
>
> « Il est impossible d’aimer une seconde fois ce qu’on a véritablement
> cessé d’aimer. »
>                                     — François de La Rochefoucauld
>
> Thank you, Milos, for ten years of dedication.  Like all others who
> drift away to new interests, you leave behind a legacy that leaves us
> all richer than when you joined.
>
> -- Marc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

phoebe ayers-3
On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Yuri Astrakhan <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Milos, lets call it an extended sabbatical instead! You never know when you
> might come back, and you are always welcome :)
>

Indeed :) Some sabbaticals are longer than others, but I don't think a
person ever stops being a Wikimedian, and the door is always open!

Florence said what was on my mind -- thank you for writing this note. I
appreciate it as well, and appreciate having gotten to know you, and your
ideas and passion for projects, over the past years.

Like you, this is my 10-year anniversary in Wikimedia, and I've been
reflecting on it quite a bit. A decade is a long time, and spending it
wrapped up in Wikimedia is without a doubt life-changing. For me, it has
been life-changing largely because of all of the remarkable people I've
gotten to meet -- and that definitely includes a certain hacker from
Belgrade.

To exciting future journeys, my friend!
-- phoebe
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Patricio Lorente
In reply to this post by Yuri Astrakhan-2
Thank you, Milos, for your dedication and commitment for all these
years. I'm sure we will meet somewhere in the near future; maybe you
are leaving the Wikimedia movement but our concerns and wishes will
continue being the same.

I wish you the best, see you around,

                                           Patricio

2013/6/7 Yuri Astrakhan <[hidden email]>:

> Milos, lets call it an extended sabbatical instead! You never know when you
> might come back, and you are always welcome :)
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Marc A. Pelletier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 06/07/2013 12:32 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
>> > I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
>> > bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
>> > the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
>> > many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
>> > years.
>>
>> « Il est impossible d’aimer une seconde fois ce qu’on a véritablement
>> cessé d’aimer. »
>>                                     — François de La Rochefoucauld
>>
>> Thank you, Milos, for ten years of dedication.  Like all others who
>> drift away to new interests, you leave behind a legacy that leaves us
>> all richer than when you joined.
>>
>> -- Marc
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>>
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--
Patricio Lorente
Blog: http://www.patriciolorente.com.ar
Identi.ca // Twitter: @patriciolorente

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Craig Franklin
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
Milos,

Thanks for these words and I am sorry to see you leave.  I think everyone
agrees that the entire Wikimedia movement owes you a debt of gratitude for
a decade of great work.  Hopefully after some time away you'll miss us and
be back, but if not, whatever group you decide to involve yourself with
next will be very fortunate indeed!

Regards,
Craig Franklin


On 8 June 2013 02:32, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am leaving the movement. I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
> bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
> the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
> many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
> years.
>
> If you want to skip the story of my motivation, continue with
> "Unfinished projects" section.
>
> == On my motivation ==
>
> In short, I am struggling with the motivation to work inside of the
> movement for almost two years. My participation in Haifa was the
> culmination of my Wikimedia engagement and everything after it was
> going down and down.
>
> I was struggling hard. I didn't want to leave the movement because I
> was feeling responsible for a number of issues. As time went, as I
> wasn't taking any new responsibility, the level of "feeling
> responsible" was lowering and lowering. My last really big
> responsibility was to push the creation of Wikimedia Serbia Office
> last fall. After that I felt that there is no need for me inside of
> the movement.
>
> But I wanted to stay, I wanted it hardly! For at least two years I was
> struggling with my steward activity and although I know that I am
> important to other stewards, I have problem to make one fucking
> steward action for months. And that wasn't about my free time. I have
> it enough. That was about my motivation.
>
> I was trying to find a way to motivate myself to participate in the
> movement. Alone or in cooperation with other Wikimedians, I started
> some not yet published projects. I thought that I could raise my
> motivation if I leave issues related to the chapters and I left
> Chapters committee. But it didn't help.
>
> I was on Amsterdam Hackathon and talking with Erik about one more
> important Wikimedia issue: thousands of languages which are waiting
> for their editions of Wikimedia projects. He was encouraging; for the
> first time I got clearly positive response. But it wasn't enough.
> Instead of enthusiastically working on the project, I just didn't have
> enough motivation to do anything.
>
> I thought that becoming a Board member could raise my motivation. At
> the beginning, I was actually very enthusiastic. But last two weeks I
> spent much more time in being worried about the possibility to be
> elected than about thinking about how to be elected.
>
> For a number of times I was thinking to quit, but this time I had
> appropriate personal trigger and finally got courage to admit myself
> that there is nothing which would change my motivation.
>
> == Wikimedia impact on me ==
>
> I've just realized that if I am writing this kind of email, I should
> say something about Wikimedia impact on me.
>
> When I first edited Wikipedia I was less than a month older than 30.
> This November I will be 40. The whole decade of my life was under the
> strong influence of Wikimedia movement. I spent intellectually
> formative years inside of Wikimedia and it changed me a lot, probably
> not comparable to anything else.
>
> And I could write a book about how Wikipedia and Wikimedia influenced me.
>
> == Unfinished projects ==
>
> This is important. I am leaving some things unfinished and both of the
> projects are very important.
>
> * First, languages. There are more than 6000 languages and there are
> less than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. It is likely that all of
> 3000 languages with more than 10,000 of speakers would survive if they
> have Wikipedia edition in their language. And if you ask why Wikimedia
> movement should do that, it's because there is no other relevant
> international body capable to do that. That makes Wikimedia's position
> unique and with large amount of historical responsibility. I will
> share my research with anyone willing to work on this issue.
>
> * Gamification. Mostly because the lack of my motivation, the project
> Wikichievements didn't start yet. It's actually in the very initial
> phase. Wikimedia Serbia and Wikimedia DC would do that. If you are
> interested in that, please contact Kirill Lokshin from WM DC.
> Gamification and social features are extremely important in making
> Wikimedia movement attractive to young generations again.
>
> == Wikimedia movement *is* important! ==
>
> Wikimedia movement is not just "important", it is the best try of our
> civilization to create a global movement based on completely different
> principles than anything else before. It's the best chance of our
> civilization to survive. And it's up to you to use the chance or not.
> If Wikimedia movement fails, I am sure that the similar chance would
> appear once in the future. But not soon and maybe too late.
>
> Every Wikimedian is a highly important person, likely more important
> than many heads of states. And that importance brings high
> responsibility to keep and develop Wikimedia projects and the
> movement.
>
> * * *
>
> Thanks for all the fish! It is pleasure to know all of you! I won't
> leave wikimeida-l for a couple of days. It's not nice to leave the
> communication immediately. And you have my email; some of you other
> means of communication with me. It will be always a pleasure to me if
> I could help to any of you!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

metasj
Milos!  How I will miss your honest reflections and monologues.  I am
most sorry to read this; and hope you will not be a stranger to the
wikis, or the many other paths of freeing and sharing knowledge.

Thank you and thank you for your efforts and insights, and the many
remarkable people who you personally introduced to the projects.
I hope you do write that book one day.

Sam.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Craig Franklin
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Milos,
>
> Thanks for these words and I am sorry to see you leave.  I think everyone
> agrees that the entire Wikimedia movement owes you a debt of gratitude for
> a decade of great work.  Hopefully after some time away you'll miss us and
> be back, but if not, whatever group you decide to involve yourself with
> next will be very fortunate indeed!
>
> Regards,
> Craig Franklin
>
>
> On 8 June 2013 02:32, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I am leaving the movement. I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
>> bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
>> the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
>> many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
>> years.
>>
>> If you want to skip the story of my motivation, continue with
>> "Unfinished projects" section.
>>
>> == On my motivation ==
>>
>> In short, I am struggling with the motivation to work inside of the
>> movement for almost two years. My participation in Haifa was the
>> culmination of my Wikimedia engagement and everything after it was
>> going down and down.
>>
>> I was struggling hard. I didn't want to leave the movement because I
>> was feeling responsible for a number of issues. As time went, as I
>> wasn't taking any new responsibility, the level of "feeling
>> responsible" was lowering and lowering. My last really big
>> responsibility was to push the creation of Wikimedia Serbia Office
>> last fall. After that I felt that there is no need for me inside of
>> the movement.
>>
>> But I wanted to stay, I wanted it hardly! For at least two years I was
>> struggling with my steward activity and although I know that I am
>> important to other stewards, I have problem to make one fucking
>> steward action for months. And that wasn't about my free time. I have
>> it enough. That was about my motivation.
>>
>> I was trying to find a way to motivate myself to participate in the
>> movement. Alone or in cooperation with other Wikimedians, I started
>> some not yet published projects. I thought that I could raise my
>> motivation if I leave issues related to the chapters and I left
>> Chapters committee. But it didn't help.
>>
>> I was on Amsterdam Hackathon and talking with Erik about one more
>> important Wikimedia issue: thousands of languages which are waiting
>> for their editions of Wikimedia projects. He was encouraging; for the
>> first time I got clearly positive response. But it wasn't enough.
>> Instead of enthusiastically working on the project, I just didn't have
>> enough motivation to do anything.
>>
>> I thought that becoming a Board member could raise my motivation. At
>> the beginning, I was actually very enthusiastic. But last two weeks I
>> spent much more time in being worried about the possibility to be
>> elected than about thinking about how to be elected.
>>
>> For a number of times I was thinking to quit, but this time I had
>> appropriate personal trigger and finally got courage to admit myself
>> that there is nothing which would change my motivation.
>>
>> == Wikimedia impact on me ==
>>
>> I've just realized that if I am writing this kind of email, I should
>> say something about Wikimedia impact on me.
>>
>> When I first edited Wikipedia I was less than a month older than 30.
>> This November I will be 40. The whole decade of my life was under the
>> strong influence of Wikimedia movement. I spent intellectually
>> formative years inside of Wikimedia and it changed me a lot, probably
>> not comparable to anything else.
>>
>> And I could write a book about how Wikipedia and Wikimedia influenced me.
>>
>> == Unfinished projects ==
>>
>> This is important. I am leaving some things unfinished and both of the
>> projects are very important.
>>
>> * First, languages. There are more than 6000 languages and there are
>> less than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. It is likely that all of
>> 3000 languages with more than 10,000 of speakers would survive if they
>> have Wikipedia edition in their language. And if you ask why Wikimedia
>> movement should do that, it's because there is no other relevant
>> international body capable to do that. That makes Wikimedia's position
>> unique and with large amount of historical responsibility. I will
>> share my research with anyone willing to work on this issue.
>>
>> * Gamification. Mostly because the lack of my motivation, the project
>> Wikichievements didn't start yet. It's actually in the very initial
>> phase. Wikimedia Serbia and Wikimedia DC would do that. If you are
>> interested in that, please contact Kirill Lokshin from WM DC.
>> Gamification and social features are extremely important in making
>> Wikimedia movement attractive to young generations again.
>>
>> == Wikimedia movement *is* important! ==
>>
>> Wikimedia movement is not just "important", it is the best try of our
>> civilization to create a global movement based on completely different
>> principles than anything else before. It's the best chance of our
>> civilization to survive. And it's up to you to use the chance or not.
>> If Wikimedia movement fails, I am sure that the similar chance would
>> appear once in the future. But not soon and maybe too late.
>>
>> Every Wikimedian is a highly important person, likely more important
>> than many heads of states. And that importance brings high
>> responsibility to keep and develop Wikimedia projects and the
>> movement.
>>
>> * * *
>>
>> Thanks for all the fish! It is pleasure to know all of you! I won't
>> leave wikimeida-l for a couple of days. It's not nice to leave the
>> communication immediately. And you have my email; some of you other
>> means of communication with me. It will be always a pleasure to me if
>> I could help to any of you!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l



--
Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Daniel Mietchen
In reply to this post by Yuri Astrakhan-2
On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:32 PM, Yuri Astrakhan
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Milos, lets call it an extended sabbatical instead! You never know when you
> might come back, and you are always welcome :)
I'd echo that and am looking forward to crossing paths again.

Daniel

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Erik Moeller-4
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
Thanks for everything, Milos. It's been a pleasure and I won't be at
all surprised to run into you again, if not in Wikimedia then in other
free culture circles. There are lots of unfinished projects indeed --
for me, seeing the movement tackle increasingly hard and complex
challenges successfully has been hugely motivating. I hope that if no
sooner, in a few years you'll check in on where things are and find
things so transformatively different to be re-energized to participate
again. :)

Erik

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Bishakha Datta
Dear Milos,

No! But understand. Also now understand why you withdrew your Board
candidacy.

Thank you for writing so honestly. It touched a chord in me (having gone
through similar cycles in other worlds).

One of my earliest memories of the wikimedia movement is having a smoky
chat with you in wikimania Gdansk about everything from the politics of
language to the films of Emir Kusturica. You made me feel at home. :)

I hope our paths will continue to cross.

Best
Bishakha



On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks for everything, Milos. It's been a pleasure and I won't be at
> all surprised to run into you again, if not in Wikimedia then in other
> free culture circles. There are lots of unfinished projects indeed --
> for me, seeing the movement tackle increasingly hard and complex
> challenges successfully has been hugely motivating. I hope that if no
> sooner, in a few years you'll check in on where things are and find
> things so transformatively different to be re-energized to participate
> again. :)
>
> Erik
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Manuel Schneider-3
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
Am 07.06.2013 19:31, schrieb Milos Rancic:

> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> == Unfinished projects ==
>
> Oh, and I knew that there were three unfinished projects, but I forgot
> the last one.
>
> Wikimedia movement isn't staying well with formal diplomacy. No of the
> Wikimedia organizations participated even in the global events close
> to Wikimedia's interests, like, for example, Internet Governance Forum
> is.

I can at least say that Wikimedia CH and Wikimedia Österreich (Austria)
are member of ICANN At-Large and as such will be present at the EuroDIG
in Lisbon next week (where we will also have the EURALO General Assembly).

/Manuel
--
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Manuel Schneider-3
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
Hi Milos,

thank you is the least we can say at this point. We can be happy to be
such a big movement, with so many people like you who further our vision
and goals. Some fluctuation is natural and it is totally natural that
after serving some time in our community to move on to new and other
priorities in live. You have already done much more than most of those
benefiting from your work and in fact ten years are a great part of your
life-time.
Thank you, all the best for your future and I am convinced that one
always meets twice in live...
Even if you leave you know where and who we are. You are always welcome
back, be it only a request for help or collaboration in any other
project of your future.


/Manuel

--
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Marco Chiesa
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am leaving the movement. I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
> bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
> the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
> many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
> years.
>
>
>
It's a pity to hear that Millosh is taking a long WikiBreak. Wikimedia will
be more boring now.
Thanks for all you've given, I wish you all the best

Marco (Cruccone)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

Milos Rancic-2
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
Thanks to all of you! It really matters to know that I will be welcome if I
back and it matters that people who matters to me think that I made an
impact to them and to the movement.

I was unprepared on Amir's mail and I reacted on it emotionally. After that
I realized which kind of emails I could get :)

While reading your emails, I got once more drive to stay. However, that
didn't solve my motivation problem and there is no sense to stay without it
solved.

I am not going to find another movement. When you felt the best one,
everything else doesn't have a lot of sense. Besides that, I would have the
same kind of lack of motivation, or probably worse one.

The problem with my motivation is exclusively my personal issue. Events in
the movement influenced that, but the main portion is related to my inner
issues and I am now quite confident what the reason is, which corresponds
with the second part of 2011.

There is another thing produced by your answers. Since this morning I am
able to imagine myself back, which I wasn't able for months. I feel freed
and able to think that I need a period of time off to be capable to back.

I was thinking yesterday that I need serious reconsideration of my inner
drives, that I need different life to fix my problems. Now I think that I
even have the cure. So, will be back sooner than I was thinking. I suppose
that it will be about months rather than years. (And I feel now a bit as a
drama queen and attention whore, as nobody would notice even a half of year
without my input.)

I am professionally connected to MediaWiki. Thus, I won't be able to
disappear, even it was about my feelings from yesterday. I am reading news
on Portal:Current events and I am occasionally editing English Wikipedia.

I noted Sara's and Manuel's emails about what they are doing. Please,
connect with others who are doing similar things! Partial efforts are
always much less effective. (Sarah, connect with MF-Warburg, he will
continue my work in relation to mapping languages. Manuel, connect with
Sanja from WM RS.)

I am subscribed to so many public Wikimedia lists, that it would require
considerable effort to unsubscribe from all of them. Fortunatelly, I am
using a separate account for those lists. I will not delete but forget it
for the time I will need to remotivate myself.

And to repeat: I will always be happy to help to any of you. Feel free to
contact me.
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